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Colorado Kush Rush Continues: Marijuana Store Survey 10 Months On
In June, ConvergEx's Nick Colas sized up the legal recreational marijuana market in Colorado by surveying several storeowners and their employees. Today he offers an update after circling back with these sources to get a grasp on the business 10 months into its legal tenure. On the whole, Colas notes that the marijuana business continues to be robust: stores are still seeing about 100-300 customers a day, who are still spending $50 to $100 per transaction. With stable pricing at about $40-$50 for an eighth ounce, and $300-$400 for an ounce, we estimate the 200 state-licensed marijuana stores in Colorado have raked in $252 million from January 1st through September; factoring the newly licensed 46 stores as of October 1st, we estimate revenue for 2014 totaling $355 million. Why should the rest of us care? Between excise and retail taxes, marijuana businesses in Colorado should generate upwards of $100 million in taxes for the year; the state alone should reap $35.5 million from the 10% sales tax. This Colorado experiment is growing into a mature market that offers a handsome stream of revenue to both businesses and the state. Sure, there are a few headwinds like any startup industry endures, but this continues to be a fascinating case study of a new – and quite profitable – business.
Via ConvergEx's Nick Colas,
Note from Nick: It’s not often that you get to witness a new industry take shape, so we are paying close attention to the legalization of marijuana in states like Colorado. Today Jessica updates her first note on the topic with fresh channel checks and shows the industry is growing in a number of novel ways.
As I was listening to the radio on my way to work this week, the hosts highlighted a new study that found September is the second “fattest” month of the year behind December: dieters gain an average of 2 pounds in September and 4 lbs. in December. One such reason provided by the hosts was early buying of Halloween candy and the propensity to sneak into the secret stash stowed away for October 31st. Seems a little early, but month aside, it’s hard to deny fall as the “fattest” season, and Halloween certainly kicks off the subsequent couple months of treats and feasting.
In the spirit of All Hallows’ Eve now that it’s just around the corner, how does a dark chocolate bar with Oreo crumbles and vanilla bone candies sound? While considered a largely child’s holiday, this “Graveyard bar” will certainly not be available for the pillowcases of trick-or-treaters, at least I’d hope not. This is just one cannabis infused product being offered this month in a recreational marijuana store in none other than Colorado. And if you’re more of a Casper the friendly ghost type, they’re offering a Candy Corn bar as well.
All “treats” aside, these cannabis infused edibles represent unique product offerings that differentiates the budding business of recreational marijuana from the illegal black market. In June, soon after sales of recreational marijuana were legalized in the state of Colorado, we interviewed several stores to ascertain this newly legal market. We recently circled back to our contacts and found that while smokeables remain most popular, edibles are another growing and important part of their product mix, and one that is hard to come by from dealers on the street. A few points here:
Some stores buy edibles from vendors, and others make baked goods in-house. The benefit of buying from vendors is that they are tested for potency. With the increased scrutiny and impending new regulations on edibles, it’s the safer and easier route.
Products span from chocolate, cookies, and chews, to elixirs, chill pills, and concentrates. Our contacts noted brownies as most popular, of course, with gummies close behind.
One trend gaining swift traction, also according to our contacts, is the use of vaporizers. These typically come in the form of vape pens that are used with wax, oil, or dry flowers for example—mostly odorless, they provide a more discreet means of experiencing the effects of cannabis.
While interest in edibles and vaporizers continues to develop in Colorado, how is the recreational marijuana business faring as a whole since legalization took effect on January 1st? Our surveys of storeowners and employees demonstrate that this novel business is growing into a mature industry.
Pricing has remained stable since our interviews in June at about $40-$50 for an 1/8 ounce, and $300-$400 for an ounce (plus tax). The consumer base and their spending habits have also remained steady: stores still report seeing between 100 to 300 customers per day, who spend $50-$100 dollars per visit on average. And of course, each shop continues to sell top shelf and connoisseur products which helps support their price premiums over the black market—the average street price for high quality marijuana in Colorado on the crowdsourcing site, priceofweed.com, stands at $238. Evidently, business has not dissipated since the flurry of excitement regarding legalization last January.
Recreational marijuana stores were able to maintain stable and high pricing, in part, due to the 9-month period in which they were afforded exclusive state licenses. This grandfathering period expired this week, and 46 state-licenses were granted to marijuana stores in addition to the 200 already in business. These new entrants will create pricing pressure, so marijuana businesses will need to adjust to a more competitive marketplace.
Some survey respondents are looking to expand, with one receiving a second license to open a new store this week, and others entertaining additional grow facilities. Regulations, however, continue to contain expansion efforts by many of the marijuana stores we interviewed.
The general consensus among our contacts is that business is steady or rising from when sales of recreational marijuana were first legalized. While lines may not be out the door as they were in January, storeowners and their employees reported improved efficiency in processes and better flow. It seems these stores are hitting their stride.
We size the recreational marijuana market in Colorado at $252 million from January 1st through September. To reach this number, we factored in the 200 licensed recreational marijuana stores during that time period, the reported number of average customers and transaction sizes from our survey respondents, and the fact that most stores are open 7 days a week. When accounting for the 46 recreational shops granted licenses this week, we estimate revenues will total $355 million in 2014.
These estimates may seem steep, but let’s work our way backwards from some public figures. The Colorado Department of Revenue reported collecting $2.97 million in taxes on recreational cannabis sales in July. The state taxes these sales at a rate of 10%, so this would suggest $29.7 million in revenue for the month of July. If sales are as consistent as our survey respondents suggest, simple math would add up to $356 million in revenue for the year. And this calculation does not factor in the 46 new shops now in business for the remaining quarter.
