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The Silver Paradox In One Chart
As gold and silver prices tumble to multi-year lows, an odd thing is happening in the 'paper' precious metals ETF markets. Demand remains high for silver ETF exposure as 'someone' is aggressively unwinding gold ETF positions.. and yet the prices for both are falling rapidly. It appears the retail investor is taking advantage of the lower prices in silver to accumulate additional exposure as Credit Suisse notes, "the perception is that silver will do well, and should outperform gold as the economic recovery strengthens," adding that "belief in silver’s dual properties, as a financial asset and also as an industrial metal, appears to remain strong."
- *SPDR GOLD HOLDINGS TUMBLE 1% TO 776.44 TONS, LOWEST SINCE 2008
ETF demand remains high for silver... as gold ETF demand tumbles...
And yet Silver prices are languishing just as much as gold prices...
- *SILVER FUTURES FALL TO $18.125/OZ, LOWEST SINCE AUG. 2010
Short-term...
And longer-term...
Charts: Bloomberg
Bloomberg suggests,
Buyers of silver are less swayed by price movements, because unlike gold, the metal is a “buy and hold and forget about it kind of investment,” said Kendall, the third-most accurate precious-metals forecaster tracked by Bloomberg in the eight quarters ended June 30.
“It’s not so actively managed by the retail crowd. It’s tucked away as a retirement store of value or hedge against disaster.”
* * *
At the Denver Gold Summit, yesterday, Keith Neumeyer, president and CEO of First Majestic Silver Corp pointed out that after all the talk by the London Bullion Market Association (LBMA) of greater transparency for the new LBMA Silver Price and wider market participation in the auction, nothing much has changed:
“Any time you have a small group of people fixing a price, it’s prone to manipulation,” he said. “There’s no change from how it was done before to the way it’s done now – it’s just a different group of players and now they do it on a computer.”
To that we would add that the “group of players” is still not all that different since only one player has changed. The old Silver Fixing process had three participants, HSBC, ScotiaMocatta and Deutsche Bank. When Deutsche Bank announced in April that it was pulling out of the Silver Fixing, it precipitated the move by the LBMA to create the new Silver Price.
Then, when the new auction was launched on August 15, HSBC and ScotiaMocatta reappeared as participants, bringing Mitsui on board in place of Deutsche Bank. So it’s still the same old usual suspects continuing to fix the silver price each day in London, and there is still little or no transparency about the auction beyond a few netted out buy and sell volume figures.
It remains to be seen when if ever the LBMA Silver Price auction will allow in a wider range of direct participants such as mining companies and refiners.
In the meantime, the retail silver investor, as indicated by the silver ETF flows, appears to be taking advantage of the lower price environment to accumulate additional metal. This is also true in the silver coin and bar market.
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Oh whoopie shits.
Quit talkin' about it and start some real buying, FFS.
Git the mo-mo mo-in', get the shorts a shorter and a squeezin' their glots. Cause when ya got em by the glots their hearts and minds inevitably follow. Make the shorts cover. Get the man on the street long and longer with fear porn deluxe. Scare grandma and grandpa. Make em believe that having gold coins makes their dinkys bigger, muscles larger and stronger, eyesight better and ensures the supply of Ensure. And Depends. Make 'em beg for more ingots, coins, medallions, shards and shavings. Push the product and derivatives. Get everybody to buy as in MOAR.
Get the President's endorsement. "If I had a son, he'd look like a silver ingot."
Yes, Mr. Pink from Bank of Mr. Pink thinks silver should do well too. He has been thinking that for 5 years.....
Maybe I should just have been buying the fucking dip
I am and will keep buying the dips ....never thought they would destroy the paper price like this but I have to say THANKS cabal.......seriously...you fockers are the BEST
Despite that epic smackdown in 2011. Silver today at $18 an ounce is exactly double as it was in Fall of 2008 as it was $9 and ounce, and its triple from exactly a decade ago. In 2004 it was $6 an ounce.
The stack and hold strategy works really well, despite all of this blatant manipulation.
