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Hong Kong Chief: Can't Have Democracy Or The Poor Will Have A Say
Clearly, Leung Chung-Ying, Hong Kong's embattled leader, did not get the Jean-Claude Juncker memo that "when things are bad, you have to lie." As The NY Times reports, Leung - rather stunningly - said overnight that it was unacceptable to allow his successors to be chosen in open elections, in part because doing so would risk giving poorer residents a dominant voice in politics. Instead, rather unsurprisingly, he backed Beijing's position that all candidates to succeed him as chief executive, the top post in the city, must be screened by a "broadly representative" nominating committee appointed by Beijing, and offered several thinly veiled warnings on Monday that it was risky for the protesters to try the patience of the national authorities.
...
Mr. Leung’s blunt remarks reflect a widely held view among the Hong Kong elite that the general public cannot be trusted to govern the city well. His statements appeared likely to draw fresh criticism from the democratic opposition, and to inflame the street struggle over Hong Kong’s political future.
Representatives of his government are scheduled to hold televised talks with student leaders of the protests, who have said that Mr. Leung was defending a political system stacked against ordinary citizens.
Mr. Leung said that if “you look at the meaning of the words ‘broadly representative,’ it’s not numeric representation.”
“You have to take care of all the sectors in Hong Kong as much as you can,” he said, “and if it’s entirely a numbers game and numeric representation, then obviously you would be talking to half of the people in Hong Kong who earn less than $1,800 a month.”
“Then you would end up with that kind of politics and policies,” he continued.
* * *
Finally, we also note, Leung comments on the drivers of the pro-democracy movement...
He also raised again the suspicions of his government and of Beijing that “foreign forces” had played a role in the street protests, although he declined repeatedly to identify those forces or provide any examples.
“I didn’t overhear it in a teahouse, and it’s something that concerns us,” he said. “It’s something that we need to deal with.”
* * *
Mr. Leung offered several thinly veiled warnings on Monday that it was risky for the protesters to try the patience of the national authorities.
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http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-30/smarter-people-get-respectable-...
Cantor:
"Smarter people get that's not actually true. There have to be respectable men and women who run, quite frankly, the system."
And. of course, because running the system is so hard, they get to get rich on the process, and get oto kill whomever they please.
The FSA is rising all over the world. Wonder if we should declare them a threat to national security?
pods
Aristotel was a retard.
Fuck China.
"Just enough to quiet them down. Not enough to make a difference." "I'll have these ni**ers voting Democrat for the next 100 years."
- LBJ
Hey progressives, is this what you want? Really?
"must be screened by a "broadly representative" nominating committee"
Sounds exactly like the Demicans and Republicrats parties. Something about pointing fingers......
"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government just like all the others that have been tried."
Sir Winnie Churchill after sobering up
Democracy is the stupid belief that collective genius can be derived from individual ignorance. It is the theory that the people deserve to get exactly what they want. And good and hard!
H.L. Mencken
"You can't let the poor vote"
Soon comming to a place near you...
Being poor does not mean having higher morals or integrity.
Poor people have as many assholes, percentagewise, as rich folks. Give a poor sod an opportunity and you will think Jamie Dimon was a cool guy.
Jamie Dimon represents the .00001% bankster class. The percentage of assholes in this group is 100.
Yep, the good thing about the poor folk though is they can't hire security and laywers which ups thier ability to be assholes. Usually when you leave their small territory you leave them behind too.
Mr. Leung is correct, morally and practically. Losers will vote like losers. Poor people are stupid.
You realize John D Rockefeller started off poor, right?
Yes, it's true. Robots are now making Depends. God help us.
I'm gonna panic when I see the robot wearing the Depends.
Don't they use fortune cookies for elections in China?
So this guy is honest ( unlike the oligarchs here ) and gets castigated about it?? LOL.
Mr. Leung seems well-suited to the role of CEO of Hong Kong Inc. He is a capitalist in heart, mind and kidneys.
I actually respect people in authority who say what others are afraid to say. Of course....in this case he might not live that long...
