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Where Is Swiss Gold? – Location, Location, Location

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Submitted by Ronan Manly, GoldCore Consultant

Where Is Swiss Gold? – Location, Location, Location

  • Introduction
  • SNB Continues To Intervene In Politics
  • Swiss National Bank initial reaction to gold initiative
  • Swiss gold at the US Federal Reserve
  • “Stocks that were once at the Federal Reserve have been sold”
  • Swiss gold at the Bank of Canada, Ottawa
  • 1,300 tonnes of gold sold: SNB’s Michael Paprotta
  • SNB’s Paprotta Interview
  • SNB’s Paprotta view on Swiss gold held in London
  • Conclusion

Introduction

The Swiss referendum on monetary gold approaches on 30 November, less than four weeks, one aspect of the debate continues to focus on the need, or otherwise, for the Swiss National Bank (SNB) to continue to store a percentage of the Swiss gold reserves abroad.

SVP National Councillor, Lukas Reimann (SG) speaking at the launch of the Gold Initiative Committee’s press conference in Bern, 23 October 2014

One of the three objectives of the gold initiative is to have all
Swiss gold stored in Switzerland. The Swiss central bankers and the ‘no’
campaign maintains that it’s imperative to maintain foreign gold
storage at major gold trading centres that can be quickly traded in the
event of a financial crisis. While the ‘yes’ campaign counters that this
argument is redundant and that it is far safer to have Switzerland’s
gold stored in Switzerland during a financial crisis.

For example, Luzi Stamm, an SVP politician of the ‘yes’ campaign,
said recently that there is ‘no compelling reason’ to store Swiss gold
abroad, while Thomas Jordan, chairman of the governing board of the
Swiss National Bank maintains that it’s easier to activate foreign held
gold in a financial emergency if its stored at a major gold trading hub.

Within this aspect of the debate, it’s therefore critical to look at
where the foreign held Swiss gold is actually stored - with the Bank of
Canada and Bank of England and in what form it may be stored - earmarked
or unallocated. 

It is also important to examine where the substantial Swiss gold
sales in the early 2000s took place from - which included Swiss gold
holdings that were stored at the US Federal Reserve Bank. 

SNB Continues To Intervene In Politics

The Swiss National Bank (SNB) continued to enter the debate about
Switzerland’s upcoming gold initiative last week, despite the SNB not
normally entering into any political debates and discussions.

In an interview with Swiss newspaper NordWestSchweiz published on 29
October, SNB board member Fritz Zurbrügg said that while the SNB is
usually very reluctant to comment on Swiss initiatives and referenda, on
this occasion the central bank feels that they need to intervene[1].

 Historic shot from Bank of Canada, Ottawa - Gold Vault (Source: Library and Archives Canada)

In the SNB’s view, the gold initiative is an exceptional issue since,
if it passes, it will have a direct impact on the activities of the SNB
and will prevent the Bank from fully following its mandate in terms of
monetary and investment policy.

In a tactic similar to that used by the recently formed anti ‘gold initiative’ political campaign (http://www.goldinitiative-nein.ch ),
Zurbrügg attempted to connect the SNB’s gold holdings to the financial
budgets of the Swiss cantons by highlighting that if gold holdings rose
as a percentage of the SNB’s balance sheet, then a fall in the gold
price could reduce distributable income to the Swiss Federation and the
cantons, and that additionally gold also does not pay any interest or
dividends.

Zurbrügg stated that “a high gold content does not guarantee currency
stability”, and he re-introduced the argument that with the gold
initiative calling for at least 20% of central bank reserve assets to be
held in gold, that this gold cannot be sold and is therefore useless in
a financial crisis.

This statement, that gold which cannot be sold becomes useless in a
financial crisis is not factually correct. Many central banks in the
past have either swapped monetary gold for US dollars as a way of
raising dollar liquidity, for example the Swedish Riksbank in 2008[2],
or used monetary gold as collateral to obtain US dollar loans during a
crisis.

The World Gold Council (WGC) even has an entire team of staff
dedicated to assisting and encouraging central banks to manage and
optimise gold as part of their reserve portfolios, and the WGC regularly
runs courses for central bank staff explaining how gold can provide
liquidity and stability to central bank reserve portfolios. 
In an argument for holding gold abroad, Zurbrügg said that an emergency
supply of gold needs to be in ‘major gold trading centres’ of which he
claimed both London and Ottawa to be ‘major gold trading centres’.
That’s notwithstanding the fact that Ottawa has not been a major gold
trading centre for many years.

One interesting question from the newspaper journalist to Zurbrügg
that’s worth repeating was that when Zurbrügg was asked “How often does
the Swiss National Bank inspect and check that the Swiss stocks (foreign
held gold) are actually on site?”, he replied “I can say only this
much: There are regular visits. The gold bars are numbered and
identified at all times.”

According to a report in the Swiss newspaper ‘Tages Anzeiger’ on 7
October, when Muzi Stamm’s gold initiative campaign team submitted their
initiative to the Swiss Federal Chancellor in March 2013, the campaign
founders had claimed that “almost half of the Swiss gold reserves were
stored abroad - much of it in the United States”, and that it was
specifically this claim that prompted the SNB to then reveal In April
2013, for the first time, that the Swiss gold reserves were 70% stored
in Switzerland, 20% in England and 10% in Canada[3].

If there had, at some time, been almost half of Switzerland’s 2,590
tonnes of gold held abroad, much of it in the US, then there would have
been approximately 1,300 tonnes of gold stored abroad, much of it in the
US.

Swiss National Bank initial reaction to gold initiative
On 26 April 2013, just over a week after the Federal Chancellor had
confirmed the validity of the gold initiative signature count and the
wording of the gold initiative referendum, the Swiss National Bank (SNB)
appeared to be panicked, since, at its general shareholders meeting,
the Bank’s chairman of the governing board, Thomas Jordan spent over
half his speech (4 entire pages of a 7 page speech) attempting to defend
the Bank’s approach to its gold holdings.

Jordan began by disparagingly referring to the gold initiative as the
‘so-called gold initiative’ when in fact, ‘gold initiative’ forms part
of the popular initiative’s official title, as confirmed by the Federal
Chancellor Corina Casanova in her statement the previous week.

Jordan also attempted to dilute the gold initiative’s goal of
repatriating foreign stored gold reserves by defending the strategy of
keeping gold stored outside Switzerland, and by also revealing the
locations of the foreign held gold.

Attributing the location revelations to the fact that “the SNB is
aware that there has been a growing need for transparency in our
population in the last few years”, Jordan went on to say that of the
1,040 remaining tonnes of Swiss gold, ‘more than’ 70% was stored in
Switzerland, ‘roughly 20%’ was stored at the Bank of England and
“approximately 10%” was stored at the Bank of Canada. He also stated
that “the SNB has been storing gold exclusively in these countries for
over ten years”, which would imply that there had not been any Swiss
gold stored in the US since as early as late 2002.

