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Vatican Blesses Porsche, Blocks Plebs From Sistine Chapel
For the first time in the 600(or so)-year history of Michelangelo's masterpiece, Pope Francis has decided to rent out the Sistine Chapel for an $8000-per-head concert organized by Porsche. What makes this unprecedented action even more 'interesting' is the fact that The Vatican - in all its omnipotent wisdom - also made an announcement that it will be limiting the number of vistors (read 'common folk') allowed inside the chapel and as IBTimes reports, demanding vistors must be silent and cannot take photographs. So much for Pope Francis' "poor Church of the poor."
Pope Francis has revealed that the Vatican will rent out the Sistine Chapel for a corporate event for the first
time in its 600-year history.
Porsche will hire the revered chapel, which is covered in Michelangelo's stunning frescoes, and put on a private concert for 40 lucky – and high paying – guests. The concert, which takes place on Saturday, will be one stop on an exclusive tour of Rome organised by the car brand.
The Vatican has not divulged how much it will earn from the event, but the five-day tour of Italy's capital, arranged by the Porsche Travel Club, costs up to €5,000 a head, meaning an overall intake of €200,000, reported The Telegraph.
The concert will be performed by a choir from the Accademia di Santa Cecilia in Rome, which traces its origins back to the 16th century. Participants will then sit down to a meal in the midst of the Vatican Museum, "surrounded by masterpieces by world-famous artists such as Michelangelo and Raphael".
"It's a one-off event and a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity," a spokeswoman for the Porsche Travel Club told The Telegraph. "It will be the highlight of the trip."
Proceeds from the event will go to charities working with the poor and homeless.
But the unprecedented news has been accompanied by an announcement that the Vatican will limit the number of visitors allowed inside the chapel, where visitors must be silent and cannot take photographs, to six million a year, amid fears that the frescoes are being damaged by the breath and sweat of so many tourists.
The Sistine Chapel receives 25,000 visitors a day and its primary function is to be the site of the Papal conclave, the process by which a new Pope is selected.
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Inequality, Schminequality...
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So not only are corporations people, they have a soul to save?
Is the PopeMobile a Porsche?
This Pope is the spiritual equivalent of a dumpster fire.
"demanding vistors must be silent and cannot take photographs"
BUT, if you pay $---,---, then you can ask for the VIP tour package where you can roam the entire chapel, plus take a picture with Pope Franky side by side.
Why the discount?
Idiots who can afford to pay $8,000 a head have no problem paying $80,000
Guys, I'm really struggling with my econ assignment - I know a lot of you guys are pretty clued up on the economy so I wonder if you can help me out? The topic is "Advanced Economic Planning" and the question is as follows:
You have just been appointed as the new Chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank. The economy is recovering from a recent stock market crash and inflation has been ranging from 3-4%, substantially below your target rate of 6%. Consumer spending has been consistently poor, and economic confidence is at an all time low. Name three courses of action you would take. Justify your answer.
Any ideas?
1. Cut taxes.
2. Reduce government spending.
3. END THE FUCKING FED
QEternity
The catholic church is a pedophile loving criminal cabal.
http://bishop-accountability.org/priestdb/PriestDBbylastName-A.html
1) Crtl-P
2) Propaganda
3) Eliminate walking liabilities
Isn't making money the purpose of this 'religion' anyway?
Red or purple sashs? Jesus' was all into sashes
Of course not. The purpose is to re-establish man's broken relationship with GOD, provide a path for salvation, and save souls. The tempation of money is the sin of men, not the religion.
Isn't making money the purpose of this 'religion' anyway?
The Catholic church is satanic. Read the new testament. It's all right there.
why not point out chapter and verse, GD?
1 Timothy 4: 1 - 3
1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.
I must be missing something here....is that talking about the Church? No.
Fish Gone Bad.
The problem with databases like the one you've linked to is that there's no way to ascertain how many on that "accused" list have been falsely accused by money-grubbing opportunists who are jumping on the fuck-Catholicism bandwagon after a few high profile cases hit the media. The stories of 40-year old men who suddenly and absurdly "remember" that they were molested when they were 5 are particularly appalling.
