This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
MH-17 Report False Flag Exposed After Revelation Passenger Was Wearing Oxygen Mask
When exactly a month ago the supposedly objective, impartial Netherlands released its official, 34-page preliminary report of the MH-17 crash over Ukraine, presumably based on black box data, air traffic control records, and other "authentic, verified" information, there were precisely zero mentions of "oxygen", "mask" or "oxygen mask."
Which is odd, because in what should become the biggest Freudian slip scandal in false-flag history, certainly since the Gulf of Tonkin, yesterday Dutch Foreign Minister Frans Timmermans accidentally revealed for the very first time ever, that one of the Australian passengers aboard the doomed airplane "appears to have donned an oxygen mask before the fatal crash, suggesting some on board might have been aware of their impending deaths, a Dutch official disclosed." Clearly a crucial aspect of the crash, as it points at the severity of the alleged explosion, yet one which was not noted until yesterday and which completely skipped the purvey of the official crash report for reasons unknown.
Needless to say, this makes a complete mockery of the story that the plane had exploded upon impact with the "Russian" missile, and is why there was supposedly no trace of any impact on the flight's black box recorder. Whether or not it also means that the alternative theory that a Ukraine jet had purposefully downed the Malaysian aircraft to serve as a pretext to implicate Russia, is unclear. But it also means that yet another conspiracy theory becomes fact: namely that whoever were the western powers who doctored and manipulated the "official" crash report of MH-17 to implicate Putin, not only lied but fabricated evidence.
Immediately upon realization just how serious the implications of this slip are, the damage control started, but it was too late. From the LA Times:
Dutch Foreign Minister Frans Timmermans apologized on Thursday for making the revelation on a television talk show the previous night, before the families of the 298 victims of the disaster had been notified of the disturbing discovery.
Timmermans gave an emotional speech at the United Nations four days after the crash in which he imagined the terrified passengers exchanging glances "one final time, in an unarticulated goodbye."
When talk show host Jeroen Pauw interviewed Timmermans on Wednesday night, he provoked the minister with accusations that he had dramatized the victims' last moments as a preliminary investigation report suggests that the Boeing 777's destruction was so swift that those on board were unlikely to have known anything was amiss.
"They did not see the rocket coming, but you know someone was found with an oxygen mask on his mouth?” Timmermans replied, according to the NL Times translation of his comments. "He thus had the time to do that. We cannot rule it out."
Well, actually we did not know because the official report that your country released Mr. Timmermans, and which we posted a month ago said that "high-energy objects from outside the aircraft" struck the airplane as it flew at an altitude of 33,000 feet, suggesting it had been struck by a missile.
Nothing on the flight data or cockpit voice recorders indicated the crew or passengers took any action in response to the fatal impact.
Which means the entire report is a fabrication.
So what did happen?
The mask found around the neck of the unnamed passenger, one of 88 Australian citizens and residents on board, was tested for fingerprints, saliva and DNA but produced no forensic evidence, De Bruin said. "So it is not known how or when that mask got around the neck of the victim," he said.
The discovery of the mask and the implications it raised about the passengers' final moments were conveyed to the Australian's family before Timmermans' interview on Wednesday night, the prosecutor's office said. But information was sent out to other family members of the MH-17 victims only on Thursday morning.
Timmermans issued a statement Thursday saying he regretted making the comment. We are confident that everyone else in the false-flag waving Western camp very much regretted Timmermans' comment as well.
»
- 76618 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
Ruh roh.
I would like to see what was on some of the cell phones. And dont tell me some didnt call or text something home. Bet you the western intelligence agencies have that stuff. Text like '...why is that jet firing at us'
Kiev Control: "Malaysia 17 this is Kiev control. Please change your heading by 18 degrees N to heading 85 E for 20 miles. Then turn SE by 30 degrees and maintain heading of ESE 115 degrees. Please acknowledge."
Flight 17 Pilot: "What??? Are you crazy? That puts us right over disputed territory. No way, Jose'!!!"
Kiev Control: "Malaysia 17. Do you see two Ukrainian SU-25's at your wingtips?"
Flight 17 Pilot: "Yes Kiev"
Kiev Control: "Then execute flight maneuver now!!!"
Flight 17 Pilot: "Roger that Kiev. Oh crap....."
Malaysia 17 flight paths. July 16 and 17. quite a difference:
http://tribktla.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/s035428442.jpg
I just wanted to hear what was on the cockpit voice recorder.
I smell a rat-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-tat!
Too bad we couldn't hear the actual black box recordings, or the conversations between air traffic control in Kiev and Dnepropetrovsk? In fact, what happened to the air traffic controller 'Carlos' anyways? Why did he mysteriously disappear, never to be heard from again?
The combination of a man wearing a mask around his neck and the BUK-theory is sheer impossible. Both are official Dutch government statements (although the BUK didn't make it to the "report").
Just because I can't keep the governments' and media lies straight, the Malaysian flight that vanished into thin air is still missing, correct?
This is a serious question, sadly, because it really does seem as if the wheels may be coming off of many plots, subplots, agendas, sub-agendas, schemes, tricks, and other massive, state sponsored frauds (from MENA to LIBOR to
LME to Ukraine/Nuland-Kagan to Syria/ISIS/IS/ISIL to [go ahead and insert one or more of dozens of plots or storylines of late here])....
Small steps Sunshine, small steps. This is something that the Tylers can work with... data and spread sheets.
How long does it take for a mask to drop, how long does it take apply it.
Yes, the math will discover who, what, where, when and why. Just give it sometime. Remember just because you work for a paycheck doesn't mean you will die for it.
Small steps. TPTB can't win the math ethics and math is against them...mostly.
