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1 In 4 Americans Want Their State To Secede From The US

Tyler Durden's picture




 

With all eyes firmly fixed on Europe's secessionist movements (most notably Scotland and Catalan), the growing tensions in America took a back seat for a moment. But, as Reuters reports, a recent poll found one-in-four Americans want their state to secede from The US with men more secessionist than women and the Southwest most aggrieved. By the evidence of the poll data as well as these anecdotal conversations, the sense of aggrievement is comprehensive, bipartisan, somewhat incoherent, but deeply felt.  

 

Europe's secessionist movements have garnered all the attention recently...

But in the US, 'aggrievement' is on the rise...

 

As Reuters adds,

Secession got more support from Republicans than Democrats, more from right- than left-leaning independents, more from younger than older people, more from lower- than higher-income brackets, more from high school than college grads. But there was a surprising amount of support in every group and region, especially the Rocky Mountain states, the Southwest and the old Confederacy, but also in places like Illinois and Kansas. And of the people who said they identified with the Tea Party, supporters of secession were actually in the majority, with 53 percent.

 

...

 

By the evidence of the poll data as well as these anecdotal conversations, the sense of aggrievement is comprehensive, bipartisan, somewhat incoherent, but deeply felt.

 

This should be more than disconcerting; it’s a situation that could get dangerous. As the Princeton political scientist Mark Beissinger has shown, separatist movements can take hold around contempt for incumbents and the status quo even when protesters have no ideology in common.

 

The United States hardly seems to be on the verge of fracture, and the small secession movements in a handful of American states today represent a tiny percentage of those polled by Reuters. But any country where 60 million people declare themselves to be sincerely aggrieved — especially one that is fractious by nature — is a country inviting either the sophistry of a demagogue or a serious movement for reform.

*  *  *

As Martin Armstrong warns,

"Civil unrest is coming to America sooner than you think. This will ignite old feelings of discontent across both religion and race in America."

 

...

 

The promises that you save for the future have collapsed into dust as interest rates have been driven lower making savings utterly worthless. There is no such thing as saving and living off your fixed income. The elderly are being driven back into the work force and the whole ideas that a generation believed in are vanishing before their eyes.

 

So it is no longer communists and dictators that are the targets. All governments are now the targets and when the economy turns down after 2015.75, the threat of civilization will be pulled apart by the self-interest of politicians clinging to power to the detriment of the people.

*  *  *

This should be no surprise, as we warned over 2 years ago that rising levels of government debt are a crucial determining factor in chaos and civil unrest...

JPMorgan recently noted this study:

The authors tested to see if results varied with ethnic fragmentation, inflation, penetration of mass media and the quality of government institutions; they did not. Results are also consistent across time, covering interwar and postwar periods.

 

The independent variable that did result in more unrest: higher levels of government debt in the first place.

 

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Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:18 | 5237694 Bangalore Equit...
Bangalore Equity Trader's picture

Listen. Secession takes "EFFORT" and that aint goin to happen in 'merica. "TOO" busy on treadmill.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:21 | 5237716 Arius
Arius's picture

the title should be 3 out 4 are AGAINST!

 

what is wrong with people? dont they see the benefits of being together??? dahhhh

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:25 | 5237729 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

The South will rise again!

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:26 | 5237735 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

Sounds like a porn movie.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:34 | 5237761 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Just give me flyover country....that way I don't have to move.

 

Let the rest of those intellectual freaks do whatever the hell they want.

 

 

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:38 | 5237777 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

Thanks to the 'Great Uniter'!

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:43 | 5237794 Keyser
Keyser's picture

A better idea is to get rid of the totalitarian government and keep the country together... 

 

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:00 | 5237837 Stackers
Stackers's picture

Secession is perfectly legal and the right of any state and it's "people" to do at any time. There is NOTHING in the Constitution that restricts a state from leaving the Union for any reason, and there is a very specific clause that does allow it.

 

10th amendment

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people

 

Texas in particular could easily secede, It is more or less on it's own power grid. Has it's own natural resources and the ability to access and refine them.

 

 

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:01 | 5237849 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Good fucking luck getting the courts to enforce the 10th though.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:17 | 5237888 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

And of the people who said they identified with the Tea Party, supporters of secession were actually in the majority, with 53 percent.

4GW, bitches.  Fucking radicals who actually believe in self-government, are aware and "aggrieved" when they do not live under it, and are willing to try put it (back) into practice.

From the Reuters article:

"But even when the new Constitution made secession illegal..."

Where does it say that, douchebag?

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 16:30 | 5238662 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Texas in particular could easily secede,

Texas doesn't have to secede, they never ceded their territories to the US in the first place... Every installation the Fed has in Texas is leased from the state... We just don't renew the leases and buh bye... 

