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Silver Coin Sales At US Mint Soar To Highest In Two Years
It never fails: any time there is a dump in precious metals through their paper representation (GLD, SLV, or futures) typically as a hedge to a rally in the dollar (because last week Japan materially increasing its fiat monetary base was also somehow negative for gold and silver) or to meet margin demands from cross-asset liquidation, demand for physical PMs soars confirming yet again that any connection between paper prices and physical demand no longer exists.
Whether it is China buying every ounce of gold it can find (whether to facilitate Commodity Funding Deals or to meet pure consumer or central bank demand), or US consumer rushing into retail outlets, the surge in physical metal buying is there like clockwork. Such as US Mint silver orders. As reported on Friday, sales of American Eagle silver coins by the U.S. Mint jumped 40 percent in October to the highest in 21 months, defying a slump in New York futures to the lowest in more than four years.
Sales surged to 5.79 million ounces, the most since January 2013, the month that set an all-time high at 7.5 million, Bloomberg reports. "Today, sales jumped 33 percent in one of the busiest times this year", Tom Jurkowsky, a spokesman at the Washington-based mint, said in an interview. Last month’s total was 4.14 million.
“We saw demand surge over the past two days,” Michael Kramer, the president of New York-based MTB Inc., a dealer authorized to purchase coins directly from the mint, said in a telephone interview. “Business was almost triple than what it has been over the past few months.”
Logically, as a result of the surge in physical demand, silver futures for December delivery dropped 1.9 percent to close at $16.106 an ounce on the Comex in New York. Earlier, the price touched $15.635, the lowest for a most-active contract since Feb. 25, 2010.
Because when it comes to precious metals, thanks to the BIS and the central banks, Paper beats Rock every time.
The flipside, of course, is that continued selling of paper metals provides buyers of physical metals with ever lower entry prices, even if, or rather especially if it means, that quite soon, if not already, most gold miners will be selling gold below production cost as we showed back in 2013.
Needless to say, it would be quite fitting of the New Normal for gold (and silver) miners to suffer a cascade of bankruptcies, ultimately leading to zero physical extraction of precious metals even as the relentess naked shorting of gold and silver paper pushes the price of the metail to triple digits, or lower.
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Stack On
And I just bought 20 Indian Head silver rounds instead of the silver Eagle bullion coin. What a mistake.
No mistake. Think how lucky we are that the gummint is subsidizing PMs.
It's no longer about price for me. The economy and financial controllers are reckless and I see no reason to trust ANY listed prices, either equities, bonds, or PM's. This ponzi is on a path to self destruction - that is a guarantee. Stacking as it implodes.
And I find the discussion about confiscation of PM's pretty silly, considering the easiest and most immediate path of confiscation during a crisis will be digital holdings like bank accounts, as happened in Cyprus. It is simply way easier to enter digital accounts and steal from there than it is to try to confiscate PM's from 1.5% of the population. All these trolls claiming confiscation will occur are missing the fact that, in an extreme crisis, they too will be stolen from and will have no say.
Can't happen in North America?
Read for yourself page 145 (pg 155 in pdf viewer) of the Canadian Economic Action Plan in 2013
http://www.budget.gc.ca/2013/doc/plan/budget2013-eng.pdf
Government prints tunsung........
No it's about morality, nothing else matters. Oh sure you could moral and starving or moral and dead, so fucking what. Fuk um'.
I thought the ZeroHedge comments section was rabidly anti-government..... and yet, here you guys are, celebrating the surge in US Mint Silver Coin sales.
The US Mint is offering the American Eagle 1 Ounce Silver Proof Coin for $52.95, which, according to this article, is experiencing record sales. With physical silver prices at record lows ($16/oz), the US Mint is absolutely FLEECING the American public and it shows in their annual report. Have you guys ever heard of SEIGNIORAGE? Seigniorage is profit paid to the "seigneur" or ruler, otherwise known as your FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
The 2014 annual report for the US Mint will be available in three months, and I suspect it will be a whopper. Until then, here is the 2013 Annual Report for the US Mint:
http://www.usmint.gov/downloads/about/annual_report/2013AnnualReport.pdf
Quick summary: the continuing crash of spot silver prices coupled the increase in US Mint silver bullion sales, enabled (in part) the US Mint to transfer $350 MILLION of seigniorage to the Treasury General Fund to support federal programs and reduce our debt (which is to say: fund federal programs). Over half of the seigniorage transfer to our "seigneur" or ruler, came from the sale of bullion and numismatic products - the Silver Eagle, for instance. Yes, your Silver Eagle purchase directly funds the federal government, the very entity you think you're pointing your middle finger to. With physical silver crashing even harder throughout 2014, I suspect the Treasury transfer for fiscal 2014 will be GIGANTIC.
So.....keep in mind, when you celebrate the surge of silver bullion American Eagle sales, what you're really celebrating is the FLEECING of the American Public. Silver spot prices have crashed, yet the retail price of these coins have actually gone UP. Accordingly, the amount of profit sent to your "seigneur" has skyrocketed. By purchasing the silver American Eagle, you're NOT holding your middle finger to the fiat ponzi masters... you're putting money in their pocket.
"The US Mint is offering the American Eagle 1 Ounce Silver Proof Coin for $52.95,"
Really? You really think the sales are for proof coins at $52.95 each? Really?
Whether you pay $52.95 for a proof coin or you go to APMEX and buy random year Silver Eagles for 25% over spot, just go to page 6/7 of the US Mint's Annual Report and decided which pie graph of profit and seignorage you feel better about.
"just go to page 6/7 of the US Mint's Annual Report and decided which pie graph of profit and seignorage you feel better about."
