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Dallas Hospital Worker Tests Positive For Ebola In First Person-To-Person Transmission On US Soil
And then there was #2. A few hours ago, Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital, announced that a health care worker who cared for dying Ebola patient Thomas Eric Duncan, has tested positive for the virus after a preliminary test, officials said early Sunday. If confirmed, it would be the first known person-to-person transmission of the disease in the United States. The name of the patients is currently unknown, what is known however, is that the worker was "considered to be at low risk for contracting the virus" and the he or she was wearing full protective gear when treating Duncan, suggesting - yet again - that there is a transmission mechanism which is not accounted for under conventional protocol.
Confirmatory testing of the second case on U.S. soil will be conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, the statement from the Texas Department of State Health Services said.
The worker reported a fever late Friday and was isolated and referred for testing. "We knew a second case could be a reality, and we've been preparing for this possibility," said Dr. David Lakey, commissioner of the Texas Department of State Health Services. "We are broadening our team in Dallas and working with extreme diligence to prevent further spread."
Alas, until Friday night, said spread was once again completely uncontained if said worker was able to interact with countless others, who will become symptomatic only after they in turn have spread the disease to an unknown number of their own friends, acquaintances and co-workers.
The statement added that people who had contact with the health care worker after symptoms emerged "will be monitored based on the nature of their interactions and the potential they were exposed to the virus."
This announcement came hours after New York's JFK Airport began an Ebola screening program, taking the temperatures of passengers arriving from three West African Countries.
The full statement from the Texas Department of State Health Services.
Texas Patient Tests Positive for Ebola
A health care worker at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital who provided care for the Ebola patient hospitalized there has tested positive for Ebola in a preliminary test at the state public health laboratory in Austin. Confirmatory testing will be conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta.
The health care worker reported a low grade fever Friday night and was isolated and referred for testing. The preliminary ?test result was received late Saturday.
"We knew a second case could be a reality, and we've been preparing for this possibility," said Dr. David Lakey, commissioner of the Texas Department of State Health Services. "We are broadening our team in Dallas and working with extreme diligence to prevent further spread."
Health officials have interviewed the patient and are identifying any contacts or potential exposures. People who had contact with the health care worker after symptoms emerged will be monitored based on the nature of their interactions and the potential they were exposed to the virus.
Ebola is spread through direct contact with bodily fluids of a sick person or exposure to contaminated objects such as needles. People are not contagious before symptoms such as fever develop.
Here is Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins, Mayor Mike Rawlings and Dr. Daniel Varga held a news conference Sunday morning to inform the public that a health care worker at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas test positive for the Ebola virus after coming in close contact with Ebola patient Thomas Eric Duncan.
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"Say goodby to the first thru fifth amendments..."
They'll certainly come up with an excuse to start confiscating guns.
Yes. Because in an outbreak, everyone is real fucking excited about going door to door confiscating stuff from scared and possibly infected people.
Right. You guys are not thinking ths through.
See, SOMEONE HAS TO ACTUALLY DO IT. They can give all the orders they want.
The pilots and air crews strike and go home.
The doctors and nurses say piss off and they go home.
The cops grab some gear and go home.
Joe Private US Army caps his captain in the grape and says fuck you, I'm not going and hunkers down.
On and on....
Stuff slows down, real fast. THAT, is the only paradox at work here.
Laws won't stop this now. Sorry.
This is showing everyone A COMPLETE LACK of control by the state. Some might get used to it, provided they miss the big butt bleed.
1st thru 5th? How about the preamble thru the 27th amendment. Certainly article I is dead already.
"Never let a (manufactured) crisis go to waste."
That was just a stepping stone to announce his candidacy for the presidential nomination. A man for the people who can,though just words, stop a bio hazardous level 4 agent from killing us all.
I hope he doesn't make the rounds here. I may swoon if I shake his hand.
Miffed
"I see dead people"
Make sure you wear clean shorts every day then, the taste of Ebola coming out your arse is worse than a day-old Mexican Happy Meal.
It won't be a big deal..... YET. ( unless you happen to be that nurse )
It WLL be a big deal when it gets into Mexico and the countries south of them......
If you think we have an influx now..... just wait..... Can you see what Mexico City will look like with 20 million there sick with ebola?
Latin America ebola penetration is biggest danger to the USA.
You are completely correct. The biggest danger to the usa is not the occurrence of isolated breaks of ebola cases from people coming from west Africa. For those of us that know latin america, the biggest danger is for ebola to reach it. Outside the major cities, the quality of the health care system is not better than that of Liberia. This situation is the result of decades of abuse by the bankster class and by vulture funds like NML Elliott. Who rather than helping them fight local corruption, have encouraged it for their own personal gain.
If ebola becomes endemic in latin america, then it'd be game over for real for us in the usa... Since at that point we will have unstoppable multiple point vector penetration of the virus, something that is impossible to stop in time.
Mexico City is largest, most densely populated city in the world, with 30 million residents.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metropolitan_areas_by_population
Strange, Lagos, Nigeria didnt make the list. Why is that? It has between 17 and 21 million people according to 2010 census data. Is it gone?
You know, I'm encouraged that they've kept it out of Lagos so far....
I wonder for how long?
I don't know about anyone else but, I'll be watching what happens to Lagos.
I think it all comes down to contact tracing and the ability to do it and keep doing it successfully.
When they catch it and keep it from outrunning your resources to track it, that's when you have it running rampant..... but, as cases double in 3 weeks and double again in 3 more... Lagos will be the place to watch next.... not Dallas... ( and, I live 40mi from Dallas )
Of course, I'll be watching Dallas too but, I don't think the cases will get out of control from these two cases.
It was in Lagos for a hot second, then the "All is well!" was sounded, havent heard a peep out of them since. Strange.
Nothing strange about it, road ranger.
It's called lies...and reading the script to the camera at gunpoint.