What about people that repeat themselves...?
I actually respect people in authority who say what others are afraid to say. Of course....in this case he might not live that long...
One thing about China is that they have historically had particularly bloodthirsty civil wars.
The Big Lychee: http://biglychee.com/?p=12782
...then the general public (average citizen) cannot guarranty it will be safe to travel the streets of Hong Kong.
Capital and talent ignore all the bullshit and go where they are respected.
Same as is ever was.
They're right. As soon as the poor figure out that they can elect socialists who will give them a share of the productive people's earnings, it is all straight down hill from there...
Don't tell Obama! - he'll flood the border with third-world peasants and promise them bread and circus!
Please, there is no need for such measures. All those third-worlders have been born here for quite some time. For example, go have a look at detroit.
And we can't have that! Now can we?
Pitchforks
Guillotines
The latter is the only one that really changes anything.
Honesty is the best policy. Exile the wealthy from the planet. Send them to the pyramids on Q99X2.
Why would anyone want the poor to have a say? They're poor, for God's sake!
They said the same thing about mortgages, that poor people cant have mortgages.
And then the sub prime blew up.
are they unwashed too?
Lol.... I remember stories about a guy alive around 2000 years ago who had a different perspective on the subject.
Not really, Basically if a person is able but unwilling to work, he/she shouldn't eat:
Proverbs 6:6 ESVGo to the ant, O sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise.
Proverbs 19:15 ESVSlothfulness casts into a deep sleep, and an idle person will suffer hunger.
Colossians 3:23 ESVWhatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men,
Proverbs 20:4 ESVThe sluggard does not plow in the autumn; he will seek at harvest and have nothing.
2 Thessalonians 3:10 ESVFor even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.
Ecclesiastes 10:18 ESVThrough sloth the roof sinks in, and through indolence the house leaks.
Proverbs 19:24 ESVThe sluggard buries his hand in the dish and will not even bring it back to his mouth.
For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.’
Proverbs 19:17 ESVWhoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.
Isaiah 10:1-2 ESVWoe to those who decree iniquitous decrees, and the writers who keep writing oppression, to turn aside the needy from justice and to rob the poor of my people of their right, that widows may be their spoil, and that they may make the fatherless their prey!
We could do this all day.
Who made you judge? Cherry-picker.
LOL
Like all religious banter, your BOTH right, so now where do we go?
To hell (let them die in the streets) or the welfare state (hand out whatever is needed to whomever)?
Luke (6:30) has the answer:
Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back.
That's a hard one to counter.
Man I hope your kidding, but Im not sure:)
"The poor ye shall always have with ye..."
I vote for more free shit.
"democracy" == sheeple to be herded. It's the easiest way to keep a lid on things.
WAR IS PEACE,
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY,
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH,
and
DEMOCRACY IS TYRANNY.
Democracy is tyranny. A constitutional republic is not.
You forgot the word "absolute" and conflated the absence of any democracy with a constitutional republic.
Well, done, citizen!
"Democracy", like so many terms, has become perverted to mean "one person, one vote". Yet there are many ways for people to choose their managers that don't include universal suffrage. I understand the need to set the bar low, but we don't have to set it at ground level, or (as the process to fast-track illegals into voting citizens seems ensured to do) entrench it BELOW that. Some combination of income tax paid, years of national service (military/peace corps), and years in the workforce even if minimal tax paid ought to achieve the desired outcome - no votes for people who don't work, and just consume the output of others. You could put a lifetime goal for taxes - e.g. "Once you've paid $100,000 in income tax, you have your vote for life", while others could vote based on a rolling average. So if you work a minimum wage job all your life, pay very little in income tax, when you retire, you'll still get to vote for a few years (the rolling average thing), but once your exemption runs out, no vote for you.
Giving the entire FSA a vote just encourage pols to pander to them, and provide them with enough FS to keep them mollified, while the pols plunder what they want for themselves. The FSA can't put down their Obama-phones, video games, or channel changers long enough to give a flyin', so the pols know they're safe. A more selective voting pool might be much more concerned about what the pols do, and take them task for plunder, endless deficits, porkbarrels, and other chicanery.