On the subject of why the SNB stored some of its gold abroad, the SNB
chairman stated that “it ensures that the SNB can in fact access its
gold reserves, especially in an emergency”. Jordan also attempted to
reassure those who might be concerned about whether the foreign held
gold was there at all by stating “our partner central banks keep clearly
identifiable gold bar holdings for the SNB. Each bar stored abroad has a
bar identification and remains the property of the SNB. The
availability of our gold holdings is fully guaranteed at all times.”[4]

Swiss gold at the US Federal Reserve
On 7 October 2014, in further reaction to the gold initiative in the
run-up to the referendum, the SNB released a ‘media dossier on gold’
question and answer format, with this document only being available in
French and German[5].

In the media dossier, the SNB answers some interesting questions about
the locations and former locations of Switzerland’s foreign gold
holdings, and reveals that Swiss foreign gold had included gold that was
in custody with the US Federal Reserve, but that this gold had been
completely sold as part of the Swiss gold sales. Since all foreign gold
in the custody of the US Federal Reserve is held in the gold vaults of
the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, the SNB are referring to their
gold account held at the FRBNY vault, sometimes referred to as the
‘Banque National Suisse’ gold account.  

Given that the SNB’s Thomas Jordan had said in April 2013 that the SNB
had for over 10 years exclusively stored its non-domestic gold with the
Bank of England and Bank of Canada, this implies that the Swiss gold
stored at the Federal Reserve would have had to have been completely
sold prior to at least early 2003 if not earlier.     

SNB Q: Since when has the SNB not stored additional gold in the United States? Were these (gold) stocks sold or repatriated?

\SNB A: “The SNB stores 30% of its gold reserves abroad: 20% is stored in
the Bank England, and 10% in the Bank of Canada. For over ten years,
the SNB stores its gold reserves only in these two countries.
 Stocks that were once at the Federal Reserve (Fed) have been sold.”

The SNB also reveals that most of the 1,550 tonnes of Swiss gold sold
from 2000 to 2008 was from gold holdings held abroad. These sales of
gold held abroad also undermine the arguments of the SNB and associated
politicians who claim that foreign held gold is more valuable in a time
of financial crisis than gold stored in Switzerland. If the approximate
700 remaining tonnes of gold now held by the SNB in Switzerland was not
as important as the large quantities of gold held abroad, then why were
the gold holdings that were held aboard sold and not the gold that was
held domestically?

SNB Q:Are we sure that the SNB gold stored abroad is still available?

SNB A: Partner central banks store bars clearly identifiable like those
of the SNB. Each ingot stored abroad is inventoried with an
identification number; it remains at all times in the stock of the
National Bank and remains the property of the SNB. Gold sales that occurred in the past have largely focused on stocks held abroad. They showed that gold stocks are available at any time.

The above two facts, and the claim by the gold initiative organisers
that most of the foreign held gold was held in the US, reveal that the
SNB had held significant gold at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York
and that most of the gold sold by the Swiss in the 1,550 tonne gold
sales was sold from stocks held abroad, including significant quantities
of Swiss gold sold out of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York vaults.

Former head of the SNB Philipp Hildebrand stated in 2005, when
commenting on the 2000 – 2005 Swiss gold sales, that 730 tonnes of these
sales had been done on the spot market between 2001 and 2004, and that
“typically, the Bank of England was used for the physical settlement of
these operations[6]”

This does not necessarily mean that the gold sales that settled at the
Bank of England were from Swiss gold that had been stored at the Bank of
England. The SNB could have executed sizeable gold location swaps
between New York and London so as to have had enough gold in London in
order to settle gold sales out of London.

In an educational publication of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York
titled ‘A Day at the Fed’ by Charles Parnow, published from 1973 to
1983[7], it states that in the Fed’s New York gold vault there is “a
smaller auxiliary vault built in 1963” that holds the gold of three
account holders. “One account with 107,000 bars is stacked with
bricklayer precision into a solid wall 12 feet high, 10 feet wide and 18
feet deep.”

These 107,000 gold bars were US Assay office bars, as were the majority
of gold bars stored at the FRBNY. If these bars were of .995 fineness
and average weight of 400oz each, this would total approximately 1,330
tonnes. When this Fed guide was published, there were only a handful of
central banks / international organisations that could have held 1,300
tonnes of gold at the FRB New York, Germany, the IMF and Switzerland.
France had most of its gold stored in Paris and Italy had over half its
gold not stored in New York.

The IMF, according to its Articles of Association, had to have over 50%
of its 3,400 tonnes of gold stored in New York so this would be over
1,700 tonnes and would exceed the 107,000 mentioned by Charles Parnow.

The Bundesbank in January 2013 stated that it held 1,536 tonnes of gold
(122,597 bars) in the Fed’s New York vaults[8]. Therefore, this 107,000
bar wall of gold most likely belonged to the Swiss National Bank’s gold
account, and if this was the case, would suggest that the SNB disposed
of this entire 1,300 tonnes of gold from New York.

Other questions in the SNB’s Q&A dossier address the foreign held
gold stored at the Bank of England in London and the Bank of Canada in
Ottawa.

SNB Q: Do representatives from the SNB have access to the storage locations?


SNB A: Access to the gold is governed by the provisions of the central bank and takes place by agreement between the parties.

SNB Q: When was the last visit of the SNB to these sites (abroad)?

SNB A: Representatives of the National Bank inspect the storage rooms of
gold at regular intervals and in agreement with the central bank
partners. The SNB has been satisfied in all respects by the result of
these visits.

 Swiss gold at the Bank of Canada, Ottawa
There are a number of significant facts about the Bank of Canada’s gold
vault in Ottawa that the SNB is not telling the Swiss public. In fact,
the SNB do not tell the Swiss public very much at all about the Swiss
gold held in Ottawa. The following SNB Q&A illustrate the dearth of
information imparted by the SNB:

SNB Q: Why does the SNB store gold in the UK and Canada? Where exactly are the stocks in these countries?


SNB A: The choice of countries where gold is stored meets a series of
clearly defined criteria. It also achieves, outside Switzerland, an
appropriate geographical and geopolitical diversification; the selected
country must have a high level of economic and political stability,
provide a high level protection for the immunity for central bank
investments, but also provide an advantage in terms of market access. The
Swiss National Bank knows the precise geographic location of storage
areas in the countries concerned, but does not provide any information
on that subject.

SNB Q: Since when has gold been stored in these countries (England and Canada)?

SNB A: Deposits in these two countries have existed for several decades

References by the SNB to the Bank of Canada in Ottawa as a ‘major gold trading centre’ are also inaccurate.

As well as Canada having sold nearly all of its own gold reserves in
the 1980s and 1990s, the Bank of Canada only acts as gold custodian to
four foreign central banks. As well as Switzerland, it’s known that the
Netherlands and Sweden both gold small quantities of gold with the Bank
of Canada in Ottawa. The 4th foreign central bank gold depositor is most
likely the Bank of England or the Banque de France as they both had
strong historic gold trading connections with the Bank of Canada during
the 1950s and 1960s, as well as storing gold in the Ottawa vault during
WWII.

What the SNB has also not said in the Swiss gold initiative debate is
that the Bank of Canada's remaining custody gold that had been stored in
its gold vault in Ottawa has recently been moved to another vault[9].

The Bank of Canada's headquarters building is situated on Wellington
Street. The gold vault under the Bank of Canada’s HQ building runs from
Wellington Street on one side of the building out towards Sparks Street
on the other side.