You notice that whenver there's a conviction or an outright admission, the Priest is ejected from the Priesthood. Does this not give one the sense that the Church and its clergy understands what Godly conduct should look like and takes action to police their own when these creeps are found?
This "bishop-accountability" bullshit is largely MSM scaremongering designed to distract you from the fact that these cases are the roundoff error from the sum of thousands of Priests who are not molesting children.
And the secret club of the gesuits are criminals that stop at nothing to control countries or kill people . Read all in the book " Secret terrorists " by Bill Hughes .
Here it is in Pdf file : http://abundanthope.net/pages/Books_-_eBooks_27/The-Secret-Terrorists-Pd...
A super majority of the voting population would have no idea how to survive if these 3 logical actions were taken. This is why it will never happen.
Yes, I wonder if the Black Jesuit will give a "Porsche-n" of all their stolen wealth back to the peasant-slaves?
MDB, you gonna split the $1M Bonus, if we give you the "right" answer?
Are you paying in Cash, check or BTC?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-17/friday-humor-forget-qe4-present...
1. Open the discount window and loan myself $1 trillion at 0% interest.
2. Open the discount window and loan my wife $1 trillion at 0% interest.
3. Open the discount window and loan my son $1 trillion at 0$ interest.
Why would anyone have a target of 6% inflation? That's my initial reaction. I would believe the 3-4% inflation is already causing consumer spending to be poor and anyone clued in knowing the central bank is targeting 6% would ordinarily think a 6% inflation target is the wrong solution. Therefore people will and have cut their spending in anticipation of a poor economy. That's why economic confidence is low.
Cutting taxes and cutting federal government spending at the same time are a no brainer but some of your more liberal professors may not buy in to this plan because it doesn't fit their mantra. Third course of action would be to reduce in some form or another government regulations on new business formation.
Went yard on that shot MDB.
Love it!
pods
MBD!! I thought you were junked and gone for ever!
1. Cut taxes.
2. Reduce the size of government.
3. Cut government spending.
"demanding vistors must be silent and cannot take photographs"
apparently you heathen have never been there.
you've never been able to take photographs at the Vatican. they damage the frescoes. they are old as fuck and the perpertual thermal conduction isn't doing them any favors.
this idiotic post is taking an engineering problem and turning it into social commentary. fail.
$8000 bucks a head ISN"T a social commentary? You, sir, are a moron.
$8000 bucks is a pittance in my neck of the woods, a token contribution for privileged access, not much different than the weekly alms a church collects from parishioners. If you can't see that, well, look for the moron in a mirror cuz that's where you'll find him.
Oh, but all such 'engineering concerns' are out the window if you're one of the chosen who can pony up $8,000+ per head to listen to a CHOIR OF VOICES singing and sweating all over the place. Are you freakin' kidding me? So yeah, peasants ruin the frescoes with their filthy breath and sweat. But if you're the type of insider who drives a Porsche and has tons of FRNs to burn....why then your presence is most cordially welcome.
Besides, doesn't the Vatican have like.....I dunno.....$Umpteen Trillions it can use to MAINTAIN/RESTORE these paintings?
This new pope is just like the others....he's just using the Bill Clinton method of populist relations.
engineering concerns aren't out the window, silly. nowhere in the article does it say the Vatican will be limited ONLY TO THOSE WHO CAN PAY $8000 TO ENTER. The limits are for people per year, which WILL improve their longevity and reduce restoration costs. as for their "trillions," have you not been reading ZH articles about the Vatican bank and Monte Paschi? Or italian banks in general? answer the question yourself by reading the archives. all you douchebags always want answers handed to you on a silver platter, god forbid you should have to find them yourselves.
Unless you're making that stupid "where does it end!?" type of argument (first they take our guns... where does it end?! gays getting married... where does it end?!) your hyperbole is unecessary.
WW, you are correct.