This is not a day to day like stawks. This is a "keep stacking" type of investment.
Chasing monthly, weekly, daily charts measured in FRNs is silly for this type of vehicle.
Same goes with ammo. When SHTF, does it matter that your 5,000 7.62x39 rounds cost you $1,000 FRNs, or it cost you $1,475 FRNs? No, because when FRNs are worthless, you still have 5,000 rounds when your neighbor who "saved money" has none. Now he has both no ammo and no money!
Agreed on the stack and hold strategy for silver and lead. I do wonder, though: what ratio should I hold? 15 parts lead::1 part silver? Or should that be the reverse? I'm around 1:1 right now, and need to know where to put my extra FRN's before the crash...
Silver is on sale, so I would stack. If silver goes back over $20 I would switch to ammo. The ratio is not relevant, you DO need enough ammo to hunt and defend yourself -- but once you have that just rotate your ammo to keep it fresh (and to keep you in practice). You will also need a couple months worth of non-perishable food and some water filters. Anything beyond that moves you into a full blown prepper life style where you believe in a full collapse and plan accordingly.
"silver will do well and outperform gold as the economic recovery strengthens."
WTF is this guy smoking? Silver and gold will both do well when the corrupt, white-collar criminal econo-ponzi unwinds and the US dollar collapses, which is coming. GUARANTEED.
Silver will approach it's rightful ratio to gold, as found in the earth and extracted at 10:1. Silver will be hundreds and hundreds of dollars higher than it is now, guaranteed. Time is on my side, not yours, mr. bankster.
If you think there is a recovery to be had, God help you! In the meantime, stick your head back in the sand.
Wait what, you didn't hear? Inflation is low! The GDP cooker baked up a nice fresh number for this quarter. Everything is rosy O'donnel red.
Shrinkflation: 1 for 2.
I'll let you in on a secret.
The Debt Money Monopoly WILL NOT zero out the money WHEN THEY CONTROL TRILLIONS IN DEBT PAPER AND TRILLIONS MORE IN DEBT RECEIPTS (aka money).
Read that as many times as required in order to make sure you protect yourself from ignorance of that little Rosetta Stone of insight.
Now, how do the Bankster offload their debt paper and their cash onto society for pennies on the dollar?
When the Banksters are out of debt paper and dollars THEN THE RISK OF HYPERINFLATION TO BALANCE THEIR BOOKS IN ONO DECK.
Now, they might try and change the money that demoniates their wealth - if that happens then Weimar or Argentina hyperinflation is on the table.
Comprehend that both the Weimar and Argentina hyperinflation was a DEFLATION from the perspective os the Bankster sitting on the sidelines in dollars.
They steal everything for pennies on the dollar and people can't figure it out.
If the purpose of banks is to steal then what purpose is there when there is nothing left to steal?
We're close to the denomination of wealth returning to it's historical norm ... and no, I'm not talking about the shiny metal ... m2 is the ultimate denominator of wealth.
They'll ask for more fedbucks to keep things rolling, and keep all the foreclosed homes they will own. Their currency will most likely be land. Once the collapse is complete, no need for them to be subtle about the fact that their goal is to come into possession of the whole country.
exactly what I was thinking....what fcuking global economic "recovery" is he referring to?? When you own PM's you effectively own an option on systemic economic collapse (when it happens)...with the advantage of not having any time decay/theta on the option. Unfortunately, up to that point, you effectively own a currency competing against other currencies in that asset space and right now the $ is the fiat de jour. We're most likely heading into a global economic recession and another bout of deflation...that's certainly what global comm prices are saying. In that environment and a strengthening $, PM's will prob price lower in $ terms.....watch gold in $ v carefully around current levels...I am buying here in front of £1190 but if we take out $1190 and build value below I think we're gonna get a serious sell-off and a massive buying opp down around $1050/1000 and that really will be "all-in" levels.
Back in the sand? That's not the place I saw it stuck in.
Before what crash?
"where to put my extra FRN's before the crash..."
