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The Parrot Is Finally Dead: The Economist Does It Again
With its latest "coverage" of the European economy, the Economist may have finally jumped the parrot.
Hm, where else have we heard the "it's only resting" excuse? Oh yes, Mr Panos of course.
So... Europe is not not Greece?
h/t @Insidegame
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The Euro is dead, Long live the Euro.
Europe is like a condemned prisoner waiting execution. The final walk is coming.
No, Europe is the obvious outcome when the people of its nations buy into the socialist dream and sign up for cradle to grave gubbermint support.
Regards,
Cooter
Regardless of the health of the economy or the Euro, we can count on the same group of idiots propose doing more of the same things that got them into trouble in the first place, but this time it will be different. Thank God, I wouldn't want the folly of failure mess up their chances of being re-elected.
Seriously. It must really suck to have only one approach to resolving a problem. And when that one approach seems to be failing... doing MOAR of it will certainly solve the problem even fasterer.
Europe is like a cadaver waiting to be guillotined.
Your expert opinion is indispensable. I mean on fapping, not politics.
Brilliant comment.
Your mother should be proud.
You got it all wrong.
Consider this. If you fall of a building, you are falling. The cure is to keep falling faster. What will happen is that you will eventually stop falling.
Holy shit. I think I qualified myself for the fed board.
Live with the euro; die by the euro.
It's shuffled off its Mortal Coil. It's an Ex-Parrot. It's ceased to be. It is no more.
It's pushing up daisies. This parrot is dead. It's... fucking snuffed it!
It's pining for the fjords!
a new committee will work out a plan to get the Parrot back on its feet.
And, it will be known as the "Nail It To The Perch Committee."
does such an Europe actually exist, except in the neo-con prop across the pond? and it would be Peoples, plural, of it's Nations, which by the way tax themselves to buy that "socialist dream" you are writing about. Seriously, for an account over 4 years old you don't really seem to ever read any of the articles you comment upon
stop using Europe for your domestic politics. if you want to make a serious comparison, pick a damn country and bring some numbers. I'm quite sure that if you pick three I could show you how non-socialist they are compared to yours. do you know we have EU members that have a flat tax, for example?
The Economist is merely pointing out everyone already knows -- the EMZ economy is toast, and will never gain competativeness as a block, and will never return to growth as a block, absent
1) Lots and lots of CTRL+P, but we'll have to see what that does to the NEURO countries.
2) The modification of the current block.
Why is it so hard for people with a raging EU hardon to go
"Yes, we have some major problems, and its likely a good chunk of the EMZ won't regain lost ground for the forseeable future."
The problem I have with Eurofanatics, such as yourself, is you cannot be truthful, and admit the whole thing is beyond screwed. But hey, Draghi and Schultz do give excellent talking points to ARD and ZDF, that is until facts come out.
that's rich. you call me fanatic? You who collect over one hundred of your precious "likes" writing in the Soros article that you have a "hard-on for Putin because he can wipe off the EU", an argument that lacks every logic I can think of?
you who are actually still so much an American of the strangest, most uneuropean sort, so deeply engrossed in a North-South racial view of the world that you want to get rid of the EUR... while proposing a Northern version of it? As if the EU was a NAFTA superstate that needs cutting off it's Mexico?
you claim to be a number cruncher, yet when it comes to facts you don't bring any. bah, go on and collect your "likes" with strange assertions of "CTRL+P".
Numbers? The ECB's balance sheet is currently back at the same frigging level as in 2008. Explain this, before you claim CTRL+P
You don't bring facts, you bring propaganda, of the kind that is liked by some Americans who aren't interested in facts, and prefer to think themselves as very "liberty minded" while actually fawning for a kind of fascist regime of the european bent (with sprinklings of conservativism), like the two Russias are currently enjoying
"raging EU hardon" my hat. you have a raging, unexplainable anti-EU hardon, and every single argument you bring is actually about American domestic politics, with a strange need to project it onto Europe
Holy shit are you deluded. The EU, and everything about it, is utterly indefensible. But keep spluttering, I guess.
and the argument you use to convince me of my deluded spluttering is... that you "know"? or that your media is... right?
you are the guy that pontificates on one billion muslims based on what perhaps 10 million of them think, and never, ever calculated that it's 1% of the total. meanwhile there are perhaps 1 million extremists among them, which is... 0.1% of them. Yeah, very convincing
The euro is EU's Ebola. Get over it...
All this bickering is rather pointless. What part of all fiat will go to zero don't you guys understand? Lots of opportunity in these "interesting times", that's for sure.
These are the same bunch think ebola is a hoax, cannot trust their own political leaders, and in their unwinding grief are prepping for a zombie apocalypse. All symptoms of a mental breakdown at the national level. And we're not trying very hard to save ourselves. We in America watch waaaaay to much TV, our heros are mostly thugs who can throw a ball, we dress like children, and we couldn't recognize propaganda if it bit us in the ass. Not much to work with there. Don't expect a reasoned thought from much of this crowd, they are too busy being terrified of a bleak and desperate future.
Your closing statement in particular just nails it. Well said.
Never argue about religion.
There it is. I won.
As soon as someone comes at me with either a racist or a Nazi, you have lost all ability to contribute positively to the debate.
Hace you looked at the ECB balance sheet on a 10 year chart?
Apparently not.
Lastly, you accuse me of propaganda, but I am merely repeating what the ECB itself is saying.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/8bfb07d4-59f8-11e4-9787-00144feab7de.html
See Ghordo, I used to have an immense amount of respect for you, but the fact of the matter remains that whenver the topic is ECB problems, you revert to a form of Orwellian double speak, where you say, habitually the exact opposite of what is actually true.