 


Sat, 09/20/2014 - 17:21 | 5238777 AGuy
AGuy's picture

"Texas doesn't have to secede, they never ceded their territories to the US in the first place"

 

Unfortunately Texas is turning in the Mexico, With the Leftist from CA moving in and the illegal crossing into TX. The Old slogan: "Don't mess with Texas" is now "Texas is a mess!". FWIW: I feel sorry for Texans that got screwed over. That said Barry still got two more years to Frack over the US and he hell bent on Giving TX his worse. TX should have succeeded two years ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 18:06 | 5238884 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Not sure what you're talking about unless its the fruit-cake liberals in Austin like Sheila Jackson Lee... I live in south Texas and I can tell you life has never been better... We're used to illegals down here, who do you think works in the restaurants and cuts our grass? 

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 18:17 | 5238906 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Nobody I know or heard of were polled.

Hell, I bet it's been running over 75% up here for breaking away from the mitten for the last 40 years or so....

And for those who think the 300K people up here wouldn't make it, just see how high steel prices get when the Soo Locks are closed, and the PM mines open up.

I'd rather deal with Canada than D.C., and their beer is better.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 18:58 | 5239007 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Holy shit, check out the results for people who served in the military between 2001 and 2011:

 

Poll of recent military veterans

 

If we get another civil war, I think it might start within the ranks of the military.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 19:05 | 5239031 duo
duo's picture

You'll be trading iron ore for oranges so you don't get scurvy in the winter.  Deer meet will get old after a year or so.

Long dental implants.

Sun, 09/21/2014 - 00:24 | 5239619 sylviasays
sylviasays's picture

 Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto thanked California during his visit to California's state capital of Sacramento for improving the lives of immigrants from his country, including legalizing drivers' licenses for undocumented migrants and making it easier for them to work and start businesses. He called on other states to "evolve" like California so the United States can be more like his home country. 

"This is the other Mexico," Peña Nieto reportedly "said of the United States.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-California/2014/08/26/United-States-o...



Sat, 09/20/2014 - 18:31 | 5238944 August
August's picture

"But even when the new Constitution made secession illegal..."

Where does it say that, douchebag?

Well, we all know that on geologic time-scale, the USA is and will be inconsequential, aside from any residual radioactivity.  That said, you're completely correct re the Constitution being silent on secession/dissolution of the union; however, the Articles of Confederation did specify that the union was perpetual, and top federal legal minds have determined (deemed?) that that portion of the Articles was understood by all to be carried over the subsequent Union.

The USA will end the old fashioned way: through the actions of men with weapons, though at this point we don't know which men.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:17 | 5237900 Laddie
Laddie's picture

"Good fucking luck getting the courts to enforce the 10th though."

Rather unlikely I'd have to say:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/us/politics/building-legacy-obama-resh...
Judges appointed by Dems now hold majority of seats on U.S. Courts of Appeals

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:50 | 5238008 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

It goes far, far beyond red vs blue on this.  The 10th hasn't really been enforced for sometime after the end of the Civil War. 

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 14:45 | 5238334 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

agreed. you always here about the 2nd being the most infringed upon, and lately the 4th with all the no-knock warrants and illegal spying, but, historically, the 10th has gotta be the most violated amendment of them all, by both parties. I consider the govt doing, or making the states and people 'do', anything not specifically allowed by the constitution, to be a violation of the 10th.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 16:23 | 5238641 messymerry
messymerry's picture

The courts are largely seen with contempt these days.  When the insurrection really gets rolling, they will be rendered moot... 

Of the three allegedly co-equal branches of .gov, justice is the most worthy of contempt.  All of my experiences with them have been  bad.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 16:47 | 5238696 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

That varies from state to state and even district to district.  The Rio Rancho muni courts near me are fucking kangaroo courts.  Want to get out of a ticket there?  Go in, argue your case, lose, then appeal it to the District Court.  They're all about getting revenue with the minimum amount of work.  When you appeal it to big-boy court, they don't want to go through the effort most of the time.

 

I won against a bank pro se when they sued me in my local district court.  The Albuquerque metro court is a crap shoot though.  The US District Court here has a chief justice who tends to rule against police state BS, and he's steering the ship, so to speak.  He even ruled that cops who detain somebody for the mere fact that the person was carrying a firearm do NOT have qualified immunity and can be personally sued.  The 9th Circus though?  Yikes!  And the SCOTUS and it's continual war against the 4th Amendment... fuck'em.  I'm quasi-glad over the Heller v DC and Mcdonald v Chicago cases, but I don't think that the SCOTUS went far enough on those.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 21:25 | 5239308 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

That varies from state to state and even district to district.  The Rio Rancho muni courts near me are fucking kangaroo courts.  Want to get out of a ticket there?  Go in, argue your case, lose, then appeal it to the District Court.  They're all about getting revenue with the minimum amount of work.  When you appeal it to big-boy court, they don't want to go through the effort most of the time.

