This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Santelli & Schiff: "A Messy Exit Is A Given... Ending QE Will Plunge US Into Severe Recession"
"Markets are slowly coming to grips with reality is not going to be as easy as everybody thought," Peter Schiff tells CNBC's Rick Santelli, noting the pick up in volatility across asset classes recently. What The Fed clearly does not understand, Schiff blasts, is that "you cannot end quantitative easing without plunging the US into a severe recession." Because of the Fed's extreme monetary policy and the mal-investment that flows from it, Schiff says, "The US economy is more screwed up now than it's ever been in history." Most prophetically, we suspect, Santelli agrees that "a messy exit is a given," and Schiff believes they know that and that is why QE4 is coming simply "because it hasn't worked and they can't admit it's been a dismal failure."
The two oddly-similar-tie-wearing skeptics go on to discuss the catalysts for slowdown aside from QE exit and the endgame...
»
- 45592 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
and who screwed up the economy...
the same guys who want the FREE MONEY!
only thing we know for sure is that obola is not going to take the blame for it...
So the gong show known as QE4ever where the rich gets richer and the poor gets poorer must continue OR we all go down together.....thats obvious, I rather be tilling the fields with Larry Muthafuckin Fink on my right and Mark Suckerberg on my left.
Hey codecode,
Not true. Obama lama ding dong is immaculated until Nov. '16. This house of cards will fall before then...
;-D
"Obama lama ding dong" is my new favorite thing
IMO, they won't start QE4 until we are either on the verge of or in the midst of another banking crisis. Stawks crashing means a temporary further inflation of the bond bubble. Of course, if stawks crashing means that there will be another banking crisis, we'll get QE4 on that and the fed won't get to keep UST yields suppressed by letting the "market" crash.
"you cannot end quantitative easing without plunging the US into a severe recession."
And that's exactly what they want Peter, right after which they'll take everyone into a war and there is absolutely nothing you or me can do about it...
I'm gonna hide in a Detroit basement.
ttradingdaze..can I join you? I have a complete set of Bobn Seger Albums!
LOL!
Timing will be important. I don't foresee how it plays out but QE4, market crashing, and elections aren't going to happen in an accidental fashion.
Not to be a grammar police but llama is spelled with two 'l's.
Hey TWD, you haven't heard? The Dali lama is going to be replaced by the Nobel Prize winning Obama lama. The man who would be king is the most versatile human being on the planet...
;-D
- Ogden Nash
Ooooooo! silk pajama lama... I LIKE IT!!! ;-D
You master, are a true snark,,, ;-D
Yeah, then you could kick their lily asses every two hours during the mandatory 10 minute work break.
Divided States said: "I rather be tilling the fields with Larry Muthafuckin Fink on my right and Mark Suckerberg on my left."
I'd rather they were mucking out the stables and spreading manure on the fields while I serviced their Women.
And when they were done have them dig their own graves for the neighborhood hanging party.
Tell them it's going to be a shindig with moonshine and hookers.
@codecode. I Like that. I was trying to come up with a pun or cryptogram for Ebola & Obama like Obola or Ebama but I think you made me think... He IS "Ebola" A virus from another country that migrates here to slowly feed on, suck out out the insides of the people until they die. That is about as perfect as it gets. Thank you!
Does anyone still believe they will actually end QE?
Elsewhere: Al Sharpton's desperate last-minute election stunt
http://tinyurl.com/npbpknr
I vacillate between the two options:
Either way they rake the chips off the table of savers and retirees while bleeding the middle out.
The question is how much power and control do they think they have, and which model will get them the most money?
I kind of think option 2 is the one they will follow, as it aligns better with the Skinner conditioning model for mice.
Nothing will improve for the average guy until we have some decent lamp-post ornaments.
The way things are going, something is bound to break in spectacular fashion.
The question is how much power and control do they think they have, and which model will get them the most money?
It seems this option is the most likely to result in social unrest. The people are not happy and I cannot imagine the bankers getting away with fraud again this time without some serious violence.
That leaves QE-fo-eva.
sschu
Option 2 would suggest that raising rates would have to happen sooner rather than later, at the minute they are jawboning a Q3 15 rate rise, i dont think the 'Financial Market' will last that long, which suggests Option 1 will continue until the first elephant bolts out of the room.
The Fed has 2 modes: a positive and a double negative.
QE is just a new name for what they've been doing since 1913 - picking winners and losers with printed money. They either admit it, or lie about it. So, what will they do next? Lie a little less or lie a little more? I'm dying of anticipation!
my neighbor's half-sister makes $63 /hour on the internet . She has been out of work for 10 months but last month her pay was $16551 just working on the internet for a few hours. More Info... www.job-reports.com
Crickets, while the banksters gorge ever more on monetary crack from the Fed-pusher window ...