No doubt recreational marijuana dispensaries are raking in the proceeds, but where are they putting all the cash? In most other businesses, one would not hesitate to hazard “A bank”. Yet under the Federal government’s Controlled Substances Act, manufacturing, distributing, or dispensing marijuana remains illegal. Thus, a bank servicing a dispensary knowingly could be charged with money laundering, conspiring to distribute marijuana, or acting as an accessory, to name a few charges. These criminal penalties prompt hefty fines and years of prison time. Given the legalization of medical marijuana in 23 states and the District of Columbia, and legalization of recreational marijuana in Colorado and Washington, how is the industry addressing this important issue?
In short, the lack of bank services to marijuana dispensaries continues to act as a strong headwind for the marijuana industry, despite attempts towards solutions by the government. The Justice Department responded last year by sending a memo to all U.S. attorneys that identified eight guidelines for which prosecutions of marijuana offenses in states where sales of cannabis are legal should follow. Some of these “Federal law enforcement priorities” include preventing sales to minors, revenue from going to criminals, diversion of the drug to states where it is not legal, and drugged driving or “adverse public health consequences”. (Please find the other priorities in the link at the end of this note).
Despite the existence of a set of standards, they prove largely meaningless in real-world conditions: “This memorandum is not intended to, does not, and may not be relied upon to create any rights, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law by any party in any matter civil or criminal. It applies prospectively to the exercise of prosecutorial discretion in future cases and does not provide defendants or subjects enforcement action with a basis for reconsideration of any pending civil action or criminal prosecution.” This memo leaves banks in precarious relationships, whereby they serve dispensaries at their own peril. More questions were created than answered, in addition to more ground for prosecution and burdensome compliance implications.
The Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) also gave some guidelines that mandated banks to file a Suspicious Activity Report (SAR) if a customer violates any of its “red flags”. These red flags include interstate activity, criminal records, efforts to mask involvement in the cannabis business, or a failure to provide sufficient documentation (other red flags are in the link following this note). By identifying these violations, banks can classify dispensaries as “marijuana limited” or “marijuana priority”. “Marijuana priority” are those who have violated one of the eight priorities listed by the DOJ.
In August, the Director of FinCEN noted an inflow of 502 SARs identified as “Marijuana Limited” and 123 SARs as “Marijuana Priority”. Overall, “there are currently 105 individual financial institutions from states in more than one third of the country engaged in banking relationships.” With that said, 475 SARs were marked with “Marijuana Termination”. In other words, many banks are distancing themselves from servicing marijuana businesses.
Given this information and our survey work, we know that some banks and credit unions are providing their services to marijuana-related businesses. Respondents to our survey said there are local banks and credit unions that offer accounts to dispensaries. However, other interviewees mentioned the caveat that this relationship does not last long…or until the bank figures out it is servicing a dispensary. Many contacts were unable to even broach the subject given its touchy nature.
Consequently, a weighty share of dispensaries is forced to hold stacks of cash in safes, putting storeowners, and employees at heightened risk for robberies. Accounts of theft have included both the stealing of cash and cannabis. Therefore, survey respondents emphasized the significant security used at shops to protect the cash and cannabis, including safes and video surveillance. We were not able to interview one store we called because the employee who answered couldn’t be on the phone as he watched the door. Every shop is always on high alert.
On a lighter and societal level, legalization of recreational marijuana has broadened consumer demographics. The typical customer does not fit the young burnout stereotype you may have seen in Dazed and Confused, or dozing off in the back of your former high school classroom for that matter. In fact, one store employee stated emphatically: “We have no average customer.”
While this was a clever response from a marketing angle, it touches upon a broader theme: legal recreational marijuana businesses in Colorado have attracted a base of consumers who most likely wouldn’t have ventured into the black market prior to legalization.
Survey respondents said the age of customers spanned from 21 all the way to one’s 90s, with some stores citing concentration among those in their 20s to 40s. Legalization opened up a whole new base of those purchasing the drug, and our contacts said these individuals come from all walks of life and from all over the world. One employee even described some customers who are middle-aged men as “a kid in a candy store”—hence the Halloween themed edibles.
And for stores that only sold medical marijuana prior to legalization of its recreational counterpart, they have received a new batch of customers and means to diversify their business.
In terms of fiscal policy, sales of recreational marijuana have generated a generous revenue stream to the government by way of taxes. Retail taxes add up to 12.9%, while a 15% excise tax is applied at the wholesale level. In fact, the first $40 million collected by the excise tax is devoted to the Colorado state school construction fund on an annual basis. Given these sales and excise taxes and our revenue estimates, we believe tax revenue could total just shy of $100 million through year-end.
This tax revenue estimate may seem steep, but remember, the Colorado Department of Revenue reported the state collected $2.97 million in taxes at the 10% rate for July. Again, steady sales and simple math suggests total sales taxes for this year totaling $35.6 million. If we parse our revenue estimate to just factoring in the 10% sales tax to the state, we get about $35.5 million for the year as well. When accounting for recreational marijuana’s contribution of $5.2 million in sales and excise taxes (less the contribution of sales taxes from medical marijuana), tax revenue adds to $62 million—a bit under our estimate, but not too far off the mark.
Overall, the people we spoke to working at recreational marijuana stores in Colorado felt they were on the “cutting edge”. We zeroed in on the Colorado market because it is more developed than Washington’s, but both are on the brink of a promising growth industry in its preliminary stages. Come November 4th, other states will vote to legalize marijuana for either medical or recreational uses as well, including Alaska, the District of Columbia, Florida, Guam, and Oregon. Thus far, recreational marijuana stores in Colorado have proved lucrative investments. Even still, we’ll have to stay tuned to see how regulatory hurtles are overcome and how the marketplace expands and welcomes new competition—we’ll keep you posted.