This building is currently undergoing an extensive multi-year
renovation which required the Bank to vacate the entire building last
year, and empty it's entire contents, including the gold stored in the
subterranean vault[10]. The renovations will not be complete until
January 2017. Representing 10% of the SNB’s total gold holdings of 1,040
tonnes, this means that over 100 tonnes of Swiss gold has recently been
moved and the Swiss public are not aware of this.

The gold in the Bank’s Ottawa vault, in the form of bars and coins,
was relocated in advance of the Bank personnel move. Whatever gold was
moved from the Bank of Canada’s HQ vault has most likely been moved to
the Royal Canadian Mint (RCM) gold refinery vault just a mile down the
road from Wellington Street.

This would also explain why historic Canadian gold coins from
1912-1914 that had been stored in the Bank’s vault for 75 years recently
ended up in the RCM’s vault in November 2012, and why ex Bank of Canada
governor Mark Carney appeared in publicity photo shoots at the RCM
vault at that time, while holding the Bank of Canada gold coins.

“"The Bank of Canada is proud to have safeguarded these national
treasures for over 75 years and we are pleased that they have returned
to the Mint so that Canadians can collect them as precious historical
objects," said Mark Carney, Governor of the Bank of Canada.[11]” 

If the Swiss gold that was previous held at the Bank of Canada’s Ottawa
vault is now being stored in the Royal Canadian Mint’s vault, the Swiss
public should be told this, and be assured that the Swiss gold is
segregated from the Mint’s working inventory of gold.

1,300 tonnes of gold sold: SNB’s Michael Paprotta

In March 2013, just after the gold initiative committee had completed
their signature gathering campaign to call a popular initiative
referendum on the Swiss gold, Michael Paprotta, the former head of money
market and precious metals at the Swiss National Bank, was interviewed
by Central Banking magazine about the proposed gold referendum.

Of all Swiss National Bank employees and former employees, Paprotta is
probably the one person who is most familiar with the Swiss gold
reserves and the sales programme, since, while he worked at the SNB, he
was actually responsible for the famous gold sales program, or as he put
it in his LinkedIn profile “execution of a gold sales program of 1,300
tons”[12]. This gold sales accomplishment was quickly removed from his
Linkedin profile in October 2012 after it became publicised[13].

As well as responsibility for the execution of the gold sale programme,
Michael Paprotta, in his SNB gold role, also had responsibility for the
SNB’s "gold lending portfolio[14]. Prior to working in the SNB, Paprotta
worked at Edmond Safra’s Republic National Bank in precious metals
trading and sales, but moved to the SNB in January 2000, just after
Republic National was taken over by HSBC.

Patrotta joined the SNB a few months before the start of the 1,300 gold
sales programme which began in May 2000. The first 220 tonnes of sales
were conducted via the gold trading desk of the Bank for International
Settlements (BIS) in Basel. As well as loco London and loco New York,
the BIS offers gold safekeeping and settlement facilities loco
Berne[15], through its gold holdings in the Berne gold vaults of the
Swiss National Bank.

The SNB have said subsequently that the first Swiss gold sales in 2000
and 2001 were conducted using the BIS as selling agent because the SNB
did not have the “necessary professionals, know-how, trading resources
and contacts to the international gold market to trade directly[16]”.
But this statement does not make sense in light of the fact that the SNB
hired precious metals trader Paprotta in January 2000 with
responsibility for the execution of the gold sales programme. So using
the BIS as a selling agent in 2000 and 2001 was no doubt done for
another specific reason. The BIS are, after all, the world’s
inter-central bank gold broker.

SNB’s Paprotta Interview

In the 2013 Central Banking interview, Paprotta, now head of precious
metals and bank notes trading at Raiffeisen bank in Switzerland,
indicated that he plans to vote against the initiative. "It influences
the total reserve management of the Swiss National Bank, and I don't
think that is a good thing," he is quoted as saying.

Paprotta also said that if ratified in the Constitution, the Swiss gold
initiative would create “colliding interests” and that in recent
intervention operations where the SNB has been purchasing large amounts
of foreign currency as a way of preventing the appreciation of the Swiss
Franc “then under these proposals it would have to keep up buying on
the gold side to maintain the minimum level of 20%”.

Paprotta thinks that the most ‘disturbing’ part of the gold initiative
proposal is the attempt to prevent the SNB from selling gold, since, in
his view, this creates inflexibility and puts a floor on Switzerland’s
gold holdings.

On the question of how the SNB will communicate their opposition to the
initiative, Paprotta said "I don't see the Swiss National Bank coming
out and starting a campaign by putting up billboards. I guess they will
be involved in political discussion, and will make their point, but
campaigning? I don't think so."[17]

SNB’s Paprotta’s view on Swiss gold held in London

As well as dealing in gold, Paprotta is also knowledgeable about
transporting and storing gold, since he gave a 2010 Central banking
conference talk in Hong Kong on the subject of "The Mechanics of
Trading, Moving and Storing" (Gold)[18].

On the subject of the SNB’s gold storage arrangements including the
foreign held Swiss gold, Paprotta said in the interview "I personally
believe the Swiss National Bank did an outstanding job in terms of
allocating where the gold is.”

According to Central Banking magazine, Paprotta “explained that
Switzerland is not the largest centre for unallocated gold trading” and
he noted “that the fixing is conducted in London, most bullion banks are
based in London and they in turn receive clearing services from the
Bank of England.” He added that "it makes perfect sense to have part of
your reserves, if you are actively managing them, in locations where you
have quick access to markets.”

So it appears that the Swiss gold held by the SNB at the Bank of England
in London is being actively managed and that this gold may not be in
allocated storage. Paprotta’s statement therefore does not align with
the continued SNB assurances from Thomas Jordan that all “each bar
stored abroad has a bar identification and remains the property of the
SNB. The availability of our gold holdings is fully guaranteed at all
times”.

Conclusion

With the Swiss gold stored at the Bank of Canada, now having been
transferred out of the Bank of Canada’s Ottawa vault to an unknown
location, the Swiss public would be wise to question the SNB on this
move.

With the Swiss gold stored at the Bank of England in London seemingly
being ‘actively managed’ one of the world’s largest centres for
unallocated gold trading, the Swiss public would also be wise to enquire
on this issue. And with significant historical quantities of Swiss gold
that were stored with the US Federal Reserve Bank in New York no longer
there after the SNB seemingly brought their US vaulted gold holdings to
zero, the Swiss public need to question why these particular holdings
were targeted for sales from 2000-2005 and not domestically held gold.

Transparency is a matter of public importance - including transparency regarding every nations' sovereign gold reserves.