Lastly, if the EZ's economy is so fixed, when we should see materially more balance sheet contraction than we actually are. So you have funds coming in, with new funds going out at a greater rate than they are coming in. Thus, my CTRL + P is a good anaology.
Yes, I have a raging hardon for the end of the EMZ and the EU. No where else in the world does such a fundamentally undemocratic facist organization exist that has masqueraded as there to support freedom and democracy. The EU is nothing but Authoritarian European Socialism.
"Lastly, you accuse me of propaganda, but I am merely repeating what the ECB itself is saying."
actually you are repeating what the FT says, which quotes Bruegel, a think tank, which then quotes the ECB
which is ECB propaganda expanded by Bruegel propaganda and then expanded again by Financial Times propaganda
don't take your eyes off that chart, which is the only factual part of that article. it's very easy: a balance sheet of two trillons in 2008 was expanded to three trillions, and now it's back to two trillions. watch what they do, not what they say
meanwhile, you have no factual arguments for your last paragraph. I point to the EU Council and the (elected) EU Parliament. I repeat, you are projecting US domestic issues on Europe, laced with Russian propaganda
I am projecting freedom and common sense on Europe. You're defaulting lately to your "anglo-American talking points" nonsense again. Yoking two dramatically different cultures together under one monetary policy is a horrible idea. Full stop.
It's the reason why we have these problems right now. Yes this runs along Germanic/Scandinavian Latin lines. It doesn't make me racist for pointing that out. When you say such -- you discredit yourself because you are intentionally ignoring the point I am making for the benefit of your ideology and the "experiment."
If there were just a little bit of honesty coming from someone in Brussels other than the Five Star Movement, AfD and UKIP -- then lots of criticism here would cease. The problem is the EU bobbble heads (your employer) default to this Orwellian double speak every time they get asked a question they cannot answer truthfully without hurting the "experiment." You really aren't any different in this regard. Sad. I hope your intellectual honesty is worth what they are paying you.
first, this is again a projection of yours: "yoking two... cultures". The United States might have two main cultures engaged in a culture war, we in Europe have plenty more of them. If you do in earnest divide the continent along Germanic/Scandinavian lines versus Latin... what about the Slavic cultures? What about Finland? What about Hungary? You just neglect... history. Very, very un-european. Germany itself has three cultural divides. Germany itself had several cultural wars, the most famous being the Catholic vs Protestant one which involved Prince Otto von Bismarck
second, you are correct, it does not make you a racist. for using racist or "culturist" arguments. in fact, I am perfectly willing to allow racist or cultural arguments... if they have any validity. my problem is that you are using the most invalid arguments out of the "racist" argumentarium
third, you again use "Brussels" as a cover-up. you are informed enough to realize that the "game" is among Rome, Paris, London, Berlin, etc. But you do like to use "Brussels" because it gives you nice "likes". In short, you like populist arguments of the empty kind. Look up for the definition of "truthiness" as invented by it's author
fourth, is it the frigging time for honesty? Most emphatically... no. This is what you simply don't understand. Yin and Yang. You are culturally a product of a very "Yang" setup: you set one goal, and then you pursue it, straight as an arrow. European politics is all about "Yin": keeping options open. Because it's all dependent from what other polities do, next
fifth: Five Star, AfD, UKIP, Front National... can you really bunch all those movements together? How? You like them for their criticism to the status quo, but you don't seem to interest yourself for the angle of their criticism. which again is shallow populism
sixth: you discredit yourself by arguing for a NEURO instead of the return of the national currencies
seventh: you know my employer? a small disclosure: it's myself
eight: you aren't "projecting freedom and common sense" on Europe. A small example: what you shortly ago advocated for little Switzerland... without even asking yourself for the fraction of a second what the Swiss... want
perhaps I simply can't explain the "project" to you. perhaps it's my fault for not finding the right words. perhaps it is simply too much... cultural. but perhaps it's also because you simply don't read. take my "Brussels" vs the national capitals argument. I have the impression that it completely zips over your head, as much as when I write about national sovereignty. Which then leads me back to my working assumption that you literally can't get off your "projecting" mode
stop projecting your American Cultural War on Europe. Open Your Eyes
*sigh*
First -- there are many many many cultures on the continent of Europe. Many. I have never said there wasn't. Quit putting words in my mouth. You know very well I am talking about monetary cultures.The fact of the matter is, there is a very clear divide in world competetativeness along the Alps. Believe it or not -- different groups of people spend and save money in different ways.
Those people who have benefitted from the traditionally warm temperatures of the Med or the North Atlantic current have traditionally milder Winters, warmer summers and longer growing seasons. But I've done this speech to you more than once. You know where I am going with it -- and you habitually ignore it.
Then, you whip out this ad hominem, and follow it up with "I don't understand the EU and the EMZ because I am not European."
This is by far -- the most lazy argument of yours I have seen in quite some time. One doesn't have to be "European" to be able to spot the fatal flaws within the EMZ and the EU. You yourself, whom aren't an American or Russian can go on, ad infium, about the failures and flaws within these two systems. No one has ever here -- said you cannot understand the problems because you are not American/Russian.
Therein lies the difference between you and I, and you and most of the rest of the forum here. I have no problem going on and on and on about how completely fucked the US is. I can talk about its corrupt politicians, its morally, financially and ideologically bankrupt banking system. Its cultural decay, usw. usf., I can talk about how screwed Russia is due to its massive population issues, its inability to produce anything save unrefined natural resources in any meaningful quantity, and the like. Then, I go off on how fucked up the EU and EMZ is and you get all butt hurt?
