The Scotland Referendum: Who Voted How And Why?

Tyler Durden's picture

The following post-referendum poll from Lord Ashcroft does a good summary of who voted how and why. However, the most telling distinction is the following:

  • Voters aged 16-17: YES: 71%; NO: 29%
  • Voters aged 65+: YES: 27%; NO: 73%

How will last night's vote look like in 5, 10 or 15 years when today's 17 year olds are Scotland's prime demographic?


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nicoacademia's picture

inb4 17 y.os realise indepedence is less about one-uppance than securing economic futures and not vote indepdence...unless they are unemployed through the next 15 years

Escrava Isaura's picture

The Scotland youth are learning the established way:


Don't challenge the corrupted system perpetrated by theirs “Greatest Misinformed Generation".


Haus-Targaryen's picture

So in Scottland grandparents are willing to eat their young -- just like here in the US.  

Glad to know we are not alone.  

GetZeeGold's picture



In the US.....we're putting our younglings in slavery.



Thank goodness they're not smart enough to realize it.

ParkAveFlasher's picture

You!  Yes, You!  Stand still wit' it!

Syrin's picture

Hopefully.   STill, I have no doubt this vote was rigged like none in history aside from the 2012 US presidential election.

Socratic Dog's picture

I suspect you will find the woman's vote derailed independence.  Women always vote for what they are told is "safety".  Whatever the fuck that means.  It's one of those words that means a lot to women, not so much to men.  Manly men, anyway.

Just like women in the US voted for "safety" after 9/11.  Even if that means gutting the constitution and ushering in the police state.

Not a smart move to enfranchise women.  Sealed the fate of the western world.  Can't imagine the muslim world will make the same mistake.  Oh, wait, Indonesis already has.  The world's most populous muslim nation.


NemoDeNovo's picture

As painful are the truths you have just espoused are, they are truths none the less.  Men and women are not equals, we are equal but different.  Here in 'meriKa women got the right to vote without the major concession men have to give up.....The Draft [ie conscription].  Not saying women should not have the right to vote, hell I think people should have to take a 100 question test before being allowed to vote.  And I mean a test that most here at ZH would FAIL today, it is one of the ways we could [possibly] ensure we have good govt, instead of this shitshow we are currently living through.

ghengiskhan's picture

Sealed the fate of the Western World indeed.  They operate with legal and financial impunity and have become a destructive force in business.  Productivity has taken the hit once again.

edotabin's picture

As usual this is all fucked up. Isn't everything nowadays?

While I agree with most of what you say S Dog, I disgaree with the enfranchising portion of your comment.  Trust me, I am no "female studies" type moron either.

Everyone has a viewpoint, an opinion and a "lens" from which they arrive at their conclusions. Ideally, the husband and wife would sit down and discuss this rationally and each would weigh the opinions of the other until some type of concensus was reached.  This, naturally, requires maturity, respect and the ability to think and share in a constructive way. Most of these attributes are no longer easily found and therefore we have ...... absolute horse shit.

Lastly, the fact that women are more passive, pliable, and malleable is no secret to anyone.  I think any clear-thinking woman will openly admit it. The stupid ones are still hell bent of "equality" and think their counterproductive actions are somehow good because they jab men. It is shallow and very self-destructive.

LibertyBear's picture

Question: Do you think the young people voted for independence because they are just young or do you think the milleniam and Z generations will continually vote this way as a lifetime trend?


As a Millenial myself, I see myself always voting for Liberty forever. Sometimes I can't help but see the problems of the world arise from the Boomer generation.

Citium's picture

I am a 30 year old Realtor, so I get a lot of people fleeing liberal states to move to Texas. They want to join our secessionist movement as we wuld be the 14th largest economy on the planet, Only state to have it's own power grid and natural resources out the ass. 


As far as friends, ranging from 20-45, they are ALL libertarian or freedom movement minded. Maybe it's just Texas, but we wont be pushed around and they are going to throw the straw that breaks our back to stand up. Most of our politicans are morons (Gov. Perry, Tons of congressmen, The other senator who is not Ted Cruz etc. etc.  They are the ones accepting this and never, NEVER listen to the people. 

Peak Finance's picture

Blah blah blah

I keep hearing all this talk about tough Texans, however when I go there on business I find that it's a shithole.

You fucking tough talking Texans ALREADY CONCEEDED. You've lost every single city on the southern border, along with San Antonio and Houston, Demographically you will NEVER REGAIN these cities.

The time for tough talk ended a long time ago, there needed to be real action, but there was nothing but bluster and now it's too late for you. 

