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1 In 4 Americans Want Their State To Secede From The US
With all eyes firmly fixed on Europe's secessionist movements (most notably Scotland and Catalan), the growing tensions in America took a back seat for a moment. But, as Reuters reports, a recent poll found one-in-four Americans want their state to secede from The US with men more secessionist than women and the Southwest most aggrieved. By the evidence of the poll data as well as these anecdotal conversations, the sense of aggrievement is comprehensive, bipartisan, somewhat incoherent, but deeply felt.
Europe's secessionist movements have garnered all the attention recently...
But in the US, 'aggrievement' is on the rise...
Secession got more support from Republicans than Democrats, more from right- than left-leaning independents, more from younger than older people, more from lower- than higher-income brackets, more from high school than college grads. But there was a surprising amount of support in every group and region, especially the Rocky Mountain states, the Southwest and the old Confederacy, but also in places like Illinois and Kansas. And of the people who said they identified with the Tea Party, supporters of secession were actually in the majority, with 53 percent.
...
By the evidence of the poll data as well as these anecdotal conversations, the sense of aggrievement is comprehensive, bipartisan, somewhat incoherent, but deeply felt.
This should be more than disconcerting; it’s a situation that could get dangerous. As the Princeton political scientist Mark Beissinger has shown, separatist movements can take hold around contempt for incumbents and the status quo even when protesters have no ideology in common.
The United States hardly seems to be on the verge of fracture, and the small secession movements in a handful of American states today represent a tiny percentage of those polled by Reuters. But any country where 60 million people declare themselves to be sincerely aggrieved — especially one that is fractious by nature — is a country inviting either the sophistry of a demagogue or a serious movement for reform.
* * *
"Civil unrest is coming to America sooner than you think. This will ignite old feelings of discontent across both religion and race in America."
...
The promises that you save for the future have collapsed into dust as interest rates have been driven lower making savings utterly worthless. There is no such thing as saving and living off your fixed income. The elderly are being driven back into the work force and the whole ideas that a generation believed in are vanishing before their eyes.
So it is no longer communists and dictators that are the targets. All governments are now the targets and when the economy turns down after 2015.75, the threat of civilization will be pulled apart by the self-interest of politicians clinging to power to the detriment of the people.
* * *
This should be no surprise, as we warned over 2 years ago that rising levels of government debt are a crucial determining factor in chaos and civil unrest...
JPMorgan recently noted this study:
The authors tested to see if results varied with ethnic fragmentation, inflation, penetration of mass media and the quality of government institutions; they did not. Results are also consistent across time, covering interwar and postwar periods.
The independent variable that did result in more unrest: higher levels of government debt in the first place.
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Listen. Secession takes "EFFORT" and that aint goin to happen in 'merica. "TOO" busy on treadmill.
the title should be 3 out 4 are AGAINST!
what is wrong with people? dont they see the benefits of being together??? dahhhh
The South will rise again!
Sounds like a porn movie.
Just give me flyover country....that way I don't have to move.
Let the rest of those intellectual freaks do whatever the hell they want.
Thanks to the 'Great Uniter'!
A better idea is to get rid of the totalitarian government and keep the country together...
Secession is perfectly legal and the right of any state and it's "people" to do at any time. There is NOTHING in the Constitution that restricts a state from leaving the Union for any reason, and there is a very specific clause that does allow it.
10th amendment
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people
Texas in particular could easily secede, It is more or less on it's own power grid. Has it's own natural resources and the ability to access and refine them.
Good fucking luck getting the courts to enforce the 10th though.
And of the people who said they identified with the Tea Party, supporters of secession were actually in the majority, with 53 percent.
4GW, bitches. Fucking radicals who actually believe in self-government, are aware and "aggrieved" when they do not live under it, and are willing to try put it (back) into practice.
From the Reuters article:
"But even when the new Constitution made secession illegal..."
Where does it say that, douchebag?
Texas in particular could easily secede,
Texas doesn't have to secede, they never ceded their territories to the US in the first place... Every installation the Fed has in Texas is leased from the state... We just don't renew the leases and buh bye...