Small steps," listen for the grasshopper at your feet." - old blind man
Nothing about this on the Faggington Post. War must go on.
Don't the masks automatically drop from their panels on decompression?
Since they were at high altitude, the smart thing to do would have been to put it on, like the stewardess instuct before each flight.
And besides, the churn and mangle at impact could have put anything anywhere.
These investigators are owned.
That would make this revelation a misdirection.
"suggesting some on board might have been aware of their impending deaths... "
ONE (not some).. It's the lone gunman perhaps?
Theatrically comical.
The "magic oxygen mask" in the "grassy knoll."
indeed.
http://smile.amazon.com/JFK-9-11-Years-Deep-State/dp/1615776311/ref=sr_1...
They do. He must have been sitting in the largest portion of the plane that stayed intact unil impact. The wind blast normally would have ripped such a mask easily away from a persons head, but he may have been pinned by g-forces and/or debris, and the mask may just have slipped down around his neck. Either he put it on right away after decompression, or it was put on him after he was found at the crash site. The crash site was never secured.
Faggington Post is focused on supreme courtruling that you can marry your dog
"Mr Simmermen was found early Friday morning by his secretary slumped over his desk with five shitgum holes to his head in what authorities have labeled a suicide."
Tyler Durden: Oxygen gets you high. In a catastrophic emergency, you're taking giant panicked breaths. Suddenly you become euphoric, docile. You accept your fate. It's all right here. Emergency water landing - 600 miles an hour. Blank faces, calm as Hindu cows.
I seem to recall the bodies laying around for days in fields. Didn't the Dutch complain about the state of decomp? I doubt there is any serious chain of evidence on the bodies. If there was a mask around a neck it could have been placed there after the fact.
*Not a forensic expert, I just power watched 20 seasons of Law & Order.
Thats the first thing I thought of.
Its not like EMT's came screaming up (sirens blaring) along with disinterested cops with cases of crime scene tape to keep people from trampling over evidence.
Best I can remember the crash scene was controlled by Russian militia...errr, ahhh, separatists...no, freedom fighters!
Well renowned for their forensic skill-set ;-)
////
Somebody says I'm wrong.
The scene was not controlled by Russia's "allies"...for days?
Shit, we don't even know if the "scene" is real. Ever been Ukraine? It probably doesn't exist...
right.....cos the best way to draw international sympathy to your cause is to shoot down a civilian airliner.
You speaking of the Ukrainian or the Russian "cause"? ;-)
You seem to have made up your mind, so have I. The Russians didn't have aircraft (or weren't supposed to have) aircraft over the Ukraine. So which side had incentive fire a ground to air missle?
If you're saying a Ukrainian pilot tailed the plane across the country and shot it down where he did, where is the pilot of that combat aircraft? Murdered when he landed? No pilot deaths that day.
I've always said it was an accidental shoot down, no premeditation, done by Russians.
It took eleven years for them to admit to shooting down KAL007, so we have time to argue...lol.
There was no ground-to-air missile. There would have been many videos of the smoke trail which would hang in the air for quite some time after the plane had hit the ground.
No smoke trail - no missile.
Which is why we have "many videos" of the flaming wreckage of Flight 17 raining down from the sky.
Thats an epic fail dude, by your own standards ;-)
/////
And...before we divert any further, the "scene" around which an oxygen mask was found on the face of someone who just dropped from tens of thousands of feet...was controlled by Russian "freedom fighters" wasn't it?
Uh-huh, it sure was, and those bloody Russian "freedom fighters" still refuse to release the audio recordings.
Idiot...
Is it common practice for those who support Russia to avoid admitting that it was Russian separatists (freedom fighters...lol) who controlled the crash site (in fact, they still do)?
And there are no videos of missles going up or videos of the plane falling down after proffering THAT as proof that it wasn't a ground to air missle because there is no video? There is no video of the plane crashing down either, so obviously there was no plane crash?...lol.
Its like talking to fucking third graders.
Nice attempt to maneuver through my previous question... There's a problem, though, since I have an old-fashioned attention span that exceeds 10 minutes.
But let's begin with addressing your points: there are a lot of ways to prove in which way MH17 was taken down, and those ways have nothing to do with a posteriori "evidence planting", as nmewn suggests. You have satellite images, black box, audio recordings from Ukie flight control... Besides, pro-russian separatists have handed over ALL physical evidence to international investigators which means you would've heard of some real loud bitchin' had The Empire not been given what it asked for.
Your strawman is a bit too dry, I would say. Consult your handlers and try, try again!
Its like some weird out-of-body experience with you guys.
"Nice attempt to maneuver through my previous question... There's a problem, though, since I have an old-fashioned attention span that exceeds 10 minutes."
Actually, you're wrong on both counts.
You didn't ask a question, you made a statement which I'll copy & paste for you here..."Uh-huh, it sure was, and those bloody Russian "freedom fighters" still refuse to release the audio recordings."...I'd have that Attention Deficit Disorder checked out if I were you.
"Besides, pro-russian separatists have handed over ALL physical evidence to international investigators..."
You don't say?
Then why is the plane still scattered across fields of the Ukraine and pieces of it being used by "Russian freedom fighters" for roadblocks & checkpoints? Thats evidence isn't it?!?!
http://www.northjersey.com/news/malaysia-airlines-flight-17-wreckage-still-lying-in-ukraine-1.1083661
And I'm completely freelancing here dude, you however, seem to have a particular bone to pick. So, I'm gonna throw it back to you.
Who are YOUR handlers hoss?
Well it seems that you have decided there was a missile and you don't need any proof of it.
This is the stuff I love to research...
On most pressurized aircraft, if cabin pressure is lost when the cabin altitude is above 14,000 feet, compartments containing the oxygen masks will open automatically, either above or in front of the passenger... (wikipedia) But I always second source...
http://www.aopa.org/Pilot-Resources/PIC-archive/Pilot-and-Passenger-Phys...