Just downloaded the 2013 report. The bullion coin and numismatic coin sales are broken out separately. I still don't see your point. You act as if those who self-identify as "stackers" on this forum are buying the proofs. I think that you would be wrong on that assumption. Totally wrong.
You do bring up a valid point though - there are always those out there willing to pay too much for anything. I cannot see the added value in a proof, uncirculated coin for the life of me. That is like someone offering a vintage baseball card for sale. I don't see the value in that either, yet at some auction where the idle rich congregate, someone will toss out big bucks for that rare card or other collectible. Go figure.
Yes, I do understand that most stackers are not buying the most expensive version of the Silver Eagle (SE) offered by the mint. They're buying the cheapest, the most mass-produced version and then burying it like a dog with a bone in their backyard.
I used the most expensive SE to better demonstrate seigniorage, which was the focus of my original post. Whether you're buying the most expensive SE proof coin or you're buying the cheapest mass produced SE coin from your local coin store, you are bidding on products sold by the federal government for profit which is funneled to the Treasury General Fund. This year and last year were hugely profitable for the federal government, and you were unwittingly a part of it. While you think you're doing something anti-government, you are actually directing supporting and funding it. Just because you buy the cheapest, most mass-produced version of the SE, you still play a part in page 6/7 of their annual report.
Collectively, from the most expensive version of the SE to the cheapest mass produced version of the SE, it's experiencing record sales and you guys are a big part of it.
Since the Government prints it's own money, the entire idea of "profit" is hilarious. Paper money is not real money. It is only perceived money, patterned tree bark that has been dried and stamped "official". Investors trading colored tree bark to the Government for silver (which, is, real, money!!!!) is the correct course of action. Let the Government have all the profit. It's a mirage and goes poof in hyperinflation.
The little troll is being disengenous, as usual.
He knows full well that stackers don't buy proof coins, and runs from his own position like a little girl when confronted with that.
People buy silver eagles at a bit over spot because they are legal tender $1 face value coins, and any retard who imports, sells, or makes fakes in the US is counterfeiting. Some dumbass in Ft. Collins was caught reselling these fakes on craigslist earlier this year, and the Secret Service stepped all over him. He thought he was just doing a little fraud, and had no clue a federal prison sentence was waiting for him.
It's too bad the Secret Service does not enforce the George Washington signed-into-law-and-never-repealed Coinage Act of 1792.
A few executions of mint officials for passing out slugs as currency certainly would make my day.
You're a complete idiot.
You think that just because you buy the cheaper silver eagles from your favorite local coin store that you're not funneling profits into the pocket of the Treasury. I can give you a link directly to the financials of the US Mint, and you still refuse to believe it.
Unreal.
Obviously you don't bother to read answers.
He's not here to learn, he's here to bloviate.
Apparently, all precious metal that is ever touched by a government agency must be disposed of as toxic waste, lest a government agency gets the opportunity to get soon to be worthless fiat currency for it.
Free clue for the retarded with poor reading skills: by selling all that silver to the public, instead of keeping it, the state is putting a gun to it's own head.
"The US Mint is offering the American Eagle 1 Ounce Silver Proof Coin for $52.95, which, according to this article, is experiencing record sales. With physical silver prices at record lows ($16/oz), the US Mint is absolutely FLEECING the American public and it shows in their annual report. "
That is a PROOF COIN, you knothead. It is considered to be of numismatic value (collector grade). Those out here in the real world know that its value will be lowered to whataever value the standard ASE fetches at some point in the future - which, by the way, is currently selling for $19.14 each at Texas Precious Metals if you buy between one and ninety-nine coins per transaction. Those folks are great to deal with. Currently, spot price for silver (on the world market) is $16.18. That is about a $3 premium for each coin - and is pretty much standard. Generic rounds (which they also sell - love me the Texas Silver Rounds) are at about a $2 premium above spot.
You really should learn something about numismatic versus bullion coin sales before you go spouting off.
No shit, sherlock.
As I told the honorable backwater redneck above, just go to page 6/7 of the US Mint's Annual report and decide which pie graph of profit and seigniorage you feel better about. You do understand that when you buy an American Eagle silver coin from your favorite local coin store, you are still supporting the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, right?......please tell me that you do understand this.....
Proof coin or otherwise, you are still supporting products sold for profit by the federal government. Go to page 6/7 and just point to the pie graph that you contributed to.
"No shit, sherlock."
I have already commented above.
Like I said, those who purchase silver (or gold, or platinum for that matter) coins for a hedge against inflation or for the zombie apocalypse are not buying the proof sets or singles. Those are being purchased by little old guys that think collecting coins is cool, and probably stamps too.
Your point is still lost on me - but that could simply be because I am stupid. I get it that some people are paying too much for a coin. I also see people that pay $25 for a burger at an upscale eatery, and think that they are so suave and debonair while flaunting their excesses. I think that we are "feeding the beast" in more ways than someone buying proof coinage.
"You do understand that when you buy an American Eagle silver coin from your favorite local coin store, you are still supporting the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, right?......please tell me that you do understand this....."
Yes, I understand this. Is there a government mint that you prefer we buy from? The Perth Mint, Canadian Maple Leafs perhaps? I DID mention that I also purchase generic rounds. But, when it comes time to "convert" the coin to either product or new fiat, it is usually better to deal with an easily recognized product -i.e. a coin issued by the government. Maybe we can just collect PM dust and press our own? What is your solution - to just ignore bullion coins as a whole?
ETA - I am also a (proud) backwater redneck. I don't pretend to be anything otherwise.
Cognac is a govvy troll who comes on here arguing at a slant. He once tried to convince everyone that GM wasn't channel stuffing their dealers, while glaring proof from the GM annual report itself proved otherwise. He done got a prollem.
