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Living The Grecovery Dream: Two Jobless Parents, Two Kids, One Cat All Living In A Car

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Via KeepTalkingGreece blog,

Squeezed between steering wheel, handbrake, door and dashboard, Katerina reads in her history book, takes notes for school. Next to her, on the driver’s seat, cat Eddy stares right in the camera lens. It may look like a cute snapshot on a sunny day, if it wasn’t for a sad detail: a withering spring stuck in a roll of toilet paper.  A distinctive memory of a former normal life that turned into a grim reality for a family of four.

At night the seat where Katerina sits during the day turns into a bed for her sister Fay. Cat Eddy cuddles with Katerina on the back seat. Father Nikos and mother Maria sleep in shifts on the driver’s seat. When the one parent is in the car, the other spends the night on a bench of the park where the car has been parked, on a side road of Irakleio suburb of West Athens. “It’s dangerous when it gets dark,” Maria says “we have to watch out.”

With both parents without a job and all savings already spent, the family of four has been living in the uncomfortable environment of an old car for the last two weeks. They were evicted from the home they were renting due to a mountain of outstanding debts to the landlord and utility companies.

Nikos and Maria at their late 40′s, Fay and Katerina aged 16 and 14, packed a few things, took their pet in their arms and made their old car their new home.

“The girls started to cry when we told them that we’re going to live in the car,” Maria told the reporter of Sunday newspaper Proto Thema that revealed the story. “The first night in the car was the most difficult, psychologically,” Maria adds with a trembling voice.

“We had our decent home, our cooked food, we offered our kids what they needed. I could never think that I will end up like that at my 49. We knew that times are tough, but never thought that we will end up on the street,” Maria said.

 

It’s Greece’s new homeless: decent families who lost everything due to economic crisis and austerity measures and they live their own hell in social isolation in a collapsed welfare state.

Decent families who live from charity aid, food packages, soup kitchens or neighbors’ help.

Decent families who cannot even enjoy a warm bed and a proper shower,  a home-cooked meal, a flower in the vase.

 

The story of the family is common to many Greek households with no extraordinary means and salaries. Their economic decline started in 2012, when the bakery where Nikos was working closed down. Maria, who was working as a school traffic woman, was fired. The family managed to survive using the thin compensation Nikos received after being fired. Both parents tried to find new jobs but without result. Soon all the money available for the family was vanished.

In Greece of Samaras’ success story and IMF’s wrong calculations, there are hardly job vacancies available after four full years of recession.

According to official statistics, 27 percent, that is 1.3 million people are unemployed, the majority of them long-term jobless. These numbers refer only to employees and not to self-employed or free-lancers. Unemployment allowance is just 365 euro per month for the duration of total 12 months independently of the years of work life.

At the same time, more than 60% of the country’s population lives either in poverty or is at risk of poverty. According to State Budget Office of the Greek Parliament,  2.5 million Greeks live below the line of relative poverty and another 3.8 million people are at risk of poverty. “Relative poverty” is defined when a family of four has less than 908 euro per month.

Being one of the country’s 1.3m unemployed for more than three years, father Nikos managed to find a job at the kiosk. For 300 euro per month. The money maybe enough to feed the family or cover elementary needs but hardly rent and utility bills. Official statistics define as “Relative poverty” the monthly income of below €908 for a family of four.

Maria told the Proto Thema reporter that it was their pride that has hindered them so far from seeking charity aid and possible beds at the Homeless Shelter.

The story of the new-homeless family shocked the public opinion and mobilized a lot of Greeks who urged the media to open a bank account so that they could send donations. Many offered food and clothing and even work.

A man called at a TV-news magazine featuring the drama of the family and offered a home for the family to live in free of charge.

Deputy Labor Minister Vasilis Kerkeroglou intervened in one of the morning TV-news magazines  reporting on the fate of the family and said that there was a plan on the way to shelter 1,500 homeless and that “half of them could even find a job.”

When the plan will be implemented in real life, it is not known yet.

PS thank God, the government has plans for the poor, who turned poor after the government taxed also the poor, apart from destroyed any effort for growth and development…

 

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Mon, 10/20/2014 - 12:43 | 5355387 Bell's 2 hearted
Bell's 2 hearted's picture

cat recipes?

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 12:52 | 5355439 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

The cat does look a little nervous in that picture, doesn't it?

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 12:54 | 5355452 just-my-opinion
just-my-opinion's picture

I thought the Cat Bounced

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:07 | 5355512 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Strong family. Sure they can go through this tough time together.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:23 | 5355598 Muddy1
Muddy1's picture

Looks a lot like the rest area parking lot along I-25 at Fort Collins, Colorado.

 

Coming to a town near you soon, if not already.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:24 | 5355605 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

BECAUSE OBAMA!!

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:25 | 5355616 zaphod
zaphod's picture

This will be much of the US when the petrodollar finally falls and the country can't print benefits anymore. 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:32 | 5355639 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture

 

 

+1 Zaphod.

It's only when the tide goes out that you can see who's been swimming naked.

When the real recession hits America, then you'll see the 50% of citizens who have no assets (only debt) go from living 'paycheck-to-paycheck' to living in their cars...

