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More Than Just Gas: Is This Natural Resource The Reason For The Ukraine Civil War?
Earlier today, we got a definitive confirmation that when Obama was talking about "costs" when jawboning on the ongoing Ukraine civil war, he envisioned not only Germany, and thus Europe, both of which are teetering on the edge of a triple-dip recession due to Russian sanctions, but Ukraine itself. The reason: the Ukraine economy appears to have ground to a halt following an overnight report that the war-torn country's industrial output plummeted 21.4% Y/Y in August, above the 18% estimate, and some 12.7% on a monthly basis. As the chart below shows, this was the biggest drop in industrial production since the global crisis of 2009 and followed a 12% fall year-on-year in July.
As the FT further added, according to an EBRD forecast earlier today, the Ukrainian economy will contract 9% this year, a far greater contraction than assumed in the IMF's bailout (odd how that always happens). Accordingly, this "makes sustainability of Kiev's government debts much more doubtful, and has sparked concerns that the country will eventually be forced to default and restructure."
As skepticism grows that Ukraine will be the next Greece, only without the backstop safety net of the EUR currency, bondholders are starting to get skeptical, and overnight the yield on Ukraine bonds due April 2023 slid to 10.61%, the highest in 4 months on rising fears of a default.
And while the collapse, in either the economy or the bonds, were not surprising and were predicted here and many other places, what did seem out of place was the following observation by Reuters:
The statistics office said the main industries of Ukraine's Donetsk region, one of the areas where the war is most intense, had suffered, with coal extraction down almost 60 percent and steel production down by 30 percent.
In other words, while the most important commodity for Europe is gas, whose supply Russia largely controls on the margin, for Ukraine the one commodity, located deep within the perimeter of the raging civil war, and which it desperately needs to regain access to to stop its economic collapse, is the following (courtesy of Stratfor):
Which begs the question: are the massive stores of coal in the Donetsk region the main reason why Russia continues to support a civil war in just that region, a war which with every passing day means the Ukraine bankruptcy, and inevitable regime change, is also one day closer?
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No.
first reason
FOOD, FOOD, FOOD, FOOD, FOOD
no, not that either.
the only thing worth fighting for over there are the UKRAINIAN WOMEN !!!!!
not only the coal, but all of it's heavy manufacturing is in the east. This dates back to Soviet era planning. The west is mostly farm land.
I wish the Russians would just take it all already.
Take the good parts of Ukraine. Leave Chernobyl to the EU -- and the EU should be happy about it because, after all, for them if its just about spreading democracy, then it shouldn't be that big of a deal.
"spreading democracy" is what Bush Junior was preaching, if I remember correctly. in fact, here it is
"[P]olitically, this enlargement was a leap for our Union, a leap that renewed its core
meaning. It reminded all European citizens of what our Union, as a political project, is
about. That at heart it is about spreading peace, spreading democracy, spreading prosperity.
It was a leap that showed confidence, and openness, and ambition..."
Herman Van Gollum, April 30 2014
that's more than ten years after the Bush Doctrine's instauration. just shows what damage he did, if Gollum parrots it this way. damn spreaders and enlargers
Can the neocon downvoters please just fuck off?
Fox News has the Ukraine-Russia commentary you're looking for....not ZH.
You can overlap the areas where the US wants to spread democracy, with the areas that are energy rich. They are the same.
Ukraine's industrial production and related coal consumption has been declining for years - nobody is fighting for coal.
Ukraine industrial production has been dropping for so long that they're borrowing money to export their cheap electricity west to neighboring countries. Unfortunately, it's cheap because they run outdated and undermaintained (but heavily subsidized) nuclear power plants. Chernobyl was only a warm-up exercise for future Ukrainian nuclear plant disasters.
http://bankwatch.org/bwmail/52/eu-nuclear-grab-looms-large-ukraine
http://www.ebrd.com/saf/search.html;jsessionid=469737315DBE37BC460D408E5...
But...
You said....
You mean that the Russians aren't just there for humanitarian reasons...?
The folks in West Virginia have been waiting for you to give them this news!
lol owned
also
lol @ "European Citizen"
HvR (or whomever utters such nonsense) has apparently failed to read the Maastricht's Preamble.
