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5 Truths (You Cannot Disagree With)
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the beginning of the end of a nation...
for there to be a new beginning...the old must end..
So basically he is saying "Hang the Bankers, Lawyers and Politicians" right?
I disagree, France has been doing all 5 for a very long time.
Soo. America 80-90 years ago?
Obongo too busy golfing to read this.
#6) if you think a big black dick is in your ass. Hope and Change have got you what you asked for and its time to move Forward to the next sacrifice.
Release the Kraken...
http://news.yahoo.com/thousands-released-immigration-holds-denied-193454926.html
Furious Bearing Guy loses it today seeing Obama's latest actions re Ebola.
A recap. A call to action. A cartoon photo with truthiness.
16 countries (not the USA!) have restricted travel from W. Africa to theirs.
"Republicans Need to Man-up"
http://goo.gl/VnDkR7
But will they? Ahh.........
Since the ALS Ice Bucket challenge is so 2013, I nominate all ZH'ers for the ?#Ebola? Blood & Vomit bucket challenge. You have 24hrs to dump a large bucket of Blood & Vomit over your head[s], on video of course posted to fb or Option #2 - Immediately Fly to Africa and exchange bodily fluids in any manner you choose with the nearest ebola patient you can find or Option #3 - send $10,000 to my paypal account for the continued research into the legitimacy of Santa Claus & Bigfoot.
PLEASE Share this with all your friends & family so that we can put a ?#Stop? to Ebola ASAP, that is all...
PM me for my paypal if you want to use Option #3 because validating the legitimacy of Santa Claus & Bigfoot is serious business!!!
True you can not argue with those truths. Also you can not deny that 17 trillion in debt completely negates those truths. The game will continue until we can no longer borrow 40 to 50 cents on every dollar.
OT: watching this now on youtube:
Ebola : Inside the Deadly Outbreak (Documentary 2014)The 6th reason, the end only starts a new and different, beginning.
The essence of the campaign slogan 'Yes We Can' was a direct refutation of these Five Truths.
Needless to say, that boob Obama and his ilk disagree...
Truth from a Bearded Niall Ferguson: The Great Degeneration
http://www.planbeconomics.com/2014/10/a-bearded-niall-ferguson-on-great....
Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and other lenders are nearing an agreement with the Federal Housing Finance Agency (FHFA) that would make it easier to make housing loans with down payments of a little as 3% to borrowers with weak credit according to an article in the Wall Street Journal on Oct. 18th.
FHFA’s new director Mel Watt, who took office in January after being nominated by President Obama and confirmed by Senate Democrats, has made expanding mortgage access his top priority. Mr. Watt, a Democrat, has no prior lending or banking experience, but he is a black attorney from Charlotte, North Carolina, who served one term as a state Senator and served as the campaign manager for Charlotte Mayor Harvey Gantt who is also a Democrat.
Critics are worried about repeating the same mistakes that led to the last housing boom and bust.
Here we go again?
Amazing how long you can postpone those truths when you have reserve currency and printing press.
And it's just postpone, meaning they come roaring back at some point, no specific timeframe, more event driven.
Of course you can disagree with these (and other) truths. That does not make you right and truth wrong.
If no one disagreed with these truths, they wouldn't all be systematically broken by various governments, would they?
@ zorba : t'inquiète ca va pas durer très longtemps.
DoChenRollingBearing
Then, what happens when they find Ebola epidemic in Europe?
Or, Peru?
Quarantine for 21 days.
That's simple and understandable.
Even Obama could understand that.
* * *
Escrava dear one, a "Thought Experiment"
What happens when, say, 200 new cases pop-up in MEXICO? Do you think that they will stay in Mexico, knowing they would likely die? No, they will come to the USA...
That's right, for your first and last statement!
Actually, Escravita (Peruvians love the diminutive, I hope you don't mind, if you DO mind, it will not happen again), your question about Europe was quite perceptive.
My "take" is that Europe may wind up with the first clusters of Ebola. What do we (USA) do then? I have arrived often enough back at US airports coming back from Europe and seen what "zoos" they are. LOTS of people...
One thing I agree with Frieden about (!). We must work to STOP Ebola in Liberia, Guinea and Sierra Leone. He is right about that.
But, we must also defend our own borders. QUARANTINE is history's proven solution to halting epidemics.
@ DoChenRollingBearing:
Imagine you have 500 guys ready to fight - a battalion of four companies.
You're a Colonel of West Point, his four captains are enganjados civilians, the rest of the troop consists of Haitians, Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Cubans (the corporals and sergeants), and a lot of people you do not know where it comes from.
The government sends three battalions like yours and another paramedic, 2,000 guys to kill something in a drop of saliva can contain more than 10,000 virus strains.
If you do not know, only five (5) virus a few microns are sufficient to contaminate you.
A very small amount of saliva, believe me, is in the air.