An interesting question for the troll would be: Why does he care about my investments so much? Could it be because the massive silver sales are not what they want?
It's just too hilarious watching these trolls. The most transparent administration eva! Ya, at least obozo got that right. lmao
<removed by USGOV2257461989>
"While you think you're doing something anti-government, you are actually directing supporting and funding it. "
I do not buy silver bullion as an anti-government act. I buy it for an inflation hedge and as a barter item should I ever need it. Am I expecting imminent doom? Nope, but I also have six months of food put aside, and I have been busily reloading all of the free brass my local range allows me to pick up. I just like to be ready. I know that I will not be able to single-handedly crash the COMEX or LME. I don't care if they survive and prosper, or not. I just like to be prepared for any event that comes along. That is my job as head redneck of our household. If the government makes a little off of the vig between production costs and sales price, I really don't care. In fact, if they do, then they are probably the only government agency that is actually revenue positive. I do understand that I am paying "seigniorage" in the form of a premium above the absolute cost of raw materials and labor to produce the coin. That is the nature of the beast. I don't begrudge them the small profit that they are making. Even the company I buy from makes some income from their sales. Otherwise they wouldn't be offering their services. Now, I would be very unhappy if I hat to pay VAT above the coin cost. That is evil - much like the Federal Excise Taxes charged on certain goods -and then included in the calculation of sales tax. a tax on a tax, if you will.
I like the Canadian 1oz Maples that have a $5 face value.
If the world ever goes that far upside down, ya got 5 bucks vs a dollar.
I like the Canadian 1oz Maples that have a $5 face value.
If the world ever goes that far upside down, ya got 5 bucks vs a dollar.
I actually agree with the guy in a way. I rarely but eagles anymore purely because I don't like the usgov making any money off my stacking. All I care about is the silver content, and there are great 1 oz bars and coins available that are made by PRIVATE mints out there. I do keep a couple tubes of eagles around, but I typically don't buy them anymore. I like the PHM, and the maple as well, but mainly still to generic bars. Allowing this organization to have any more of your money is silly IMO. Do what y'all want, but id much rather have a private company make money off my stacking than the govt.
Well, it may be true that the mint makes a small profit of the sale of ASE and AGE. I too am stacking but with a different end goal in mind. My wife keeps asking me when if ever I'm going to sell my ASEs. I tell her "Never, I'm going to spend it." She looks at me funny and then I have to explain to her once again how it is already US money produced by the mint.
American Silver Eagles are $1 because the US mint stamped that value on it. All I have to do is convince someone to sell me that used Ducati motorcycle I've always wanted for $200 in American Gold Eagles. Write up the bill of sale for $200 and I'll pay him $200.
You only have to pay income tax on bullion when you sell it for Federal Reserve Notes. Not when spend it for face value like the US money that it is. Never ever turn it back into Federal Reserve Notes, just spend it directly.
Yup, this is an amusing dodge that coin dealers use in some jurisdictions.
Since you are trading fiat for something that is officially currency, no sales tax applies unless your local .gov writes in an exception for coin dealers.
"When you walk in a dream but know you're not dreaming si seniore', Scuzza me, but you see back in old Napoli that's Amore..."
Nope-1004- I'm asuming you meant this.
The Government proposes to implement a ?bail-in? regime for systemically important banks. This regime will be designed to ensure that, in the unlikely event that a systemically important bank depletes its capital, the bank can be recapitalized and returned to viability through the very rapid conversion of certain bank liabilities into regulatory capital. This will reduce risks for taxpayers. The Government will consult stakeholders on how best to implement a bail-in regime in Canada."
What's even better is page 148/158 which states the following-
Keeping Taxes Low for Job-Creating Businesses
A Competitive Business Tax System
A competitive business tax system plays a key role in supporting businesses in all sectors of the Canadian economy to invest, grow and thrive. The Government has implemented broad-based tax reductions that support investment and growth, and is delivering more than $60 billion of tax relief to job-creating businesses over 2008–09 and the following five fiscal years.
To spur investment and productivity, the Government has taken the following key actions:
The federal general corporate income tax rate was reduced to 15 per cent in 2012 from 21 per cent in 2007, and the corporate surtax that represented an additional 1.12 percentage points was eliminated in 2008 for all corporations.
The federal capital tax was eliminated in 2006. The Government also provided a temporary financial incentive to encourage the provinces to eliminate their general capital taxes, or to otherwise replace their capital taxes on financial institutions with a minimum tax. The last provincial general capital tax was eliminated in 2012.
The small business tax rate was reduced to 11 per cent in 2008 from 12 per cent in 2007, and the amount of income eligible for this lower rate was increased to $500,000 in 2009.
Yes, but why do you need to assume when I gave the page number? Is it that obscure?
"in the unlikely event that a systemically important bank depletes its capital, the bank can be recapitalized and returned to viability through the very rapid conversion of certain bank liabilities into regulatory capital."
Translation: Deposits will be stolen.
"This will reduce risks for taxpayers."
Translation: I close my statement by misleading the numb and lying, as any logical thinker can analyze and surmise that there aren't very many "taxpayers" that are not "depositors".
A taxpayer needs an account, do they not? If so, then how exactly is risk reduced to taxpayers when your account is pilfered?
The bankers are insolvent, greedy, inept, misleading, fcking liars. The government of canada sold itself out to criminal Wall Street. Stupid.
No it is not obscure at all. They talk out of both sides of their asses. Full faith and credit of the nation a government chooses to rape. This only stops when full faith and credit is dependent upon if their actions result in theses peoples heads between a blade, a block and a basket.
When the government fears the people you have peace.
When the people fear the government you have tyranny.
edit- this is why is put a page number ref.