Spreading Democracy? The spreading of Ebola is less dangerous than the Democracy the US spreads
I'm confused. Wasn't Gollum more concerned about regaining "My Precious?"
That plane flew the coup long ago! :>D
spreading democracy just another way of saying that the PTB will put their own puppets in charge . It has nothing to do with democracy but it has to do with complete control .
Another possibility is that Putin is providing a distraction/cover for China to do something that the East would be much more committed to stopping if they weren't so concerned about a small corner of the Ukraine.
It seems a bit odd that everytime the newsflow dies down on this story Putin seems to do something to reignite it.
This is an underrated post. We know Red China's territorial ambitions are large and growing. With the trainwreck that is US foreign policy (Preezy plus Lurch = disaster) plus the global QE-induced economic high that is heading inevitably for a crack-esque crash, China is gonna need to grab some lebensraum.
If proxies of China are behind the highly unusual and excessively large recent open interest in COMEX silver, then the war in the Ukraine might one day be seen as a distraction that accelerated the collapse of the petrodollar, if the observations in this article are correct. Not saying I'm convinced, but stranger things have happened.
http://blog.milesfranklin.com/kill-switch
Stackers I believe the East has the best farming land too as well as the coal and iron ore deposits and steel and engineering industries. Perhaps a native Ukrainian or Russian can shed light on this.
Well I am not Russian but I have studied Black Earth Farming, a swedish Incorporated Company operating on the other side of hte boarder in Russia.
Ukraine has Chernozium, that is black earth very rich naturally in phosphates. The issue is that Ukraine towards the mid part has more rain than the eastern part. Once you go too much east you have a bit of winter kill for wheat and you have also a bit of dryness. Yields can be improved but will hardly get to US yields in terms of tonnage and unlikely to reach the tonnage you have in French region Beauce. Beauce has huge sediment deposits, a mild weather and good rains and nice dry summers. That is why for Centuries France had 4-5 times the population of the UK...
I would take a farm over a coal mine anyday. But that's just me.
Problem is, that is on an individual basis. When you start factoring in millions of people and billions of dollars, coal wins (from the perspective of an oligarch, a politician who is blowing an oligarch or the poltiican who IS an oligarch).
Simple plan of the sociopaths...choke the economy, starve the people...people revolt. Put in new puppet...rinse and repeat when necessary.
Whats easier to control, 100,000 square miles of farmland, or a 1,000 square mile mining concession.
The US and EU are not the only ones who can play economic warfare.
BD&U
I already got one of those, what else they got?
Ha! I had one of those for 6 years. Some of the hottest women in the world are from Ukraine. Sitting at any of the outdoor pubs on Khreshchatyk street was like watching a run-way show. All skirts legs and heels ;)
If you don't pay one way you pay another...
Until they hit the wall, at about age 24.778.
Mine is over 40, and still the hottest woman I know.
Unicorn?
Mine is 44, still 6' & beautiful, and I could go on and on about our awesome children.
Who really wants a femen in one's kitchen preparing meals with a chainsaw ..
I agree.
Re: worth fighting for -UKRAINIAN WOMEN !!!
I logged in and broke my vow to stop posting here to vote this up. I went to a birthday party on Sunday for the daughter of a US-Ukrainian couple, with my Ukrainian (well, eastern so Russian) wife and 4 kids. There were ~7 other similiar couples there. It was like a 1950's family paradise and I basked in the gorgeous women and their gorgeous children / loving families.
Coal, steel and food are what the Kaiser needed, when his cousin the Tsar was defeated, so Ukraine was cobbled together to supply them.
How much is different now?
Send cookies!
Close.
Biofuel, biofuel, biofuel, biofuel to cut the gas with to extend the limited supplies further than they would last not watered down. Think of it like fuel inflation using unsound energy practices to steal it's purchasing power aka BTU output per gallon/liter etc. Just like the USD and it's decreasing purchasing power while the face value of the FRN $1 remains the same aka 1 gallon/liter of gas remains 1 gallon/liter of gas as it's BTU output gets watered down.
http://www.biofuelsdigest.com/bdigest/tag/ukraine/
http://www.waste-management-world.com/articles/2013/01/germany-to-boost-...
http://10times.com/biofuel
http://www.vua.uniag.sk/sites/default/files/Kaletnik_VUA.pdf
http://www.uabio.org/img/files/docs/position-paper-uabio-8-en.pdf
I can already see this game unfolding of EU technotwats and politicians lip flapping over the winter how there isn't a shortage of petrol to heat homes for example after the Russians turn off the imports meanwhile the average citizen will need to use twice as much petrol since the BTU output was watered down with biofuel as they starve the Ukrainian population to hide the shortage of fuel.