You, as a statist -- realise that the chorous of EU and EMz critiscism -- if it were to become "mainstream" would further inflate the anti-EU and anti-EMZ movements on the continent. This would result in some government, somewhere, collapsing, and being replaced with a Marie la Pen type of persona. If one country leaves, the "irreversability" of the projected is destroyed, and its demise begins.
Second, if by "nations that share similar monetary cultures (e.g., roughly equally competetative) can share a currency, but nations that do not share a moneatry culture (not equally competative) cannot share a currency" is an invalid argument, then you need to explain to me why the inverse is accurate. That being -- why nations that are not competetive with one another can share a currency and why this is a valid argument.
Third, I could care less about "likes." A few of my comments 6-7 months ago had more than 400 downvotes. I scream about Brussels because, the EU's "seat" is in Brussels. It is the EU's "capital" (although why a free trade zone even needs a capital, or an anthem, or its own currency is beyond me.) and saying Brussels is a shorter way of saying the "EU cracken" and people understand what I am referring to. Most of my threads with the population here aren't as long as mine are towards you.
Fourth, so where are the options for "breaking the EMZ apart." I mean -- if the EU and EMZ is all about keeping all options open -- how can you define Draghi's statement that the project is irreversible -- if in fact, all options, are indeed open. See, the problem is, the EU and EMZ keeps all options open -- unless it involves the destruction of the system itself. You're a smart guy. You know (deep down inside) that the PIIGS will never, ever be able to compete with Germany unless Germany destroys itself. You see, who benefits from the EU and more specifically the EMZ remaining in place? The people in the south of Europe? Nope. Any look at their financials and then the world's competetiveness report will tell you its horrible for them. What about hte people in the North of Europe? No again -- save Luxemboug, who have done quite well. People hold up Germany all the time, but if you look at German growth from 1960-1999 it averaged about 2.5% per year. From 2000 - 2014 its only 0.8%. Due to exponential growth, the difference in economy opportunity cost (before you factor in bailouts) is almost 30% of 2013 BIP. We're talking about 600 Billion EUR (1.2 Trillion dMark) PER YEAR. See Ghordo, the only group of people taht the EU and EMZ really benefits are the people who work for the monstrocity, and the oligarchs who have formed at the top.
Fifth, at this point in time I would go ahead and throw Golden Dawn and the Greek Communist party in there with them. why? Their policies would destroy the EU and EMZ. At this point -- you are right -- it is my only goal. It is something I dream about sometimes. I would love to see this horrible horrible expirment come to an end, and those who forced it on their respective populations held to account. While I am sure the later will never happen, I am sure the former will, and Mr. Putin and his antics do nothing but cause more chaos in the EU and EMZ. Why he doesn't fund his own color revolution in Greece or Cataloynia is beyond me.
Sixth, there are plenty of very well respected economists who also argue for the NEURO. The fact of the matter is, the idea behind the EUR is excellent. Grouping smaller countries together to prove the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Very very good idea. Where the EUR went wrong -- is alowing peoples into the club that are too different in monetary habits. But this is water under the bridge for us. I look at the continent of Europe pragamtically, you remind me of a 3 year old asian kid going through the "its a small world after all" ride at Disney Land. I will just come out and say it -- your utopic ideas of all Europeans being equal in all things is insane. Not only does no one outside of the "expirment" and a few kool-aide drinkers here and there buy into it -- but mathmatically (look at world competativeness chart) you are incorrect. Period. Full stop. If you want the benefits of the EUR without the drawbacks, kick the Greeks out, lump nations north and East of the Alps and nations West and South of the alps into differing currency blocks. Will it be perfect? No. Will it be a lot better than the current situation, and be better than everyone going back to their own currencies? Sure. You bet.
Seventh -- if you don't work directly or indirectly for the EU -- you have drunk the cool aide. You come here all the time, you know how we think here. Yet you wonder why people scratch their heads and think you are a paid schill? Here is the thing man, while you think I am the LCD here on ZH -- barely able to think and with one foot still in the cave -- I *KNOW* you are a smart guy. What I cannot piece together is how someone who knows the facts as they are -- can still support this farce. Its why, I have, as of late, began to question your purpose here. Perhaps you enjoy the debate. Perhaps you enjoy the intellectual challange? Perhaps you are paid to troll us and the DT.
Stop projecting your ideals of a "European Union" should be, open your eyes, accept economic reality, and enough with the cool-aide.
I fully expect you to dodge more questions as the situations in the PIIGS and the PIIGS become PIIGS + F become more unstable. I expect you to resort to more ad hominem attacks, and expect more of your "friends" to show up, who circle jerk your posts, upvote you, and then never contribute anything else to the conversation.
Your insights into European history and politics are amazing, strange fellow.
Ad "competativeness as a block" - you mean what Detroit and San Jose stand for, e.g.?
I am pretty aept, for an American at "European" politics.
"European History" is a loaded word. There is lots of history on the continent of Europe, and the various nations and peoples of Europe have very long histories. "European" history -- this is a relativly new concept.
Semantics out of the way, your argument is weak. "Look how great the US works as a competetiveness block works, thus the EU can do the same thing." which I infer you are implying from your statement is wrong on so many levels.
1) It took over 150 years from the signing of the Constitution (the political creation of the American Republic) to 1914 when the USD was accepted at par across the entire continent. It also took a civil war. The EU is dissimilar in this reguard as they created a currency accepted at par across the continent without the political apparatus to go with it first. Moreover, they are trying to do this in a decade or two, whereas it took the US over 150 years to do this. Foolhardy is a compliment in this sense.
2) There was a massive political will of American people to establish a single country. We fought for our independence, and then fought a civil war to preserve the Republic. To establish the EMZ -- the woll was intentionally pulled over the eyes of its various peoples, with some leaders acting as "dictators" to do so.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/9981932/Helmut-...