However, I suspect that the Vatican will introduce advance ticket sales and then high-cost fastpass tickets for those who didn't pre-book. This seems to be the trend throughout Europe to raise money via historic sites. People will pay, if for nothing else, but to see what man can accomplish when not a serf.
As a practicing Catholic, I think the jury is still out on this pope. Also, as a conservative I'm wondering what he has in store for the church with the sacrament of marriage based on some of his recent statements. For sure, not all popes are of equal strength or standing in leading the church. While I believe his intentions are good, I'm really not sure he is on solid theological ground with some of his ideas. This deal with Porsche is small potatoes for me compared to what he might do in other aspects of the faith.
Perhaps he could bring back the trade in indulgences.
I figure they should count towards GDP -- though one could argue that that's double counting.
Since you are a catholic . Did you know that the previous pope was forced to resign because there was an order to apprehend him for crimes against humanity committed ? Even the new one has been accused of different crimes against Kids . Read alla about at the http://itccs.org
The International Crime of State and Church .
Scroll down and you will find a lot of info also on 300 thousand kids and babies sold by the catholic church for a profit of billions of dollars . So now we know , that the church has sold drugs , weapons , kids , recicled money , stolen kids for satanic sacrifices and was involved in wars and blessed the combatants .....
With a religion like that who needs others ......
Utter nonsense. Resignation wouldn't be enough if he committed those crimes.
Did you know that the previous pope was forced to resign because there was an order to apprehend him for crimes against humanity committed ?
Dude, I'm pretty sure Stephen Harper is still walking around Canada a free man... I'm also pretty sure the Queen of England is still the head of State in Canada, and actually the Queen of Canada...
What exactly is this "Court" where "prosecutions" and "convictions" took place?
In September, 2012, the ITCCS established a legal arm, The International Common Law Court of Justice (ICLCJ), composed of accredited jurists and lawyers from Belgium, England and the United States. in February, 2013, the ICLCJ successfully prosecuted and convicted former Pope Benedict, Joseph Ratzinger, for Crimes against Humanity in Canada, along with Elizabeth Windsor, Queen of England, Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper, and 27 other officials of church and state. (See the link to the court evidence in this case at http://itccs.org) Pope Benedict and senior Vatican Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone both resigned from their offices soon after being prosecuted in this ICLCJ indictment.
http://itccs.org/what-is-itccs/
The ITCC is run by a flake.
http://www.genuinewitty.com/2014/03/23/international-common-law-court-in...
Visit if you can and when yoy feel strong the http://itccs.org
International tribunal for crimes of Church and state . You will find that Ratzinger was forced to resign because he was condemmned by that tribunal for crimes against humanity . Even the new pope is not much chop ...
Buck, arne't you one of those "evangelicals" who think that the Jesuits or Vatican are secretly running things, despite a total lack of evidence that they control dick?
Basically - aren't you an Apocalypse Fetishist?
As Popes go, this guy seems like a breath of fresh air, although he could certainly do more on the kid fucking and the counter-productive doctrine like birth control and married priests, etc.
"Any of you guys call me Francis, and I'll kill ya."
Lighten up, Francis
We'll just call you "cheesepope" then.
His name was Francis Sawyer
Arguing about the good or bad of a pope is like arguing about the length of Father Christmas's beard. Who gives a fuck about some old fart with a funny hat?
Well, why not? The "Church" is the trustee of the earth until Jesus returns. Unfortunately, Jesus did not sign the Trust document, maybe the Pope signed it for Jesus as legal representative (who appointed them? oops they appointed themselves).
I guess the "Church" can do what ever it wants, including making corporations real people ( a magic act, AKA trickery or slight of hand). That is until Jesus returns.
Personally, I wouldn't want to be one of that black robed bunch if Jesus does return as I remember a quote from somewhere "Vengeance is mine. Thus sayeth The Lord".
IMO, the Church was the original 'Empire'. Catholic = " Including or concerning all humankind; universal"
Thats what the word Catholic Church meant. The Church in charge of all churches. Reminds one of the concept of a Khan, and thus the Great Khan, or Khan of Khans....