Pay particular attention to the EPT and TUC numbers at 30K to 35K feet... If he had time to put an oxygen mask on, the cabin did not depressurize immediately...
excuse me now, but the neighbors sound like they are getting ready for deer season...
"Pay particular attention to the EPT and TUC numbers at 30K to 35K feet... If he had time to put an oxygen mask on, the cabin did not depressurize immediately..."
Wrong, they have pleanty of time - the time it takes foe the aircraft to hit the ground.
BraveSirRobin:"they have pleanty of time - the time it takes foe the aircraft to hit the ground."
It's not the amount of time it takes to hit the ground, it's the altitude when cabin pressure is lost that determines Time of Useful Consciousness (TUC). At 35,000 ft, the Effective Performance Time (EPT) and TUC are the same. You have only 30-60 seconds, not much time to figure out what has happened and to react to it.
https://www.google.com/search?q=time+of+useful+consciousness+faa&es_sm=9...
http://www.c-f-c.com/gaslink/docs/abo4.htm
It actually quite a long time. Sit there for 30 seconds, or see how far you can walk in that time, etc. Also, the aircraft does not stay at 33,000 feet, put starts to descend rapidly. also, those statistics are a rule of thumb. Many people can operate and function at higher altitude. For example, 5% of those who have summited Mount Everst have done so without supplemental O2. More can probably do so, but choose supplemental O2 for safety and help ensure they make it to the top. And these guys are not sitting there doing nothing, but walking with heavy gear.
You also understate TUC. First, the aircraft was at 33,000 feet, and TUC at that altitude is more like 1 to 2 minutes. But again, the aircraft is rapidly descending, say at 5,000 feet per minute or more, so TUC increases rapidly with loss of altitude. At 30,000 feet, TUC is 1 to 3 minutes. At 28,000 it's 2.5 to 3 minutes, and increases rapidly from there.
Also, once O2 reaches a certain level, people who have blacked out from lack of O2 wake back up and rapidly regain full functionality. Please note this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8ooGY8Jbqw
See how quickly the test subjects recover when given O2. You will see a couple of tests with drop down face masks. In one, the mask had no O2 flow. In another, the mask was overly complex, and the test subject could not don it in time. These test were done under rapid decompression conditions, and at altitude conditions higher than typical for a cruising airliner.
Again, as noted, 5% can do well at 30,000 feet even under physical labor. I also hold these TUC figures as suspect and overly dire. For example, TUC at 18,000 is stated at 20 - 30 minutes, however, most people can go days or weeks at that altitude. Some suffer altituude sickness, and physical condition does matter.
In fact, the TUC is a safty mark used for emergency proceedure planning and engineering. The limits are set on the low side to create a safety factor for the average person.
The point of all this is that most people would not have lost consciousness in the airplane. They would be wide awake and alert all the way down. If some did black out form the initial decompression, they would wake up again before they met their ultimate fate.
bbq, I know niether of yours or TIS's tenure here, and it don't matter anyway... but I'm kinda thinkin' TIS may be leaps and bounds ahead of you in many areas. For you to advise 'baby steps' to one who can likely step right over you is well, condescending.
Take your own advice, and listen to the grasshopper at your feet- or in your mouth as this hapless fucker learned;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3cweVBWoSg
Oxygen mask? Likely some poor dude w/Sleep Apnea, wearing his CPAP machine. (semi-sarc)
Oh its legit alright.
The mask had Property of Malaysian Airlines clearly visible on it.
(Written in Russian, with a Sharpie pen ;-)
TruthInSunshine:
If I walk outside just about anywhere, I'm pretty sure there's a spy satellite passing overhead at least once an hour that has the resolution capability to see me scratch my ass.
MH340 didn't vanish into thin air. "They" know exactly where it is. They just don't want it to be "found".
Look, if we're going to try trading facts, let's get the facts we want to trade straight before we try trading 'em.
The airline company in question is Malaysia Airlines, not Malaysian Airlines.
Any generic airline company that happens to be from Malaysia is a Malaysian airline, but if you're instead referring to the one this story is about, then keep to the facts: it's called Malaysia Airlines.
I expect this kind of distinction to be lost on the fucking shit-for-brains mass media and the cable news-believing public, but we here on Zero Hedge are sharper than they are, aren't we?
NO
Any other tragedy like this and we would have heard the cockpit voice recordings within 3 weeks on the nightly news.
The silence is deafening.
Indeed...Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!
That conspiracy theory metamorphed into a conspiracy fact for about 1 1/2 moths ago:
The causes of the MH17 crash are classified. Ukraine, Belgium, Netherlands and Australia signed a "non-disclosure agreement"
Carlos lives next door to Mordechi Vanunu.
Carlos moved to Australia and, tragically, died of strangulation during an in flight oxygen mask incident.
Actually most large radar guided SAM missiles dont physically hit their intended target. They explode 10-20 yards away and spray a bunch of shrapnel with a shaped charge towards the plane.
Was just about to post this.
Contrary to Michael Bay movies, the plane does not instantly explode in a ball of fire. Usually in the event of decompression or massive altitude loss the masks auto-deploy and as per the pre-flight demo, people are conditioned to don them.
Was honestly shocked this was not thrown up (sic) on RT first. But whatever.
Timeline:
Aircraft was flying along on a new course
Buk-tube flew towards them, likely hit the tail or a wing (since the cockpit and most of the mainbody was found intact)
Loss of tail means go directly to freefall & tailspin
Cross-stress caused airframe to break apart
Shrapnel likely killed most of the passengers, the negative-g's caused by the massive drop a few thousand feet would have caused the rest & pilots to black out
Anywhere between hearing the DAR static hiss of the tube/impact event the pilot could have manually pulled the O2 switch. Failing that, the plane did it for him after it went from 45 to 15 in 5 min.