I’ll sum up using the words of our contacts spoken on at least two occasions: “We’re just really happy it’s legalized here in Colorado”. That’s all well and good, but just keep an eye on the scale this fall with all those themed edible marijuana treats.
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We will not rest until meth is also legal!!! Teeth are over-rated.
Nick "Colas"
Tee hee...
Selling weed now passes for economic development. Pathetic.
Why pathetic? It's just another consumer product.
Proactive crowd control ... the elites banned it, imprisoned millions, and only consider backing up on that vector because things are going down hill very fast.
Best to keep the masses at home, on EBT, and stoned out of their gourds.
Regards,
Cooter
Better herb than mother's/brother's/ sister's little helper!
Next big target market: Stoned Moms
http://www.planbeconomics.com/2014/09/stoned-moms-the-marijuana-industry...
It’s probably a lot cheaper to keep the Sheeples passive if they simply lace the drinking water with a cocktail of Xanax, lithium and oxycodone.
Or flouride.
the problem is not bringing in the stuff... ...but what to do with all the fucking cash!
This is why I support marijuana legalization
http://youtu.be/XHet6oUQXbk
(10 seconds)
Im baked.
That is a problem that a lot of other businesses wish they had.
The people like the stuff anyway. It's like a win-win situation.
/s
Too expensive. They've got the masses paying for their own SOMA.
Notice how Oxy was made SOOOOO available at the time that Heroin was hard to get (what with the Taliban wiping out Poppy felds). Now, after the US has been in Afghanistan for over a decade, there's been a crackdown on prescription writing - and a massive increase in heroin use as former Oxy users look for an alternative. Get 'em hooked on nice 'legal' prescriptions - then cut bck the supply and fore users over to Heroin - gotta make sure there are users for the massive increase in supply.
Not sure where this guy buys his pot. My recent trip last week to my medical marijuana provider had 1/8's selling between $15 and $25 bucks. Gram concentrates sold between $35 and $50. Ounce bags of smoke sold between $95 and $165. And prices have come down since last year. Found Denver cheaper than Colorado Springs. Competition is driving the price down. Just as a functioning capitalist system should do. I predict that half the stores now will be out of business next year or the prices will be cut in half.
If he is paying the prices stated in this article he is getting ripped off.....
Does this mean that people are going to stop growing their own?
The law passed by the people of Colorado provided for growing up to 10 plants per household, tax free, in any enclosed locked area.
I didn't inhale...
Yeah, Cooter, you've been pissing that meme about Marijuana out of your twat for a while now, it's always been the same: you actually think marijuana makes one less aware, incapable, and literally unable to leave the home or have any purpose in life. It's really getting old, because it's entirely inaccurate.
Have you ever smoked weed? There's not one, single thing bad about it. Need I say nontoxic, cures cancer, and medicinal for hundreds of ailments? Shit, I could even go so far as to say that it encourages spiritual and emotional growth by breaking down barriers. And you still couldn't disprove me, because it would be true. Go ahead, I challenge you to disprove me.
I'd say marijuana is a great igniter for radical change.
Hate to beat a dead horse, but hell, have some fucking honor about the basic facts and grow up.
Actually yes. Been around stoners who all think they are intellectually superior after taking a bong hit. When everyone is stoned, they all think they are more aware and capable, just like a drunk. The only person who can see the folly in their thinking is the person who isn't stoned. I watched many people succumb to the effects of Marijuana in college. Guys who started out as great students who ended up dropping out after pot went from a recreational habit to a near hourly need. Wasting a $40k a year education.
Marijuana has many medical benefits that can be realized without getting high. To say someone smokes weed to cure an illness they don't have is dishonest. Like a guy swilling Bud Light because he says he likes the taste. My cousin fucked up his life forever because at 13 getting high became priority #1. He can't hold a job, is failing every class, and has a record for multiple B&E after trying to steal stuff to pay for pot. His brain is so fried it is like talking to a stupid dog.
Spiritual growth comes from honest introspection, not through mind altering substances. The basic facts are Marijuana has benefits, but so does alcohol. In moderation both can be good for you, the problem is most people are not using them for the health benefits. However like you they will cite the health benefits as justification for the simple fact they just want to get high.
I recently visited some friends in Colorado a few weeks back and of course we had to try it out. Its been thirty years for me but I was a pretty heavy user in the day, dabbled in dealing and the whole bit. Absolutely everyone who is a regular user thinks they have reached some elevated level of understanding or "clear".
We sat around a fire late at night, high in the mountains, I took one hit of the bong, and was set back on my heals. This shit was a bonafide drug. No buzz, no calming high. Simply blasted out of my mind (which maybe just doesn't take all that much these days). Eventually we attempted some conversation that was frequently interrupted by laughter and silence, but did all agree we had all reached some new high of understanding, especially of the rotational qualities of the heavens.
In the morning we awoke to the same old fucked up world we had escaped briefly the night before. The one positive I realized was that I didn't smell like a shit fire from smoking a lid to get high...one short toke of the bong was all it took.
Legalize the shit...I don't care. Just don't blow it up my ass like it is some great path to utopia. Its dope. If you want to be high, go for it. Just don't come knocking on my door looking for help or anything else. Make your delusional world and live in it. Its hope and change we can believe in, just ask the choomer-in-chief.
Pot smokers are more creative than drunks, but your allegories are valid. But you can say that about any addictive substance/ behavior. Prohibition is not the answer. Adjusting consciousness is.