It will be a big deal once prostitutes in the US get it.
While the prostitutes are still well enough to conduct 'business', think of all the married men who will get infected and in turn infect their wives and children, who will in turn infect their co-workers/classmates. The married men will tell themselves they have the flu at the first onset of symptoms, and will only fess up once they start vomiting/passing blood.
Eyeroller
Don't forget fishing trips. I once caught a nasty STD whilee on a fishing trip.
This isn't a slow, silent infection with a long latency, so prostitution as a vector isn't going to be a big deal.
You want big, once it gets to food handlers and grade school aged children, you'll get big.
Day care centers.
I wouldnt even drive by one, even pre-Ebola Tejas....
Cesspit kiddie Petri dishes growing real nasty shit. Booger eating, snot nosed brats dipped in shit for 6 hrs a day. No thank ya. I'd corn hole a 3 tooth truck stop hooker and juggle 3 hypodermic needles I found in an alley way before I'd ever set foot in Kindercare. Hygiene has a hierarchy.
Ugly things bloom in the places you take for granted.
I disagree a little bit with what you're saying. I read a Canadian study on EBOV that suggests that the saliva begins containing viral loads well before outward symptoms begin. Meaning any food sharing or sexual contact from "apparently" healthy people will happen.
That's true, but compare the maximum exposure of a prostitute (say 4-8 per day for a really busy one) to that of a single kid or food worker, either of which will be able to expose way more than 4-8 people in a day. Plus prostitutes see a very narrow segment of the population, the exposure to the general poulation just isn't there for them to be a very good vector compared to kids and food workers.
Putting it another way, if you're trying to stop the epidemic, you shut down child care centers and salad bars, not streetwalkers. Ebola is much more like the flu than it is like HIV.
Yeah----Empty.
You WILL be eating your shit stained shorts.
Here is the problem: The first few patients will get the best of care. But, if health care workers start to perceive that the safeguards aren't protecting them, many will start staying away. Ditto with any other Government officials (TSA, law enforcement) who are even less dedicated. At that point, the System starts to implode and you wil quicklyl have a bigger outbreak with lots of people getting no care. Under those circumstances, it can go from contained to out of control really fast.
Which is exactly what happened in Liberia, Sierra Leone, Guinea, and soon-to-be-announced Nigeria...
I read that Sierra Leone has basically given up on new hospitals being built in time, and is issuing "die at home kits". Yes, it could happen here.
At least in Africa they're getting some "home care" kits. When the health-care system in the US is completely overwhelmed with Ebola cases, people will be instructed to go to Wal-Mart to buy: Buckets, gloves, bleach, and Gatorade.
I'm picturing the super-market scene from WWZ...
Think the hospital flashack scene from "Walking Dead" season 1, the one where Shane tries to get Rick out. That's what I see happening.
I agree that if it slipp beyond triple digits then the chances of things going really bad become quite high, though I don't think such a stage will be reached in wealthier countries. Even Nigeria seemingly managed to contain the first wave (not that I have overwhelming faith in all statements made by Nigerian officials).
This is a disease that will be limited to poor countries unless something about the virus changes quite a lot (which is unlikely), consequently the only thing which suggest to me that a larger outbreak can happen in the US is the relatively large amount of poor people in this country.
EDIT: Another theoretical possibility is of course the government deliberately spreading the virus to shut down civil liberties, but I currently see no sufficient reason to believe this is, or will be happening.
You stated your opinion,where are the facts. I don't know you so why would I believe your bullshit ?
I basing my opinion on both previous outbreaks (which has all been limited in scale despite taking place in impoverished communities), the nature of the current outbreak (apparent inability to spread in Nigeria and in/to neighbouring countries such as Senegal and Ivory Coast), but most importantly the scientific consensus.
Yes, I know many of you will dispute scientific consensus for reasons which are understandable, but I find no reason to dispute the scientific consensus built up before this outbreak since I don't find a motivation for cover up. This consensus includes the believe that Ebola is not airborne and not contagious during the incubation period (it is easy to jump to the conclusion that Ebola is airborne because it transmit so easily through physical contact and because it might transmitted through droplets). Diseases don't just "go airborne" either, so I find it highly unlikely that the virus has changed that much from previous outbreaks.
I also view the efficiency in which the SARS outbreak was contained as an indication of the modern societies ability to shut down diseases which aren't extremely contagious.
@GeorgeWKush
Which 3 letter agency do you work for? Did you believe Obola when he said that he was not going to cum in your mouth?
they're beginning to turn people away from medical facilities in west africa. that means medical tourism. On planes with recycled air.
Examine your premises.
That may be why the death rate is flatening. Not counting the people who die at home and buried in a field.
Previous outbreaks of ebola in est-africa was bush to village and rapidly burnt itself out. What we now see is intracity and city to city outbreak. Something has changed and don´t think we fully understand this scenario.Absolutely not based on what is communicated to the public. I think you can discern a lot of emphasis on not creating panic in the TPTB´s communications which I think is ordered for a number of reasons. One of them being the fear of the economic ramifications of rapidly spreading world-wide ebola outbreak.
One of the changes in this virus is apparently the incubation period, which used to be generally only a few days. Now it is as long as 3 weeks, giving people time to move around a good bit. They could be far away from the area where they contacted the virus. The issue of being symptomatic could also be questionable. Perhaps you are feeling only slightly off for the first 12 hours or so while shedding viral contaminant.
The thing that worries me is they do not seem to have strong explanations for the path of transmission. It is true the virus has never been in densly populated area before, but still, this SEEMS different, particularly with the high incidence of infection of health care personnel attending to the sick. This seems to nag us and tug at the back of our minds that something here is new and different, and the medical "experts" are rather too smug and confident in their "knowledge" and rather uninterested in vigorously exploring, even hypothetically, potentialities outside the "current paradigm of transmission."