Land...they ain't making any more of it. Food and water. Training in useful skills. That's what I'm doing. Use your imagination - have some fun!Except land is easily taxed and seized. Not sure what I'd do if I already had land but for my own current situation, I prefer to rent and retain the ability to go mobile.
You can't bury land and it's never yours since you'll be paying property tax to the government through eternity. Land can be confiscated by the power that be at anytime they want to pay for their bill and extravagant spending. Thus, the secret is not to have too much land a 20 acre farmland or a little less will suffice.
Safe bet for the banks though, who have an endless supply of fedbucks to continue operations, and a nearly limitless supply of people who will be foreclosed on when hyperinflation sets in. They won't have any problem "paying" the taxes, and the government will never take it away from them since the government is just a subsidiary of them at this point.
I suppose it might be wise to have some nearly undeveloped land in some backwoods location where the taxes are low and no repo man will be showing up any time soon.
of interest
http://www.patriciabriggs.com/articles/silver/silverbullet5.shtml
On the other hand, a bunker full of toiletpaper will probably be a better investment to go with those bullets than silver if shit really hits the fan.
Yes indeed but who has a bunker anyway? SHTF will probably last a couple of weeks then some form of society will form because survivors will ally with one another and before you know it the newly formed society will be coming in your doorstep and ransacking your bunker taking your toiletpaper because they need it more than you. As for the silver and gold I'll just bury them to dig up sometime after the SHTF when people start exchanging again for their goods and services. If not I'll just hammer them into spoon so I can eat with silver or gold spoon.
Still of interest
http://www.patriciabriggs.com/articles/silver/silverbullet5.shtml
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Bunker_Hunt
Pardon the ignorance! But WTF is a GLOT?
From...http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=glot
Translate / Talk / Tongue. Glot comes from greek where it means Tongue.
When you have them by the tongues...
dollar strong has the metal bids being pulled ... http://www.hedge.ly ... probably they all go much lower until and or IF US slides back into recession..
" US slides back into recession"
......that's some funny shit y'all just said right there.... when has the US ever not been in recession over the past decade and a half, not sure bubble to bubble transfer can be counted as a real economy for any significant length of time..... hell when it comes right down to it when you take the drug money out of the leveraged equation what is really left??
when i read your post just now I instantly imagined trying to dig a hole in the surface of the ocean - I reckon the only thing left of the US economy is to stop kidding itself, Uncle Sam truly has no frikkin clothes...... they left on the last train to jeckyl island
The legendary Jim Sinclair who called the top to the day in the last gold bull market stated Friday evening that the metals' long term cycles have turned, and they traded into major long term support Friday.
Gold will need to hold above $1200 however, or silver will likely test $16 rather quickly.
Alasdair Macleod was on Metals & Markets Friday, discussing whether the latest slaughter will see silver headed to $15/oz.
Sunday night's Globex open could get bloody.
Let's hope it gets fucking bloody. And Sinclair's about as useful as Harvey Organ as far as market calls go. I think he's got too much vested in the sector to do anything but talk it up. He'd do his CIGAs a favor if he'd acknowledge the possibility of more downside and stop constantly calling 'bottom is in'.
Harvey Organ: Open Interest OI contracts in Silver remain staggeringly high. "Somebody" is going very Long and can't be frightened off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZwSiHBxm0c
nuff said.
Quote: ...as the economic recovery strengthens...
All I can say about this drug induced crap is, smoke'em if you got'em
Buy stocks and bonds or lose everything.
Buy stocks or bonds and lose everything.
FIFY...
a few years ago you can mine an ounce of silver for less 10, its time to shut it down.
well, isn't that special. channeling the church lady from SNL. they managed to close out the week at $17.80. Still think prices will rise for the next two weeks; (silver has a strong 14 day cycle.).
Good article concerning the metals.
"as the economic recovery strengthens"
Credit Suisse had me laughing on that one though.
I have been on a buying spree. Once Silver went back under $20 from the Ukrain spike, I was in there like swimwear. I will continue to buy till it hits mid $17's. After that, I will hold. I think if it hit $17.50 it wont stop till $15. Then I will buy more after the premiums clear up. But I don't think silver is going to $15.