Alright, 1,500 soldiers will sing during the trip, 500 Battalion of Health Suicide everyone shitting their pants, they know what they will find.
You ride your camp, and establishes the perimeter, not reaching us, you have nothing to do with that bunch of needy, can not kill, they are all sick.
After 20 days the shit grabs, some of its soldiers are extremely prepared for war with fever and vomiting.
The guys are dropping blood from every orifice of the body.
You do what?
On the thirtieth day you have low, there is a riot.
Everyone wants to go home.
Everyone has family.
All are mercenaries looking for a Green Card.
All were trained to kill, not to die.
Of course all this is an assumption, America is an exceptional country.
I would keep the last bullet for me.
hehe.
I would probably start drinking again.
Maybe take up some harder stuff too.
Karaio, that was great!
:-)
I would watch a Monte Python movie.
Yes I support 21 day quarantine.
But quarantine concept is based on (a) someone showing symptoms, and (b) no illness manifestation in 21 days, no infection, symptoms were caused by something else (like common cold, flu, food poisoning, etc).
The concept fails you believe someone can be a carrier and infect others without showing any symptoms themselves. They would have to be quarantined rest of their life wouldn't they?
The carrier belief is conviction without evidence, conviction without trial, conviction on mere suspicion, which violates the 5th amendment.
Do we accept medical people violating the 5th amendment, convicting people without evidence, without trial?
And what if the thing they call ebola can be found in everybody's blood? Now what?
Not selective quarantine. Universal Quarantine. All people, 21 days in isolation.
If a person is infected, they have to be isolated until none of their fluids contain Ebola virus. If it takes 90 days before semen is clear of Ebola, they should be isolated for 90 days.
What are you going on about conviction? It is not a prison sentence, there is no crime being committed or charged.
Universal Quarantine coming from W. Africa.
Someone lies to Immigration? One year.
How is it possible to quarantine everybody in a hospital, in a village, in a community, in a practical way?
Quarantine used to be initiated one by one when symptoms appear. Are you now saying no symtoms are needed, just suspicion is enough?
And yes it is 5th amendment violation, you're depriving them of liberty without due process (trial, evidence, etc). A doctor is acting as prosecutor judge and jury, prohibited in our constitution. Quarantine is deprivation of liberty, crime or no crime, so yes it falls under the 5th amendment.
And yes what they call ebola can be found in everybody's blood, which means it's not the cause of an illness, something else is. Hence ebolie, scamola, etc.
antidisestablishmententarianism
just wanted to see how ZH would do the swueeze...
Quarantine people coming from West Africa. Keep them in a FEMA camp for 21 days. If they get sick, treat them in isolation and keep them in a seperate area of the camp for 90 days or until their tests come back clean.
As for how do you quarantine people, its like house arrest, but you need to bring in supplies for them, and need to take precautions with waste disposal.
As for legality, they've used mass quarantine before, so I guess it stands up:
http://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/aboutlawsregulationsquarantineisolation.html
@ Slave Isaura:
You are circumspect, sign write anything down.
Naturally, I read before, I do not trust lawyers.
Kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!
:-)
Q: Is "Immigrant" the Orwellian term for "ILLEGAL immigrant"?
A: Yes. "They say immigrants should not be held longer than U.S citizens for the same crime"
""There has been an insidious erosion of constitutional rights protections," he said. "Immigrants and citizens should be treated alike by our criminal justice system.""
Absolutely immigrants should receive their US Citizenship Constitutional rights (because ALL IMMIGRANTS ARE US CITIZENS) - but the question is... should ILLEGAL immigrants receive the same rights as US Citizens or should they be deported?
ORWELLIAN ENGRISH!
you guys are making an issue which is really very, very simple into something very very obscure and complicated.
1. Do you have any white ancestors?
2. Then go the fuck back to wherever they came from!!!!!
How about LIFO inventory? Ship all the freed slaves back to where their ancestors came from. Then worry about the white conquistadors.
Likewise:
1) Do you have any 'native' american ancestors?
If so, then go the fuck back to wherever they came from 200 centuries ago, namely Asia.
Obama is an actor. He reads a script, and very well at that. Then he plays golf. He is paid to be the representative. Does he have corrupt morals? Certainly. Is he good at what he does? Definitely.
But he's just a puppet, muppet whatever... Pinnochio. Sounds like a good Banzai image.
Careful, this is really tender territory for Americans. They _need_ to believe that the rampant, systemic, structural problems are due to one man, and thus can be fixed easily by someone else doing something. It's a bit too concerning, and ultimately self-damning, to open one's eyes fully and acknowledge what we already know: being that the structures have always been there and that they are in fact toxic. It is self-damning because if you are participlating in it, even peripherally, then you are supporting/sustaining it, thus your hand also holds a chain that is indeed attached to your own neck...