Also, I read a book a few years ago, sorry, but I loaned it to someone and you how that goes, so I do not have the title, that made a quite convincing case the "Black Death" in Europe was a hemoragic virus, not plague. He then saw a pattern of 400 to 600 year re-emergence of this virus, noting other outbreaks to include Asia Minor and Greece. Chillingly, in the final chapter, he concluded this great killer is still out there, laying in its natural reservoir waiting to re-emege, and the time was near, and that the primary cause of pandemic is a fundamental misundersanding of the cause and vectors of tranmission.
Why all have great confidence in our technical prowess and understanding of science and nature now. We say to ourselves that those people back then were ignorant. But they faced the great death and took great measures to keep themselves from it. They too used quarantines, and traced contacts, and many people tried to hide in seclusion from the world, and yet it spread and people died in mass.
There has been controversy for a long time regarding the identity of the disease that caused the Black Death, but archeologists have, in the fairly recent past, excavated mass graves believed to be from the plague years. The skeletons within have been found to be from the correct time period with the usual plus/minus range, and Yersinia pestis DNA has been found in the remains. Humanity has always been challenged by epidemic diseases, and we've been ripe for an outbreak for a long time. Viruses, parasites and bacteria are our only natural predators now, and to quote from Avatar, "The Great Mother protects the balance of life." It is believed by many that we dodged a bullet with SARS. Science and medical research is not without politics, you know, and dearly held theories that are not yet proven are often nevertheless rigorously defended. Also, I suspect there is a certain degree of denial going on here. Ebola is studied in a biosafety level 4 containment lab in a negative pressure room that is sealed off like a spacecraft with airlocks. Those who enter the lab to study the virus suit up into garments that are close to spacesuits with their own air supply. Double gloving is used and the cuffs at wrist and ankle are sealed with duct tape. The viruses are still handed under a sealed lab hood using gloves attached to the outside of the hood. On leaving the lab, before exiting the second airlock, a shower of bleach is used for decontamination. I doubt if this all of these protocols are from an excess of caution.
and dearly held theories that are not yet proven are often nevertheless rigorously defended.
This statement will prove to be our doom. Count on it.
I think the most important aspect is that if you do not properly understand the transmission pathways, you cannot properly stop the spread of the virus.
To that I counter: Ebola tourism. People who are infected, but have the means and connections to go to Western countries where their chances are better. That is what Mr. Duncan no doubt did. Heck, if I was in his situation, I would have done the same thing. That is exactly what we need to stop, but won't due to PC.
Wealther countries?
You ever been to america?
We are anything but a wealthy country.
A nation of debt and a dying infrastructure.
The people in Africa believed Ebola wasn't real so they avoided medical attention.
The sheeple in Amerika know it's real and are scared cause of it.
You have a few more outbreaks and the panic will be greater than the infection.
The Dallas nurse who now has Ebola could have "panicked" and got a job at another hospital in a week.
Now she's got Ebola. So much for the value of remaining complacent when a little "get your ass in gear" is needed.
If ebola turns into a pandemic, who is going to enforce taking our civil liberties? Officer butt-plug? I think not. He'll see enough poor bastards bleeding from their asses and GTFO, or catch it himself. A full blown pandemic means law of the jungle Mad Max shit with the added twist that you don't want contact with anybody who you don't know hasn't had contact with others within the past 3 weeks.
Vaquero and that with any given scenario (financial collapse, WWIII, ect) is what the majority us have been preparing for.
Stock up.
Vaquero and that with any given scenario (financial collapse, WWIII, ect) is what the majority us have been preparing for.
Amen, Brother. Amen!
El Vaquero has been stocking up. Ever read what he writes?
He has that hideaway bug out location with water already planned.
He is probably as prepared, if not more prepared, than the majority of us.
+1000000 for the sentiments.
Good luck.
You are forgeting a couple key points. First off Ebola Reston is already in America, which poses a serious threat variable. Second point, Ebola transmits in nature at a much higher contagiousness during the cold winter months. Why? two reasons. First cold weather keeps the virus fresher, longer. Second, viruses are not killed by the Blue and White UV spectrum that we see in the winter months. Thats why winter is considered "Flu Season".
Can you explain the "blue and white UV spectrum?" Cause where I come from, UV light is colorless. Do you mean that you get more longwave UV (UVA) due to sun angle and less shortwave UVB?
Winter is a great time for flu season for a lot of reasons, exactly none of which deal with UV light killing viruses.
For example, you can synthesize less Vitamin D due to lack of exposure to UV light, the humidity tends to be less so you can suffer from more micro-cracks in your skin, have a drier nasopharyngeal region, and people generally are indoors more often, which gives a better chance of transmission.
pods
Yes exxactly that. Sorry its a hydroponics thing. http://www.eyehortilux.com/images/visiblelightspectrum.jpg
The visible spectrum of light, what you and I interpret as reality, is a very small band right in the heart of the measurable spectrum of various wavelengths, or 10-5/6 , or there abouts. From what I understand, scientists are saying that Viruses do not thrive in places with lower wavelengths i.e the visible red spectrum. This is the spectrum of light most prevelant in the summer months and leading into fall, as the position of the Northern Hemisphere changes, so does the spectrum of visible light. As Fall leads into Winter this is mostly a "Blue" and "White" spectrum and from my understanding, this is why viruses live indoors most easily. Indoor lighting is around 5,000 Kelvin. Where as Winter is around 6.5K or higher. To me it seems as though viruses do not live in environments lower than 5,000K and they live quite well when the light spectrum is higher than 5,000K. Winter would be around 6,500K to 8,500K. In my very unscientific and laymans understanding of things.
This is also why they are using deep red infrared to kill the virus in hospitals, with robots. This is just how I am understanding it.
No offense but you need some serious physics education.
Kelvin is a measure of temperature.
The units you are throwing around are actually Angstroms. And yes that is a VERY unscientific understanding of it.