 

 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:45 | 5355709 Decolat
Decolat's picture

Wait a minute... Doesn't anybody in this family have any extended family or friends? To turn to for support, companionship, healing? I swear they must be all braindead or assholes or a combination of both to have nowhere to go or no plan B. 

Of course, this describes the American majority living in LaLaLand. This is the time to make REAL connection and community. Fuck the farcebook community. Before the gas and water get shut off. Before the psyche is deluded to the void.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:56 | 5355756 Philo Beddoe
Philo Beddoe's picture

Pride. 

Not sure what their story is...but pride will keep me away from begging until hunger takes hold. Not saying this is correct,,,just the way it is for many. 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:07 | 5355798 Decolat
Decolat's picture

Whos fault is that? You get to choose a life with connections or disconnections. If pride destroys you, well that's your fault.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:10 | 5355818 0b1knob
0b1knob's picture

Solution: drive to a channel port.  Take a ferry to Engand.   On the passage you "convert" to Islam.   England will give you everything.  A home, welfare, free medical care.

Pretend Muslim.   Its how you survive today.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:31 | 5355931 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Poor kitty.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 15:59 | 5356325 Dame Ednas Possum
Dame Ednas Possum's picture

Bad curry.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 15:06 | 5356076 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

In America it is important to be Hispanic professing a Muslim religion. It used to be enough to be black but the progressives discovered that blacks were never going to reproduce enough to become a voting power block, Even with Aid for Dependent Children, so now its Hispanics, legal or not, who are the new oppressed class that we must bow in shame to, financially thrashing ourselves with affirmative action type mentalities. White folks just gotta pay. Pay for the sins of our forefathers, or at least someone's forefathers.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 15:45 | 5356218 sylviasays
sylviasays's picture
While introducing Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto during a visit to the California state capital in Sacramento, California Governor Jerry Brown said America is "the other Mexico," and then said all Mexicans, including illegal immigrants, are welcome in California. Latinos make up nearly 40% of the state's population and have made California only the second state, behind New Mexico, where whites are not the majority and Latinos are the plurality. Even though the University of California has admitted a record number of Hispanics, the Latino Caucus in the California legislature has vowed to make affirmative action and bilingual education top legislative priorities.


http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/08/26/Jerry-Brown-to-Mexica...

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 15:57 | 5356310 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

The Hispanic voting block potentially will yield a much greater bang for the buck than the black vote. Its about numbers...votes. And everyone likes power and money for nothing.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 20:02 | 5357294 Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

Pride doesn't destroy you.....Pride gets you out of bed in the morning, and it ought to also get you out of a car seat. But it's a balance...the same pride that gets you up, might be the pride that gets supressed when you take a job in a restaurant just for scraps...not dollars.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:00 | 5355780 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Do you? I have no extended family in my country.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:03 | 5355788 Decolat
Decolat's picture

No friends either? Am I supposed to feel bad for you?

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:05 | 5355792 Keyser
Keyser's picture

I don't feel sorry for you being an ignorant prick...

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 17:38 | 5356663 Decolat
Decolat's picture

Yeah that may have been a low blow, but if you decide to build a life with no support mechanisms, well that's like building a ship with no lifeboats. Good luck out there! 'And in the End, The love you take is equal to the love you make.' -who cares who wrote that horseshit, right? Meh-

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:58 | 5356039 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

How far do you want to push a friendship?

I will not take what I can't find a way to repay and uncertain times mean uncertain future repayment. I would not ask that friends put their own children at risk for my well-being. We are men & we must persevere with our own skills & means.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 15:16 | 5356118 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

I'm not on facebook so I'm just fucked I guess. If only there was a collective to care for me. The stress of personal responsibility is just too much.

Its not a lack of friends that puts someone in this position, it is a lack of planning, a lack of accurately visualizing reality...the risks of dependency. The collective WANTS you to spend every dollar...they WANT to drive savings out on the street. NOT to stimulate the economy but to be sure that very few if any have any ability to stand on their own. With no savings there is no freedom, no liberty. Even without debt, living hand to mouth each day is resting your dependency upon a system that we do not control. We have bought the lie. We all want nice things...especially if we can't afford them..we need to feel better about ourselves and the more broke we are, the more we NEED to spend. This is an addiction to dependency NO different than any drug sold by a pusher. They make it VERY easy to get hooked and once on, you pay their price, no matter what.

People living in their cars should be a warning to us all, but unfortunately most will simply take it as a message that we need MORE government intervention, more welfare, more food stamps, more collectivization of wealth...not less.

We are doomed

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 17:07 | 5356608 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

NOT a particularly pleasant lifestyle. And not that uncommon too amongst the "disenfranchised". There were more than a few similar cases in Margaret Thatcher's UK, and surviving the typical cold, wet UK winter in a typical small uninsulated European car would have been far from pleasant.

WHilst this is obviously a big problem in Greece, it's not just Greece - even in "Comfortably Off Australia" we have people living in cars (often for extended periods), owing the cost / unavailability of conventional shelter. Of course, at the other end of the "Market", there are the very well-off "Grey Nomads" with their flotilla of Investment Properties, touring Australia in "their" version of home on wheels - http://thegreynomads.com.au/

This standard of accomodation is commonplace - http://liveimages.editorial.carsales.com.au/caravancamping/general/editorial/ge5507368071137621914.jpg?width=298

Which is about as far removed from the experience of the Greek family as you'll get.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 20:07 | 5357269 sylviasays
sylviasays's picture

Australia's carbon tax was such a disaster that much of the 2013 Prime Minister election was centered around the tax.