To continue your train of thought, and connect what I said yesterday (5226701) on this topic...
Wood, Corn and Wood Pellets, are Biofuels you can cook with. Wood is the cheapest on a $/BTU basis, and you pay 33% more for Corn or Wood Pellets than wood.
Of the Fossil Fuels: Coal is by FAR the cheapest, Nat Gas is cheaper than wood and far more convenient. For most people (unless you're way out of town), it is the way to heat. Electricity is the Worst for heating, costing 2.2x more than Wood, 2.4x more than NatGas, and a whopping 4.2x more than Coal.
Here is a Table of Relative Cost (Dollars per Million BTU), using Wood as Reference:
HEAT SOURCE COST
Wood $1,000 (Full Chord)
Nat Gas $ 909
Electricity $2,166 (the Worst for heating, even though it's 100% efficient)
Coal (bulk) $ 513 (Short Ton, 2000 lbs. Assumes Anthracite/Black Coal, not filthy Brown Coal or unbearable Lignite)
Coal (50 lb bags) $ 898 (40 bags = 2000 lbs)
Butane $1,500 (lighter fluid)
Propane $1,686 (BBQ fuel)
Kerosene $1,771 (aka Jet Fuel, and used in Kerosone space heaters)
Reference: http://nepacrossroads.com/fuel-comparison-calculator.php
The ideal (heating) stove will burn Coal, Corn, Pellets and Wood. Good luck in finding one - at reasonable prices. For most people, the most practical overall solution is: Light with Electricity, use NatGas for cooking, heating water and heating, and augment winter heating with either a Wood or Coal stove.
If you can afford Solar Panels, hurray for you, as it will cut your energy costs and give you more flexibility and independence, but the Breakeven Time (to recover your Capital investment) is not pretty in most cases. By the same token, a Coal/Pellet/Wood stove costs serious money also ($1000-$4000, depending on type and model), which also needs to be amortized. Each case varies. DYH (do your homework), crunch the numbers. Make www and Excel your BFF.
p.s. I have not done the research yet, but I do recall seeing TV shows, where some Dairy or Pig farmers captured the Methane gas emitted in the barn, and used it to generate heat or electricity. Not cheap in the short run, but really economical in the long run.
Since Methane is FAR worse as a Greenhouse gas than CO2, it would be great if the Gov would subsidize this by 75%, rather than the MIIC* by 100%. Once again, it does not come down to Reason or Common Sense, but to Common Lobbies funding election campaigns of Careerist PloticiansTM.
* MIIC = Military-Industrial Intelligence Complex = the global strong-arm group of the Counterfeit Currency Creators (Fed).
You can reclaim methane from composting. It is called brown fuel IIRC.
Cogeneration is the generic term.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogeneration
Cogeneration or combined heat and power (CHP) is the use of a heat engine[1] or power station to simultaneously generate electricity and useful heat. Trigeneration or combined cooling, heat and power (CCHP) refers to the simultaneous generation of electricity and useful heating and cooling from the combustion of a fuel or a solar heat collector. A plant producing electricity, heat and cold is called a trigeneration[2] or polygeneration plant.
Cogeneration is a thermodynamically efficient use of fuel. In separate production of electricity, some energy must be discarded as waste heat, but in cogeneration this thermal energy is put to use.
...
Bitcoin or cryptocurrency electric space heaters would work on this principle of warming your space through the creation of money to be used later on. Think of it like smelting coins in your living room.
...
Here is a more specific example pertaining to composting and reclaiming the methane and heat it generates as the materials breakdown.
http://permaculturenews.org/2011/12/15/the-jean-pain-way/
As far as coal but Russia has plenty of coal and without checking any hard numbers my guess is Ukraine has hardly enough coal for it to be an issue in this game and besides coal would be used primarily by EU energy companies to fuel their electricity generation, not cooking or heating.