3) Moreover, the cultures that spawned the American Monetary Union was, at its founding overwhelmingly British and German. These cultures -- at least from a monetary police perspective are very similar. Not identical, but much more similar than say the German and Italian monetary culture.
4) Lastly, in no American states has there ever been a bankrutpcy such as what we have experienced in Greece in 2012. States have never needed a bailout, and the thought of an American bailout for California (which was discussed in our recent history) brought about many of the similar complaints from more fiscally conservative states as we are experiencing in "Europe" right now.
So comparing the EMZ and the AMU is a false diachotamy. Great for the sheeple and low information voter, but if you do ANY research -- you'll realise its (the comparison) is a massive load of crap.
and by the way, this article's http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-23/george-soros-slams-putin-warns-...
where Soros agitates against Russia as "threat to Europe" is disgusting in both Soros content and ZH commentariat
Soros points to the right-wing and claims that unless the printing press is started, fascism is the result
what a disgusting point of view in defense of the Open Society which he upholds. I'm all in favour of the Open Society ideals of Karl Popper, but Soros seems oblivious to the fact that the biggest threat to the Open Society is the very debauchment of currency he is clamoring about, and forgets that it's the printing presses that favour his kind, which is the very thing the Far Right hates most, and swells their numbers
So to keep the system going -- if you are not in favor of currency debasement, then you are in favor of a single fiscal mechanisim (and thus a single military, as you cannot use the same budget to fund competeting militaries) -- which is/would be a de-facto transfer union?
that's the damn "The Economist" argument, and you swallowed it, bait, hooker and line
that has been the AngloSphere bankster argument for years: you are doomed, unless you debase your currency, or merge your fiscal and military capabilities, and print EuroBonds, or both, and do it asap
meanwhile you have also picked up some... whining on the fringe of the German debate, on phantom-yet-firmly-existing-in-the-minds transfer unions
we'll see, won't we? meanwhile, remember this: the argument is based on the assumption that we either follow the shining example or that we are utterly mad. it has been an argument used often by tyrants and whacky hegemons, in the past
oh, and note another thing: whenever I write about balanced budgets... you ignore the whole concept as if I was writing about sacrificing infants to Baal. the whole idea is probably so outlandish that your very brain freezes and passes over the lines, unread
I am not for currency debasement. You and I agree here. I do NOT want the ECB to expand its balance sheet buying worthless shit from the PIIGS.
I was the ECB balance sheet ot continue to contract. I've read analysis that the NEURO countries could eat a $1.55 EUR without issue. I would LOVE to see this, and see deflation in energy prices and raw materials. Would be awesome as it would put more money into peoples pockets.
I wish the Bundesbank and Bundesfinanzministerium would just run the whole continent and be open about it. One of my pet peeves about the EU and EMZ project is making worthless countries feel important. I hate it. What ever happened to the idea of social Darwainism?
yes, what happened to Social Darvinism? In Europe, it went down the drain together with eugenics and it's main defender... National Socialism
meanwhile, it thrives in... the United States of America. By trying to re-import it in Europe, you are going against the european cultural mainstream... and you should know it
it's a perfect example of a point of American Cultural War. by asking the very question you show that you are... projecting. as much as by asking for a NEURO, or asking for the BundesBank and the BundesFinanzMinisterium to run the whole continent, and your request for "worthless" countries to cease to "feel important"
lol
Eugenics is live and well here in Europe.
Think about what the end of social darwinism would result in. The cultures that have habits and values that cause them to advance will be artifically retarded for the benefit of cultures that have habits and values that would cause them to go extinct. Fast forward this process a few hundred years -- and you have a huge problem. Sure the whole world is at peace, but our living standards have been so dramatically reduced via the elimination of competetion (what social darwinism thrives on) -- that it humanity's greatest achievements would already be behind us. What took us to the moon? The Cold War and the competetion between the USSR and the USA. Would that have happened in the time frame without such competetion? No, likely not.
Social Darwainism is essentially the a species that can advance. Eliminate "survival of the fittest" and we're all fucked.
Lastly, THERE IS NO EUROPEAN CULTURAL MAINSTREAM! Look at the largest political part in France and Italy right now. Both want to destroy the EU and EMZ. Look at the UK. The second largest political party wants to destroy the EU. Look at Austria at the moment. Over 20% of the vote went to that Canadian fellow who wants to leave the EU and EMZ. Expect more pushback on these topics in the future. Expect the AfD to get 15-20% in the next national election here in Germany. Expect it to be at the expense of the Union as it moves into SPD territory.
You see, Europe, just like the USSA is fracturing. There are splits not just within nations, but the North/South divide. I just hope Mr. Putin and the FSB have the where-with-all to poke at these weak points with a sharp stick as hard as possible.
Are you sure you aren't German? You have this self-loathing prospectives about you that many of the SPD and Grüne shitheads have that I know. I really look forward to the next five years.
Lastly, you should really read the book "Der Crash ist die Lösung" Its excellent, and really hardened why I know I am correct, and your ideology is incorrect. You have the political establishment on your side, I have Supply and Demand, and humanity being an intrensicially selfish species on mine.
I predict you'll win many of the battels to come -- but I'll ultimately end the war. I wish more than anything I knew you in real life. When this shit does come apart at the seams, you would be the first phone call I make -- but alas -- I have enough people to ärger when this shit does come apart.
Your comments provide necessary balance.
[That was intended for ghordius]
Soros is an old man with money but no time left. He is irrelevant. Europe as such is a mess and not only because of the Single Currency. Its Southern Belt has a different tax culture and its rich hide in Luxembourg and London parking their costs in Club Med and their revenues offshore through Cyprus or Jersey.