So between the second of impact, and the 10 min. it required to reconnect with the earth, it is possible people, even in a half-lucid state pulled the o2 mask onto their face before impact as they were trained by the 21 year old mincome employee to do. Lack of DNA implies it was pulled on, with no time to actually puff up the bags.
TLDR: There are plenty of fishy shit in the world. This is just Alex Jones level bullshit. Feel free to refute if qualified, IHS has Janes' online if you really want to make a duststorm out of this shit.
You miss the whole point.
There are obviously TWO reports on the incident.How else could that Dutch minister know this ?
The fact the second one remains hidden , makes your theory highly unlikely.
So what is in the scecond report ?
There´s a just preliminary report out, not more. And of course government/cabinet members get some information early. What is so unusual here?
That leaked info about a person with a mask is no proof or evidence for anything. Fact is we still don´t know what happened.
Doesn't work that way in any Govt. I've done work for.
They get to read the report before its released, so they can approve/edit it.
They ALWAYS want it in writing.
In which case the oxygen mask reference was removed on purpose.
You can't have it both ways.
Cabinet members/high ranking officials get much more information on all kinds of topic than what is written in public reports. And they get it much earlier than the public. If you don´t know that you never worked for a government other than cleaning the streets or delivering the mail.
So we now KNOW you are a paid Govt. troll.
Hook, line ,and sinker.
Their permanent civil servants brief them, and those guys always want it in writing.
Actually..... Only the data that is used in the final conclusion, will be published.
The rest remains in the drawer.
The final report MUST be agreed upon by the governments of The Netherlands, Belgium, Australia and Ukraine.
This is part of the "non-disclosure" agreement, signed in secret about 10th of august, of which the existence was disclosed the 29th of august.
Nice, neatly wrapped up in a NATO flag. The corpse of democratic representation.
Timmermans, Rutte and all responsible are simply TRAITORS.
Speculation: It wouldn't surprise me one bit if they had foreknowledge of MH-17 being shot down.
A preliminary report that doesn't mention anything about the victims death, autopsy results, nothing!
Umm, the sharp turning manuever after initial impact, suggesting retreat to the nearest airfield? I'm nitpicking ...
There you go thinking. That is not permitted. Get back in line....slave.
Or trying to turn away from the jet shooting at them.
"The Boeing was hit, but still managed to stay in the air. However, in doing so, the Boeing turned 180 degrees to the left."
For 14km? To crash in Ukraine, rather than Russian Federation as planned?
"On July 23rd, Anna-News published an interview with retired Russian Air Force colonel Aleksand Zhilin, a frequent military commentator on Ukraine’s Civil War.
“According to the colonel, at 16:19:45 (local time, and 5:19pm Moscow time), a Ukrainian jet fighter targeted the Boeing with an air-to-air missile R-60. The missile damaged the right engine of the Boeing. The Boeing was hit, but still managed to stay in the air. However, in doing so, the Boeing turned 180 degrees to the left. It was at this moment that the false flag attack started falling apart. According to Zhilin, part of the plan controlled by the US with Ukrainian hands executing it was to have the Boeing crash past the southern frontline by the Ukrainian-Russian border. Had the Boeing fallen there, securing the crash sites with the troops in response to international pressure was on top of all else effectively to allow Kiev to lift the encirclement of its brigades (currently pinned down by rebels) in the southern pocket by the Russian border.”
Good ammount of deep research here:
http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/07/25/mh17-verdict-real-evidence-points-...
"a Ukrainian jet fighter targeted the Boeing with an air-to-air missile R-60. The missile damaged the right engine of the Boeing. The Boeing was hit, but still managed to stay in the air. However, in doing so, the Boeing turned 180 degrees to the left."
If the right engine were hit, the left engine would remain active with thrust. The Left engine would push the aircraft to the RIGHT, not the left. The pilot, in such an emergency, would not not fight the tendency of the aircraft to yaw right if he wanted to turn. If the flight controls were damaged and the pilot was not in control, the aircraft woudl turn RIGHT, not left.
Also, if the aircraft had enough time to turn 180 degrees, the pilot would have plenty of time call mayday. A trip 777 would take more than a minute to produce this turn, and if fighting against his port engine, probably a lot longer. The standard turn rate of a 777 is 2 degrees per second at 15 degree bank.
You do not have to think much to know the Russian "Colonel" is full of it.
avilerat is exactly correct (except negative g cause red-out, but that's semantics)
think critically. the amount of hysteria on here is getting too high.
i read this with an open mind, but this is non-news. it's irrelevant and it is not a smoking gun either way.
No kidding.
So you are saying the passengers would be full of shrapnel from the missile. Certainly that detail was released along with a full forensic investigation to determine if said shrapnel had explosives residue as well and the metalurgic and chemical properties of the metal and explosive residue, right?
Oh, you are backing conclusions made on no evidence when said evidence should be readily available. I see.
Not really, the particular missile warhead in this case is called "expanding rod" They are big chuncks of continuous linked metal of what looks like a big metal net. This expands the missile kill zone; the difference between a spear and a cast net fisherman. Victims would not be full of shrapnel but, if hit by part of the warhead, cut in two. Most of the aircraft and most of the passangers would not be harmed (directly) by the warhead which is designed to inflict structural damage on the airplane.
BTW, the stuff from that Russian "Colonel" is ridiculous.
You ever tried to do anything in zero Gs? One minute you're flying along happily, the next minute you're falling. How long does it take you to get your shit together? What if you're in a tailspin? I think you've got about a minute till you hit the ground, so that should give you a bit of time to come to your senses.