Isn't that why people do drugs and booze...to adjust their consciousness?
No, to numb their consciousness.
It's becoming a legal defense too.
http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2014/10/tsarnaev...
I have zero first hand experience smoking it myself but I remember vividly a fairly good high school friend who smoked weed at a so-called “pot party” and jumped out the 3rd story window thinking he was pretty invulnerable. Luckily it was only 3 stories (about 30 feet) but landed him in the hospital for a month and screwed up his high school graduation timing badly.
Any hint of an interest I might have had before that disappeared pretty quickly after hearing about his ‘experience.’
And BTW, jailing non-violent pot smokers needs very serious re-thinking, esp when we should be saving space for violent criminals.
He would probably have made it if he had just taken a couple more hits and flapped his wings harder.
Mind over matter baby!
Yup, I remember a frat guy when I was at college who decided to get drunk, do some stupid shit, and fall face first into some concrete, and wound up in a coma for several months. Do you drink? Alcohol can fuck you up, but it is legal.
Anything could have been in that joint. PCP perhaps?
Obviously we need better regulation of drugs.
...well you friend is a dumb ass.........probably hopped up on alcohol.
Your friend smoked PCP dipshit. The only way somewhere would jump out a window on weed would be to get to a Taco Bell. Are we still having these discussions? Really? How about you worry about the war on Christmas and let the adults worry about what we put in our bodies. Mmmmkkkkk!
I've seen too many people get fucked up on things that people claim are just fine and I've seen people come out and do just fine on things that were supposed to fuck them up. Meth and heroin? Sure, don't touch that shit. The people that I've known who were fourthcoming about their use of that shit and got off of it either did it once and only once, or they have some very fucked stories. Weed? Yeah, I've known far too many people who made a habit of smoking it for a while, then went on to do something. I've only tried it once personally, and I didn't like it, but I've known quite a few people that did like it, did use it a lot, and they're just fine.
And if you have cancer, and weed mellows you or kills your pain or whatever, I don't see a difference between wanting to get high and a medical use. It's not some all-curing substance, but fuck, can't getting high have its own medical uses?
(Full disclosure - I think it should be 100% legal, period. Otherwise, we go down the path of kicking down doors because somebody might want to get high. With guns in the hands of paranoid trigger happy government agents who are taught that everything is a threat.)
BS. Your brother just can't handle his addiction problem. Plain and simple. I have been smoking marijuana since I was 15 or 16. I graduated college, have a nice engineering job, and still get high. I just didn't make it priority #1 like your brother and friends. Sure, I've seen people do the same thing, but you can't blame a harmless plant. Those people just have addiction problems and should have sought help. Pot doesn't make people stupid or fry your brain either, they accomplish that feat on their own, or have other drug addictions. Its not marijuana's fault. Blaming a plant because people are weak and can't handle themselves is silly to me. Everyone looooooves telling others what is right and just, as if they are the moral police. Everything you describe is a problem of the individual and has nothing to do with pot. If pot fried your brain, how did I manage to smoke for 17ish years and still furthering my career? By your judgement I should be drooling on the couch watching cartoons. Proves yet again that is is all in the individual.
Marijuana is the only thing that levels me out and calms me down. When I am agitated or high strung, it slows down my thought process so I can think more clearly. I have one strain with lots of CBD and CBN that is great before bed. If I am having trouble sleeping I hit that a couple times and I am sleeping within 30 minutes. This is what it does for me, for others it could be totally different. An ex I had back in college just fell asleep if she smoked a few hits no matter the strain. It has a totally different effect for everyone. Smoke enough potent weed and will be sort of euphoric and altering. The only drawback I get from pot is munchies.
Are you a vampire? Obviously, when you look in the mirror, you see nothing. Let us parse just two sentences from your infinite EZ-Bake wisdom:
Followed (after some inane dissembling) by:
You don't even realize it, do you? Maybe that condition you are supposedly remedying is related to the first quote. Your claimed success in life might merely be an example of high functioning mediocrity. What if you might have been truly exemplary? Nope - dope wins again...
This article has left me dazed... and confused.
But seriously, how does THC (marijuanna psychoactive ingredient) work? As it turns out, THC binds to receptors in the brain that otherwise are only active IN THE MOTHER's WOMB! After birth, these receptors are mostly inactive.
So, apparently, weed gives us that warm, safe feeling we don't consciously remember of being in the womb.
I'm personally not a weed smoker, but to each his own. The criminalization of hemp is a tragedy. I think hemp is a wonder plant and that it's psychoactive proerties are the least of what it has to offer us.
I just wonder how much radical change has been instigated by fetuses.
Nothing worse than an evangalist... whether it be television, climate change, and now marijuana...
it is so much more than a consumer product.
The plant is likely the most useful to humans on the planet. But, in bud form, it's mostly a consumer product, with the medical exception, of course.
Yeah why pathetic? Your opinions incite such intellectual fervor!
I have no problem with pot. But this, like gambling, is being sold as a positive economic development. If you want pot, grow it. But a strong culture cannot be built on growing weed and building casinos.
So what do YOU consider as positive economic development?
I'm guessing anything taxable ... it's the anti-corporate drug, so I get the vitrol among those who consider themsleves "management."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1oFcgLfgV0
Right up there with State controlled casinos and the lottery.
80 years of " this is bad, so it's illegal" and then the state figures out how to collect a buck, and it's ok now.
Prostitution is next. With state inspectors going around checking on the goods, ( for our well being, of course)
I predict, in 10 years or so at this rate, you will be able to go to a state sponsored outlet, get high, get laid and gamble to your hearts content.