In those days (early Middle Ages) the church took 10% of your top line income, and the secular rulers demanded military service..
10% only? I can do that. I pay that much in state taxes alone. I live in the wrong state.
That 10% was a bonus on top of buggering children.
The Church was created by a Roman emperor and is today the Roman Empire. Jesus had nothing to do with it, and certainly did not "leave the Romans in charge of the Earth until he returned".
How much to sleep in the Jesus bedroom?
If you have been to the Vatican and walked through the Sistine Chapel, you may find it to be a once in a lifetime event, as they pack as many people through, like cattle, and it is a horrible experience, other that you come out the other end enlightened with a full understanding what a bunch of true molestors the Catholic Church is. You can start with the boys the priests are so fond of, but Oh the money and power...
And your source for the information on the Catholic Church being full of a bunch of child molesters is... what exactly?
Some MSM talking head?
For me, I'm confident that leaving my child in a room full of Catholic priests is a whole lot safer than leaving him in a room with pretty much any other group of people.
YUP, the lamestream media is out to get ur cult...UBETCHA!
Also, I feel sorry for ur kid.
No you don't. You just thought it would be an f'd up thing to say to me, after failing to come up with a LOGICAL response.
You really need to read this...
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/04/04/straykitty-says-it-and-i-rais...
As riveting as mary sherman's minky. whatever ones religion, his research is astounding.
check out utube, walter veith-secrets in secret societies
then check out his perspective on wiki re: anti-S allegations
You can start here:
http://bishop-accountability.org/priestdb/PriestDBbylastName-A.html
Roundoff error. See above.
So speaketh the paedophile.
Ever notice how casually the Christianity-haters accuse Christians of the worst crime against children conceivable? Just flows right off their tongues, as if they were telling you the weather.
http://bishop-accountability.org/priestdb/PriestDBbylastName-A.html
Catholisism is not Christianity. Read the new testament. It's all right there.
Posting the link three times does not make your point more valid.
Roundly condemned because of the existence of bad Catholics (aka "rounding error")? Welcome to Jewish life on The Hedge! :)
you cannot possibly this stupid.
Was there a verb in that jumble of words?
Stupid.
LOL you got me.
My source is the International Tribunal for crime of Church and State. ITCCS, org
If this article is correct, I am not impressed or surprised.
Papel infallibility (Jesus promise to Peter that the Pope of his Church will not be able to change core teachings of Christ, which has proven correct over the past 2,000 years) only applies to teachings, it does not apply to the actions of flawed men, who can and do make mistakes and sin.
Janis Joplin is the pope?
If she were, she'd rent it to Mercedes Benz.
Is there one institution on this planet that isn't totally corrupt and completely full of shit? What a sad world
Recall, the pope kissed the wall a few months back… now the righteous one is monetizing everything.
More proof the brown god is a sham.
You err sir, it is the "Church" that is the sham.
What is is about Western politicians and Clerics after they visit J'lem?
They come back, and all of a sudden they are so Pro-Israel, as though they'd met the Lord God Almighty himself or had a brain transplant. It seems THAT extreme.
E.g. the Dem and GOP brass, Ted Cruz, Rand Paul... What happens in that place? What gives? Anyone? Alex Jones? Ferris Buhler? Jones? Buhler? Anyone?
I will give you a hint, blonde Russian Transvestites, a Donkey and a Dwarf are involved. Along with a high resolution camera......
Well, it's pretty simple kirk - you see the jews, you see the arabs. You see howeach group lives and you get a pretty basic idea of the situation and understand on whose side it's more worthwhile being on.
To go to Jerusalem and see how the jews and the arabs live and take the side of the jews is akin to going to a concentration camp during world war 2, see how the inmates and the staff live and then side with the camp's management and the guards.
P.S. fuck you Moshe!
Soz, fat finger, dupe.
Kirk2ncc1701
It is remarkably similar to genflecting and kissing the ring of a King, signifying ones future fealty.