Next time you're at the fairground, try the roller coasters and the MegaDrop. Go up in a chopper and practice autorotations or stalls in an aeroplane. While you're doing these activities, don't forget that you've had plenty of time to get ready for what is coming.
I suppose, out of a whole passenger aircraft, one or two would have the presence of mind to don a mask. I can't argue one way or the other. Just giving yas a couple of things to think about.
"Buk-tube flew towards them, likely hit the tail or a wing (since the cockpit and most of the mainbody was found intact)"
Fuck you, troll!
Shocking analysis of the shooting down of MH17
Buk-tube flew towards them, likely hit the tail or a wing
What about the cockpit damage?
So you're saying there were many fragments from the missile embedded within the airframe wreckage that was utterly undetectable by the investigators. Good to know and thank you for confirming the falseflagginess.
Photos were released of fuselage sections with many holes. That was the first indication of a SAM hit.
"That was the first indication of bullet strikes. "
Fixed it for ya.
I have saved downloaded pictures of the cockpit that show BOTH entrance AND exit holes in closeup.
This aircraft was shot at from BOTH sides, and SPECIFIALLY targeting the COCKPIT.
I've been reading the comments, and there are some very OBVIOUS paid misdirectors here. Some talking about the tail being shot off and the PILOTS could have pushed a button and dropped the oxygen masks and the aircraft being in the air for a period of several MINUTES after being hit, and...
Ukranian jets open fire. One engine hit. Plane makes a 180-degree turn. OH SHIT! WRONG WAY! Ukranian jets target cockpit. Pilots (and probably people in the front as well) killed, Plane nosedives. Video footage looks like about a 30 to 35 degree angle. Interesting flight manifest, as well. a bunch (over a hundred) of doctors flying to Moscow for something. Varied backgrounds, but microbiology and stuff like that, as I recall reading. Pictures of bodies on the ground that have no apparent wounds or even blood. Almost like they were dead before they hit (or before the plane took off), like cadavers pre-loaded. FUCKING REALLY UNWORLDLY SHIT. Kind of like WTC1, 2, and 7. Kind of like the official FBI crime stat page on Conneticut showing NO homicides in Newtown (think SANDY HOOK ELEMENTARY SCHOOL) in the year 2012.
What happened to MH370, anyway? DON'T TELL ME that the 'PTB' government air traffic controllers and the thousands of satellites encircling the earth didn't track this flight. THAT story is BULLSHIT, and you can BET YOUR ASSETS that there are those that KNOW where it is. ALL Boeing aircraft from 757 up have built-in software that allows overriding of pilot commands and remote control from ground sources (that locks the flight crew OUT), and the pilots are largely REDUNDANT now. if you don't KNOW this, you haven't done your research.
The NETHERLANDS has their airline called KLM that hit the Pan Am 747 with one of their own in Tenerife, the Canary Islands ON THE RUNWAY. They managed to get the blame put on PAN AM even though the evidence OVERWHELMINGLY PROVES that the blame was ALL on KLM. It BANKRUPTED Pan Am. I was no fan of Juan Trippe, because of his dealings with Howard Hughes, but WTF?
FUCK these Dutch bastards. they are proven LYING COCKSUCKERS.
That's a fact. I don't see what wearing an oxygen mask has to do with some big revelation. The masks would have dropped at the moment cabin pressure was lost from the myriad projectiles from the missile. Much ado about nothing. The aircraft was NOT exploded to smithereens in mid air.
TUC at 33K feet is what? Do your own research. I doubt I could put on an oxygen mask in that amount of time.
Time of useful consciousness at 33,000...roughly 30-45 seconds as I recall. Still you are correct the great majority of people can't do it under the best of conditions much less in a plane with gaping holes plunging toward the earth.
Hypoxia's onset depends on the individual-- some can stay alert and functional for quite a while without O2.
In the altitude chamber we practiced this, experienced actual rapid decompression in order to recognize the symptoms of hypoxia. Not bragging, but I was still good and cogent after a full minute at 30k with no supplimental oxygen, and only put my mask on to hurry an end to the damn exercise (had a hot date with a hot aeromed/flight nurse lined-up)
Me? I'm ex-aircrew professionally trained by USAF Flight Surgeons on this stuff. And I'm willing to say that from what I've been able to gather in the media that it's unlikely that those on the flight died peacefully and unaware of their fate.
And if there's nothing to hide, why haven't the goddamn tapes been released?
I looked up the info, and I can't argue a single point you make. I was going by info published by the AOPA's website. They gave the TUC numbers of 30 seconds at 30K feet, 20 seconds at 35K feet.
I smell a dirty diaper.
An American, not US subject.
"Is that a load of shit in your pants, or just the propaganda you're trying to feed me?!"
So in summary
1/- The Cockpit voice recorder must match with the Flight controllers. Voice /timing and digitally
2/Oxegen masks cannot be just grabbed from above your head. They are like airbags and drop when required, either by pressure drop switch or (manual overide take some time to do that)
3/- It takes approx 5-10 second to apply one over your head, longer if your disorientated and in panic mode.
4/- It take 20 mins to down load a voice recorder and all the black box information (Air speed, yaw, flap position, elevation, pitch .... and 34 other recorded bit of information from the cockpit and motor computers ..and 12 months to report it fully ?????????
5/- If one passenger had a mask, all the masks had dropped .... and it would be noted in the blak box
6/- The visual evidence of wreakage must match the electronic memory of the black box. Question? .. were oxegen masks found delpoyed in the wreakage??