Who Controls Amerika. A list of the Elite Globolists.
http://thezog.info/list-summaries/
Chupacabra-322
Who controls America?
You don't need a link for that! The corporations control America. By the way, financial are part of corporations. Wonder how you can tell?
Who got rescued at the last crash?
Who gets free money to extract ‘Usury’ and ‘Currency-Arbitrage’?
If you want to know who's in charge, just look for those that cannot be criticised.......
logicalman
This is Zero Hedge, there’s more freedom of information and democracy here than the entire US.
Yes, you can make fun of the Jews, I guess. I don’t think the Jews care.
The problem with the Jews is discrimination. Let me give you example:
If you go to Recife, a Dutch colony in the Northeast Brazil from 1630’s through 1654, it had a Jewish community larger than the Jewish community in Amsterdam. The first synagogue built in the Americas is in Recife, Brazil.
Once the Dutch lost the war against the Portuguese and, because the Jews didn’t believe that Jesus Christ was the savior, the Portuguese kicked the Jews out of Recife.
So, these Jews sailed to Havana, Cuba. But again, because the Jews didn’t believe in Jesus Christ as the savior, this time the Spanish didn’t let the Jews in.
So, these Jews didn’t have any other option but to come north, to New York City [I kid you not]. I guessed they were afraid of the South of the US, not because of the weather, but because they would be facing the same Jesus’ nonsense.
Anyway, as if this whole mediocrity could not get any worse, but it always does, if the Jews had gone east, they would eventually have to face the other nonsense called Allah, instead
Now, we have many wondering why the Jews became the masters of money [after been deprived and discriminated of opportunities for so long] and Israel is so paranoid to the point of having about 150 atomic bombs, as well as submarines with atomic bombs.
Well, wonder NO more!
I am one here that criticizes those who blame Jews. According the the list link posted a lot of the people in charge are Jews. A lot are not. Blame the Jews and you miss a very high percentage of the problem.
I do not know how to explain the high percentage of Jews in those roles except through cronyism. After all, the Italian mafia is pretty much all Italian (Sicilian, don't kill me:) and people do not call for wiping out or deporting or doing whatever to all Italians.
My point is that it isn't the religion or blood. It is a philosophy and culture. If you don't focus on what is really going on then you miss the reality of the big picture.
Personally, I believe that a good number of people who come out and blame the Jews and call for action are deliberately trying to discredit the liberty movement and divert attention away from the real problem(s). They are either stupid or useful tools of TPTB.
Not all Nazis were German. Not all Germans were Nazis. All Nazis were vermin. A ruthless murdering, thieving, raping, and pillaging globalist (or whatever they really should be called) is just that. Nothing more, nothing less. If people want to round up the criminals then round them all up.
Corporations tend not to own and run themselves. They are not people.
Did Schiff start charging everyone for his show? The link to listen fror free is gone?
It's now a youtube podcast once a week.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYiyQl7O6HI
He's only doing the podcast now. No more show. Sounds like he's getting ready to move everything over to Australia finally IMO.
Considering his dad's in the clink because of taxes while Corzine is still free, I'd probably leave the US, too.
He's indicated that he will move his home and business to Puerto Rico because of it having less tax liability.
Uhh, I don't think he's going to do that. Sure you can pay for security there, but the medical system there...
he stopped doing it all together, didn't get enough traction I guess. The sheep would rather listed to Rush Limbaugh & Mark Levin bitch about democrats than get the economic truth as to why their lives are so shitty.
Mark Levin bitches about Democrats and Rino Republicans. He's a constitutional scholar and not an investment advisor.
Mark Levin is a neocon who salivates at the idea of blowing mountain tops off in Iraq & Afghanistan. He talks about the Constitution but really just wants to perpetuate the bullshit with the political cronies that schlob his knob.
If Levin was so in favor of the Constitution, why did he spend so much time trashing Ron Paul, the man who voted for the Constitution for so many decades. Levin is a fucking piece of garbage.
Listen CNR.
And that's putting it lightly! +100. How do those guys even get on USSA radio?
When I was over at Research Triangle Park he would come on at night and he would just turn my stomach. I asked myself: "How does this guy have an audience"?
Then I remembered that I was in America! That guy would be torn to pieces in India. Literally!
Mark Levin is fucking annoying.
The mere fact that he supports a Constitutional Convention should be a clue and a complete turnoff!
Try not to say stupid shit on ZH. Levin does not support a constitutional convention, for one big reason - there's no such thing! What he supports is a Convention of the States, for the purpose of submitting proposed constitutional amendments to the people.
As to why it should be a turnoff, you lost me.
You are apparently new to this country so I will begin to explain the concern with a question: Do you understand who counts the people's votes?
I'll paraphrase an old dead communist dictator: It doesn't matter how the people vote. What matters is who counts the votes.