This is universal with municipal courts...  The issue isn't that the prosecutor is scared of going to a trial (that requires more work and rolling over on piddly ass tickets isn't going to get the prosecutor in hot water with his electorate), rather the issue is that the prosecutor doesn't want to poison the municipal court well.  In our legal system, proseuctors have "prosecutorial discretion" to bring (or not bring) a case against a citizen.  It's actually one of the pillars of the system.  The problem is that municipal courts are ruled by judges, without check or balance.  The result is that if the prosecutor crosses the municipal court judge, then he'll have hell to pay...  so, if the defendant appeals to a higher court, then the prosecutor can lay down without pissing off the municipal judge.  If the judge is happy with the prosecutor, then every case that comes before the court is won by the prosecution...  easy gig if you can get it (or sleep at night knowing the bullshit you're pulling).

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 14:41 | 5238320 sleigher
sleigher's picture

The people have to enforce it if the states won't.  Notice the language, "the states respectively or to the people."  Kind of brings us back to the 2nd amendment.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:19 | 5237904 Otto Zitte
Otto Zitte's picture

No problem. Hang all the judges & lawyers for treason.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 13:50 | 5238189 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

 Judges and Lawyers were the first in line for the Guillotine at the start of the French Revolution.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 17:22 | 5238782 AGuy
AGuy's picture

"Judges and Lawyers were the first in line for the Guillotine at the start of the French Revolution."

 

In this case, the US isn't French. Americans are too stupid to see that the gov't is enslaving them.

 

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 18:42 | 5238977 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

Beheading is coming back in one part of the world.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 21:32 | 5239302 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Judges and Lawyers were the first in line for the Guillotine at the start of the French Revolution.

And the american revolution...  busy drafting the founding documents of the country...  and, thankfully, the war was won...

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 18:18 | 5238909 Milestones
Milestones's picture

Were the original 13th Amendment in force and effect( and yes it was ratified in 1809 by the states--I have personally seen that original amendment in a court used book) ALL judges and attorneys would be declared non citizens and could be deported for swearing alligence to the British Crown (BAR stands for British Accreditation Registry)

We will have a Constitutional Convension as per Article 5 of the U.S. Constitution in 2016 (already passed by 43 states)

The political convensions will be shit compared to this. Come armed I think.           Milestones

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:22 | 5237920 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

We have always been divided into 5 territories, it is pretty much a matter of informing them we have split into the five states.

This action, in and of itself, automatically puts Texas as the state with the most senate seats of any state of the union.

This is not provided for in the Constitution. It IS the only reason Texas is a single state. In this scenario, Texas does NOT secede, but in fact is removed from the union, by the union.

Texas joined the union by treaty, only.....

AND WE'VE HAD ENOUGH OF THE FUCKING BULLSHIT.................

 

We make the rules here, and the fucking feds better not forget it.

So, one must ask at this point in time, with history ringing clear, just exactly WHO are the dumb asses again???

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 13:38 | 5238153 exi1ed0ne
exi1ed0ne's picture

Sorry, but we ain't taking Illinois or Michigan in our Great Lakes superstate. Those places can fuck right off.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 18:19 | 5238913 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

I don't want anything to do with Michigan, either....

Time to re-instate the 'Blow Up the Bridge Committee' and be done with them.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 21:40 | 5239327 HK21E
HK21E's picture

Greenie from me and I live in that shitshack known as Illinois.

Actually - if the cesspool on the lake would be walled off (and filled to the top with water) this wouldnt be a bad state.

 

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 18:41 | 5238976 August
August's picture

>>>This action, in and of itself, automatically puts Texas as the state with the most senate seats of any state of the union.

You are forgetting the state of New England, with 14 million residents, 12 US Senators, and 33 electoral votes.  That's a pretty sweet deal.

Sun, 09/21/2014 - 14:35 | 5240718 detached.amusement
detached.amusement's picture

and everyone knows New England is among the most bought off places outside DC

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:56 | 5238037 doctor10
doctor10's picture

with you here. Not exactly sure why this even has to get violent.Its just business. Individuals and states repudiating Federal Debt they had nothing to do with contracting. That's all. Something only a psychopath could get truly violent about.

However Robt. E Lee could tell us all a thing or two about centralized control freak psychopaths....

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 13:28 | 5238128 CrazyCatLady
CrazyCatLady's picture

Uhh sure fat man, guess you forgot about 1861- 1865. Y'know the "war of northern agression"

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 14:52 | 5238359 snodgrass
snodgrass's picture

States already tried that - remember? They got Lincolned and the country lost 600,000 men.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 20:36 | 5239214 Mareka
Mareka's picture

The next great experiment.

Our government has done a remarkable job of dividing the nation.

Finish the job and divide it.   Pick 5 to 25 states and allow them to become idependent entities.

