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"Common People Do Not Carry This Much Currency" – How Police Justify Stealing American Citizens' Money
Submitted by Mike Krieger via Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,
Police confiscating Americans’ hard earned cash, as well as a wide variety of other valuables, without an arrest or conviction is a disturbing and growing practice throughput these United States. Since cops get to keep the seized funds and use the money on pretty much anything they want, the practice is becoming endemic in certain parts of the nation. The theft is often referred to simply as civil forfeiture, or civil asset forfeiture. Incredibly, under civil forfeiture laws your property is incredibly “guilty until you prove it innocent.”
The extent of the problem came to my attention last summer after reading an excellent article by Sarah Stillman in the New Yorker. The article struck such a chord with me, I penned a post highlighting it and addressing the issue, titled: Why You Should Never, Ever Drive Through Tenaha, Texas. That article ended up being one of my most popular posts of 2013.
Fast forward a year, and many mainstream publications have also jumped on the topic. Most notably, the Washington Post published an excellent article last month titled, Stop and Seize, which I strongly suggest reading if you haven’t already.
Fortunately for us all, the issue has also caught the eye of the always hilarious, John Oliver of Last Week Tonight. The following clip from his show is brilliant. Not only is it hilarious, but it will hopefully educate a wider audience about this insidious practice so that it can be stopped once and for all.
As one officer admitted in an affidavit justifying his confiscation of an innocent driver’s cash:
“Common people do not carry this much U.S. currency.”
Enjoy:
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There's a reason those 3D printers sold out yesterday.
Wouldn't phase me if one of those cops got a cap in their asses.
guilty until proven innocent, bitchez
Stuffing physical currency in brief cases... for people stuck in the 20th Century.
For everything else there's Bitcoin.
Common people do not carry this much gold.
Molon Labe bitchez!
Awesome show.
Another case of rot in the Jewmerica, rot from the head down. With leaders like bushy boy and obunga, cock holder boy, what do you you expect? All started from 911. These cops know that there is no longer any laws in this USSA, they fill their pockets first.
Aren't you glad now that Ebola will take them out too?
Let the shit rolls. This Godless, Lawless world should end.
you first
Why carry cash when you can just carry an EBT card?
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
R.I.P.
So cops are pirates now.
Welcome to communism.
How's that revolution shaping up?
Police departments are criminal organizations that cultivate their junior thugs.
Mercenary soldiers in the Middle Ages were very proficient at living off the locals.
Pillaging has been around for a very long time.
When pulled over, just quote Tyler...
“You’re not your job. You’re not how much money you have in the bank. You’re not the car you drive. You’re not the contents of your wallet. You’re the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world.”
Tyler Durden in: Fight Club (1999)
Us "criminal lawyers" (no pun intended) have bee dealing with "civil" forfeiture for a long time. It started with the Feds (as most bad practices do) and spread.
There are a number of really bad Due Process problems with the "local" forfeitures which are now the lion's share of the procedures. The Officers have a huge incentive to slant the evidence or, more important, the "procedure" they went through to find the eivdence, in their favor so that they keep the money. I know it's a surprise to people on this site but economic incentives can skew a decision.
The worst aspect of these so called hearings is that the first level of challenge, in which you get to argue constitutional (often 4th Amendment) issue is often set in front of a Police Captain who (1) has the economic incentive, (2) no goddamn legal training and (3) is the actual party on the other side of the case.
Ah the modern definition of Due Process
As I've written before, whether the smallest league of seizure, Camera Tickets all the way to the "War on Terror, the new trick (or the old trick depending on your hisotrical perspective) is to redefine the citizens action out of the normal "due process," then shorten and limit their rules and tools...so they always loose.
just another sign that this empire is broke, corrupt, and collapsing
The Officers have a huge incentive to slant the evidence or, more important, the "procedure" they went through to find the eivdence, in their favor so that they keep the money.
It's worse than that...... the cops KNOW they are hurting innocent by-standers.
Remember: Off the Pigs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFpzQscMZ7Y&list=UUDuvS8UvFwKIWRcBkyNd-Rw
Barry Cooper is a former DEA agent and he can teach you about traffic stops. Great guy.
By the way LasVegasDave why does the Jewish community stand up for the crooks on wall st or the jewish oligarchs plundering eastern europe? Is it because they make donations to jewish charities? Only guy they turned on was Madoff and that was because he stole from them. Also is it because the Torah says its ok to lie and steal from the gents.
Man, I sure would hate to be a cop when the economic downfall actually starts to impact "main street"...