As far as the other biofuels you missed the big one here which is sugar beets for bioethanol.
The other big one is wood pellets for cooking/heating.
The only way eletricity becomes cost effective for heating after burning the coal to run the power plants is the following way.
You make electric space heaters that mine crypto-currency.
If you are a smart Pollack come winter time you'll set up a mining rig PC/Linux machine(s) since the video cards throw off a massive amount of heat while mining and find the right coin that at least breaks even on the electricity cost to mine it and you've got a warm apartment as long as the electricity stays on that costs you monthly nothing out of pocket except for setting up that mining computer(s). If the electric companies are smart they will set up self financing electric space heaters that pay them directly as they are run using crypto-currency miners either existing coins or develop their own to be traded on the open market like powercoin for example. Stuff like Bitcoin maybe the difference between a few Pollacks living through the winter or freezing to death....
AFAIK Donbas (Don Basin) coal is of the cox making type and cox is used in steel production which eplains the steel industry in the same region. Not the only place but Donbas coal is highly rated here in Bulgaria for its high calorific value and relatively low ash. Village houses here are heated mainly with wood and coal during winter. Either directly or with water jacket stoves and hot water circulation.
I am a mega fan boy of the commanders and PM in NovoRussia. They have guts and character. Totally differenct then the criminals and liars in kiev and washington DC.
Strelkov, Zakharchenko (PM of Donetsk), Motorola, Mozgovoi. and others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VJLESKvBU4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOrXi3gp7mc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsL9G0MN6EY
Oh and if you have a kid in the US military or the Europeans or Poles want to send an army or the Ukie conscripts want to keep fighting? This is what they are facing. This Grad MLRS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKozhTPE2X0
The Ukraine, hopefully, cannot field an army because the men and boys of the eastern Ukriane know they are being SCREWED over by the criminal liars in Kiev. These kids do not want any part of it. Too many men and kids have died. Sent to their deaths by the criminal oligarch scum in Kiev.
They have been abandoning equipment to NovoRussia. The enemy of the Ukrainian people is in Kiev, london and washington DC.
Those guys are awesome! Find a person of character as high a principle, of that man in the first video anywhere inside of the United States, that is in power or has a say in anything! I dont know if we have too many guys like that left, most died in WW2 or have been dying....geeze...
I think there is videos with at least 3 of them talking how they did not want to hurt the conscripts, allowed them to surrender then clothed and fed them. They interviewed these kids and they talked about how Kiev lied to them. How they have tried to avoid being conscripted by Kiev.
Kiev, London and Washington have no honor. F***** satanists in those cities.
Observation: Isn't it amazing, how time and again (throughout the millenia) we see very, very capable military leaders emerge from civilian uprisings and revolts?
Conclusion: Military academies are (for the most part) Circle-Jerks for conformist, statist guys who never stopped playing Cowboys & Indians.
p.s. to my 14:48 posting:
When the people in the Military-Intelligence Complex finally grow a brain, balls and principles that support the Constitution and Bill of Rights – which these MFers swore to protect – and when they arrest the Criminals in DC, the WH and in Langley, then and only then will they get my respect and admiration. Until such time, they get only what they’ve earned so far: my Contempt and Disgust.
Fuck the "Support Our Troops". How about "Support the Constitution"?
I see A FEW GOOD MEN fighting for their homes, their land and their freedom. Why does this feel so familiar?
They are fighting against Aggressors, who are funded by Banksters and Gangsters, seeking to expand the tax-base of a dying Empire. The USSA = Latter-Day Roman Empire, in its last "days".
I look forward to the End, to the Reset, not only because all kinds of Peoples the world over will be liberated from these Careerist Sociopaths, Crooks and Murderers, but also because the same Freedom and a New Era will begin in the US. An era when USSA hopefully becomes USA again, when we've taken care of the Wall St scum and their henchmen in DC (all of them charged with Grand Treason), and the Constitution and Bill of Rights are once again observed.
It's going to be a very cold winter
FOOD, FOOD, FOOD, FOOD, FOOD
No worries. The Siberian Tundra and Permafrost is some of the World's best arable land.
