This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

China "Ghost Town Index" - Here Are China's 10 "Ghastliest" Cities

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Who can forget China's ghost city of Ordos: back in late 2009, when the hollow shell behind China's torrid growth was first revealed to the world, the city near China's Mongolia border was cooler talk for weeks. Fast forward five years later, and Ordos is all but forgotten, having been eclipsed by a veritable army of much bigger "ghosts" that make up the "ghost town network" - a list of cities created by the China Investment Network, a business newspaper in Beijing, to determine which cities were the most ghostly.

As Caixin reports, the newspaper devised its index using a government standard that says cities should have 10,000 people per square kilometer. The editors at China Investment Network determined that if a city's ratio of people to area was 0.5 – that is, it was half full – then it is a ghost town. To take the example a step further, if a city had a ratio of .10, then it had one-tenth the population the government thought it deserved. Based on this approach, at least 50 Chinese cities fit the description of "ghost town." The large city of Weihai, in the eastern province of Shandong, and the tourist destination of Sanya, in the south's Hainan Province, were among China's emptiest.

 

And here is how a Goldman analyst recount his "on the ground" visit around some of the more prominent Chinese ghost cities. From Goldman's Kenneth Ho:

In August, the GS Asia Credit Strategy team spent four days in China, visiting a number of property development projects as well as a couple of well-publicized “ghost towns.” While this brief trip to a limited number of developments is unlikely to provide a full picture of the real estate market in China, it does offer a first-hand look at some of the most widely cited concerns about China’s housing build-up. Kenneth Ho offers his takeaways (and pictures) below.

Less ghostly than expected, but still spooky

The couple of “ghost towns” we visited, while less desolate than some press reports would suggest, were indeed very quiet. We did not prearrange the visits, and we went to the sales offices as well as seeing the properties. Both towns we saw have been in development for about a decade. Tianducheng, or Sky City, on the outskirts of Hangzhou has been reported by the press as deserted (e.g., by Reuters). Although the development was relatively quiet, there were a fair number of occupants in the residential buildings, and we got the sense that tenants were slowly moving in. The staff at the sales office told us that the occupancy rate is around 60% for the completed and sold units. There is further development in Tianducheng, and we did see more construction work taking place – but it was not the desolate town portrayed by the press.

A second well-publicized “ghost town” (e.g., by the South China Morning Post) we visited was Jingjin New Town, on the outskirts of Tianjin. This development is mostly comprised of villas and separated into ten phases. According to the staff at the sales office, phases 1 to 4 have been mostly sold, and phase 5 may be released later this year, though there were no plans at that moment to release phases 6 to 10. We believe that half of the development (phases 1 to 5) have already been built, with the other half (phases 6 to 10) yet to be constructed. Despite most of the completed villas having been sold, from what we saw, the occupancy level is very low, and some unsold villas are not in the best shape. The sales office told us that the project targeted retirees or second/holiday homebuyers working in Beijing and Tianjin (hence the low occupancy), and that it is busier during public holidays and weekends. We cannot verify this statement, and it is difficult to assess which factors are driving the low occupancy rate. Projects of this type have not been attracting much demand, and the town was very quiet overall. That said, we did not see a significant amount of uncompleted constructions. As in Sky City, however, it appeared that more development was coming through.

Construction still dominates the landscape

We visited other projects in Tianjin, Hangzhou, and Hohhot, as they are tier 2 and 3 cities with meaningful excess supply. In Tianjin and Hangzhou, we saw developments on the outskirts as well as some closer to the city center. Although it appeared that YTD sales had been satisfactory, we saw significant amount of construction activity; most projects were targeting improved sales in 2H14, with new launches to come. In Hohhot, a provincial capital reported as having some of the most significant overbuild, centrally located developments targeting the mass market appeared to be seeing demand, though less so for the higher-end projects. But we did see signs of overbuilding, which raises questions about whether newer properties, particularly on the outskirts, will find sufficient demand.

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:17 | 5385457 power steering
power steering's picture

Cormac's inspiration for "The Road" 

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:26 | 5385472 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Build it and they will not come!