7/- If it looks like a Turd, pick it up, if it smells and it feels like a Turd, then taste it, if it tastes smells, feels, and looks like a Turd then your likely to have a Turd. In other words when all of the observations have been made and facts cross checked a Turd cannot be a Duck. This Turd is never going to fly like a Duck
Isn't MH17 the USSA/CIA false flag designed to demonize Russia and justify heavy sanctions as part of the overthrow of Putin in favor of Atlanticist Oligarchs?
The other part of this story that everyone seems to have forgotten is that Putin's aircraft-- with very similar markings to Malaysia Air livery-- passed through the same general airspace within a few hours of the downing of MH-17.
No he didn't. He's not that stupid to fly his own aircraft over a hot zone.
Even Obama wouldn't fly over Syria/Iraq.
Next.
Putin wasn't flying over a hot zone. Neither was MH-17, until it was diverted.
Putin's plane wouldn't fly anywhere near Ukraine. He ain't dumb or naive unlike some other president I know.
It was hours earlier and furthur northwest.
Indeed. Surprisingly close in space and time, when you think about it... Just a big coincidence, I'm sure.
I do know that an incredibly huge amount of effort is put into training pilots for target recognition. There must be some reason for that. Friendly fire would certainly be the kind of PR disaster that a troubled administration would want to cover up. The bottom line is we'll never know for sure because there will always be conflicting accounts of what happened.
The "general airspace" was over Poland, and yes, hours earlier.
Also, a missile engagement would occur beyond visual range, unless they used a small short-range AA IR seeker missile, which probably would not have brought down the airliner.
By all accounts, that is, not loopy nut job accounts, this aircraft was shot down by a large surface to air missile, so the livery means nothing.
You might be brave sir, but you sure are stoopid.
Any missile exploding next to the cockpit would be capable of downing this aircraft, as would the subsequent ventilation of the cockpit by 30mm cannon fire.
No surface to air smoke trail = no surface to air missile.
Please provide a limk to the "30mm" holes. There are lots of things that can put hole sin aircraft. It's fairly easy to do.
Where are the contrails from the fighters that shot down the airliner? No contrails, no fighters.
In fact, there would be no smoke trail in a terminal phase of a missile attack at range beyond it's motor burn. In fact, a missile motor burns only for a few seconds. It rides the rest of the way on momentum. The BUC's motors are done in 15 seconds, so the engine is done at about 7 miles downrange, ergo, no smoke trail beyond that.
Please note the video at this link. It shows MRLS being fired. Notice how the smoke trails end after the rocker motors finish their burn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WxP6rkfA3U
So, a jet engine, like that in a fighter, burns continuously, and therefore, produces contrails, continuously. A missile with a rocket motor produces a contrail for as long as the motor burns, which is not very long. Therefore, no contrail, no fighter, and more likely a missile at range beyond motor burn.
Also, to accuratly aim at a cockpit of a jet, the shooter woould have to get REAL close. Actual air-to-air connon are not that accurate. They produce a lot of vibration that throws off shooting and act realy more like a shot gun, except fo the stupid Russian 30mm, which has a slow rate of fire and limited ammo. It takes getting real close and real marksman to get a hit. The Russian fires one or two rounds at a time. Try shooting a machine gun some time. The only accurate round is the first unless you have a mongo heavy and well recoiled mount. US aircraft use gatling guns to create a wide area spray, more like and shot gun effect, which gives a much greater chance of hit. A close grouping of multiple 30mm holes from a Russian fighter? No way.
lastly, a 30mm would not be the best weapon choice to bring down a large aircraft, at least not if you wanted to do it quickly and catestrophically. This is because a large aircraft has a lot of space devoid of critical components. You can pump in a lot or rounds and not hit anything vital. It certainly would not cause instant destruction of the targeted aircraft, giving the pilot plenty of time to complain on his radio.
A big ass missile, though, woudl cause instant and catastrophic damage to the aircraft.
If you take your tin foil hat off, you may actually learn something.
http://www.anderweltonline.com/fileadmin/user_upload/PDF/Cockpit-MH017.pdf
You're welcome.
Thanks for the link. I can go in great detail as to why these are not 30mm holes, if you like.
Down grade facts all you want looney tune tin foil nut cranks.
The last play of a losing party is to resort to ad homenim attacks, trying to associate their personal characters with generalized and false representations of people who are spanking your ass with facts.
"LOONEY TUNE"
"TIN FOIL"
"NUT"
"CRANKS"
They cannot refute any argument by using the already proven FALSE lies and supposedly 'acceptable' facts/fables that have been totally DISPROVEN, and generally have no training from their superiors except to resort to 'name-calling' (like a small child would do).
Shall I call this one, or will someone else call it for me?
I shal call it for you... Looney tune tin foil hat nut cranks. they is what they is.
Since we are along this line, I can conclude that you are either;
a) a moron without the mental capacity to handle complex information without being handheld by the government telling you what is what.
or
b) a paid shill trying to deflect the discussion or promote the government story while degrading other participant that do not adhere to the official story.
Personaly I think a bit of both.
What stupidity - if this was a "false flag" they would tell the passengers? That's about the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
The obvious cause is that the masked fell upon depressurization and a passenger in an intact section had time to don the mask. 35,000 is a loooong way down. It takes time to hit the ground, and it was big aircraft and would not be totally disentegrated in the air by the missile hit. It is quite certain many passengers survived until the aircraft hit the ground. "Oh, they could not survive without O2 up there!" Sure they can. People climb Mount Everest all the time without O2, and the aircraft is going down in altitude at a fairly good clip.
Now, this does not prove one way or the other who shot the plane down, but this is really quite stupid.