How feudal of you.
How nice of you to call me names, and not respond at all to the argument. And the term 'feudal' is not at all appropriate, as there is no lord/serf relationship that is governed by birth. Under my plan, if you're a contributing member of society, you get to vote. If you're not, you don't.
Why don't you stick to spazzing as you are the self-proclaimed king of it?
there is no lord/serf relationship that is governed by birth.
What about Bill Gates' kids, do they get to count their inherited fortunes as part of your minimum guarantee for life-time voting?
I'm not going to vote for you for king, that's for damned sure.
The answer to that, is of course, NO!
BG's kids dont need the States money, they will have Daddy's! Although the above comments need some "refinement", I'm not as far from those sentiments as I once had been! Private charity is OK, give all the food and money you want thru churches, NGO's, etc BUT govt welfare absolutely should have limits and conditions attached! I dont see any moral confliction or societal norms being uprooted by this? Every other element of our collective societal experience has these limits and conditions included, but the welfare state is off limits, no strings attached besides "proof of need", which is in and of itself "open to interpretation"!
Next up in the good ol' USA, minimum savings/checking account balances required to vote.
Giving the FSA a voice is risky. He has a tiny point there. After all , we see what’s happened in merika. But i think his message is one of moar distraction then of substance.
When we will give you democracy, you will like it.
Some ocuntries are freaking out because of low voter turnouts and others are wanting to restrict voter turnout.
All bullshit, all the time.
So the dominant power selects the candidates? TThat seems familiar . . . and of the wrong one is winning we have Diebold.
Neoliberalism run amok
If they think they can supress working folks forever, I have an ABACUS to sell you
although ineloquent he does have a point. the fsa is not a democracy. pols bought and paid for. oh well i dont care im poor
I'm sure about the time that the "poor" stick Mr. Leung on a spit and start turning him slowly over the coals of a fire, like a roast suckling pig, he might change his tune...
Our dear leaders hubris and arrogance are on full display these days. Not even a shred of humility for the lesser off, another " let them eat cake" moment.
LOL, somebody please explain to this guy voting doesn't actually work. It's not going to change anything, but the Great Unwashed get a kick out of it. It's all just harmless-to-the-ruling-class social opium.
Global Gaza. That's the plan.
Let them eat fish balls!
“I didn’t overhear it in a teahouse, and it’s something that concerns us
That damn tea party is fucking everything up for everybody!
Well, I don't know about how the impovershed might affect an election ... but I sure know how the stupid will: see the U.S.
Absolutely true, just look at the socialist thieving entitlement-parasite earnings-redistribution shithole that USA has become due to elections open to the society's grossly over-bred sprawling entitlement-tit-sucking proletariat hordes.
Yes, I guess we should have let those banks fail after all. In addition we should end all subsidies and fat government contracts.
The banks failed because of the MILLIONS of no-down no-income mortgages that were given to the failed scum at the bottom - you one of them ???
Those mortgage failures by the proletariat scum also destroyed the equity values of ALL home owners - ALL the people who took those no-down no-income mortgages should have been executed, along with the corrupt scum who issued them - they are BOTH equally at fault.
Pushed on to them by the failed scum at the top.
What part of hold EVERYONE accountable don't you understand you stupid fuck?
Real consequences for bad behavior at all levels.
That you John Corzine?
go fuck yourself, we have work to do.
My guess would be that SocialismIsCancer is one or more of the following:
A) a bankster or day trader
B) a "private" sector contractor dependent on government contracts
C) on some sort of welfare (an angry geezer, a crappy farmer, in an "opportunity zone" where mommy government waives his taxes or pays his employees, etc)
I am what you are not: successful.
Your envy over other people's success is the fuel that supplies your bitterness over your failure in life and resentment that blames others for your own inadequacy.
Your intellectual inferiority will continue to keep you poor and struggling, while I will always be wealthy and enjoy life to the fullest.