In the year after Australia’s carbon tax was introduced, household electricity prices rose 15%, including the biggest quarterly increase on record.

The job market had previously been stable, but after Australia’s carbon tax, the number of unemployed workers rose by more than 10%.

As a result of these negative impacts, Australians spoke loud and clear on election day when they voted in Tony Abbott as Prime Minister. The Labor Party, once a staunch supporter of the carbon tax, is now distancing itself from the carbon tax. The carbon tax was repealed this summer. 

Many U.S. Democrats and left-wing environmentalists continue to support implementing a similar system in the U.S. Senator Mark Udall from Colorado touted his support for a price on carbon dioxide emissions. Californians are in for a big surprise this January as a new bump at the gas pump will add a projected 13 to 20 cents per gallon as a result of California's cap and trade program.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:03 | 5355789 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Not everyone has extended family numb nutz... 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:34 | 5355942 The9thDoctor
The9thDoctor's picture

Does group home staff count as extended family?

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 16:05 | 5356348 mkkby
mkkby's picture

Their extended family was mainly Germany, who paid for all their phoney debt and socialism.  "Dad" got fed up and sent them off to care for themselves.

This is a sad story, but 3 billion people world wide have been living in worse conditions.  Something like 80% world wide earn less than $10 a day.  There never were enough productive jobs to go around, and there never will be.

At least the greeks have been able to get by thru money printing and fraud.  Now we see the end game for that. 

50 million inner city americans should watch this space.  They still have time to ditch the apple products, cell phone and cable bills and expensive sneakers and save something for the inevitable shock.  Will they wise up.  F*** no.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 18:03 | 5356784 Decolat
Decolat's picture

Thank you for your post. The Greeks have been sacrificed as the head scout into the restructuring of the West for the NWO to instigate their plan for a depopulated planet. Too many unsupportable slaves. Useless eaters. Who's going down? You? Me? Who goes down depends on YOU and YOUR PLANNING. That includes who you hang with on an intimate basis. Friends. Family. Whoever you can hold on to. 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 16:02 | 5356331 Dame Ednas Possum
Dame Ednas Possum's picture

Downtrodden Americans will be far more fortunate...they have larger cars!

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 17:16 | 5356632 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

Larger exterior, but not necessarily interior.

Potential significant increase in the perceived value of second-hand small panel vans, or even School Buses - http://mentalfloss.com/article/52933/15-creative-converted-school-buses 

Sure beats living out of one of these for six months (OK, it was in a warmer part of the World!) - http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MzgzWDU3NQ==/z/z78AAOxyVLNS1AtD/$_35.JPG, even with the "extra space" offered by the pull-out awning (luxury!) - http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/uploads/cars/land_rover/4704815.jpg

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 21:58 | 5357734 Ben Ghazi
Ben Ghazi's picture

Some Folks with SMART CARS will be truly fucked!

 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 17:09 | 5356612 Kassandra
Kassandra's picture

In the 30's families camped in the truck beds or beside the road on their way to hopefully somewhere better. My family ended up in the Colorado Rockies because that was where the last tire blew out and there was no money to fix it.
This IS our modern day Grapes of Wrath.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:25 | 5355900 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

Let it all wash away.

.

reset.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 15:41 | 5356233 CHX
CHX's picture

Yes, but how, and then what ? Might well be worse for some time - in which case the people who already lost everything are going to survive how (example above) ??? It's a mess now, and will be a mess after a reset, IMO. Rough waters are already here for many and lay ahead for societies around the globe.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 15:54 | 5356303 studfinder
studfinder's picture

Holding on to my minivan...thing is going to be worth its weight in gold. 

 

I've noticed the homeless in my area skyrocket in the last 10 years.  Not sure if its locals or just people moving into the area.  Winter has got to suck (we were below 0F a lot last year).

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 16:25 | 5356442 css1971
css1971's picture

The US is a sovereign nation, they can always print.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 20:08 | 5357320 Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

Note to self....at least have a small van or a pickup with a camper that you can sleep in comfortably (yes, a 30 inch wide, 4 inch thick memory foam mattress is more comfortable than what 99% of the world sleeps on......and, for the record, I do)

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:30 | 5355929 Theosebes Goodfellow
Theosebes Goodfellow's picture

BECAUSE OBAMA!!

~"Obama Administration Quietly Prepares 'Surge' Of Millions Of New Immigrant IDs"~

And where pray tell will they work? Maybe they can move straight into vehicles...

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 15:03 | 5356061 buttmint
buttmint's picture

Muddy +15 for your observation. GREECE? I thought the interview was at the local WalMart! GO LONG WALMART PARKING LOTS.

All local shelters are now long term housing for many. Tough to squat when temps dip below 20F. The November exodus is on for homeless to make their way to Tucson, Phoenix, LV, and all of SoCal. Hey, you have mild yuear round weather, time to SHARE IT. The Joad's have hit the road again. Grapes of Wrath, Part 20.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 17:36 | 5356703 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

Do WalMart charge a fee for overnight parking? With the Waltons' certain concern over their dwindling retail sales, renting overnight (or longer-term) carpark space for the "newly mobile lifestyle" families might be a secure, and expanding, income stream.