Winter has less UV due to the sun's angle and solar intensity.
Get an ozone generator and a UV light bulb and put that UV light in your return vent.
Ahhhh thanks!
In the winter months, when the temperature is not comfortable outside, most humans choose to cozy up inside, hence, contagious diseases are more prevalent.
100% correct. Just look at the hospital in TX. They've CLOSED their emergency department. So a couple people have Ebola, and we can scratch that provider off the list. Imagine if there were hundreds. I don't care how good our modern medical system is, it will get overhwelemed with just a handful of sick patients... nevermind the effect of nurses and drs calling in sick.
Closing the ER is the first step. I will guess the next step is to close the whole hospital followed by an attempt to decontaminate the entire facility. TX Health Presb is in a densely populated area of Dallas so that will be putting a strain on the other area medical facilities, at a minimum.
Just as well. You do NOT want to go to a doctors office let alone a hospital if this picks up speed because that´s the place where you will contract. Go to your cabin in the wilderness and live on the stock piled provisions and keep people away form you until this burns out. That was the way it was with the plague in Europe and that´s the way it will be now.
The only thing those medieval folks knew was stay the f away from it.
That was enough. No ineffectual "CDC approved" safety measures required.
Funny how the US government admittedly spent 50 billion on bioweaponry in 2011 alone and yet our hospitals have next to nothing in the way of "biodefense". Bioweapons research began at least 72 years ago, think about that. All outbreaks are suspect in the age of bioweaponry... all of them.
Space suited men with hand held devises will close off cities then go house to house.... dont think there isnt a plan.... theres a plan, u and me wont like it, I just hope to survive it...
That too will be swiftly overwhelmed if this thing has legs.
Oh yeah. Those suits can suddenly get holes in them....from as far away as 1000 yrs, around here. It's a mystery how it happens.
This seems to happen to deer crossing signs, too.
They just...appear.
Ever been to Miami?
No Way! Only the bad guys would use chemical warfare. /sarc.
funny you mention that...what is the going rate for deathcare?
Liberia nurses threaten strike over Ebola payJust in case nobody's seen it:
Hot mic at a white house Ebola press briefing:
http://truthstreammedia.com/were-screwed-msm-caught-on-hot-mic-at-white-...
Major G.
Keeping it classy.
What an ass.
Had not seen it. It is not surprising. What happened to Thomas Duncan's relatives who were exposed while NOT WEARING PROTECTIVE GARB?
+1000000.
It is beginning to look like those shorts will be soiled.
This was a female nurse wearing full CDC protective gear that took care of Duncan on the 2nd visit to the ER......
And the CDC continues to parrot that you can't get it airborn with an N95 mask.....
Yep.
CNN cited quote from hospital:
"The nurse was involved in Duncan's second visit to the hospital, when he was admitted for treatment, and was wearing protective gear as prescribed by the CDC: gown, gloves, mask and shield, Varga said."
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/12/health/ebola/index.html
I'm guessing, of course, but, it would seem that this thing, in it's later stages is REALLY easy to catch..... Lots of virus going everywhere.... including in the air where simple masks won't stop it....
That may explain how, at least so far, some close contacts haven't gotten it yet but, a healthcare worker did..... while wearing barrier gear...
That would also seem to confirm the article in the american thinker regarding the 1995 tests done showing airborn spreading of ebola.... ( that are discounted completely by the CDC ) The virus jumped 10ft and infected 2 out of 3 monkeys.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/08/airborne_transmission_of_ebola.html
In my lab I work with radioactive elements. The same issues apply for my work. What you are saying is not proven. Your claim that this virus is air born based on the nurses protective wear is WRONG for this reason. IF the nurse REMOVED the PE protective equipment INCORRECTLY the nurse could HAVE been exposed easily. The inside out glove to glove isn't that easy to do without touching surrounding jumpsuit or coat sleeves. I also work in clean room electro static discharge environment. One mistake and millions of dollars can be destroyed. Without practice using this PE even trained people fail. I have seen people using this PE every day make mistakes. I am sad the nurse may not have had the certainty that ONLY EXPERIENCE can provide. The film class consists of a guy throwing his jumpsuit legs up in the air and kicking his feet up to catch the legs of the suit before it hits the contaminated floor. Unless you have what is called an ANTI-ROOM there is NO way to consider this PE completely WITHOUT RISK. If you have family working in this nursing space of ER, PLEASE, PLEASE have them PRACTICE everyday using PE!
I don't discount what you say at all.... I still want to know how monkeys in two tests got the virus while contained, although in the same room, far from the infected monkeys and, the monkeys were NOT handling any body fluids of the infected monkey.... It had to be in the air.... And, it may not be in the air in the same way you can catch a cold, it seems the evidence is mounting that it may be getting through the n95 type mask. Hundreds of doctors and care givers have not only gotten it but died of it now.... and, they were all wearing protective gear.
I really hope I'm wrong about that.
The virus could have been spread by animal handlers cross contanimating feeding bowls, water tubes, etc., or via use of contanimated cage cleaning tools (scoops, etc.) In other words, sloppy lab work. I am not saying this is the case, but it could be, and the mechanism of transmission has never been confirmed. So, I am not saying the Reston version was NOT airborne, I am say there could be other explanations.
Having said that, the virus is so dangerous, I think caution at this point should dictate a presumption of easier transmission, as the Reston case is one of several data points that indicate greater caution is required, just in case. And I certainly agree that n95 type masks do not seem to be providing sufficient protection.
Even worse, those N95 masks (we call them dustmasks) leak like a sieve. I would want nothing less than a full face P100 when dealing with a patient.
http://www.northernsafety.com/Product/20793/North-by-Honeywell-5400-Seri...
We do not consider any disposable mask as being adequate protection from particles. If the work we have people doing requires a respirator, it is a half mask. Dust masks are for those who are not required to wear them but want extra piece of mind.