Putting the Constitution in play at this point would end up effectively removing the Bill of Rights for something like the EU constitution.
Rush, Hannity, Levin, etc all provided me information on how I started shaping my political life. So they get that credit. But I figured if I went that far there might be more to the story, and let alone, there was. So I can't fault those dudes because they started to open my eyes. They were the conduit to get me asking questions. Problem is, plenty of people stop there asking questions. There's always more to the story it seems.
The unneccessary complication of the financial system is what makes all the scams possible.
Only the 'high priests' know enough to guide humanity throught the bullshit they've created.
True wealth comes from producing something of value, not from bullshit financial mumbo-jumbo.
Taxation is theft, and inflation is just a back-door tax.
Real money, no fractional reserve and an end to usury would fix things up real fast.
His show is gone because 90% of his listeners were his clients.......and they're gone cuz their accounts were down 30-80%. Almost all of his firms private placements went to ZERO.....as in you invest 100k and you now have nothing.
Im a client and listener. What private placements are you talking about? The only complaint i have is that many of the funds are flat year over year, but thats a function of assets over USD which foreigners are subsidizing (foolishly believing they can print their way out of collapse) trading their assets for printed money. The USD had a last ditch run this last month as funds cashed out to search for safe havens. but the USD strength spells more trouble for the USG that cant afford inferest payments in deflationary falling revenue. So either the fed will resume QE and kill the USD rally (lighting a rocket under assets incl schiffs portfolio) , or the fed will stand by and allow the markets to burn into a pile of ashes. Which do you think is more likely?
I think we vote the bastids out of office in November, and give Peter Schiff a group he can relate to and communicate with.
The "markets" will only burn to ashes if the current regime runs out of self-serving options and is allowed to stay in power.
Schiff is brilliant, he is not easily distracted, but he needs to express his thoughts in the current "currency". It would be a different story if the Gov't figures were not fudged...
you must either be:
A) A new client
B) Peter Schiff
C) Andrew Schiff
D) A PR firm that Peter Schiff Hired to clean up his and his firms name
And you are clearly not involved in any of his private placements. I have a friend that was a client that lost hundreds of thousands.....and he's not alone. Placements he was involved in that went to zero include a company called China Nutrifruit, Mission New Energy, some chinese goat milk company, and one other that I can't remember. ALL OF THEM WENT TO ZERO.
I do find it really odd to see Rick Santelli, a respected, even if highly vocal, commodities trader, next to Peter Schiff, who I would consider on par with Alex Jones.
That all kind of depends on who wins the election and what those winners do. If it is the Reds AND they make a power play then the economy will crash. If they lose or are willing to play ball then QE4Eva.
Yeah its just a podcast now. Once a week about an Two and a half hours, you can get it on youtube.com. I actually prefer it to the old show, no commercials and though I like a lot of what he says, 2.5 hours a week is plenty of Schiff.
His bit about the Bernank being similar to a waiter that could pull the table cloth and the table out from under the dishes without breaking any was solid Gold.
Kicking the can down the road-
And off the cliff -
With us to follow?
Repost since on topic
Alternatives to QE: (Not that I like these, just trying to guess our Future)
- Take all Income taxes & Corporate Taxes for 2 years and pour them into the US Stock Market, should be $1.5 Trillion plus, it is all Fiat anyway, and by the end of the first Year Public Outcry on the Federal Budget would Drive Congress back to really doing budget work and cutting costs
- Federal Platinum Fund in US Treasury which would pour money into US Stock Market, it is all Fiat anyway
- Privatize Social Security, pour money into US Bonds & US Stocks
- US National Industry for Global Radio Active Waste Storage & Disposal, Pay us, we put the money into US Stocks & Bonds
- US National Lands Leasing, Mining, Drilling, perfect for small rich countries like Singapore who need land, pour the money into US Stocks & Bonds
- US National Fund of Real Estate that is Vacant/Foreclosed, after inventory, sell to foreigners, make loans available for Foreign Buyers, pour money into US Stocks & Bonds
Any other wild ideas? Too many I guess.
Third Way going to make new Senators & Congressmen this time? Koch Brothers funding new candidates.
