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The Logistical Challenge Of Air Operations In Syria
From Stratfor
The Logistical Challenge Of Air Operations In Syria
The composition of the force carrying out airstrikes in Syria highlights the logistical complexity of this kind of operation. Most of the U.S. aircraft taking part in the operations over northern Iraq and Syria are based in and around the Persian Gulf, meaning they are operating far from their origins. Bahrain, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Qatar reportedly participated in the initial operations in Syria, adding further complexity and coordination issues.
While U.S. aircraft are spread around several bases in the region, the USS George H.W. Bush aircraft carrier, currently located in the Persian Gulf, has one of the highest concentrations of air assets. Carrier Wing 8 comprises 48 F/A-18 multirole aircraft as well as EA-6B Prowler electronic warfare aircraft. Elements of this strike force took part in the third wave of operations over Syria on Sept. 22. These carrier-based aircraft would have been operating more than 850 miles from their point of origin, which is beyond their combat radius.
This extended range makes aerial refueling assets necessary to conduct operations in Syria, just as they have been for operations over northern Iraq in recent weeks. These assets can extend the operational range of aircraft significantly. Yet, the dependence on aerial refueling tanker aircraft for the execution of these airstrikes is a major constraint. U.S. sources have already hinted at a lack of capability for aerial refueling, and Washington has called upon its allies to assist in building capacity for ongoing operations. Previously, when airstrikes were still limited to northern Iraq, aerial refueling aircraft enabled other aircraft to conduct long-range combat patrols and surveillance flights in a third of the air sorties conducted.
With U.S. allies in the region taking a more active role in the airstrikes, the prospect of flying more U.S. aircraft from bases in Gulf countries increases. Along with the possibility of using Turkish air bases, the potential to deploy air assets from locations in neighboring countries would simplify the logistics that go into running long-range combat patrols and airstrikes assisted by aerial refueling. A further problem to overcome, however, is the obstacle of domestic politics and the potential for regional friction as a result of involvement in a U.S.-led air campaign.
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Short version: Think "Obamacare" but with bombs. It's going to be a complete disaster.
So, am I supposed to feel sorry for them ? Staying home and minding your own goddam busness isn't much of a logistical problem.
Yes, would be so much more logistically facilimente if all flights were taking off from the Chosen Homeland, with an air corridor opened up from Tel Aviv to Tehran...
Saudi Arabia: where the chicken come home to roost!
I use the disconnect and dibelief of the Saudi elite to predict that just a few months and Saudi Arabia will burn its 1001 nights.
OBOMBacare
Only no care, just Bombs.
Obomba Syrinam
The premise is a disaster, I don't really care about the execution.
The reason why we're in the middle east is because it's a lot easier, logistically, to refuel our attack aircraft to bomb the middle east.
All this while President Zero prattles on about Global Warming/Cooling/Climate Change at the UN.
Problem Number 1 Russia.
Problem number 2 China.
RIPS
I gather that Problem #3 (ISIS Oil and Weapons Assets in Iraq) has been destroyed , and the US need only focus on Syria -- where the ISIS oil assets are actually stolen Syrian oil assets?
I mean, it's not as though ISIS has no Oil or Weapons that need bombing in Iraq, right? /sarc
After the troops cross the bridge, burn it! The only way out is forward through Syria.
Fuck these Psychos.
RIPS
What the fuck does this mean. Russia is doing everything it can to find peaceful solutions to the warmongering of the USA
Problemnumber 1 2 and 3 is fuck'n usa
"This extended range makes aerial refueling assets necessary to conduct operations in Syria, just as they have been for operations over northern Iraq in recent weeks."
Boeing will have the first 17 of their brand new heavily modified 767 tankers ready by 2017 (maybe).
Will that help?
They aready told us this was going to go on for "years", so my guess is Yes.
Behold the KC-46A Tanker.
Should I mention Boeing 'bought' this contract by underbidding EADS by a lot (at least $1 billion) to give them the development contract and a leg up for building several hundred more expected over the next 15 years?