They are free to issue their own currency and have no access to federal programs.

You would have the choice for example to live in Texas, transact your business in NTD (New Texas Dollars), backed by gold or silver.  You would live in a state where no one has access to EBT, SNAP, or receives housing credits.

Pick a tax model that works like in Tennessee, no state income tax & low property taxes.

 

A level playing field for people who are interested in working to build wealth and to improve their station in life.

 

If there were 5 states out of 50 that provided that opportunity I believe they would thrive while the deadbeats would consolodate in the welfare states.

I'll bet you 100 NTD that within 10 years any state that went that route would be an economic powerhouse like Germany is today.

 

 

 

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:39 | 5237974 TheShadowKnows
TheShadowKnows's picture

Which great uniter is that? Lincoln?

Timely article on how secession works here:

http://novorossia.today/publications/world/novorossiya-support/helping-novorossiyans-remember-the-past-886.html

Does anybody really expect today's kleptocrats to wake up one fine morning and say "We really haven't been fair, so let's let the people walk away from our mess this time and start over ..."

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 17:26 | 5238793 Jadr
Jadr's picture

I'm surprised you got so many upvotes with all of the morality police out in full force in the 46 signs of America's decline post.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:30 | 5237732 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

According to CNN, the southwest has 34% in favor of secession, 76% not in favor.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:34 | 5237760 Arius
Arius's picture

what currency are they thinking they are gone have??? the old greenback?  or they have not gotten that far on thinking how this actually takes place?  what about the debts from the US ... how much they are willing to take over?

 

it is easy to say yes but when actually it comes down to numbers ... better be careful!

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:38 | 5237776 Midas
Midas's picture

That is your argument against secession?  The US dollar is just too awesome to leave behind?  And as for taking over a portion of US debt, yeah that would suck, but it is only going to suck more next year, and even more in ten years, etc.  The sooner you leave, the sooner you can start getting better.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:02 | 5237851 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

I'll be happy with barter, gold and silver.  Hell, bring back pure copper coins.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:26 | 5237929 chunga
chunga's picture

Here in Dixie, a lot of people never gave up on the Civil War and never agreed to join up with the yankees.

So the poll isn't that accurate.

 

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 13:33 | 5238139 CrazyCatLady
CrazyCatLady's picture

Exactly, we have simply been biding our time until the rematch

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 21:30 | 5239314 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

If reconstruction would have been handled a bit differently, then there might have actually been a union...  add to the fact that the flyover and former confederate states disproportionately fill the military ranks and manufacturing centers have migrated south...  and you've got yourself a pickle.

There isn't much worse than hearing europeans refer to all americans as "yankees."  I'd like for them to go into a dive bar in the ozarks or appalachians and try that shit.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 13:15 | 5238087 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Zinc is the new copper.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:37 | 5237906 F0ster
F0ster's picture

The Libertarian Party are working to incorporate gold, silver and crypto currencies as alternative local currencies to the vile US Federal Reserve note. IMO we should support this.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 15:01 | 5238389 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

If states were going to have to take a portion of the federal debt with them if they seceed, its only fair if they get a similar percentage of the alleged gold reserves we allegedly have in fort knox. No excuses, Im sure each state has plenty of armored cars they can hire for the job, just drive up there, load up a couple tons at a time, drive back. Unless that gold is gone?

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 16:28 | 5238652 Burticus
Burticus's picture

No, the debt stays with the elephant/jackass sock puppets in the District of Corruption who incurred it and their bankster cartel masters who enabled it.  The collateral, consisting of the tyrants' lives, would be repossessed by their Chink, Nip & Towelhead creditors.

The states would leave in peace, each with its share of any remaining gold and free of the United State_'s debt, another good reason to seceed.  The elites who stole rest of The People's gold would be hunted down like rabid dogs.

http://leagueofthesouth.com/

http://freeflorida.org/

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:40 | 5237784 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

They will have the peso.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:40 | 5237787 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

 

According to CNN

 

Who?

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:47 | 5237807 Bossman1967
Bossman1967's picture

we will use gold silver and barter. debt my ass yall spent it and yall can pay it back. for me I ask nothing from the government except protection. I pay out the ass in taxes. I don't agree with paying people not to work and never will I the disabled and old payed for THIER benefits.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:01 | 5237845 Liberty2012
Liberty2012's picture

"the disabled and old payed for THIER benefits"

How's that? What do you mean?

It sounds like you're contradicting yourself.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:58 | 5237842 Bangalore Equit...
Bangalore Equity Trader's picture

"what about the debts from the US ... how much they are willing to take over?"

Listen, I got a good laugh from that one. I guess it depends on how much Israel is "WILLING" to return.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:06 | 5237866 rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

"what about the debts from the US ... how much they are willing to take over?"