It is ludicrous to use an N95 dust mask for something this virulent. Being around an infected person for an extended period of time you basically have a 5% chance of having a particle of 750 µm getting through. Although a sneeze would have large drops, once that water evaporates you have particle that could be allowed though. Only a matter of time.
Pretty soon you will see full suits and positive pressure ones at that if this bug is that bad.
pods
One thing to keep in mind when dealing the healthcare beast is that the system tends to revolve around "disposable" product selection (and not just for PPE) for myriad reasons - per unit cost for buyers, constant & predictable revenue streams for manufacturers, ease of use, lack of ability of the lower pay scale primates to properly and reliably operate an autoclave or execute chemical sterilization, liability insurance, continued popular support for sovereign immunity, etc.
Even the $1000 taxpayer funded moon suits that the nearest HAZMAT crew to my old fire company used were treated as single-use/disposable, except in limited circumstances of false deployment or clear overkill deployment that didn't pose any identifiable risk to product integrity.
Those of us without access to a Yellen-matic printing press or stable of tax slaves have to be a bit more resourceful and frugal (like spending $100 on a diaphragm pump backpack sprayer and $100 on a bucket of pool bleach - since if it does get that bad there will be a bunch of suits available for free from dumb dead and formerly rich hobby preppers who infected themselves mis-using, taking off or re-using their $1000 suits).
The 1995 study I'm referring to was done by the Army Medica Research Institute.... I doubt handlers were cross contiminating feeding bowls and water tubes... or any other sort of contamination.... The purpose of the test was to figure out if it could be transmitted without any direct contact.
Understand and appreciate the case... Just saying, sloppy work can result in sloppy results, and nothing should be taken as definitive without multiple replication. In the end, it is a data point which should call for greater precaution. For reference, I have worked in a number of animal labs and I have seen lots of bad proceedures that call results into question. Animal handlers, even in high security labs, are often hourly employees and do not always understand the requirements of the protocols placed upon them, or are not informed of the required proticols in the first instance by the research team, or are lazy and deviate, or are given the wrong protocols, etc. This why, as stated, replication of experiements is important, to be sure these types of potential sources of error are eliminated. Just saying.. not trying to negate risk.
Landrew, thanks for adding a voice of experience and reason to this discussion. I think there are two unproven assertions that are repeated frequently as true in the media, and which will be game changers if they are proven false: one, that ebola is difficult to catch, transmissable only via direct contact with bodily fluids (in spite of the health workers who have been infected while in protective gear). Secondly, and this could prove to be even more significant, that infected people aren't contagious to others until they show symptoms. Time will tell, but if we're wrong about this, then the number of people exposed or infected is already orders of magnitude larger than the media are reassuring us.
A third worrisome element is that our masters, "the authorities," in both finance and medicine, would rather lie than tell us a truth that shows they haven't been doing their job very well.
It could be that she worked in the ER during or after his first visit. If he felt sick enough to go to ER he was probably contaigous and contaminated the place then. No one had any protection from the virus during that time period....
The articles I read SEEM to indicate this is not the case. However, you bring up an interesting point - how come no one from the first visit is sick? This would indicate that perhaps you can only catch the virus in more advanced stages of infection. If so, this would be a very helpful thing, indeed.
The other thing I want to know is this, for any of those that still believe anything the CDC says: They say that catching ebola from a door knob is VERY remote.
THEN EXPLAIN HOW CATCHING IT IN A BARRIER SUIT ISN'T?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Because door knobs have this special anti-ebola coating - duh!
I wonder if this nurse wasn't given a "vaccine" of some sort prior to treating the patient.
Just goes to show that the so called "experts" don't know jack. And still no travel ban from West Africa cause it would be counterproductive....and RACIST!
"And still no travel ban from West Africa..."
That's the most criminal part of all of this.
If this nurse dies, her blood is on the hands of the state department who voluntarily allowed a high-risk, 40-something, unemployed Liberian national into our country for no good reason. Oh, that's right, Duncan claimed he was coming to 'visit his sister.' Turns out he was coming here to marry a US citizen and bootstrap himself into US citizenship; just like a bunch of his other family members had already done.
And Duncan's family now has the gall to blame the hospital and the state of Texas for his death???!!!
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/12/us/ebola-victims-family-blames-hospital-and-state.html
It just makes you sick to your stomach...
And Duncan's family now has the gall to blame the hospital and the state of Texas for his death???!!!
Of course they do. They are just following in the foot-steps of what other, highly successful, scam artists have done in the past. Act wrecklessly, suffer the consequences. Then turn around, blame the System and reap a huge windfall. The latter is practically guaranteed if you can find a way to play the Race card.
The aroma is wafting in my direction.
Their bullshit is right out there in the open but hey we gotta bomb them ISIS or is it Al Ciada ahh who knows
Thomas Duncan is a Terrorist who has unleashed a weapon of mass destruction.
Don't worry. The Porchmonkey in chief has this one covered. He'll be rushing down to Texas...and off to Colorado I might add...to watch these people die.
Better show up in a containment suit if you're going to the hospital folks!
Too bad Ebola can't differentiate between Repubs and Democrats. Electroic medical records can....
"No vaccine for you!"
You;re a global warming "denier"? No vaccine for you!
Thirteen up arrows. That's a record for me darn near. Seriously...THIS IS SERIOUS. Everyone is throwing around theories but the only thing we know is the President is AWOL.
Its already too late to act if you're a Governor. The State of emergency should have declared as soon as that doctor got it from Tennessee.
Shelter in place, watch the news. The Secret Service has already abandoned ship folks.
Buffoons like you should be denied. We would all be better off without that Neanderthal thinking.
Neanderthal thinking is what differentiates European thinking which created all the science you see around you. And that of plain jane rest of the world thinking that up till very recently had the rest of the world 50 or more years behind us in every measure. That's because it was the little bit of Neanderthal genetics donated to those that came out of Africa that set up apart bequeathing to us the more diverse evolutionary experience base that made us more forward thinking.