Read for yourself page 145 (pg 155 in pdf viewer) of the Canadian Economic Action Plan in 2013
Do they plan to at least remove the management of those "systemically important banks"? Or will they just give themselves big bonuses when they get bailed out?
"No mistake. Think how lucky we are that the gummint is subsidizing PMs."
Your grandkids' money at work.
China thanks 'Merica for subsidizing its purchases of PM, Oil, Copper and other commodities. And for shopping at Walmart, Target, Sam's, Costco, etc.
Round Eye sure is taking it in the Dumb Eye. Don't it make your Brown Eye blue? /sarc
I've bought silver at $5 an ounce, I've bought silver at $35 an ounce, and I sleep just fine.
I bought at $32 all the way down and I keep buying, fuck em.
I started in 1970 when it was $1 an ounce... And I still buy a hundred ounce bar once every week or two... It's a moral thing...
insurance companies must be pissed due to all the claims on boating accidents.
The problem with filing a claim on your lost bullion is that if you are paid by the Insurance company then your lost bullion becomes their legal property and you lose all salvage claims. It's just like when they total you car and it then becomes their car.
Take an additional boating safety class, sure. File a insurance claim at your own peril.
Tangible money on sale.
Well, that explains it--Goldmember is now a silver investor and is buying everything trying to corner the market.
I wonder when we will see the ad with a person in a silver suit pointing to another in a gold suit saying "buy more gold"?
Or perhaps I am just hoping people realize they are buying the wrong kind of insurance. None other than Alan Greenspan is saying the same thing! Get a grip, ye muppets! ;-)
Liquidate float scam financial assets and buy physical gold. Let them load up on their ponzis. Physical cash and physical gold is all you need.
"any time there is a dump in precious metals through their paper representation.... demand for physical PMs soars confirming yet again that any connection between paper prices and physical demand no longer exists."
confused....
Prices ought to drop due to lack of demand. The paradox is that the lower the price, the more demand there is.
in the old days we called that being "on sale" and there was a very definite connection
i been telling ya'll now for almost 8 years...
it is Silver that they r most in fear of because it is in the reach of even the serfs formally of the now dead middle class...
they have been trying to destroy the FACT that it is REAL MONEY since the crime of 1873...
the power to destroy their fraudulent and destructive fractional reserve ponzi paradigm resides in the hands of every common man, woman, and child...
step away from their debt coupon dollars to the greatest extent...and then view genuine Liberty and Freedom for the first time in a very long while...
DEATH TO THE MONEYCHANGERS....
I feel the moment is coming.
+100 Kaiser and it's why my username is what it is and why silver is so much more important than gold. The FOFOA douches can keep their gold and live under the next tyranny the central banks create. We have an advantage here with silver because the elite dickbags stopped considering it money decades ago.
Money for the people indeed...
i find comfort in knowing that i am not alone in my understanding and resolve...
i wish you and all the other COMRADES in SILVER ARMS peace, safety, and prosperity in the very dark days to come...
And the same to you comrade!
Silver Bitchez!
Hill Billy traders averaging down in a bear mkt. Anyone notice Sprott is sounding scared, Maguire crazy. someone is going to get the anchor dropped in the old Bumbay.
Macguire is a trader. I can understand someone being shrill in a market where manipulation is the name of the game. If I had to earn my money surviving in such a market, especially when your not a member of the club, I would be hysterical as well. Sprott's fear is understandable. Many of his PM and PM related equity funds have been hammered. But it's his physical backed funds which I believe is causing him the most worry. Staying with silver, the cheaper silver gets, the cheaper it becomes for a major entity to come in and buy into his silver fund and snatch up a giant portion of it. As long as your holding enough shares above the redemption threshold, you can redeem your shares for the physical silver whenever you want. All you have to do is order the Brinks truck(s). He sees how high the current OI is in silver, and it is more then obvious that there is a major entity (which some believe is China) involved which is immune to financial pain and is looking more and more likely it plans to stand for delivery.
Last weeks price smash did nothing to lower the OI. On the contrary, it rose by thousands of contracts! It looks like we may have a put up or shut up event come December. If the Comex has to deliver, it may need to fork over up to 90%+ (!) of annual worldwide silver production! If instead, the Comex balks and settles contracts for cash only, (which may well be another reason, if not the main one, why said entity is holding so strongly) that major entity may immediately turn to the next known source of easy physical....and Sprott will be in the crosshairs.
I rarely post here but I logged in today just to say AMEN!
Indeed, SIM & Kaiser.
Thanks Kaiser Sousa,
L Frank Baum tried to tell us about that power in the Wizard of Oz. We've had the power the entire time we were meandering down that yellow brick road wearing our silver slippers.
http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/08.11/silvershoes.html
Silver Stackers Can End The Silver Manipulation And Stop The Criminal Banksters
Physical silver is the stake in the hearts of the financial vampires
Physical silver is the bullet that slays the wall street werewolves
Silver For The People
you know it bro...
its all right there for the masses to c if they were only capable of accepting that they have been lied to and deceived in order to be enslaved by sociopaths...
it is unfortunate and quite sad that the majority march willing into the monetary gas chambers long ago prepared for them by the Rothchilds and their piece of shit brethren...
all we can do is protect ourselves and those we care for that have embraced enlightenment...still - very sad.
What's really sad is when you try to bring these things to light in a straight forward (god i hate that word now) way people just gloss over in the eyes and/or their normalcy bias kicks in.
Its the weirdest human pshycological phenomenon. Even animals in the wild get quiet when there was a eclipse of the sun a while back. they sensed something was off and just headed for cover and kept real quiet.
Humans today just refuse to admit to themselves that they have been duped and defeatedly accept their prison.