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:29 | 5385488 USisCorrupt
USisCorrupt's picture

I bet no one there will ever get Ebola.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:57 | 5385569 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

-1 <----looks like the CDC just weighed in.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:42 | 5385684 Publicus
Publicus's picture

These cities are for post WW3 resettlements.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 10:00 | 5385754 Pickleton
Pickleton's picture

Yup, the Agenda 21 resettlement cities and subsequent blocking off vast swaths of land from ALLLL human use.  WW3 will be the primer that forces ctiizens to accept it.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 10:07 | 5385783 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I thought Squirrels Looking for Nuts would welcome Agenda 21. Meanwhile, I do hope you will, in future, explain in great detail with many serious sources how Agenda 21, Santa Claus or The Flying Pizza will force citizens to accept whatever you fear

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 11:09 | 5386013 Save_America1st
Save_America1st's picture

you asked for it...RE: Agenda 21

 

This website is supposed to be the most comprehensive regarding the evils of Agenda 21. 

http://www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com/

The site name is kinda odd since everyone should be against Agenda 21, but in defense of that, the owner of it is a lady named Rosa Koire.  She created it because she lives in Calfiornia and has witnessed the evils of Agenda 21 in California and she is probably one of the world's top experts on what the U.N. and our government scum are doing to institute Agenda 21 in America. 

She named it that because this "Green" and "Earth" bullshit and Agenda 21 are just fronts used by these Marxist/Commie scumbag, traitors and they hide under the guise of being "liberal" on the Lefty side of things.  So she wants Democrats who have been bamboozled by all this global warming, green, Agenda 21 bullshit to wake the fuck up and help the rest of us out here to fight against it. 

I've heard her interviewed on this about a dozen times now and she knows her stuff and knows what these fuckers are really up to very well.

Unfortunately, too many of the sheep-tards are going along with this shit or are being victimized by it every day. 

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 11:16 | 5386035 Otto Zitte
Otto Zitte's picture

Nature preserves as merc bases for the cabal Research it. Who claims our parks? By what treachery?

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 21:21 | 5388290 heywood2
heywood2's picture

Wow, you're nuts.

 

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 11:15 | 5386036 donsluck
donsluck's picture

Your statement "since everyone should be against Agenda 21" reveals a bias so strong that it interferes with your reasoning. Obviously people thought up and support Agenda 21 (whatever that is). Sorry, you lost me.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 11:28 | 5386074 PT
Tue, 10/28/2014 - 22:49 | 5388558 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Any time you give a few that much power over the many, everyone should be against it because some awful things are going to happen that didn't need to happen.  Words have meanings and those meanings matter.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 13:17 | 5386520 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

re: Agenda 21. I asked, I got a link. where I read: "In a nutshell, the plan calls for governments to take control of all land use and not leave any of the decision making in the hands of private property owners."

so it is about zoning laws. The creation of more dense settlements. The creation of more nature parks. etc. etc.

I'm European. My interest in Agenda 21 is so damn low for one simple reason: it describes our legal reality of the last 100 years. Most of our forests and national parks are a product of this kind of thinking.

so, again, where is the evil of Agenda 21, exactly? In some local authorities applying "lofty UN principles" in heavy handed local fashion on locals? How exactly? Local laws forcing evictions?

and perhaps I have to explain the european experience of the last 100 years: mostly, it was about not being able to build... more. Except in designated areas. which is a "transfer of wealth". Is this what you are railing against? Or more generally about government having no business in making zoning laws? trying to understand

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 15:19 | 5387020 PT
PT's picture

Now read some of the other links.

Wed, 10/29/2014 - 03:36 | 5388902 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

that's the problem: they are full of "it's evil" but I do not get the nuts and bolts of how, and who, and where

Agenda 21 is, at UN level, a "wish list" full of "best practices" from the point of view of our dear treehuggers. fine

but it's implementation needs national and local laws, and those can't be forced by the UN. so where are the local laws?

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 16:53 | 5387369 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

so, again, where is the evil of Agenda 21, exactly?

To turn the villages into multicultural shitholes, too.

To destroy the unique native architecture with a globalist architecture.

To build flats in villages, where people of foreign race and descent will be settled to destroy the rural communities.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 22:53 | 5388566 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

It is okay.  He's a Euro.  They do not understand liberty and never really have.  They have always had to have rules imposed on them from their betters.  Frankly, that is the reality.  They do have betters and everyone knows it.  The common European is likely to rape and pillage wantonly if he isn't controlled. 

To bad we over here go so caught up in what they were doing over there.  Now we have become like them, most of us anyway.  There is a minority who object but the masses just bah and move along. 

Wed, 10/29/2014 - 01:06 | 5388767 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

Let's not be too snide on teh Euros.

They had a hell of a mess to clean up for a while there, and coming from 'clean slate' cities it's pretty easy to master-plan starting with water, power, subways, trains, streets, sewers...then build around them.