Who knows, some of their "Campers" may even be WalMart employees - so "Staff quickly on hand" in a crisis might be a double benefit?

(Some years ago we borrowed an RV in the UK and "camped out" overnight is one or two Motorway Service areas. We WERE charged an overnight fee - not much, about 5 Pounds (Stg), but this was in a smaller Service Area. I'm told (by regular Caravanners "over there") that the Service Areas on major Motorways (M1 for example) charge up to 15 Pounds a NIGHT - but you do have a pretty good level of services including washroom facilities. This is an overnight fee on a par with many Caravan Parks, which makes one think a little!!

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 12:57 | 5355459 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

I MF's U!

U MF's deserve no sympathy....

Check out the documentary Life and Debt

 

http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/life_and_debt

 

and this, if called:

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/04/15/the-death-of-empathy/

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:08 | 5355809 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

European Unity just makes me so proud!  A happy future like this is what everyone South and West of the Alps has to look forward to.  

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 15:19 | 5356130 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Just be careful when one of your southern neighbors invites you over for "dinner". They look mighty hungry.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 21:49 | 5357705 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

A still from "Eating Rauol..."

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 16:07 | 5356357 Excursionist
Excursionist's picture

One benefit of European unity is that this Greek family can work anywhere in the EU.

I fully realize how hard it can be to pick up and emigrate at the age of 49 with two teenaged kids, but what is preventing this family from striking out to better environments (yes, they exist in the EU)?  If for no other reason, than to spare their daughters from graduating university and becoming prostitutes for lack of alternatives?

Human history is full of migration waves for escaping scenarios like the cesspool Greece has become.  What is keeping this family in place??

Thesis:  Whereas 100+ years ago people without two nickles to rub together somehow found ways of emigrating thanks to the absence of nanny states and upbringings espousing self-reliance, today's would-be EU emigrants are effectively dumb cattle because of decades of socialist policies.  This family has the potential to die in their car waiting for the state to save them.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 16:25 | 5356438 css1971
css1971's picture

FYI.

Lots of Spanish, Italians and Greeks appearing in Berlin. Also Russians, Poles and Ukranians, who all get along just fine BTW outside their own countries.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:17 | 5355565 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

I'm just sick of seeing this so called austerity blamed for everything. So, the solution is that the govts should just keep borrowing and taxing ever greater amounts of money until prosperity is achieved? Since that has NEVER worked in history. Ever. Another point, which of these countries engaged in 'austerity' have actually reduced their debts? Because simply saying we were going to run a 5% of GDP deficit, but only came in at 3.5% or whatever, is not fucking austerity. I do feel bad for these people, for they naively believed their lying politicians. This isn't a lesson that so called austerity is evil and the gpvt should 'do something' ( which means spend more money it doesn't have) it should serve as a lesson to all people what happens when you allow any govt to have that much control over your lives, your economy, and believe their empty promises. More freedom is the answer, not more govt spending and debt

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:21 | 5355588 ATM
ATM's picture

Government is a necessary evil, but it is evil none the less.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:33 | 5355640 zaphod
zaphod's picture

Bullshit. The government is NOT a necessary evil.

The government is only needed when people cannot take care of themselves. It is only needed when you raise generations of people to not be able to look after themselves, but instead look towards others to provide. Works great until the day the government can no longer provide. That is Greece today. The US was built by people who took care of themselves and looked to no one else to provide. But that mindset/culture has been eradicated.

When the benefit train stops in the US (and it will someday) all of the suffering you will witness will be the result of generations of dependancy, and the people responsible will be those who encouraged a mindset of entitement at the expense of self reliance and hard work. 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:56 | 5355754 Marco
Marco's picture

Yeah, they should just homestead a bit of land and build a cabin and subsistence farm ... oh wait, there is no more land to homestead.

The mantra of self reliance makes no sense when all the commons have been enclosed. What you're actually saying is FUGM.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:32 | 5355915 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

oh wait, there is no more land to homestead.

There is plenty of fertile land available in Texas for very reasonable prices, and interest rates have never been lower. It isn't free, but nothing worthwhile is.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:45 | 5355967 The9thDoctor
The9thDoctor's picture

Austerity is bullshit because it's taxpayer money going towards bankster interest and debt, instead of essential services.

Taxes go up, services get cut, banksters get rich.

Goldman Sachs got Greece into this mess, and now the blowhards blame the poor family living in a car for the crimes of Goldman Sachs.

And greenskeeper gets a ton of upvotes for it too? Bullshit.

I thought we were on zero hedge because we hate on banksters, and not the common people being steamrolled over by them.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 15:36 | 5356209 heresy101
heresy101's picture

Jamie Dimon and Lloyd Blankfein should be the one's living out of their cars. It would be a waste of tax dollars to put them in jail.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 16:25 | 5356441 sylviasays
sylviasays's picture

"I thought we were on zero hedge because we hate on banksters, and not the common people being steamrolled over by them."

Some of us hate big government hucksters more because they raise our taxes and then reduce our services while getting paid off by the banksters. 