It can go to $12 before breaking it's 10 year uptrend. i won't buy more until then. If it doesn't get there, I'll ride with what I have.
If it gets to those prices I will need to double my stacking space!
At these prices they attract buyers like shit attracts flies; I don't think we'll even see another close below $18.
wait till the SGE gets going.....price discovery will happen.....and nothing they cabal can do about it.....
Goldman Sachs is a member. No price discovery there.
China is the biggest consumer and producer of gold. It created the exchange because they want more say in pricing.
When China doesn't get it's next shipment of gold delivered, or the one after that perhaps, it will have the bourse in place to effect the pricing, and China hasn't been loading up to make the price go down, so no you make no sense.
I expect China to place huge orders in London and New York - and stand for delivery. They will either force defaults or they will take possession of all the physical that is available -- essentially giving them complete control. What is scary is that the total amount of money needed is not that great.
I agree, the amount of money needed to buy up all the gold OR Silver is not that much. Opportunity here for someone to step in and try to control it.
Don't hold your breath about SGE and real price discovery. However, I do notice that the commercials are almost net long both gold and silver on the Comex, I've been watching the ratios for a long time and as of Tuesday they were getting close to net long. I stopped buying the 'Comex delivery failure' bullshit a long time ago, but I COULD see a scenario where the bullion banks get net long and then THEY stand for delivery on the difference. That seems like a winning strategy for the criminal class.
I think the bottom line is the fragility of this whole system is getting to extremely high levels. When trading, one can get lost in the technical analysis and charting and self fulfilling prophecies, but at the EOD, underlying all that are the actual commodities that have scarcity/supply and demand factors. The more they knock the PM prices down, the closer it gets to a paper/phyzz divergence getting exposed for all to see. Their propaganda and odd hours selloffs will run into diminishing marginal returns.
I think your line of thinking is solid as the sharks will feed on themselves, as eventually the only 'high quality' collateral will be learned to be precious metals, and physical in hand, at that.
Well, the whole default concept is subject to so many influences, I can not make any predictions as to how it would or would not, or could or could not unfold, with any degree of accuracy. However, I can state this unequivocally, when you can no longer acquire the phys from all the usually sources for your bars and coins, that will harold the day that all should take notice. I matters not what the price of paper will be. If you can not source the metal, then true price discovery will be found to facilitate the bringing forward of the metal, at what ever price is required. Bank on it.
Astute comment. The physical world matters. There comes a time when charts are useless. Derivatives are useless. Confidence is lost and hard lessons are learned - again.
The backwardation trade in gold futures still has a lot of headroom:
http://quotes.ino.com/charting/index.html?s=NYMEX_GC.Z14_M19.E&t=l&a=0&w=1&v=dmax
Silver, not so much:
http://quotes.ino.com/charting/index.html?s=NYMEX_SI.Z14_N19.E&t=l&a=0&w=1&v=dmax
Target: Silver $2, Gold $90 and once there, they will stay there ... you can't fuck with TPTB.
I see you are a fan also: There is nothing wrong with your television set. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling transmission. If we wish to make it louder, we will bring up the volume. If we wish to make it softer, we will tune it to a whisper. We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical. We can roll the image, make it flutter. We can change the focus to a soft blur or sharpen it to crystal clarity. For the next hour, sit quietly and we will control all that you see and hear. We repeat: there is nothing wrong with your television set. You are about to participate in a great adventure. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the inner mind to – The Outer Limits.
'They' will be very lucky to get gold to $800 or so, let alone even down much from here. It has taken enormous shenanigans and propaganda to get this this far down. But ultimately the market and forces of supply/demand/scarcity win out. Miners go bust then supply dwindles. I don't think for one second stocks and gold are mutually exclusive. Maybe ES to 3k in few years, but gold will be 2k+, meaning it is a nominal not genuine rally. The most important thing is to get out of the dollar long term.