Zerozen's picture

I've been living here for 7 years and I like it in Texas. It has a lot of good things going for it. I lived in the Northeast for 6 years before that and have no desire to again live anywhere in the stretch of land from the Mississippi to the Atlantic and north of the Mason-Dixon line if I can help it. Too many financial and morally bankrupt cities/governments, too many deluded liberal-collectivist types, too much fucking snow and ice.

The being said, Texas, like the rest of the Southwest, has lost the demographic war, like you said. If it were to become independent, it would last about 3 years before the fast-breeding Mexican majority annexes it back to Mexico. I wouldn't be surprised if English is a minority language down here in 30 years.

Cognitive Dissonance's picture

There is no honor among elderly useless eaters.

I often find myself thinking about old age, something I am rapidly approaching. Not only are the elderly captured by their possessions, but by their possessed thinking. Time and time again I have found when talking to the elderly that the one thing above all else that disturbs them greatly is 'change' they personally consider detrimental.Combine this with an entitlement mentality (if for no other reason than because they are elderly) and you have rigid thinking and fixed points of view.

It seems the mind is just as prone to arthritis as the joints when we age.

Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

Tyler... tis a silly proposition. Everyones a radical when they're 18. few remain so by the time their kids are finishing high school.

mores the pity, im the freak

GetZeeGold's picture



Everyones a radical when they're 18.


So what is holding Obama back?

surfsup's picture

ah the lingering power of social engineering, er : schooling ...  

When you're 16 - 17 yrs old, I "influence" your mind... 

When you're of age after decades of engieering I "own" your mind...  

Freedom is always a first person proposition and never requires validation in the outer ...  

Names on flags change - names on bank notes change - freedom is always a real time choice 



29.5's picture

Welp, video evidence of rigging. This must never see the light in mainstream media.

sodbuster's picture

Did they have a 110% turnout like Philly?

EscapeKey's picture

OH FFS, it was public vote. Anyone could have walked in, checking the ballots.

Furthermore, the ballots were counted multiple times, by different volunteers. And the election was managed by... the Scottish Government. Not Westminster.

Some of this ridiculous nonsense must come to an end. Not everything is a bloody conspiracy.

MedTechEntrepreneur's picture

Ahh Yes..  Just like the good 'ol USSA voting system thanks to Chuck Hagel's electronic voting machine.  You didnt think he became Sec Def because he is a military wiz right?

Meat Hammer's picture

Freedom is always a first person proposition 

This!! Finally, someone who gets it! 

I'm a free man because I say I am! 

If you're going to go vote to be free then you're already fucked in your own mind. 

Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Which is the basis for my personal sovereignty series. But so many people, including many here on ZH, claim an individual can't be sovereign.

Ghordius's picture

wait a moment, cog

first, the referendum was about independence from the UK. which would have left the dependence between the Scottish Citizenship that would have then been the sovereign. Citizenship is about shared sovereignty, or co-sovereignty

second, you can be sovereign. In Europe, we have a splendid example of a full sovereign (and autocrat): the Prince of Monaco

yes, the guy that can call the police (His Police) and tell them to grab his fleeing spouse before she leaves the country and bring her back to him. then he married her

though the Prince of Liechtenstein or the Prince of the Vatican (aka the Pope) are also good examples, though the first allows a parliament to advice him and the second has not the power to appoint his successor

three ingredients for full sovereignty: an armed force, a territory and recognition by most of the other sovereigns. In short, it's a club. the club of "you and whose army?"

Lux Fiat's picture

"Freedom is always a first person proposition and never requires validation in the outer ..."


Beautifully said.  The spouse and I came to this viewpoint later in life - better late than never.  Many a conversation with the kids has centered on what they "learned" in school, and then talking about other perspectives on said "learning".  We don't claim to be right, but posit that there are always multiple ways to view any given event, and that in some cases, words and intentions (or actions) do not align.

WhackoWarner's picture

I think maybe your interpretation/thought process is rigid.  Who exactly gave you the ego to judge?  All you can do is interpret the input.  Is your? interpretation becoming arthritic? Or your fear?  or hubris?  "I often find myself "thinking" about old age...then I write articles that explain the myths according to me to assuage what?


You are a soul wandering. Leave it at that.

Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I think maybe you are confusing judging and observing. For every finger I point at others I point three more back at myself.

I use my opposable thumb for hitchhiking.

dracos_ghost's picture

Are you serious? So people should just accept change because some uninformed little millenial "social" ignat says that everyone should accept change because my trans-gender angry feminism prof said I needed to be part of the movement.