The only solution that I have seen or read about that fits the model of past monetary shifts is the E Dollar. The E Dollar not only addresses the debt and maintains the unbreakable convenant of historic shifts in US monetary systems. Namely it allows the banks and government to get stronger.
http://www.businessinsider.com/electronic-currency-2013-11
The list of ways this helps the government is long. First, since eventually the old paper dollar would go extinct and all commerce would be electronic, it would be easy for the government to track money thus easier to tax. This would certainly please tax and spend liberals who try and vilify anyone who attempts to avoid taxes, even though that is what this nation was founded on. Another benefit of being able to track the new e-dollars is black market transactions in dollars would disappear. This would delight right of center. Without cash, illegal drug trade would have a major barrier. An even a bigger feather to the right is that it would be more difficult for people to hide secondary income thus take advantage of entitlements while working “under the table”. Illegal immigrates would also have a much more difficult time living in the US, talk about a plus for the conservatives. The government also wouldn’t need to spend money to create new bills and coinage. Finally the biggest pro is the governmental debt will be priced in the “old” dollars, meaning the burden of the national debt would decrease by as much as the Fed decides to set the negative interest rate at annually. So we’ve pleased both sides of the isle, now on to the banks. Well the benefit to the banks is quite clear, not only are you forced to keep your savings with them to speculate with and collect their standard fees on, but they also will be able to charge you interest for the privilege. Some of the concerns that run a distant third, those of the people of the United States COULD also be addressed. I emphasize COULD because they will only help a certain portion of the population and only if the powers in the government and banks feel as if they need more popular support for the E dollar. As with the government debt, the new system COULD allow ALL old debt to be priced in the old dollars thus lessening the burden on anyone holding previous debts, and with a large portion of the population with underwater home mortgages and huge student loans I’m sure the relief would be welcome. The losers in this would be those who were prudent and didn’t take on large debts but since there are far more debtors then savers, politically the plan would still be a winner. I have to admit before learning the truth about our system I racked up my fair share of debt and a little piece of me would be relieved. Though I think the Government would allow all debt to be priced in the old dollars the only debt that must be would be the government debt. It would certainly be fairer to price all old debt in the old dollars, but I would not be surprised if the banks were able to use their substantial influence to swap old debts into the gradually more valuable E Dollar. This is historically what has taken place when there have been failed currencies, and even though the debt agreements may have been made in those currencies the banks attempted, and were often successful in demanding payment in gold. Even the most powerful such as President Thomas Jefferson was subject to such a debt payment. Let me know your thoughts
bwh1214
Business Insider and Electronic dollars?
What are you thinking?
Good reply. I really never saw as good a summation regarding the Electronic money.
I know Jim Willie has put stuff out on multiple websites about a replacement currency. I think your understanding makes as much or more sense. You cover the angles that often stick out.
I agree that the Black Market sector is the 700 pound guerrilla in the room.
Also can't fight the trend. The US big Brother wants to track citizens more than rich or privileged Elites. They want the tax, need the Tax.
Not sure how to position ourselves if there is a more valuable E-dollar... big mortgage or small.
Old US movies... "we want 100 gold Sovereigns". Clearly those in crime or power asked for gold.
TeethVillage88s
Free money will never end, Period!
It Can't!
You think critically, you read, you remember, you have clear definitions... So you will drive me nuts at some point.
I think the way to proceed is to ask what works. You cover this ground pretty well. Science helps point the way for engineers. Engineers and research people dont operate in the realm of science. Thinkers have to live in the possible, or what might be next.
Free money can not end. True. There is no way back.
But how are they going to screw us next. Like stage language? They are going to screw us.
Interesting question.
Short on time right now. Let's revisit your question on some other thread.
Erm,
They didn't kick the can off the cliff. They saved that, there's a deposit in some states.
It was us they kicked off the cliff.
Or should I amend that to USA to follow?
I disagree with Schiff when he says the US economy is more screwed up than ever. There really is no economy anymore, just 'markets' if you can call them that anymore with a few people keeping that up with piles of new debt. That's not an economy, that's a shitweed.
He was on that student loan documentary Ivory Tower pointing out the huge elephant in the room. There is a robust economy going but like you said it's being fueled by debt.
ending qe and raising rates a tad may be a long term gold suppression play if theyre running out of steam in the paper games
He's missing the point.
It was predicted even before the crisis.
Once you solve your problems by printing, you start thinking it's the magic bullet for everything.
The Germans knew it all along.
It's like gold fever for politicians...
Next stop wll be hyperinflation. Maybe tomorrow maybe in 7 years from now.
I say, let's meet in the middle.
And it's global...
My god... We'll live through a historic even everybody will want to forget as soon as possible...
Yea but at least zee Germans only did it to build up their war machine for attempt at total world domination....oh wait.....
And everybody hated the bankers so much, they where all send to permanent vacation centers....
Who ever said that history doesn't repeat...
It would seem they let the bankers go and killed the peasants instead. 6-8 million bankers is a lot of bankers.
SheepDog-One,
The German Mark was a local currency.
However,
1) Dollar is the Global Reserve Currency
2) There aren't that many 'dollar notes' in circulation
You don't need dollar notes to sell dollars in the currency pits, nicht wahr?
Currency pits (financial innovation) benefits, either way (inflation or deflation). Some speculators will do very well.
But, nobody else in the real economy will. Most are suffering; and declining. However, inflation (bogus wealth creation by monetization) is rampant on the paper market.