So thanks for the complement. Yes I am part Neanderthal.........thank providence for that. I like my high european IQ.
Bollocks.
"We knew a second case could be a reality, "
...BUT WE DIDN'T EXPECT THE SECOND CASE TO BE A FULLY PROTECTED HEALTHCARE WORKER!! WE EXPECTED IT TO BE SOMEONE FROM THE SAME APARTMENT!!
It is reported that the infected nurse in Spain only entered the Ebola vicitims room twice and for very brief periods.
There are also reports of persons being infected with Ebola and being asymptomatic while still able to transmit the virus to others. There are also persons who are reported able to treat Ebola victims while remaining immune to the virus.
These incidents suggest that individuals may have varying degrees of susceptibilty with something in an individuals biochemistry or prior viral exposures rendering them either relatively immune to the virus or highly suspectible to the virus.
In Guns, Germs, and Steel , Jared Diamond argues that Europeans were assisted int their early conquest of the Americas by the fact that Europe was a complete cesspit (crowded living conditions, little of no sanitation) and the Europeans therefore had aquired immunity to a wide range of disease. The native Americans lived in much healthier conditions and their bodies were highly susceptible to the disease strains carried by the early European explorers and they dropped like flies with a near 90% population reduction.
It is possible that this same process is now operating in a similar fashion with regard to Ebola. In the current case Ebola developed in sub-standard conditions in Africa and when it is encountered by persons in the west they have zero acquired immunity and the potential for transmission is high.
---
Anybody know what happened to the homeless man who used the ambulance after Duncairn was transported in it? Great disease vector there, one that will transmit through a neglected population until it suddenly bursts into the open.
Long crematoriums. They made sure that Spanish nurse's dog didn't escape. Again...we already have a massive outbreak in the USA well underway.
Th is is btw why people think of he Amazon rain forest as "pristine". In fact there used to be a large and sophisticated civilisation living throughout the area. All wiped out. Forest took back over and all that are left are ruins in the trees.
I think it's likely that, even thought it's contagious when you have the simple fever at first.... during the later stages, you're putting off a lot of virus.... a whole lot.... like enough to get past a barrier suit and n95 mask....
It's either that or, all 180 doctors that have died of it so far have all committed some mistake with taking their equipment off... .. ( for all I know, that may be the case ).... but, either way... that should scare you JUST as much.
CDC Director: The healthcare worker got ebola because she wasn't following the protocol. You just have to be very careful and then you'll be safe.
Nurse: Fuck you and your protocol. asshole. YOU go empty the puke buckets. I QUIT!
Anybody know what happened to the homeless man who used the ambulance after Duncairn was transported in it? Great disease vector there, one that will transmit through a neglected population until it suddenly bursts into the open.
Well, if he's like any of the bums in my neighborhood, the ebola will die from contact with him, not the other way around.
Why wasn't Duncan's vomit bloody?
Not sure it wasn't?
Didn't get a good look, thank God.
I ran...that way....------->
My first thought was the worker touched the outside of the suit after tremoving it.
My first thought was that the nurse has Ebola Munchausen By Proxy and tossed Duncan's bloody salad to get attention.
Because...it's that hard to get. Really. You have to be covered in it and not wash it off with soap and water within the hour.
Love how they are blaming the victim. Disappointed so many are going with it.
Would 'containment' gear not be considered different from 'protective' gear? Obviously a full Hazmat suit would be considered full containment, No?
Isn't this judge the one who was stomping around the Duncan apartment, crowing about how hard this is to transmit? He's shitting his pants now.
Yes it is, and the same judge who tried importing a couple thousand illegal alien criminal kids into the DFW area before he was stopped.
I'm not supposed to wish ill on anyone, but I really wish ol' Clay would catch a bad dose of this crap.
"he or she was wearing full protective gear"
The problem here is that the CDC, and thus all the health-care sheeple, considers "full protective gear" to be a paper surgical mask, a paper gown, some sort of eye protection, and some gloves. You can confirm that on their website. They go to great lengths explaining how it shold be put on and removed correctly.
As had been pointed out many times, that could be incompetence, or not. I'm leaning towards intentional.
Why would a profit-driven US hospital go to the expense of getting the obviously-necessary full bohazard outfits when the CDC says a few paper gowns is all you need?
Do a google search for Contact Isolation PPE.
Step #1 in removing said Personal Protective Equipment is to remove your gloves.
Now complete steps 2-6 without touching anything contaminated
BINGO! It is the removal of PPE after exposure to an Ebola patient that may have the most extreme risk. Becasue if the PPE did its job, then its surfaces are contaminated. As a worker removes PPE, the worker is most vulnerable precisely because the worker is reducing PPE in the presence of contamineted PPE.
No matter what the decomtamination procedure, the worker is most vulnerable when removing PPE that has been contaminated. The Spanish nurse case appears to have occurred during PPE removal.
Agree. "Full protective gear" with as defined as snowboard goggles over a hood is not sufficient. One needs a positive displacement vapor barrier suit that won't allow air particles inside. Most "protective gear" I have seen thus far are not full containment or positive displacement.
I am not a doctor, but we are NOT prepared to deal with this based on the facts, anecdotal and quantitave, of how this spreads.
I’ve seen the CDC precautions for healthworkers described as “gown, gloves, facemask and shield”. Several scholarly articles exist that recommend a respirator instead of a facemask because bodily fluids can become “aerosolized” and inhaled when in close proximity to an infectious patient. But even then, a nurse is not going to dispose of a facemask or respirator after every visit to a patient’s room, so in the future they will be attaching a contaminated piece of equipment to their faces each time they prepare for another patient visit.
Well, they can debate that shit until they bleed out.