It's amazing how short-sighted people can be with 'investments'. If one is patient and has the means to do so, scaling in from here is a no brainer. If you use USLV or NUGT, you have to be much closer to picking a bottom, and not have the metal do nothing for awhile due to decay in those ETFs that erodes the value.
The debt level gold correlates with very well. Nothing has been fixed with any of that, as these are total ponzis these govt programs, and the only way they can keep the game going is to print to make everyone 'whole'. The price of this will be real things getting bid up as all those nominal checks are being counted on to be cashed for real goods and services. Prices are very high now even without high monetary 'velocity'. Wait until people look to cash out the paper wealth and cash leaves the canyons of Wall Street. It is like musical chairs, but ultimately there are only so many chairs (real things of value).
Target: Silver $2, Gold $90 and once there, they will stay there ... you can't fuck with TPTB.
That would be fucking AWESOME, because the FACE VALUE on Silver Maples is $5. I would almost triple my income if this happens.
Al Huxley, Don't think that just because silver is below 2 bucks that silver maples would sell that low and be an easy trade. That's just silly. Canada also has .5 ounce coins that have a face value of 50 bucks. Guess what, they sell for 55 bucks, not the normal price for a half ounce round. I actually do think that they introduced these coins to protect their citizens from what is coming, inflation or deflation. They also don't know which way this cart will tip to inflation or deflation so by introducing these coins they are promoting silver ownership while at the same time putting cash in the hands of thier citizens. Actually considering that I am thinking about buying some.
Any coin with the queen's face on it belongs to the bitch.
Your silver maples belong to her and if the time is right she will want her money back.
Stack On
........one might be inclined to reform said coin to ..... i dunno maybe a boattail and deliver it to the troll at a time of her chosing... but she'd need to come collect it in person.....and just like Lays betcha can't eat just one........
That is comforting to know that the new currency unit that replaces the US dollar will still use the dollar sign.
Tradition, it would appear.
Look son a FUCKEN retard ------->
We can put them in gas chambers, though.
Stack until it hurts.
That there is simply the best bullion analysis and recommendation available to mankind.
Just keep stacking.
It already hurts. I've been buying since it was under 10 and I just passed into the red, well into red considering premiums. According to my purchasing formula I'm buying 1250 a month, if it drops into the low 17's I will be buying 1500 a month, a few more bucks 2000 a month. It would be nice to get a break get a spike up to 30 bucks so I could drop my purchases down to 400 a month. So yeah its really cutting into my budget to stack, and if it keeps going down its going to start to cut inot my savings. Anyone got some word courage to throw around?
Your stack is your savings, not the current fiat value of your stack. It's savings when there will be next monetary system, not to be liquidated in current dollars, euros, yens etc. If prices go south from here, you can increase your savings at a major discount, that's a good thing, no?
CHX. I define savings as what is kept in the generally accepted medium of exchange. As such the only thing you can have savings in in the US is the US dollar, and maybe bitcoin (don’t get me started). All else is either an investment such as bonds or stocks or a store of value as is gold and silver. Based on my definitions silver is not and cannot be savings, though it could become savings if it became the medium of exchange in our economy.
I see where you're coming from. To me, PMs are real money, money with no counterparty risk, so they are truely "safe" money. That's a quality savings in dollars, treasury bills, etc do not have, since there is considerable counterparty and dillution risk. So yes, i your terms, I'm saving in an investment vehicle that I believe to be tremendously undervalued (Ag + Au). I'm not valuing them in current fiat terms, rather it's a way to transition wealth and some purchusing power throu the coming storm, and into the next system. The fact that it's currently not (anymore) an accepted medium of exchange does not bother me, nor changes my view of it as being my "savings". An ounce of gold will still be worth something in 30 years (given there will still be humans). On the other hand, 1200 buck$ ... ?
Silver is something to save in. It locks in purchasing power better than anything (along with gold). If silver went sub 10, oil would be in the 70s. So have to price things in real terms. And even on a trading/speculative basis, silver will appreciate versus things like stocks as this whole rally is nominal and not genuine growth, so stocks may go up but the Dow/gold ratio will dwindle.