/sarc
They just do not get it, ekm1... Sooner or later they will awaken to the fact that arable land is the most important commodity, followed by that of Oil, Coal, Nat Gas, then Gold.
Russia NEEDS ALL OF UKRAINE for survival.
They do not want to read the truth as it exposes Russia's weakness.
And all of those downarrows that you have received, as well as I have received, will NOT CHANGE THAT IMPORTANT AND VITAL TRUTH.
Ten years more years of high tech global warming, and Siberia will be the Garden of Eatin' for the next 200 years.
The Chernozem belt with its fertile black soil extents from Serbia all the way to Siberia. Russia therefore has plenty of fertile soil of its own. They just are pretty clueless about large scale agriculture although they are smart enough to ban GMO. And the Siberian Tundra and Permafrost? Climate change will defrost that. A bit of a side effect is that it will release massive amounts of methane into the atmosphere.
:-)))))))))))
Oh gee, another fresh out of Kiev troll school troll with 10 weeks on ZH under his belt 'trying to educate the masses'. But of course you have been following ZH for years before you decided to join 10 weeks ago....You have probably been following ZH since 2005, right? Or did they correct that error at Kiev troll school? Even the Russian trolls are smarter than that one.
:-)))))))
european from mediterranean, canadian
Living in toronto
My condolences.
quite humorous, thank you for the entertainment :-)))
Good sport! At Joe A's troll school we aim to please. Often we miss but sometimes we hit the bull's eye. This shot was however a bit easy, nevertheless funny.
Trying to educate the masses, sir, trying hard
With little success though
I've seen dark loam in the Krasnodar region of Russia 6' deep, a large portion of which is fallow. Russia could triple the ag production in that area if they made it a priority and reformed some institutions/cronyism that may be hindering more rapid expansion. I've seen cabages 30 cm in diameter piled high in markets there. As is the case in many Western countries, young people in Russia don't get excited about such things though.
LOLOLOLOLOL God why do people always forget about potable water? You think you can start catching all the rain or something?
Potable ater will be the most valuable, most sought commodity ever given population growth, climate change, pollution, etc. Do you have any idea how energy intensive it is to clean water? How many chemicals are needed to precipitate out the nasties?
And our water infrastructure is PISS POOR -->http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/drinking-water/
We lose 7 billion gallons of drinkable water A DAY due to pipe leakage and if we had to replace every pipe in America, it would cost us $1 trillion.
Fuck your coal, your GOLD (wtf? really?), oil (gonna be replaced soon anyway). Population centers will move to where the water is. But what if your country doesnt have enough water for its population (looking at you China) what do you think will happen? What if your coutry didnt have gold on the other hand? Hmm, yeah its really so hard to decide whats more important......
A Trillion is pocket printing these days .... divert the your entire war machine and budget to infrastructure projects like replacing every water pipe in the USA ... the world will be a happier place and within a decade you'd have all brand new infrastructure without any change to your already un-payable overall debt levels ?
Go back and read about the Horodomor.....
The Russions are pieces of SHIT!!!!!!
http://www.holodomorct.org/
You mean the Zionist/Marxist Soviet leadership no doubt, mostly from Georgia and the Ukraine.
For the ignorant
Russia is not the same as the Soviet Union.
The Soviet Union was created by the Zionists as a vehicle to take over the planet. It didn't work, so they moved to the United States, like parasites who pick a healthier host... They have not changed their original aims.
Yes. Those evil Bolsheviks, who murdered the czar's family, were from New York City.
Yes, that is the answer.
- Captain New Normal and His Coal Diving Ground Minions
Obama and Al Gore say people ain't allowed to use coal.
And everybody listens to them.
I have gas! Pull my 'Poroshenko'...
We need to give the Ukraine democracy....
Would that be delivered the old fashioned way- at gunpoint? Or the more modern laser-guided bomb method?
Drone.
DBF= Democracy By Force!
Russia's economy is crapping out, just like their ruble. So, Putin pushes conflict as a distraction.
Just like China, Obama, etc. It's an old and effective strategy.
The West's economy is crapping out, just like their dollar. So, Obama pushes conflict as a distraction.
Just like China, Putin, etc. It's an old and effective strategy.