And,oh yeah, NO SMOKING or no Big Gulps. Bad for your health, don't ya know.
"Warm smell of colitas rising up thru the air" Eagles
Fixed it. Why the downarrows?
wake me up when Cali is recreational.
meth is legal, from a pharma-Cyst
and anyway, so what if the workers in the Prison Industrial Complex face layoffs as the owners of those companies face steep revenue declines.
FUCK THEM!
they're government workers by proxy, we hate them, right?!??!
Daves not here man...
I'm surprised it took this long to reference Cheech and Chong!
Don't let greed overcome morality.
Ironically weed is horrible on the environment. Lots of psuedo hippies think they are doing well by over fertilizing the rivers and streams, using tons of energy via lights, and using massive amounts of fresh water for their crops.
The ignorance, that abounds on this blog now, is staggering!
It's hemp!
Is this your first fight? Or do you just like throwing jabs into the crowd....because I am not sure who you are but we don't need to over think the names of the plant. WHat you want to call hemp I could call pot, weed, herb, and a litany of others.
Yeah I posted before I saw your next post. But hemp could be an ally ecologically and economically. It has so many uses and grows like a weed. Now, I wonder how much water a brewery uses per ( I don't know) hour of high? Plus the fertilizers used for hops,barley etc. Your statement doesn't hold water to me.
"grows like a weed" now i know you're full of shit. what you're growing shit for industrial use? or you think that kush just grows itself by accident?
It's the easiest plant I've ever grown, despite the intense competition. Of course, I may pay a little more attention to my money bushes than tomatoes, so there is that bias. SmackDaddy, I've been around growing it for 25 yrs. I may be full of shit about some things, but not this.
It really does grow like a weed. Sure, there's a few tricks to the trade, and they're trying to make it all seedless so they can cut out the grow-at-home crowd, but nearly anyone can grow some really good shit with no more effort than an ordinary house plant.
Most growers I know are all about sharing seed or clones ( $10 a pop). It's just with seeds, you're never quite sure what you might get.
Yeah, you gotta pick seeds carefully. You can usually tell which ones are better by size, the larger the better. The best way is to use seeds from buds you liked when you smoked.
The clones are the way to keep customers from growing their own. Clones don't seed, so they can't pick out the seeds and plant them.
@ toady..haha, yeah it's called feminized seeds, they have been cultivated that way so you don't pop a dude- been around for quite a while now.
Today's modern strains represents horticulture at it's finest, actually the process back fertilizes a hermaphroditic female to produce the feminized seed, fem seeds always sell at a premium because it lets the little guy not bother with culling.
The product is more potent today because all modern bud is raised as sensimillia meaning no seeds are formed putting more energy in trichome production.
Most of the mid sixties to the nineties stuff on the streets was grown including seeds in large fields south of the border and abroad so it wasn't as potent as modern strains.
..try dry screening the kief off if you want to lower the buzzzz effect, it works wonders to take the thc edge off; but what's more important is to allow a proper ripening which costs time, something commercial growers simply cannot consider for the most part- after all time is money and it's on a timed bloom cycle.
Home grown on the other hand can be treated like craft beer.
On the tax issue I object to the hypocrisy on parade, no increase in taxes period- the beast needs no further encouragement.
The one benefit of it being taxed is that taxes are the heroin of government. There will be no backtracking on legality once the state gets a taste!
That might be a pragmatic way of looking at it but my core instinct says no more taxes, no matter how good the cause.
Control over others is the true heroin of politics, those seeking control over another committing no harm become increasingly statist and everyone going to Washington suffers the need to grow their power- that means selling someone out.
Giving more money and influence to a political whore is like giving hookers, blow and booze to ..well a politician I guess.
.."When a new source of taxation is found it never means in practice that an old source is abandoned. It merely means that the politicians have two ways of milking the taxpayer where they had only one before".. H L Mencken.
..nothing changes.
I grow it in a greenhouse and the water I use is light compared to the massive pivot sprnklers used for alfalfa around here. I water every 2 days with about 3 gallon per plant. I also use organic fertilizers and concentrate on soil development.
3 gallons per plant?
Jesus, what size container are you using?
Thank you JuanGrande, you're right. The ignorance is staggering. I wonder where these disphits originate.
In its beginning, this blog was occupied by true rebel mentality. Minds were open, dogma was limited, and people were respectful; kind of like the book Tyler et.al. were taken from ( well maybe not the respectful part). Now, it's mostly bullshit teaparty/ dem liberal political wannabes calling names at each other like it's some form of machismo, at least the comment makers.
I rarely involve myself anymore in comments, until I can't help myself. But even then, I refrain from engaging in assinine mud slinging. I try not to attack personalities, only ideas.
There's been a lot of penetration by government &
industry/banking/WallStreet/KrugmanHive trolls in the last year or so.
I'm thankful ZH has the technical & financial proficiency and means to have safeguarded their servers from the DOS and other attempted cyber attacks that I know are being launched with increasing regularity.
Ok. That was a general attack on personalities. But individually, I refrain.
The personalities are ownwd by individuals who do regard your comments as insulting to them, personally. So the effect is the same
Touche! But have you seen some of the 100 replies subthreads calling each other names?
It's easy to slam people who have a different opinion simply because they've been trapped in the matrix their entire lives. I think a lot of the "dipshits" migrated here once Drudge began linking to ZH and Rush began mentioning it on his show. And don't get me wrong; some of these folks still seem misguided, but the fact that someone even dares to make an account on this site speaks to the fact that he or she wants to learn and is open to other points of view. They saw something that made them want to stick around, which means they're a whole hell of a lot less ignorant than they were before they got here, and orders of magnitude more informed than the average person you meet on the street.
