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Spain Moves Military Assets Into Catalonia Ahead Of Weekend's 'Illegal' Secession Vote
"Everything is all set for Nov. 9," says a senior Catalan regional government official as the region prepares to defy both the central government and the country's highest court and proceed with a much-disputed weekend vote on whether to secede from Spain. And while the Spanish government has not specified what legal consequences Catalan leaders, poll workers or voters might face Sunday, when they go to vote, The LA Times reports that Madrid has reportedly readied thousands of Civil Guard police officers to travel to Catalonia this weekend if needed.
Spain's northeastern region of Catalonia vowed Tuesday to defy both the central government and the country's highest court and proceed with a much-disputed weekend vote on whether to secede from Spain.
Hours earlier, Spain's Constitutional Court ordered Catalonia to freeze its plans for an independence vote, scheduled for Sunday. It was the second time the court issued an order siding with Madrid, which considers any Catalan independence vote illegal.
But Catalan leaders said they would not back down.'
"Everything is all set for Nov. 9," Francesc Homs, a spokesman for the Catalan regional government, said at a news conference. "We are maintaining our participatory process. We couldn’t say this any clearer -- and we’re doing so regardless of the consequences."
Homs said the Catalan government would use the Constitutional Court to sue the central government "for threatening the right ... to freedom of speech."
The Spanish government has not specified what legal consequences Catalan leaders, poll workers or voters might face Sunday, when they go to vote. But Madrid has reportedly readied thousands of Civil Guard police officers to travel to Catalonia this weekend if needed.
* * *
And sure enough, the convoys are rolling
Preocupant presència de combois militars a les carreteres catalanes dies abans del #9N #VolemVotar #SíSí #intimidació pic.twitter.com/lHT2HGA2jn
— Llibertat.cat (@Llibertatcat) November 5, 2014
The presence of military convoys on the roads in Catalonia, specifically cars Pizarro has been steady throughout the day. Have been military convoys on the roads to Lleida and Zaragoza from, but also Panadella and Low Llobreta and Diagonal.
Remember a few days ago several military helicopters flew some Catalan regions : namely a group of six of these distinctive military helicopters were seen in the Vallès Oriental Vallès Occidental and in different parts of the metropolitan area of Barcelona, ??to Llobregat and Alt Camp.
* * *
So French youth are revolting, Bulagria's poor are self-immolating, Spain now has a neo-Nazi party... and now the military are required to control the population... sounds like 'recovery' to us.
* * *
As Mike Krieger concluded previously:
On a more serious note, Americans need to understand that Spain is merely a few years ahead of us. The question isn’t whether the status quo will be overthrown, the question is what will replace it. Something better, or something worse? Our key mission must be to ensure we get a better system after this one blows up, not something even worse.
Watch Spain closely in the months ahead. It will be another canary in the coal mine for the entire Western world.
* * *
We leave it to this Twitter user to sum it up:
@zerohedge we, catalan people, only want to vote to see what we want to be! Asking people should never be banned! Spain is not a democracy
— 9Núria (@nuriabg6) November 5, 2014
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Spain has a military?
Civil guard police officers, lol! Do they ride on Segues?
We hold these truths to be self-evident,.....Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed......., it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
They better be willing to back up their vote with guns or the vote is meaningless.
If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal
Francisco Franco would be proud.
The "democratic" governments are working very hard to keep actual democracy from occuring.
Bingo, democray is like communism, an idealization. But wouldnt it be easier to just move in some vials of Ebola instead of all that machinery.
At least they are better than the (2/3) two thirds of Pussy Americans who do not vote. Amazing Eh.
I'm one of those 'Pussy Americans' that refuses to vote for the lesser of two enemies and usurpers of the U.S. constitution. Fuck off, zombie voter.
Both parties worship a broken voting system and rigged laws that allow them to ignore the constitution. They have ensured that third-party votes are irrelevant. Zombie voting has nothing to do with supporting or upholding the U.S. constitution, the republic it created or the inalienable rights of it's citizens.
Red/Blue Zombie voting IS the principal enemy of my country and will ultimately destroy it.
So you think that Americans, when presented with the choice of voting for one of two candidates that are obviously guilty of treason, refuse to cast their vote for either tyrant are "Pussy Americans"?
I suggest it is you, that would actually vote for one of these murdering tyrants, that is the "Pussy American".
You are clueless as to what communism is.
This is actually NOT a democratic 'vote' because it excludes the rest of Spain.
W T F lol
Right its not 'democratic' cause the moneychangers cant tell you what to do.
you are damn right there sir!
Voting without the BISs blessing is as undemocratic as it gets, god forbid! Kill em all!