Should I also mention they are already in trouble with bad wiring harnesses and have nearly burned through all the wiggle room in the development schedule. And they haven't even begun testing yet. Thank God it is a fixed rate contract......for now
Commonly heard around the Engineering R&D watercooler; "since we didn't have time to do it right; it's a lucky thing we have plenty of time to do it over"
And around every water cooler, "If it weren't for the last minute, nothing would ever get done at all."
Utterly absurd waste of money. Twenty years ago the Brits pulled some Lockheed L-1011 airliner aircraft that were parked in storage and converted them to RAF tankers. They are still flying. No one knows how to waste money like the US DOD.
its the economy, stupid
Good to see the American armed forces have high moral standards and would never go along with orders that go against the interests of the American public , I hope they all just drop dead , fuckers.
So they are suddenly different than Goldman? Wal-Mart? Your local fucking banker? Maybe different than Alibaba?
Come on man. Dumb comment. I'm sure they hope you drop dead too.
When Russia and China finish with the American people after they invade and treat us like we did the German public after WW2 then you can say it is a dumb comment because this is how it is going to start and you will not be watching this war on TV you will be watching it in the eyes of your family . Also I hate to say this but this is where WW3 starts in the bible . By your reply I wold say you must of been in the line of killing people for a living , you really must feel a great sence of achevement in your life , and the world must be a richer place for your contribution to humanity.
Amerika has become an insane country where bombing people by creating "wars" for bankers is normal behavior. They are conditioned by TV and Hollywood. It will interesting and sad if America starts getting bombed by an "enemy" with jets or rockets. I wonder how people will react?
This idea that America is a moral country is fantasy. Our knee jerk solution to every problem is bomb em! The problems are really fake problems or threats created to destroy a small country and loot it.
Oh please. Russia and China won't bother with invading any more than we invaded Japan for the same reason Japan stayed outside our borders. Stock up on 1MM SPF sunscreen folks. Either that or they'll just wait til our economy is in a shambles and use their physical gold to buy up anything worth sonething. Either way we're screwed.
They won't buy all the stuff, because then they might have to pay taxes on it.
Wait until people get too desperate for food, and become willing to sell their voting rights.
Just not sure if that will happen before, or after they sell their children, DNA, and souls.
LOL. well, I suppose it'll help Boeing.
from syrian perspective
Anonymous
September 24th, 2014 at 8:24 PM [Level 0 - Anonymous]My conclusions /Observations..
1) It is clear that at very least the Syrian Government is giving an opportunity to Obama to reverse the damage he have done to Syria , just an opportunity to see what happens..
2)Syria have nothing much to lose with air strikes in north east of Syria... specially because Obama notified Syrian government of their intentions.. means recognition of Assad behind the scenes..as President..
3) Russia and IRAN pushing for an UN resolution for guarantees that Obama cannot change its plans from ISIS to Assad.
Other things however..
4)The flyover over northern Syria alone will not produce much gains/advantage over Syrian defenses ,you can map Syrian Radars space without invading Syria anyway..
5)Syrian Radars are not all active.. They have been setup by Russia and they are interconnected..So if Russia wanted to do it.. they could configure things in a way that one lonely radar in Tartus and another in Damascus can be the eyes of all Syria Sam defenses.. at least above 3km to 5km above land should be seen. You only need Radars close to your enemies if they are flying low altitude.. but at low altitude planes are vulnerable to manpads and regular gun fire including the F-22..it cannot hide its signal a short distance only at far.. it means that any soviet Sam Defense from vietnam era will be enough to finish an F-22 if make the mistake to step on the zone of a Sam Defenses without its Radars turned off.. but receiving data from another Radar .