Tell you what, I'll gladly assume the debt that I personally accrued which isn't very much. But that is offset by the money stolen from me in nearly 60 years of immoral direct taxation. And I'll take a lump sum payout of the social security and medicare I've...cough...contributed. 

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:42 | 5237981 tvdog
tvdog's picture

"what about the debts from the US ... how much they are willing to take over?"

How about none? How about every constituent part of the former U.S. tells the bondholders to bugger off?

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:50 | 5238010 TheShadowKnows
TheShadowKnows's picture

"what currency are they thinking they are gone have???"

Some folks are way ahead of you on the answer to that question ...

http://www.publicbankinginstitute.org/

But when it "comes down to numbers" others would rather trust the bankers. Oh yeah.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:53 | 5238018 withglee
withglee's picture

Secession would be the perfect opportunity to install a properly managed medium of exchange.

  • One where inflation is zero all the time everywhere;
  • one where money is always in free supply and signifies trading promises;
  • one where supply and demand for money is always in perfect balance;
  • one where cumulative interest collections exactly equal cumulative defaults ... all the time everwhere.
  • one that has "nothing" to do with capital
  • one that has "no" concern for prices or employment or the economy
  • one that recognizes what money has always been ... a promise to complete a trade.

Zero inflation and zero interest to responsible traders. What's not to love about that.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 14:45 | 5238333 Liberty2012
Liberty2012's picture

If "IT" is "managed", it will become just what we have now.

Also, Trade and Capital are part of the same dynamic.

Don't let the current misuse of terms mix you up. Debt is not Capital.

Capital is based on Assets - Tools, Ideas, Labor - not future promises.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 14:39 | 5238310 Stormtrooper
Stormtrooper's picture

Terminate the
FRN and RESTORE the dollar.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 15:05 | 5238402 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

yes, you are correct, taking over a portion of the debt would suck. However, would you rather take a portion of the 17T it is now, or wait a few years when its 25T? Its only going to keep getting bigger. Thats the thing with debt-based monetary systems, they rely on ever increasing debt or everything comes to a halt.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:07 | 5237867 SilverFish
SilverFish's picture

Apparently, there's one ZH user that either can't add, or just doesn't have a sense of humor.

 

Maybe even both.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:32 | 5237897 Emergency Ward
Emergency Ward's picture

...and as Yogi Berra would say, "The other half are undecided."

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:47 | 5238001 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Given the outcomes in Quebec and Scottish referendum, where the NO side won by a small margin, I'd argue that the YES side will need 75% For Secession, just to get to the 51% "official" results.

Clearly the real issue is not who votes, but who counts the votes.  The process is too prone to rigging, fraud and manipulation -- all by design (as a failsafe insurance policy).

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 13:17 | 5238094 Omen IV
Omen IV's picture

starting at opinion poll of 75% in favor of secession is absolutely necessary - otherwise dont bother - once the powers that be start the FEAR campaign - you will peel off a ton of people

 

What the Confederacy did was to me amazing in retrospect - they not only overcame fear but went to war for their beliefs - incredible group of people and i am not from the south 

 

that level of dedication doesnt exist anymore

 

 

 

 

 

Sun, 09/21/2014 - 07:10 | 5239923 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

stop and look around you, Americans. what I see: chinese, nigerians, mexicans and other central americans, egyptians , north africans, koreans, vietnamese,.and other non white non europeans

That is what our politicians see very clearly.

Think about your polls and vote counts now.

The founders and the european mal contents that made up America up to the 20th century, are now becoming the minority. Those values held by Americans who were mostly from European stock are not held by the above.

That was a plan put in place during the wilson era and with progessive governments sense.

If white europeans freedom seekers want a country that reflects our values the flood of third worlders must stop (will not happen while current crop of crooks in DC are in power)

otherwise prepare to live as the third world does with corrupt police ,judges and central .govs..

Demographics has produced the changes that lead to total control and loss of all freedoms. the new immigrants do not share the vision of the founders, in fact they want America to be much like where they left, sharia law is coming for those who live with ME immigrants in our mid west.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 15:59 | 5238569 fedupwhiteguy
fedupwhiteguy's picture

CNN... another math wiz on site.

Sun, 09/21/2014 - 14:36 | 5240720 detached.amusement
detached.amusement's picture

yeah, just like I saw a scottish one that said No won 58-52%

 

 

wait, that was probably true

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:14 | 5237892 LoneStarHog
LoneStarHog's picture

The topic of the missive is about secession and the factors that CONTRIBUTE to it; not the opposite.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 15:33 | 5238476 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

It's not the benefits of being together; thou featherwit; it's being under the boot of a foreign occupying force based in Washington.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:24 | 5237731 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

Unemployment will fix that. When the remainders of the middle class get pulled down with poor, that will light the fuse. The poor are what they have always been, too lazy to get off their asses to start shit.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:28 | 5237746 DetectiveStern
DetectiveStern's picture

Too much sole of the boot of government/media in our face to start shit.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 15:34 | 5238481 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

T he Watts riots?

