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Silver Tumbles To 4 Year Lows As Massive Sell Order Hits At Market Open
Because nothing says efficient market and fiduciary duty like waiting for the US equity market to open to send a huge sell order through the silver futures market... Running the entire stack (and this all resting stops), however, silver has immediately bounced back... Gold was relatively unaffected. Copper had also got plugged early on and is now ripping higher.
and close up...
Copper hit earlier and bounced also..
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Is this a similar ransacking of SLV just like GLD last year to grab the physical? China's exchange is nearly out of the stuff.
Coin shop is out too......
The future is peer to peer currencies. Not barbaric metals!
how about 40 years low?
Embracing a digital wallet is a keystone in giving up what remains of your freedom.
Amen. Anonymity is the new currency.
Barbaric metals are the ultimate peer to peer currency. No infrastructure required, and built in anonymity.
"out"...
SD bullion 100 oz's buffalos
less than 19 $ delivered...
As I've said before (5186639), the real action can be detected via the SPREAD in bullion prices, and its steady increase. That's the real "Canary in the Coalmine": The bigger the spread, the higher its pitch and urgency. Until it keels over, and becomes an ex-Canary.
Just got an email from a large Canadian PM retailer that regularly has "specials" on various PM products. Today's special:
1oz. Silver Canadian "Moose" coins - limited edition 1 million mintage - $4.50 off
"Sale" price is $29.62 in bulk (plus delivery)That is some "sale"
Ordered 2x 100 oz jpm silver bars from them on Friday - 19'th. Usually I would have my order by now, but am starting to receive messages about "payment delays" ( I used interac e-transfer) I am starting to get nervous. I smell smoke.
Thats what i'm thinking.
Until we get yuan convertability in the Shanghai FTZ, we are'nt going to see true price
discovery, but the writings on the wall for COMEX and the LMBA.Hence the looting now.
Maybe so. I was wondering why they waitird until the open when there is more liquidity instead of the normal 8:30 ravaging when they can enlist the aid of everyone who has learned to expect the normal 8:30 ravaging
Tactical mistake. The quick bounce-back is what I'm looking at. Momentum ignition: failed.
guys, harvey organ follows inventory of GLD & SLV. Inventory in SLV hasn't changed in days so he suspects the gold cartel gutted SLV last year sometime....nothing left now but pile of paper.
which means this time....this is it.....market rigging has rigged itself into suicidal mode.
Me, I can't wait to see Janet tell Vlad & Chinese, sorry......we are dfaulting on dec contract...no silver. ... sorry
SLV's inventory has not changed since 2011. I highly suspect it was looted for the takedown at that time.
December contracts will be rolled as quid pro quo for US not opposing China's takeback of Senkaku/Diaoyo islands. Either the US turns a blind eye or PBoC crashes Comex & LBMA with JPM as collateral damage. Not really a hard decision. So sorry, Japan.
I don't know about that guy.
The first things I think whenever someone gives me financial advice is: What is he selling? and what are his current positions?
Once I get answers to those questions, everything becomes clear.
All will be well.
The Nobel Prize Winner needs cheap silver for the Tomahawks he is gifting the people of Syria.
Gift deliveries have definitely increased.
When you can rig the market at will and create currency at will, WTF do the PM prices matter?
It's fine to BTFD, but you'd better be liquid enough (have assured cashflow) to go the distance.
PMs will have value when the dollar does not.
China must be laughing, and BTFD - given the oil and PM prices. Russia, OTOH, not so much...
Given that this is messing with Russia's Revenues/Budget. Which seems to be the REAL goal: Either provoke Russia into unwinnable action, or to impoverish their Revenues (starve them financially) until Putin's regime is weakened internally.
The Neo/Zio-Cons are still a LOT tougher and craftier than ZHers give them credit for. It's fine to critique or criticize, but it's better to remain objective and not just project one's hopes and wishes - which I think is often the case here. This drama has many, many months left before it gets truly hot.
Months? Aren't you the optimist.
5 years ago I thought people were optimistic when they opined everything would collapse in 2011/2012/2013... and yet, here we are.
This shit may have years to run.