I've ran a global team of support engineers, consisting of 80 guys, and there's no fucking way I ran every policy... it was a matter of picking people you trusted and delegating, then backstopping them when something went pear-shaped. If this is true for a global team of 80, what do you imagine the situation is for a City... a State... a NATION of STATES... of course he's just a mouthpiece... have you seen how his style breaks down when he needs to improvise?!? He's just a reader, he does what he's told... and if you're paying your taxes, then you're paying him to be there and handing him links of chain to put around your own neck.
Own it people... own your role in it. If you accept that, then fine, but ranting and railing while contributing is the height of hipocrisy... and uultimately your word and the truth of it is all you have (and your family/loved-ones) is ALL you actually own that is truly yours... own that too.
Nage
Excellent post, Nage, liked it a lot. The "height of hipocrisy" part was a bit harsh, IMHO, because there is such a thing as ventilating your own frustations from time to time to like minded folk. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you don't go over the top and try to keep a constructive frame of mind.
And as far as the toxic structures go, you said it yourself: you need to organise any complex entity in the way you yourself described. And the structures themselves are neither toxic or healthy, they only get infected when they are no longer adequately scrutinised, controlled and protected by the rule of law. We sometimes tend to forget how important a decent justice system really is in our complex societal model.
BULL SHIT !!!
OBAMA AGREES WITH WHAT HE READS. THATS WHY HE WAS CHOOSEN.
I HAVE DROPPED OUT BECAUSE BARRY and GWB BEFORE HIM, ARE LIARs WORKING FOR THE DOWNFALL OF AMERICA'S FAMILIES!
DON'T PRETEND BARRY DOESN'T KNOW, AGREE WITH, CONDONE AND DERIVE PLEASURE FROM THE SUFFERING HE BRINGS WITH HIS ACTIONS !!!!!
So many down arrows? Do people really think this guy has any power or is there just that many trolls on here? WTF. This guy was chosen because of his natural and trained ability for NLP.
The idea that our leaders are blameless and have zero responsibility is a dumbass theory. Good luck peddling that.
I don't think anyone is arguing that our "leaders" are blameless. The fact that they're the face of this garbage means they're guilty as hell, otherwise they wouldn't have been chosen for their position. Are they solely to blame? That's the real question.
They're obviously corrupt — that's why they have the job. That's why they're there: to be the face; to take all the blame; to misdirect. And focusing our energies on figureheads is rather pointless since it leaves the people who are actually in charge free to call the shots and continue skirting about in the shadows, making life miserable for everyone.
If a nation is like a house, arguing about politicians is like arguing about wallpaper while the foundation rots beneath us. It's easy to get distracted by what's on the surface, but sometimes you have to dig deeper to fix what's wrong.
rot prevention=seeing the future. get a reloader or stock up as the last tool in the wood shed has a trigger...
@ Erectus gdogus:
Here most have pen and paper next to the mouse.
They know and note the nicknames of Trolls.
Kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!
Oh, they also know who is from another country and try to understand what we say in Google Translator.
Kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!
Here's all good people!
:-)
A lot of people honestly think things would be drastically different with Romney in the White House. I pity those people — and I say so without disdain, because I used to be one of them.
It's painful to realize the entire system is corrupt and manipulative from top to bottom. It's even more painful to realize the only way to effect change is likely through the judicious application of targeted violence. No one wants to hear that. We've been raised to abhor violence and to believe that the peaceful act of voting could make a difference.
But look at the evidence that surrounds us. If voting could possibly change a damned thing for the better, it would have been made illegal a long time ago. Voting — or at least the idea of voting — is the last line of defense for the powers-that-be. The illusion that we have some kind of choice in this mess is the only thing that keeps most people in line.
So here we sit, arguing about whether one cog in the machine is less destructive than another, when the more relevant argument should be whether we have the courage to tear down the whole machine and build a new one.
McMolotov
One difference, if Romney was POTUS, you wouldn't be called a rayciss if you criticised him on any issue, otherwise I agree.
I think the only people dispensing the racist label are the social dem Wiggers and ain't nobody got no respect for them so I wouldn't be overly concerned about the color of the mans skin.
..........to be clear, IMHO Obama should in no way ever be referred to as a Nigger he has never done anything to earn that stripe, it makes my skin crawl when i hear that useless meat sack or that other worthless piece of shit Holder refer to thier people............ fucking whores is all they are they have no people other than the other members of the banksters brothel.......
"...whether we have the courage to tear down the whole machine and build a new one."
Collective consciousness is subject to Karma, individual, group, and national. Societal change is planned and being executed. Complex pared down to simple one: total control. Curfews and FEMA campos are drill-tested, no? And they need to keep the rat-cage spinning, so unlikely to close down airports...
NWO, pale horse cometh...sigh.
Perhaps even "talking" on internet will be prohibited...hummmmm.
wonder what Putin is talking to Berlusconi about? Oil and gas, or...? Keep enter-tainted.
He's sayin, prepare bitches, the end is near.