6)So called Holes that US talk about Syrian defenses are non sense.. Simply Syria do not show all its cards .. and all its Radars.. you either can have passive radars and they cannot be detected like mobile defences TOR/Pansir or Buks or simply you have them connected in a network and 12 Air defenses units can be connected but only 1 reveal its position.. US airforce could target avoid the one they see ,but they will not avoid the ones they do not see. For example Russian Radars in Russian Territory for sure are connected with Syria.. So if Russia wanted they could share information.. and virtually Syria could turn off all its radars and only use the Russian ones in main land or the ones at Russian warships. with the limitation of altitude that cannot see low level flying planes.. but such planes are vulnerable to manpads or regular artillery .So the so called holes that US claim "mapped" means nothing..is only what Syria wants to show.
7)US can attack with Drones and Tomahawks misisles.. the greatest danger is massive attacks of Tomahawks on Syrian military bases.. however Syria have tools to counter that.. Pantisirs and Tors can defeat low flying Cruise missiles and S-300s.. 50% of the time according to Russia. the ones that fail could be defeated by GPS jammers.. they basically copy the signals the tomahawks receive and repeats them again ..with the result of confusing the cruise missile.. GPS jammers can be very effective. and im sure Russia have given them to Syria. Only way to avoid GPS jammers is with Ballistic missiles but such attacks you cannot hide from Russian radars since fly high altitude. Russian Vorodez Radars for example detected Israel test of ballisctic missiles all the way to Syrian border.
8)There is something called Decoys.. this can be very very effective to fool any attack.. from air to ground missiles chasing a radar image. In a previous video in kosovo war ,their decoys were extremely successful ,Serbia managed to fool NATO airforces used primitive home decoys. And made them to bomb fake targets again and again and again.. after 20,000 bombs they only destroyed a dozen of tanks. they will look on NATO planes like Radars and or Tanks or artillery positions. The problem is that NATO cannot fly a sight distance below 4km altitude in Syria to attack anything because will make them vulnerable to any manpad or regular cannons gun fire or even assault rifles.. and ak-47 can shot down an F-22. for example. If is pilot is fool enough to use the plane like a close air support plane..
Take a look at Russia more advanced decoys . they are desgined to look identical to S-300s in satelites images and planes radars ,they also emit the same heat and radiation. only way to notice the fake is a very close distance..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZWPyy8Nfj4
This is the reason that for a Real bombing of Syrian Government its enemies needs ground troops with lazer designators because planes flying high are limited its view of real targets, And drones can be hacked with counter electronics. All Said.. US declaring a no fly zone over Syria will not be easy , and free of pain . They will lose many planes /drones if they start attacking Syrian government.
The key for Syria will be whether they can replace any radar or AA missiles that get destroyed. Once a few cracks appear in a defense the attackers will exploit those to chisel away more and more. I would expect that Putin has sent substantial help to Syria but we won't know unless we attack. By chasing all of the civilians out, the US bombs are making easier for Syrian ground troops!
Well, t hey do have a Naval Port in Tartus; last time I looked, Naval Ports were regarded as crucially significant to re-supply fighting allies.
Glad I kept all those Klystron Tubes. I knew low frequency radar would make a comeback.
deleted accidental duplicate.
If this hasn't happened already (have not been in Aerospace Defense for while), then SA and AA rockets will get smart enough to not get fooled by hot chaff that planes eject in defense to an incoming rocket.
Given all the Image Processing capability that GPU boards have these days -- thanks to Crypto-Currency mining -- I'd imagine that Russian rockets will soon incorporate ways of augmenting their rockets' IR seeker with Image Processing+Recognition. IOW, the rocket is now smart enough to ignore the Chaff and keep homing in on the Plane itself. --> Kaboom!
Million-Dollar Rocket vs. $100M plane. Sustainable? Hmmmm...
"This is the reason that for a Real bombing of Syrian Government its enemies needs ground troops with lazer designators because planes flying high are limited its view of real targets, "
Good point...pretty sure there's already a couple hundred SF in Syria with laser designators.