"
On a more serious note, Americans need to understand that Spain is merely a few years ahead of us. The question isn’t whether the status quo will be overthrown, the question is what will replace it. "
Ready or not, Command Economies here we come!
And as if we haven't transitioned quite a ways towards that already.
Catalonia voting = Black Swan event.
The American Founders did not ask for representation in parliament, because they knew they'd be outvoted. They voted for independence.
Like they just did.
"They better be willing to back up their vote with guns or the vote is meaningless. "
My sentiments exactly. Given that the Catalonia region accounts for over 19% of Spain's GDP and is home to their second largest city (Barcelona), there is no way on Earth that Spain will willingly allow Catalonia to establish its independence. The most Catalonia will ever be allowed by the Spanish government is to be an "autonomous region", which was granted to them back in 2006. Without guns to back up their voice, it is nothing more than a protest vote to display their discontent.
20% of the population, armed and willing to fight for independence was more than enough for the American colonies to break away from English rule.
Keep in mind that Catalonia marks Sept. 11th, 1714 as Independence (actually, 'National') Day, because that's the day Catalonia LOST it's independence to Spain. They've been pissed about it for 300 years.
Last year on National Day, Marc Herman of the Pacific Standars wrote:
Madrid has failed all Spaniards. It's like Washington DC squared - a permanently screwed up, corrupt government that represents nobody but the politicians. Why should Catalans fork over more than their fair share of taxes for a parasitic federal government that does nothing for them?
The rest of Spain objects to Catalonia's referendum because they would instantly lose 20% of the actual taxpayers and 20% of the free shit army's budget. Parasites require a host.
Likewise, the Jewish-Ukrainian oligarchs that run their Ukraine scam are terrified about losing the Donbass. They could give a crap about Ukraine nationalism and borders - they just don't want to lose all that juicy tax-revenue producing meat. Parasites require a host.
.
How many people need to vote in order to have consent?
Well done, Stackers! I was searching for some comment that would draw our attention to this.
But you realize that our constitutional lawyers do not recognize the Declaration as legal precedent: not here, not in Guantanamo, and certainly not anywhere it interferes with "our national security interests".
I am sure that we will be just as supportive of the measures that Rajoy will take to hold onto Catalonia as we have been toward those of Yatsenyuk then Poroschenko in Ukraine and Sisi in Egypt, among others.
Those soldiers better think twice about using force. They can be tracked down and killed at their homes, along with their families, and deservedly so. The Spanish do a nasty civil war.
They have at least one Bradley APC, LOL. What did the US have in Ferguson? Looks like Spain knows how to beat down their own people better than the US. ;-)
Aren't they built by General Dynamics aka Lester AIPAC Crown who back LBJ, Obam and McCain. Won the F-111 contract in total controversey then JFK "died" and a plane needed a war. Also just sold the Brits $9 billion worth of these POS Bradleys.
Another story that will be a non-event. I think we all know how this "vote" will turn out.
Well it may be good for something...I'm sure the S&P will get a "rise" out of it...freak show of a "market" its become.
What a relief it will be! Can you imagine the chaos Catalonian independence would cause?
Yeah, me neither.
well Rex, geopolitical concerns have historically been HUGELY supportive of gold prices!! "Flight to safety" and all that.....
:(
I believe I saw this comment on ZH a few weeks ago. No one has ever voted themselves freedom.
If you vote you get 'leaders' - how can that be freedom?
Therein lies why the vote is illegal and the military moved in. Spanish oligarchs have not been succesful in moving in their vote counters in time.
Perhaps we will hear something from Spain along the lines of "you can vote next year" so they can have time to rig it.
Yeah, Spain is never going to let Catalonia go. No country is letting any of their territory go, unless it is done at gunpoint. Why would any region want independence unless they knew were getting sucked dry by the rest of the country? And why would any country fight so hard to keep them in unless they knew they were sucking them dry to keep the rest of the country going?
Amazing how fast Spain put their military into action against their own people. "Now THERE'S a war worth spilling some blood over" is, I'm guessing, what Rajoy and his rabble are thinking.
All I have to say is ...Remember Scotland. At least this wasn't built up as a MAJOR EVENT that was going to change everything. Maybe that small fact will make it so.... one can only drink a shot of (fill in you favorite drink here ________________________________) and hope.
Scotland was supposed to vote "No" but it became a nail-biter towards the end, much to everyone's surprise.
Catalonia has always been likely to vote "yes", if they were allowed to vote. Now they've been told they aren't allowed to vote, but are doing it anyway. This will get squashed, but not without at least the threat of force and a bunch of the secessionist leaders going to jail.
So, messier, but the final outcome no less certain, I think.