See Essential Guide to  Storing Gold and Silver In Switzerland here

[1] http://www.aargauerzeitung.ch/schweiz/das-thema-goldinitiative-treibt-mi...
[2] ‘Liquidity in the Global Gold Market' World Gold Council http://www.gold.org/sites/default/files/documents/gold-investment-resear...
[3] http://mobile2.tagesanzeiger.ch/articles/54340d4687da8b7864000001
[4] Speech given by Thomas J. Jordan, Chairman of the Governing Board, at the General Meeting of Shareholders of the Swiss National Bank, 26 April 20132013 http://www.snb.ch/en/mmr/speeches/id/ref_20130426_tjn/source/ref_2013042...
 [5] SNB media dossier on gold, Q & A format
http://www.snb.ch/fr/mmr/reference/media_dossier_gold_qa%20/source/media...
[6]http://www.bis.org/review/r050509b.pdf
[7] http://www.worldcat.org/title/day-at-the-fed/oclc/3511561/editions
 [8]https://www.bundesbank.de/Redaktion/DE/Downloads/Presse/Publikationen/20...
 [9] “The Bank of Canada’s move, and what it means for a fabled underground vault”, 11 June 2013 http://www.macleans.ca/society/life/the-secret-treasure/
[10] Head office renewal, Bank of Canada, Ottawa http://www.bankofcanada.ca/about/head-office-renewal/
[11] http://www.mint.ca/store/news/a-national-treasure-resurfaces-as-the-roya...
 [12] “Resume Of The Day: Meet The Man Who Sold 1,300 Tons Of Swiss Gold”, 4 October 2012,  http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-10-04/resume-day-meet-man-who-sold-13...
 [13] “Turns Out Dumping 1,300 Tons Of Swiss Gold Isn't A Resume Builder After All”, 5 October 2012 http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-10-05/turns-out-dumping-1300-tons-swi...
 [14] 8th Dubai City of Gold Conference http://www.dubaicityofgold.com/8conf/speakers1.html
 [15] Loco Berne http://www.bis.org/banking/finserv.htm
[16] Philipp Hildebrand: SNB gold sales – lessons and experiences, May 2005 http://www.bis.org/review/r050509b.pdf
[17] “Swiss National Bank faces referendum over gold sales” by Tristan Carlyle, Central Banking, 21 March 2013, http://www.centralbanking.com/central-banking/news/2256709/swiss-nationa...
[18] “Gold as a Reserve Asset: A key element of central bank portfolio management”, Central Banking Events, Hong Kong, May 2010, see page 4 http://ev590.eventive.incisivecms.co.uk/digital_assets/2456/gara_2010_up...
 [19] http://www.arabianmoney.net/gold-silver/2014/10/30/swiss-gold-referendum...

See GoldCore’s Previous Coverage of the Save Our Swiss Gold Initiative at links below

Swiss Gold Referendum “Propaganda War” Begins October 14
“Save Our Swiss Gold ” - Game Changer For Gold? October 17
First Swiss Gold Poll Shows Pro-Gold Side In Lead At 45% October 21
Swiss ‘Yes’ and ‘No’ Gold Initiative Campaigns Compete at Launches in Bern October 24

 

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Mon, 11/03/2014 - 12:41 | 5407011 Arius
Arius's picture

more hype ... and why is important where the swiss gold is versus where the rest of the world gold is?

 

 

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 12:44 | 5407031 gafgroocK
gafgroocK's picture

 

 

Looks like they have been living the Fantasy.........

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 12:45 | 5407041 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

3 Card Monte.  Where's your gold?  Follow the queen.  It's easy.  

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:13 | 5407104 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Aw, there they go again.

Swiss barbarians.. clinging to their precious relic and their guns.

http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-swiss-difference-a-gun-culture-that-works/

 

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:14 | 5407138 fightthepower
fightthepower's picture

http://dont-tread-on.me/?p=32981

 

This will never be allowed to pass.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:18 | 5407157 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

Canata CB Sold Its Massive Hoard Of 25 Million GOLD Ozs Decades Years Ago...

Yeah Sure, I Would Trust My Phys GOLD With Canata...

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:22 | 5407171 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

PS............. Hows That Fuckin Repatriation Of GERMAN GOLD Going ... Hahaha

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:23 | 5407174 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Gold is worth GOLD only if is in your hand.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 16:23 | 5407973 Syrin
Syrin's picture

I have such limited time today.   What's the abridged version?   The gold isn't there and the Swidd CB is trying to stay off the gold standard?

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:44 | 5407260 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

"Canata CB Sold Its Massive Hoard Of 25 Million GOLD Ozs Decades Years Ago..."

It doesn't matter. As any other Western government, the Canadian one could be as stupid as it gets. What matters is the fact that in Canada you can buy freshly minted "maple leafs" of .9999 quality (gold or silver), pretty much anywhere...

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:07 | 5407115 Tao 4 the Show
Tao 4 the Show's picture

This Greyerez guy (see KWN) was taking contributions to promote the Swiss "Yes" vote and now says the PayPal account receiving the donations has been mysteriously frozen. Who knows whether true or if so, why it happened? But if it is true and happened for the obvious reason, it is an interesting event. Speaks to what matters and how much it matters, and how close events like this may be to spinning the system out of control.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:12 | 5407134 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Greyerz has no reason to lie.  He is for vote and swiss holdings transparency.  Bankers shut it down, for sure.

 

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 14:02 | 5407320 indygo55
indygo55's picture

The gold is gone. The PTB will do anything and everything to stop this initiative, 

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 16:23 | 5407978 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

It wasn't mysteriously frozen. The law is straight forward.

What is mysterious is the raging hypocrisy of Zero-brain Hedgetards, who are vigorously object to even domestic corporate persons buying influence in their own domestic elections, but have absolutely no reservations about buying influence through corporate finance in foreign elections where they can't even vote.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 18:21 | 5408470 omniversling
omniversling's picture

Link here: http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2014/10/30_P...

Anyone know why? To do with non-Swiss openly funding a Swiss referendum campaign? Or just the Banksters closing rank, ala Wikileaks?

Any knowledge, research or contributors on this one? Tylers?

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 12:46 | 5407032 TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

It's all in Jerusalem! I quite Facebook cause I have an ex Swiss girlfriend on there from way back and she fawns over Obama and hates Putin. I just deleted my account rather than pull what was left of my hair out. She wasn't the only frustration....there were more!

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 12:57 | 5407083 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Suppose one day you call up BOE of BOC and ask them for the gold they hold for you and they say go jump in a lake.  How long would it take the Swiss to mount an offensive to recapture their gold?

But if that doesn't explain it for then you are free to send your gold/silver/whatever to me and I will hold it for you.

If you don't got it, you don't got it.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:39 | 5407234 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

This Swiss Referendum is the offensive.

 

I guess that the Ponzi game of the Gold Lease Contracts does not end when the Chinese do not get delivery of thier Gold.

 

I think that the Swiss public has had enough of this crap. They are collectively calling the game with this referendum.

 

It is not about getting 6 ounces per person in Switzerland when World Supply is one tenth of an ounce per person.

 

The referendum is about demonstrating to the World that the Western Vaults are "empty" because the Gold which may be there has many numerous claims against it. It is about exposing the fraud.

 

They do not have to have an army. They already have underground vaults of Gold. They will just seize and freeze the assets of the Oligarchs of the Nations which do not Stand and Deliver.

 

Ever hear of Credit Crunch II? It is going to be a cold winter after all. Good Bye Euro. Good bye Dollar.

 

Wehr ist mine ficking guld? Du swinekopft Du ficking swinekopf!!!

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 15:23 | 5407641 walküre
walküre's picture

The Swiss army is actually pretty well equipped to dealing with potential hissing and tantrum throwing oligarchs.