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:45 | 5237805 Mr Pink
Mr Pink's picture

Wait....without the Federal government who is going to protect my freedoms?? 

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:54 | 5237828 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Yourself and Mr Colt.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 13:58 | 5238213 paulbain
paulbain's picture

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, Mr. Glock and Ms. Uzi might work, too.  I understand that they make a great couple.

-- Paul D. Bain

PaulBain@PObox.com

 

 

 

 

 

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:22 | 5237917 rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

What about those of us who want to secede from government altogether? 

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 14:13 | 5238245 drendebe10
drendebe10's picture

Sign me up. Scotland had right idea.  Too bad vote cheaters won.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 15:05 | 5238407 yrad
yrad's picture

Must read if you're a Texan

http://www.texnat.org/line-in-the-sand.pdf

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:18 | 5237704 Smegley Wanxalot
Smegley Wanxalot's picture

In my circles, the percentage is 100%, or higher.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:53 | 5237825 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Mine, too- and I mean, like 30-40 people.

May be bigger than folks think!

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:35 | 5237879 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

You should click on the article and go to the more detailed graph.  Only 9% or so "strongly" support it, while the rest are kind of "tend" to support it.  Yet a much larger (37%) "strongly" are against it.  The other thing that appears to be happening is that we are becoming more balkanized.  I guess a lot of people have their heads up their asses, see the corruption and push their heads further up there so that they don't have to see the reality that our country has gone to complete shit.

 

The other things that I would like to see regarding those who would like to secede:  How many of them grow at least some of their own food and how many are gun owners?

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 13:24 | 5238120 boattrash
boattrash's picture

E.V. So, is there any truth in the often stated, "3% that did it first, back in the 1700's"?

If so, the numbers you list are pretty important.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 13:35 | 5238146 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

I think that the numbers will change rapidly at the next financial crisis.  Bail-ins and the eventual theft of retirement accounts will most likely be a bitch-slap to a lot of people.  It's not just about the 3% or whatever, it is also about the logistical support that they receive, which means that you need a decent chunk of the population behind whomever is willing to pick up a rifle and fight.  IIRC, at the start of the American Revolution, that was only about 1/3 of the population, with 1/3 still being loyal and 1/3 not giving a shit.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:18 | 5237706 Newsboy
Newsboy's picture

Will the groceries, water and electricity keep coming?

How's this gonna' work?

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:39 | 5237725 Smegley Wanxalot
Smegley Wanxalot's picture

"fo' an xtruh EBT card anna 'bamafone, I vote fo' wha'evah U sae!"

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:27 | 5237744 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

The UN has the water thing covered. No worries.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:41 | 5237788 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

Everything will be fine, once they are annexed by Mexico.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:46 | 5237999 toady
toady's picture

Your own well, your own garden/livestock, your own solar, wind, and/or hydro.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 13:03 | 5238053 TheShadowKnows
TheShadowKnows's picture

Groceries, water and electrcity are all major underpinnings to our planned dependence. They don't control public services because they love us.  

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:19 | 5237708 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

1 in 4 "residents" or "citizens"? If the former, the South West will never secede as there are new "residents" being added daily thanks to the border.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:24 | 5237730 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

In the southwest, wouldn't there be a desire to form HS - the Hispanic State?

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:30 | 5237750 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

That is where the first secession movement will come from. The globalists have to know this. If the US is the primary instrument of global power, why the drive to break it up?

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:33 | 5237763 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

Just keep in mind the Southwest, as we call it, was formerly called "Mexico", and the people who live today in what we call "Mexico" remember that.  The Southwest could never be independent.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:46 | 5237804 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Yeah, I live in the Southwest.  Going back to Mexico?  Not without one helluva fight.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:26 | 5237930 Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

I believe they call it Atzlan gringo!

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:44 | 5237950 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

They don't have the guns to back it up.  There are also a lot of very old hispanic families who won't want anything to do with Mexico.  Me?  On my mom's side, it was French trappers who came down before we were even part of the US, and on my dad's side, my great grandfather moved to the territory of NM because he had TB.  I have roots here and some of the old hispanic families have even deeper roots.  We all look at what is going on south of the border and say "fuck that shit."  Even some of the (legal) immigrants that I talk to say that they won't go back down to Juarez to visit family because of what's going on down there.  Mexico is a fucking mess.

 

Edit:  Even the Navajos here hate Mexicans.  I don't hate them, I just know that we cannot support them.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 16:25 | 5238647 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

Holder will give them the guns. He has done it before.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 19:38 | 5239103 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

Doesn't mean they know how to use them.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:06 | 5237865 Liberty2012
Liberty2012's picture

The Southwest was always independent.