Listen to this maggot Ted Cruz talking the plan. As with everything TPTB do there is truth mixed with the most malicious of lies.
By way of deception...
Their aim is to blend all religions, remove Christ with subtle Hegelian Dialectic, & force you to worship Gaia aka the State.
Whatever your belief, the use of force for their so called "Up Lifting All Inclusive Religion" should turn your stomach & scare the bejabbers out of you.
You will be forced to worship what is a thinly veiled disguise of Satan.
No, he'd be called a rich prick/fuck/asshole.
Jooze will call you rayciss regardless of who is POTUS.
Why should you give a fuck what they call you?
McMolotov - absolutely spot on +106
All you need is the courage to live through it, you know where I live.
Unfortunately you and others make this erroneous assumption. There are factions among the elite just as there are among drug cartels. One thinks it needs to go this way and one thinks it needs to go that way.
All sides NEVER work toward the same goals. There Iis no one leader or driving force. There are many leaders with multiple pathways. Not all those pathways lead to the same place.
COMMON SENSE SHOWS THIS TO BE TRUE. It's the same in any company, govrnment or organization.
DDon't believe Barry is blameless. Don't believe it does no good to vote that useless piece of shit and his crew out !!!!
Barry S relinquished his command control authority which now lies in the hands of Serco, the worlds most evil company no one has heard of. Serco now literally rules the world
"Obongo too busy golfing to read this."
No, He probably aware of it. However to win an election a Liberal must decieve the majority of voters by making promises that can met in the short term, and leave the problems for the next Guy, It works for a while because the problems can be deferred for a very long time. In the USA its been going on since LBJ "great society", 40+ years. That said the sun is setting and all of the deferred problems are beginning to take hold. The time to squash this nightmare is about 30 years ago.
http://rt.com/usa/197176-obama-credit-card-declined/ The US credit card must be maxed out.
80-90 years ago you dolts were clammering after that new easy credit from the Federal Reserve. It was just the rearing of the roaring 20's,
"80-90 years ago you dolts were clammering after that new easy credit from the Federal Reserve. It was just the rearing of the roaring 20's,"
from 1913 to the 1930's interest rates followed pre-fed rates:
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/talking-numbers/222-years-interest-histor...
From 1970 to 2000 interest rates were above the pre-fed rates. My guess is that rate dip between the 1860's and the 1920's was driven by the industrial revolution and flood of cheap labor from immigration. I think if the Fed didn't exist rates would have remained near 5% for most of the 20th century and boom/bust cycles would have been more frequent but less extreme. With the Fed manipulating rates it causes bigger booms and bigger busts as it tries to postpone the normal 7 year business cycle corrections, and accerates bubbles.
Events like the Great Depression and our current Great Recession are politically driven. In the 1930's FDR closed all the banks, siezed all liquid assets of the banks, and raised tax rates up to 90% so that private business was locked out of the economy. Obozo would have done the same if he the DNC controlled Congress. Soon or later the US political system will devolve into a single party (majority) system and the USA will be once again become a communist again (US was communist in the 1930's during FDR reign)
Let us prey(misspelled intentionally)....Yea though I walk through The Valley Of Poverty, I shall fear no evil,
for those who work shall pay for all my needs... God bless Obama and the Democratic Party.
God Bless Obama
To Which God of Man's creation I send that prayer, I do not know and frankly, do not care.
For he is well in need God's forgiveness.
His current policies with regard to the impending pandemic are possibly nothing short of murderous and treasonous .
His disregard for the well being, very health of the citizenry is dumbfounding
He apparently cannot organize a community
His followers and sycophants are destroying the last vestiges of civility, morality, ethics and societal cohesion.
Time for Impeachment Has Arrived.
I seriously wonder if some brave and powerful souls are about to have a serious sit down with him.... strongly suggesting needs to be met, actions to be taken.
knukles... Zorba forgot to put the sarc after his statement...he thought it was implied.
And yet we all sit back and watch the horror unfold, unable or unwilling to take action. The problem is ignorance. The answer is enlightenment. For those interested in a crash course, I suggest a thorough study of the works of Abel Danger.....a truly eye opening experience.
So, k, you believe Obummer runs the country, then?
......I think most understand he just signs the cheques that our asses must cash, but I refer you to W Wilsons words.......
"......Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."
.....had us all in a death grip for a very long time now.....
That's what guys with vagina's do, till the bitter end too. Hint, just hold tight, they are schedualed to not return from a cruise they are booked on.
Well that's the beauty of it.
Create two false paradigms. Make people believe that one or the other represents them. Then create a kleptoligarchy that gives crumbs to the low end, bacon and big portions to the high end. Leave the honest hard working individual to spend a lifetime toiling and believing that one or the other side represents them while they are slowly bled to death.