Wed, 10/29/2014 - 03:50 | 5388913 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

OldPhart has put the finger in the wound. Our cities are old. Our agrarian landscape too. Our infrastructure... well, scrape the tarmac in some places, and you find a 2'000 year old Roman road

the biggest "zoning effort" in Europe was in the 19th century, where hundreds of rivers were tampered with their courses, for example, and most of our forests were zoned for reforestation

there is little "master plan", here, more a continuos, organic increment of ancient "master plans". we have lots of cities where there is no complete map of the sewers. London finds small, overbuilt rivers that were "lost", or just forgotten, from time to time. Around Rome, zoning laws go back to the ancient Romans

you have the young, "clean slate" cities, the fresh slate. in England, the first "zoning law" of William the Conquerer in 1066 was what is called the "New Forest", and one of the following was the forest in Nottingham where Robin of Sherwood used to prowl around. Yes, Robin was a "zoning law" rebel, living where deer was supposed to

Wed, 10/29/2014 - 11:46 | 5389956 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

That, and WWI/WWII obliterated many European cities...along with the infrastructure.  After bull-dozing and cleaning, the rebuild generally followed the old model, but modern improvements were incorporated.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 23:23 | 5388625 Oil_City_News
Oil_City_News's picture

@Save_America1st ... you asked for it...RE: Agenda 21

A New Global Partnership: Eradicate Poverty and Transform Economies through Sustainable Development

 

 

UN’s "Post-2015 Development Agenda" Morphed from "Agenda 21"

 

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/55695

scroll down to the list....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 11:58 | 5386204 Otto Zitte
Tue, 10/28/2014 - 10:02 | 5385758 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

nah. they are speculation. pure and simple. and this kind of speculation could even be kept benign, then at the end, it's just Chinese trying to find something private to store wealth (and gain status, aka "face")

but of course, for people that grew up in FIRE-obsessed economies this kind of developments looks... ghastly. monstrous. insane

but Florida was built this way, wasn't it? and China has a huge not-yet-fully-tapped reserve army of... peasants waiting their turn to enter the new global middle class. demanding it

current oversupply is not an indication of future underdemand. the guys that are buying those apartments are not doing it with a look to flipping them over in a few months. they want to keep them for at least a dozen years. and this is where the East clashes with the West: longest-term view meets shortest-term view

of course, where you have rampant speculation, things can become... tricky. we have seen that, haven't we? again, look at Florida when it grew in the beginning of the last century

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 10:37 | 5385896 Duffy Duck
Duffy Duck's picture

What do you have against making sense?

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 10:52 | 5385957 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

I thought me made perfect sense. Not sure what you mean ... unless you disagree ... which, if true, could be done a bit more constructively.

Regards,

Cooter

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 11:05 | 5385958 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

skepticism. but of course you have a fervent belief to oppose my skepticism... I could write a history of railroads based on the terrible crashes and financial problems they caused, and leave out what they brought. the Chinese Ghost cities are in part unsold and in part... sold. do you have solid numbers?

just look how silly the article is. a Goldman Analyst traveling around "Ghost Cities", asking verbal questions, getting vague answers, not checking if during weekends there are more people there, etc. etc.

I can take a Squid Analysis based on solid, checkable and certified numbers somewhat seriously. This is nothing comparable, I get better travel reports from my under-age god-children

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 17:05 | 5387413 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

You could learn history. For example about Marxism.

What China is doing is nothing new. Only the methods have changed.

The Communists in the Soviet Union deported millions of people into cities (the old misbelieve of Marxism, this mental illness, that humans would be only production factors and that 1 human + 1 human = 2 humans, although in reality 1 lving being + 1 living being = MORE than 2 lving beings).

With the great progress that the former farmers who were forced to become workers lost their roots, became addicted to alcohol, the families suffered tremendously, productivity was awful and accidents were exploding.

 

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 22:57 | 5388582 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

How many tens of millions were murdered in the process?

Wonder how that will translate when the time comes in China with their gigantic population.

Wed, 10/29/2014 - 02:04 | 5388810 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Florida is a different story. It is a destination state for vacations and retirees and all the building is aimed at that, even if they overshot it.

If you notice, these cities are all over the country. I would add that there are also ghost buildings and even neighborhoods in many of the established cities. The reason is that the Chinese have been playing with the new toy call "capitalism" as best they understand it. Unfortunately, they picked the wrong economic religion and went all-in on Keynesian economics.

Each governor is given a target GDP to hit each year. Like our flawed GDP it counts all money spent no matter how badly it is spent. The easiest way to hit GDP is just build stuff. Build, build some more and when done build more. On the good side they are replacing all the depressing gray watered down concrete with half the rebar commie era stuff. But, they are also building anywhere and anything they can. It is how they hit GDP. Unfortunately, as this article shows, the demand is a bit low and they were not built like Florida or Arizona because floods of people wanted to live there. They are a government make-GDP project. The government connected contractors get wealthy even with no demand.