The SNP ran a BS campaign. It amazes me the change in ZH attitude since the SNP would have nationalized everything in the country and effectively turned Scotland into Venezuala overnight. Let's not forget the SNP slogan was "Yes We Can" and brought David Axelrod and Jim Messina in as political consultants -- I seriously doubt the best interest of Scotland was priority. I would think that ZH would applaud the Scots for NOT voting for this kind of "independence". There is nothing but "anti-statist" rhetoric on ZH but isn't Progressivism nothing but absolute statism. Change you don't want to get behind no matter what age group you have been binned in.

As far as your contempt for the elderly -- how about some counterpoint with regards to the yutes. Maybe sometimes looking to your elders for some guidance from everything they have seen during their lifetimes can be a good thing and provide a check to just emotional knee jerk reactions to life from a younger perspective. Change can be good but change for change's sake is not always the best option. It takes some cheese on one's soul to fight back a mob mentality like the Progressive movement. You know, "I have to be social or I'm nobody" attitude of the current generation. Isn't fighting back a mob mentality being "independent".

Bottom line, if the Scots want independence, more power to them. Fight for it -- reject the spoon fed sugar coated nostalgia angles. Don't let the infiltrated University system use the youth as useful idiots to promote a bad change and be told to "accept it". I applaud them for fighting back the Progressive Socialist horde. There is always another day to fight a better fight.

NemoDeNovo's picture

You mean like some guidance from the Boomer Generation?  ROFLMAO, what have they done for 'meriKa, besides sit like hogs at the .gov trough slopping everything up and screwing the kids, grand kids, great grand kids and on and on and on.......

I'd rather take Paul Krugman's wisdom then those selfish pricks 'wisdom'

dracos_ghost's picture

Yeah, OK and the millenials aren't on EBT, SNAP and living off of student loans. It's only the boomers fault. (BTW, I'm not a boomer, I'm in the dead zone between the millenials and Boomers so I have my own beef with the Boomers. Doesn't mean that I don't listen to their experiences. Don't have to agree with it, but experience seems to be held in contempt with the current ME generation.)

CD was the one stating that the elderly should just accept change from the youth. I disagree. An individual should take all viewpoints and make a decision. I'd like to include the millenials but since they fucking know everything, you can't have a discussion.

And the boomers were the youth of the day spouting the same Progressive FSA bullshit(Great Society) as what's going on today. And as you say, how'd that workout for everybody.

malek's picture

Your argumentation has gaping holes in it.

The old farts are against change, any kind of change, and accordingly seem to have been the deciding factor in the Scotland vote too. That is not a case of "take all viewpoints and make a decision" by them, but simple fear of "we don't know exactly how it will be after the proposed change and therefore we're against it" mentality.

Saying "the millenials are just as bad as the boomers" is not a valid excuse, in that universality wrong anyway, and you're ignoring that the boomers grew up pampered with almost unlimited freedoms while the millenials are growing up pampered into becoming debt serfs (almost no freedoms).

NemoDeNovo's picture

TO quote Macho Man below:

Yes, but when posed with a zero sum game, we must decide the culpability of the parties.  In this sense, the people attempting to collect the checks have had much longer to determine it was a ponzi, effectuate political change, and/or take measures to protect themselves.  Further, the economic conditions that gave rise to the system are practically impossible for younger generations to support.  In short, the shape of the economy was also determined, to a large extent, by those seeking to collect the checks.

What culpability does a 20 something have in this system's failure?


Excellent points.


Bitch all you want about younger generation[s], I myself am 42 soon to be 43 and caught in the middle as some have said.  But I think those wil the most time on the board should have the most responsibility, like it or not.

dracos_ghost's picture

Pampered? There were no recessions and hard times before millenials? The 70's, first half of the 80's,90's and 2000's would beg to differ. And EBT, endless student loans for 6th year freshmans aren't being pampered? 24 year presciption pill junkies on Social Security disability benefits aren't being pampered.

This whole boomers screwed everybody party llne is getting old. Yes, it's fucked up and they are culpable, but so am I and so are you. We allow this Progressive insanity to grow and propagate to ridiculous propoprtions. And don't you think primary problems are because of public unions and gubmint spending gone amok over the last 20 years or so? But millenials are taking theirs up front and screwing the generations behind them. Stop doing the self-absolution and the "I'm a victim it's somebody else's fault schtick". Take some culpability as part of the problem.

"Saying "the millenials are just as bad as the boomers" is not a valid excuse, in that universality wrong anyway, and you're ignoring that the boomers grew up pampered with almost unlimited freedoms while the millenials are growing up pampered into becoming debt serfs (almost no freedoms)."