"Your Majesty, we need a Short, Victorious War"
V. Plehve, Russia's Interior Minister to Tsar of All Russias Nicholas II, shortly before the Russian Annexation of Manchuria. see Russo-Japanese_War (1904-1905)
interestingly, it was mostly about a warm-water port for Russia
Well, yes,
But can you find me a minister who ever told his Sovereign, "Highness, we need a long unvictorious war?"
We have whole thinktanks and cabinets full of them!
Easy one: John Kerry
I said "Highness".
I didn't say "Jellyfish".
.
the enitre global economy is crapping out, all fiats are collapsing. this is why there is a global onslaught for securing resources. no one is innocent in this regard, except maybe the Tibetans.
EndGame. Total Complete Full Spectrum World Domination of those Resouces by a select few with control over the many Slaves.
ummmm series question here.....
"Isn't that what we have now?"
If and I mean IF you agree with that question then the question should be "Who will control them AFTER the reset that many here see coming?"
and the next question....
"Is the change better or worse?"
You said it better.
T he tahitians don't seem to be causing too much trouble, either.
Bingo. And it explains Israel, Iraq, ISIS, aL Qaeda (when we use to think about that), and all the Chinese incursions. It also explains the detah rate in Lansing, Michigan. It's all about wanting more shit and not wanting to give anything up or have to wait.
I am no friend of any dictators or big Gov......But it does seem Putin's country is being surrounded...or is everyone missing that?
I'm not...
If we were having this debate about the big bad russian bear moving into poland (instead of NATO knocking on Russia's back door) I might concede the point to the fuckheads ru(i)nning my own country.
As it is, after Iraq, Afghanistan, banker bailouts, domestic spying, torture, ungodly debt levels, offshoring, onshoring, the whole panoply of SHIT involved in the hollowing out of amerika, they have zero cred...none, zip, nada, zilch...bupkiss
What did prez dickWeed say? "Fool me once....duuuuhh... i fergit the rest etc"
Well, constantly bullshit me about everything under the sun and I might begin to think that you're NOTHING but a serial bullshit artist.
Difference is that WE leave, we don't claim any of those places as our "doorstep" or "backyard". We would not still have troops in Europe if it weren't for Russian antics. Many here just hate America out of self loathing or jealousy, small minded socialists all...
So we left Germany, Japan and several other nations after WINNING? And I said nothing about hating America, I Hate all Governments...they will be tied to every problem the World faces...go on, look it up...
"Difference is that WE leave, we don't claim any of those places as our "doorstep" or "backyard". We would not still have troops in Europe if it weren't for Russian antics"
Winston.
Hands down dumbest motherfucking statement I've read on ZH all year.
Only a MIC contractor or bleating congenital moron would say such a thing.
I had to log in just to say: you're a dumb ass
Are you kidding me? You are deluded my friend.
No standing Army outside of Russia can defeat the Russian winter.
Or if they do they cant defeat a Russian made Nuclear Winter that Follows.
So THAT is the underlying reason for Climate Change???
Paging FlakFrau???
/sarc
The sad thing is that you need to use a '/sarc' tag for some readers.
Sadder still the disingenuous use of the '/sarc' tag. Pathetic.
Russian Channel 1 (the Russian Government's news channel) makes a report that references this every day.
Guess what?
The world surrounds you.
That is the consequence of having a border.
As for the assertions of being militarily surrounded... Well, it is funny that the Russian Army's Deputy Commander of Ground forces General-Lieutenant Vladimir Popov did not feel that way in the Summer of 2013 when he and his staff coordinated some of those exercises and inquired about participating in others.
Yes. He went to Grafenwoehr, Germany in July 2013. He observed some exercises. Agreed to host some (that would be US Troops in Russia, invited by the Russians), and asked to participate in some of the very exercises that Lavrov and the propaganda crew now highlight as 'Russia is surrounded! (Oh, my!)"
It's bullshit. It is politicians being politicians, and doing what they do - getting people riled up so they can steal shit from them with reduced protest.
That was then. This is now.
Asshat.
W: If they fool you once, then shame on me? ... uh, them? ... no, uh, you ? Well, ya can't get fooled twice.