War reparation payments and war debt caused the German mark to hyperinflate.
GOSPLAN HERO
Did you mean that the Germans were living beyond their means so they had to.... travel outside of its boarders?
I am shocked!
Travel, WTF. Pardon my french. But you misspelled Borders. And do you mean got outside financing, Stole Land, Invaded other countries, used slave labor, seized agriculture and food commodities.... well damn what did you mean?
Seems the Germans were screwed by repatriations, the Treaty of Versailles, they didn't really have the use of Fiat...
I guess that is what you meant. Germany didn't have Fiat to recover from WWI.
I was agreeing with GOSPLAN HERO comment that “War payments and war debt (spending more than they could produce to invade others) caused the German mark to hyperinflate.
BTW, thanks to point out the misspelling.
Keep in mind, English is a second language.
No, war reparations and debt caused the German goernment to hyperinflate the mark. It didn't just blow up on its own. People made decisions.
Nobody ever talks about the post WWI revolutionary times in Germany. Socialism and even communism were very much in the mix, especially in the ministries where heads at the top rolled often.
That sounds exactly correct.
Erin Bashar Tyrone card. For free shopping at Wal Mart.
They are able to connect the dots....And it's equals collapse. .......
The shit part is all we can really do is sit and wait for it.
Saw Schiff for the first time in a while on Fox the other day with Asmant and the red-head. Reminiscent of 2006/2007. Portend of things to come? Who knows, but it is curious that Schiff is making the rounds again, quite the same as 7 years ago. Only one missing (as yet) is Mike Norman. Used to like watching those two go at it...
Mike Norman, LOL. I think that dude had a psychotic break after he was proven wrong for laughing at Schiff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HJ54RRB7OU
Everyone on the panel laughed at him and some in a rude mocking manner. So glsd they all ended up with egg on their faces.
Yeah, but Norman turned into supertroll over it. It was kinda sad, in a really hilarious sort of way.
I kinda enjoyed how Sciff slapped Art Laffer around who insisted on betting Schiff over their argument.
they are scared to death of the potential ramifications. these guys are a bunch of closet technicians:
1. taper tantrum - bernanke hints of ending QE, raising rates last may, market moves against them. solution = march a few hawks out & tell everyone it aint so
2. this last blow-down. ZH highlighted last week bullard calling the top in the market when he discussed the "normalization" of interest rates. dow sells off 1500 points, S&P 500 takes out the 50 & 200 day MAs. solution = march the same guy out there & lay the ground work for QE4.
schiff was absolutely right today when he said QE isn't working and thats why they have to keep doing it. i have no clue how to hold a conversation with those who defend this insanity: 200k jobs a month is now the high-bar? bush got destroyed by the media for anything below 300k. obama's double the national debt from $9 trillion to $18 trillion and increased the # of people on food stamps by over 50%, wealth inequality increased to its highest spread EVER in a 5 year stretch, black unemployment up a full 2%. if this is a "successful economic recovery" id hate to see what failure would have looked like.
balance sheet recovery. nothing more, nothing less. druck was 100% dead on that IBM is = to what these bozos have done to the U.S. economy.
i have no clue how to hold a conversation with those who defend this insanity.
I agree.
I believe it's because people on the left and right politically have determined it's simply better to continue with the financial media lies on the economy rather than address the real financial issues facing this country.
During the Depression interest rates were never held this low for this long. That says it all as the recovery is just not sustainable without a continued support of QE and lower interest rates.
What a pile of elephant excrement.
So, Santelli and Schiff both are now in the camp that QE is good for the economy?
i think its just good for their handlers..
Did you listen to the same clip that I listened to, or are you commenting without listening? They are both against more QE.
Neither of them said QE is good for the economy, they said QE is all the Fed can do.
I swear he just makes things up.
My ex-future wife non-girlfriend landlord does that. Kinda annoying.
I'll say, "I like broccoli and onions."
Six months later she'll laughingly tell her friends, in my presence, that I won't eat broccoli with onions.
I'm thinking that living in bizarro-world takes a bit of getting used to, but I have a head start.
She may need a hearing aid. That's usually what's up, when people make those sorts of mistakes in their personal lives.
or they are passive sociopaths, a lot of people actually are
they always remember things "their way" that's either to their benefit or conforms to their self-centered views, or see and hear things the way they want to, and are totally convinced their version is correct.
I have family members like that, they would say things like "remember how much money I paid to raise my kid, how much school fees cost me?", right in front of other family members who actually know for a fact it was her ex-husband who paid all the big-ticket costs for their child, including school fees.
No, Schiff et al are not in the camp of QE is good. You are not paying attention. What Schiff has always said is QE needs to A) Not be used and B) if used, end it asap. Why? It inhibits proper restructuring and whatever "high" the market gets from it, the withdrawls will be much worse than if you would had taken the pain in the beginning.