It gives power to the money-changers, rewards to the elite, subsistence and distractions to the crumb eaters so they do not riot. The middle slowly loses faith and it is blamed on "depression" or "alcoholism" or some other label that abdicates responsibility of the society from facing its crimes.
Agree with everything, except the "new" part in "new ebworthen".
Tyler's IT guy needs a holiday or to be replaced, as he's been doing this a lot to old timers.
Kirk, that is a tag that I think means you haven't read it yet. I get it at work, but not at home. It has to be a setting, although it has not bothered me enough to determine which. Email Sacrilege and tell him which browser you are using and on what kind of network, and he can probably tell you how to make it go away.
Zorba, yes,and you don't see the French lining up to emigrate to the US.
And France is soon to be a 3rd world country.
"I disagree, France has been doing all 5 for a very long time."
...and is rapidly going down le tube...
@ ZerOhead:
To your list of Bankers, Lawyers, and Politicians, let's not forget to add the Free Shit Army.
+1. But isn't that the same?
I know what you mean, but the Banksters, TPTB and TBTJ have got to be the ultimate Welfare Queens.
Amen. These are pure paracites in that they bring nothing of value. ie worthless paper.
Right as usual, Croesus and Kirk! <--- Hmm, you two guys could be lawyers (j/k!!!)
......the FSA is simply another tool that has been used to distract and divide us keeping us fighting on the ground rather than directing our fire to the source of the problem and while some are hopelessly lost many have to potential to be redirected toware the real enemy....... every one you can turn is one less you have weighing you down........
Denny Crane! Alan Shore!
Thank God for guns!
and preachers
I disagree. What are you going to do about that? Call the thought police? Next!
Ahh, I see the law of large numbers has struck again ... perhaps there always is a greater fool after all ...
for there to be a new beginning...the old must end..
Let's create a New World Order and get Yellen to go up my FAFSA M'Fers.
Ha! Half the posters on ZH would disagree with all five! Look at the comments so far...
I do agree.
HAlf of the posters on ZH are high on something at this point of time.
For Zorba, It's Mt Gay rum, no homo pun intended.
im drinking coffee...and smoking tobacco...
no drugs or alchohol...
for whats coming down the pike...
i need to be able to think very clearly..
Two years and 19 days sober, but who's counting? Thinking clearly may very well become very important before long...
May I suggest one of the many wonderful offerings from MacCallan or Dalmore to celebrate...... I've had some of my most entertaining epiphanies while sampling these fine malts......
........ a shot before a shot often helps calm the nerves and steady the muzzle..... in moderation of course
If you've ever known anyone who can't get sober you wouldn't mess with someone who has.
.....wasn't my intent ......
....we all fight our demons in our own way and time, for me the dragon is never far away some days I win some days I lose ...... but if I can't find humor in my stupidity I would truly be lost
#s 2 and 3 do not apply in many cases - when funds are taken from someone and given back to the same person. We can have a third grader explain it to you if necessary.
You actually can disagree with all of these so called truths. As money is created out of thin air (Chicago Fed) you don't need to take it from someone to give it to someone else, you just need to create it out of nothing.
6) Anytime a thought says that you cannot disagree with it, there will be people who disagree.
I actually lived those 5
I am a living expert of those, whereas most people just try to understand them.
I experienced the part when nobody was working by late 80s in Eastern Europe until we ran out of food and communism collapsed due to food shortage
.
Wait a second, communism collapsed? You mean my EBT could theath to function?
Theath... you needs to sthighn up wit ObieCare am get that lispth taken care uf.
Ifs cobered unther the secshun entitled da Babah Wawas Syndwome
Listen.
Kindly elaborate. How did you/your family survive? Where did you find work on the rebound? Did you have to re-tool?
Every single country in the communist block had food stamp program for the whole population. They were rationing food for everybody.
Food was getting more scarce because less and less people wanted to work.
If it weren't for food shortage, communism would have never failed, never. My life was like a dream until food shortage started early 80s and it got very bad by late 80s.
I knew there was a reason I appreciated your POV. ;)
The wisdom of experience is not forgotton.
EKM1,
I am curious for insights into what American's will do, how they will behave, when shortage becomes more a normal dynmamic of daily life. In particular, did those in the Eastern Blocs really not see it coming and assumed "blue skies" forever?
I know you can't fill that in a comment, but I would be curious if you have a book reccomendation, perhaps by someone who lived through the periods you mentioned and did a hell of a job like Jens O. Parsson's "Dying of Money".
I really have a disdain for the re-authoring of history, but the right book by the right author always settles things properly.
Most folks want to profit, but I have spent the better part of five years getting the fuck out of the way and am always looking for better tactics/stategry.
I am a simple man, I want a simple life, and I am happy to die with a flushing pot, a warm cot, and a few hots (a day). That is, and always has been, a good life.
If I can pass that to my family, then I did my job.
Regards,
Cooter
There was a lot of propaganda and people actually believed it and got used to it.