A few years ago, I was one day away from flying back to the US from Madrid, when the Spanish air traffic controllers went on strike (during the busiest travel weekend of the year). The Spanish government stepped in and called the act "an illegal industrial action". Those striking had the choice of reporting to work the next day, or be thrown in jail. The strike ended then and there. Spain doesn't f--- around.
Catalans don't fuck around. Check out what they did to the last batch of federal police that came from Madrid. Chopped them up and ATE them. And the feds were just there to shop for seafood, not to opress the Catalans.
Catalans are the Rojava Kurds of Spain. Bad idea to piss them off.
I wonder if this is another ham-handed CIA scheme? Do the Catalans have oil somewhere?
But +1 for you because you're right about the Spanish government - incompetent, but they demand obedience anyways.
Without growing economies, the richer parts of every country would like to secede from their less well to do countrymen, so they can have MOAR relative to others. The "Haves" will likely find that the downstream costs of trying to vote themselves free of the "Have Nots" will cost them more than they were hoping to gain. So many of the well to do are brainwashed into thinking that their place in society (and at the trough) is somehow their right, that they earned it, built it, own it, deserve it, etc. That's a disconnect from the reality of how interdependent the haves and have nots are. If they aren't careful, they'll all end up in the pig sty, with almost nothing of a trough for any of them.
In America, the richest part of the country seceded years/decades ago and incrementally, through the bills passed through the senate and houses at both the state and national levels. Hell, they were even successful in seceding the jobs of many Americans overseas. Again, MOAR was being goal seeked.
Trouble is in doing as such, they seceded some of best parts of their morality and the common good too.
This.
alternative perspective:
parse for how the catalonia situation is viewed in context of greater EU mechanics and the implications for transnational corporations with significant operations/markets there.
Ain't nuthin' some Spiderman towels can't wipe out! :>D
I'm not so sure... the Catalans have probably been picking up some pointers from the Basques, in which case stay away from public places in Madrid if Rajoy trys to supress the vote this Sunday.
When the going gets tough, the tough get Guernica'd.
Nothing a little military intimidation (or eboloa in Catalonia) can't fix.
CatEBOLia there fixed it for you
http://www.silverdoctors.com/breaking-alert-us-mint-sold-out-of-silver-e...
Just read this article about silver running out- can anyone verify?
Would be cool..............
Oh shit!
'U.S. Mint temporarily sold out of Silver Eagles amid huge demand'
Nov 5 (Reuters)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/05/usa-mint-silver-coins-idUSL1N0SV2RP20141105
But still the price goes down...amazing, isn't it?
How long do they think they can do this?
Its the amazing antigravity experiments being conducted on precious metals. They have this unique property you know.
Intimidation. It's how democracy socialism works.
<What's in your wallet government?>
Intimidation is how GOVERNMENT works.
FIFY
socialism?
military-industrial complex, corporate fascism/feudalism
Quick.....print some MOAR fucking Euros. That should fix it.
If Scotland was any indication, this will be forgotten Nov 10th.
not so sure. Separatist sentiment and civil war run deep in Spain. Could be the spark that torches the EU.
And it doesn't in Scotland?
You can make the argument it can 'run deep' all over the world, but it has to be so bad that people do more than just vote to boot out the ruling class.
The problem in Scotland is the older folks have all become comfortably numb and on the dole...
The Catalans, not bloody likely. They take their own language seriously, whereas the Scots seem to prefer English to Gaelic...
No. Most Scots are sheep. They can barely wipe their own arses never mind think indpendently.
I doubt the soldiers work for free; therefore, I would expect them to pull a Ukraine and defect to Catalan should push come to shove.
They don't work for free. They get Spiderman towels.
That low on the totem its handkerchiefs.
i never cared for spanish whine
You want freedom - you must fight for it. It was long before us, it is now, and it will be after us.
FREEDOMMMMMMMMMMMM ........
or not......
Obama? Kerry? Go out and defend democracy....
They are, just like in Ukraine...
We should send F-15 fighters to Catalonia to show our support against the Spanish aggressor.
We'll just send them Ebola, it does wonders in breaking up large rallies.
The only oil in Spain, is olive oil.
Catalonian Bullshit. Libertat.cat? Come on ZH, you could do better than this.
its all good...
if the state attempts to prevent the aspirations of the catalonians from being realized they should just FUCK THE POLICE UP...
PERIOD.
This must be the kind of European "freedom" Soros was just referring to.
They need to pack the young and unemployed off to fight Russia for them, otherwise if they stay home they get wise to the theft and graft and just might throw out the moneychangers. Cant have that.