Buy big companies with international exposure that give nice dividends for income stream, get into beaten down commodities (avoid leverage or use it wisely with calls/puts). There are options that are pretty conservative.
I've been stacking since 4 bucks, but since 2008 I only stack Perth Mint Lunar Series 2. Apmex wants my 1/2 ounce tigers back for 45 bucks. Sorry, no sale.
2010 1/2 oz Silver Australian Year of the Tiger Coin (Series II)
http://www.apmex.com/product/54873/2010-1-2-oz-silver-australian-year-of...
Silver For The People
Until there is a shortage of physical, they can knock the price to anything they want.
Maybe when the silver bug throw in the towel the price will bottom. The prices (silver) just keep getting monkey-hammered and the silver bugs think that the up move is just around the corner. De Nile is not just a river.
I own gold myself.
The weak handed "silver bug" has already sold. The strong hands are now accumulating - the deeper the price go, the deeper the maniuplators dig themselves into a hole. 13$ silver ? Bring it on.
Frankly I don't think the current crop of silver bugs are going to throw in the towel if you mean sell. They may run out of money but that isn't what TPTB want or need. I am talking to people who have medium to high net worth and no one is upset and running for the hills, all are buying. I think this was a miscalculation by TPTB, they crushed it last year through manipulation. The unintended consequence is mines thus supply is struggling. Now this latest move is due to a real move in other asset classes. I don't think TPTB intended it, it is going to cause mines to go under and buyers like me to double down. I think there is going to be issues in the physical market. If I'm wrong fine, again I have a large war chest with fresh money coming in. If this market stays irrational I will not go insolvent. WE can break them before they break us.
Silver: Almost time to Backup the Truck
http://www.elliottwavetechnology.com/2014/09/almost-time-to-backup-truck...
Coin dealer was bought out today. He said try in a week. Yep. Digits are for idjits. All the metal haters have their lips on TPTB shaft as they cup the balls and accept their faggotty slavery like a bitch. Go read a fuckin chart. I'm thinkng 20 yrs down the road.....if we last that long.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/commodities/11104055/Super-rich-rush-...
Coin dealers lie through their teeth about avialability when the bought a floating boat load significantly above the current manipulated price.
So this author thinks that he only thing that drives the PM markets are western ETFs. Like 3 billion Asians just don't matter at all. Future reality will be a shock.
68-1 GSR really screams buy AG-!
Same thing happened in the fall of 2010.
Free market forces at work: ".......When I was in China the Shanghai Gold Exchange announced that they will be trading gold internationally, and they intend to set the physical price for gold...." John Ing to King World News, 20Sep14, speaking about his participation in the just ended China Gold Congress.
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2014/9/20_Ru...
China opened that int'l platform (SGE) on Thur. 18Sep14. Not a word in Western biz press. Free markets always defeat government price setting. Always. Give 'em time. And stop listening to Western biz media liars and whores.
Add Koos Jansen's reporting, the foremost China gold watcher we have.
https://www.bullionstar.com/article/chinese%20gold%20demand%20continuous...
The PTB have spoken with the Slamdown of prices on the CME. They do not want the SGE to have any illusions.
What happens when the price is so low as to physical in required quantities isn't available?
Where there are industry desperate for gold and silver but cant get their hands on the physical that they need because nobody is selling it, only paper. If they are getting it they must be buying it off market and at a different price, high enough to win it from strong hands.
Interesting to see what industry is paying for supply of their metals.
no one wants the physical until the nukes starts flying off.
>>>
*SPDR GOLD HOLDINGS TUMBLE 1% TO 776.44 TONS, LOWEST SINCE 2008
<<<
A 1% reduction is not a 'tumble' (or 'collapse', or 'crisis').
>>>
It appears the retail investor is taking advantage of the lower prices in silver to accumulate additional exposure
<<<
If retail is buying anything (gold, silver, oil, houses, whatever), and particularly if buying in size, then the price of whatever it is has further to fall.