Meanwhile, my piles of shiny are just as shiny. But if I'd invested elsewhere, I could now have rather more shiny.
TPTB are - so far - winning hands down.
Seriously - how long can Assad last? He's lost most of his territory, many of his oil wells, and most of the region are doing their utmost to bring him down and turn Syria into an Oded Yinon wonderland of endless sectarian civil war.
You mean it's not collapsing? Take a look around you. Russia got their way in Ukraine. US backed off Syria intervention and is looking increasingly stupid in the Middle East trying to deal with what it has created there. The dollar is being dumped from world trade and judgind by the price action, someone is gettng ready to gine COMEX the finger.
It is collapsing at an accelerated rate. Obviously not overnight, not many people really argued for an overnight collapse, but the collapse is happening and accelerating right now.
hindsight is 20/20
I measure the value of silver in terms of its shine; the paper version has none.
Keep stacking even when the depressing times such as these kick you in the balls repeatedly.
Hell - Monster Boxes are under $10k now. If I wasn't in the middle of building farm infrastructure right now, I'd be all-in.
Corrected for inflation, this is probably a better price than when Ag was last at $12/oz.
For me, buying silver <$20/oz. has never felt like getting kicked in the balls. It's more like a discounted lap-dance.
Truer words brother
I almost want to borrow money to buy silver at such a low price, but that's probably a bad idea.
It's a bad idea if you're looking to increase the drone patrols overhead.
It's tempting. In order to keep things in perspective, I've identified certain price points where I'm planning to borrow relatively small amounts of money to make additional purchases (using our home equity credit line). The reason I'm going to do that has very little to do with increasing my long-term savings. Instead, I'm doing it because it's a way that I can exert nonviolent forces that will help to catalyze change on Earth.
Another fat finger! LOL!
All DOW components red
It always pays to wait for Options expiration before placing the stacking order. Always.
You might be right, Maggot.
Dive it down to zero bitchez and get it overwith.
From your lips to the central bankers ears.
Yep, unmanipulated markets for sure!
http://olduvai.ca
stupid question is this the price of silver metal, or silver paper?
The UK is now thinking about perhaps considering measures to make market manipultion and fraud illegal in the UK.
There's a chance that might potentially encourage US regualtors to do the same -
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-09-25/u-k-seeks-to-criminalize-manipu...
You mean it is legal? Only in a PINKO COMMIE FASCIST world!
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/price-fixing-of-gold-oil-to-become-a-cr...
DOW and NASDAQ are shitting the bed..
I love that term, "shitting the bed," It is a red neck way of making a point.
<------Low is in
<------Low is not in
For today? Maybe. I will, as always, await the Tyler's report about the bloodbath and immediately push all the chips on the table. (You notice how leery they are getting about posting such articles lately?)
No the low is not likely in.
I've dealt with many investors over the years that fixated on a fixed price to sell a stock in their portfolio. Waiting for that last nickel rise has cost some of them plenty of dollars.
If you want it, buy it. If you believe in it, buy it. IF the story changes, then sell it.
If you just watch it, you may always be watching.
Going out on a limb here: Yes, the bottom is in. Whatever the low was over the last two weeks, when they have clearly gone all in, will hold. Now, if they go full-retard and dump a gazillion paper ounces on the market at once and drive the "price" down to say $15, you won't be able to buy any at that price because it is all in strong hands. Your local store will either hang a "gone fishin'" sign on the door or charge a premium that will drive the true price to $20.
Your local store should be able to sell at the new low price unless the owner is a fool and speculating in his or her own inventory. As long as they can replace inventory they can sell at lower prices without realizing a loss. The trick is to maintain a constant inventory.
Watching the premiums (spread) is important but one should also be cognizant of delivery times. Delivery time will tell you a great deal more about actual supply and demand issues.
My LCS is already doing that. last time I was in there, spot was around 18.30 or so, and he was still selling ASEs, maples, and APHs for 23, which is what they were last time i bought some when the spot was at 20. He pretty much said thats his floor right now
Not sure if the low is in, but in the past whenever I've seen a downward spike like the one this morning in silver (look at a 5 min chart at 9:30 ET), the price has always bounced and trended up for at least a few days. Looks like it's happening again today.