The corruption increases exponentially as you leave the Northern Protestant core of Europe and progress towards the periphery of the EU.
The fact is that Europe would need increased autarky to reflate itself and import controls - China has been the single largest cause of monetary drain from the West and the greatest leakage from the world economy
Sandmann, you very arguments are full of this Northern Protestant Ethics stuff that the AngloSphere is so fond of since Napoleon was beaten at Waterloo
yet you are a learned man. go and dig a bit deeper in history, and you'll find that the whole northern part of Europe used to be the butt of many jokes for nearly two millennia, painting all Northerners as uncouth, illogical, slightly dumb and not industrious at all. Check on Frederick the Great, for example, the King of Prussia that preferred to speak French to German and sometimes dispaired on the capabilities of his Nation's populations
as one of the best ZH commentators used to say, there is bottom-up and top-down corruption. and where you live features the second kind, in an impressive way
the EU is a "kind of" autarky instrument ready to use... if needed. and ZH featured an article, lately, of how it is already becoming the new "big saver" to match the "great spender"
Yes the north of Europe wad the butthole of Europe until the industrial revolution when the growing season became irrelevant and the south exported raw materials and food to the north while the north exported manufactured goods to the south.
But alas -- we've talked about how climate has shaped various nations in Europe's economies at length.
The problem is if you acknowledge these fundamental differences in spending and saving habits -- you acknowledge the single largest flaw within the single currency, which you cannot do -- because -- God forbid common sense and logic get in the way of the experiment.
"if you acknowledge these fundamental differences in spending and saving habits"
yes, compare the spending and saving habits of let's say Germans and... Cypriots. for that, you can go back to ZH articles about how... wealthy Cypriots are, in aggregate
but Cyprus is perhaps a bad example. Take Italy. Who saves more, Italians or Germans? Don't answer me here, just check on your assumptions
this place, ZH, is so funny. when it comes to defend gold, honest "bugs" crawl all over the place. and yet gold was a common currency, wasn't it? how could gold possibly function, in regard to your argument?
The Italians save more money than the Germans do, but not in liquid cash -- but in real estate. For example, the Italins have the highest home ownership rate in all of continental Europe (only the Aisle of Mann has one that is higher.)
However, if the matric swings to access to liquidity on demand -- the Germans win. The Germans save more as a % of their income y/o/y than the italians do. Moreover, much of Italian wealth is predicated on housing prices remaining at the current levels. As soon as interest rates rise, and housing prices fall -- Italian savings plummit along with it.
Explain to me why when all currencies were converted into the EUR, why it took 2 DM to get 1 EUR and it took north of 1,000 Llira to get a EUR.
wrong. all Southerners, not only Italians, save lots and lots of liquid cash. of the most liquid kind: banknotes
go back and have a look at the statistics for cash in circulation. and then remember how much cash on northern bank accounts is actually held by... Southerners
Yes the north of Europe wad the butthole of Europe until the industrial revolution when the growing season became irrelevant and the south exported raw materials and food to the north while the north exported manufactured goods to the south.
Very true, but 2 points.
1) The industrial revolution was instigated by, and solely depends upon crude oil.
2) Another way to look at the scenario in your above statement can be that south outsourced their manbufacturing to the northern peasants :)
Important point is, how long can the south survive without the manufactured goods and north without the food, when sands start shifting again.
Yes the north of Europe wad the butthole of Europe until the industrial revolution when the growing season became irrelevant and the south exported raw materials and food to the north while the north exported manufactured goods to the south.
But alas -- we've talked about how climate has shaped various nations in Europe's economies at length.
The problem is if you acknowledge these fundamental differences in spending and saving habits -- you acknowledge the single largest flaw within the single currency, which you cannot do -- because -- God forbid common sense and logic get in the way of the experiment.
Freegold solves most of that. it's close and closer still.
Blaming the socialist dream for the consequences of a plan to centralise power is about as sensible as blaming bank depositors when a bank gets robbed. The group that deserves the blame are the elite that have conspired to centralise power rather than the public who have been victimised by this scheme. You are well named crazy cooter!
I think blaming the shareholders of a Krupp, IG Farben, or Monsanto or Dow is completely legitimate.
Shareholder: we don't want to know how you're doing it, just keep those dividends coming.
and woe is me to anyone trying to tell them there is no easter bunny, santa, or magic lamp jinnie
Listen Coots.
That's what I've been saying to you guys. Why work when you can get the American Dream the easy way. The USSA Mexicans and USSA blacks do it.
1) You need an excuse for disability, back problem, knee, mental(easiest to fake). But you need an excuse for permanent disability. I can no longer perform my work or any other because of ..... problem.
2) Find a American lawyer who specializes in SSDI. Look around for blogs written by lawyers. They will give you tips on how to do it. Go to the lawyer and tell them you can no longer work and you need them as an advocate to fight for your "RIGHTS".
3)Sit back an collect the checks.
4) Start a little cash business on the side(wink).
There you are, sitting on easy street. Travel, read, watch TV, whatever just have fun.
You're welcome.
If need be, Europe will be sacrificed on the Fed Altar, to protect itself, and the Dollar to keep its GRC status. Big fish eat little fish -- as always.
Notice however the nice deflection and redirection away from the even bigger Ponzi: The fiat USD. Backed by Oil, enforced with Blackmail, Bribes and sheer Force.
.
Yep, just like the former Soviet Union. The "official" economy was always "fine".
Real life was something else entirely. Fine, no rules for the oligarchs means no rules for me.
Fuck em.
Wish it were that simple, but hey, good luck with that!