This is the Chinese version of central planning and government stimulus. Whatever they do, they do big.

What this author should have also done is to go into those buildings and try to turn on the water, the electricity and the heat. My guess is he would have found it not working much of the time. He would also find that the roads do not get repaired if they get a pothole except by locals throwing gravel and rock in them. The construction crews are on the new end of the highway pushing through another five miles of GDP, er, road.

Wed, 10/29/2014 - 04:50 | 5388961 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Florida might be now a different story. I'm talking about Florida some 100 years ago

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:00 | 5385584 barre-de-rire
barre-de-rire's picture

before getting ebola, you must get a visa...

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:40 | 5385671 ThirteenthFloor
ThirteenthFloor's picture

They are empty, because they all moved here.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 11:30 | 5386088 PT
PT's picture

In "capitalist" US, empty homes are evenly distributed throughout the country.
In "communist" China, empty homes are stacked neatly into empty cities.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 12:58 | 5386460 PT
PT's picture

I thought Communists dealt with empty homes like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq__Z-Z_Ofs

( Start at 1 min 26 sec )

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 14:47 | 5386872 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

At least the Chinese "ghost" towns are new, empty, and relatively clean. The American "ghost" towns (Detroit, Chicago, NY, LA, St. Louis are just a few examples) are all a miserable mess AND are choke full of inhabitants (which are basically economic zombies)...

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 18:09 | 5387591 Smooth Criminal
Smooth Criminal's picture

No shit. I live a nice area of a Las Vegas suburb and the amount of Chinese home buyers the past couple of years has been insane.  They come here and pay cash for the homes (no money laundering going I'm sure...sarc/).  Just this year alone two more families from China have moved in on my street and I'm sure more are on the way. 

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:32 | 5385646 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

bullish

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 11:31 | 5386092 PT
PT's picture

If only the Chinese didn't have a minimum wage.  Then their workers could be paid less and those empty houses would be cheaper and then they could afford to buy them and they wouldn't be empty.  Or something.  Mises tolled me sew.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 17:56 | 5387561 NYPoke
NYPoke's picture

Bullish...and the dude on the scooter has THE best commute in China.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 11:19 | 5386046 wildbad
wildbad's picture

no cunttree for olde yuan

Wed, 10/29/2014 - 03:02 | 5388849 CASTBOUND
CASTBOUND's picture

my best friend's sister makes $80 /hour on the internet . She has been laid off for 7 months but last month her paycheck was $13987 just working on the internet for a few hours. visit site... www.Yelptrade.com

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:18 | 5385458 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

I'd love to more there...but there are no jobs.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:27 | 5385476 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

What's this "jobs" thing you say??

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:31 | 5385491 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

I know you're not suppose to do it for more than 29.5 hr/wk.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:39 | 5385506 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

You can always start a PM coin shop. There is a lot of demand for that in China.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:44 | 5385516 GetZeeGold
Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:49 | 5385539 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

Or sell these cities to preppers for a discount.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:02 | 5385588 barre-de-rire
barre-de-rire's picture

preppers are 1st to die.

 

( 3rd edition )

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 11:16 | 5385698 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

I know.

They would be the "bonus kill" like in the video games. lulz

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:39 | 5385669 Magnum
Magnum's picture

Wrong..  No shortage of bullion in China.  Even saw a few gold bars for sale at the bank foreign exchange window.  Retail gold shops empty.  Chinese aren't as interested as you may think.  I snapped a photo of gold bars for sale, gathering dust.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 12:04 | 5386244 ejmoosa
ejmoosa's picture

I did the same thing with Chevy Volts just last week in Georgia...

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:49 | 5385541 Bro of the Sorr...
Bro of the Sorrowful Figure's picture

plenty of jobs building and developing until the bubble pops. then you've got 50 million angry and unmployed chinese dudes.

 

silly government somehow thinks this type of spending is different than digging a hole and filling it back up.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 12:06 | 5386238 ejmoosa
ejmoosa's picture

If you are one of those working and living baycheck to paycheck, you won't care when things go bust.  You'll tell your friends how you saw it coming, getting paid for building stuff nobody wanted...

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 18:37 | 5387696 css1971
css1971's picture

Males outnumber females.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 23:00 | 5388587 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

More sordiers.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:20 | 5385462 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Well, it's good to have a summer home to go to, just in case there was a nuclear war or something...

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 10:58 | 5385982 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

The best home for that would be away from population centers with clean air/water. If I had money, China would be at the bottom of my list.