In a way it is very much like the Matrix. Its best to awaken them while they are young. If too old some will not accept it and go crazy. Others will betray you because the truth is to real of a reality that they want to return to the dream world; i.e.-Cypher. Some aren't ready to wake up. Some are so hopelessly addicted to the system that they will do anything to protect it. Anyone is a potential agent and they will never stop.
Like they say- "Ignorance is Bliss"
every movie aint just a movie...
the Matrix is real in more ways than one!
and yes, those still unplugged will eventually be your enemy..
Red pill every time!
It ain't a lot of fun to "wake up" when you're 50 and realize you've been lied to all your life.
Honestly, it isn't fun no matter what age you wake up.
As a bonus, the younger you are, the more likely the truth will drive you utterly fruitbatshit insane.
Goldstein- actually i would think that the younger you are would be easier. as adults we build up certain "truths" we cling to. the more you rely upon and or believe them the harder it is when you awaken to find yourself questioning everything you've come to believe rather than learning a better way as a kid who doesn't know what he doesn't know.
Would you be more pissed off to learn that you have been lied to your entire life or learn from an early age that teevee is propaganda bullshit, verify what you hear and read for yourself, the public education is bullshit with a government agenda, never trust the government, the police are not always here to help you and the real definition of money.
Its a bitch either way!
"Paper beats Rock every time."
When do we get to change the name of the game to rock, paper, nailguns?
Ted Butler: http://youtu.be/i0fRCu1PDsA
Do you have a summary in 100 words? He rambles on for 45 minutes. I gave up listening to him in 2009 when he was pronouncing his pathetic faith in Garry Gentsler and Bart Chiltdown.
45 whole minutes?
rock, paper, nailgun, spock
I'm calling snowplough!
Russia, China and India should make the COMEX blow up by buying massive phiscial and paper contracts. Then demand physical delivery of the contracts.
Since the COMEX over-subscribes 100:1 ounce it will make it so the COMEX is unable to deliver and defaults. This will reveal the COMEX PM Ponzi scheme.
I often think the same. What is holding them back? The only thing that I can think of is that it might cause outright war. Two years ago I was having lunch with a guy who was looking to buy a house in London. He reckond he was a billionaire and I had no reason to doubt him. I posed the same question, why not corner the market. He responded "what, like the hunt brothers, no thank you, I don't want to be the richest man in the graveyard". Guess he knows lots about jumping off high floors, nail guns and snowploughs!
Why would the buyers of precious metals want to end price suppression? China, Russia, and India benefit from low prices. They won't want prices to rise until they decide they have enough gold to back their currencies and decide to kill the dollar.
In the new Keanu Reeves movie 'John Wick', gold coins are the method of payment for illicit services (cleaners, stays at the safe hotel, etc.) This isn't accidental, I'm sure, but I'm trying to decide if its socializing gold as a valid currency, or socializing it as a 'criminal currency' convincing the public that owning it is somehow 'shady'. But I don't think it's an accident, any more than the fact that the bad guys in both John Wick and The Equalizer are Russian.
Well, last week we had that old goat greenspam telling us, or them, that it's good to own some gold. I doubt he is trying to get his cronies in hot water, so for those smart(or dumb) enough to listen to that old relic who still has connections.......I would say it's still on the valid side.
And silver bar payments in looper. No accident at all.
Well Greenspan is a criminal
It is being portrayed as the currency of criminals. Looks for a barrage of articles with criminals evading the banking system by transacting in gold & silver.
It's all because Tim Cook came out
It's all faggot fun-and-games until an Apple-connected facility in the 3rd world gets bombed or arsoned by islamists just because it's a 'gay' company.
Bet Timmy girl won't like that blood on his hands.
There's no greater feeling than the twinge in your back from dragging out the strong box.
It ain't heavy, it's my hope chest.
+1 for the hippie song reference mangling
AE 9/11 Truth researchers plan lawsuit to seek release of 500,000 documents held by FEMA, NIST
I agree with your message, but stop spamming every damn thread with it.
If the price gets a 15 handle I'm buying my full month worth of purchases on Wednesday, in the form of one 100 ounce bar. If it holds between 16 and 16.65 I will be dropping 750$ on Wednesday and another 750$ on the 20th. If it breaks above 16.65 then it will be 500$ on Wednesday and 750 on the 20th. My fingers are crossed for a 15 handle, it will be my first 100 ounce bar. Either way I'm loving being able to use some of my dry powder.
Who gives a fuck how much you buy on Wednesday. Douche
QQQBall,
Fuck off asshole. I care whos buying investments, im invested in.
RIPS
Personally id stay away from 100 oz bars. If you had to sell it back to an lcs, it is reported to the irs. Stick with 10s, imho.
Thanks, never knew that. I’ll certainly take that into consideration in the future. I have plenty of 10's, it would be nice to have a few 100's for the novelty. Frankly I will probably pay capital gains when I do sell them. They give you 5 for murder and life for tax evasion. Great information though.
So at what level must Gold be reported?
1 ounce?
We do get these asshoes more and more frequently lately.
What make that movie more real than real is Neo's Drivers Licsense expires on 9/11/01. There are no coincidences.
http://www.cremationofcare.com/latest_headlines_18082008.htm
http://imgur.com/mAmWI
Not that I really need to explain myself, but there are a lot of silver investors on here buying for the right reasons. The recent price action can give people cold feet about investing just when it is most important. This latest hit has put me into the red like I'm sure a lot of others are. So my point of explaining what I was buying was to show resolve even though the price has come down, and to show those that might be frustrated that there are plenty in the same boat.
I'll let everyone else determine who the douche is, but care to explain such a violent response? Bored and just want to say stuff that you could never do in person without getting your ass handed ot you? Well I guess even pussies need a place to vent.
BWH,
Stack on.
Pay no attention to this pussy vent...aka quiff.