Take the tin foils off. Reality can suck, but it is, none the less, reality.
ok so lets follow your "theory" of a missile shooting down the plane, where is the evidence of this, it appears to me that US and its allies seem to not want to release any info, don't you find that a bit suspicious? I suspect they discovered it was a Ukrainian blunder and they are trying desperately to cover it up....of course thats just what I am seeing...(removing tinfoil hat)
The theory of a missile, and a large one at that, is due to the sudden catastophic nature of the aircraft's destruction in mid-flight, which is I think not debated. Cannon fire would not cause sudden catastrophic damage. There is also video evidence of soldiers from the missile launcher clebrating their kill which was very quickly released.
I do not think the aircraft was intentionally shot down by any side. Who ever did it probably thought is was a legitimate military target. It is certainly not the first time this has happened to an airliner, a famous case being the US Navy's destruction of an Airbus over the Persion Gulf filled with muslim pilgrams. Careless people with deadly weapons often end up carelessly killing innocent people.
And one thing about the Russian military, of which the Ukrainian military is a direct decendent and so shares this common trait, is that it is both trigger happy and careless, and often drunken to boot. It is quite possible either side did this, but very unlikely, in my view, that it was intentional or that there is any crazy conspiracy, at least prior to the event... sure, afterwards, everyone wants to cover their butts and blame someone else, and I am sure they conspired to do so, but the crazy crap on this site is simply that... crazy crap.
.
MH17 who?
Yeah! is it a virus? TV show?
#BringBackOurGirls <Sad Face>
Methinks the wheels on the short bus are starting to come off.
Maybe our Vic was wearing an Ebola mask?
When world-class professional liars start having problems keeping their stories straight, you know shit is getting real.
It's not like the old days when they had time to think about the response, I'm surprise it was not revealed on his Facebook page.
You got that right, BB.
They don't care any more if you see through their lies. They're not trying to convince people like you and me. They're just SAYING IT, hoping the knee-jerk reaction gives them the immediate leverage they need. If not, they walk away from it and try a different lie. Again. And again. And again.
They're counting on the memory hole to eat the past lies. And so far it seems to be working beautifully. Benghazi, IRS, AP phone scandal, Fast & Furious, NSA... the list is endless.
+100
exactly,
example: When Aurora theater shooting was not enough knee jerk to get the sheeple on the Aussie "turm them in" bandwagon..... well lets try again at Sandy Hoax.....hmmm, that didn't work either whats next.....?
or
Syria, WMDs by Assad!!! ohh wait, it was the rebals, also seems folks remembered the Iraq WMDs hoax too well, lets try something else ...ISIS!!!
Between the Mil-Ind Complex speech and the secret societies speech; Eisenhower and Kennedy gave us the heads up.
Unfortunately its taken a long time for us to wake up. But we are, and therin lies the problem for the 0.001%. maybe too little too late, but Bundy Ranch was a good accounting for us to know we are not alone. Even though many did not go; the tailgate talk it has generated axcross this country has united many good folks.
Man, do I miss America.
Keep your powder dry my fellow Appleseeds, and God Bless the Republic.
"Was TWA 800 Shot Down By a Military Missile?" 3 FAA investigators waited about 20 years to come forward and state the FBI told them to STFU and bury any theories not advanced/approved by the federal gov. These government employees wanted to wait to come forward to retain their pensions. There's a documentary out on it with the investigators who present so much persuasive evidence that anyone but an idiot wouldn't be convinced of the obvious. They've got dogs testing positive, chemists testing positive on parts of the plane for explosives, FBI agents sneaking into th e wharehouse at night to steal and replace parts of said plane, dozens of witnesses who said they saw a fast moving projectile chasing the aircraft, then an explosion then disintegration of the plane.
These guys do not claim the military shot it down. They do profess their belief it was a missile attack or onboard explosive, and not an internal fuel explosion. Just want to make that clear. They do not put the balme on anyone or any organization.
The problem with small surface to air missile theory is that for a missile, like a SA-7, to both hit and to bring down the aircraft would have to have been on heck of a miracle shot. These do happen, note RPG hits on Black Hawk helicopters in flight in Somolia during the famous "Black Hawk Down" episode, but it does lower the odds that the small missile theory is correct.
They do present a good case, however, and it's worth looking at.
We'll know more about this when Timmermans is found having issues with nail guns while jumping off a building down into an embankment.
The Dutch don't lie as well as Americans - they are a security risk and a hole in the dyke!
The Ukranians got information from Obummer's NSA slaves that Putin's plane was flying over Ukraine. Putin's plane changed course but the Buk missile system operators never got the memo. Total incompetence is Obummer's mantra. That and lying.
Timmermans is the biggest whore in dutch politics.
Looks like he mixed up the European Flight with the Asian Flight disapearence.........I can't keep them straight either
The Asian flight was loaded with engineers, and when they died their company got rich(er).
When the Ukrainian flight went down, it had a whole lot of world class AIDS/Ebola researchers that died, just before Ebola broke out in Africa.
Got it straight now?
Of course! The Ebola Researchers !
...I feel so ignorant on the obvious, right now....Jeez, I should have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express, last night..
Thanks for setting me straight!
http://www.intellihub.com/italian-publication-claims-top-ebola-expert-mu...
I'm up voting ya!
That would have been interesting indeed. Not sure that it was a whole lot, though:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17
It was later revised down to six.
Wikipedia, huh?
YUP. The revisions there are almost FRIGHTENING. I suppose you linked to the 'Crikey.com.AU' article and read it for clarity. An UNNAMED ATTENDEE at the conference gave this word out. Wikipedia sure has great sources!
I think I'd like to see the FLIGHT MANIFEST ONE MORE TIME, but I'm just too lazy to look for it.
Crikey.com' reporter Myriam Robin. Straight from the old country (looking at the picture of her).
http://www.crikey.com.au/2014/07/23/100-aids-researchers-on-mh17-why-and...