Honestly, if I had a rich uncle die (I don't have any rich uncles), I would take a hard look at either New Zealand or Iceland. Get me a pleasant spot of land, open up a bar with out TVs that has Shiner on tap, serves BBQ, souse, and maybe some semi-authentic coonass fair on the holidays, along with a lot of KHYI type music all day.

If the place stayed empty, I would be just as happy!

Regards,

Cooter

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 17:49 | 5387540 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

Last time I was in Costa Rica, I met a few expats that did just that.  Cost them nothing to put up the bar, they pay nothing in taxes, and live like kings off American tourists buying $8 beers that cost them $40 a keg.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:22 | 5385465 new game
new game's picture

eventually a peg for every hole. maybe with a middle class,ha...

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:23 | 5385468 BandGap
BandGap's picture

What a waste. More fodder for the story to be told in 50-100 years.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:27 | 5385475 GeorgeWKush
GeorgeWKush's picture

"government standard that says cities should have 10,000 people per square kilometer."

Fucking ridiculous. Who really want to live in such conditions?

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:30 | 5385487 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

You would prefer ten per square kilometer?

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:41 | 5385510 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Still seems a little high.  There are 5 of us (not counting animals) on the immediate 1,500 acres we call home...

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 13:21 | 5386532 tarabel
tarabel's picture

What a ghetto. You need to pick up a few acres so you have a little elbow room. Or else send the kids off to the brainwashing academy.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:50 | 5385538 GeorgeWKush
GeorgeWKush's picture

Ask yourself why people should be crammed together in beehives holding 10000 per km^2 or more. Is it because people like to live this way? Of course not, it is because it is economically efficient to stack people together like a bunch of animals. Even China, which has been seriously overpopulated for a long time, has less than 150 people per square km overall.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 10:33 | 5385875 Lea
Lea's picture

"Ask yourself why people should be crammed together in beehives holding 10000 per km^2 or more. Is it because people like to live this way? Of course not".

It's environmentally sound. If everyone, on the planet, spent resources like American drunken sailors, what with gardens, lawns, swimming pools, big houses to heat and light up (plus the TV set per room), the entire resources of the planet would be gobbled up in the space of one generation.

Second, humans have always LIKED being "crammed together like animals", since they are social animals. If neighbors might be a nuisance, loneliness is way worse. Look a the European middle-ages cities: people were even more crammed together than today. Which means, give humans half a chance and they will seek one another's company. Or alternatively, that safety lies in numbers.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 13:57 | 5386093 GeorgeWKush
GeorgeWKush's picture

I don't see why living less densely would imply that people also get swimming pools or bigger houses with extra TVs, I see that there might be a slightly higher cost of transport (and possibly heating) and considerably more use of land, but strictly speaking there are bigger environmental concerns, like the extreme consumption by the 1% elite and general overpopulation. There are currently so many other places to start if you want to do something about the environment.

"Second, humans have always LIKED being "crammed together like animals", since they are social animals."

There is a considerable difference between living in a traditional hunter-gatherer community with a couple of hundred people, and living together with half a million others in a gulag camp where people have to sleep on top of each other and shit in the same corner. 1000-2000 persons per km2 would be more than enough to keep people socialized and happy.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 18:35 | 5387685 css1971
css1971's picture

Living in a city doesn't have to be shit.

Cities designed for walking can be great places to live. Shit places to live are largely those which are designed for the car. Compare the old pre-car European cities with post car American ones.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 20:30 | 5388137 Zero-risk bias
Zero-risk bias's picture

Have not been to the US. In China there are those cities with actual history, where the central part has endured to an extent, making pleasant navigatable cities, on foot, by bike, board.. (with required breathing apparatus).

Then there are those cities, which naturally emerged as logistic hubs within the last several hundred years, as domestic infrastructure increased rapidly. They have just been completely razed, rewritten, and mimic the grided system of the US.

Some people tell me they like that, as you can easily naviagate cities that follow a uniform layout, but to my mind what you said is bang on, cities like this more often than not, are not places you want to be in.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:28 | 5385478 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

If this Ebola thing is the real deal you'll see nothing but ghost cities in the USA...

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 10:09 | 5385789 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

If this impending global thermonuclear war thing really gets started, you can bet that Ebola will be the last thing Americans are worried about.

And bears.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 10:26 | 5385846 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

bears with nukes? definitely something to fear

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 12:30 | 5386360 Elliott Eldrich
Elliott Eldrich's picture

I'll see that and raise: Bears with ebola. 