"Texas doesn't have to secede, they never ceded their territories to the US in the first place"
Unfortunately Texas is turning in the Mexico, With the Leftist from CA moving in and the illegal crossing into TX. The Old slogan: "Don't mess with Texas" is now "Texas is a mess!". FWIW: I feel sorry for Texans that got screwed over. That said Barry still got two more years to Frack over the US and he hell bent on Giving TX his worse. TX should have succeeded two years ago.
Not sure what you're talking about unless its the fruit-cake liberals in Austin like Sheila Jackson Lee... I live in south Texas and I can tell you life has never been better... We're used to illegals down here, who do you think works in the restaurants and cuts our grass?
Nobody I know or heard of were polled.
Hell, I bet it's been running over 75% up here for breaking away from the mitten for the last 40 years or so....
And for those who think the 300K people up here wouldn't make it, just see how high steel prices get when the Soo Locks are closed, and the PM mines open up.
I'd rather deal with Canada than D.C., and their beer is better.
Holy shit, check out the results for people who served in the military between 2001 and 2011:
Poll of recent military veterans
If we get another civil war, I think it might start within the ranks of the military.
You'll be trading iron ore for oranges so you don't get scurvy in the winter. Deer meet will get old after a year or so.
Long dental implants.
Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto thanked California during his visit to California's state capital of Sacramento for improving the lives of immigrants from his country, including legalizing drivers' licenses for undocumented migrants and making it easier for them to work and start businesses. He called on other states to "evolve" like California so the United States can be more like his home country.
"This is the other Mexico," Peña Nieto reportedly "said of the United States.
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-California/2014/08/26/United-States-o...
"But even when the new Constitution made secession illegal..."
Where does it say that, douchebag?
Well, we all know that on geologic time-scale, the USA is and will be inconsequential, aside from any residual radioactivity. That said, you're completely correct re the Constitution being silent on secession/dissolution of the union; however, the Articles of Confederation did specify that the union was perpetual, and top federal legal minds have determined (deemed?) that that portion of the Articles was understood by all to be carried over the subsequent Union.
The USA will end the old fashioned way: through the actions of men with weapons, though at this point we don't know which men.
"Good fucking luck getting the courts to enforce the 10th though."
Rather unlikely I'd have to say:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/us/politics/building-legacy-obama-resh...
Judges appointed by Dems now hold majority of seats on U.S. Courts of Appeals
It goes far, far beyond red vs blue on this. The 10th hasn't really been enforced for sometime after the end of the Civil War.
agreed. you always here about the 2nd being the most infringed upon, and lately the 4th with all the no-knock warrants and illegal spying, but, historically, the 10th has gotta be the most violated amendment of them all, by both parties. I consider the govt doing, or making the states and people 'do', anything not specifically allowed by the constitution, to be a violation of the 10th.
The courts are largely seen with contempt these days. When the insurrection really gets rolling, they will be rendered moot...
Of the three allegedly co-equal branches of .gov, justice is the most worthy of contempt. All of my experiences with them have been bad.
That varies from state to state and even district to district. The Rio Rancho muni courts near me are fucking kangaroo courts. Want to get out of a ticket there? Go in, argue your case, lose, then appeal it to the District Court. They're all about getting revenue with the minimum amount of work. When you appeal it to big-boy court, they don't want to go through the effort most of the time.
I won against a bank pro se when they sued me in my local district court. The Albuquerque metro court is a crap shoot though. The US District Court here has a chief justice who tends to rule against police state BS, and he's steering the ship, so to speak. He even ruled that cops who detain somebody for the mere fact that the person was carrying a firearm do NOT have qualified immunity and can be personally sued. The 9th Circus though? Yikes! And the SCOTUS and it's continual war against the 4th Amendment... fuck'em. I'm quasi-glad over the Heller v DC and Mcdonald v Chicago cases, but I don't think that the SCOTUS went far enough on those.
That varies from state to state and even district to district. The Rio Rancho muni courts near me are fucking kangaroo courts. Want to get out of a ticket there? Go in, argue your case, lose, then appeal it to the District Court. They're all about getting revenue with the minimum amount of work. When you appeal it to big-boy court, they don't want to go through the effort most of the time.