You can't be too harsh on anyone with wide misses on forecasting QE outcomes because every government metric taken is essentially a lie. If it's not a lie it's a change to the gdp calculation for instance to obviscate. So who knows for sure when everyone is not telling the truth about the underlying economy.
Nearly every company out in the public space today is buying back their stock and borrowing against their company in order to mask their weak earnings reports. When was the last time you really trusted an earnings report since QE started especially under this current administration who is willing to lie and lie and lie again about nearly anything?
How come these "so called" experts never seem to tell us anything we don't already know? Of course there's going to be QE?. It will only stop when the whole system crashes and burns and we have a reset. And yes, it will be ugly and probably bloody.
It's on the MSM. I bet Schiff and Santelli know a bit more than they talked about there, but if they got ahead of the curve, they'd not be allowed on the air again.
The Fed has never exited any rate hike cycles successfully. Every cycle of rate hikes have been a disaster. They are going to hike rates this time and they know it. If they do they blow the whole thing up.
Got to admit, the boyz were pretty clever installing an elderly grandma at the Fed....and next comes the White House....specially effective with all that war on women shit going around. This is the defensive plan. You are not supposed to notice.
She'd get strung up just as fast as Bernanke would have if it came down to it. You'd just need to put a big sign in front of the lamp post saying "DANGER! DO NOT LOOK UP THE SKIRT"
rainman - she might be aged - but she ain't no granny. real liberal. no kids. no kids means no grandkids. i know you rainmen aren't real clear on some reality points. it is a big point. no kids. she wanted here career first.
it is a big deal. she ain't nobody was gonna be doing nappies and service to others.
Major DOW component shits the earnings bed.....DOW and all indexes close comfortably green anyway. The whole rotten mess in a nutshell.
IBM, UBM, we all BM, they BM.
They will delist IMB and insert some app maker or a turd polishing company which will reach a market cap of a quinttrillion booger bucks by friday.
what The Fed clearly does not understand, Schiff blasts, is that "you cannot end quantitative easing without plunging the US into a severe recession."
malarkey
and ha ha ... immediately contradicts his own point -
Schiff believes they know that and that is why QE4 is coming simply "because it hasn't worked and they can't admit it's been a dismal failure."
"hasn't worked" ... "dismal failure" ...
yet ending it will plunge US into severe recession?
i'll give you a clue ... we're at onset of another recession ... QE or not
I don't see when we ever left the last recession, and are actually just in a papered over depression.
Bingo.
You can't QE a ponzi scheme. Eventually, folks will want their money.
Like now. Where's my fuckin money!
You callin the Fed a liar?
The sheeple would rather turn a blind eye to QE (even though the educated among them know that it benefits the wealthy only) as the alternative for them is simply too horrific and utterly western world society shattering to bare the thought of it. QE only works for the elite however the illusion of wealth has become good enough gospel for the rest. It gives the illusion of a working mechanism: the illusion of faith.. and that is all that matters.
For the masses it has become a case of excepting being plowed by the devil you know with a condom rather than being dry ass raped by a raging gorilla with a forocious case of ebola.
There is no contradiction in what he said. He means that QE hasn't worked as a cure, but rather as a painkiller. You can't keep using morphine forever, and when you stop, the symptoms will come raging back stronger than ever. The doctors of the economy (the fed) can't admit that the cancer has spread. The morphine has cured nothing, and that's why they must keep administering morphine, so that they can pretend that the patient is healthier and so they can save face just a little while longer.
It still has a shot as an overdose.
Bell's 2 hearted,
QE (free money) has NOT been a failure.... For the people that get that money (such as student loans to keep teachers employed).
However,
We could have a discussion on Why the Real economy is not beneficiating.
Correct. QE went to the people planned and the bankers did not plan for recovery of the economy, manufacturing, strength of exports in the US,... in fact the Labor cost of the peasants clearly meant that off shoring, out sourcing, and establishing corporate head quarters in low cost jurisdictions would continue apace.
Bankers don't fight the trend.
Why produce in USA??? In deed!!!!
You're probably correct. There may not necessarily be a recession because of the ending of QE. On the contrary, it would be beneficial and it seems Yellen has, at least, partially suspended QE, judging by falling oil prices. QE is coming back, however, once the election is over. I'm certain of that. The powers that be in Washington and Wall Street demand it. Ultimately, it will lead, not merely to recession, but to depression.
Wait, you are quoting the man who has been 100% wrong for over FIVE YEARS! What are you kidding? After having railed against QE, WRONG, it now is going to hurt to stop? Really? This site losses credibilty by posting ranting idiots.
i'm here for the free hors d'ouvres ...
I like the buffet
"After having railed against QE, WRONG, it now is going to hurt to stop? Really? This site losses credibilty by posting ranting idiots."