 

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 12:40 | 5386399 ebear
Tue, 10/28/2014 - 22:19 | 5388498 Wild Theories
Wild Theories's picture

ooh, now I have something to do for the weekend...

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:28 | 5385482 LostandFound
LostandFound's picture

Get to work Chinese, that centuries volume of cement you have imported in the last 2 years has a shelf life!

 

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:32 | 5385492 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

About two thousand years of we use Roman Standards.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 21:13 | 5388267 Four chan
Four chan's picture

why is that? those romans could really build to last.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:31 | 5385494 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

This is what has kept the commodity trade alive a few more years and you punks make fun of this?!

Stupid round eyes!

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:37 | 5385499 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

We need MOAR MOARTER

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:36 | 5385500 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

The debate continues as to how stable china really is. A big reason dropping house prices in China is so important is that is where almost 75% of household wealth is stored. Here in America a much larger share of household wealth, approximately 71% is stored in financial instruments. The end of the housing bubble in China has the potential to become a huge deflationary "house of cards." 

The country is already suffering from massive overcapacity. Much of the recent growth in China after 2008 came from a massive 6.6 trillion dollar stimulus program that expanded credit and poured massive amounts of money into the system. This money encouraged expansion and construction with little regard as to real demand or need.

For years the people of China have had the habit of saving much of what they earn but the low interest rates paid at banks has not rewarded savers. With few investment options much of this money has drifted towards housing and driven housing prices sky high. The economic efficiency of credit is beginning to collapse in China and the unwinding of China’s giant credit spree could be very painful. More in the article below.

http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2014/03/china-and-great-credit-trap.html

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:41 | 5385501 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

in other news,,everything is fvked beyond all possibility of repair.

 

I.ve got no hiding place.. oh my grace..

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:02 | 5385586 GetZeeGold
Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:39 | 5385509 reader2010
reader2010's picture

It's still better than wasting resources on killing people around the world. Shame on you, Washington. 

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:44 | 5385518 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

dead people dont use resources,,those are for the well connected not some useless eater..

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:42 | 5385681 Magnum
Magnum's picture

Agreed, and this article says people are slowly moving in...

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 10:12 | 5385795 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

It's almost human of them.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:44 | 5385523 Moski
Moski's picture

 Took the bullet train from Nanjing to Shanghai.  Long stretches filled with thousands and thousands of homes. Sun begins to set, getting dark, can't wait to see all those homes sparkling with lights.  Nope.  No one was home.

 

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 21:59 | 5388431 Freddie
Freddie's picture

One story single family or apt house/townhouse style.  Weird and kind of creepy.

I cannot understand how the Chinese think housing/buildings can be left empty and hold up.

With houses, you need suckers going to Home Depot and Lowes every Saturday buying shit so the place does not fall apart.  You can leave it for a while but closed buildings will get mold or worse. 

I guess they don't care.  Keep building new ones.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:46 | 5385526 syntaxterror
syntaxterror's picture

Why can't 'Murika build ghost cities too? Hell, Obola's Free Shit Army could even partially occupy the ghost cities.

Has anyone suggested this to Krugsman?

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:48 | 5385536 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

America has detroit.. no need

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:24 | 5385632 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Cities? You mean ghost suburbs.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:46 | 5385701 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

I'm starting to think we are.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:46 | 5385530 eddiebe
eddiebe's picture

More pictures please!

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:51 | 5385544 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

There are even youtube videos.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:48 | 5385531 SethDealer
SethDealer's picture

that does it, Im ordering Chinese food for lunch

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:49 | 5385537 SethDealer
SethDealer's picture

we have ghost city too, its called Detroit

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:52 | 5385549 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

and flint, youngstown, stlouis, camden, pittsburg ..know where i am going with this?

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 20:40 | 5388178 mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

"and flint, youngstown, stlouis, camden, pittsburg ..know where i am going with this?"

Ah, yes....ruins of an ancient jobs-creating civilization.   Forward!

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 21:21 | 5388289 Four chan
Four chan's picture

i live in detroit, and enjoy the low prices, and lack of policing, the fear of outsiders and blacks have created.

while the two coasts are killing themselves trying to afford life, i bought two houses free and clear right next

to each other with big yards for under 50k. i hope the masses never know what values is, but im not too worried.

now get back to work debt slaves.

 

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 11:35 | 5386106 syntaxterror
syntaxterror's picture

Detroit's a dead city. Like a dead mall. A ghost city is brand spanking new like a pair of rare air jordans that you keep in vacuum storage so that they'll look new in 20 years and be worth 1,000,000 Obamao Dolares.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 22:03 | 5388450 Freddie
Freddie's picture

I think Detroit and many others are zombie cities.  Without lots of stolen FIAT Obola Govt help - they would totally implode.   The people there are also for the most part zombies sustained by Uncle FIAT/EBT/WIC.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:49 | 5385543 eddiebe
eddiebe's picture

About all those empty cities: Maybe they have something planned that we don't know?