Everybody had a place to sleep, enough clothes and food and water, so almost everybody started working less and trying to enjoy more leisure.
Output decreased year after year.
People were pretending they were working.
It requires a closed system and an insane propaganda.
ekm, I remember many trips behind the Iron Curtain. Mayhaps all the folks survived and played at working... why not? But they certainly were not a happy joyous and free lot. They all walked about in a semi-cationic state slowly moving with a Thorazine shuffle and a sadly resigned 500 yard stare.
I loathed the rulers of you folks.
A deep seated visceral response to an unnecessary hell on earth. A pure violation of the Laws of Nature and Nature's God.
I have since come to believe that Religion is not the Opiate of the masses, for fascist governments are endeared to an opiated public. Religion was and still is viewed by statist PTB as the competition. Vodka back then was and in many respects still is the opiate of the masses
Terrible times, those.
You were there when situation deteriorated.
There was a time when people thought all was fine.
Even now, a lot of old people still would go back to the same system.
That's why Libertarianism is pure Utopia.
Humans usually do not like to trade and to expand output. That is hard work. They are simply forced to.
I know firsthand from MANY people behind the Iron Curtain (former DDR), that they are of two minds: They are happy to be much better off in a Material sense, creature comforts and modern toys, but... they miss the days when crime was not an issue, and people were much closer to each other.
So, in that sense they would indeed prefer a "comfortable" version of socialism over pure capitalism, with its ever increasing demands for productivity and job uncertainty.
Interestingly enough, given the choice, they'd still pick the New Status Quo over the old.
DDR (East Germany) was never a socialist society. Communism is a 'Top-Down' managerial system.
West Germany was/is more socialist (through its labor laws and freedom to organize) than East Germany ever was.
Crime is mainly a byproduct of inequality.
Capitalism, productivity, and jobs are about to go kaput…. Not that you don’t know.
And yes.
Religion is competition to authoritarianism and it is not opiate of the masses.
As far as Laws of Nature and Laws of God, humans almost always try to ignore them.
>>>>Religion was and still is viewed by statist PTB as the competition.
They are trying like hell to destroy it, or at least your freedom of choice.
NWO>>>one world govt>>>>one world religion>>>>synagog of Satan
Obviously that you are very biased about your religion. So, you can’t be taken seriously.
Obviously, you are very biased about your atheism. So, you can't be taken seriously. See how that works, Brazil Nut?
Then, you should feel sorry for you not be able to overcome your intellect confinement.
If I can borrow Adam Smith’s phrase: “as stupid and ignorant as it possible for a human being to be.”
@ TD :-) thnx
Oh Portuguese slave from Brazilian telenovela, you expect me to take you seriously? ROFL Intellectual stasis much?
I find you as thick, abrasive and coarse as a rasp on a bloody hemorrhoid.
Since there is no ignore button to shoo you away, I beg you, please ignore me.
What's your view on man ignoring the law of men?
Law of men?
What's that?
Can you give some examples?
ekm1
With all the due respect, I am going to disagree with both of your statements.
Religion might not complement you and I but, it complements authoritarianism (Fascists) and the masses. Try to engage a religious person in a conversation that God is a human creation. Good luck!
And, if you mean by the "Laws of Nature and Laws of God" that humans are flawed, I would agree with you.
But, "Laws of Nature and Laws of God" are meaningless jargon that has no place in a conversation. Both mean absolutely nothing. Sorry!
So I guess the lesbo mayor of Houston was promoting weak minded religion by having sermons subpoenad?
Fascists are trying to destroy it.
You cannot see it. Your freedom of choice is being removed.
It starts with the language. Look up Hegel, a freemason.
Then if you can crack that nut of yours, give these a try from a roman catholic turned atheist, turned christian, and see if you can soak up his research. Reformation/Restoration...Which is winning right now?
I used to think more along your lines, but no longer. I couldn't care less what you believe or don't as each of us come by it on our individual paths/experiences. It's a choice. A choice that you are having incrementally destroyed and refuse to see or acknowlege because it is of no interest to you. That's YOUR choice. Most focus on the evil coming out of israhell. They are a bit player not the only one.
Here's you a good start.
Who's behind the UN/UNESCO?
“The various modes of worship which prevailed in the Roman world were all considered by the people as equally true; by the philosopher as equally false; and by the magistrate as equally useful.” — Edward Gibbon, The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire
knukles,
There are two ways to look at religion:
1) As people become destitute and desperate, religion united them and gives them hope by offering easy solutions.
2) People will want revenge. People will renegade reason and science and they will embrace demagogues that will promise rebirth/renew that will lead to confrontation and intolerance of other views and religions.
Drive around the poor neighborhoods in your town and #1 is what you’ll see. And I can give countless examples, here, in DC metro area. Many empty street malls and garages became churches.
In Brazil, movie theaters became churches because people couldn't afford the movies.
2 ways is a most myopic statement.