For the record, it is "Du verfickter Schweinskopf"

Swiss might want to see the cards but they may also start WW3 with this insulence.

History books will of course never mention that WW3 started over a gold referendum. None of the big wars ever started over gold officially.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 12:58 | 5407088 junction
junction's picture

Paprotta better toe the line on Swiss gold sales, the nail gun squad has itchy trigger fingers when it comes to banksters who don't follow orders.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:07 | 5407112 bwh1214
bwh1214's picture

Wow really? The answer to your question is because the Swiss want thier gold back.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 12:51 | 5407014 thunderchief
thunderchief's picture

Its gone!

And if you are Swiss, please vote yes, and do not be like the Gemans and stoop over and take it up the 'Reinhardt' by a big Yanki Sausage of poor 'paper' quality ...

Physical matters, so please vote yes. It is more than gold, it is your sovereignty

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:06 | 5407107 Bogdog
Bogdog's picture

Lest ye forget:

http://youtu.be/_nVk25ZvTkU

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:44 | 5407259 TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

If you want your gold back you are "anti semetic"...haha

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 12:41 | 5407018 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

...it is far safer to have Switzerland’s gold stored in Switzerland
during a financial crisis.

But only for the Swiss.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 12:47 | 5407045 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

And therein lies the problem.

Do you think the bankers laugh when some "rogue nation" like Germany or Switzerland asks for their gold back?

I think they laugh.  Yeah.  I'm pretty sure they laugh.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 14:34 | 5407441 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Is there any other definition of "loosers"?

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 17:28 | 5408314 Uncle Sugar
Uncle Sugar's picture

Loose like your momma?

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 18:02 | 5408410 omniversling
omniversling's picture

Nice, but no mention there of Trans Border National Globalism, Operation Paperclip, NASA, Langley etc, nor the transformation of the 3rd Reich into the 4th Reich, the transfer of the Reichstag to DC, supermensch, eugenics, God's Folk (Chosenites) etc. "The names have changed but the song remains the same". Worrying times, when this history rhymes:

MENGELE AND THE NAZI INTERNATIONAL

https://www.gizadeathstar.com/2009/01/mengele-and-the-nazi-international/ 

Rise of the 4th Reich in America - Jim Marrs

https://www.projectcamelot.info/project-camelot-interviews-2/jim-marrs-t...

Breakaway Civilzation Pt. 1 with Dr. Joseph Farrell - Solari Report Interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f7wOxw4fQI   

Operation Gladio - The WW2  'stay behind' Fascists:

http://www.corbettreport.com/?s=gladio

Peace

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 18:36 | 5408517 supermaxedout
supermaxedout's picture

Heidelberg, Mannheim, Hanau and I think also Darmstadt are not longer home to US facilities. But nevertheless the US can do whatever they want in Germany and nobody can hold them responsible for anything.

Germany does not have a Peace Treaty, neither with Russia, the US, France, UK nor with the many, many countries which were officially in war with Germany by 1945.  The unification of Germany in 1990 did not change anything in this regard. The non-existence of a Peace Treaty is still today the legal base for the continuing occupation of Germany. Germany is not a nation state comparable to the rest of Europe, its a territory only called Deutschland.

It does not even have a constitution (which is everywhere the base of a state). Germany has only a Basic Law (Grundgesetz) which is according to "Hague Convention respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land" a preliminary construction at the end of a war to avoid chaos and to restore order after a war. 



 

 

 

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 12:43 | 5407020 gafgroocK
gafgroocK's picture

 

 

 

 

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 12:43 | 5407033 rejected
rejected's picture

Swiss gold reserve at the u.s federal reserve... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA,,,, LOL,,,,, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH,,, ROFLMAO,,,, REPEAT.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 16:09 | 5407856 CHX
CHX's picture

"...prompted the SNB to then reveal In April 2013, for the first time, that the Swiss gold reserves were 70% stored in Switzerland, 20% in England and 10% in Canada"

There you have it, no Swiss gold in the USSA today - if one believes the SNB.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 16:35 | 5408054 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Volcker Commission -- 1996.

Too many Jew bankers and lawyers (and AIPAC lackeys) in NYC made FRBNY or anywhere else in the USSA a risky storage proposition.

Swiss English is more subtle than American English...

"The choice of countries where gold is stored meets a series of clearly defined criteria. It also achieves, outside Switzerland, an appropriate geographical and geopolitical diversification; the selected country must have a high level of economic and political stability, provide a high level protection for the immunity for central bank investments, but also provide an advantage in terms of market access."

The Swiss gold left the FRBNY vault long before the SNB hired Paprotta.

Banksters may obfuscate, but only amateur banksters actually lie.

Tue, 11/04/2014 - 03:40 | 5409706 CHX
CHX's picture

They don't necessarily lie, but leave out  important tibits of truth... ...another kind of "a tradtion" ;-)

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 12:45 | 5407036 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

The SNB can have 2% of its gold back in ... oh, say 20 years.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 12:49 | 5407056 Agstacker
Agstacker's picture

With an option to extend the time...

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 12:51 | 5407068 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

Bet it's going to piss the Swiss off pretty bad if they have to get in line behind Germany.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 12:46 | 5407042 Casual_Observer
Casual_Observer's picture

If you can't touch it whenever you want, It's not yours.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 12:47 | 5407047 Fuku Ben
Fuku Ben's picture

So what will the Swiss false flag be to get them to voluntanrily give up their gold?

Gold transmits Ebola?
Mass casualty shooting coinciding with a drill to steal gold?

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 12:46 | 5407048 Confundido
Confundido's picture

This referendum is the most stupid political move of gold bugs against the cartel. Why? Because there is a high probability that the "No" will win, given the propaganda machine. And then? What will happen? What will happen on Dec 1st, when we learn that not even the Swiss want to use gold as reserve to back their currency? We will go to below $900/oz....

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 12:59 | 5407092 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Even if the referendum passes, we may still have gold go below 900.

But that has nothing to do with the possibility that gold will go over 5000.

Gold will do whatever it will do because of sentiment.  Once the sentiment of fiat money turns over and comes crashing down, exponential rises will not be enough to describe the rise of gold....

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:39 | 5407233 escapeefromOZ
escapeefromOZ's picture

If the goes to 900 , it is not sentiment .... it is manipulation. How do you explain that te sales of gold are up evrywhere , but the the paper gold is down ? 

It is called manipulation and in those ficticious values of toilet paper there is no truth . 

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 14:13 | 5407357 No Euros please...
No Euros please we're British's picture

Thing I find weird is that the lower gold and silver go, the more the miners produce to keep up with demand. Their management may have a death wish, but are their shareholders complete morons?

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 14:17 | 5407375 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Gold will go to ZERO as a result of this. It is sentiment and not manipulation at that point.

 

Let's see this in CLARITY.

 

I purchase a contract for the delivery of 100 ounce troy of Gold to be delivered in 90 days. 

 

Following that the company where I bought that contract declares a Force Majeure and states that it has no deliverable Gold.

 

What is that CONTRACT worth? Would you purchase that contract? Would you be a sentimental fool?

 

That contract is not worth the price of the paper it is printed upon, is it?