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:28 | 5385642 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I used to wonder about that too, until I learned that RE is one of the very few options Chinese have for investing. As always, all of that hot money has to go "somewhere."

They just need to package that shit up into some MBSes and create some more Triple A investment opportunities. Cuz that shit works wonders!

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 11:39 | 5386133 syntaxterror
syntaxterror's picture

If a had to choose between AAA-rated Chinese Ghost city MBS or a bundle of TWTR-TSLA-AMZN stawks, I'm not sure which one I would pick...

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:56 | 5385559 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

In a word: Very weird

But not that "weird" when you have that many indigenous people to contend with and a Western government that threatens your economy day and night to buy more of their currency and when you don't -sends it's Navy to your neighborhood!

Not that there is anything to compare this too in the U.S. but if you've never visited one of the most affluent set of commercial real-estate properties in the Washington D.C. metropolitan area you will see pocket(s) of buildings both new and old that line the beltway sitting idle with less than 25% occupancy!  Northern Virginia in particular has better than 3 million square feet of office space that is empty and growing...

So if it's slow in the Nation's Capital which is one of the most expensive places in the U.S. to live, what does the rest of the Country look like in the genre of "ghost towns"?...

Oh...

Trick or Treat!

 

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:21 | 5385612 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

The difference is that in Washinton, the Govt. will expand some agencies, lease the office space, hire legions of marginally literate ethnic types to fill them to move paper around and then claim that Govt. creates jobs.

The real good news is that we only have to pay for half of it because the rest goes on the tab that the Chinese pay for.

Nice and neat. No Chinese style malinvestment.

This is genius at work.

Never doubt Krugman. He is smarter than the rest of us.

"Hi, my name is Shaniquanaynay and I will be yo Obamacare facilitator."

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:29 | 5385645 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

The real good news is that we only have to pay for half of it because the rest goes on the tab that the Chinese pay for.

You raise some good points. But what happens when paying for the other half in that deal means shorting all of your reserves of "sound money"?... I know that should be easy when you've paid all of your life to own the "biggest stick" but now comes the hard part of using it when that other half is exceedingly less charitable given your action(s)!....

Fine line in defining insanity or stupidity.  And Paul Krugman is at the top of that list for making it all possible!

$trillion dollar platinum coin anyone?...

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 10:27 | 5385851 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

No problem.

Convince Indians that Treasuries make better wedding gifts than gold.

And throw in a few attack helicopters for the Govt. to help.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:55 | 5385564 FallenOne
FallenOne's picture

Thought it was chinese tradition to build or buy a home and never live in? it back in home country they go bigger and just build whole cities

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:01 | 5385579 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

Its for good luck.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 08:58 | 5385571 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Inspiration for Obama and the Fed. Obama can build ghost cities and the fed can print the money for it. 

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:03 | 5385591 Bumbu Sauce
Bumbu Sauce's picture

Obama's peeps turn fantastic populated cities of industry into ghost towns being plowed under for urban farmland.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 22:07 | 5388461 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Detroit is starting to look nice as it reverts to plains and farmland.  The destroyed homes get engulfed by trees and bushes.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:03 | 5385580 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

Odd how they build so many fancy things yet the tap water in any China city not safe to drink.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 18:27 | 5387657 css1971
css1971's picture

The tap water in my town just south of Berlin hasn't been safe to drink for 3 weeks.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:03 | 5385590 Bumbu Sauce
Bumbu Sauce's picture

The lies about China's ghost towns are lies!!!

They are all populated with good Party Members.

-Your local 50 cent party

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:04 | 5385592 Ban KKiller
Ban KKiller's picture

Long view anyone?

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:11 | 5385607 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Move to the ghost city and start a dollar store selling chinese shit to shit chinese?

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:26 | 5385638 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

"No pay dollah, fiddy cent. dollah to high."

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 10:02 | 5385766 BouncyTheWonderbunni
BouncyTheWonderbunni's picture

Thats dorrah fixed it for yah :)

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:25 | 5385636 muleskinner
muleskinner's picture

Simple solution, ship some of those 93 million murkans who can't find jobs, give them a place to live in those ghost cities at 10,000 inhabitants per square km. 9300 sq km is all you will need. Make it 10,000, some room for the air.  Sixty miles by sixty miles, and there will be 93,000,000 Americans sitting on couches in China. Not a problem.