In all truthfulness, the glue holding the social fabric together in these united states is food stamps and cash welfare...
Once that goes, watch out...
Just don't piss off the thought police.
1984
http://www.planbeconomics.com/2014/10/stephen-king-on-george-bush-and-ge...
How do plea?
Not guilty .....
I knew you would say that ...
In the above example, the cinematic cop above, doesn't pilfer assets, he destroys `em.
We're cops and you're not!
Fin...the end.
In the immortal words of the police chief in Blade Runner: "If you're not cop, you're little people."
Check your premises Cosmos - there is no such thing as the "Jewish community ". There is no central Jewish governing body as you'd like to believe. The ADL, AIPAC, federations and so on are independent bodies that perceive themselves as representing the "Jewish people ". Yet they no more represent Jews than corporate boards represent shareholders and not even that. Any bailing out is done on an ad hoc basis, usually via private initiatives at the grassroots level independent of any political entity.
Yeah, and Zionism is fake too, right fucker?
If you'd actually understood what I was saying you'd realize that I wasn't denying the existence of the tribe or it's various governing apparatuses, but rather redefining their nature and /or "modes of operation" vis a vis the gents. There is no uniform mandated-by-central-authority policy towards the gents. The generalization is too gross. There are literally hundreds of groups within the tribe ranging from neomarxist agnostics to anarchist pantheists. But you wouldn't have a clue. Keep on believing what you want to believe. See where that takes you. Have a nice day.
This crap is the reason to know your rights and to not answer their questions, even if they get shitty with you... A dash cam helps too...
"Common people don't carry this much credit card debt"
I took advice from my Rich Dad. Debt is good because it can't be confiscated, lol.
Along those lines, if they ask is this your car always answer: "No, it belongs to the bank." ;-)
John Oliver, the only good reporter alive to comment the felonies of the United States of Chimerica and its law enforcement "seizures", crony governement, nuclear arsenal mismanagement, etc. We laugh because we know it's true, but all this is really terrible. Great piece btw
Tape the following sticky note to your license:
Notice to Police
PLEASE DO NOT SHOOT ME!
I AM UNARMED AND NON-VIOLENT
(or, I HAVE A VALID CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT)
1: I exercise my 4th Amendment rights and DO NOT CONSENT to any warrantless searches
2. I exercise my 5th Amendment right to remain silent.
3. I will obey all lawful orders. I will not obey requests. You must specify that a directive is an order.
4. I will not sign any documents.
________________________________________
When you give the pig this card, make sure you keep your hands on the steering wheel and KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. As in, you are a mute, or a Trappist monk who has taken a vow of silence. Don't say a fucking thing.
Keep your door locked and your window rolled down only enough to pass through documents. If the cop orders you to roll the window down, step out of the car etc, obey him, otherwise keep your hands on the steering wheel and don't say anything.
You'll get a ticket and some verbal abuse, but you will remain alive and you will probably win your case.
Anyone arguing their case to a police captain is an idiot. Police captain isn't a judge and police station isn't a court.
Just like arguing your case to a cop, no way would I do that.
If they confiscate my property next step is lawsuit in federal court for constitutional violation. Bypass city court county court state court, go straight to federal court, only place with knowledgeable judges IMO.
One little podunk PD gave my stuff back and dropped charges when city was served with federal lawsuit. They were falling over themselves being nice to me, cop personally apologized.
We settled out of court.
That takes a lot of money with no guarentees.
ok whatever
If you had more experience in federal court with federal judges you'd know that you were very lucky to have found a lawyer connected to the judge and an obliging State Attorney General. It's a delusion that the federal courts are more honest than local courts. Also, why didn't the State's Attorney General defend the State's law and the jurisdiction of State courts in the federal court action? What percentage did your attorney take?
What is this BS you're spewing?
Federal court has original jurisdiction on constitutional rights violation.
Or didn't you know that?
The BS is from you. Which law gives federal courts original jurisdiction for civil rights claims? Here's one of precedents used by federal courts to dismiss civil rights actions based upon claims which could be raised in State Courts: This is called the Younger abstention; Younger vs Harris, 401 U.S. 37, 43-44 (1971) There many other precedents for federal court abstention in civil rights actions. Which State's Attorney General did not oppose your action?
Meh...the law firm of Smith & Wesson will be getting more and more new clients.
Glad you popped back in Davey.
@ Davey
There are a number of really bad Due Process problems with the "local" forfeitures which are now the lion's share of the procedures. The Officers have a huge incentive to slant the evidence or, more important, the "procedure" they went through to find the eivdence, in their favor so that they keep the money. I know it's a surprise to people on this site but economic incentives can skew a decision.