We've all been in their shoes to some extent, at least I know I have. Give them time, and most of them will become rabid State-hating quasi-anarchists like the rest of us.
Drudge grinds the prohibitionist axe, I agree with you- if someone by osmosis stumbles into enlightenment who can complain which door they came in from?
"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds"..
Frank Zappa
"They saw something that made them want to stick around"
There are a lot of refreshing posts on this site even though lately there might be a lower signal to noise ratio.
Spot on here. Infowars links articles to zerohedge fairly often, and that's how I found it. I'm glad I did, because I started to really dislike infowars. But I've been learning a ton about markets and finance in general, and the plauge that it is upon our planet.
Greed is antithesis to morality. You know, seven deadly sins. But, please explain the immorality of pot, especially in the context of all consumerism. I'm so curious.
I hardly partake anymore, but I remember being around people, back when, who would have been serious social problems w/o their smoke.
The weed being sold these days is much too strong for my 1968 head.
I got my wife some weed in 2011 for chemo side effects, and she asked if I would smoke some too, (she had never tried it, being from what was Czechoslovakia when she escaped).
Back in the 60's-70's-80's it was a nice mellow head.
The stuff around now is too intense, I don't like it.
Disclosure: I quit using pot in 89, when the baby became aware of her surroundings.
in 2006, a soon to be mrs. questions the second came with a bong, right there on the coffee table.
visually took me back to '89
head was way beyond
then the nuptials
try the vapors BBM, game changer.
Try Harlequin.
No love for the Harlequin? Most folk who aren't into feeling like they were just put into an induced coma like the more balanced CBD/THC strains. Way more mellow. Perfect for puttering around and actually accomplishing things on a nice relaxing day.
Yes, it is strong, but in the end you consume smaller amounts of it. These days it's better to vaporize the thing, even a single pull from a joint is enough for most folks.
Yeah, it is too strong for me too. I smoked when I was younger and enjoyed being "high" but never liked being "stoned". I just don't use at all anymore (many years) because it is a race to the strongest they can make it.
I grow outdoor and we can't hold on to the product. Selling it as fast as we harvest.
It sounds like you're one of those psuedo-hippies you were just complaining about.
Contradict yourself much?
Soul Glow is a limber dick cock sucker.
I predict a good gig for Obola. Endorsing the Choom bag, $500.
Obola prefers big fat Philies. Laced.
we have edibles, vapors and the real.
god bless freedom (thanks for reminding us to work for it)
god bless Colorado!
now, where's my scotch?!?
That is $ 14 000 a kilo .
Compared to gold $38 000 a kilo .
For a weed ?
Something is unstable here .
A crocodile farm will nicely complete the business : security , as well as product enhancement .
See http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2010/09/crocodile-high.html
You can't smoke gold!
Well, there used to be Acapulco Gold....
Before the GLD launched (2004) premium pot was more expensive than gold.
"The Pursuit of Happiness" is obsolete, uneconomic.
How many jobs were lost for police, prosecutors, and prisons? Not very many as long as neighboring states are patrolling aggressively!
I've heard that the Man sits on CO borders licking his piggy chops. Pot prohibition is sooo stupid!
Legalized weed sounds good until big pharma gets involved and Monsanto makes a suicide marijuana seed.
For 40 yrs., pot growers have been the only true American rebels. The hell that they'd let that happen!
My media consumption is equivalent to putting two car subs right on top of this desk and eminem blasting.
Listen up you dope smoking hippies. There is a time and place for smoking marijuana and it's called college.
LOL where u been? its middle school through college
Bunch of idiot potheads.
He says as he sips his scotch....
Which is funny because you may be allowed to grow, but I am not allowed to distill (without costly licensing). No one seems upset about that though.
Tizzzz the Season to be Jolly...
Fa...la...um...la...ah...laa...la..ah...what now...oh yeah...la...la...la...la.
So just to play Devils Advocate...
at what age will you start giving all the weed they want to your Kids ?
You don't think kids can get what they want? You think a law keeps that from happening?
I don't "give" anything to my kids. They can buy whatever they can afford, or whatever someone is willing to front on credit.
Actually, you gave them the need to smoke it, if they do. Parents are, by far, the most responsible for kid's behavior, genetically and behaviorally. I once read that personality was 90% developed by age 4.
A recent Pew Research Center poll found that for the first time a majority of Americans favor legalizing the use of marijuana. Indiana Governor Mike Pence is not among them. With the rest of the United States moving towards relaxing marijuana laws, Indiana seems to be bravely marching into the past.
The Hoosier State's penalties for marijuana are getting tougher after Gov. Mike Pence requested, and was granted stricter laws for low-level cannabis offenders. They have gone so far as proposing that felony charges for possession be extended down to cover one-third of an ounce of marijuana, More on how tough Indiana has become in the article below.
http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2013/07/indiana-marijuana-laws-step-back-...
Indiana, the true center of rational thought! It's the Aristotle state, right? I'd lke to see an age/race demographic of Indiana. It wasn't long ago CO was the same. However, the old farmers/ranchers have been overrun.
The Hoosier State- birthhome to the Klan..
..figures.
I love the clan... Nothing happens in my neck of the backwoods. I really do need to get my picture taken with the local grandmaster...