"Wish it were that simple"--
no shit sherlock, look at my moniker, not a very critical thinker are you?
Monty Python Dead Parrott sketch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ0218
Thanks. I had no idea what they were going for.
that's the reference The Economist is using, and very British indeed, and that's the "usual refrain" in the article "If Europe is to stop its economy getting worse, it will have to stop its self-destructive behaviour. The ECB needs to start buying sovereign bonds."
Which of course is reminiscent of the old refrain about Europe having to issue EuroBonds, asap, and print, print, print, dammit, print like the US (and UK)
not printing is self-destructive, of course, while printing is the right course, which will lead everybody to riches, etc. etc.
it would be funny if it wasn't so damn depressing. At least the calls for the EUR to die because... because... whatever, as long as it dies... are funnier
This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!
"Which of course is reminiscent of the old refrain about Europe having to issue EuroBonds, asap, and print, print, print, dammit, print like the US..."
Yes it is, which means these "people" are impervious to evidence. If creating money and credit to buy up bonds (or anything else) solved economic problems, then Japan and the US should be in the vanguard of the world's booming economies. So the argument that these "people" are trying to restore/restart their respective economies is bogus (and I suspect they know it...though I do leave room for plain obstinance and ignorance).
That then begs the question, whose interests ARE they serving and to what ends? I know the gentlemen and ladies on this site know the answer, but it's always worth re-asking if only as an antidote to the fluff and piffle of pseudo-analysis that gets coughed up regularly by the "Economist"
everyone is working for their own self interests. Everyone combined is keeping this thing together to get "theirs" at this moment. As soon as they can't get what they want for the paper, the jig is up and this system finishes dying. Freegold is revealed then. Patience padawan.
"everyone is working for their own self interests. Everyone combined is keeping this thing together to get "theirs" at this moment. As soon as they can't get what they want for the paper, the jig is up and this system finishes dying. "
The tipping point silently comes ever closer.
It WILL tip over and break.
Somewhere there is a reluctant participant in this charade who is losing patience, and getting older and wiser and damned tired of the ever escalating requirements for productivity; cognizent all the while of the obvious and undeniable bullshit and rampant theft and deep unapologetic corruption that fuels the bezzle as it over-ripens into worthless rotten shit.
Sooner or later that Someone is not goint to continue trading their life away or condone the trading of their children's lives away for fizzling inflationary fiat, repression and broken promises.
"Hell is coming to breakfast"
I agree with the premise that the Anglosaxon world apparently prefers to see us print ourselves into oblivion. Why exactly? I dunno, maybe they would like to see Europe blow itself up in a very Krugmanesqsue sort of way. Combine that with the fact that the US aced us into rather mindless sanctions vis-à-vis Russia (or should I say that Europe lacks the cojones to be sufficiently defiant towards its American cousin, or worse still, played an active part in creating the mess in Ukraine) and I put it to you that it is high time Europe follows a course of its own. And starts studying the concepts of common sense and realpolitik. Indeed, at this point, I think Europe has no lessons to receive from the USA, no lessons whatsoever. To the contrary, it would be better if Europe started trying to talk some sense into the US.
BUT, Ghordius, I really think this whole single currency thing was a mistake. Take a look at Greece. What do you see? You see a dying country for lack of devaluation options. They lived a temporary dream based on cheap debt and now that dream has brutally come to and end. You refer to numbers and facts. Well the numbers and facts in countries like Greece, Spain, Italy and now France et alii are simply horrible, there's no other word for it. You see, that is Europe too: in order to preserve its grand scheme of a united family of European nations, it seems to be perfectly willing to sacrifice members that sort of lost their head in the pursuit of everlasting but elusive wealth. I think this situation is an outright disgrace for every self respecting European citizen. We should have restriced ourselves to a looser "bund" of cooperating nations. I am, in other words, a eurosceptic, as you should already know by now. And the real problem is, I think there will be other Greeces in the near future.
my question is if Greece would be in a less horrible position if they'd be devaluing. and yet I have to point to Greeks, those in Greece, and what they want
if devaluation is the golden way to riches, why don't we all do moar of it? Meanwhile Greeks prefer to keep to the EUR. why? Can it be that they know that their situation would just look better, for a while, and actually be... worse?
the problem with talking sense to anybody is... their willingness to listen
Yes, I think Greece would have been better off, with a much lower standard of living and much less fancy (and now in part obsolete) infrastructure, but it would still have societal cohesion. How can they possibly do worse than now? Anything worse and you're simply a failed state, period. Italy is another, less horrific example: they were doing just fine postwar, all the while devaluing their lire and thus maintaining their competitivity (I still remember those colourful banknotes with ever growing numbers on them), in fact they managed to become a European powerhouse. But ever since the introduction of the Euro, they have been doing badly, these past years even scoring negative growth numbers, if memory serves.
As to why Greece still clings to the Euro: quite frankly, I have no idea. Big mystery. Fear of the unknown? Assuming - incorrectly, I might add - that the alternative is even worse? Why does Japan keeps doing what it is currently doing? I mean, what they are doing now defies all logic and common sense, does it not? Why does the US allows for impressive deficits, year after year, as if math doesn't matter and gravity doesn't exist? Is it not all sheer madness?
And where did you ever sense that I am not willing to listen to what you have to say?
Yep.
Regions that are prinitng (USA, UK, Japan) are dying economically.
Regions not (yet) printing are dying too (Eurozone).
We need a third way.
Economist is frightened of where George Osborne has taken UK national debt
And as a nice spin-off, the "Dead dollar sketch" from 2008 at http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JC04Dj07.html
It's all Putin's fault I tell you! Cue George Soros.
mr panos is quite dashing. I'm not sure what facet of his appearance is most striking. is it his short-shorts? his white socks and sandals? or is it really that '70s wannabe fu manchu?
regardless, he's a freakin' riot and welcome to my parties anytime.