If ending QE won't hurt, then why don't they?
They have no choice but to end (supply/liquidity issues)
and the "hurt" will be there ... IBM hit a wall in september ... and that had nothing to do with ebola, QE, whatever
Not that it will do any good probably...
But MSM Needs to publish who owns all the Shit in the USA and where all the money from TARP & QE went.
Foreign Ownership is an Issue here.
http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/international/intinv/iip_glance.htm
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/ROWFDNQ027S (Foreign Direct Investment $3.2 Trillion)
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/GPDI (Private Domestic Investment $2.8 Trillion) US Domestic Investment is less than Foreign Investment... clearly the gaming by the wealthy leads to loss of US Assets, $60 Trillion in Debt, and $210 Trillion in Liabilities.!!!
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/FDHBFIN
Federal Debt Held by Foreign & International Investors
2014:Q2: 6,013.2 Billions of Dollars (+ see more)
Quarterly, End of Period, Not Seasonally Adjusted, FDHBFIN,
I personally believe that it will effect the market but my question is why would anyone listen to the two guys who have been so wrong for so long. Makes me reconsider my whole premise on why it will be negative to end QE.
meat trapper is right. they can not end qe. can not. the problem for the rest of us, someone like myself, i can not invest in stocks because i do not believe in that as an investment. (for me - investing in stocks means committing to be an owner in that corporation. i would have to believe in the profit model long term. and approve of it morally. for example - do i believe in face book? no. do i like it's implications? no. do i really believe it is worth what it claims? no. do i believe in apple computers? no. i do not like how they offshore the slave work to keep it free. do i believe in monsanto? no. i do not like GMO products. etc.)
so - i have my money in cash. and they DO intentionally penalize me for it.
do i believe in PM's? yes. but they continue to smash the price.
the latest QE is drop in gas prices at the pump for us consumers. the rest of the world is getting crushed, but the US consumer is ramping up for fattening time (we need fatter, guess we do), football season, thanksgiving and that glorious display of gluttony known as 'christmas'.
see today's news about the US manipulating brent prices. oh - just another conspiracy theory. they would never do that.
What a doofus, he will be wrong if the economy recovers without QE. You can't claim the guy is wrong when QE is still an ongoing thing. That's like saying a speeding car with no brakes or steering won't hit the brick wall down the road because it hasn't got there yet...How do you people function day to day, with such piss poor reasoning abilities?
Attention everyone. Beware of flying pigs.
Why are you printing five years in CAPITALS?? Do you really think five years is such a long time?
Just because the Titanic hasn't hit the iceberg yet, doesn't mean the ship is on the right course.
I am not sure who exactly is losing credibility here...
Hint: Not Schiff and not ZH...
Bernoulli the last time I looked we listen, read and follow different people to make money. Some I suppose do it to rant against the government, the Fed or the banks but that seems pointlesss to me. If anyone had listened to S or S they would not have to worry about maybe hitting an iceberg sometime in the future because they would have sunk to the bottom years ago. There is an old saying that the market can be irrational longer than you can be solvent. With S & S it would be more akin to suicde.
gall next time listen for comprehension not just infotainment...that is not what was said
A messy exit is a given, as fiat dissemination is the Nemesis of the real economy that is constrained by peak cheap energy and also by peak cheap fiat; now mirror opposites, battling leviathans, like Charybdis and Scylla, with humanity's nuts caught in the detroit to be crushed like a symphony of joy.
Ode to Beethoven's IXth which is Europe's swan song!
And Jefferson's epitaph!
We need a new paradigm, and its not market driven, as the market is a given, a haremised goose that laid the "virtual" golden egg for the Oligarchs not for the others; the 99%. Bonfire of vanities which will go badaboom.
Today's market moved just exactly to arrest downward momentum on the McClellan charts. Nice work, Janet. She thinks she can do it, or maybe she just thinks she has to try.
This is the New World Economic Order, and the old rules don't apply, so maybe she can. Should be entertaining to watch anyway, if only I was at a safe distance it would be even more so.
Love Santelli, but Schiff is wrong, any 'severe' recession won't be from QE withdrawal, though we could see a severe market recession, aka correction, much needed, with little immediate impact on middle income Americans, only half of which own equities.
Not directly.. you're right, IMO. The psychological implications that generate the recession will follow the market down. It's not the end of QE that's the problem.. it's how people will deal with the result of the end of QE that is the problem.
Thoughtful reply, though it's possible the main difference will be a need for POMO algos to trade at a time other than 10:15 to 11:00 Mon - Thurs :)
Depends on if they can beat psychology..
Starting with the first toxic asset that a bank can't sell to the Fed for a little mad money to play a hunch in the stock market.
phooey
You have little comprehension of these types of market conditions. Please stand clear of them for your own good.