You proletariat socialist parasite living trash are just ants at our picnic :-)
If you're enjoying life to the fullest so much , why are you on here trashing socialist parasites ?
Don't you have something better to do?
My guess is your cock is so soft you just need to get off somehow .
You are the ultimate kind of idiot - you cannot even understand who is really doing you harm, stealing your earnings and suffocating the government with debt, so your 3-neuron brain just blames anyone who "has money", because they have what you do not know how to earn for yourself.
I am on ZH while on one of my yachts, enjoying a chef-cooked lunch break from big-game sport fishing. I have many businesses, and I started from nothing.
You started from nothing and are now even less than what you started from because you have learned nothing, built nothing, earned nothing. I would be surprised if you can even hold down a job.
Get comfortable with your life of nothing because that is all that you will ever have unless you grow a brain and learn how to use it.
So, anybody viewing this later, you'll note how this clown never actually denied his dependence on mommy government. Just another day-trading con man leeching off the productive and fancying himself a genius for it...
DERP DERP DE DERP ... the total amount of support given to the banks is (variously computed as) between $8 T to 24Trillion. The total amount of *ALL* residential mortgages in the USA is a small fraction of that amount.
I guess none of these people got the word that HK is part of the Peoples Republic and complainers will be shot.
Reminds me of a book title that in a way applies to all of us who aren't in the club that rules that world: They thought they were free.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/New_World_Order/TheyThoughtTheyWereFree.html
Relevant Excerpt:
"To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it-please try to believe me-unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, 'regretted,' that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these 'little measures' that no 'patriotic German' could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head. "How is this to be avoided, among ordinary men, even highly educated ordinary men? Frankly, I do not know. I do not see, even now. Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims, Principiis obsta and Finem respice-'Resist the beginnings' and 'Consider the end.' But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings. One must foresee the end clearly and certainly and how is this to be done, by ordinary men or even by extraordinary men? Things might have. And everyone counts on that might.We too cheap to buy Diebold. We too lazy to rig our own elections. We need to keep the poor around to blame for raising taxes and to keep wages low. You buying this, right Joe?
NYT reports...hahahahaha....LMAO.....Fromn the porpoganda machine itself!
http://thebricspost.com/us-has-no-right-to-interfere-in-hongkong-china/#...
Ok Folks, What this "leader" has spoken aloud is simply what nearly all the rest of them think and/or say behind closed doors.
This was as clear a glimpse behind the curtain as we will ever get.
Ponder this and act accordingly.
If you still vote (either becasue you believe in it, or becasue you are still allowed to in your country) vote out all incumbants.
If replacing them doesn't change the way corrurption/oligarchy as usual operates you have established the basis for "refreshing the tree of Liberty with the blood of martyrs and tryrants"
If you cannot/shall not vote, then we can either complain or skip to building a grassroots concensus which will eventually "refresh the tree of Liberty with the blood of martyrs and tryrants"
What are other options?
There is only so far you can go with "opting out of the system" . unless independently; wealthy most of us have to collect a fiat currency paycheck to pay a debt slave mortgage, or at least use fiat curency to buy gas and groceries,
Or, maybe, if you really got your permaculture established and paid off your super insulated off grid residence, and can bicycle everywhere you need to go, make your own shoes from tire treads and animal hides, then maybe you can "opt out". The rest of us? well we seem to be still stuck playing within "the system"
(My wife has taken to saying, "The Amish have is right afterall" (followed by me saying " yup, WTF? I never saw that coming")
Until the End of Fiat, until corporations are disallowed to have a politcal voice; we are all, unfortunately, (to the elite) still just the sheeple.
Some of us just bleat more loudly while being shorn.
Not enough critcal mass to achieve the "3%" needed to turn this over........yet.
but boy do i hope so.
I miss america.
This is due to CHINESE-NESS. Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Mainland. They were around BEFORE ''Democracy'' was invented beteen the Qin and Han Dynasties. Taiwan had decades of strongmen who took thousands to dark prisons and tortured them to death on the SE tip of the island. The only reason Hong Kong is moderately civilised is because the entire British Empire forced the 10 million in Xiang Gang to become modern. Singapore has made gum illegal and canes offenders to this day.