Best thing about The Economist is that when I send people excel spreadsheet analyses, I title them in cell A1 with red shading, white boldface Times New Roman font, left-aligned, and wrap text, and they think it's the real f'n deal. Amazing what branding does.
Now, when I use elephant font, they think I'm issuing treasury bearer bonds to them. This is how people think - with their eyes, not their minds.
doop
My Girlsfield cousin next door neighbor baby sister worked on backpage ... Until..? She rested up and used the Internet for other purposes and ....
Are you ready.... Cashed in (Ching-Ching).... But I forgot how....
Go ahead douche.... Theres your que...........
My Girlsfield cousin next door neighbor baby sister worked on backpage ... Until..? She rested up and used the Internet for other purposes and ....
Are you ready.... Cashed in (Ching-Ching).... But I forgot how....
Go ahead douche.... Theres your que...........
They cannot goose this market much more without more QE. The plunge protection team has got the S&P almost back to 2000. Look at Soros tripping all over himself. Can't he just go die and rot somewhere?
They need external QE, a European version of Abenomics to goose the dollar and US markets through carrytrade. Kill gold too.
USA, USA!
He's pining for the fjords.
"This parrot wouldn't VOOM if you passed 4 trilllion € through it!"
He's simply pining for the fjords...
http://olduvai.ca
Heheh.
Top Draw ref. Ken
Did you remember schnitzle-face?
"Greece has problem ? No, you have problem cause you give Greece the money ! "
I had forgotten about hilarious Mr.Panos, thanks for throwback Thursday treat Tyler.
Mr. Panos is the man.
But there are many headlines to be had between "the economy is moribund" and "we are out of toilet paper, pass the EU note".
Best cover ever for The Economist. Same might be said of the rag itself.
I've always wondered how their interview process works - how on earth do they manage to weed out everyone who isn't a cunt?
If you turn the magazine a quarter-turn counter-clockwise, then it appears a floundering Europe is crushing Merkel with its sharp, rigor mortis talons.
Bwaaak. Polly wants more stimulus. Bwaaak.
Thats copyright infringement. Get 'em pythons!
Are they calling a bottom with this? /sarc
as a contrarian indicator... expect EUR strength and USD weakness
Probably wrong again but way I see it attack in Ottawa is terrifying to Europe.
Irony is I can understand this kid who is being trapped in his own country. As long as the folks who leave know this is a one way ticket I fail to see the problem. In that sense you can still get your work visa I guess.
I say again the USA is not the enemy of Islam.
Thats policy going back to 9/11...and knowing what I know now all I have to say is thank God for that. Friggin keystone cops running the whole show...no one cares about the Christians that are now all dead, no one cares about the war dead or wounded, no one cares about the flag or the country or the economy. The whole thing has been about stealing money from Day One...and even that isn't going well because there is no honor period in all of this...let alone among thieves.
All trade is barter or bilateral in essence.
Money helps to quantify and keep the accounting ledgers.
When money is printed by a centralised institution then that institution can shave portions of other peoples buys and sells and eventually (added with the effect of interest) none of that buy or sell is worthwhile for anyone anymore and the central instituion ends up owning everything.
Profit is when you have 1 chicken which lays 20 eggs and hatches 20 chicks, not printed money.
Problems of Europe are the same what others countries, have already, are or will be facing eventually.
Tick tock motherfuckers.
All trade is barter? Are you kidding? How about credit? Did you ever hear about that? You don't build a steel mill with barter. You have to pay for it up front with cash. Can you imagine a modern market for big ticket items without credit?
Of course, if you have a stone-age view of economics, nothing that has been developed in the last few millenia, like banking, bonds, or stocks will appear useful to you, so enjoy your cartoon book understanding of the world. It is immune to any facts and thus will save you much study effort.
Credit has its place. But it should NEVER form the basis of your economy! NEVER!
The problem with how WE have used credit is not those steel mills, or other large projects. It's when you allow easy credit to permeate the entire economy, to the point where people are swiping their credit cards for routine, everyday purchases.
Aside from a mortgage, the average person not involved in big finance shouldn't HAVE a debt load unless something happened outside the norm, requiring such a loan.
And without all the 'easy credit', prices would not have risen so high as to require credit in the first place. They WANT easy credit though, in order to be able to raise prices to skim profits.
And your final paragraph reminds me of why we have such a hard time fixing shit like this. You assume that anyone who doesn't approve of our modern financial system has a "stone age view". That we are not nearly as modern and developed as you Masters of the Universe. Thus, you refuse to even consider the possibility that you are wrong, and that there IS a better way that hasn't occurred to your bright self yet. You harbor an intellectual arrogance all too common these days, and this is why the rest of us can't have nice things.
You seem a little agitated and did not comprehend what I said (probably my stone age mindset gave you some misconceptions).
So let this Stone Ager give you some clarifications. I said:
All trade is barter or bilateral in essence.
in essence - You you dont eat, drink or live credit or money itself. At some point you will settle the credit and buy something, or you will pass it on to the next guy who will buy something, that makes it a barter arrangement.
e.g. You work as some super genius intellectual and get paid $10'000 (pardon me if it is actually too low for your time and expertise) for doing a 2 hour presentation. You then spend this money to buy a pair of shoes, suit, fine dining etc.
So, in essence attendees to your seminar bartered, for what you spend those proceeds on, say you bought a suit.
You provided your expert advise in exchange for a suit.
The attendees bartered a suit for your expert advise.
Isin't that how barter works?