The pope is as controlled by the Luciferian Oligarchs as much as any other world leader. So this is no surprise really.
He's at the top of that pyramid.
Another highlight from the Klain resume...
Ebola Czar Ron Klain was Janet Reno's Chief of Staff at the time of Waco.
Ebola Czar Ron Klain Career and History as Told by TIME
In a city where name recognition is synonymous with success, Ron Klain has made a virtue of being unknown. As Attorney General Janet Reno’s chief of staff, he is all but invisible to the public but recognized in Democratic circles as the man to have on your side in a political or legal fight. A rare mix of top-flight lawyer and savvy politician, Klain shepherded the nominations of Reno and Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg through the Senate and steered the omnibus crime bill through the turbulent legislative process.
So, he's a firearm confiscationist AND a Waco cover-up participant. Just the kind of guy that inspires trust.
Dual Citizen? Dual standards?
Nice - he knows how to run a mass murder and cover up.
Klain is the type of guy that as a kid probably got punched in the face and bled out his nose in the aftermath in elementary school fights. These characters then want revenge on the "cool kids" when they grow up so they lick oligarch-thug butthole to gain that semblance of hot shot. But they never realized that bitches opt out and hence render them on the whole irrelevant .
WTF?
Pretty soon we will see billboards inside St Peter's.
Jesus to be carrying cross w/Coca-Cola and Dell logos on newly commissioned ‘Stations of the Cross’ artwork.
There is a lot of advertising space on those pretentious robes the priests wear.
Clearly "Folks" are not donating enough, and not putting enough into the Collection Basket during Mass.
p.s. When did the Mask slip on this Pope? First the old Pope "retires", then it was green light for Homos, and now it's Rent-a-Church. I realize we've had Rent-a-Cleric for a VERY long time, but what's next? Rent-a-Relic? Rent-a-Pope for the Talk Circuit - a la Bill Clinton?
You can rent houses, cars, whores, the Sistine Chapel, the Lincoln Room, politicians and clergy. Everything has a price.
Kinda reminds me of Ted DiBiase
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td9i6-oa4Kw
A Bishop goes to Confession (now "Sacrament of Reconciliation"), and the Pope is the guy in the booth that he must confess to...
The Bishop: Father, forgive me for I have sinned... I have lost ALL my faith in God and in the Church. What shall I do?
The Pope: Do what I do - Fake it.
Mediocre Al Pacino movie. As if that conversation could ever happen.
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
But can a man serve two mistresses?
Ah, but he can have one Wife and one Mistress.
Dual Citizenship is like that.
Guess times are getting hard for Satan.
From what I can tell they seem pretty darn good.
If they can jump into the corporate game then perhaps they should pay taxes too.
Jesus didn't separate the paying customers from the riff-raff.
Hey Vatican : WWJD?
The Vatican is in the business to make people believe in JC. Like every other good promoter, they don't believe their own propaganda.
This is just one more clue in the long history of clues the Church is dropping throughout history.
It's an enterprise based on a bogus premise!
Cant we day the same about government?
Yes, where have you been?
In a nutshell:
Parties "campaign" to get elected. Campaigns are means to distribute propaganda.
The party heads are hand picked and groomed by the elite for the job of puppets on the elite's string.
Church has made peace with government or vice versa because they are going after one and the same and have formed this symbiotic relationship
It's all about control over power, people and assets.
Banzai
You need to show us the new Porsche Pope-mobile. He can cover a lot more catholics in one of those and those chicky nuns love to get
picked up for a ride. Sister Janet gets real wild riding along at 240 kph
Goodbye Catholic church..........NWO has finally absorbed thee.
Actually it happened around Vatican 2, but ........ I get the sentiment.
It's been an onoing process since Vatican ll. You might enjoy a novel written by Malachi Martin, a Vatican insider during the sixties entitled "Windswept House". He described it as "faction". Chilling read. That novel explains all, right up to this news today. His timing for the demise was not off by much.
You got that assbackards.