 

THe Physical Gold Market in the United States is very small. In fact less than one percent of the contracts issued by the CME Group are ever delivered.

 

The Gold Price is not the price of a contract. And yet the price of Gold is reported as 1/100th the price of a CME Group issued Contract. Actually it is the contracts which are being traded and not Physical Gold.

 

That is why CME Group can issue contracts at the rate that they are issuing them. The contracts issued are levered ONE HUNDRED TO ONE. That means for every single ounce wich the CME Group has vaulted there are ONE HUNDRED CLAIMS against it.

 

That is how I KNOW...beyond a shadow of any doubt...that less than one percent of the contracts issued by CME Group are ever reddemed and delivered. The vast majority of contracts are rolled over or settled in Fiat Currency.

 

HOWEVER...WHEN just another one percent demands delivery then CME Group must declare a Force Majeure. They will not have the Gold to cover thier issuances. That day is approaching. It may be tommorow. It may be next year. But it will happen.

 

On that day the price of those contracts will be ZERO as they become absolutely WORTHLESS.

 

I know that it reads somewhat counterintuitive.

 

In a normal market you'd expect that the CME Group will raise the price of Gold, seeking sellers of Gold, so that the contracts can be filled.

 

But there is a Tipping Point for that. When the confidence has been breached and trust is all but lost nobody will be parting with thier metal at any price.

 

It will be impossible for CME Group to fill those contracts. The price of the undeliverable contracts will decline rapidly to ZERO.

 

And the taxpayer will bail out CME Group, as to the agreement set by the EO of President Obama, as CME Group has been declared as "Too Big To Fail".

 

If anyone reading this is a Swiss National...

 

Vote Yes on the Swiss Referendum and please bring the fraud to a halt.

 

The Americans do not have the balls to do it.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:40 | 5407243 walküre
walküre's picture

Gold goes to zero. Will do wonders for the consumer driven economy when there's nothing left to buy.

There is nowhere to put money other than gold. Period. The CBs know this as well.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 18:10 | 5408430 omniversling
omniversling's picture

When paper contracts are also in backwardation, along with physical, the endgame approaches, according to Andrew Maguire (unless of course there's a CB/Primary Bullion Dealer/HFT/Algo/ plan to shake the tree some more, enabling the mates to scoop up a few insolvent miners, and some cheap shiny bars, with a manipulation we haven't even thought of yet):

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2014/11/2_Andre...

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:09 | 5407125 holgerdanske
holgerdanske's picture

2


Vote down!

0

This referendum is the most stupid political move of gold bugs against the cartel. Why? Because there is a high probability that the "No" will win, given the propaganda machine. And then? What will happen? What will happen on Dec 1st, when we learn that not even the Swiss want to use gold as reserve to back their currency? We will go to below $900/oz....

 

 

You must just look at a longer time frame. There is nothing wrong in collecting gold. The simple fact is, it can't be printed, made or "smoked and mirrored" into existence. It is you way to say f you to reserve banking. There is 5000 years of history behind that. If the powers can manipulate and falsify facts for maybe 10 or 15 years, I doubt they can do it that long, but you get the picture?

When this thing blows, you will loose everything except real assets. Of thos, gold is the premier asset.

Anyone can tell you you can't get wealthier by printing money, it has never worked, and it won't this time either. Don't play their game, or you will only be able to use Dollar bills as wall paper or to kindle your fire .

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 15:14 | 5407607 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

As a Gold Bug I really do hope that Gold declines to $900.

 

It is obvious that you are not a Gold Bug as you are that concerned with a paper price and a paper "loss".

 

You lack complete understanding of us. Yet I do understand you.

 

You place your faith into a Paper Certificate issued by a Government for use as a currency. Yes I can understand that.

 

Can you understand that we do not place our faith in a Government?

 

We know, from History, that Nations have a life cycle.

They are born.

They grow.

They age.

They become old.

And ultimately, just like any other organism, as they are organizations, they die.

 

When a Government dies then the paper promises, in this era the currency, dies with it. It has no value.

 

However throughout Human History Gold retains value throughout the many cycles of National birth and National death.

 

Gold's value is more permanent.

 

All signals are hearlding the demise and death of Western Governments...if you have not been paying attention.

 

There are fractures in many National Governments. Catalonia is one. The Arab Spring was another.

 

Even China is hanging on by a thread.

 

Many Nations in the World are dying concurrently. An entire American Empire is on the decline.

 

So should I trust its paper when all I am fed is lies and fraud from those whom I am supposed to trust?

 

Need I pledge my allegiance to an institution which is set out for my destruction?

 

I have absolutely no faith or confidence that the UNited States will be able to live through the onslayght of that which is about to happen. Hell our enemies can destroy us with an EMP Device detonated 200 miles above the heartland.

 

At this point I really do not care about the price. There are far too many other pressing issues.

 

Yet you have faith and confidence in that?

 

That is what I do not understand.

 

You need to sell me as to the reasons why I should have faith and confidence in the United States. But my wager is that you'd be hard pressed to find anything convincing.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 16:07 | 5407878 CHX
CHX's picture

Roger that. With every dollar lower, the demise of the paper gold scam draws nearer. Fizz, cash, lead and beans.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:13 | 5407143 123dobryden
123dobryden's picture

there is not a high probability

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:52 | 5407283 escapeefromOZ
escapeefromOZ's picture

On Dec 1st , if the US population has not been wiped out by Ebola , and if the US has not crushed in the meantime , we will discuss this subject again . 

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 12:51 | 5407062 D-liverSil-ver
D-liverSil-ver's picture

Apaarently Gold is worthless, nobody has it and nobody wants it.

That's why it keeps going down

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 12:58 | 5407087 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

"That's why it keeps going down... ...to China"  - Fixed.  A gram is a gram is a gram...

same as it ever was (well, at least until the next big margin call)...

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 12:50 | 5407064 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

Ebola to hit Switzerland between Nov 20-25th?

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:41 | 5407236 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

If the Germans need seven yearsto get their old back, why do the Swiss think they will be any luckier?

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 12:54 | 5407074 agent default
agent default's picture

My pet conspiracy theory is that central banks didn't really sell their gold in 2000.  The Fed had already sold the gold way before then.  The selling of gold by central banks was in fact a partial cash settlement and gold reserve write down for the gold that was already gone.  Now, if just one central bank turns around and demands their gold back, all of it, it could lead to a huge mess. 

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 12:57 | 5407084 kurzdump
kurzdump's picture

Whoever owns the SNBs gold 'reserves', it is definately not the citizens of Sitzerland - and wont be, whatever they vote for.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:01 | 5407093 ghostzapper
ghostzapper's picture

I'm actively preparing to fire some decent sized bullets and grab that phyz.  I had $1,150 targeted months ago and $15ish.  Currently adjusting those.  Been a long time for me.

Something is brewing.  Spare me the "obvious" explanations.  USD just off like a rocket for a few months all the drivel we hear doesn't account for all of this. 

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:01 | 5407094 data_monkey
data_monkey's picture

So, not a barbarous relic?

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:03 | 5407102 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

It pains me to see all the gold in the hands of the bankers. 

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:06 | 5407108 JimS
JimS's picture

I think it is important that the Swiss citizens have "their" country's gold stored in Switzerland....... period.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:10 | 5407124 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Do the Swiss believe in tradition like the Bernank?