The entire culture is stuck in the year 4,000 BC, except where forced by others to modernise.
Democracy?
Well, George Carlin tells it in one sentence:
“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”Yep, I feel much better now...
Democracy has issues. Aristotle was right. Abuse of majority power by a few skilled at working the masses is an obvious one. What looks like the potential for mob rule almost always in fact is rule by elites under the covers.
That said, rule by a few IS NOT the only option, that's just a mindset perpetrated by those few throughout history who have viewed themselves as candidates for such a role. Minimal governments with an emphasis on local rule (individual, then family, then town, then state, then last and least a Federal servant) can be put in place. Our constitutional Republic was one example. The challenge with such systems is the need for an educated populace that both values self rule, and is willing to put in the annual work beating back attempted encroachments by government at all levels.
All tax is theft but better to have the poor steal than the fucking Communist Party and their cunt 689 (apologies to cunts and to the numerals 6, 8 and 9).
This article and the comments support my argument that no socio-economic system will ever work perfectly because humans are imperfect. So instead of arguing which one is the 'perfect' system - maybe we should instead be arguing which one works best to mitigate the seven deadly sins? Obviously there are drawbacks to a pure democracy and pure capitalism which is why we in the US have a republic and 'regulations'. Out of all the systems that have gone before or are in play now, ours seems to work the best. However, I think we can all agree that our system isn't working at optimal efficiency or effectiveness and there are still a lot of loopholes for folks in our society (rich, poor, and in the middle) to 'game' the system to others' detriment.
Instead of falling prey to the simplistic paradigm of red vs. blue, liberal vs. conservative, or progressive vs. libertarian or whatever the fuck the PTB use to distract us from what's really going on - we should be working together to bring about what seems to be a long overdue 'house cleaning' of our politics and gov't.
So my question is how?
Socialism teamed with Democracy carries the seeds of it's own destruction. It gives the power to the voters to rob via the ballot box, and that always ends the same, eventually.
Hong Kong Chief: Can't Have Democracy Or The Poor Will Have A Say…
Edited By Me!…
The 'poor' will dominate politics if we allowdemocracy says Hong Kong chief.
Example: United stated of America..
Democracy would see poorer people dominate.Saludos.
barrys cat is out of the bag
there are reasons why some people are poor.
sound decision making is not one of them.
The more political power the FSA in this country hold, the closer we get the the drain.
Leung is somewhat correct, although he expressed it poorly (get it?). It's not poor people that should not be allowed to vote; stupid and ignorant people should not be allowed to. Unfortunately it is somewhat difficult to keep stupid people from voting.
Perhaps a simple test before voting such as: "Where do they bury Ebola survivors?"
When poor people are allowed to vote, they vote for socialism, and a small, densely populated island with no natural resources can't afford socialism. Starving refugees would soon be fleeing Hong Kong on makeshift rafts, as they once fled Cuba, Vietnam, and now Venezuela.
The communists know they can't have real Socialism and Democracy because it will eventually break them. LOL. Communist say the darnest things!
deep down inside everybody in HK welcomes the CHICOMs they're much better than Americans, they actually have assets, dont push invasion, homosexuality and war
So what if the majority vote in what they think is their self intrest. Computerized voting adjusts for all voting errors.
the poor is the 99% and will never have a say. just veneers and vales and the empty promise of diebold that your vote counts.
take the red pill and bring the matrix down. long live snowden!
He has a great point. Why should poor people get to vote? Almost all poor people are either stupid or leeches, contribute relatively little, and tend to have more free time to be squeaky wheels. Someone needs to directly shit upon them to stop the decay that they're causing throughout the world (ie. Murika). It appears that the powerful forces in the world are not yet powerful enough to speak openly of things like this, so they sit back and give the poor people more time to continue to vote their own destruction... eventually the tables will be righted again.
"Freedom in capitalist society always remains about the same as it was in ancient Greek republics: Freedom for slave owners."
— Vladimir Lenin