 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:52 | 5356009 Marco
Marco's picture

Sure, the bank is going to give a loan to somoene with little knowledge of farming to start a small farm ... when small farmers are being squeezed out as it is.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:37 | 5355955 zaphod
zaphod's picture

I never said to homestead, quit putting words in others mouths. I said to be able to take care of oneself. That means to be able to find work to do for others who value and pay you enough to live off of. It also means to save and accumalate savings in younger years for older years. 

Never been on a homestead and have no fantasies of doing so, but am still self-reliant and have flexible options if there is a SHTF moment because I've worked hard, saved and prepared. 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 15:00 | 5356056 Marco
Marco's picture

The market is absolutely awash with independent contractors and service providers already ... if you're the best of the rest then sure you can make money there, but not everyone can be the best of the rest.

What you're advocating is not self reliance, it's reliance on economic niches being available AND your ability to fill them better than anyone else. Neither is guarantueed and neither is purely based on your own efforts.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 15:05 | 5356072 buttmint
buttmint's picture

zaphod...how is Bangkok?

I miss Ban Chang....

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 15:48 | 5356271 GCT
GCT's picture

Although homesteading is nonexistent unless they still do it in Alaska Marco,  90% of the land in the USA is still undeveloped.   Almost all of it oqwned by our government and mostly in the Western United States.

 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:50 | 5356002 Duffy
Duffy's picture

ideological horseshit.

 

grow up.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 15:34 | 5356199 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

And who better to eradicate this notion of self reliance than government? Nothing is necessarily evil, but the collectivization of power is the most fertile ground possible for it to grow in. I'm tired of theory. Theory is bullshit used to sell us on something that has never existed. Self reliance is the backbone of our survival yet theory wants to tell us we can throw that aside and latch our puckered lips on the teat of government dependency and life will become utopia. Speaking of growing up, our first action to independent and survivable life is weaning from the tit, not migrating to ever larger ones.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:42 | 5355689 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

Well said!  Bravo!  But not popular, when everyone is bent on playing 'victim' and searching for (always rich) "villains".

It's not called 'fauxterity' for nothing...

We desperately need higher, much higher, unemployment here - to WAKE PEOPLE UP.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:50 | 5355711 TheGreatRecovery
TheGreatRecovery's picture

"...they naively believed their lying politicians...."  And "economists".  And priests.  And newspaper, magazine, radio, and television "experts", who ALWAYS say "spend more".

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:45 | 5355716 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

"So, the solution is that the govts should just keep borrowing and taxing ever greater amounts of money until prosperity is achieved?"

Creating more claims on energy*. Taxes are irrelevant to modern economics, they are entirely political.

Yes, if you ask the average voter, we should use debt to subsidize energy production until there is literally none of it left to "produce". It can never be repaid any way, even from where we are now. Because the other option is true austerity. The dreaded, must-never-be-imagined L word: less: energy and everything else. The only ways to postpone that are: 1) scientific-technological breakthrough yielding EROEI ratios similar to crudle oil in the good old days or 2) every-growing debt to defer ever-increasing costs of ever-diminishing supplies of (usable) energy.

Place your bets.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:08 | 5355811 JB
JB's picture

Since all 'money' is borrowed into existence at interest, including the 'money' required to pay the interest, THE DEBT CAN NEVER BE PAID.

 

THIS IS A MATHEMATICAL FACT.

KILL ALL THE BANKERS.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:49 | 5355996 The9thDoctor
The9thDoctor's picture

@JB

I'm glad you get it.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 16:20 | 5356388 css1971
css1971's picture

Eh no, you're wrong. Yes it can be paid off.

It's just excruciatingly painful economically to do so and allows the banker to "skim" from everything.

Would you like me to show you?

 

Boom!

Person A borrows $100 into existence from Banker B at 30% interest.

A:  100
B: -100

Time passes.

A: 100
B: -100 debt and -30 interest debt

A pays the interest and 30 off the principal.

A: 30
B: -70 debt and now has 30 cash.

B buys 30 worth of goods and services from A.  <--- Banker skimming from the economy for free. Notice also the deflation.

A: 60
B: -70

Time passes.

A: 60
B: -70 debt and -21 interest debt

A pays the interest and 30 off the principal.

A: 9
B: -40 debt and now has 21 cash.

B buys 21 worth of goods and services from A. <--- Banker skimming from the economy for free. Notice also the deflation.

A: 30
B: -40

Time passes

A: 30
B: -40 debt and -12 interest debt

A pays the interest and 18 off the principal. This would have to be negotiated probably due to it not being the specified amount of 30.

A: 0  <---- Notice just how painful this is getting for A?
B: -22 debt and now has 12 cash

B buys 12 worth of goods and services from A. <--- Banker skimming from the economy for free. Notice also the deflation.

A: 12
B: -22

Time passes.

A: 12
B: -22 debt and -6.6 interest debt

A pays the interest and 5.4 off the principal.

A: 0   <---- poor sod.
B: 16.6 and now has 6.6 in cash to spend.

B buys 6.6 worth of goods and services from A. <--- Banker skimming from the economy for free. Notice also the deflation.

etc. etc. Point being the loan can in fact be paid off, but the values get closer and closer asymptotically to $0 money in the economy. So it's all deflation apart from the original boom created by the loan in the first place. And A is getting fucked for ever as the bankers skim from everything in the economy.