The main logistical challenge was 'how to bomb Syrian army assets' that are NOT in ISIS controlled territory. Problem solved - invent Khorasan!
syria goin down.... next ... iran.... bet your ass on it....
far as isis goes... booties on the ground.... could be hvt mercs...
few realize the ussa had 140,000 "private" fighters in iraq.... yazza with no rules of engagement muthfuka...
al baghdadi should invest in a google glass with 360 degree view.... who knows they may already have him...
hack their comms ... issue bogus orders.. marshall them and kaboom... goodbye..
far as the khardashian bomb maker... look in iran...
ok yanks on..
Mercs are the only logical option -
1. Put enough boots on the ground to stabilize (advise) the Iraqi army and provide ground intel and coordinate air strikes - Done!
2. Set up a bombing plan that disperse ISIS troops and destroys any heavy weapons they expose - Done!
3. Get the Iraqi army to attack in a cohesive manner - Dismissed as impossible!
4. Hire mercs to hit ISIS targets and take out ISIS leaders - Probably already in place!
5. As the mercs take out ISIS strongpoints, roll the Iraqi army to occupy the winnings.
Who cares..!
Pipelines, pipelines, pipelines...what won't we do for pipelines!?!
Listen.
Let me make myself really, really clear here: FUCK STRATFOR!
Drop these douchbags, "NOW"!
Most logistical challenges can be overcome by spending money.
You see where this concept is going?
Going to be interesting. expecting some very successful russian SAM operations.
Fuck Stratfor.
Question: Does Erdogan (Ottoman Caliph?) want the Sykes-Picot Agreement modified for the NWO?
That's to say Syria and Iraq brought back into the fold...
Meanwhile, for the history buffs out there: "Iraqi Assyrians face Religious Persecution and Ethnic Genocide?" (fog ole war collateral damage x^ )
http://www.atour.com/news/assyria/20100424a.html
and this home page... http://www.atour.com/
Note the geography, and why the Kurd's, Arab Islamist, and Iraqi Army loathe these people even today?!? Remember that Iraqi's are Arabs and NOT Persian.
jmo
Ps. If war does break out with the AKP v. PKK their will be a two-front war that makes it easier for (DAESH) IS, to fight a long protracted war-- and, with NatGas shotages it will be hard for Erdogan to thumb his nose at Putin and Crimea (Eastern Ukraine) and using his airbase for logiistics only.
The plot is thickening with a blood`curdling tempo...
It is obvious that ISIS/IL wants to drag the US into another war. Giving your "enemy" what they want doesn't sound like winning strategy.
there are only six strategic locations to concentrate on.
Syria's Aleppo in the North and Damascus in the south (*bordering the next hot spot,... Beirut, Lebanon?)
Iraqi's Mosul furthest north, next Kirkuk, and lowersouth Baghdad... with the biggy Basra deep-south [port ol-call fillerup].
that's it
period!
again, jmo
ISIS/IL = CIA...yeah, they definitely want to drag us into another war (/sarc off the whole way through.)
Erdogan is a zio. Turkey's leaders, or the people in control, are not muslims. Just like the House of Saud or really House of Schlomo.
you tell um freddie : )
cia,state depart,mi6,fucking dog erdogan qatar and saudi so called royals all servents of the cock suckin talmudick rabbi
yes sir
BTW, notice Stratfor doesn't even highlight Iraq as being part of this?
Stratfor is part of the Tribe and is sort of like the ADL.
Which shows how very corrupt the government is as corrupt as any bought and paid for hooker, and the pimp threatens the hooker just as the government is threatened:
Bamford in NYT: “Israel’s NSA Scandal”
Unit 8200 in “Does Israel Have a Backdoor to U.S. Intelligence?
Permeation of U.S. comunications espionage and security apparatus and operations became open during the Clinton Administration. The stated belief was that the Israelis were the best there was at doing this, and probably had penetrated all U.S. communications security channels anyway. So-the reasoning went- why not hire the "best" to implement and manage all U.S. Government communication security systems? This way the Israelis could be sure that no one but them and us could get the insiders knowledge. Since I could read about this in the Wall Street Journal at the time, I assume that many others did as well.