This is universal with municipal courts... The issue isn't that the prosecutor is scared of going to a trial (that requires more work and rolling over on piddly ass tickets isn't going to get the prosecutor in hot water with his electorate), rather the issue is that the prosecutor doesn't want to poison the municipal court well. In our legal system, proseuctors have "prosecutorial discretion" to bring (or not bring) a case against a citizen. It's actually one of the pillars of the system. The problem is that municipal courts are ruled by judges, without check or balance. The result is that if the prosecutor crosses the municipal court judge, then he'll have hell to pay... so, if the defendant appeals to a higher court, then the prosecutor can lay down without pissing off the municipal judge. If the judge is happy with the prosecutor, then every case that comes before the court is won by the prosecution... easy gig if you can get it (or sleep at night knowing the bullshit you're pulling).
The people have to enforce it if the states won't. Notice the language, "the states respectively or to the people." Kind of brings us back to the 2nd amendment.
No problem. Hang all the judges & lawyers for treason.
Judges and Lawyers were the first in line for the Guillotine at the start of the French Revolution.
"Judges and Lawyers were the first in line for the Guillotine at the start of the French Revolution."
In this case, the US isn't French. Americans are too stupid to see that the gov't is enslaving them.
Beheading is coming back in one part of the world.
Judges and Lawyers were the first in line for the Guillotine at the start of the French Revolution.
And the american revolution... busy drafting the founding documents of the country... and, thankfully, the war was won...
Were the original 13th Amendment in force and effect( and yes it was ratified in 1809 by the states--I have personally seen that original amendment in a court used book) ALL judges and attorneys would be declared non citizens and could be deported for swearing alligence to the British Crown (BAR stands for British Accreditation Registry)
We will have a Constitutional Convension as per Article 5 of the U.S. Constitution in 2016 (already passed by 43 states)
The political convensions will be shit compared to this. Come armed I think. Milestones
http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1993-12-30/
We have always been divided into 5 territories, it is pretty much a matter of informing them we have split into the five states.
This action, in and of itself, automatically puts Texas as the state with the most senate seats of any state of the union.
This is not provided for in the Constitution. It IS the only reason Texas is a single state. In this scenario, Texas does NOT secede, but in fact is removed from the union, by the union.
Texas joined the union by treaty, only.....
AND WE'VE HAD ENOUGH OF THE FUCKING BULLSHIT.................
We make the rules here, and the fucking feds better not forget it.
So, one must ask at this point in time, with history ringing clear, just exactly WHO are the dumb asses again???
Sorry, but we ain't taking Illinois or Michigan in our Great Lakes superstate. Those places can fuck right off.
I don't want anything to do with Michigan, either....
Time to re-instate the 'Blow Up the Bridge Committee' and be done with them.
Greenie from me and I live in that shitshack known as Illinois.
Actually - if the cesspool on the lake would be walled off (and filled to the top with water) this wouldnt be a bad state.
>>>This action, in and of itself, automatically puts Texas as the state with the most senate seats of any state of the union.
You are forgetting the state of New England, with 14 million residents, 12 US Senators, and 33 electoral votes. That's a pretty sweet deal.
and everyone knows New England is among the most bought off places outside DC
with you here. Not exactly sure why this even has to get violent.Its just business. Individuals and states repudiating Federal Debt they had nothing to do with contracting. That's all. Something only a psychopath could get truly violent about.
However Robt. E Lee could tell us all a thing or two about centralized control freak psychopaths....
Uhh sure fat man, guess you forgot about 1861- 1865. Y'know the "war of northern agression"
States already tried that - remember? They got Lincolned and the country lost 600,000 men.
The next great experiment.
Our government has done a remarkable job of dividing the nation.
Finish the job and divide it. Pick 5 to 25 states and allow them to become idependent entities.
They are free to issue their own currency and have no access to federal programs.
You would have the choice for example to live in Texas, transact your business in NTD (New Texas Dollars), backed by gold or silver. You would live in a state where no one has access to EBT, SNAP, or receives housing credits.
Pick a tax model that works like in Tennessee, no state income tax & low property taxes.
A level playing field for people who are interested in working to build wealth and to improve their station in life.
If there were 5 states out of 50 that provided that opportunity I believe they would thrive while the deadbeats would consolodate in the welfare states.
I'll bet you 100 NTD that within 10 years any state that went that route would be an economic powerhouse like Germany is today.
Which great uniter is that? Lincoln?