The old saw so amusingly butchered by W seems to apply here.
P.S. OT: as I recall, W's mistake was that, because he was addressing others he felt he needed to change the "Fool me once ..." maxim into the second person tense, thinking he had the synaptic agility to do so on the fly. He didn't, thus: EPIC FAIL.
P.P.S. ;-) to the Banana man
Putin's food invasion and peace plan have been duly noted. They were obviously a ruse because war in Ukraine is just great for business.
I don't quite get ya Quin...
what has Putin done?
Was it the "Pussy Riot" thing?
or Russia's gay bashing?
Was it Putin's revelation that he was baptized? Is it because you think he's bullshitting about that?
Did he not give good Olympics?
or was it Putin's moves away from the petrodollar? Has that got YOU pissed off at him as well?
For future reference, most ZHer's don't like it if you insult Russia or Putin. They've rightfully abandoned our corrupt leaders, but for natural human istinct to need authority, they have also glommed onto international leaders such as Putin.
It is a bit funny, disliking Obama (of whom I also dislike), but then having good feelings towards Putin.
Yeah, and they come a runnin' when you're not a fellow idolator.
Automatic Hot Buttons: Putin, 9/11 Truthers and the Joooooozzzzzz.
Putin is hitting a lot of the right buttons:
1. Supporting secessionists
2. Giving the finger to Ukrainian, EU and US oligarchs
3. Ditto Obama, McCain, Reid, Feinstien, Cameron, Hollande, Barroso, Rassmussen, CanIStopNow...
4. Putting painful retaliatory sanctions on the EU and all their powerful elite factions
5. Waging a full on war against the Fed, Treasury, IMF, WB, Visa, etc
6. Ditto the dollar
7. Showing a remarkable ability to ignore the purveyors of political correctness
8 Ditto the queers and their never ending hissy fit
You missed a biggie: Gave sanctuary to Snowden when every other spineless government kowtowed to the US.
@darteaus; you'd probably be happier on the CNN blog; why make yourself unhappy?
It says something about the absolute vacuum of leadership in western countries, more than anything. Putin isn't a nice guy. But he is definitely a leader.
For the weak, even seeing the mention of another other than their overlord throws them into a frenzy.
So was Hitler, go figure...
Yeah?
I am most happy when Congress and the President really do not agree.
When they do agree then they will only pass legislation that FUCKS YOU UP.
I WANT NO LEADERS WHATSOEVER. I am the sovereign in my life.
No Western leadership? Yeah. I will be a happy camper when that happens.
Actually the problem is that there is TOO MUCH LEADERSHIP in the Western Nations.
First we really do not know whom the real leaders are...Obama, Laguarde, Merkel, Holllande, et al, are just the puppets on a string.
Second we are subjected to the dictates of the Shadow leaders and have no legitamite method of removing them from power.
Yeah!
Big Leaders make Big Wars. At least in the "good old days", the Leaders had to have the stones to lead from the front.
Th oligarchs in the Ukraine stealing everything, killing their own people are the same oligarchs destroying America. They hate Putin. This is why people like Putin and he lies a lot less then this scum with their fake ISIS BS and genocide in syria against innocent people.
He's the only one who can host a press conference including disagreeing opinions without a teleprompter. Okay ?
As I stated before, no fan of dictators, wherever they may be, but put yourself in Putin's shoes...it would seem his hand is being forced...How many here would scream bloody murder if Russia was in Mexico or Canada?
Edit: If you don't believe in America's involvement with regime change, I refer you to the Noodleman tape..
(or going back further, any number of meddling the US has done in the past...(The Shah of Iran)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwdsUdh1BZc
+1000
Putin didn't spend $5 billion USD to overthrow a democratically elected government.
Putin did not bomb, strafe and shell the citizens of east Ukraine.
Putin did not advocate the ethnic cleansing of Ukraine, refer to a minority group as "Cockroaches" or "beetles" to be exterminated.
In a country with two primary languages, Putin did not seek to outlaw the language used by those lableled as "cockroaches."
Potin had nothing to do with a restructuring of the armed forces such that self-declared "Nazis" were incorporated into the armed forces as "Punishment battalions" with the targeted purpose of eliminating the "cockroaches."