:)
It sounds like you have been reading this year's ballot proposals. If memory serves, the first $40M is supposed to go to building new schoool. Pueblo wants an 8% excise tax on unprocessed marijuana PLUS an additional 4.3% sales tax. This is on top of last's years;s taxes, though they are not supposed to exceed 15% total. This is suposed to raise about a million dollars for the city. They've lost most of the marijuana fines, and so want a half-percent increase in the sales tax to replace that money to fund the police. I'd consider that if civil forfeiture was terminated.
My guess is that the optimal tax rate on gambling is no more than 10%, because then the negative expectation games get even worse very, very quickly.
Social experiment is fun!
It sounds like you have been reading this year's ballot proposals. If memory serves, the first $40M raised at the state level is supposed to go to building new schools. Pueblo wants an 8% excise tax on unprocessed marijuana PLUS an additional 4.3% sales tax. This is on top of last's years;s taxes, though they are not supposed to exceed 15% total. This is suposed to raise about a million dollars for the city. They've lost most of the marijuana fines, and so want a half-percent increase in the sales tax to replace that money to fund the police. I'd consider that if civil forfeiture was terminated.
My guess is that the optimal tax rate on gambling is no more than 10%, because then the negative expectation games get even worse very, very quickly.
It sounds like you have been reading this year's ballot proposals. If memory serves, the first $40M raised at the state level is supposed to go to building new schools. Pueblo wants an 8% excise tax on unprocessed marijuana PLUS an additional 4.3% sales tax. This is on top of last's years;s taxes, though they are not supposed to exceed 15% total. This is suposed to raise about a million dollars for the city. They've lost most of the marijuana fines, and so want a half-percent increase in the sales tax to replace that money to fund the police. I'd consider that if civil forfeiture was terminated.
My guess is that the optimal tax rate on gambling is no more than 10%, because then the negative expectation games get even worse very, very quickly. It took New Jersey over 20 years for a thousand people to sign up for self-exclusion from the casinos, with a tax rate of 8.5% when you count the mandatory investments that have to be made in Atlantic City, but it took Pennsylvania, with a tax rate of 33% unde two years to have a thousand sign up for self-exclusion, and it is much more common for people in Pennsylvania to take the lifetime ban.
It sounds like you have been reading this year's ballot proposals. If memory serves, the first $40M raised at the state level is supposed to go to building new schools. Pueblo wants an 8% excise tax on unprocessed marijuana PLUS an additional 4.3% sales tax. This is on top of last's years;s taxes, though they are not supposed to exceed 15% total. This is suposed to raise about a million dollars for the city. They've lost most of the marijuana fines, and so want a half-percent increase in the sales tax to replace that money to fund the police. I'd consider that if civil forfeiture was terminated.
My guess is that the optimal tax rate on gambling is no more than 10%, because then the negative expectation games get even worse very, very quickly. It took New Jersey over 20 years for a thousand people to sign up for self-exclusion from the casinos, with a tax rate of 8.5% when you count the mandatory investments that have to be made in Atlantic City, but it took Pennsylvania, with a tax rate of 33% unde two years to have a thousand sign up for self-exclusion, and it is much more common for people in Pennsylvania to take the lifetime ban.
A hoot may help that twitchy finger.
Colorado black market pot - $60 - $240 ounce for home grow depending on where bought. So let's see how weed industry will rebuild middle class now that manufacturing and construction is collapsing.
They sell it legally for $25.00 a gram at the "Legal Store" in Washington and I asked my kid how much it costs and she said $10.00 from elsewhere. Why the hell would anybody go the the store?
So they can have the privilege of being "taxed on our pot -- please".
Insurance. If not now, eventually.
What was America Dad?
Well son it was a country whose people were handed freedom and threw it away. They were so distracted with stupid useless shit and the globalists came in and stole it all away from them without so much as a fight. Many couldn't read or write. And few studied anything that didn't make them fast money.
Their biggest past time was a sport that no longer exists called football. It was shaped like a woman's private parts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4lNez7NV1w
They were never able to rally enough people to stand up together to save anything of importance. Their last great battle to regain their freedom was the fight for the right numb their minds with drugs.
Really? Why would they do something so ridiculous?
Nobody knows. And most of them didn't know that the globalist controlled government already owned the patents to the drugs they were begging to use. So they were just begging the government to enslave them and numb their minds. Some believe that deep down the American's knew what was happening and were so embarrassed and depressed that they just want to numb the pain. It was ironic really. They were the last great nation to openly all people to have guns. They could have all bought guns and saved themselves or even killed themselves. But they wanted to be comfortably numb with drugs.
Nobody knows for sure what finally happened. One day the country just dissolved as if it was never there. It disappeared even faster than the the old Soviet Union vanished.
Well that's all for story time son. Now back to studying Sun Tsu's Art of War. We'll be conquering the world soon.
The reason we can't have our freedoms is because too many demand them without their accompanying consequences. We have ObamaCare because we demanded access to healthcare without paying for it. Now we got what we got. Legalize drugs....all of them. Just do not provide money or services to them. No rehab, no clinics, and no giving a damn. Fucking free the whole damn country. Live with the consequences of our choices....all of them. It will be ugly a while but we will be free. Or else take the shit they give us, rules and free shit all, and quit complaining.
$40-50 for 1/8?
Here in Vancouver, Canada, 50 dispensaries sell weed grown under Health Canada license for $15 for 1/8th profitably, all paying taxes.
Colorado is triple Vancouver, Canada prices. You can confirm on Leafly
Muricans must like getting ripped off.
That means that that $355m business is a $120m profitable taxpaying business with another $235m of unnecessary excess profits.
Thats why Colorado still has a huge underground weed business. If gubmint would get their brain around it they'd figure out how much taxes they're leaving on the table.