EKM1,
Interesting.
I have humble beginnings and I have come close to the soup line, despite a career in technology, several times. I was luck when I entered the work force, but holding on has proved a chore. InfoTech now is like machining in the 60s; the good days for most are numbered (and most will disagree - but watch layoffs over time for that labor segment). It feels like I am on a treadmill sometimes. After some years, I got wise and started focusing on "value add vectors" rather than learning the latest-greatest shit from tech vendors.
I often feel I am an "old soul" because I just never fit in with my contemporaries. Most of the folks I friend are 10 or 20 years older. Folks my age annoy me with their adolescent behaviors. Everyone in my age bracket expects waaaaay more than they are going to get. "Head up their ass" as we say.
I feel like the US is full of idiots who expect more and will get less and that is 300 mil warm bodies. It seems obvious to me, but to others, they get pissed if you put it in their face. I know folks with meager wages who are at least a half mil in debt because they can. They are bugs looking for a windshield, but if you tell 'em that they get annoyed.
I guess I will have to shop for my own book, as best I can, on the collapse of Easter Europe.
My paternal ancestry left Prussia before she faded. It must be genetic, because I don't see how this doesn't end in a flaming pile of shit I don't want to be around to help stomp out.
Regards,
Cooter
Cooter, I don’t know you well enough to pretend my solution will work for you but here is what I’ve done. I bought a piece of land in the desert. Built a small one bedroom cabin (300 sqft) that is completely off grid (solar and wind power). I will soon have a well put in (hauling water in the meantime) and the orchards and chicken runs go in next spring. Satellite internet and food (for now) are my only required connections to the outside world. My land, cabin, power, well, fencing and food production systems will all come in at under $50K once I am finished.
Once you have the needs of life, it is incredible how little currency you need. I have been doing seasonal work for the regular expenses (food, internet, car insurance, gas) and I have just accepted a contract for a few months on a job that will let me finish the rest of the ranch in cash. Once it’s completed, I will live comfortably on less than $12k a year. No taxes for the vampires at that level of “poverty”
Kudos to you, goldsaver, because you’re the real deal.
Hope that your neighbors see you as an example; then, together, you will develop the bonds for a strong community.
In a capitalist society, you can be a loner (by having money) and do very well. However, in a “collapse of civilization” that is coming, you must be in a group.
By the way: Doing in a desert takes lots of guts. I prefer subtropical, with plenty or underground water, lots of rain, and near a river. Wonder why?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroelectricity#Small
I would have gone subtropical/tropical but; most US areas with subtropical wet environments are either over taxed/regulated (California); very large welfare populations (Louisiana) or overpopulated. I chose an area with plenty of solar and wind gain for energy production, cheap land (it’s the desert, after all) and in my case, lots of underground water easily reachable by a well.
Areas outside of the US (Central America, Fiji) offered great advantages but suffer from strong gun control and corrupt governments that would not hesitate for a second to fleece a gringo once things go south. Even one who speaks the local language.
So, check the post below. I think you will find it interesting.
By Walter Haugen:
Check out Joseph Tainter’s “The Collapse of Complex Societies” or my book “The Laws of Physics Are On My Side.” Tainter introduces marginal returns as the basis of his argument and it is relevant to your own. If the marginal returns fall below 1:1, it doesn’t matter if you have a high throughput (American empire today) or a relatively low throughput (Rome circa 100 AD). It is still relative to your input/output.
Per my book, what we are doing now is replacing cultural behavior with massive doses of fossil fuel energy. Once we run short of cheap oil energy (either by price or supply) we have to constrict our energy use. If we don’t we get dieoff.
Your solar business is still dependent on cheap oil, whether in the embedded energy of the infrastructure or just getting the workers to the jobsite and factory. My farming is also slightly dependent on fossil fuel energy, as I use 10 gallons of gasoline and my labor to grow 10,000 pounds of food per year. However, in my case I am 25-35 times more efficient than industrial agriculture, measured by input/output analysis.
I am no fan of Greer, as I find him arrogant and wordy. However, he did hit on a winner with catabolic collapse. As for Diamond, he is the only one I have heard who understands the role of the 1st and 2nd derivative in plotting the inflection point where marginal returns change sign. Tainter alludes to this but doesn’t even use the term “inflection point” in his analysis.
As for Kunstler, he has looked at the problem in depth and his “World Made by Hand” books look at the sociological effects – and are a good read too.
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/when-ephemeralization-is-hard-to-tell-from-catabolic-collapse/2013/09/19
What about property taxes?
I moved to Alaska. It is expensive as hell, but I am finally doing all right (wasn't easy). I am still paying off debt, but things are improving.
I chose not to go rural because I figured if population centers totally collapse, we are all fucked anywyay. I don't think anyone can realistically plan for that and have their plan hold together for an extended period of time. So I focused on being resilient enough to hopefully make it through the other side.