Successful capitalist winners can't be expected to just give portions of their hard earned wealth to the needy anymore; that's just so 20th Century!
Today, they demand something in return; in this case, a party in an old church.
Flash photos weren't allowed in the Sistine Chapel when I was there about three years ago. I remember nothing but a throng of fat tourists and endless camera flashes while the employees yelled, "No flash photos!!!" Maybe they just gave up on the idea that common people are capable of following even the most basic of instructions?
See the Vatican if you want to know what tens of billions of dollars actually looks like. It's pretty stunning and if I were catholic, I'd have a hard time not being totally enraged by it.
When Jesus was kicking around it was reported he threw over the tables and chased the money lenders away from the church.
Everything the Catholic Church does is a direct contradiction to what Jesus supposedly taught, including calling their workers "Father" and "Reverend".
I don't know how they ever managed to carve out a state for themselves. Probably because of all the money they stole from widows and orphans.
This is a bit of a straw man argument. Jesus threw the moneychangers out of the synagogue because they were scalping money from the poor who were there to give what little they had as sacrifice to God. He rightly threw the scaplers out, as they were taking advantage of the disadvantaged.
You will search in vain for a comparison here in this story, where they're simply reserving the space for a private event. No poor people are getting ripped off. The syllogism is invalid.
By reserving space in this event to only those who can afford $8000 bucks a head the church is showing partiality, try reading James 2:3
http://biblehub.com/james/2-3.htm
OK, I'll bite.
James 2, starting with verse 2, reads: (KJV) For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; 3And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: 4Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
This does not mean Jesus wants the Vatican to outlaw private parties. A slippery slope? Maybe. But I see nothing definitively evil in allowing this Porsche event for a few hours. It's not as if the Church is going to stop ministering to the poor, is it?
The moneychangers were a direct threat to Rome.
"Jesus" (ficticious character) had it out with the moneychangers (convenient) but dined with the tax collector (even more convenient).
Do yourself a favor
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/
In what way were the moneychangers a direct threat to Rome?
The temple was being used as a marketplace and was selling food for Passover. Jews could not use roman coins in the temple and therefore had to have their money changed to shekels...they were being ripped off on the exchange rate. Had nothing to do with the poor being there to make a sacrifice to God.
What do you believe they brought money to the synagogue to buy again? Was it not practice to purchase the best lamb to be sacrificed?
Inverted & bent crosses along with freemasonry symbols tell a tale.
Sorry Tyler, I'm not with you on this one.
I don't think it's remarkable that a group of high-dollar paying guests are being treated at the Vatican to a special concert and dinner, any more than I would if they were treated to a special concert and dinner at my church in podunk Arkansas. The church would be glad for the business; and, more importantly, some of the guests might be turned-on to Christianity. Christ said it was easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a wealthy man to enter His father's kingdom. Food for thought.
Neither do I think it's a bad thing to limit the numbers of profanity-speaking, greasy-fingered, unappreciative tourists who pass through the Sistine Chapel every day wearing the worst apparel money can buy. I was so seriously appalled by the behavior of tourists when I went through the first time that it would have made sense to me for them to close it off to the public completely.
Are you still calling numbers on bingo night?
Vatican, largest holder of equities in the world, probably the richest non government entity in the world.
and the biggest scam perpetrated on humanity.
Close, but no Hell Cigar. The biggest scam perpetrated on humanity starts our with: "In the beginning..."
If they buy that, they'll buy ANYTHING.
... and right on cue, here come the Christianity bashers.
Fuck ur little cult
Charming.
Once you're forced to worship the state, you'll take notice of the frog in the pot and how it's being implemented. Lesbo mayor anyone?
Matters not your belief, your choice is being removed.
Not Christianity bashers. Roman Catholic Church bashers. By their works ye shall know them.
funny - most times, it seems that the people proclaiming that the Catholics aren't Christian are Evangelicals and Zionists who spend virtually zero time on the NT.
Back in grammar school, I recall the theology class and masses as very Jesus-centric. Meanwhile John Hagee says Christ was not the Messiah.