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:40 | 5407235 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Very much so, you don't think the Swiss guard likes being dressed and armed like that

do you ?

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:12 | 5407133 ejmoosa
ejmoosa's picture

If you possess your gold assets in suffcients quantities in your own nation, then you will not have a crisis.  Others may have the crisis and want to borrow your gold.  That makes it more difficult for them.  

 

Leaving your gold in the hands of another is like leaving your daughter with BIll Clinton, for safekeeping.  It's a mistake.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:32 | 5407206 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Exactly. If Swiss gold is not safe in Switzerland then Switzerland is not safe for the Swiss either.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 14:09 | 5407343 No Euros please...
No Euros please we're British's picture

Well said, give that man a cigar.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:11 | 5407135 smithlangra
smithlangra's picture

I'm impressed that anybody able to make $7397 in 4 weeks on the computer . this link www.swipebuck.com

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:29 | 5407190 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

I am not amazed that you are amazed. Small minds are easy to amaze.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:14 | 5407140 SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture

"SNB Continues To Intervene In Politics"

Woah, this is shocking!

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:13 | 5407144 SoDamnMad
SoDamnMad's picture

The Swiss have a lot of guns at home and regularly go to well organized facilities to practice their "William Tell" shooting skills.

Screw nail guns. The Swiss will put 168 gr right in a bankers forehead.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:42 | 5407249 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Yes they are armed, trained citizen militia with the consequent sense of ownership in their country.  They also have a thing about democracy so any attempt to  rig this election is a risky proposition.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:44 | 5407256 agent default
agent default's picture

A Yes vote being even riskier.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 16:48 | 5408127 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

174 grains is the weight of the bullet in a GP11 round.

The GP90 that is used in the Stgw 90 (Sig 550) issued since the early 1990s has a 63gr bullet

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:21 | 5407168 Panic Mode
Panic Mode's picture

They all magically turn into chocolate gold coins.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 16:00 | 5407836 CHX
CHX's picture

Yes, Schoggi Taler, very popular in Swizzyland.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:25 | 5407178 Confundido
Confundido's picture

To all the bugs that keep dreaming about gold going East as the last hope it ever becomes currency, read this: Gold is the currency of free societies. If you think that regimes like the Chinese or even Singapore will ever adopt a gold-backed ccy out of their own will, you are delusional. Asia is also ruled by politicians that hate price stability. 

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:46 | 5407266 agent default
agent default's picture

Gold right now is a weapon to depose the USD and US hegemony.  Nobody said anything about freedom.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:27 | 5407183 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

If they were not trying to hide anything the SNB would release a complete historical spreadsheet shwing for example what gold was held in 1950, where that gold was held and what movements and what sales have taken place since then. Every other question and answer is just beating about the bush.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:29 | 5407188 aleph0
aleph0's picture

Dear Swiss Citizen

it is your DUTY as a Sovereign Citizen to Read GOLD WARS by Ferdinand Lips.

He explains why and how Switzerland's Banking System  , once the last Bastion of Honest Money , had to  be destroyed by the CB Cartel.

The rest is obvioous .... vote YES

 

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:38 | 5407201 Fix It Again Timmy
Fix It Again Timmy's picture

Many years ago, this current trend of "ghost" gold was initiated by goldsmith zero who realized that he could issue more receipts for gold than the actual amount of physical gold in his vault. Goldsmith Zero's initial cautious move has been infinitely repeated in ever increasing amounts of treachery and fraud, now taken to the nth degree - as far as gold goes, trust no one other than your two eyes and two hands...

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 16:08 | 5407892 supermaxedout
supermaxedout's picture

Yes, that was the big trick. The invention of the wheel in the finance world. The biggest bang ever in the financial world. Since then we are all singing, "money makes the world go around, world go around".

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:37 | 5407226 No Euros please...
No Euros please we're British's picture

This is all bullshit. The SNB have totally sold out to the world ponzi. They capitulate to demands concerning full disclosure of foreign bank account holders, FATCA etc, etc and they peg the franc to the euro!!! FFS how does that work. It flys in the face of all that Switzerland has built its financial reputation on as a strong economy. If anyone believes this referendum will come to anything, dream on. It WILL NOT be allowed to force the SNB to even repatriate, let alone buy more. Ask Germany how that is working out.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:39 | 5407241 limacon
limacon's picture

Where to hide something everyone is looking for ?

See one old method :

https://www.academia.edu/9094752/Why_is_the_Parthenon_not_round_

 

But leave it to Shakespeare to really hide something :

https://www.academia.edu/9095548/Shakespeares_Secret_Diaries_

 

 

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 15:41 | 5407699 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

My dad used to say that the Pentagon was really a squared off circle.

The reason, he said, that it was a circle, "Was so they could fuck you from behind while bullshitting you from the front. A real monument to government. All government buildings should be built that way."

Now that's hardened wisdom.

An American, not US subject.

 

"The nagging question is, which is the front, and which is the back, of a guillotine?! Maybe both a condemned-front and an operator-front?!"

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:46 | 5407263 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

This vote is not about gold. It's about whether the Swiss are stupid or not.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 13:55 | 5407291 walküre
walküre's picture

This is one of the few examples of a credible statement from a central banker:

“"The Bank of Canada is proud to have safeguarded these national treasures for over 75 years and we are pleased that they have returned
to the Mint so that Canadians can collect them as precious historical
objects," said Mark Carney, Governor of the Bank of Canada.[11]”

CBs are safeguarding gold for decades. If the ground was filled with gold, they wouldn't bother. Gold is rare and gold is universally accepted as store of wealth for millenia.

Why would I buy anything else with the fruits of my labor and especially when it goes on sale? What better store is there to protect the future of my family than holding physical assets in the form of precious metals?

Stocks are rigged. Always have been. The guys that make it rich in the casinos are the same guys that control the prices and trades. Just like the race tracks. The casinos are the modern day platform of the bookies. The game is rigged. You may win a bit over time but you will almost never be able to predict when it all goes to shit and you lose it all.

The CBs are printing money from nothing. BoJ being the latest example.

I have ZERO faith in paper currency and despite the alleged deflationary sentiment, holding cash makes me very very nervous right now. Cash is supposed to be King during this time but everything is so badly manipulated that it's hard to fathom, cash could one day after the collapse buy me a kingdom. It won't is my guess. At that time, all cash will be declared worth a fraction of its former value and there will be a reset and new cash will be introduced. This happened many times before.

Stocks are fools gold. Fools who rush into this market and trying to ride a wave of never ending prosperity. Like I said, it works until it doesn't. Ask anyone who bought stocks from commodity related companies lately.

Gold and silver is it for me and there's no turning back. CB fuckers can manipulate down all they want. I am making more and more powder every day and keep converting. Min. one dime of every Dollar earned gets converted.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 14:05 | 5407325 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Button, button

Who has the button?

God doesn't like people interfering as the bankers go about doing his work.

There will be smitings and calamities.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 14:17 | 5407369 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

ROFL, you must have been as poor as us growing up. 