Personal Protective Equipment: Level 5 IndyPat recommendation:
Camp with a nuke buried under main bunkhouses and treatment rooms
Dense mine field
Six concentric rings of razor wire
Lots...of flame throwers with very spry operators
Fast Jeeps
Remote detonators
Things go sideways, hit the clacker as you put it in the wind.
That is PPE. That....is cheap to rig. Well, nukes are kindly spendy, I suppose. Maybe just some well placed and tamped C4 or thermobarics.
Everything else is a crapshoot at this point.
The CDC has been lying to us all along and serving up platitudes. If your wife works in the ER ask her about nosocomial infections. These are infections acquired while in a hospital. Even in hospitals with all the modern procedures and equipment infection still spreads. Usually we are talking about bacterial infections and usually it is after operations or along with the use of catheters and so on. The infection rate is roughly 5% but will vary from hospital to hospital.
Now, the staff do not usually wear full hazmat suits but they do take extraordinary precautions. IF what CDC tells us about the difficulty of transmitting ebola is true (big IF) then even normal hospital precautions would be sufficient, much less full containment hazmat procedures.
I will add that what I think we "know" about ebola and how it is transmitted it conjecture and maybe even wishful thinking. I suspect there may be a learning curve as we speak which is not good for us. Along those lines, did anyone read about Duncan's apartment? There should have been crews in there doing tests before, during and after clean up. Anyone who is scientific would want to know if any surfaces were infected a week after Duncan evacuated. Was there living viruse there, still? Maybe, maybe not but you would want to know to see how long it might live outside the host. If yes, where were the surfaces, toilet, sink, sofa, toothbrush, etc? Real medical-science people want to know this. After the apartment was decontaminated there should have been follow up testing, especially if live virus had been found prior. Has anyone read anything about this?
This is what happens when you have a know-nothing President who has made his whole life just spewing words and looking cool in a suit. He has never done anything his whole life. I strongly suspect his whole college experience was a fraud and he did not show up for courses. He got a pass for being the black foreign kid. Now he is in charge of a superpower in a time of multiple crises requiring some judgement and he is not up to it. His speeches are almost random with some hits and lots of misses. His advisors are political loyalists first and competent...fourth. This would be okay but the government runs most every aspect of life right now. I personally seriously doubt that private airlines would still be running to these countries without the force of government and political correctness.
My major hope is that this ebola is in fact modestly hard to spread and we will get lucky and it will not spread. We need some luck because the people in charge are liars and incompetent and have their own agendas which do not match ours.
Indiana University Hospital spent the better part of this year drinking bottled water and smelling kinda ripe.
Why, you say?
Legionella in the main water supply. Nobody has a clue why....still. Test will take months, attention spans are measured in seconds now days. Although it's now been deemed safe by "authorities"...my wife still brings her own, thanks anyway....
We are losing folks. I keep saying....It's a red tide out there.
http://www.indystar.com/story/life/diet-fitness/2014/02/07/legionnaires-...
Exactly, the idea I posited. The learning curve on a deadly disease is fatal to a lot of people. I suspect we have a large learning curve on ebola. Honest, to God, I want to be wrong and I want to trust the government and it's genius but I cannot.
As a challenge, ask yourself the very last time the government told the truth on anything of significance...anything. Ukraine, Syria, IRS-Lois 5th Amendment Lerner, Fast and Furious, employment numbers, ZIRP, Snowden-NSA surveillance...anything. I am not even a conspiracy theorist but I am certain they choose the lie every time it suits them. It's not even a moral choice. It's just a tactical choice on what they want us to think or do...and we are on to it.
Now, we have a disease, a rapacious, Steven King, horror movie disease that at least has the potential for dystopian future and they want us to believe they FINALLY are telling the truth. This one time we should believe the same people who lie or distort every other time they talk to us.
Personally, I am just hoping we luck out...and I mean luck. These people are stupid and they are morally bankrupt which is a really bad combination.
The fact that the CDC stated the #2 patient was infected because they "didn't follow protocol" means
A: If she's awake she's now been threatened with death if she doesn't comply with their orders
B: If she's asleep all she has to do is just follow orders like a good little NWO soldier and everything will be okay for her inside the protective rings of the Saturnine medical hierarchy of death
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHa-AvLk4no
If you assume that your protocols are perfect, then she could only get it by breaking protocol, right?
Seeing our leaders using a priori assumptions is not particularly reassuring. But I doubt you'll see them saying "fuck, we got that one wrong, didn't we. Who coulda thunk it".
Great job, Brownie.
It isn't whether you are WEARING full protective gear or not... what counts is HOW YOU TAKE OFF the full protective gear. Watch this video, and see how many times the worker washes off with a chlorine solution while removing his PPE after handling a dead Ebola victim. Betcha the Dallas hospital nurse didn't do likewise and thereby contaminated herself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiwipDyfz_I
Healthcare workers need respirators. The pretence that this version of Ebola is not transmissible except by contact is false. Hundreds of healthcare workers in Africa have died and yet the CDC guidelines have not been modified.
It is obvious that they are afraid it might affect air-travel should they say the truth. Commercial interests trump public health any day.
Good catch erkme73. When there is a "low risk for contracting the virus" that means no direct patient contact, i.e. blood draws or pretty much anything an MD or RN would be doing. Housekeeping or an ER tech cleaning up or something like that. Our biggest problem in facilities is the "support staff" not maintaining standard precaution. MRSA is spread this way to the patients in the rooms on either side of an infected patient. No glove changes and no washing hands.
It's bothering me that they haven't identified whether the worker was in full gear or not. What this might mean is also a failure of infection control. WHOOPS! Yeah, we had the MD and RNs in full gear but we "forgot" the support staff. They aren't considered "high risk" so the cost of educating and training them for this type of precaution doesn't have to be shouldered by the facility. Besides. Housekeepers and support aren't highly skilled, they don't understand many of the things that they work around (and if they did, they would never agree to do the fucking job in the first place--or at the very least, demand protection and training. again with the cost). They go home and talk about what they did and what they saw and who was what---can't be telling everyone what's going on, because it might get out to the general public. Better to keep them uninformed so that they just do the work and go home.