Given they produced no real improvement with their schemes, how could stopping it cause a "severe" recession? I'm no fan of the Fed, but that doesn't mean the world is solely in their hands, the thought that it is, apparently their new self-imposed mandate, remains our largest problem, IMO.
(By the way, I'm 100% in cash at the end of every trading day, and am up 18% month-to-date, but I'll "stand clear" going forward so market pros like you can have more room to work)
QE and massive monetary stimulus from global central banks is the only reason the Dow is not under 10K. Is it a coincidence that this recent market downturn stopped and began to retrace as Bullard and others began speaking of QE4 or lengthening the QE3 commitment? Is it a coincidence that every market downturn is met by mentioning more QE from Europe, Japan or in the US? Make no mistake because this market is entirely QE driven.
The job market or economy has not improved and that's where the dichotomy exists with respect to the equity markets.
Actually, I agree with you. Its the best thing that could happen. Taking away something from already nothing is still nothing. The stock/bond market would correct, but, I'm not convinced that the world ends. For sure prices of all assets will fall. Some people would lose jobs and i would argue that they are in jobs that are unproductive anyways. Putting it another way, if you are doing something that benefits the lives and economic welfare of others - you'll be fine. So....assets change hands from the over leveraged speculators and we move on. Prices falling - always a silver lining to a recession. Cause right now - EVERYTHING - is over priced relative to income - especially assets. Housing, productive farmland, autos, education (holy shit that is overpriced), and so a correction would be healthy and would irradicate the malfeasance of bad decisions.
Want a return to normalcy? End QE......not only end it, but, reverse the last 3 years. Kill ZIRP the most asinine monetary policy EVER, and bring back savings and investment to the market.....instead of propping up a zombie economy.
You're right, they've mucked up everything, a point made weekly on these pages, but if they ever left us alone, god help us. I believe Santelli himself expressed skepticism at some of his guest's points, but it seems many paint-by-numbers ZH-ers give robotic reponses that have nothing to do with a close reading of any particular comment.
There's no question (with IBM as partial proof) that the Fed is responsible for 80%+ of recent market gains, but probably less than 20% of our job growth, however paltry. As a trader, each morning I've had to check the Treasury Operations Schedule the Fed posts regarding QE, given on days when it was $2 Billion or more any short sale during POMO operations (10 - 11 am) would get tossed back in your face in the form of ramp, normally starting from a low made at 10:15 after a shitty economic report. The fact that today, tomorrow and Thurs this week involve nearly $4 Billion in remaining QE was certainly a reason for market gains today, and could hold off revisiting recent lows, at least until after lunchtime.
Few could argue QE's impact on markets -- Christ, many in the Fed admit financial assest are the sole benefactor -- but fear-mongering about recessions only feeds their dovey little heads with doubt about ending a noneffective program. Madness.
I am enjoying your arrogance.
You claim that QE was nonAFFECTive?
(To clarify the terms an AFFECT is that which will impose an influence upon, whereas, and EFFECT, is the results of an undertaken action.)
QE AFFECTED the Markets quite well and according to their plan. While the RHETORIC stated that it was to be employed in order to boost the economy the desired EFFECT was transfer funds to bolster the reserves of the many INSOLVENT BANKS.
So the Bamks have sold their NON PERFORMING MORTGAGES (Mortgage Backed Securities) and their UNDERPERFORMING USTs (due to fictitiously supressed interest rates) to the Federal Reserve Bank, that of which the Balance Sheet has ballooned.
Of course when the Federal Reserve STOPS PURCHASING the MBS and USTs then the prices are depressed due to LACK OF DEMAND.
This LACK OF DEMAND for MORTGAGES causes the value of every other Mortgage to decrease because of a GROWING SUPPLY.
The EFFECT will be DECLINING REAL ESTATE PRICES. Furthermore UST yields will have to rise at some point which WILL ADD TO THE DECLINE IN REAL ESTATE PRICES.
What does that do to the Real Estate industry? What does that do to the Construction Industry? What does that do to NEW HOME STARTS?
And you, along with your TROLL BUDDY, write about PERCEPTION being the cause..rather than the EFFECT of the action?
Image over substance, eh?
Another narcissistic, hedonistic psychopath posting here as someone with a clue...to paint a picture, that has no basis in reality.
Life is reality driven and not perception driven. And your SHOW is about to end.
You will deserve everything that is coming to you.
Bring out the guillotines.
LOL!
Gentlemen, it looks like you are going to have to go through what you postponed since 2008 in the end anyway...
You had 6 years to reposition yourselves. If you haven't, because you were too busy trying to profit, then you missed the ball.
So, now they cry, because they think the punchbowl is gonna be taken away, and they aren't done skimming yet.
Some are born ethical , others have ethics thrust upon them
See
https://www.academia.edu/8871698/Ebola_and_Money