If the purchases are in size, a lot further to fall...
Watson
When the crash comes the FED, treasury and ETFs won't have enough gold and silver to pay out. There will be a run and it will be declared illegal to hold again.
Gold and silver were in a major bubble up to 2012. Some people will call this a "bull run", others for what it was: a bubble. The bubble has been deflating in an orderly fashion and now has turned disorderly over the past month in Silver and I suspect gold will follow suit.
Silver will be to $13 over the next few months (or sooner).
Silver went from $4 to $50 in the bubble (blow off top). FMV today? $5 (assuming 20% total inflation in the past 10 years).
And I suppose that milk prices and beef prices and rents and toilet paper prices and cereal prices (etc) are all in similar bubbles??? Or perhaps it's just because they reflect the actual POLICY of the Fed and CANNOT be controlled by printing PAPER cows????
I understand it is difficult to accept that silver/gold were in a major bubble and the resulting blow off top that occured in each ($1900 gold and $50 silver). Silver will be back to $5 and will form its bottom there and Gold will go back to $350 range and form a bottom. I might be off by a dollar or two on Silver and $50 to $100 on Gold, but there is a lot of room on the downside.
Enlighten me on how else I should refer to gold/silver (other than a bubble).
Silver went from $4.50 to $50 to $18 on a metal with an "All In Cost" of $4 per ounce.
Gold went from $250 to $1900 to $1200. A metal with an "All In Cost" of $400 to $800 (depending on mine/miner) per ounce.
The calculation for "All In Cost" will drop further if/when oil plunges further.
yep! no manipulation in the gold and silver markets, and their prices are merely tracking your purported 'bubble fundamentals'.
whatever you say, sparky.
Peak Ponzi and Anti Ponzi
http://winteractionables.com/?p=14770
Gold bear Al’s apoplectic
Convinced he’s narcoleptic
Shorted EMN
instead of NEM
This is no time to be dyslectic
Gold and silver were in a major bubble up to 2012
USD M2 was in a major bubble in 2012...gold tracking money printing of course....M2 onwards and upwards.....gold/silvser naked shortselling to the moon....else if it kept pace with M2 (as it always has) it would be well north of $2,000
Of course...if you dilute the currency ...real assets increase in that currency.....except when you are TPTB and can sell any amount of that asset in invisible (paper form). AND we know that is exactly what has been happening on a global basis by TPTB.... market forces have had little effect on the price except making it harder for TPTB to supress the prices.
GOLD and SILVER are now corks pushed a mile under water.......wonder what happen when they are released...against the USD..??
They are metal they will sink
APMEX
has zero zip nada none
1000 oz good delivery bars for sale
Maybe not, but they have a shitload of silver.
The author lost me at "as the economy recovers".
You folks had better go easy with all assets.
Deflationary spiral first.
Gives them the cover to go zimbabwe later.
Are you precious metal suckers enjoying your thorough reaming yet? :-)
around here that kind of reaming is expected, you'll get yours as well.
More bullion for fewer dollars--I'll take that reaming ANY DAY.
I hear ya, I picked up $800 of Silver Eagles today myself. Hard to believe silver can go lower still, but no doubt it can.
On behalf of all of us, kiss this.
it's pretty obvious this comment was the highlight of your week.
he who gets reamed last, gets reamed the best
Finally, ‘retail’ is going to be right. After all these decades.
John Mellencamp - Pink Houseshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOfkpu6749w
Gold and silver are dropping like a rock. I see bagholders.
When the bubble pops, we'll see a deflationary spiral first as people rush to sell assets to cover margin calls and the unsustainable $630 trillion shadow banking/derivatives market. Only after that house of cards come crashing down will we see gold and silver spike. Expect more pain and "buying opportunities" until then.
this is the capitulation that will trigger the launch from 15-17 area. silver is a dragon. feel the maul
Silver Bitchez!
I know I need to own more physical PM than I do and I plan to go buy my first silver stack real soon now, but it also seems like the historic gold/silver ratio is just going bye-bye, maybe related to the end of silver used for photography. You have to stack too much silver to store a lot of value, that's reserved for gold (and maybe platinum). So the physical demand in China and India are going to remain mostly for gold, and silver is barely an after-thought.