They renounced Mexico rule. There's no reason they cannot renounce Washington rule.

We the People have the government we allow ourselves to have.

How people agree to live together is the definition of government.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:49 | 5238004 Barnaby
Barnaby's picture

I agree with one slight amplification:

We The Purple trade our complete and total freedom (given by God) for some modicum of safety, security and plentiful Big Macs. That's why we call our law structure Bills. The Bill of Rights is simply an invoice from the government, which outlines the terms and conditions of your surrender.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 14:12 | 5238243 Liberty2012
Liberty2012's picture

Yes, people trade a little of their sovereignty to be in a group. Very few people want to live completely in the wilderness.

It's all a question of how much? And how long does the group continue to be desirable?

Sun, 09/21/2014 - 00:09 | 5239595 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

Texas renounced Mexico rule and subsequently begged Washington to take them in.  Why?   Because they knew they couldn't stop Mexico from invading and taking them over again.  There will be a fight.  The best you could hope for is a long fight.  Enjoy!

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:43 | 5237796 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

Who would pay for the "free shit"?

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:51 | 5237819 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Hmmm. I guess Barry would have to return to his rent boy profession to pay for all that stuff.

I hope he has sucking power.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:19 | 5237710 mofreedom
mofreedom's picture

I hate Old New England.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:22 | 5237719 Hopeless for Change
Hopeless for Change's picture

Obama's America

 

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 19:40 | 5239106 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

Zimbabwe?

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:23 | 5237724 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

Sounds too low. Most Red states can see how bad things are going. With a 7% approval rating of Congress only 25% want out? Scotland tried a simple question - if it ever happens in the US it would require a careful set of promises to the dependent class (maybe even promising them MOAR). Then after you get their votes you can always do a Cameron and start reneging on any promises.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:23 | 5237727 Consuelo
Consuelo's picture

2015.75...?   C'mon man, you know it was 2015.813339...   Can't you at least strive for a little accuracy in your forecasts?  DOW 32,000 in 2015 remember...   Or was that 32,157...?

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:28 | 5237742 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

It refers to time, not quantity.  Quarter 3 of 2015.  Or, 2015q3, or 2015.75

 

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 14:29 | 5238276 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

He had revised this number at least twice since '08. Armstrong is just another doom peddler who makes a nice buck ranting and raving and constantly changing the goal line.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:32 | 5237737 alexcojones
alexcojones's picture

Every man, woman and child are their own state.

You become more or less, or Moral-Less, independent every day, depending on your actions, words, deeds, or willing servitude to the State.

Most here already know that though.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:26 | 5237739 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

Sliced differently, we see in other surveys that only single digit percentage of people in the US are content with the politicians. Thus, there must be a huge overlap of those that said 'no' to secede and who also said they are not content with the politicians.

So, they'll just hang around like a battered and abused spouse *hoping* things get better?

 

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:31 | 5237753 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

Yes, and 1 in 4 Americans think George W. Bush was a good President.  It's the same 25%.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:13 | 5237830 Emergency Ward
Emergency Ward's picture

The 25% that thought god put GWB in the White House.  Then there's the 25% non-secessionist that think god is in the White House.

Then there are the uncounted that don't give a fuck who's in the WH, but realize that whoever it is is likely a devilish, parasitic, violence-prone murderous warmonger.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:31 | 5237754 p00k1e
p00k1e's picture

C'mon now.  This was tried 150 years ago.  Don't be naïve and send Ron Paul money or anything. 

Which one is the Feds and which one is the secessionist.

Don't Be A Menace crazy bitch ghettoblaster

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-mZ8AsvHX4
 

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:35 | 5237770 alexcojones
alexcojones's picture

"When did the US begin to LIE to her citizens as part of official policy? Was it in 1947, the second day after Roswell? Or was it much earlier, perhaps 1912 when the Federal Reserve rose to power and, like termites, began to destroy this archaic wooden structure called America from within? Perhaps the state began to lie in earnest in the faked war with Spain, or the faked war with Mexico, a war protested by Thoreau.

"Or was it long before? Or does the exact date really even matter?

"Truthers know the state lied long before 911, long before Roswell, long before their parents and grandparents were born. States LIE, and thus Truthers must resist them with whatever means they have at hand.

"To be a Truther is to be a man or woman of such a stubborn streak, a cheerful non-conformist in a world of placid conformity, a purist in the very real sense of the word, simply because you like your truths to be self-evident and unadulterated.

"Maybe you were a Truther from the day you were born. Maybe Truth was part of your DNA! Maybe the need for the truth is as intrinsic to you as your need to breathe fresh, pure air, your desire to drink deeply, from the scarcest springs of pure freshwater. Your very real need for the truth made you a TRUTHER long before 911, long before Vietnam, long before history, long before the Dawn of Man. Long before you existed."