I am not riding the gravy train by any stretch, but I will have it better than most.
Regards,
Cooter
IMHO the desert is not a good choice for a self-sufficient home - what can you do without water?? With water tables dropping deeper with every month of drought, how do you expect to pump this well? Moreover, a big part of being self-sufficient is the ability to grow a good part of your food! Again - what do you hope to grow without water??
I admire your tenacity, but have to question your logic!
The hot water showers... you forgot the hot water showers. (the Ukrainians will not forget them this winter...)
But you are on the mark with the flush toilets...
the hot water shower is the most luxurious invention by man.
CrazyCooter
Try these. I think you'll find them interesting
http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2014/02/how-to-time-collapses.html
http://howtosavetheworld.ca/2013/07/05/will-the-collapse-of-civilization...
I will take a look when I have time.
I saw your Tainter link upthreead (that thing is hard to read!). Own it. I also own On Killing by Grossman. I own the Pennwell Non-technical series for oil, gas, pipelines, refining, etc. I was an avid OilDrum reader and still try to follow Gail and Heading out at their new digs. Meat by Fairlie was interesting for those interested in the economics of meat production (pig vs cow vs chicken). The Last Alaskan Barrell is also very insightful for folks who are curious what the life of Prodhoe bay production looked like (it actually calculates the total annual return for the whole field over its whole life). Very interesting.
The Dying of Money, which I originally cited, is also very good. I was hoping to find a similar book for the Eastern block countries that is just fair, factual, and unbiased. I have some basic ideas of what went on, but really was curios into a detailed look.
Always looking for new reads!
Regards,
Cooter
Experience is quite the training program ...
i met a russian mercenary in IRAQ...
we called him "DRAGOFF'
anyways...his father survived and prospered when the USSR collapsed by stealing 1 truck full of goods...
his kids went to college, he and his wife retired and traveled all over the world...
DRAGOFF was a mercenary because he wanted to be...he had plenty of money
thanks to that truck load of goods...
and what was in that truck...
.
.
TOILET PAPER!
Last 5 years it became like that all over eastern europe
what else was valuable in trade during that time frame?
tobacco?
any insights would be most appreciated
People would kill for tobacco toilet paper.
Alum effect?
Remember comrade, tobacco toilet paper is easy on the lung, and ecstasy for the bung.
ROFL
Tobacco, Liquor, Chocolate
Beyond toilet paper ... candles, matches.
Cigarets were big but everything was.
Everybody was stealing something from work and sell it or barter with other people.
so, in a nutshell...
everything was worth money...
except money....
Money was quite worth it but very hard to come by.
The gov knew very well that by printing money situation would not change at all.
Remember, it is central control. There is no credit system. Only reserve system. Gov provided all money
thank you for your time and insights....
@x.inf.capt excuse me for jumping in usually just read & read and do enjoy most everyone here. This following is a diffrent country but did scare the crap out of me, then came away with new ideas on 'getting ready' ,,, Yikes!!
This is interesting...someone thats been through it
A popular article in the survival sphere entitled “Lessons from Argentina’s economic collapse” from Ferfal documents the struggles of living in a collapsing society. Download it here in pdf Argentina Collapse or simply read below.
http://www.survival-spot.com/survival-blog/argentina-collapse/
http://www.survival-spot.com/survival-files/argentinas-collapse.pdf
http://ferfal.blogspot.com/
also www.shtfschool.com - good reads on there from someone who survived real life collapse
Oil_City_News
Thanks. We, in the Western world, that still deluded with stocks, BTFD, gold, and a bunch of other nonsense believing those will save all of us, need more of what you just showed us.
People need to get ‘Curious’ about this: At the next depression, we will NOT be facing a recovery thereafter, like in the past. We will be facing anarchy and chaos.
Here’s why:
The process that drives the collapse of civilizations has a surprisingly simple basis: the mismatch between the maintenance costs of capital and the resources that are available to meet those costs.
Capital here is meant in the broadest sense of the word, and includes everything in which a civilization invests its wealth: buildings, roads, imperial expansion, urban infrastructure, information resources, trained personnel, or what have you.
Capital of every kind has to be maintained, and as a civilization adds to its stock of capital, the costs of maintenance rise steadily, until the burden they place on the civilization’s available resources can’t be supported any longer.
The only way to resolve that conflict is to allow some of the capital to be converted to waste, so that its maintenance costs drop to zero and any useful resources locked up in the capital can be put to other uses.
Human beings being what they are, the conversion of capital to waste generally isn’t carried out in a calm, rational manner; instead, kingdoms fall, cities get sacked, ruling elites are torn to pieces by howling mobs, and the like.
If a civilization depends on renewable resources, each round of capital destruction is followed by a return to relative stability and the cycle begins all over again; the history of imperial China is a good example of how that works out in practice.
http://cassandralegacy.blogspot.it/2014/09/the-limits-to-growth-described-in.html