I'd be wary, running all those stops puts them all on the hook for the pending drop lower and lowers the support with next liquidation order.
Additionally, today's market action seems to indicate broad based route underway. Silver will be swept away with it. I'd be pretty scared if I wasn't hedged right now.
It baffles my little mind as to why gold and silver are not in bubbles like everything else....they should be....bonds are..stocks are...why not PMs....I cant figure it out...
Shorting of the paper is outpacing the buying of the physical is what I believe.
PM's are trapped in an antibubble. An antibubble, is a pocket of liquid trapped by a film of gas. -> http://supernovacondensate.net/2010/11/18/whats-the-opposite-of-a-bubble/
Cool analogy. Thanks for that. Always nice to learn something new and interesting.
because physical silver and gold
are really money...
every thing else
is just fiat fantazy ...
Perhaps they are in bubbles.
Silver was like $2.50 an ounce 13 year ago. It went to $40.00.
Gold was around $250 an ounce 13 years ago....
You are incorrect my good friend. If you do the math you will find that going back to the price when Tricky Dickey closed the gold window, the price of gold has not even kept up with the rise in inflation. A completely bizarre circumstance, and further proof that the price of PM's is being artificially manipulated, and certainly not in a bubble. When it gets to $10,000, then maybe.
Price suggests coming out of bubble
http://blog.kimblechartingsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/silve...
Do you test the silver you get when purchasing? I have been buying from APMEX and ILB. I see tarnish on the edges of the rounds once in a while. Is that a concern?
If you do test, how do you do so?
Are you handling it without gloves ?
Yes, I have handled it without gloves.
Sweat from your hands is causing the tarnish.Does it to gold as well.
I ruined some proof coins of my grandfather that way when I was a kid.
I still remember the beating my father gave me.
Never fuck with A Swiss's PMs.
Thanks for the feedback. Sorry about the beatings. I can relate.
with silver, a magnet is usually good enough to test. gold coinage needs a scratch test with the sulfuric/nitric acid. if you buy bars, you may be gettin' fucked
Thanks. As Reagan said "Trust but verify".
I appreciate your response.
A magnet won't tell you anything. Silver plated items are made of alloys made of nickel and copper, similar to post 1965 coins. Stick a magnet on your change and nothing happens. Doesn't mean it's silver
These seem to work as well-
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=se.brolinembedded.bulliont...
Silver will tarnish. I have seen sterling that has tarnish even in a sealed sleeve. Silver plate will tarnish even faster. To test you will need a small bottle of nitric acid ( Ebay about $5) with a file make a tiny groove in the item and place a small drop of the acid on the file mark. Silver will turn the acid red. If you see any green or blue acid it is reacting to nickel or copper in the piece and this is not good
Thanks Mr. Pink...
Yes:
1) weigh them
2) measure them
3) 'ping' test them
4) compare them
5) magnet test
6) if doubts remain, nitric acid test
We'll see $10 silver in 2015
Mongo would love to see $8 silver right about February 2015 when he gets his tax return.....would seem like old times....sorta like Adam 12! What Mongo like to term PRE obombo America!
Mongo forget!
Pre Obombo America was Dubyo America.
GSR almost at 70. Will we see 75? 80?
BTFD in the Falling Knife, BackupTheTruck Contest
Buy the physical
while you still can
"We're Gonna Need a Bigger Truck!"
Since early July, the Dollar Index gained 7%, and COMEX Silver dropped 19%.
Bottom is officially in !
Thanks ZH.
High or low prices I'm a buyer of physical every month.
Next buy date in 6 days.
Buy it (with money you don't/won't need), hide it, forget about it and definitely forget about the price whether up or down.
Let everyone else play their games and have some fun. Operate at a higher level than these pricks. But then are they pricks if they keep offering you the chance at ever lower prices? Everything's possible so perhaps in a few years we'll be laughing at their stupdity and reckless behavior.
The bottom might be in for physical but paper has a long way to go yet.
Correction: "We're gonna need a bigger boat. . . "
And a deeper pond.
I diversify into multiple boats and frequent fresh as well as salt water. More boats = more boating accidents.
Went to my LCS yesterday afternoon in Phoenix.