I am sitting here thinking about buying more...not sure to pull trigger now or upon open....or this week...or ?
Your feedback is a appreciated.
RIPS
Deathrips. Thanks, not sure but I have seen a lot of people hostile towards stackers on a lot of sites. Guessing its just scorned women mad about losing some money on paper.
I've made up a spreadsheet that has me buy more as the price goes down based on my average purchase price. A always buy on the 20th of each month and on the fifth if the spreadsheet indicates that I am to buy twice a month. To compensate for inflation it increases as my base salary increases.
I use a similar system for purchasing stocks only it also includes Bollinger bands. Its an in twice on lower BB crosses and one out on an upper cross. I only buy VT vanguard stock ETF. It has had me out since S&P 1800.
These systems take the guess work out of it, which is just unneeded stress in my opinion. When I first started buying silver I tried to read the market and find good entry points, and it allowed me to blame myself for bad purchase points. Following a system like I have in place now takes the guess work out of it. It also has me sitting on a lot of dry powder and I think it will come in handy over the next year. Certainly is now for silver.
Thanks for the input and good luck hitting the bottom.
Guy thinks your his mom.
The smaller your denomination the more liquid it is and the easier to handle/hide and trade. I never buy anything above 1oz, either gold or silver.
I don't disagree with the point just saying it feels great holding the gold 50 pesos in your hand.
1 ounce silver takes up a lot of room though, and space in a TL 15 safe isn't cheap. I have a fair amount of 1 ounce 10 ounce and 1 kilo, no 100 ounce though. I've even thought about good delivery bars, but they are a little too bulky and the price at one shot is a bit much. I do prefer 10 ounce the most though, not a fan of the kilo, but if nothing else I would like a 100 ounce just to have one. With my buying schedule unless it stays 15 and below I won’t be getting them for long and turning back to the 10 ounce. I also keep a fair amount of 1 ounce for liquidity purposes. Good points all, especially the point about 100 ounce bars being reportable to the IRS.
No junk silver? I've got a bunch I bought off a dealer who told me "condition doesn't matter because the melt value is so high." I said nothing but later found out that a lot don't agree with that. So I started separating my coins according to condition. I was shocked at how many were in extremely good condition. Then checked on the net and they are bringing a premium, though not much.
That premium is likely to go up so I'm glad I bought some junk.
Looks to me like there is plenty of metal available and plenty of buyers. It is interesting that there is so much demand for something that is falling in price.
Because people don't buy items which are on sale?
Sometimes they do but usually things are put on "sale" because the asking price isn't working. Sometimes even the sale price is not low enough.
"Sometimes they do but usually things are put on "sale" because the asking price isn't working."
Fair enough but that's no reason to express surprise that folks buy on price dips. In fact, it's a good explanation as to why people do buy when prices are lower.
"Sometimes even the sale price is not low enough."
US Mint seems to be doing some business at this level.
Billy the Poet US Mint seems to be doing some business at this level.
----
Quite frankly, the people that buy direct from the US Mint are paying too much. I know, I once bought some. The US Mint sells their coins at a premium (since they are generally uncirculated). But PM buyers generally are buying for metal content.
So I can get ripped off by buying a silver eagle for $44 at the US Mint or
I can buy an eagle at a dealer for about $21.
Anyway the main point is that the claim of record demand really means nothing. It isn't raising prices.
"Anyway the main point is that the claim of record demand really means nothing. It isn't raising prices."
Despite the fact that high US Mint silver sales are happening concurrently with a falling price doesn't mean that these sales "means nothing." Just like any other event it has an effect on subsequent events and is itself dependent on previous events. These sales are not happening in a vacuum. Of course, just what higher Mint sales, lower prices and a myriad of other related events do "mean" is open to interpretation.
Record demand means the despite the crash sentiment on the street is positive for PMs. As for demand for physical raising prices, well it is something like 100 fake oz for every physical oz.
A silver eagle is worth more than a silver round from a private mint or a silver bar because the U.S. Mint has certified the weight and content, eliminating the buyer's need to test.
wrs1 Sometimes they do but usually things are put on "sale" because the asking price isn't working. Sometimes even the sale price is not low enough.
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Very good wrs1. And wait till the economy really collapses and they still need to use fiat for every day needs because the US dollar has at least several years left.
Just in this crappy economy, I've run into many that had to sell their stash to make ends meet because they lost their job.
My projection is minimal silver $15/0z and more likely below 10/oz. Gold below 1000/oz. Quite frankly, the best investment right now is ammo - period.
"If the price gets a 15 handle I'm buying my full month worth of purchases on Wednesday, in the form of one 100 ounce bar."
Try buying some. The physical is above spot for silver. The demand must be high.
People are starting to figure out the central bank's Ponzi printing show will end in a disaster.
In that vein, I'm curious as to why AG is being sold at all.
You are confusing wholesale (what you call "paper" price) with retail.
Do you think you can buy a bushel of soybeans at the CME settlement price? Can you go to Home Depot and buy 1000 board feet of lumber for the CME settlement price, where the 110,000 board feet contract is quoted per 1000 board feet?
Of course you don't. Nor do you call those CME prices the "paper" soybean price or "paper" lumber price. Why do you then equate the COMEX price, which is based on a 5000 oz good delivery ingot, albeit quoted on a per ounce basis, to what you have to pay for a one ounce coin at your local or online dealer? Do you think Sprott pays the same price as you? If you buy size you pay spot plus a tiny spread. Oh, and in every market, not just PMs, there are non-producers and non-users in the OI. They are called "speculators". They provide liquidity so that something is there when producers and users come to market they can hedge.