Putin did not advocate the use of nuclear weapons on his own territory to eliminate the "cockroaches."
Putin had nothing to do with the encroachment of NATO bases and missile "defenses" on the borderes of Russia in violation of an undertaking made to Russia at the time of the collapse of the USSR.
Putin iniitally sought closer economic integration with the EU. He did not seek to FUCK THE EU as it was not in his interest to do so.
Nobody on ZH "loves" Putin. But they do recognize false reporting, propoganda and war mongering (the imposition of economic sanctions constitute an act of war. It was US economic sanctions against Japan that triggered Japanese entry into WWII).
In the spirit of the great fellowship of ZH go fuck yourself you twit.
I've never really taken a cotton to "Sushi", but your comment was spot-on delicious!
reset
" .. natural human istinct to need authority "
Some human, perhaps like yourself, need authority. Others think for themselves.
In the unfolding drama of Obama vs Putin, One comes off looking stupid and very aggressive, the other smart and making all the right moves. You dont have to like Putin the person (whoever you think you know him to be) to admire his ability. Got that ?
America really needs its own version of Putin: Someone with respect for the Constitution, especially all of its amendments. with Ron Paul's approach to government, with Teddy Roosevelt's Square Deal and New Nationalism, with Henry Ford's focus on domestic labor and industry, and with Ronald Reagan's charisma to win over the majority of the American people.
Most Americans wouldn't be able to recognize such a person, should anyone with a composite of these leaders ever appear. And most of those wouldn't like him. We have been trained to equate nationalism with isolationism, an America-centric economic policy with protecionism, manufacturing and hard labor with masculine-oriented society, and the democratic process with majority rule which would leave "minorities" and "elites" out in the cold. All that -we are told- is wrong.
Putin appeals to those who long for the time when "rugged individualism", "frontier spirit" were openly admired and desired among men. And that is why I chose "anachronism" as my nome de plume.
You have no idea what you are talking about, Reset71.
No, its because Putin isn' t assaulting Mexico or Canada, it'sbecause we are assaulting Ukraine.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend is as old as civilization. it's not going away any time soon. It's a measure as to how many of the people have awakened to the fact that their enemy lives in Washington and Langley.
LOL! Yes, because Putin was in American Congress today crying about the chirrin' and begging for weapons like a little bitch, right?!?!
I demand you remove your Han Solo avatar, not because I love Star Wars, but because Indiana Jones just ~hates~ Nazis. Worse than snakes even.
'Freedom & Democracy'... USA!!! USA!!! USA!!!
Is it not a sad state of affairs when one must resort to cynicism against his own country...?
Then go back to your ancestral home...
Ewe first.
Go back to Khazaria...
Aint been to Scotland in 450 years....not sure how thatd work out. So....Native American, since im like 1/3 actual native american? Hmmm......looks like im staying to clean up this fucking mess.....look at what youve done with the PLACE!!! The rivers are fucked! And all these fucking strip malls covering the meadows and forests? You guys are asssholes....get the fuck out!
Signed a Scotsblackfoot Indian.
Wait, so chocolate bonbons are not a natural resource...
Makes sense Putin is after Ukraines resources as well, while it still can be "purchased" cheaply.
It's not about coal or gas, it's about chocolate . I have total clarity on this
Great soil in this region as well, although more processing here. Just saying, but with i-pads so cheap, I guess eating isn't a problem for most folks.
:-)
Chocolate (flavored) i-pads.
Jesus Christ, wake up; it';s not about "natural resources"; it's about putting NATO missiles in Ukraine. Doesn't anybody remember the Cuban Missile Crisis?
reverse that. the missles are there to contain Russia while the West rapes the planet and forces the victims to use our fiat.
Is the world still allowed to use coal?
Some animals are more 'equal' than others.
Solar!! lmao
It's not about energy.
It's about cheap energy.
Germans have plenty of coal.
Absent government obstructionism, why can't there be lots of little Ukrainian and German entrepreneurs moving it to where it is needed?
Food for thought.
the same reason why the US has limited the use of coal and repressed off shore drilling....these resources are in reserve for a time when the world no longer accepts the USD for their energy assets.
http://www.boem.gov/Gulf-of-Mexico-Region-Leasing-Information/