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 14:16 | 5407372 geekz_rule
geekz_rule's picture

this is.. just beyond amusing.. but really.. violently disturbing.

does anyone, anywhere, actually believe there is ANY soverign gold left anywhere?

the banksters have already gotten it ALL. every last drop.

while I applaud the Swiss Gold Initiative.. it has to be very clear to anyone.. it will be meaningless.

the bankstaers have gotten all the gold. period. its fucking gone kids.. regardless of useless laws...

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 14:38 | 5407452 Sizzurp
Sizzurp's picture

Go Swiss. I want to see this happen, and I especially want to see how the central bankers will try to wiggle out of it.   First thing you will hear is how much more time they need to implement the changes.  They will try for 10-20 years to transport the gold, and get the currency to 20% gold backing.  Make them do it in 1-2 years and watch'em squirm.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 14:55 | 5407480 Pumpkin
Pumpkin's picture

Everyone thinks the gold is gone.  IMO, this is not the case, they just aren't giving it back.  The strength of the fiat is not gained by collecting all the gold (over several hundred years) only to sell it back out for your printable worthless fiat.  The strength of the fiat is completely based on the containment of the gold.  Gold is the competition, and for fiat to rule, it must be contained.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 14:49 | 5407502 numapepi
numapepi's picture

If the gold reserves of the various National banks was real... Germany would be able to get it's gold in the same bars they sent to the Federal reserve bank in New York. They can't. In fact the Germans can't even get different gold back in less than seven years. (If what they are getting isn't gold plated tungsten). Couple that uncomfortable fact with the recent new story out of China where several tons of gold was found to be non existent. Moreover, how much of the existing gold has actually been hypothicated and rehypothicated?

I may be paranoid but, it seems to me that there is probably quite a bit of "fiat" gold floating around, and if the Swiss vote to bring "theirs" back the world's financial system will be in for a shock, because China won't send it, Canada probably doesn't have it and London has probably hypothicated it, so that gold isn't available either.

One last point, if your gold is held in someone else's safe and you go to war with them... what happens to that gold? MF Global anyone?

Good luck with the referendum...

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 14:57 | 5407546 Pumpkin
Pumpkin's picture

So they say.  You are relying on the words of liars and thieves.  If they think its gone, how do they get it back?  It they know its not gone, how do they get it back?

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 15:30 | 5407666 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

If you don't got it, you don't have it.

An American, not US subject.

 

STDs excepted.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 15:06 | 5407581 Stifmeister
Stifmeister's picture

Since it looks like a lot of people here buy or already hold gold, I am wondering, how does one buy gold? How do I know it's the real stuff? And most importantly where do you keep it? If you keep it in a bank vault, I feel like it ruins the entire purpose of "you own it if you hold it".

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 16:47 | 5408062 Barbarossa296
Barbarossa296's picture

If you keep it in a bank vault, it belongs to the bank.  Don't be an idiot.  If your home is not secure enough to hold your own valuables (that includes your wife and children), then you need to fortify it and make provisions to keep all of your valuables safe from ALL intruders.  The old saying, "A man's home is his castle." was once for real and accepted by everyone in this country (USA).  There are a number of companies that will advise you on how to make your home a "castle".  You should be able to buy gold coins at a dozen locations locally if you live in a big city - look for a source that you can go back to if the merchandise isn't as advertised.  Archimedes can help you on whether your gold is the real stuff or not - he had the same problem with a gold crown.

Wed, 11/05/2014 - 05:36 | 5413743 Bopper09
Bopper09's picture

It's not hard to hide.  Nowadays the majority of north american sheeple have no clue of what true wealth is, and would think of it, in plain site, as something shiny and useless.  A criminal is even more stupid, and would likely walk right past a 1000 oz bar of silver or gold to go steal your tv or jewelry.  Not like I keep much of mine in plain site, but in my opinion, someone breaks into my house they steal the tv off the walls and rip through the wife's jewelry box, maybe some of the sports stuff I have.  I severely doubt he's going to be going through my yard with a metal detector.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 15:26 | 5407649 Lea
Lea's picture

"The Swiss central bankers and the ‘no’campaign maintains that it’s imperative to maintain foreign gold storage at major gold trading centres that can be quickly traded in the event of a financial crisis."

If I ever saw an argument that doesn't hold any water, that's this. I presume they fail to explain how is the gold more easily tradable if it's abroad.
The truth is, the Germans are not alone. The Swiss gold that wasn't at home is gone, of course.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 15:28 | 5407660 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

"Where Is Swiss Gold? – Location, Location, Location"

On paper, who knows.

In reality, China.

An American, not US subject.

 

Maybe some in Russia too.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 15:45 | 5407727 TradingTroll
TradingTroll's picture

Sometimes the existence of a small error calls into question the entire article

 

"“"The Bank of Canada is proud to have safeguarded these national
treasures for over 75 years and we are pleased that they have returned
to the Mint so that Canadians can collect them as precious historical
objects," said Mark Carney, Governor of the Bank of Canada.[11]” "

 

Actually the sale of these items was reported by press release so that the Mint could buy marketable securities not so collectors could buy them.

 

"the highest quality of these $5 and $10 gold coins are now being offered for sale to convert the proceeds into quality fixed-income securities"

http://blog.gainesvillecoins.com/2012/11/28/bank-of-canada-selling-rare-...


Mon, 11/03/2014 - 16:14 | 5407923 Barbarossa296
Barbarossa296's picture

Anyone who is stupid enough to let anyone other than themselves hold their physical gold deserves to lose every last ounce of it.  Yes, the German gold is gone.  The Swiss gold is gone.  The French gold is gone.  But I'm sure that they all have nice pieces of paper that state that all of their gold is still in good hands and belongs to them.  By the way, I've this bridge in Brooklyn that I recently inherited - I'll sell it to you cheap and you can charge everybody that drives across it a fee.  I just really don't have time to do that myself....

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 20:23 | 5408828 Monty Burns
Monty Burns's picture

Why haven't the Germans kicked up shit about their gold being 'unavailable'?

Wed, 11/05/2014 - 12:13 | 5414898 Barbarossa296
Barbarossa296's picture

Occupied countries aren't allowed to "kick up shit".

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 16:22 | 5407972 Notsobadwlad
Notsobadwlad's picture

There is probably no real reason why a country would not loan out a fallow asset such as gold to someone who can make some money with it.

My guess is that there is a litter mountain of gold buried somewhere in the Swiss Alps and that the published above ground quantity is a pure sham.

A commodity must have the appearance of scarcity to propagate a myth of value.

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 17:21 | 5408271 talisman
talisman's picture

Has the earmarks of a classic shell game: shuffle....shuffle...shuffle.... the hand is faster than the eye....now which shell is the gold under???

Mon, 11/03/2014 - 18:02 | 5408416 WTFUD
WTFUD's picture

I'm not certain if this investigation into the Great Gold Ponzi is a good thing. Why rock the boat and not just allow Central Banks to carry on regardless? If a banker's word is 'not sufficient' then it would mean we have to question EVERYFUCKINGTHING. In fact this constant meddling is an intrusion upon the banking frat's FREEDOMS. GO AWAY SERFS!!!

P.S. Around 26 ounces of gold are held in the GUMS of House & Senate Reps. GET THE FUCKING PLIERS OUT.

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