Ingots have to be transported. Then melted. Then stamped/minted into ounce coins. Then shipped to your dealer, who has overhead to cover and expects to make a profit. If he doesn't hedge his inventory, he even tries to expand premiums after a sharp fall in the silver price. Haven't you noticed yet that after each and every one of these downdrafts from $48, the premiums eventually come in and reflect a price much closer to the new spot?
"Record" sales from mints, of one ounce coins, says one thing quite clearly: retail is buying. Maybe retail is the new smart money. Maybe not.
Poor lakes in America, filling up with worthless AG.
And all those overworked reverse gears.
All Fiats go to 0. The federal reserve's next ponzi game once the yen and dollar crashes is IMF SDRs. Backed by nothing are eventually worth nothing.
From one fiat to another. With significant losses in transferring to IMF SDRs.
The problem with SDRs is that the only people backing the IMF now are bankrupt themselves. Ask the BRICs if they plan to participate. If not the SDR is a miscarriage that will never even see the light of day.
If they get to control it, they are all in.
Don't forget the G20 ulitmatum to the IMF runs out this December, and the
Brisbane meet is pivotal to how a reset will go down(under).
Fiftybagger,
They tried to roll out the SDR in the initial name calling in Ukraine, i think it was to pay for oil debts from the Ukriaine through the IMF. It failed. I agree that they are bankrupt and are looking for another medium that they can print and the common man "should' earn.
Any thoughts on silver price here? I have an itchy trigger finger and the truck is idling.
RIPS
We have been stacking in the high 15's. If we go lower we will stack even more :-)
Given the change in price over the last five uears, this chart shows greatly reduced dollar purchases. i. e. stackers giving up
Is an SDR backed by anything?
or is it another fiat?
Do pigs fly?
Does the pope have a balcony?
Here's my simple question which I asked a few days ago: Are we able to exchange gold/silver for goods, as long as the receiving party accepts PM as payment? Someone, a few days ago, recalled buying a house with a pound of gold. Is this possible today, and if not, why not?
I guess I'm wondering if there's a market for my PM -- a liquid market -- and also, if this sort of exchange is legal.
Any increase in the value of the PMs since time of purchase incurs a 28% collectibles tax if held over one year.
you can exchange anything for anything. barter is legal. the problem is what dollar value are you assigning your trade. it has to be assigned a dollar value and it has to reflect market value. so, on the one hand, as a math exercise, the irs will probably not see a random ridiculous valuation and you could always plead ignorance without punishment. they just want their money. on the other hand, it doesn't matter what you trade for what except small personal transactions are anonymous but advertise you are the one with the silver and gold, not an envious position in a predatory world.
there was a case where a guy was paying his employees in usa silver coin and witholding taxes at face value. i think he partially got away with it. google it.
Boodles part of the reason I stick with US Minted Bullion is because there's a ton of tricks you can end up playing me thinks...
an ASE is a $1 coin and a gold buff/eagle is a $50 coin.
I could pay for a house with 20OZs of gold and the record purchase price could be $1000 as long as I paid the man in buffs or eagles. See my point? The other amazing thing about these items is they are all IRS exempt (this is why ASEs are so fucking expensive imo) and the dealer can actually get in trouble with the IRS if he reports the sale because it's extra paperwork the IRS doesn't need. Stick with US Minted stuff so you can keep the IRS exemption and play games with the face value of the coins when the time comes.
Average median home right now is around 200k if the POG goes to 20k and the home stays at 200k then I can pay someone 10 Gold Buffs for it and while technically i'll be giving him $500 for his home on the record he in turn gets $200k in gold he can sell off in 21 installments and avoid having to report any of it lol...
Bottom line is there's so many tricks and loopholes and backdoor deals you can get away with when you have metal that you cannot do with paper that I don't really bother to think about it all that much but sticking with IRS exempt and US Minted coins can really open up a world of funny bullshit...
Table 16-1. What Is Your Maximum Capital Gain Rate?
IF your net capital gain is from ... THEN your
maximum capital
gain rate is ...
a collectibles gain 28%
Collectibles gain or loss. This is gain or loss from the sale or trade of a work of art, rug, antique, metal (such as gold, silver, and platinum bullion), gem, stamp, coin, or alcoholic beverage held more than 1 year.
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p17/ch16.html
Eagles are exempt from reporting by the seller but they are not tax exempt.
Ron Paul Bill Seeks Coin and Bullion Tax Ban
by CoinNews.net on December 14, 2009 · 4 comments
Coin Legislation on Capital BuildingCongressman Ron Paul [R-TX] on Wednesday introduced legislation that would, if signed into law, end taxes on coins and bullion and repeal legal tender laws. The bill’s lofty goal is to reintroduce a system of competing currencies.
http://www.coinnews.net/2009/12/14/ron-paul-bill-seeks-coin-and-bullion-...
SilverisMoney, while I agree with your sentiments I must strongly condemn your advice. The only reason to sell $200,000 worth of PMs in 21 installments is to avoid the 10 grand reporting requirements by keeping just under that figure. Only problem is that just might be seen as structuring and that will get them in hot water with the tax man.
Also might get you a visit from the friendly tax man and he will get you jumping through a fun game called a full audit (for as many years back as he can). then he might play that game every year hereafter to make an example of you. Just the costs of good accounting advice and tax lawyers to minimise how badly you lose at the taxmans games will cost you plenty of time and money.
This one one reason why I sick with 90% US coins; Legal tender. Second easily recognizable by common man. Third easily divisible.
My coin guy says the coins are also treated differently than paper money for sales taxes. So, even the gov admits what real money is...
My icon used to be a silver dollar. I switched Dale as a nod to the conspiracy theories and to Tyler's icon.