I still recommend rope for the bankers though. I also recommend paper money because it can pay multiple debts off, but credit bookeeping money can only pay 1 debt.

Today in Europe we're leveraged out 100:1 so you could expect 99% deflation while attempting to pay the debts off.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 16:02 | 5356335 Vullsain
Vullsain's picture

Austerity may force these countrys to reform their bloated public pension systems and cut the incredible level of tax evasion of the wealthy who have been fleecing the system,

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:16 | 5355566 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:30 | 5355630 just-my-opinion
just-my-opinion's picture

get rid of the cat....get a dog......these markets are drivin me crazy....Like I don't have enuff ....Crazy

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:37 | 5355672 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

A faithful cat (is there such a thing?) will catch and bring back mice and birds to eat. A dog, not so much.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:00 | 5355770 ersatz007
ersatz007's picture

my cat has always brought me mice.  so, i have nothing to worry about when the SHTF and i get shit-canned from my jog and my unemployment runs out...i will always have food so long as I have a cat.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:21 | 5355879 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

A friend of mine once had a pet roclk. All it ever brought him was mockery.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:55 | 5356024 25or6to4
25or6to4's picture

FealSerf
My little Yorkie catches and kills rabbits in the back yard. So if you like your mice you can keep your mice.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 15:28 | 5356183 Baldrick
Baldrick's picture

+1 for varmit killers!

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:53 | 5355748 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

The cat's the only one who's armed - teeth & claws - and also can be awake when they're not, in the dark, very easily.

A cat can't fill 4 bellies. A human can feed a cat many times over.

Who's gonna be nervous.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:14 | 5355551 drendebe10
drendebe10's picture

It's okay as long as the corrupt incompetent arrogant narcissistic illegal indonesian kenyan alien muslim sociopathic pathological liar in chief gets to live its overprivileged opulent celebrity grand imperial golf style.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:33 | 5355648 just-my-opinion
just-my-opinion's picture

I give you an up-vote.....For the big words but I like the Golf input at the end

 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:17 | 5355570 Brokenarrow
Brokenarrow's picture

that shit aint funny, bitch. and, ill give you my address. ill put you to sleep

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:43 | 5355699 just-my-opinion
just-my-opinion's picture

I'm 6foot 3 280lbs....you tralkin to me...little boy...there aint to many people here who will put up with your shit

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:51 | 5355741 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Y'all calm down here... right meow!

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:01 | 5355781 ersatz007
ersatz007's picture

+1

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 17:38 | 5356693 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Brokenarrow...

 

My name is Thomas O'Brien

 

My address is

 

12223B Woodside Avenue.

Lakeside, CA USA

 

I am not like just my opinion in this regard. I will give you my address.

 

Let's go hunting. Bring your guns.

 

I am in an apartment above Westcoast Pawn.

Tue, 10/21/2014 - 01:09 | 5358206 fedupwhiteguy
fedupwhiteguy's picture

East County, eh!!!!

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 12:44 | 5355389 DontGive
DontGive's picture

Not entirely homeless - at least they have a car to live in. Look at the bright side, can always sell it for scrap metal...

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:01 | 5355477 Bangalore Equit...
Bangalore Equity Trader's picture

Listen Give.

Who owns the scrap yard? Ab Slimestein?

OH!

Listen seriously folks. The poor poor Americans. They are exceptional and should live a lifestyle of richness and fame. Not like those Greek people, let them live in the streets!

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:01 | 5355783 ersatz007
ersatz007's picture

LISTEN...to the flower people...

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:38 | 5355953 silverliberty
silverliberty's picture

It is not the Americans, who did this to the Greeks.  It was their own beloved government.  The Greeks even asked their neighbors(the EU).  Well, you see the result. 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:24 | 5355894 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Americans are so much better off. They have Escalades and camper-top F350s to live in. Plus, taxes are a lot lower than if one has real estate.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 12:44 | 5355397 papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

Can find that in any us metro area...

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 12:49 | 5355415 SumTing Wong
SumTing Wong's picture

But for the grace of God go I...blessed to have a good job, a work ethic, and an education that will keep me in a job were this job to go...my story is likely the story of many ZHers. 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 12:51 | 5355430 just-my-opinion
just-my-opinion's picture

Thank you for creating GOD.....must be nice to be so-Awsome

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:09 | 5355522 just-my-opinion
just-my-opinion's picture

I didn't know there were so many dumb-asses on this site....What is up SAT 800

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 15:42 | 5356243 SumTing Wong
SumTing Wong's picture

That's either Doctor Dumbass or Professor Dumbass to you, smart guy. With a doctorate and three different master degrees from three different countries speaking three different languages, I actually know a thing or two about the three different departments I teach in. A lot of people ask to hear me speak on a couple of different continents. So, some anonymous troll on the Internet isn't going to wound my self esteem.

By the way, I'm a dumb ass a lot. You should ask my wife.

Notice that although Neitzsche thought that God was dead, I can actually show you that Neitzsche is dead.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 17:54 | 5356763 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

But can you translate Goethe, or can anyone?

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:13 | 5355547 sandman.s
sandman.s's picture

Oh I get it.  You're one of those dickhead atheists whose opinions trump everyone elses and you just can't help but to spout your crap whenever you get the chance.  Yup that is you.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:30 | 5355628 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Yeah at least they could believe in The Flying Spaghetti Monster who boiled for their sins!