Truther Long Before It Was Cool | Strike-The-Root:

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:43 | 5237793 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

PEOPLE lie.  To the extent states are made of people, states also lie.  Human nature.  From the beginning.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 14:01 | 5238223 ArmchairRevolut...
ArmchairRevolutionary's picture

On balance, the average person tends towards honesty; while those who end up in power tend more toward dishonesty. Thus, the state is more dishonest than average human nature.

Sun, 09/21/2014 - 00:13 | 5239607 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

When the chips are down, people lie.  It's easy to be "honest" when it costs nothing.  The average person tends toward honesty when there is no conflict.  When there is a conflict, however, people lie for advantage.  Twas ever thus.

Sun, 09/21/2014 - 14:40 | 5240732 detached.amusement
detached.amusement's picture

Its easy to lie when it costs you nothing, too.

 

Even more lucrative when it does the opposite of cost you

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:54 | 5237817 Liberty2012
Liberty2012's picture

Outstanding ... Thank you!!

Truth is at the beginning of all things .... Discovery is a key purpose of Life

Beautifully said alexcojones

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:56 | 5237836 shuckster
shuckster's picture

Truth is subjective. My truth is better than your truth. If truther means digging up dirt on USG or Corps, that makes you a muckraker. Statists are not inanimate. They are a group of people, albeit faceless, subject to influence as much as you or I. Unity starts when we can identify over arching ideals that we share

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:10 | 5237877 Liberty2012
Liberty2012's picture

"Truth is subjective." Not really.

The Truth you have discovered is subject to your ability to see and define it.

Truth itself is not dependent upon you. It exists whether or not you exist.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:12 | 5237883 Liberty2012
Liberty2012's picture

"Unity starts when we can identify over arching ideals that we share"

True ;)

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 13:08 | 5238074 TheShadowKnows
TheShadowKnows's picture

It was long before ...

 

AntiFederalist Paper No. 1

   GENERAL INTRODUCTION:
   A DANGEROUS PLAN OF BENEFIT ONLY TO THE “ARISTOCRATICK COMBINATION”
   From The Boston Gazette and Country Journal, November 26, 1787.

http://www.anamericanvision.com/freedom_documents/anti_federalist_papers/

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:41 | 5237790 Cautiously Pess...
Cautiously Pessimistic's picture

Maybe this is too simplistic an explanation, but the vote could be divided along the lines of the makers versus the takers?

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:42 | 5237797 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

There are two kinds of people in the world.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:14 | 5237890 WeNeedaRealGovt
WeNeedaRealGovt's picture

But who would the makers sell their shit to?  And would the makers be willing to pay for the roads, schools etc?  Why would a maker work for someone else?  On and on...

Cautiously Piss - you are a GOP/TEA and you voted for "W" which was stupid.  But you still carry the Rand line of thinking.  You probably have a history of being a taker yourself.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:48 | 5238002 p00k1e
p00k1e's picture

Make it even simpler.

Let’s say today we just euthanize anyone who receives a government direct deposit – Social Security, disability, eBT, DMV operator – any form.  Then never speak of the act again.  
 

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:43 | 5237798 craus
craus's picture

When Putin unplugs Russia from the internet will ZH and the Russkie posters go speechless?

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:46 | 5237806 Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

New Bolshevik agents growing here at ZH by the day.

 

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Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:49 | 5237815 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

do you mean zionists or actual communist types?

be specific.

Thanks.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:16 | 5237893 craus
craus's picture

lakecity55

The kind that drink Yodka and sit on their knees and dance, fun types.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:22 | 5237918 Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

Zioqueers. The original commies and the architects of it all.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:17 | 5237899 craus
craus's picture

Infinite QE

Ah I flushed a ZH worker out.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:48 | 5237816 craus
craus's picture

Down arrow for you are a Russkie or ISIS head scavenger.

Same thing ain't it?

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:47 | 5237809 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Fuck Yeah!

"All I have left is DC and maybe part of Massachusets, Reggie."
"I know , baby, but you are still My Man."

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:48 | 5237811 Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

What needs to happen is that ALL television networks need to be forced to carry a one week long series about the truth of the federal reserve system and follow that up with a country wide campaign to terminate it and seek reparations from its owners.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:55 | 5237835 saints51
saints51's picture

That would be great!!!! The only issue I see is the television network share holders are the same share holders of the FED. You would have to use force for a takeover of television networks.

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 11:50 | 5237818 spinone
spinone's picture

Igor Panarin, the russian scientist who correctly predicted the breakup of the USSR in 1976, also predicts the breakup of the USA:  http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/P1-AO116_RUSPRO_NS_20081228191715.gif

 

Sat, 09/20/2014 - 12:17 | 5237898 WeNeedaRealGovt
WeNeedaRealGovt's picture

Spinone - you're proof that this site is a GOP haven, and as we know, GOPers believe anything and are quite stupid.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!