You best fact-check your sources, hoss.
Just a few days ago Nuland was back in Kiev for the 1st time in months.
Did she deliver a "narrative" to the retards in power there to deflect the impact of these revelations?
That kunt actually looked real nice and innocent and sweet in her secondary school pics, a spitting image of Anne Frank. And look at the monster she turned into now, which brings me to the point, you never know how kids will turn out these days. Hitler was a real cute kid in his day too.
Back in the days, the ol days, you could tell with kids. I mean Atilla the Hun, he was shooting folks with arrows through the heart from the moment he could pull the bow string back. Back then you knew what you had early on.
A good way to know how they will turn out though is just what kind of culture and belief system they are brought up in ;)
Psychopaths are generally pretty sharp dressers, with their 'Narcissistic Personality Disorder' and all.
They're only sloppy in the movies.
Hitler looked pretty darn heroic in his navy-and-white cape outfit.
Capes are like that, I guess: everybody with a normal BMI looks pretty sharp. Maybe even Goering, too.
Goering had your BMI, if your avatar is correct lol. I always wondered if Anne Frank would of been as heroic as Vicky Nuland. We certainly knew how Nuland turned out.
My bet is that Annie would of been a spitting image of Nuland when she grew up, after all they read the same book of Values growing up LOL
I didn't know that Anne Frank had such a foul mouth!
Maybe she did but it was just kept out of the news not to tarnish her squeaky clean image. After all it was written in Dutch not English, maybe lost in translation. Who knows, certainly if kids today are any example, foul language is learned early on, its all over mainstream media here, I am sure same people owned it back then too and were putting out the same tasteless trash over the airwaves. Hollywood was certainly around before the days of Anne Frank, same studios and same business as usual.
Oops!
Meanwhile; on Diego Garcia.................
What could go wrong?
My boy now needs to keep his head on a swivel for nail guns. Probably forever.
You don't say? The West lied again? That's never happened before, has it?
Um, yeah. Settle down, skippy. Politicians from all points of the compass do pretty well when it comes to lying.
What is the big deal?
missile still took plane down
is it surprising someone (a few?) able to don mask when decompression occurred?
Big plane ... a missile isn't going to obliterate it
If it was a BUK missle - no way he had this mask on...
on the other hand, if it was air-to-air missiles, or 20mm cannon, then there would have been time for the oxygen masks to deploy.
not my territory here, but why do we assume direct hit in middle? Could have hit tail, wing, nose wherever.
Still don't see a story no matter what type of missile
The BUK missile would have obliterated the plane no matter where it impacted. It's a 20-foot long missile carrying 150 lbs of explosives.
"It's just a flesh wound!"
if that big, pilots might have seen it and maneuvered ... at least enough to avoid direct hit. Again we're talking a few seconds here all that is needed
You think so?
High energy objects; cute. very cute. perfectly round 30mm high energy objects. so whenever something is hit by highenergy objects; plural, from it's exterior it was caused by a missile. Perfect.
You have to change your name: everytime i see it, it reminds me of the day in tenth grade i went to have my IQ tested, big secret of answering questions: what is a hot dog, what is a baseball bat, and so on in stupid.
But when you have an golden haired goddess with size d that float on air and a face and voice unlike anything you have ever seen since then. Hollywood is full of hags, that vary memory is in its own surreal world of HS.
No I only answered my name, baseball, baseball bat, and hotdog correctly but the poetry i wrote on the back of that test got me a passing grade.
Oh and a life time of...Maybe shouldn't change your name after all.
hey it gives people something to talk about. It's called click-bait.
It's the coverup that is the problem. Always the with the lies ...
BUK would decompress instantly.
The naval version carries a 70 KG (154 lb RDX) warhead most likely a continuous rod type, If a BUK hit it the plane was cut in two in 1/100th second at 500+ miles an hour. The aerodynamic forces would be gargantuan, no chance he puts on his mask. Trained fighter pilot would not be able to do so, explosive decompression at 30K feet and immediate violent g maneuvers.. This whole world is starting to smell of conspiracy..
RDX - Whoa. I read once upon a time RDX was 5x the power of TNT. 154lbs of RDX= 770lbs of TNT. WHOA Nellie!
Having seen what just 5lbs of C-4 can do to 24" diameter tree trunks, me thinks 154lbs of RDX would result in the raining down of tiny pieces of aircraft and bloody meat and bone fragments that would be flash frozen on descent from the -20 degree temps at 33,000 feet
So big chucks of plane crashes intact?
20mm cannon or small air-to-air missile .
Air to air missile is on heat seek, so that item would tear an engine off. any evidence of such?
20mm is an AP explosive, meaning it would penetrate aluminum skin and explode against hard points, structure of the airframe, internal solid components. etc .
it would be interesting to see if RADAR confirms any nearby aircraft at time of incident.
If not,
Now think about this.
Who has aircraft which can deploy air to air missiles and yet not show up on radar?
F117 has been decommissioned, but Wait....
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/23/f22-bomber-raptor-jet-us-sy...
All this does is lend more credence to the theory that the plane was taken out by 30mm machine gun fire, not a missile.
It's not a "theory" it's a fact. A German air crash investigator went there and took pictures of the 30mm holes in the fuselage parts. it was shot down by Ukrainian Planes. The CIA loves this kind of shit cause there's only a couple of people to control in the whole scam; and one of them is their own pilot ; t hey don't let t he locals fuck up things like this. Remember that President of So. American whatever it was, t hat got blown out of his office by a P-51 firing .50cal. guns; t he plane belonged to t he whatsit government; but we later found out the pilot was CIA specialist.
very strange that no leak thus far of the Junta SU's pilot's name
T hat's because he's a CIA contract pilot flown in for the job. Jesus.