The worst aspect of these so called hearings is that the first level of challenge, in which you get to argue constitutional (often 4th Amendment) issue is often set in front of a Police Captain who (1) has the economic incentive, (2) no goddamn legal training and (3) is the actual party on the other side of the case.
Ah the modern definition of Due Process.
I think civil forfeiture is complete bullshit, but is due process really violated if a court (not of record) decides your case on a preliminary basis and you have a right to appeal, de novo, to a court of record? Isn't this just a branch of the larger criminal court system, where the first level of most criminal cases is heard in a kangaroo court? Isn't this just a function of efficiency due to large dockets?
The problem I would see is that if J6P is going to represent himself at the initial hearing and he has to get in all of his evidence and build a record for appeal... then, you've got a problem. This is what happens in every prison case of alleged violation of civil rights... first the prison sets up an impossible standard to follow (even for an attorney) and expects what is most likely a lower functioning person to follow it [not that attorneys aren't lower functioning, we are, it's just that we're louder and more annoying, so it gets overlooked]. The District Court looks at it and boots it out for failure to exhaust (it's a huge issue atm). Past that, the guards get to be the gatekeeper for all the information the inmate has to use against them... shakedown, what are these documents? contraband! Pretty wild actually. [it doesn't help that most cases are just inmates trying to get a few vacation days away from the prison].
To the extent it's a money issue, if you meet the requirements for a pauper, then you can proceed accordingly and attempt to have filing fees waived...
What you and I likely define due process as is something completely different than its legal definition... DHS/Child enforcement cases are another ball of wax...
Observation, threat review, evaluation and selection in progress.
Hey Gatorboat,
They used to be called Highway Patrolmen, now they are just called Highwaymen.
We spent the last 70+ years hunting down and prosecuting Hitler's goons, we will spend the next 70+ years hunting down and prosecuting Obama's...
;-D
Nope. They USED to be called highwaymen. Didn't you ever read about Robbin Hooood? The only difference between Robin Hood and the Feds is that the Feds don't give back - unless there's a noose involved.
Of note, the punishment for highway robbery has always been death.
Hmmm.....
I'm pretty sure the original stories of Robin Hood were him not stealing from the rich and giving to the poor, but stealing from the recipients of the tax money they forced everyone to pay and returned it to those people.
BINGO! +10 You hit the nail on the head. Note the "special" punishment for "assault against a public servant". I seem to recall some dead King saying, "A assault against a servant of the King is an assault against the King himself." I wouldn't want to be a public servant when TSTF...
Some people are only alive because it is illegal to kill them, i.e., many cops, and ALL Feds.
I used to be pro-cop many years ago. I am neutral overall and negative on the trend. Have you met the people they hire, now?
Not dead yet... ;-)
Not to put to fine a point on it, but a few of us tried to warn ya'll about this, as it was being put into place, back in the 1980s. Another charming example of Reagan/Bush legacy.
Welcome to the asylum, it rarely changes.
Oh no we listened, that's why we elected Clinton - to get it rolled back. I'm sure President Chelsea Clinton Mezvinsky will prioritize it.
Warnings? To sheep?
Ha ha, pretty funny :)
ho lala ! mais toi... mais... tu vas avoir des groooooos problèmes !!!!
mais on va te décapiter !!!!
We have rights? Whocouldaknowed?!?
I certainly wasn't told that in my fancy taxpayer-funded school. Then again, I got in trouble for reading during class...
EBT can be blocked individually
cash can only be blocked for all together
I had to up-vote your for providing me with a LOL. It's also true that all these holier than thou types assume they're going to be the survivors. "You first", is always the best response.
Are there any rich guys out there that want to have some expensive fun? It may be costly and it may take some decent planning.
What happens when the richest hit is another police car?
I may have to think a little harder.
You think they aren't prepared? the first imported doctor to the US a perfect blood type match. Real reasosn they got the cure and won't be going back to Africa any time soon, even if immune...
.
This is about BANKS. The idea is to discourage you from running funds around the ACH system. They want to know where your money is headed at all times and be able to steal it when "necessary".
+1. You seem smarter than you look.
;-)
Knock once for yes, twice for no.
Oh Wilber!!!!!
DING! DING! DING!
We have a winner!
The law of bills and notes is NOT the same as electronic debits and credits.
The more notes in the banks vaults the better for their fractional reserve scam.
Electronic credits don't mean jack shit.