Timely article on how secession works here:
http://novorossia.today/publications/world/novorossiya-support/helping-novorossiyans-remember-the-past-886.html
Does anybody really expect today's kleptocrats to wake up one fine morning and say "We really haven't been fair, so let's let the people walk away from our mess this time and start over ..."
I'm surprised you got so many upvotes with all of the morality police out in full force in the 46 signs of America's decline post.
According to CNN, the southwest has 34% in favor of secession, 76% not in favor.
what currency are they thinking they are gone have??? the old greenback? or they have not gotten that far on thinking how this actually takes place? what about the debts from the US ... how much they are willing to take over?
it is easy to say yes but when actually it comes down to numbers ... better be careful!
That is your argument against secession? The US dollar is just too awesome to leave behind? And as for taking over a portion of US debt, yeah that would suck, but it is only going to suck more next year, and even more in ten years, etc. The sooner you leave, the sooner you can start getting better.
I'll be happy with barter, gold and silver. Hell, bring back pure copper coins.
Here in Dixie, a lot of people never gave up on the Civil War and never agreed to join up with the yankees.
So the poll isn't that accurate.
Exactly, we have simply been biding our time until the rematch
If reconstruction would have been handled a bit differently, then there might have actually been a union... add to the fact that the flyover and former confederate states disproportionately fill the military ranks and manufacturing centers have migrated south... and you've got yourself a pickle.
There isn't much worse than hearing europeans refer to all americans as "yankees." I'd like for them to go into a dive bar in the ozarks or appalachians and try that shit.
Zinc is the new copper.
The Libertarian Party are working to incorporate gold, silver and crypto currencies as alternative local currencies to the vile US Federal Reserve note. IMO we should support this.
If states were going to have to take a portion of the federal debt with them if they seceed, its only fair if they get a similar percentage of the alleged gold reserves we allegedly have in fort knox. No excuses, Im sure each state has plenty of armored cars they can hire for the job, just drive up there, load up a couple tons at a time, drive back. Unless that gold is gone?
No, the debt stays with the elephant/jackass sock puppets in the District of Corruption who incurred it and their bankster cartel masters who enabled it. The collateral, consisting of the tyrants' lives, would be repossessed by their Chink, Nip & Towelhead creditors.
The states would leave in peace, each with its share of any remaining gold and free of the United State_'s debt, another good reason to seceed. The elites who stole rest of The People's gold would be hunted down like rabid dogs.
http://leagueofthesouth.com/
http://freeflorida.org/
They will have the peso.
According to CNN
Who?
we will use gold silver and barter. debt my ass yall spent it and yall can pay it back. for me I ask nothing from the government except protection. I pay out the ass in taxes. I don't agree with paying people not to work and never will I the disabled and old payed for THIER benefits.
"the disabled and old payed for THIER benefits"
How's that? What do you mean?
It sounds like you're contradicting yourself.
"what about the debts from the US ... how much they are willing to take over?"
Listen, I got a good laugh from that one. I guess it depends on how much Israel is "WILLING" to return.
"what about the debts from the US ... how much they are willing to take over?"
Tell you what, I'll gladly assume the debt that I personally accrued which isn't very much. But that is offset by the money stolen from me in nearly 60 years of immoral direct taxation. And I'll take a lump sum payout of the social security and medicare I've...cough...contributed.
"what about the debts from the US ... how much they are willing to take over?"
How about none? How about every constituent part of the former U.S. tells the bondholders to bugger off?
"what currency are they thinking they are gone have???"
Some folks are way ahead of you on the answer to that question ...
http://www.publicbankinginstitute.org/
But when it "comes down to numbers" others would rather trust the bankers. Oh yeah.
Secession would be the perfect opportunity to install a properly managed medium of exchange.
Zero inflation and zero interest to responsible traders. What's not to love about that.
If "IT" is "managed", it will become just what we have now.
Also, Trade and Capital are part of the same dynamic.
Don't let the current misuse of terms mix you up. Debt is not Capital.
Capital is based on Assets - Tools, Ideas, Labor - not future promises.
Terminate the
FRN and RESTORE the dollar.
yes, you are correct, taking over a portion of the debt would suck. However, would you rather take a portion of the 17T it is now, or wait a few years when its 25T? Its only going to keep getting bigger. Thats the thing with debt-based monetary systems, they rely on ever increasing debt or everything comes to a halt.