"Almost no freedoms". I don't know if you're serious or just toeing the line. The millenials have by far the most freedoms of any generation even with the disgusting pullbacks of the last 15 years. You're not special in being herded in becoming debt serfs either by the way. It's been happening since 1913 in the United States. And being able to post thoughts globally with high speed internet and 4G smartphones is downright Maoist oppression. And ask an actuarial in a financial shop, all their marketing is geared for the 2020 millenial shift of assets from mommy and daddy boomer to the millenials(Most likely living in their basement on their dime). The whole "pauvre moi" dog don't hunt anymore. And I say the millenials are worse than boomers. They wan't their shit now and when they get old. And the gubmint to pay for it.

And why should old farts change because of some young person said so. Who the hell are the millenials. A little too self-important. Maybe if the young Scots didn't spew the "fuck the old" SNP party line and reached out to the old farts and tried to make them understand, the Scots would be celebrating a "YES" vote.



malek's picture

So now you extend that to "the millenials are just as bad as the boomers, and as bad as the X-ers" by saying "Yes, it's fucked up and they are culpable, but so am I and so are you."
I'm an X-er too. And I refuse to follow any purely relational logic that end with either "It's everybody's fault just the same" or "It's no-one's fault."

The millenials have by far the most freedoms of any generation even with the disgusting pullbacks of the last 15 years.

You're blind or full of shit!
Freedoms need to be meaningful, in other words with the ability to change something, otherwise it's a sham. Millenials have the freedom to sit in the right or left corner of their golden cage, if anything.

Any construed argument along the lines "but if a millenial would see through the 99% lies he is surrounded with, and never take on debt, and search and take many chances to find an employer that doesn't want to only exploit him but gives him a chance to learn and earn (yes, a few do still exist), then he would do fine!"
are just your rationalizing away the millenials plight by picking out the single person miraculously doing all right.

Michigander's picture

I am 63, I am elderly, and I refuse to be a useless eater. I own my own company and I will be useful till the day I die or I will choose not to live. I tire of reading the stories of poor Joe in Detriot getting his pension cut that he's been on SINCE 1982!!! Give me a fucking break. A social security check will never EVER soil my hands, regardless of what I have paid in. 

yrbmegr's picture

Useful according to whom?

Oldwood's picture

Of what use are any of us? Were you sent here by god to serve and save your fellow man?

Zerozen's picture

Useful in the sense that he provides a product and/or service that has value to other people.

We can assume that it's useful because apparently his business is still in business - people are buying what he's selling.

No need to get all philosophical on his ass.

edotabin's picture

Let alone that he is 63 and probably accomplishes more in a day than they do in a week. Snot-nosed, smartasses are too busy typing crap me thinks.

FeralSerf's picture

In other words, you think there's nothing wrong with negative interest rates that destroy the savings, i.e. pensions, of the elderly (that can no longer get a job) so the younger generation can get autos and iphones for zero down payments?

A "fucking break" is what you'll get! No matter how much you've saved or "paid in" in capital to support yourself in your later infirmity (or useless eaterhood), it will be stolen by those that "need" that shiny new symbol of their "success" at filling out loan documents.

P.S. Fuck you. You deserve to die penniless.

Oldwood's picture

Yes change solves all problems. That and hope. Changing contracts and the meaning of promises just when they are coming due. The obscenity of it all! We don't need no stinking rules

MachoMan's picture

Kind of.  One might argue that hoisting a mandatory retirement system on the backs of the entire populace was an unrealistic and immoral change to our society.  One might also argue that it is immoral for one generation to impose that on another.  In a normal scenario, the party having the obligation to perform (e.g. the financial company handling your retirement) would simply file for bankruptcy when claims exceeded its ability to pay.  However, solutions are much less palatable (and tend to be exacerbated by a larger checkbook) when the government intermeddles.  Whereas in a normal scenario, the private company would be allowed to go forever into the night, the government's bill must be paid by the citizenry...  many of whom have no culpability in creating the situation and, further, have no marginal income to be taxed. 

This is why there is sovereign immunity...  the government (we) cannot be sued for the wrongs of a few, when many citizens have no moral culpability in causing the problem.

It isn't just a simple contract issue.

Oldwood's picture

Nor is it a simple issue of those who have paid and become dependent upon these lies to be perceived as "useless eaters". Americans are living in an exception time with positives and negatives and we useless eaters have not been sitting on our asses.

MachoMan's picture

Yes, but when posed with a zero sum game, we must decide the culpability of the parties.  In this sense, the people attempting to collect the checks have had much longer to determine it was a ponzi, effectuate political change, and/or take measures to protect themselves.  Further, the economic conditions that gave rise to the system are practically impossible for younger generations to support.  In short, the shape of the economy was also determined, to a large extent, by those seeking to collect the checks.

What culpability does a 20 something have in this system's failure? 

NemoDeNovo's picture

Oh Yeeaaahhhhh!


Spot on.