Not just to steal it when necessary, but to frontrun it permanently.
You can't bribe a bank (at least the average Joe can't !).
So it is either get all your 0's and 1's confiscated by the bank, or take a shot the cop can be bribed and possibly keep half the paper.
Just buy and carry gold. That way you only lose the premium. Bitchez.
Whats to keep them from grabbing the gold. They can say hey nobody normally walks around with that much gold on them, anything more than a wedding band and they will confiscate it.
I pity da foo what tries to CONfiscate!...
Mr. Ed - Banks is the reason but in my opinion from a different take. Bankers sell scams for state pensions. Returns don't meet expectations causing pension shortfalls. States use legal system to replenish coffers with a police state. The states cannot print there own money like the Federal Government can.
Also, the US government deregulated the finance industry and at the same time, Clinton put 20,000 more cops on the beat. Seems they had a pretty good idea what was going to happen. So a lawless government at the federal level being emulated state on down to local (fish rots from head down).
The more federal laws too like NDAA to criminalize the population, squash dissent and also have the option of a few million more widget makers in private prisons for 'sympathizing' with this group or that one. State serves Federal government now and Federal government is a puppet for the central bank via lobby.
"The banks own the place" - Senator Dick Durbin 2009
That all said, at the local level, one can still make a difference in the politics. Make sure you have a few friends getting up into there grill at townhall meetings and such first though ;) One could use Meetup.com and organize a monthly meeting about such serious issues. What you want is to make local lawmakers actually WORK for a living to raise revenues with resorting to police as the end all, be all solution.
Mr. Ed - Banks is the reason but in my opinion from a different take. Bankers sell scams for state pensions. Returns don't meet expectations causing pension shortfalls. States use legal system to replenish coffers with a police state. The states cannot print there own money like the Federal Government can.
Also, the US government deregulated the finance industry and at the same time, Clinton put 20,000 more cops on the beat. Seems they had a pretty good idea what was going to happen. So a lawless government at the federal level being emulated state on down to local (fish rots from head down).
The more federal laws too like NDAA to criminalize the population, squash dissent and also have the option of a few million more widget makers in private prisons for 'sympathizing' with this group or that one. State serves Federal government now and Federal government is a puppet for the central bank via lobby.
"The banks own the place" - Senator Dick Durbin 2009
That all said, at the local level, one can still make a difference in the politics. Make sure you have a few friends before getting up into there grill at townhall meetings and such first though ;) One could use Meetup.com and organize a monthly meeting about such serious issues and then show up together at the townhall meetings. What you and I want is to make local lawmakers actually WORK for a living to raise revenues and cut fat with resorting to police as the end all, be all solution to revenue shortfalls.
"This is about BANKS."
I disagree. If banks were behind this, EVERYONE would know what civil asset forfeiture is and be scared shitless of it. I would wager only 1% of Americans have ever heard of it. This is the work of corrupt law enforcement, prosecutors, and judges. An abused artifact of the war on drugs. It should be illegal, but our esteemed Supreme Court interpreted otherwise. Banksters are scum, but the money involved here is child's play to them. Follow the money. It doesn't go to the banksters.
Yes, the conspiracy folks are overthinking this. This is no more complicated than Buford Pusser versus the corrupt local Sheriff (Stand Tall).
It has gotten worse and more ubiquitous over the years. Personally, I say it starts with red light cameras and speed traps. The whole point is to use the law to raise revenue. It is even more lucrative these days because as the sheriff in the video said they can do most anything with the money. I want to know if they can actually pass it out to cops either directly (cash) or indirectly (everyone gets a new TV as a Christmas bonus).
The progression for all these fines is this. When it is a game and it should not be, it leads to cynicism. Cynicism leads to corruption. Corruption when it is in the open is oppression.
This is how all third world countries run their police forces.
I call foul. It's about corralling all transactions into digital form. That is the goal, demonizing cash. Every debit card transaction is literally money to the banks. The police are just the tool to do the job, for a price of course.
They steal because they can, not to support some cash-demonizing agenda. Cops don't give a fuck about banksters. They'll take a bankster's cash, too, if the target is small enough (meaning not Too Big To Prosecute).
If banksters ran the cops and prosecutors, staging would never be prosecuted. Not only is staging prosecuted, it is another abused tactic to steal from innocent people, if the opportunity arises. Easy money from a target that will get no sympathy from the masses that don't use cash.