Snowden was too young to be reading the WSJ back then. Too bad more people, who could, didn't read the on-going account of the misdeeds of that heinous regime and its leader in particular.
Probably the best reporting Fox News ever did was the investigation of Israel and 9/11. I vaguely recall they exposed two or three Israeli companies that processed all American phone records (billing) and those companies were loaded with Mossad or Israeli intelligence people.
Have a great deal of respect for Bamford. Read his Puzzle Palace back in the 80's. He's been on the NSA for decades. Surprised he's still breathing.
BIG waste of resources & $$$. Much simpler & lower-cost solution is LARGE CHEAP solid-fuel rockets (eg space shuttle boosters) with payloads in following sequence:
1. fuel-air bombs, can easily get multi-kilo-ton payloads, just as effective as tactical nukes but without radiation
then after site cools
2. nerve gas, widely dispersed
Kill all the humans, take over & repopulate the territory.
Let all the primitives worldwide know that if there are ANY islamic cult worshipers in their territory/country, then they get the same treatment, so they better police theri own territory/country or get exterminated.
Sounds like a variation on a theme from The Borg Solution:
"We are Borg. Resistance is futile. Arguments are irrelevant. Prepare to be assimilated."
It's been known to work in the Galaxy. On Earth... it worked* really well for Hannibal, Genghis Khan, Attila the Hun, the Turks/Ottomans. It hasn't worked so well for Christians in the last 100 years, as they did not take the Resistance, Arguments and Assimilation aspects as seriously, and thus allowed for plenty of Resurgence to flourish.
* They gave a prospective conquest the choice to capitulate and swear allegiance, or for all to die. Another approach was to kill off all males above a certain age (7, I think), and use females as concubines/wives for their soldiers and officers. Obviously they would adapt the religion of the conquerors.
Using a medical metaphor: You can't stop taking antibiotics just because you feel better and the symptoms have disappeared. You take the doses exactly as prescribed, for as long as prescribed, to ensure complete eradication of bacteria. Lest a few survive, mutate, multiply and then attack your body worse than ever.
As a tax paying American, I'm hoppin mad that we invested BILLIONS in WMD's over the decades, and we don't actually use them for jack-shit.
What the fuck good is a "deterrent" if you are too afraid of killing some spotted salamanders or some shit, to USE it.
Surely we must have some obsolete nukes to be disposed of.
Drop a few, and watch Hadji get real nice and polite.
Yeah, let's spew radiation all over the planet, not to mention the mass murder of millions of innocents. But, hey, your armchair must be comfortable.
....and we wonder why they hate us....
Logistics? Are you kidding me? Our Community Organizer in Chief ain't trippin' on no logistics!
Sounds sufficient to supply the necessary humanitarian aid.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/russia-iran-proceed-bilateral-trade-drop-d...
Check the year..... nothing new under the Sun
It is not just logistics. It is the wear and tear on the pilots themselves, the crews servicing the planes.
This is probably a major factor why the Neocon Chickenhawks are clamoring for "boots on the ground".
I would be of some help if, provided that we asked real nice and gave them back good as new, the Israelis could give back the aerial refuelers we gave them in 2012.
Maybe someone on ZH that knows more about USA's aircraft carrier groups can answer this question; Why are there no aircraft carriers in the eastern Mediterranean Sea - or in the Med for that matter? Seems to me that it would be a hell of a closer drive to Syria from the eastern Med than the Persian Gulf . . . . I must be missing something obvious here.
Not that I am condoning airstrikes on Syrian territory or airstrikes on the "ISIS/ISIL/IS/The guys the CIA funded and trained" at all. The whole issue of "airstrikes" stinks to high heaven. How many civilians will be killed in this round of "the bombs falling in air . . ".