Apparently, there's one ZH user that either can't add, or just doesn't have a sense of humor.
Maybe even both.
...and as Yogi Berra would say, "The other half are undecided."
Given the outcomes in Quebec and Scottish referendum, where the NO side won by a small margin, I'd argue that the YES side will need 75% For Secession, just to get to the 51% "official" results.
Clearly the real issue is not who votes, but who counts the votes. The process is too prone to rigging, fraud and manipulation -- all by design (as a failsafe insurance policy).
starting at opinion poll of 75% in favor of secession is absolutely necessary - otherwise dont bother - once the powers that be start the FEAR campaign - you will peel off a ton of people
What the Confederacy did was to me amazing in retrospect - they not only overcame fear but went to war for their beliefs - incredible group of people and i am not from the south
that level of dedication doesnt exist anymore
stop and look around you, Americans. what I see: chinese, nigerians, mexicans and other central americans, egyptians , north africans, koreans, vietnamese,.and other non white non europeans
That is what our politicians see very clearly.
Think about your polls and vote counts now.
The founders and the european mal contents that made up America up to the 20th century, are now becoming the minority. Those values held by Americans who were mostly from European stock are not held by the above.
That was a plan put in place during the wilson era and with progessive governments sense.
If white europeans freedom seekers want a country that reflects our values the flood of third worlders must stop (will not happen while current crop of crooks in DC are in power)
otherwise prepare to live as the third world does with corrupt police ,judges and central .govs..
Demographics has produced the changes that lead to total control and loss of all freedoms. the new immigrants do not share the vision of the founders, in fact they want America to be much like where they left, sharia law is coming for those who live with ME immigrants in our mid west.
CNN... another math wiz on site.
yeah, just like I saw a scottish one that said No won 58-52%
wait, that was probably true
The topic of the missive is about secession and the factors that CONTRIBUTE to it; not the opposite.
It's not the benefits of being together; thou featherwit; it's being under the boot of a foreign occupying force based in Washington.
Unemployment will fix that. When the remainders of the middle class get pulled down with poor, that will light the fuse. The poor are what they have always been, too lazy to get off their asses to start shit.
Too much sole of the boot of government/media in our face to start shit.
T he Watts riots?
Wait....without the Federal government who is going to protect my freedoms??
Yourself and Mr Colt.
Actually, Mr. Glock and Ms. Uzi might work, too. I understand that they make a great couple.
-- Paul D. Bain
PaulBain@PObox.com
What about those of us who want to secede from government altogether?
Sign me up. Scotland had right idea. Too bad vote cheaters won.
Must read if you're a Texan
http://www.texnat.org/line-in-the-sand.pdf
In my circles, the percentage is 100%, or higher.
Mine, too- and I mean, like 30-40 people.
May be bigger than folks think!
You should click on the article and go to the more detailed graph. Only 9% or so "strongly" support it, while the rest are kind of "tend" to support it. Yet a much larger (37%) "strongly" are against it. The other thing that appears to be happening is that we are becoming more balkanized. I guess a lot of people have their heads up their asses, see the corruption and push their heads further up there so that they don't have to see the reality that our country has gone to complete shit.
The other things that I would like to see regarding those who would like to secede: How many of them grow at least some of their own food and how many are gun owners?
E.V. So, is there any truth in the often stated, "3% that did it first, back in the 1700's"?
If so, the numbers you list are pretty important.
I think that the numbers will change rapidly at the next financial crisis. Bail-ins and the eventual theft of retirement accounts will most likely be a bitch-slap to a lot of people. It's not just about the 3% or whatever, it is also about the logistical support that they receive, which means that you need a decent chunk of the population behind whomever is willing to pick up a rifle and fight. IIRC, at the start of the American Revolution, that was only about 1/3 of the population, with 1/3 still being loyal and 1/3 not giving a shit.
Will the groceries, water and electricity keep coming?
How's this gonna' work?
"fo' an xtruh EBT card anna 'bamafone, I vote fo' wha'evah U sae!"
The UN has the water thing covered. No worries.
Everything will be fine, once they are annexed by Mexico.
Your own well, your own garden/livestock, your own solar, wind, and/or hydro.
Groceries, water and electrcity are all major underpinnings to our planned dependence. They don't control public services because they love us.