I don't know why the gold ETF shares are sinking, but I think that's the anomaly and the silver ETF shares holding steady is just the normal. Likely the big players are in gold and are turning some tricks or other. And neither has diverged from copper that much, if you draw like a three-year curve. If the dollar keeps strengthening against the xeu then all the PM may make strong new five-year lows, I think that's much of what's going on. After all is said and done people *still* prefer dollars to even gold. Hard to believe but I think that's what the data says.
Good points made from a few posters re will holders/believers of the 2 metals panic and sell into any potential new lows so creating a capitulation of sorts?
My answer - LIKE FUCK THEY WILL.
I like many are a buyer every month, high or low prices, and we all know what lower prices mean - MORE weight can be bought at cheaper prices.
Below $1100 on Gold I'm a buye rof 25% more than I am right now (every month).
Below $1000 I'm a buyer of 50% more
Below $900 I'm a buyer of 100% more
Below $800 I'm a buyer of 200% more.
There you go PTB/TBTF, that's my gameplan for ya. Hope you've all got enough physical to go around because people like me don't accept your paper bullshit.
Buy low sell high...
Everyone knows it, no one does it.
I am buying now, when prices go up Ill be selling. (Except for my stack of Physical, that I don't have and if you tell the Feds I have it... I'll deny it).
Two things about silver that no one talks about:
Silver lost an enormous chunck of its retail market when photography moved from film to digital.
Silver is a by-product of copper mining. This means that silver will be produced willy-nilly when copper mining is profitable, regardless of the going price for silver. Copper has been stagnant after rising rapidly during the US and Chinese building booms. There is, no doubt, a lot of silver laying around that will be worked off only if copper continues to stagnate.
Not paradox... manipulation.
And it makes perfect sense.
How so? Two new precious metal exchanges are scheduled to open up this month in asia, both designed to settle in physical.
This could create a very serious problem for the manipulators sooner or later, with many people betting "sooner rather than later".
And so, the manipulators are desparate to take the shine off the precious metals precisely when these physical exchanges open (this month) in order to dampen enthusiasm for the precious metals.
Of course, asians tend not to be as foolish as gringos... they actually prefer to buy low, not high. And so, this current manipulation strategy may in fact blow up in their faces if the current low prices create a huge surge in buying on these physical exchanges (at bargain prices).
Why the manipulation? To first order, the predators-DBA-western-banksters-and-governments want to keep their precious fiat, fake, fraud, fiction, [massively] fractional-reserve debt-note toilet-paper dollar looking good, strong and viable. And so they have JPM and others manipulate the precious metals lower to take the shine off the obvious competition against their fiat scams. Then secondarily, China and Russia notice this manipulation lets them buy a lot more physical for the same number of fiat pieces of worthless paper, and so they too do what they can to keep the manipulation going.
Until... at some point sooner or later (with many guessing very much sooner rather than later)... China and Russia decide they have so much physical that higher prices for physical are in their best interest. Ehhh... perhaps to offset the lying, bullying and sanctions the western predators-that-be have imposed upon them.
Will the opening of these two "physical exchanges in asia" break the manipulation? Perhaps not immediately, but perhaps in the shortish run (months), and almost certainly in the medium run (1~2 years). Fairly soon, "cannot deliver physical" will occur in the west. At which point, look for gold and silver to increase in price (relative to the fiat dollar) by a factor of 2x, 3x, 5x or possibly even 10x. In the next two years, if not the next few months.
You know why silver is going to be hammered into oblivion ?
Because the greedy mineres are crushing everest-sized mountains every day in south america to produce BILLIONS of ouces of the stuff that the market is not moping up.
Those who claim the production cost of an oz of silver is around $17-19 are INSANE
clearly the miners can keep up this even if the price falls to $5 an ouce because they only have to switch to a lower grade of rice that they pay their pet slave south amercan workers with.