Lots of inventory. They lowered the premium on generic silver rounds. Clerk there told me 3-4 weeks ago, when silver was @ $20 an oz, that silver might fall to $18.
Bought some at historic price (date) of $17.76 and look forward to either historic date of $16.06 or $18.65 soon. I sure hope for $50.50 but King World News is not in my immediate mindset.
Same LCS fellow said he would not be surprised if silver fell into the $16s. I will try to catch a falling knife all the way down - in small purchases - since my boat and pond is not that capacious.
Alex reporting from PHX
Who's your dealer? All the coin stores I deal with here in San Diego are completely out of stock (or they're telling me they are). I'm wondering if they don't really want to sell at these prices. The pisser is that these smackdowns happens so fast and so early that by the time I get a chance to buy, the prices have bounced off the lows.
How did you buy at 17.76 when the low was only 7.27? Your dealer must have some really low premiums.
They are out of PROFITABLE stock, crazybob.
In the back room there's $35 coins they don't want to sell at a loss?
I'm sure they are, that's why I want to know who this guy is buying from. My dealers are telling me they can sell me the stuff, but I'll have to wait 4-6 weeks. Meaning, they will take my money and order at the current prices, then deliver to me in a month or so.
I buy from Provident or JM bullion online, sure you have to wait longer but I get the rock bottom price and don't have to pay sales tax :)
The Chinese benefit greatly of this manipulated price and are probably behind it along with the too big too fail banks who are buying back the leased gold which they sold in the past few years. I think the Fed just remains passive even though higher gold price would help them with their inflation target. So don't expect a change until the Chinese and the TBTF have reached their objectives.
yes the prices are manipulated. because the money can.
trade with it, not against it.
That is called a "whale track" that revealed a Buyer as the population of sellers was inherently nuked in favor of the buyer getting great trade location. I have some ideas who the buyers are because that is his tracks.
What if knocking the price of Silver and Gold down encouraged buying at the lower prices?
What if buying increased and fiat $USD was spent on said Au, Ag?
What if all that fiat is then taken out of circulation?
What if buying subsided and so another knock down was necessary?
What if even MORE fiat $USD was taken out of circulation?
What happens when more and more fiat $USD is taken out of circulation vs. printing to infinity and beyond?
the fiat increases in value and equity markets decline.
Fiat doesn't go 'out of circulation' when you buy PMs any more than any other item; its ownership just gets transferred to the seller.
Stop the manipulation talk. This is probably a mutual or hedge fund that couldn't hold on to its SLV position any more. It is a good thing to get the weak hands out. They are still out there. My dad is still holding all his underwater positions in silver and I am sad to say he is a weak hand. I told him to buy gold instead as silver is the bitch metal.
Sorry silver bugs. It is true. It is held by the poor who will sell when times get bad. The rich hold gold and they don't sell.
Why "sorry silver bugs"? I don't give a sh!t what your stupid relatives do. I buy & hold, precisely because I have no intention of ever being poor.
Where are the Hunt brothers when you need them?
This is really remarkable that the PM prices are depressed in this economic environment, it really does smell like somebody (!?) is purposely depressing them, even in the case of constant demand for physical from China and India. Is big money really all going into real estate instead? Or Fed-inflated equities? or 400-foot yachts? or bendable iPhones?
So I estimated yesterday it would take OTOO two billion dollars to take a run at squeezing the entire silver market. The other side of the question is, how much could you profit from doing so? Well, you could end up with several thousand tons of physical silver briefly worth a nominal ten billion dollars, let's say, that you acquired for the bargain price of two billion, but the odds are that you could not unload it at ten billion dollars, the price would fall back down to an un-manipulated four billion, and even unloading the physical at that price might take a year. So, on the trade itself, maybe double your money in a year. Not bad. And you could probably make another two billion during the runup as your excess paper contracts went up in value as well. So conservatively a squeeze could triple a two-billion dollar investment. Let's do it!
I've had the same thought myself, but I would pick up a shit-ton of options contracts on miners before I picked up the metal. If you could get the price of silver even to 25 bucks you could double all those options without a problem. There are many individuals who could make this happen, not to mention institutions. I am also surprised Putin hasn't done this, since he seems like a guy who likes to have a good time.