Cause at there's some morality in it and belief in a nutritional higher power.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:48 | 5355723 just-my-opinion
just-my-opinion's picture

I like the Sketti-monster.....Sins just get you in jail....other than that....alll fun and games

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 12:53 | 5355438 Philo Beddoe
Philo Beddoe's picture

I have a technical background but make most of my income from sales. I worry for the day someone invents a bullshitting app/program that will make me disposable.  

Looks like you have lost weight Mr. Johnson. How is that lovely wife of yours? Great, here is some shit that you should buy. 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 12:56 | 5355457 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

As somebody who has spent their entire career working in "sales" in one form or another, there is no need to worry about somebody inventing a machine/program/app to do that.  It will never happen.

What WILL happen is that they will make people obsolete and there will eventually not be a need for sales.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 12:59 | 5355478 Philo Beddoe
Philo Beddoe's picture

What WILL happen is that they will make people obsolete and there will eventually not be a need for sales.

That is the biggest worry. No sarc. Most salesman/people worth their muster can just simply sell. Give them a few months..if that of product training..and they are off to the races. That said, I know some really good salescats that are starting to suffer.  I, for one, have to do more reacharounds and fluffing lately. 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:15 | 5355554 indygo55
indygo55's picture

How long are these Greeks going to take this shit? Have they all been drugged up or just made stupid? I thought humans rose up when this kind of shit happens. Like in the US. Obama has absolutely destroyed everything he touches. Where is the insurrection? Whos going to move first?

 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:26 | 5355610 Eyeroller
Eyeroller's picture

From news reports, a helluva lot of people MOVED OUT of the stadium while Obozo was speaking.

 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:15 | 5355555 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Someday they create robots or computers to trade worthless pieces of virtual paper with each other.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:08 | 5355810 ersatz007
ersatz007's picture

isn't that already happening - i believe it's called an 'algorhithm' because no one likes the sound of 'automated trading'.  

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 15:05 | 5356067 The9thDoctor
The9thDoctor's picture

Algorithm is a big word.

The newspeak term for that is algos.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:19 | 5355584 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

What WILL happen is that they will make people obsolete and there will eventually not be a need for sales.

People being obsolete is just over the horizon, the software is already there just need to go through the hurdles of replacing everyone. In a couple decades most people will be 'long term unemployed.'

Good news though, the people who I know with the highest salaries ($400k+) tend to be in some variation of sales. If you're good at selling stuff you'll probably be among the last to be replaced is my guess. Just don't sell to the plebs. 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:30 | 5355626 ATM
ATM's picture

Every company since the dawn of time has tried to get rid of sales people. 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:35 | 5355651 Philo Beddoe
Philo Beddoe's picture

Exactlly. That is why I seek hard to sell products where I can dictate the commish. 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:37 | 5355666 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

In Soviet Russia, salesman buys from you.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 22:21 | 5356942 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

It has been my experience that the jobs I had when I made the most money were the ones that put the biggest bull's eye on my back.  

Being a highly paid consultant was followed by outsourcing most of the US consulting force to India where entry level programmers were sold as high level consultants.  

No one is immune and sales guys are not that special.  Salesman will go the way of Real Estate Sales

 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:52 | 5355744 cnmcdee
cnmcdee's picture

Sell me this pen....

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:05 | 5355794 ersatz007
ersatz007's picture

Yep - won't matter if you can sell ice to an eskimo if the eskimo has no money for the ice since the eskimo was replaced by robots.  The only sales people that will survive is those selling toys to the mega-rich.  Everything else will be free once the techno rapture occurs (or the 'singularity' as it's otherwise called).  

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:48 | 5355727 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

So Google ads isn't that machine already?

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 15:38 | 5356216 css1971
css1971's picture

Nope. The economy works for us, not us for the economy.

Once they make people obsolete economically, they by definition,  make the economic system obsolete.

 

 

... Unfortunately I expect the process to involve lots of death and destruction.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:04 | 5355501 Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

Right turn Clyde!

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:07 | 5355514 Philo Beddoe
Philo Beddoe's picture

It would be nice to drive around in cirlces in DC for about a week. 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:55 | 5355755 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Wasn't Miriam Carey driving in circles.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:15 | 5355561 drendebe10
drendebe10's picture

Can you say "Amazon"?

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:21 | 5355593 cherry picker
cherry picker's picture

I can relate to your words.  In the eighties it wasn't so bad, you may even be able to make an appointment with a prospective client.

With voice mail, screening and so on including the search tools available on the internet, sales people are often regarded as pariah.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:26 | 5355618 Philo Beddoe
Philo Beddoe's picture

There is an upside. No sarc. 

When I started back in the mid 90s I had many sits and waited by fax machines and the UPS box. 

Now, I have many clients that I have never met face to face. Plus, I no longer have an assistant. Plus....plus..I can make my cold calls anywhere in the world and choose to do so in my underwear. 

Most prospects do not even want sits anymore...they just want numbers and a little bullshit so they know that they have been sold. 

 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:47 | 5355721 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Dr. Bob. Space Station 76.