1 in 4 "residents" or "citizens"? If the former, the South West will never secede as there are new "residents" being added daily thanks to the border.
In the southwest, wouldn't there be a desire to form HS - the Hispanic State?
That is where the first secession movement will come from. The globalists have to know this. If the US is the primary instrument of global power, why the drive to break it up?
Just keep in mind the Southwest, as we call it, was formerly called "Mexico", and the people who live today in what we call "Mexico" remember that. The Southwest could never be independent.
Yeah, I live in the Southwest. Going back to Mexico? Not without one helluva fight.
I believe they call it Atzlan gringo!
They don't have the guns to back it up. There are also a lot of very old hispanic families who won't want anything to do with Mexico. Me? On my mom's side, it was French trappers who came down before we were even part of the US, and on my dad's side, my great grandfather moved to the territory of NM because he had TB. I have roots here and some of the old hispanic families have even deeper roots. We all look at what is going on south of the border and say "fuck that shit." Even some of the (legal) immigrants that I talk to say that they won't go back down to Juarez to visit family because of what's going on down there. Mexico is a fucking mess.
Edit: Even the Navajos here hate Mexicans. I don't hate them, I just know that we cannot support them.
Holder will give them the guns. He has done it before.
Doesn't mean they know how to use them.
The Southwest was always independent.
They renounced Mexico rule. There's no reason they cannot renounce Washington rule.
We the People have the government we allow ourselves to have.
How people agree to live together is the definition of government.
I agree with one slight amplification:
We The Purple trade our complete and total freedom (given by God) for some modicum of safety, security and plentiful Big Macs. That's why we call our law structure Bills. The Bill of Rights is simply an invoice from the government, which outlines the terms and conditions of your surrender.
Yes, people trade a little of their sovereignty to be in a group. Very few people want to live completely in the wilderness.
It's all a question of how much? And how long does the group continue to be desirable?
Texas renounced Mexico rule and subsequently begged Washington to take them in. Why? Because they knew they couldn't stop Mexico from invading and taking them over again. There will be a fight. The best you could hope for is a long fight. Enjoy!
Who would pay for the "free shit"?
Hmmm. I guess Barry would have to return to his rent boy profession to pay for all that stuff.
I hope he has sucking power.
I hate Old New England.
Obama's America
Zimbabwe?
Sounds too low. Most Red states can see how bad things are going. With a 7% approval rating of Congress only 25% want out? Scotland tried a simple question - if it ever happens in the US it would require a careful set of promises to the dependent class (maybe even promising them MOAR). Then after you get their votes you can always do a Cameron and start reneging on any promises.
2015.75...? C'mon man, you know it was 2015.813339... Can't you at least strive for a little accuracy in your forecasts? DOW 32,000 in 2015 remember... Or was that 32,157...?
It refers to time, not quantity. Quarter 3 of 2015. Or, 2015q3, or 2015.75
He had revised this number at least twice since '08. Armstrong is just another doom peddler who makes a nice buck ranting and raving and constantly changing the goal line.
Every man, woman and child are their own state.
You become more or less, or Moral-Less, independent every day, depending on your actions, words, deeds, or willing servitude to the State.
Most here already know that though.
Sliced differently, we see in other surveys that only single digit percentage of people in the US are content with the politicians. Thus, there must be a huge overlap of those that said 'no' to secede and who also said they are not content with the politicians.
So, they'll just hang around like a battered and abused spouse *hoping* things get better?
Yes, and 1 in 4 Americans think George W. Bush was a good President. It's the same 25%.
The 25% that thought god put GWB in the White House. Then there's the 25% non-secessionist that think god is in the White House.
Then there are the uncounted that don't give a fuck who's in the WH, but realize that whoever it is is likely a devilish, parasitic, violence-prone murderous warmonger.
C'mon now. This was tried 150 years ago. Don't be naïve and send Ron Paul money or anything.
Which one is the Feds and which one is the secessionist.
Don't Be A Menace crazy bitch ghettoblaster
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-mZ8AsvHX4
"When did the US begin to LIE to her citizens as part of official policy? Was it in 1947, the second day after Roswell? Or was it much earlier, perhaps 1912 when the Federal Reserve rose to power and, like termites, began to destroy this archaic wooden structure called America from within? Perhaps the state began to lie in earnest in the faked war with Spain, or the faked war with Mexico, a war protested by Thoreau.