What else bothers me is that anybody is still thinking that viruses are static. They are not. They mutate continuously---it's what they do. Sometimes into a more lethal version, sometimes not. It takes months to develop a vaccine against a pathogen, if ever---and you've got a virus that can mutate from host to host. Someone asked how long this virus can live outside a warm body....who knows? We know how long certain strains can live, but who knows what this thing has become by now.
Quote from Daniel Varga, chief clinical officer for Texas Health Resources, which operates Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas.
“We’re very concerned,” Varga said, though he added that the hospital is “confident that the precautions that we have in place are protecting our health-care workers.”
She treated Duncan, the Ebola patient, after his second visit to the emergency room, on Sept. 28, and was “following full CDC precautions,” including wearing a gown, gloves, a mask and a protective face shield.
When ONE case has been treated and that case has resulted in a healthcare worker becoming infected, how can Varga “confident that the precautions that we have in place are protecting our health-care workers.”
I am not "confident" in the abilities of the individuals making the decisions in this crisis.
before you go into citing doubling 100% in one month from one person to two people dying from Ebola ... imagine what will happened in 1000 years ... i have a question, how many people have died on car accidents in Dalls this month?
I forget, are car accidents transmitted on airborne particles these days or just by bodily fluids?
The good news is that it's starting to look like if you've already somehow survived an Ebola infection you may be worth more than your weight in gold. The bad news is is that you'll probably also be involuntarily sucked dry like a human strip of beef jerky and resemble a heavily used voodoo doll. So you see there is hope.
Rider to CT declaration : All individuals surviving an illness are hereby property of the State of Connecticut.
So there IS a way to be considered valuable to this tyrannical government. Step 1: Risk your life by contracting Ebola; step 2: survive.
Car accidents are 'close proximity events' CAUSED BY DIRECT CONTACT.
So, you see, when someone's post initially sounds insane, if you try, you can discover the defective thought processes involved and the conclusions drawn from them.
Or they could be just fucking nuts. Hard to say.
Infectious outbreak:
http://thepunkeffect.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/car-crash-pileup-pho...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6m8HMrRmN4
The money printers vs the virus!
Gee, I wonder who will win that contest?
The money printers... unfunded liabilities wiped out, assets consolidated, and the bubble reset.
Right, because the economy wasn't teetering on the brink already.
A pandemic would screw a truly strong economy. Where we are now makes it even more precarious.
this will be the reason usded to go to a cashless society....
Ding! Ding! DinG! Years ago, I had a dream, I dont dream often, but when I do they are pretty good. Anyway, this dream stuck out to me in particular. I had this dream in probably 2002 or 3. There were war drums. And all I seen was Africa. It was golden brown, like an atlas. On the west coast in the dream, it begins to turn black. It leeched across the ocean, turning it black as well. Once it reached america, it also turned black. The whole time during this dream I had weird flashes of terrible things. Not war, not riots, not movie scenes. Just horrible things, crying people, sirens, chaos, but real. Thats about all I can remember from that one. Im sure its not related in anyway nor am I claiming to be a prophet, but I always wondered if I would see anything happen in the world that would relate to that dream.
Now that I think of it......nah.....it couldnt be.....
"I forget, are car accidents transmitted on airborne particles these days or just by bodily fluids?"
Good question, NEP. As a follow-up question, if one person in Dallas gets into a car accident does the number of others getting in car accidents rise exponentially until everyone gets into a car accident with a 50% mortality rate in those accidents?
Are car accidents doubling every three weeks?
no but money printing is
"... i have a question, how many people have died on car accidents in Dallas this month?"
Car accidents are not going exponential (doubling every 21 days) and car accidents are hardly, "news".
You miss quoted him. He was refering to car accidents in Dalls, not Dallas.
what?
Car accidents and ebola are not comparable. Every time you get into a car and drive, you can roughly estimate the chances that you will be killed in a car accident. Sure, those odds change with the driving conditions, where you're going, how tired you are, etc... but they exist in a pretty steady range. Ebola could fizzle out, or the odds of catching it could skyrocket in the coming months. That alone makes it different. This isn't something that you can say "Oh, two people caught it out of 320 million, so my chances are pretty good" like you can look at the number of fatal accidents in your area and figure your odds of dying in a car accident.
Flying is still totally safe. For example, in Western Africa, you're more likely to contract Ebola on the way to the airport than you are to die in a plane crash.
:/
'Fly Trans-Liberian Airlines... we almost always get you there!"
Odds are obviously also impacted by other variables - How often you drive, your driving ability, what you drive, where you drive. Much of these variables are within your control.
The rather horrific things about communicable disease is the inability to control certain variables.
We have antibacterial gel in every vehicle, soccer bags, at the entry way of our home and in my woman bag. However, the average person touches their face something like 2,000 times a day. Guess we have to get more extreme and hope for the best.
Next time you go to the store - say, grocery shopping - look around. We touch things in stores / public places and try hard not to touch the face...I know, I'm turning "OCD" but have you seen some of the people in stores? The people who lick their fingers to open produce bags, etc." Ugh!
Took the kids to their sports physicals this week and watched the nurse cough into her hand - then she handed me forms to update. Ugh! She was looking over the computer info and put her finger to her lips. The doctor shook our hands when he came in -- then washed his hands before the first kid's exam. Seriously? What did the person in the other room have?
I don't have OCD...yet.
You won't be alive in a 1000 years so that's completely irrelevant to this present day discussion. Sure many people die from car accidents everyday, but this is a disease process which doesn't include participating in any risk taking behaviours or situations. So to minimize and attempt to compare by analogy is premature at best and ignorant in the worst.