Civil asset forfeiture has nothing to do with banksters or demonizing cash. It simply an easy target for corrupt law enforcement, when no law has been broken. Cash has already been demonized, or at least is perceived as "weird" by most people. That's why cops get away with forfeiture - no sympathy from the masses.
Yeah, yeah, I get that. The cops like to steal. How are they allowed to steal, who structured these laws, and for what reason. Qui bono? Well, the fucking banks, yeah, they get a cut of every digital transaction. So it herds the herd into digital. Think about the money involved in skimming off basically all the retail transactions in America. That is the prize, and the cops are hired to steal to frighten the herd into the pen. The cops are the electric cattle prod to move the relucant into killing pen. I'm amazed at my own poetic prose at times.
Look for the blue stripe down the center of the bill.
want to see what's in your pocket? where did it come from and where is it going to?
What can read it?
Maybe the drones can tell.
Ah, the incredible Mr. Ed, brilliant as always.
Common people do not have this much gold in their safes.
Where did you get it from? What do you need it for?
"Common People Do Not Carry This Much Currency"
Common people don't have that much currency.
Common people only have debt.
Tell the cop you know about "Desert Snow" and "Black Asphalt". Google them. They are the training courses they take to perfect the shake-down process.
Comon people do not need to carry this much Ammo... Bitchez
Molan Labe!
For people who carry a lot of cash ... I recommend exploding dye packs. Just in case the money is seized.
Go heavy on the C-4.
Yup. Nobody gets it, and you get tagged as a bank robber.
I just couldn't resist:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuTMWgOduFM
By the way, common people never pay cash for anything... so damn proud of their plastic and silently weep when they realize all of the bank charges they're paying for a fucking $5.-- cup of coffee they used their card for.
"so damn proud of their plastic and silently weep when they realize all of the bank charges they're paying for a fucking $5.-- cup of coffee they used their card for."
That statement was so true in the 1990s. However, today that is false because some credit cards offer 5% cashback rewards. That $5 starbucks = 25 cents cashback.
Things are so back asswards nowadays that you get a higher return on spending with a credit card than having a "high yield" savings account of 0.9%
Meanwhile, Starbucks is actually getting $4.80 - $4.90 for that cup of coffee, after they pay the bankster 2% - 3% in fees for accepting the plastic. Nobody is offering me a 10¢ or 20¢ discount for paying cash, mind you.
I give my customers a discount for cash at my biz.
Now you are starting to get it. It's about the banks, and their merchant fees, and a desired by product of trackability.
Seriously, though, Bitcoin user not affected.
Bitcoin
Just changes the thieves ..
That and preditory taxes might be the vehicle of getting you, if and when PMs finally take off.
Imagine, after all this you finally are sitting on some PMs worth money and they confiscate them....
They will end up confiscating lead at 3200 fps.
55 grains of it by the sound of it.
Why such a long barrel for close up work? Tsk tsk.
5.56 out of 7.5" works pretty well up close
Got your $200 federal stamp for that there SBR? Get yourself one of those Noveske flash suppressor with the fire breathing pig engraved on the side. It provides some back pressure for your cycling and throws a goddamned shock wave out the front, vs wasting all that shock and awe laterally like a vortex does.
or go wild and spend an additional $200 on a real to goodness Gemtech. You should be using 158gr 9mm instead of .223 for this kinda work in any event.
Also, I will work on getting the correct firebreathing pig engraving so I can get some backpressure for extra cycling
<facepalm>
Why the fuck would anyone want the .gov to know that they have a suppressor?
Suppressor <> Flash suppressor
Statistically those willing to jump through the documentation hoops and pay the tax stamp fees to enjoy their inalienable rights just don't commit gun crimes. Yeah it sucks they know and can come take it whenever they want, but me and the many people I know who rock tax stamps don't regret it. They know about your gun habits from the NICS system anyway if you buy at stores.
I would guess Hornady SuperPerformance at 90 grains.
Or maybe Lapua 338?
"They will end up confiscating lead at 3200 fps."
Only in your dreams.
They wouldn't come to your home to confiscate it. It would be executive order type thing. Turn it in or face criminal charges yada yada yada.
If you didn't and they come to arrest you (not likely), which of those 9 swat guys will you take out before they take you out?
You rambo types don't think this stuff through very well.
If the fight gets to your front door you've already lost. You're going to jail or morgue, and they really don't care which.
Yep. The answer is obvious. Take the fight to them.
You first.
No thanks, I'll just let them bring the fight to your front porch. You sorta sound like one of those rambo type darwin award candidates.
You aren't required to follow unlawful orders.