"Or was it long before? Or does the exact date really even matter?
"Truthers know the state lied long before 911, long before Roswell, long before their parents and grandparents were born. States LIE, and thus Truthers must resist them with whatever means they have at hand.
"To be a Truther is to be a man or woman of such a stubborn streak, a cheerful non-conformist in a world of placid conformity, a purist in the very real sense of the word, simply because you like your truths to be self-evident and unadulterated.
"Maybe you were a Truther from the day you were born. Maybe Truth was part of your DNA! Maybe the need for the truth is as intrinsic to you as your need to breathe fresh, pure air, your desire to drink deeply, from the scarcest springs of pure freshwater. Your very real need for the truth made you a TRUTHER long before 911, long before Vietnam, long before history, long before the Dawn of Man. Long before you existed."
Truther Long Before It Was Cool | Strike-The-Root:
PEOPLE lie. To the extent states are made of people, states also lie. Human nature. From the beginning.
On balance, the average person tends towards honesty; while those who end up in power tend more toward dishonesty. Thus, the state is more dishonest than average human nature.
When the chips are down, people lie. It's easy to be "honest" when it costs nothing. The average person tends toward honesty when there is no conflict. When there is a conflict, however, people lie for advantage. Twas ever thus.
Its easy to lie when it costs you nothing, too.
Even more lucrative when it does the opposite of cost you
Outstanding ... Thank you!!
Truth is at the beginning of all things .... Discovery is a key purpose of Life
Beautifully said alexcojones
Truth is subjective. My truth is better than your truth. If truther means digging up dirt on USG or Corps, that makes you a muckraker. Statists are not inanimate. They are a group of people, albeit faceless, subject to influence as much as you or I. Unity starts when we can identify over arching ideals that we share
"Truth is subjective." Not really.
The Truth you have discovered is subject to your ability to see and define it.
Truth itself is not dependent upon you. It exists whether or not you exist.
"Unity starts when we can identify over arching ideals that we share"
True ;)
It was long before ...
AntiFederalist Paper No. 1
GENERAL INTRODUCTION:
A DANGEROUS PLAN OF BENEFIT ONLY TO THE “ARISTOCRATICK COMBINATION”
From The Boston Gazette and Country Journal, November 26, 1787.
http://www.anamericanvision.com/freedom_documents/anti_federalist_papers/
Maybe this is too simplistic an explanation, but the vote could be divided along the lines of the makers versus the takers?
There are two kinds of people in the world.
But who would the makers sell their shit to? And would the makers be willing to pay for the roads, schools etc? Why would a maker work for someone else? On and on...
Cautiously Piss - you are a GOP/TEA and you voted for "W" which was stupid. But you still carry the Rand line of thinking. You probably have a history of being a taker yourself.
Make it even simpler.
Let’s say today we just euthanize anyone who receives a government direct deposit – Social Security, disability, eBT, DMV operator – any form. Then never speak of the act again.
When Putin unplugs Russia from the internet will ZH and the Russkie posters go speechless?
New Bolshevik agents growing here at ZH by the day.
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Historydo you mean zionists or actual communist types?
be specific.
Thanks.
lakecity55
The kind that drink Yodka and sit on their knees and dance, fun types.
Zioqueers. The original commies and the architects of it all.
Infinite QE
Ah I flushed a ZH worker out.
Down arrow for you are a Russkie or ISIS head scavenger.
Same thing ain't it?
Fuck Yeah!
"All I have left is DC and maybe part of Massachusets, Reggie."
"I know , baby, but you are still My Man."
What needs to happen is that ALL television networks need to be forced to carry a one week long series about the truth of the federal reserve system and follow that up with a country wide campaign to terminate it and seek reparations from its owners.
That would be great!!!! The only issue I see is the television network share holders are the same share holders of the FED. You would have to use force for a takeover of television networks.
Igor Panarin, the russian scientist who correctly predicted the breakup of the USSR in 1976, also predicts the breakup of the USA: http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/P1-AO116_RUSPRO_NS_20081228191715.gif
http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB123051100709638419
Spinone - you're proof that this site is a GOP haven, and as we know, GOPers believe anything and are quite stupid.