No wonder the number of Arabs/Muslims that hate the USA increases on a daily basis. If the whole thing wasn't planned like that you would think we have retards running this country (oops, I guess we do regardless).
You can only believe a public map like this so far, but we've been assigning the active carriers to the Red Sea and Persian Gulf for eleven years, and if there's a carrier in the Mediterranean it's being held in reserve.
If we don't have "secret" staging bases already set up inside of Iraq then someone's a bastard, but it doesn't really pay to have those land bases unless you have good rail lines to it preferably from a convenient port, so who knows.
It seems highly likely Saudi bases are being used at least to launch Saudi missions (probably count them on the fingers of one hand), and who knows if they might just quietly are used for other forces as well.
That's one of those "need to know" things, and you don't.
There are no air craft carriers in the eastern med because they are staggeringly expensive island-size steel targets loaded with bombs & fuel that are ideally suited to quick & easy destruction by cheap anti-ship missiles, launched from either land or aircraft, and Assad has plenty of such missiles.
Well, I had the same question about aircraft carriers in the Med.
Theory #1: No carriers available. Obungle seems to have shifted one carrier from the Atlantic to the Pacific. Also, the graphic shows a carrier in the Persian Gulf. Typically, only a half to a third of carriers are available for deployment at any given time, the rest of the time spent in shipyards undergoing refurbishment/upgrades, or training up crews and air wings for the next deployment.
Theory #2: Too risky for carrier operations. Syria is an actual or virtual Russian naval base. The Black Sea is a Russian lake, and home to a major Russian fleet. The eastern Mediterranean is likely chock full of Russian nuclear submarines and the airways between Syria and Sebastapol are likely clogged with cruise missle armed long range Russian bombers.
I would imagine that if Obungle would do something so provocative to the Russians as to send a carrier battle group to the eastern Med, things would quickly escalate to DefCon 5. Recall that Obungle is a Nobel Peace Prize laureate.
It is curious that there would seem to be NATO bases in the central and eastern Mediterranean that would offer good options for land based operations: Soudha Bay, Crete, Sigonella, Sicily, Decimomanu, Sardinia(?), Aviano, Italy.
My supposition is that these bases are not used because the owning countries politely said "No, Thank you", when asked if they wanted to be a part of the Obungle anti-ISIS coalition.
I'm starting to think Zeroshit is part of the Problem-Reaction-Solution with a whole lot of Intellectual bullshit.Its easy-all Lizards and there Allies need to be exterminated of the face of this planet once and for all,Or humanity will never have peace.
STRATFOR... CIA Hasbeens and Wannabees... I am surprised this site uses them as a source since they are just part of the propaganda machine.
Are expeditionary airfields merely a quaint notion?
COMPARISONS:
ISIL
Big territory takeover
Big arms acquisition from Mosul (Thanks Mr.Obama)
Lots of killing thousands of Kurds Christians, Shiites and some Americans!
Lots of money from oil in two countries
Lots of recruits
PRESIDENT OBAMA
Bombed several business buildings
Bombed several mobile refining rigs
Use Qatar that won't drop bombs!
No numbers of enemy casualties
No ammunition dumps Bombed
No encampments of ISIL bombed
No hidden weapons caches discovered & bombed
No territory retaken
Obamas from his speech in the UN claims his victory! The question is who's he fighting for?
US airforce is bombing empty buildings, they not bombing Jihadists, they need them as ground forces to toople the Syrian Government and Army. I suspect the US has hatched false flag where they will fire on a F-15 or F-16 and blame it on Assad to get the war going. But Putin might say no to that, if ODumber doesn't listen, Putin might go wild with SAM's and starting talking about russian nukes and the damage they can inflict on america.
I don't think Putin will sit idle and allow the Syrian Army to be wiped out by the US airforce. GOD knows what IRAN will do when US airforce attacks the Syrian Army, you might have thousands of missles fired US military airbase's. Russians might come down from the North and Turn Turkey into Greater Greece.
.