You are, however, required to do your duty: stick it to tyrants, like your forefathers did.
Like this.
Then all of you can be charged with willful dereliction of duty and easily convicted, there's mountains of evidence after all.
Forefathers didn't sit around posting "fuck you" comments. Only sheep do that.
ya'll mean, da pigz be guilty...else dey gotsta' p'oove it...
I know cops aren't famous for listening to logic and reason, but someone should still remind them that ten grand ain't what it used to be. It's nothing for me to withdraw 3 or 4 grand just to pay some miscellaneous bills.
Always remind them that banks charge fees and pay no interest. The lights may not visibly be on but deep down behind them sunglasses is another human with his own set of bills to pay. You got nothing to lose by reminding him often. I said a long time ago that when the cops can't afford to house and feed their wife and kids, watch out. Sure they might be on double what you're earning but that's just another part of the dynamic - now they're scared that if they lose their job then they'll have to do whatever you do for a living.
The govt can't afford to pay the cops properly so now they let the cops harvest their own. That "solution" ain't going away in a hurry. Don't think you can ignore the problem and hope it goes away.
Cops don't give a fuck about your reasons. If they are seasoned thieves, what you say has zero bearing on what they do.
So shut up, and NEVER, EVER give consent for them to search your car.
And never tell them anything. Certainly do not volunteer information.
If they are wasting time waiting for a "drug dog" to get there to give a false hit on your car, simply ask them if you are being detained. If they say yes, then say you want a lawyer.
Cops are not your friend, they are the foot soldiers for the most corrupt racketeering organization ever invented, government.
pods
"Cops are not your friend"
So true. House niggers enforcing order for the master would be accurate.
Union thugs like most any other government employee now, they are just more overt about it, with their shackles and weapons and uniforms and training in intimidation.
If you choose to challenge a detention, your lawyer will have to argue that police kept you longer than necessary under the circumstances. If the judge agrees, any criminal charges that resulted from your detention will likely be dropped.
Remember that detentions are voluntary unless you verbally ask to leave. Any time police detain you, it’s a good idea to ask if you’re free to go. If the officer says you may leave, it’s up to you to leave the scene of the encounter. If you choose to stay, the detention is automatically legal.
http://www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/how-long-can-police-detain-you/
flex your rights is a great website suggested in another story by a ZHer
After you are stopped and questioned by police officers, there is the possibility of not being free to leave in the course of the investigation. If you are told to come to the station, you are being detained for further questioning. During this process, it is crucial that the detainee grasps a complete understanding of their rights, in order to prevent unnecessary charges against them. Failure to understand one’s rights diminishes the strength of a potential case and can be used against the defendant if the crime proceeds to court.
If you are not free to go after being approached by a police officer, you have the right to know the reasons why you are being detained. You have the right to remain silent. You have the right to consult a lawyer for further advice and instruction. If you did not know this right prior to detainment, you should be informed of this right by the police. The right to a lawyer should be presented during detainment.
Part of the right to counsel is your right to privately telephone a lawyer, however anyone contacted outside the realm of legal consultation can be supervised by police.
There are exceptions to the rules, particularly involving detainees who are under the influence of drugs and alcohol.
There is a clear distinction between detainment and arrest. A person being detained has not yet been charged with a particular crime. Although many people associate arrest with the necessity of knowing their rights, the in-between stage of detainment is an equally vital step in preventing or exacerbating a subsequent arrest.
https://www.aclu.org/drug-law-reform-immigrants-rights-racial-justice/kn...
http://www.aclupa.org/files/2313/2993/0341/KYRPhotographersweb.pdf
BTW, its never that cut and dry when you are pulled over.
If you refuse to let them search your car, the dog *will* show up and they *will* ransack your car.
I think you dont concent to the search in any event, but asking a cop "am I free to leave" will not produce the results you think these magical words should.
If anything, you get to wait for the dog sitting on the curb with some bracelets....all on video.
I agree to a point. Its a catch22. However if you consent then what they find they can use. If you dont consent then your lawyer has a chance to get evidence thrown out which he wont be able to if you consent to the search.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyAjLkBCWKI
Barry Cooper has some good info...
Girl I work with got pressured into a search. Pig said she could refuse but another cop up the road was gonna pull her and harass her.
Tough situation. I would still refuse. Just cause I am an ass and would rather keep my rights than not offend a cop.
pods
You have to refuse... If you tell them you have cash, then they're just going to fill the back story to confiscate it (which is why the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine is worthless, a topic they covered quite well on the last season of the wire). You basically have to be polite, ask why you're being stopped, and if you believe it is a legitimate reason, then provide some I.D., insurance, and registration... beyond that, exercise your right to not incriminate yourself (silence).
