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The REAL Reason Britain is Freaking Out About Scottish Independence
David Cameron and the British media have been freaking out about the potential Scottish independence.
They've blathered on about "history", "common defense" and other red herrings.
But it's really all about oil ...
Specifically, if Scotland becomes independent, it gets to keep 90% of the revenues from its huge oil reserves.
The New York Times reports:
Scottish nationalists have long argued that being governed from London has deprived their country of its fair share of the wealth from Britain’s oil and natural gas fields, which mostly lie in North Sea waters off their shores.
“It’s Scotland’s oil” was the rallying cry in the 1970s that helped raise the profile of the Scottish Nationalist Party, which now leads the country and is pushing for a vote to secede in the referendum on Thursday. Alex Salmond, the politician leading the separatist movement, has pointed to North Sea energy as the treasure that would help finance an independent Scotland — ensuring that the country could continue the generous public spending, including free university tuition, that he is promising voters.
Al Jazeera notes:
Massive oil reserves in the North Sea are at the heart of the Scottish independence debate. Many are questioning whether the reserves are just for Scotland or if the rest of the United Kingodm should continue to benefit from their profits.
NBC writes:
The ‘Yes’ campaign … says Scots should have total control of their own affairs and that revenue from Scotland’s offshore oil fields would sustain the country’s economy.
In addition, as Max Keiser explained:
(1) The UK can now borrow cheaply using the giant Scottish oil reserves as collateral
(2) If Scotland leaves, the collateral (oil reserves) is no longer available
(3) So the cost of borrowing money for Britain skyrockets
Scotland’s North Sea oil reserves are slowing running out, and so oil won’t be such a valuable resource forever. But for now, it is still invaluable (especially as collateral for British borrowing) … and the key to Britain’s panic over potential Scottish independence.
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The "English" did not conquer the Scots? Perhaps I should have said Normans.
I'm sure Welsh are just as stunned by this news as I am ;-)
Sure, if you ignore and forget the previous 500 years.
Wait, are you suggesting that the Scots should be voting on whether or not to secede from Normandy?
nmewn, you hijacked the thread about oil in Scotland to make such a straight attack to democracy?
Democracy alone has been tried only once: by ancient Athens. and the all-powerful legislating body was taken by lot out of the demos (the People)
what we have in the Western world is a different ideal: the democratic Republic, which is representative democracy tempered by constitutional restraints
the main difference in most countries following this ideal is that minorities are protected by constitutional provisions "from the tyranny of the majority"
as such, it's an ideal, mind you. yet to make an example, in Germany the constitution may be changed by the same body that makes laws, yet it needs a two-thirds majority
what you might want to attack is the corruption of the setup, best seen by elected lawmakers voting on things they did not even read or comprehend
"you hijacked the thread about oil in Scotland to make such a straight attack to democracy?"
No.
ZerOhead: "A nation whose natural resources primarily benefits it's citizens is against everything that democracy today stands for..."
I was asserting that a democracy is probably the worst form of governance an individual (by definition a minority) can have regarding his or her rights and I don't need a treatise on ancient Greece to prove it. I proved it by pointing to the "majority" of embeciles cheering on a direct attack of the individual. The idiot majority should be demanding less, not moar and the corrupt in black robes bowed down before all. They didn't stand between the individual and the mob did they? So this obviously can't be any semblance of a republic.
"The more laws, the less justice." - Cicero
Perhaps when they come for your property (and your mineral rights) you'll understand.
Demos-cracy=mob rule
Ask the only black dude at the KKK rally how democracy is working out for him.
a problem mitigated by a constitution
Democracy (ostensibly) protects the masses from the potential tyranny of the individual, and a constitution (ostensibly) protects the individual from the tyranny of the mob.
Its win win! Neat, hunh?
Extremist fundamentalism and absolutist ideologies of any stripe never function very well for long in the real world; I would suggest that you should try reasoning outside of that echochambermaiden paradigm
Seeing as how "conscious being" wants to psychoanalyze people, this is interesting:
"Democracy (ostensibly) protects the masses from the potential tyranny of the individual, and a constitution (ostensibly) protects the individual from the tyranny of the mob."
Tyranny is only a "potential" from an individual (but not a potential from a constitution abused) and a democracy counteracts a tyrant? And if the tyrant(s) addict these "very fair minded democratic people" to the largesse he/they have stolen from others (minus the states carrying charges...lol), its all good then, right?
Ostensibly ;-)
Manic depression sounds like a bitch.
Was that directed at me or Ghordius or just an out of place general statement?
If me, I addressed oil first that Ghordius went off on: "If a majority decided tomorrow that private property could be confiscated by the state for re-distribution to "the citizens for the good of all" (mineral rights & everything) that would be "a democracy"...wouldn't it?"
If Ghordius, he expressed an ideal, of what an informed, committed public might achieve. But thats not the case is it? Mine was also an attack on idiots...and traitors.