That also means there is a lot of crappy weed in Colorado. There is no incentive to work efficiently to make a product that has standard 30% margins. Instead they need 300% margins. They also dont care about cultivating customers. Anytime margins are 300%, every customer is a sucker.
All the people in Canada who cant grow weed have left to Colorado and Washington, where they can still earn a salary by growing skunk.
You're wrong about the crappy weed. Fierce competition drives quality. Throw a rock, where I live and you'll hit a grower.
The lesser weed is exported.
Yes, competition drives quality. But 300% margins isnt a competitive business.
$50 for an eighth? That used to be considered a $20 sack on the street back in 1994 when I first got into the stuff; which, by the Inflation Calculator, is $32.10 today. I have no idea what an eighth sells for on the street now, since I stopped smoking it even before the current millennium started, but it seems there is definitely a premium to buy the stuff legally.
150CAD an ounce here. Maybe 200 if you are desperate
Handed, my ass! People died, on this soil, fighting for every scrap of justice they could get!
What was America dad? It was a place where whole races of people were eliminated in the name of god. Where, if you weren't Anglo Saxon, you would be held down in slums, with all ages above 10 yrs. working for 14 hrs. a day for pennies at best or kept as a slave or killed and mutilated, at worst! It was a place where violence, typically against the weak, was prevalent and ignored. Where most people sought escape from their misery in various forms. Later it became a place where dogma was embraced in order to advance empire to benefit few at the expense of all the resources it possessed, both natural and human.
Why would so many go along with this, dad?
Most people are scared shitless...
Your dad's story is a nice one. It just doesn't match the facts.
Yes, we are all suffering terribly. Its just hell on earth. If I could just get high, it would be soooo much better!
As an angry young man I was told to choose my battles wisely. Life hasn't been half bad since. But I could have gone to prison to protest for my rights to sell drugs. Freedom is a gun and care should be taken to not shoot ones self.
I am not an advocate of staying high. Like I said, I rarely partake in anything of that nature. But many people need their vices and who is anyone to deny them.
Proximity to death is a gun, most of the time. The only freedom you might achieve, is from age and gravity.
I am not an advocate of gun control either. Who am I to deny anyone their "security blanket", no matter the form.
What we suffer the most is the consequences of our actions....as it should be. There is absolutely nothing free about freedom.
3000 dollars for 30 lbs of feshly compacted jamaican lamb's breath. the sweet, sweet good old days.
Criminalising drugs denies you sovereignty over your own consciousness! Wakey wakey...
After purposefully living outside of the USA for the last 10 years I am considering moving back to Colorado. Wifey thinks the kids' English ain't up to code, I just want to grow my own in comfort. A couple can grow up to 10 plants tax-free.
I notice real estate prices in the Denver area seem to be on a tear compared to nationally.
You're actually going to move your entire family, internationally, so that you can get high without a hassle?
Denver is kind of an armpit compared to many places in CO. An overgrown cattle town.
$40 to $50 for an eigth of an ounce? Back in the day, I could get an ounce for that price. Maybe double that if I wanted an ounce of Jamaican or Acapulco Gold...and you could get real Thai stick, Panama Red, or even hashish. Heck, we used to turn the crap weed into hash oil. (Thank you chemistry majors for doing the research!)
Nothing quite beats stoners of today getting ripped off at the "marijuana" dispensary. Is it just pot has so addled their synapses, that they can't grow their own? As a previous poster pointed out...
>A couple can grow up to 10 plants tax-free.
just read a bit on the homeless problem in Denver in the last couple of years which has skyrocketed
they call it dope for a reason
Being free to do something doesn't necessarily make that something a wise choice.
Many are much more enthusiastic about liberty than about the responsibilities that come with it.
How, high are you Colorado? At least 5000 ft above most, on average, Growing from the mountains down to the valleys of America. "Everybody must get stoned"
I have just returned from summering at my son's digs in the Rockies. He is at 8000 feet in a rural area near Durango. Everybody grows some weed, or has a neighbor who does, as before. A couple of ounces of bud can get your driveway plowed all winter. Marajuana stores and dealers are for tourists and urbanites.
Went to see Tom Petty at red rocks and bought legal weed for a lark. Great quality but the corporate store routine sucks. Will stick with local growers and police sources here in NM. Legal is great but I'll support the little ladies and men in the black market.
I would rather see governments taxing a luxury like weed then raise property taxes or hire more cops as tax collectors or tax by inflation as we have seen plenty of this last decade+
You never hear a hippie say that we should grow food for the starving instead of marijuana.
Its the PEOPLE not the drug, YES there are morons that will jump of buildings if they smoke dope/drink/want to impress etc & there are people that will create amazing thigns while under the influence, like Steve Jobs, Morgan Freeman, Soros etc. WEED should be legal. Retards should just stay away, that is the problem. I have smoked since I was 14, have an MBA, two businesses, two kids, two dogs, pay lots of Taxes etc. MORONS will always be MORONS!!! Regardless if it is weed, alcohol, prescription drugs etc. Some people just need to stay away from any mind altering substance. Especially if they are WEAK minded & stupid, examples would be Geithner, Bernanke, Yellen Krugman.
i've got two comments.
#1 what happens if the new man in the big chair, (the president), with his pen, and phone, calls the fbi, and says go to colorado i think thier breaking federal laws.
#2 i don't care about causual, or medicinal use, but they need to supply the police with instuments, that shows drug levels, like breathalizers pickup alcohol levels, then have an honest debate.
treat drugs the same as alcohol, if your driving or in public, if you test over a certain level, your under the influence, you can be jailed, fined, or both.
if your at home drink, or smoke as much as you want.