The other aspect is that if you have $17k in cash and can't show where it ever touched a bank account, then did you pay taxes on the money? If you go claim it are you going to go to jail for tax evasion? If you can show where you just withdrew it from your bank account to pay for a car, then a bank statement brought into court is going to get your money back... pretty simple. If you pulled it out a little bit over a long period of time, more difficult...
Yeah. If they're happy to do this then all the good guys have probably retired and you have to wonder who is being selected to be recruited. Makes me think twice as hard about them armoured cars too.
roid raging mental midget psychopaths who get a woodie stealing from average people who don't know how to defend themselves.
Pods... Excellent post.
twenty three years in criminal law (and ten in prosecution) agrees with pods
even worse, like everything else, they are getting worse.
This. What cops will listen to is you pointing out that you're very litigious. That's really the only information that you should volunteer.
I looked to see if there was any civil rights case law on cops seizing cash simply because "normal people don't carry that much." I could not find any. I cannot believe that nobody has sued the fuckers for seizing property without probable cause. There was case law from where there was also actual drugs found, but not simply for taking cash because there was "too much."
Off the top of my head there was a case about some Hispanics driving to Michigan with a cooler of cash to buy a delivery truck.
No time to look it up now, but there are cases. Sometimes they get it back, but the cost is a big chunk of what it was.
The most interesting are where the cops force the driver to sign a statement where they forfeit the cash (clear case of under duress).
pods
Yes, there is case law on getting it back, but I've not seen any where they actually sue the department and the officers under 42 USC S 1983. I'm sure that I could find some case law that says that seizing property without probable cause nixes qualified immunity. I'm talking about the kind of case law where they are responsible for your attorney's fees if you win.
kinda funny, talking case law, codes , scotus decisions..they protect the club (corzine et al)..ave joe better stay away from the legal system- they only exsist to bleed you or lock your ass up, justice is for suckers in today's America- holding cash is now defacto criminal intent. wonder more cops are not shot in parking lots at HQ.
At least in my district, local cops are not considered part of the club. The judges out here aren't too happy with da popos.
St. John v. McColley, 653 F. Supp. 2d 1155 - Dist. Court, D. New Mexico 2009 - Google Scholar
http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=1565024730806456601&q=brunse...
Search the market ticker, I think he just talked about a case where qualified immunity was penetrated.
In the last week or two.
pods
There was one where a barber shop was raided over supposed license violations and the judge ruled that the cops don't have qualified immunity, but nothing on civil asset forfeiture when the only "reason" that they seize the cash is because there is too much.
That was it. I doubt that you could sue under a civil asset forfeiture case as you are not actually a party to the case.
From what I have read with these, if you do not forfeit it (some cops have the forms you can actually sign away your $$), they charge the property as being proceeds from something illegal.
Just a fucked up system if there ever was one.
But if precedent gets set for more piercing of qualified immunity, that is always a good thing.
pods
Then you would like cases I posted above.
Thanks for the links and keep it up.
And always pucker when they offer that free deep colon inspection.
42 USC 1983 is a pretty damn powerful statute. Almost cannot believe that this is in there.
pods
Yeah, I'm halfway tempted to go trolling APD while open carrying in order to use those two cases against them, even being bluntly honest about what I'm doing when approached in a sort of "If you fall for it, you deserve what you get" kind of way.
I can't remember the last time the Fourth Amendment was enforced against a government.
Pods - do you have a blog or anything {seriously}?
You're right - one should literally say nothing to the police except "lawyer". Be unerringly polite, look them in the eyes, use a soft voice, and answer or volunteer nothing.
CNN is right now showing a clip of a traffic stop for seatbelts turning into a broken window and tasing. I'm sure there are cop worshippers who can justify this, but this should never ever - EVER happen. It's assault and battery because they didn't [apparently] roll down their window or exit the car, neither of which they were required to do.
There really is a problem with police acting like they are soldiers of occupation.
http://mondoweiss.net/2011/12/from-occupation-to-occupy-the-israelificat...
"Israelification" is a pretty good partial explication.... I think the biggest thing is just who became cops in my hometown... idiot football players and people who got back from the wars and who had or developed hair triggers....
"There really is a problem with police acting like they are soldiers of occupation."
Ding ding ding we have a winner folks !!
That's exactly what they are. Soldiers of military occupation.
Problem is nobody sees the military occupation because they don't see military uniforms.