You'll forgive me if I posit that you're not ncessarily correct on this matter.
In any event - it's everybody's God.
I did not say that Catholics are not Christians, but that those who bash the Roman Catholic Church are not bashing all Christians. It's a matter of sets and subsets. The set of Roman Catholics may be mostly a subset of Christians, but it is not completely a subset, because some Roman Catholics are not Christians if you measure Christianity by Jesus's words: "by their works ye shall know them". Certainly, if you measure Christianity this way, then the Conquistadors were not Christians, nor were any who burned people as witches, or burned books, or backed the Nazis, or put people in jail for saying they thought the world might be round and the Earth might not be the center of the universe. It's an individual thing, and if the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it. It's a good thing, I think, that by our works they will know us, for we can all do a good work any day we choose to.
You seem to be retreating a bit here.
Were it not for Catholicism, Christianity would not have been transmitted to, and infused within, Western Civ. at all. Therefore an attack against the RCC can be regarded, ipso facto, as an attack against Christianity writ large - in certain contexts, like this one.
If your argument were regarding papal supremacy and its differences between protestantism in this regard, you would have a valid argument. But in the context of sexual predation, the clear intent of the MSM and its elite non-Christian sponsors, whose words of hate have been captured in this thread on ZH, is to convince those unfamiliar with the religion that clergymen, irrespective of denomination, are perverts.
Either you're a sloppy reader or an uninformed "Christian". The text I quoted ("In the beginning...") comes from the OT. So, technically, I'm a Judeo and Christian "Skeptic".
Because , if you accept The Premise (in the OT) and if that Premise is compromised or false, then everything else that follows is either compromised or invalid. Logic 101.
But, FWIW, I think that ALL three Middle-Eastern, desert religions of Monotheism (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) are full of it, and utterly man-made. They might be interesting, entertaining, etc., but they are man-made, not "Divine". Sorry, I'm gonna need some serious ID and VETTING, before I accept the Worldviews of semi-literate and smelly goat herders of thousands of years ago. And anyone who does not, needs their head examined. Or they can buy this bridge in NY that I want to sell them. Trekkie meme/metaphor and sarcasm aside, I can make a better case for... "A rogue, exiled or marooned Starship Captain and his Crew having started man's Middle-Eastern religions", than these long-dead goat shaggers, child molesters and wife beaters, who had no qualms about spilling blood, having spoken with God (some Guy in the Sky). I guess, you're siding with said (long dead) desert dwellers? I procalim that the Desert God -- if real, rather then invented -- is either a dumb-ass or is a hypochrite.
Look, there was a time when I too was a devout little sheep, but then I had my own Epiphany, and now cannot view things the way I was taught/programmed as a child and a youth. Sorry. And, unlike the Bishop in the joke above, I can NOT fake it any more -- having eaten of the tree of Knowledge: SCIENCE.
And, looking at the bright side, All my "guilt" is gone, as is my need for these self-proclaimed Middlemen, who claim to represent some "Guy in the Sky", as if they had some Communicator. I can use my own Communicator, or be my own "Guy in the Sky", i.e. "I shall heed my own council" - not the council of an ancient goat herder. And when I snuff it, I shall have blessed Oblivion, and no Deity's ass to kiss for all eternity. That is what I call Eternal Peace. Peace and Enlightenment be with you.
I used to believe as you do, and have changed my mind.
First, you need to understand that the New Testament is, in large part, a correction of the Old. The life of Christ was such a revolutionary event that the leaders of the old ways had him killed. This is where a handful of Christian groups completely miss the point. It is not necessary to believe the the bloody Earth is less than 6000 years old, or the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter is exactly 3 (not Pi), or that there's enough water to literally flood the entire surface of the Earth, or that a man can literally live in the belly of a whale for a month, in order to be a Christian. Those who believe that nonsense are heretics, in my opinion.