That is all :)

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:00 | 5355474 just-my-opinion
just-my-opinion's picture

There is someting wrong with you....you are a dumb-ass....Oh and my IQ is only 165.....I guess that guess that makes me stupid and you and your god are so smart....good luck with that.....GOD....that a stupid consept

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:05 | 5355504 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

You only have a 165 IQ?  You're pulling my leg.  Gotta be higher than that.  I mean, seriously, look at that masterpiece you just wrote.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:10 | 5355524 Philo Beddoe
Philo Beddoe's picture

I think he is a high school engish teacher. 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:15 | 5355557 just-my-opinion
just-my-opinion's picture

No....I'm an engineer......I did smoke in the past.....you peeps crack me up

 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:20 | 5355579 Philo Beddoe
Philo Beddoe's picture

Engineer. So, you are a people person. 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:37 | 5355667 Pareto
Pareto's picture

Nope...........still just a dip shit.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:38 | 5355670 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

Just because he went to college doesn't mean he ain't stupid.  165 my ass.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:38 | 5355677 V in PA
V in PA's picture

I wasn't going to log in today, but dammit that deserved a +1. I'm a Socially Akward SOB (Engineer) and I resemble that remark.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:41 | 5355968 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

Your communication skills are exemplary.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 15:19 | 5356133 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAY27NU1Jog

One click convenience - for those (like me) that don't have typing skillz

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:08 | 5355807 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Just my opinion, but I think God made you screw up that post to make you look foolish.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 16:53 | 5356530 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

just my opinion...

 

What is an engineering absurdity?

 

What number is that? Quantify it please.

 

What is a logarithm?

 

What is an Order of Magnitude?

 

What does a probability of ZERO mean?

 

What does a probability of ONE mean?

 

What is the Range of Probabilities?

 

What is an infinitesimal? Is it a Real Number?

 

You have enough symbols available to you, on the menu above in a Reply Box, for a Mathematical Response.

 

Are you an Empiricist? (I am.)

 

Please continue...

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:16 | 5355558 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Only thing he missed was spelling stupid with two o's in the middle.

By the way, welcome to Fight Club, kid.  Everyone fights their first night.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:17 | 5355567 Ness.
Ness.'s picture

Ok just-my-o, heres you're khanse.  Consentrate hard like.  Reals hard, cauz dis is a tough won.

Hint:  their is won of thes in the pikchore.

 

C _ T

 

Go...

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:17 | 5355571 just-my-opinion
just-my-opinion's picture

I have no-debt....I own everything that touches this house....I am crazy....but not stupid

 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:57 | 5356034 BandGap
BandGap's picture

I think you meant a 165 IQ in metric terms. That's about 65 in real terms.

What house do they keep you at?

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 16:57 | 5356570 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

If you live in the United States then you rent your house.

 

See what happens if you do not pay the state your annual rent?

 

They will repossess.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:20 | 5355589 Croesus
Croesus's picture

@ NoDebt: 

You just have to love internet warriors who brag about their intelligence, while simultaneously misspelling a simple word like concept

 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:26 | 5355613 20-20 Hindsight
20-20 Hindsight's picture

Yup... and they fite to death to proove there point.  

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 15:06 | 5356079 The9thDoctor
The9thDoctor's picture

+1 for the correct use of "there" in this particular context!

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 17:25 | 5356668 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Whom here has not misspelled a word?

 

Are you turning into Grammar Cops because you feel intimidated?

 

He claimed not to be advanced in the Language Arts and claimed Mathematics to be his forte.

 

One of my contemporaries, while being schooled, was a brilliant Physicist.

 

He could neither spell words nor write a coherent English sentence.

 

He claims to excel in Mathematics. I agree that very few are capable of understanding Math. That will account for an elevated IQ score. 

 

Okay. Let's just see how rational he is.

 

I asked him some simple questions in a post above. Let's just see how he responds.

 

(He had best remember that Genius is simplicity. I will dock points for needless complex answers. I am hoping that he dazzles me with brilliance rather than attempts to baffle me with bullshit. Yeah. I enjoyed teaching beginning engineers.)

Wed, 10/22/2014 - 11:18 | 5363481 gallistic
gallistic's picture

Are you giving him a test, professor?

 

"He claims to excel in Mathematics. I agree that very few are capable of understanding Math. That will account for an elevated IQ score. Okay. Let's just see how rational he is. I asked him some simple questions in a post above. Let's just see how he responds.

He had best remember that Genius is simplicity. I will dock points for needless complex answers. I am hoping that he dazzles me with brilliance rather than attempts to baffle me with bullshit. Yeah. I enjoyed teaching beginning engineers."

 

Sweet mother of mercy! You really are an insufferably pompous ass!

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:37 | 5355633 Philo Beddoe
Philo Beddoe's picture

Reminds me of all my buddies who somehow lost their virginities while on vacation to Knott's Berry Farm. More amazing, they all group up in Pasadena. 

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:43 | 5355705 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Ya, who does he think he's fighting here... Edgar Allen Pow?

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 13:58 | 5355772 TheGreatRecovery
TheGreatRecovery's picture

Many engineers are not great at spelling.

Everyone is smart, but in different ways.

Mon, 10/20/2014 - 14:38 | 5355951 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Be all you can't be

on the internet, today !!!

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!