You are missing one important point: there is no way those contracts would ever be settled in phys silver. It is simply not available, so they would just settle it in dollars. It's already been done (forget the name of the bank, AmBro or something like that). Also, I believe that one of the reasons for the manipulation of these markets is to get the physicals into the hands of some big players, at reduced pricing (China, JP Morgan). Only when they have acquired all the PMs they need, at the lowest possible prices, will the price be allowed to rise. Until then, the futures market is just a sucker's game, because no one has enough money to go up against these guys.
But that's exactly the point, you don't have to corner the paper market at all, you only have to squeeze the physical market that is so much smaller. Only it's not that small really, if the numbers posted here the other day are correct, there is a LOT of physical silver out there if anybody really wants it. So I'm estimating a squeeze based only on the 2,500 tons per year typically used for coins/bullion. There's 10x as much out there without too much effort, but I think if you presented a demand for "only" about 7,000 tons, you'd have your squeeze. I don't even know how many paper contracts there are out there, way too many I hope and that's exactly why we could pick them up cheap and get this rolling.
And if they can't get the physical silver to deliver sure they can settle in dollars but only at the squeezed price, and that's just fine, in fact it's even better and you can happily offer them a 50% discount!
The Gold to Silver ratio is about 70:1. Therefore, I want to buy more silver than gold? Is this correct? ty
70:1 Yeah, that's truly outrageous. Can only imagine devreased industrial demand is a significant factor. I'm buying silver any way I can, as often as I can. Lately I have access to pre-1964 junk at 14 x face value, yileding silver at approximately spot price.
It ain't perfect & it's not pretty, but I'm not complaining.
Ratios have two sides by nature can't point at one side alone.
Silver gold ratio is 16 to 1 based on natural in ground %
Price is not bound by that ratio.
The g/s ratio was 16 to 1 for about 1 day in the last 100+ years. I am not sure waiting for 16 to one is a good strategy. Just saying.
Right there is no return to 16:1 but is see people talking like and doing the math as if 70:1 means something , silver has to rise to get there again
Not true
We are blessed to have such a fair and efficiently run market. [sarcasm]
We are approaching 70 on the g/s ratio. Woah, that is a big number. 31 is like a faint memory.
silver eagles premiums are like $3! lol
Wanna know why the GSR is at 70 to 1?
Bankers hold lots of gold. Silver, nada.
That's all you need to know.
At least one other gets it.
So Gold up Silver down 25 cents...time to nibble a little more
Okay, I love to knock on the silverites. But let me mention something serious. There has been a major breakout on the g/s ratio after it was range-bound in the 58-66 range for over a year. You may want to ask yourself before buying more silver what it means. The last time the ratio was this high was a major crisis. The time before that was 2001-2002.
So......*don't* buy silver?.........
It is performed terribly in each economic downturn. Is the g/s ratio prognosticating a downturn....maybe. QE dollars end next month.
That's why they're beating the shit out of it this month. If it does take off, it will be from a lower level, mitigating the spike. The PPT/Stabilization fund will take it from there.
I just noticed that the gold/platinum ratio has had a good move up through today. Not sure what it means.
Large traders line in red. Silver
http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=SI&p=d1
Price follows the large traders wheat below
http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=ZW&p=d1
Me thinks Putin is behind this. Keep it up buddy! My bonus will be here in 10 days!
It is just weird that with how expesnsive all this everyday crap we buy is but PM''s are just sinking. I feel like i'm taking crazy pills!
Luckily, i will retire AFTER all this TRANSITORY banker bullshit & geopolitical shenanigins.
oh, what's an Empire to do? ...
I've noticed a significant increase in the down votes for digital currency. This is a big turnaround from a year ago.
I'm glad to see many of you are finally coming to your senses.
Posted this yesterday......
Wed, 09/24/2014 - 21:13 | 5254179Quaderratic Probing
Perfect time for a naked short about 400 tons, 3 strikes on the chart the computers will see it and flush. All stop losses will kick in to finish the job.
Tick tock...
Can anyone tell me where to get Silver Eagles cheap very close to spot in NJ or NY ?
Thanx