Then there's the misconception that Christianity discourages scientific discovery. The truth is that, after a few years of interfering with Galileo and Copernicus, the Church actually got on board, and Church-sponsored scientists have been responsble for more research and development than they are ever given credit for.
I'd recommend reading the books of the New Testament, telling yourself that it's just fictional, if you like. The message that Christ brought was absolutely revolutionary. Quotes like, "The meek will inherit the earth." and, "Blessed are the poor." were radical stuff 2000 years ago. Check it out. Might find something useful in there. And, to paraphrase C.S. Lewis, if Jesus wasn't who He said He was, well, he was a damn good liar, or a madman.
The Church got on board AFTER Columbus discovered the Americas and gold in it, so I don't give the Church much moral credit for its change of stance.
post hoc ergo propter hoc.
Dear Kirk and thatthingcanfly:
Christianity handed down by the true Church of Christ – East and West – the Sees of Constantinople and Rome – is entirely true. And so is the New Testament, the fulfillment of the Torah of the Jews
We Christians cannot prove the historical truth of our faith. But we know it's true, because when you actually live it -- i.e., partake regularly and frequently of Holy Communion and confession -- you see the change in yourself. You achieve a peace you've never known, and you become more human than you ever thought possible.
His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI says he considers it a proof of the truth of Christianity -- however circumstantial -- that the Apostles moved the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.
They did so at a time when they believed their first objective was to bring Jews to Christ. He says it would never have dawned on them to move the sabbath, and would themselves have found the idea abhorrent, if they had not encountered the resurrected Christ on a Sunday. This strikes me as very true.
Another (circumstantial) proof: Christ told the Apostles just before he ascended into heaven to go forth and convert all peoples. Now, two millennia later, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is worshipped in every country on the face of the earth (even North Korea.)
It is preposterous to suggest that a thing that was invented out of whole cloth by – as you say, Kirk – “smelly, illiterate” Middle Easterners – could have survived two weeks, much less two millennia, would impel people die for it (now, as they did then), that poor Palestinian fishermen could have subverted the Roman Empire with the New Testament, a book of strange beauty and power and poetry that is like nothing else ever written, how those same fishermen could have invented a figure like Christ -- True God and True Man – not a demiurge, not a person half God and half man – but a new Creation altogether, how this Book would impart to the world riches too vast to enumerate here, but consider Benedict XVI’s statement that Western democracy rooted as it is in individual rights could not have happened except for the debate that broke out in the early Church councils over the nature of Christ; for when the Church understood that God had become man, man was suddenly understood to be sacred (sacred, not divine.)
I'm sure you'll find none of this persuasive. So be it. We Christians are inured to efforts to debunk our faith.
The Kingdom of Heaven is within, just as Jesus and, earlier, the Buddha, said. This is very hard to argue with, whether you call it Christianity or Buddhism or whatever names others whose works were not written down called it. And surely there must have been many others who "got it", that The Great Spirit, or God, is Love, and that Love does not steal, kill, lie, covet, or hold any addictions (other gods) above Love.
But just like the original tribe, these runner-up copy cats figured out how to spread it and get rich in the process. Not sure what happened to the idiots who came out with the 3rd book based on a child molesting desert prince who turned into a glorified palm reader.
Not sure if you are referring to Joseph Smith or Mohammad. Either way, you're right. And you've finally written something I can agree with.
smith = freemason
The biggest scam is fiat currency printing - and that is not the Vatican or the Catholics.
The second biggest scam is {mono}theism and the idea a book was divinely inspired... ideas which predate the Christian churches by some centuries.
Dilution of money existed before Jewish banks. The Romans have a story or two to tell about it.
But most Roman dilution of money came after Jesus. The Romans were smart enough to try things that seemed to have worked for the people they conquered. They were adaptable.
Pedo Synagog of Satan.
My house will be called a house of prayer, but you are making it a den of robbers.
I visited once.... very comical experience. Loudspeakers bleat out the rules (NO VIDEO. NO FLASH PHOTOS!) in a dozen or so languages as you are herded thru the fancy building surrounded by people taking... video and flash photos...