Believe it or not, some people are able to speak on multiple levels and be completely understood, drawing parallel and intersecting lines in example, that sometimes a dullard can't comprehend.
Tired of me saying frrrreeee! shit yet? ;-)
Classic cry of the useful idiot, you must be "mentally defective".
Yes, we must all hail the irreproachable Grand Poobah: Buffalo buffalo ow woo woo!
(Drenched in irony, that's the first two rules of ZH's Ungulate Club-followed by "Might makes Right" and "The Divine Right of Kings" as rules #3 and 4)
You can't always get what you want, but you usually get what you deserve.
You can't always get what you want, but you usually get what the majority of voters, i.e. low-information voters, deserve.
funny
Hell, the Stranglers devoted an entire album to it!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rattus_Norvegicus_%28album%29
"I begged and borrowed, sometimes I admit I even stole, but the worst crime that I ever did was play some rocknroll; but the money's no good, just get a grip on yourself..."
PS
Thank you both for keeping this site worth visiting by challenging mammon's echochambermaidens
"Christ he told his mother
Christ he told her not to bother
Cos he's alright in the city
Cos he's high above the ground
He's just hanging around (hanging around)"
yeah, "the air in here is pretty thin; I think I'll go outside."
Maybe Europe will get its very own Venezuala!
Europe already has a Greece.
At least is will be their own. That is what matters.
Well, if they vote for independence, we have our scapegoats. Those evil Scots. Fuck the City of London!
£550/yr for every man women and child... decreasing by 10% every year... great.
Reserves are mostly depleted already. Still producing 1MM barrels per day but for how long?
http://www.euanmearns.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/UK_oil_production.png
Last year the entire UK production was 915k bpd. Scotland's share was 820k. This year its likely to be 741k. Depleting almost as fast as a shale well.
The Majors are selling and moving out of town (which are the guys in the know) yet occasionally you see an article like this that says there may be 24 billion barrels left off the UK continental shelf. Dosen't add up unless it's a 'tight' oil situation where the cost to extract will soon become prohibative...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gauravsharma/2014/07/21/north-sea-oil-gas-no...
I suspect that within a few years of independence, the true reality of the financial situation will kick in and Scotland will turn itself into an "international banking center" to increase revenue with all the joy that Iceland had with that.
Yup and Scotland is going to be hard pressed to compete for a couple of reasons including English-speaking workforce isn't a differentiator in the region and Ireland is already a neighboring low-corporate tax region.
Scotland can be a viable standalone country with its own currency but the Brits will extract their pound of flesh first & the Scots will have to deal with a pretty scaled-back set of benefits.
"Scots will have to deal with a pretty scaled-back set of benefits."
Define "pretty"
The City would certainly never stand for that.
You never know... they may be first in line to jump in.
don`t forget that most of the uk`s submarine bases are in Scotland,except for sub based nukes on our east coast!
Scotland is England's Crimea since it has good naval ports.
If you like icebergs.
The Crimea has better weather though.
When the banksters leave Scotland for England, the IQ's of both countries will go up...
Scotland has a very long and rich financial and bankstering history, maybe longer than London. Scotland was in the far east 100s of years ago. London was big after big bang...
Scottish nobles have always been Englands whores. Add that to a sizable free shit army and I dunno, but it don't look too good. Can't be any worse than with jolly old England though, might as well give it a try.
See note above: when the oil revenue runs out, they'll be welcomed back with open arms.
nah it's the haggis they don't want to lose.
It's all about the collateral that they need in Scotland for all their loans in Britain. Without it they will have those loans called.
It used to always be about the gold/silver etc. untill people stopped caring that their currency was worthless and its value eroded by inflation. Now it's always about oil. Always. This article could have been a lot shorter.
Yep. Don't follow the money...follow the oil.
Aye, good stuff that haggis ... I wash it down with a cheap single malt (they send the good stuff abroad because it commands top dollar/euro/pound/ruble/yuan). Who needs all that oil after all.
BTW, have you noticed the results from the big cities won't be available unitl 5 am UK time on Friday morn? This has all the hallmarks of a Mayor Daley "How many votes do you need?" type of election. I'd be very surprised to see the Ayes have it.
"Massive oil reserves in the North Sea are at the heart of the Scottish independence debate."
LOL!
Massive oil reserves?!? There may be some oil there, but you can't get it. All the cheap oil is gone!! How much oil is there? Enough to heat the Queen's homes for a month, maybe!
Hubbard and hundreds of learned academics cleared this up decades ago. Turn your cars off now, it's over!!
Did you clear this article with Gail the actuary??
It's a little early for Aprils Fools!!
/s
Last I read said there were 8 billion barrels still there. That's about a 90 year supply pumping 250k barrels a day. Doesn't sound like it's about to run out to me...
Flakmeister!
Flakmeister!!
Flakmeister!!!
What a twerp. Who let 15 year olds on here?
/s
Thanks for playing.
Glasgow should be the sister city to Donetsk.
Edinburgh should be the sister city to Slovansk.
London should be the sister city to Kiev.