 

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 10:19 | 5385828 Buster Cherry
Buster Cherry's picture

Yeah I just don't see China throwing the doors open for the e,amples of humanity displayed by Furgason, Missouri.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:25 | 5385637 khakuda
khakuda's picture

It looks like the Chinese Paris replaced the French girls and baguettes with smog.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 11:28 | 5386084 silentboom
silentboom's picture

That's because smug sounds a lot like smog in chinese.  Understandable mistake.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:28 | 5385640 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

"The couple of “ghost towns” we visited, while less desolate than some press reports would suggest, were indeed very quiet"

So how much Chinese ABS's is GS swimming around in trying to market to Pensions/401k/Coporate Treasury Dept/Muni Funds/State Funds/Savy Investors?

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:36 | 5385661 Debugas
Debugas's picture

people move to live where they can have a source of income

no income - no life

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:42 | 5385686 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

I wonder if some people were holding off to try and drive a better bargain?

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:51 | 5385720 PrecipiceWatching
PrecipiceWatching's picture

Lurking....... to see how "dumb", "fat", unsophisticated Americans are going to be blamed for this, by the usual Know-Nothing ZH punks.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:59 | 5385746 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Actually, we're pretty sure it is all your fault.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 10:37 | 5385899 PrecipiceWatching
PrecipiceWatching's picture

Why not?

 

Just throw it in the giant Stupid Americans hopper like so much of the "analysis" here.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 11:27 | 5386070 silentboom
silentboom's picture

Well I guess we could say that Americans voted for the fools who caused the massive trade imbalances which led to China being a rich country with massive productive output and us being a poor country with Kardashian output.  Happy now?

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 09:58 | 5385745 silverer
silverer's picture

For the next trick of the century, China should offer these empty cities to what's left of the productive middle class of America, to give them a place to escape to from the new confiscatory communist America. Once there, unfettered and un-harassed Americans would once again create tremendous wealth, that if managed properly by minimal government intervention, taxed fairly and not squandered by government like it is here, would place China #1 like a rocket.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 10:08 | 5385784 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

I'm thinking it would be a great opportunity to launch my Haggis-On-A-Stick franchise.

The Chinese are crazy about innovative Western foods.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 10:17 | 5385810 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Make sure and put lots of cheese on it.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 10:18 | 5385811 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

how do you stick Haggis on a stick without risking that it bursts? do you feed Haggis to a rat, first, and then put the rat on the stick? since you are there, why don't you encase the rat with butter and then fry the whole thing?

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 10:24 | 5385840 Peanut Butter E...
Peanut Butter Engineer's picture

You glue it to the stick with some surgar glues.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 10:28 | 5385853 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

ah, so you don't puncture the Haggis. too bad

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 10:37 | 5385892 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Nothing better than free R&D.

How about dipping the haggis in HFC syrup, butterflying the rat and sticking it to the haggis and frying it all with a tempura batter?

With a chile-paste and soy sauce dipping side, I think I'd have a winner.

Fusion food.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 11:17 | 5386041 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

With a sprinkling of toasted houseflies and mosquitoes.

Thu, 10/30/2014 - 23:20 | 5396803 Peanut Butter E...
Peanut Butter Engineer's picture

You should patent this formula and sell it to Wall Street make millions on IPO and the dump it as soon as it's crisp.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 10:34 | 5385884 Wild Theories
Wild Theories's picture

I'm glad my food is fully digested before I read your salivating suggestion for haggis couture

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 10:38 | 5385901 ersatz007
ersatz007's picture

encase it in lead & melamine

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 20:54 | 5388216 Casey Stengel
Casey Stengel's picture

You forgot the <sarc> tag. Live here for a year and you will see how funny your idea is. I love your idea, its just that China is not the place your looking for.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 22:13 | 5388478 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Some our best and brightest can be found on Saturdays in the fall with 110,000 other colleged edumacated idiots watching college ball games or being brainwashed by TV.  Fools.

Tue, 10/28/2014 - 10:02 | 5385764 Lostinfortwalton
Lostinfortwalton's picture

I have seen a lot of real state developments around Washington DC and its Maryland and Virginia 'burbs that  that look a whole lot worse than the ersatz Paris pictured.

Wed, 10/29/2014 - 06:29 | 5389028 PT
PT's picture

The revaluations allowed them to borrow more money.  Thus began the Ponzi.

Wed, 10/29/2014 - 06:31 | 5389030 PT
PT's picture

The inflation priced the non-Ponzis out of the game.
Ponzi or do without.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!