Its good to see a nice silver conversation, without some troll in our midst. :-)
It depends on what "legal" means. If you are a member of the elite class you can pretty much do what you like. If you are a member of the upper middle class or lesser classes you are no longer guaranteed rights within a legal system. A legal system for you no longer exists.
Of course it's legal, but the question is really whether it is taxable. Under certainly narrowly-defined like-for-like trades, there is no tax liability. Gold for house is not like-for-like and thus is fully taxable.
One pound of gold is currently worth $17104.40. Can't buy a house with that, except in Detroit.
Stop being an idiot! That's NOT the point.
Read his question and try to contribute something meaningful to the conversation.
And, in any case the value of a pound of gold (based on it being $1,173/oz) is actually $14,076 (there are 12 troy ounces in a pound)
You lack of education is very obvious.
I was converting to pounds avoirdupois (i.e., the pounds on your bathroom scale). I know very well how many ounces are in a troy pound. But nobody ever uses troy pounds.
Your lack of thought is very obvious. The fact remains that you can't buy a house with a pound of gold, and you won't be able to unless (a) the housing market crashes or (b) gold goes parabolic.
At 16 dollars, the 250 million ounces of silver mined each year which is available for investment costs 4 billion dollars. A QE rounding error. Keep digging banksters. Give us a holler when you need us to start shoveling the dirt over you :-)
Silver For The People
Your money is belongs to me ..no more "in God we trust "
One dollar note weighs one gram therefore paper is vslued at a dollar a gram.
Yet silver can be bought for less than 60c a gram.
History will have some explaing to do because this is brazen bullshit and nothing else.
So, that would mean that one hundred dollar note is "worth" a hundred dollars a gram.
Now that's profit!
I gotta get into that business; it's like a license to print money! (It's probably illegal though)
A lot of gold is a side-effect of producing copper, and a lot of silver is a side-effect of producing gold, so even at very low prices there would be a trickle of new production. And it's not a sudden wall, a few less-rich mines are turned off first, then more and more - though even mining companies may look at the market and decide to turn stuff off earlier, hoping for a return to higher prices. But right now, in spite of China, India, and Russia, apparently the physical supply of gold is more than demand, and the physical supply of silver way more. Hard decisions by the mining companies.
PM charts suggest at least another small step down, and no real resistance. My real question is where is the botton on oil, as long as oil keeps weakening so will PM, but if oil finally stabilizes I'm not sure PM will stop.
Finally the dollar strength keeps rising so the price of PM (and oil) in dollars goes down, and some people are speculating that the dollar could get much stronger yet.
The financial uncertainties in the world right now are I think the greatest since 2008 at least.
The price of oil in $ really has nothing to do with $ strength because oil is priced in $ and the US is the largest consumer of oil. This $ vs. commodities relationship is a canard. Just look at NG and the $, the price of NG has nothing to do with the value of the $.
I think the financial uncertainty point is really what we are experiencing here. However, what is most needed to keep things going, $ or oil? The uncertainty is about what the exchange value of things really is. The funny thing is that stocks are probably the least necessary thing and yet they are the most expensive right now.
i don't think it would be an accident if the people with the greatest demand for physical gold and silver are probably involved in pounding the price for paper proxies of pms and keeping them at cost of production(zero margin) prices. i believe they are doing the same thing with oil.
it is just too simple and beneficial not to do it.
Gold and silver aren't needed in everyday life. Cessation of production wouldn't be much loss in gold but might cause problems in silver. Oil on the other hand is consumed almost as quickly as it's produced, if there is no profit in producing it, the world is in trouble. There will always be profit in producing oil or the lights won't be on and the trains won't move.
Get your head out of your ass bro Silver is in fucking everything including the keyboard you're typing on right now... aren't neeeded in everyday life? Gold maybe... Silver is one of the most consumed metals on the planet it's in hundreds of items in your home right now.
I buy maybe one computer every three years, big deal. Like I said, a cessation of silver production might be noticed but not gold. I know that some silver was used to solder in my new evaporater coil on my refrigerator on Thursday but not sure where else any has been consumed or used by me in the last week. Please don't refer back to electronics as that is lame. I also am not a consmer of colloidal silver in case you were thinking that might be where I am consuming all this silver.
Silver isn't just used in electronics.
See all those mirrors around your home? What do you think is used on the back of the glass to reflect the image?
Educate yourself: check out the uses of silver on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver
Silver is used in literally thousands of different applications. Our society probably will change drastically if silver becomes unavailable.
That's when governments MIGHT step in to confiscate all silver; in order to keep industries going, for the good of society (actually, it's really just for the benefit of their friends).
You forgot solar panels.
They are subsidizing everything. Why not when you have a printing press and no accountability? Naked short the shit out of it all and print up some more to buy what you have price depressed.
Get it?
RIPS
No matter how you dissect it, the pace of money printing is way ahead of gold and silver production. Therefore, I dare you to cuddle your paper dollars in preference to silver dollars.
Any talk of gold and silver being in oversupply is bunkum and will only prove a disaster when the mentally challenged pygmies experience an epiphany.
"apparently the physical supply of gold is more than demand, and the physical supply of silver way more."
Stop playing dumb. Mining only increases the amount of gold in the world by roughly 3 percent each year. China is now taking every ounce of that. The other 97% that has been stockpiled since the beginning of time is what they are using to suppress the price. Once the western banksters run out it is game over. There is no stockpile of silver, the price explosion in silver will be magnitudes greater than in gold.
Silver For The People
IWC: Sprott and some others will take issue you over "physical supply of gold is more than demand". Hence the theories that the central banks' vaults have been emptied. Some one help me; What was Sprott's estimated shortfail? Something like 4,000 tons/year?
I agree with you on the financial uncertainties. You can prep' for all manners of potential crises, but financial, economic and currency collapse ARE coming. It can just take longer than we think...