Yes, I know its not a direct 2 party barter but involving multiple parties who pass the "money" around until final settlement.
------------------------
What did I say about Credit? You probably jumped over the "centralised control of credit" and created a strawman using Credit.
Credit is ABSOLUTELY fine, only its monopolistic control is NOT!
Anyone and everyone should be allowed to issue credit, money, IOUs etc. (not just Banks) Let the most trustworthy survive and let the dishonest and neglectful perish. Simple.
Free market you know, which you might not have much fondness of.
So you want to build a Steel Mill?
Sure, let someone with expertise, dedication and skill issue Credit to build the Steel Mill by him/herself. Why only banks can make or break such ventures?
Rome was not built in a day. One has to start from scratch and then build over years as one earns respect and people's confidence.
If that was too much to understand, than in one line, I am not against credit or issuing of currency, only its centralised control. Anyone and everyone should be allowed to issue credit, currency and IOUs etc.
You can do everything with barter and private issuance of credit by individuals. The only limitation is your imagination.
Power to the people!
(which intel-lack-tuals like you might hate... lulz)
If you hadn't nailed it to the perch, it would pushing up the daisies!
I used to get The Economist but canceled it. Every writer in that yellow journal is a Fabian socialist.
They even had an article that blamed all the budget problems in California on, the Constitution, the republicans and the electorate... but not the democrats who run the state! That is like saying the car went into the ditch because it was a ford, the passengers were sleeping and the road was paved... the driver had nothing to do with it.
I cannot tolerate paying for absurdity and The Economist is too often absurd...
California's economy is recovering nicely under the economic policies of the Democrats. The mass exodus from the state predicted has not materialized, and the savage cuts that threatened the fine public university system are being reversed. What you see in California will be replayed on a larger scale nationally once demgraphics overwhelms the gerrymandered electoral maps of the Republicans.
Angry white guys are a dwindling species. Get used to it.
I bet your real name is Bagdad Bob.....
Kant = Kunt
California #1 Welfare state
I am going to spread this great news so the libtards there stop moving out and ruining the surrounding states..
When all the white guys are gone USSA will be just like Honduras or South Africa... Fail
Million Dollar Bonus, is that You?
The Chinese, they used to be called Japanese. ......LOL !!
For those who don't know, Economist is owned by Rothchilds.
I thought it was Pearson and staffed with Old Etonians writing for Beltway
Prediction: The Cheese Shop is next. Perhaps The Argument.
We've already had The Ministry of Silly Walks.
I LOVE the Argument Room! One of Python's best!
Regions that are printing (USA, UK, Japan) are dying economically.
Regions not (yet) printing are dying too (Eurozone).
We need a third way
Third Way is pure Mussolini
The third way is obvious but, unfortunately, the third way is not politically expedient.
Austerity. {Sound monetary policy. Spending LESS than you bring in. Eliminating waste. Paying off debt. Etc}
That is the CURE to our ills.
We live in a social democracy with a fiat currency. Consequently we have voted ourselves/written checks our body can't cash. We will pay lip service / address SYMPTOMS but we won't take the third way.
In my experience, when The Economist puts things on its covers you should assume the opposite to what it's saying, eg oil in 2000, etc etc. BTFEuropeanD!!
Amazing how millions are suffering and yet there is barely a ripple in the serenity of the mass media coverage - we bomb some folks turture some impoverish some infect some over throw some and spy on some folks. Its all no big deal really. I dont feel a thing.
"ECB must buy soverign bonds"
What a totally fresh, original idea... /s
I you guys would just give it a chance dr pk's medicine will take affect. You have to think happy thoughts
Mr. Panos is hilarious. And smart. Because he's Greek, I guess. See all his UTube vids.
The EU is a extreme corporate conduit like fascistic anti - state.
You can put other names on it such as socialism but what exactly is it socializing ?
Its putting the cost of the consumer war economy on human beings and it subsequently destroys them .
It most certainly is not a bottom up system of distribution.
I would regard it as the most demonic scarcity engine ever created.
Europe is fine if you are a bankster, Eurocrat or unelected whore.
Seems like one and the same.
That is the funniest videao I have seen in a long time. Hopefully, it is accurate as well. Go Greeks!!!!
They need MORE $$ Merkel......Funny but sad. ........ The way it is.......
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sears-close-stores-lay-off-5-500-employees...
Too bad the EU cannot share in Merika's robust rekovery.
how can a failed experiment get unlimited funding ? .... ask the ECB.
Why do people who are elected always screw those who elected them and render unlimited support to the euro ? .... time to ask the voter.
<rhetorical>.
The euro-zone is in a far bigger mess than recent headlines and figures suggest. Most of the growth in the Euro-zone over recent years has been in Germany and that bright spot is now under pressure. Italy has been in recession for two years; France’s economy has been stagnant for months.
Now that Germany is in trouble, many economist think the chances of a Japan-style deflationary spiral have risen sharply. What it all boils down to is Germany can’t keep buying Greek bonds and other bad debt with German taxpayer money until the end of time. The article below looks at the corner Central banks have painted economies into by attempting to paper over reality and how these polices will hinders growth for as long as the eye can see.
http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2014/10/global-economic-malaise-due-to-debt.html
"Hey schnitzel-face".... I will have to try to remember that one.
PARROTS! Filthy creatures! One canary can lick 10 parrots with one wing tied behind it's back!
Parrots rest on their backs all the time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK30IBGLI1I
Welcome to the world of Null-A.
QE QE QE QE QE
QE every where
Can u see the A$$hole in Obamma.
Its the very 'O'
The HomoMarijuana addicted brain.
is a nobrainer.
-------------------
MBA books will scream :
Obamma caused free money printing
and freefall of the world Economy