But that's enough, I really don't wana get into that huge subject here, explaining it wouldn't make any difference anyway, nothing would be done about it, just more whining and bitching and complaining.
Heck, they could declare full on communism in America and nothing would be done about it, just more whining and bitching and complaining.
RE
The problem is that good cops and good government is supposed to be your friend. The Constitution laid out the blueprint on how to make these entities work for the people (by ensuring civil protections).
The problem is that THIS government and THESE cops, however, are awful, evil, and spiteful power hungry fucktards. That's why they got rid of the protection we used to have (like habeus corpus).
And TBH, I don't think that a good government will ever exist again because I've come to the conclusion that humanity kinda blows and is a lot of sadomasochists.
This is why bitcoin, real estate, and art is popular, BTW.
Cops are unconstitutional.
there's no such thing as a good cop.
Good cops are mythological creatures like Santa Claus and the easter bunny.
Yet here we are at ZH, openly volunteering personal data day in and day out. I'm wondering how many algo's are cataloguing our use of words, admission to PM possession, attitudes towards government, federal reserve and law enforcement individuals.
Illusion of anonymity is temporary. It's here to fill us with confidence to spill the beans into their database before the pull the curtain away and start pointing a barrel.
Don't volunteer information? Well, one day you'll be pulled over and instead of having the rights read out, they'll be quoting ZH posts to your face.
I already had a curious encounter when crossing the border recently where the agent made a joke using a pharse that I often use online. Could've been a coincidence, or a hint. I didn't want to stick around to find out. They always look at their computer screen when processing. What's on that screen? How much do "they" know about me? I wish I knew.
Things like that will make a paranoid out of anybody.
In an unrelated encounter I got detained and searched for having "too little luggage for a trip". I kid you not. That exact phrase. I asked straight our how much luggage was considered appropriate, but received no answer. I didn't stand my ground and regret it. The search didn't reveal anything, and I truly had nothing to hide, but regardless, it was no justification for abuse of personal liberty.
JuliaS: "Yet here we are at ZH, openly volunteering personal data day in and day out."
Because I'm old and have had lots of experiences and lived to remember them and eventually ponder how I caused them cto ome about and understand their lessons, I've noticed how much people reveal not only here but everywhere. I hope revelations won't come back to bite any of us but I'm seriously afraid (for the first time in my life) that they will; I can no longer can trust not only the government but innocent people I meet everyday and once I might never have thought of as possible dangers.
I hate feeling this way. However, perhaps I'm not the first to do so. Remember The Godfather saying "never let anyone know what you're thinking". Saying what I really think about almost anything is something I now reserve for one trusted likeminded cousin and one trusted likeminded friend. Seriously.
Yeah. I had a cable guy turn up today, trying to track down some sort of reflection on the trunk, or something. I automatically assumed he was NSA, out to screw me in some way, didn't even think about it.
I don't like being paranoid. It's a lousy way to go thro' life. It's new to me. But it's necessary.
Same thing here, reflection on the truck. I had the exact same feeling, so maybe there is something to it. I don't know.
It's all I can do to keep from going over to govt side. Sheep side is disgusting loser joke. Complain complain complain bitch bitch bitch. All you disgusting sheep ever do.
So I'll stay neutral. But that's not a promise.
I don't even care how this ebola thing goes. America is FUBAR already.
I have one bullet. It's for me if things get bad enough. Looking around, it probably will.
"And never tell them anything. Certainly do not volunteer information."
Agree.
When you start talking they sense weakness, fear, and they know they've got you.
It takes guts to remain silent. I say "no answers without my attorney present". It works way better than talking about rights.
If they persist I might ask if they could use my answers against me. Of course they say yes. Then I repeat "no answers without my attorney present".
That IS my "miranda" right after all. "You may remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you. You have a right to counsel for any questioning."
Far as I'm concerned it's from the moment they approach me.
I think most will still have "shut the f** up prole and pay me my pension" going through their minds while you protest...
so if cops made more money they wouldnt steal?
are you taking drugs?
They never stole from me and they've had the opportunity. They were good and went by the book. I've met two or three bad ones (and they weren't that bad), the rest were good. Where I live, last time I looked they were still human. But I don't expect my experience to be universal.
The rot really sets in when "the book" is rotten.
Just like court systems, it's going to depend on what jurisdiction you're in. Not all PDs are equal.
You might want to check your temperature. Their paycheck is funded with theft.
You appear to have never had the opportunity to really know a DEA officer ,, ANY DEA officer.