Ladys and Gentleman
Close the borders
Clean out the doj
Charge SHIELD
This is America's last chance
Scott Walker 2016
Merica meet Spain
Shillary 2016
The name of the newspaper is being changed to LIBTARD.
I thought the EU would break up before the individual countries would.
Cracking up is cracking up.
That is why they are working on the EU rapid reactionary force. To keep this from happening.
Disguised idiots are doing their duties - just like remote controlled robots.
So, uh, when do we invade Kosovo and hand it back to the Serbs?
Abe Lincoln did the same thing Spain's central government is doing now.
Because nothing fuels government backed terrorism like demanding your freedom
they'll have a private referendum (which is an achievement for itself), and later will petition for a full Spanish referendum on a change of the constitution, making a Catalan referendum constitutional. this stuff takes time, if you are serious
Either that or they could march on Madrid and sort it out that way.
Did Scots march on London?
No, but the Scots didn't want to exercise their divine right to self-determination.
The Catalans do.
A subtle difference my friend(!)
I remember some 45% of Scots voting for self-determination. They don't count? And I'm not sure when this became a divine right
It has been a divine right since the dawn of mankind.
It is only the political elites who have sought to withdraw that right and replace it with despotism.
interesting point of view. one I don't believe into, in the sense that I don't believe in divine or natural rights, but one I approve of, with all my heart
I'm not sure what you are saying.
In the case of Britain we have always been governed by "someone". In history that was a king or queen. Think of the despotic Charles I. But ask yourself: who gave those kings/queens the "right" to govern the rest of us? Answer: nobody. It was simply a power they exercised through the barrel of a gun (or other weapons in those days).
Every person is born equal and no one has the God-given right to dictate to any of us how we shall conduct ourselves. Over the centuries, the population decided to introduce a system of "government" to achieve things collectively that cannot be achieved as individuals. This had lead in virtually every country to a state where "government" has assumed ever more powers and control, often to the detriment of the people. Dictatorship by the minority in Britain etc.
I am not against "government", but I believe we all have far too much of it. That is why in Britain, I have long supported a strong written Constitution which is owned by the people, not by the political elites. And it would spell out the roles/responsibilities of government. If it ain't on the list, it ain't their business.
Scots are sheep.
Its absolute bullshit, they are not civil guard but military transports 6 years ago changing to a new base. We have Libertat.cat an online catalan fascist journal. Google the history of the part Esquerra Republicana and you ll see Hitlers party in Catalonia.
No wonder Latin America is a disaster its full of this type of idiotic fanatics
Ha ha! I can't wait to see the imagery of Spanish police trying to PREVENT citizens from voting...I wonder if they'll use batons and pepper spray?
You can vote, but you can't hide.
An American, not US subject.
More proof that gun-control is about centralizing the only vote that matters.
As more and more places begin to opt out of the Collapsing Collective, expect to see TPTB begin to really panic, and like any big dumb animal, that's when they'll be at their most dangerous. And their most vulnerable. Should be really interesting if/when the in-fighting starts. With any luck, we might get lucky enough to watch the elitists eat each other. Probably not, but it's a nice thought.
Martial law bitchez....
I still don't get how the Scotts could have been so stupid to stay with GB.
It's great to see Catalonians to speak for their freedom!
Fuck the EU!
"I still don't get how the Scotts could have been so stupid to stay with GB."
Follow the money...
It's Spain they want to secede from, not the EU
I know that well. But it's EU who is keeping the flow of debt into Spain alive.
how so? Spain creates it's own credit through it's own national banking system, and so it's debt, too. please explain this "flow of debt"
Simple. All 10 million Scots are sheep.
As I've said many times before, Mariano Rajoy is not a conservative. He's just another wannabe fascist despot who strives for ever bigger government and moar EU. The will of the Spanish people is of no importance to him.
and I will start to say many times that for many of you Brits and Americans, for some funny reason no continental conservative is ever "kosher". Never. They are always either socialists or nationalists or fascists or nazis but you just can't see them as conservatives, and for sure not with a popular mandate of any sort
what is the will of the Spanish People, when it comes to Catalonia?
what was the will of the British People, when it came to Scotland?
The Brits left the decision up to the people of Scotland. The Spanish government wants to make sure the people of Catalonia don't have a chance to make a decision.
Ghordius, we see conservatives in the traditional sense of wanting small government, freedom of the individual, liberty, self-determination and free markets etc. There is NO conservative in Europe that I'm aware of who has any interest in any of those things. Ergo, they are not conservatives. That includes the UK and US also.
What we have in our political systems are simply two flavours of socialism who fight over which nail of the coffin to bang in next.
the flavour of "conservative" you describe sounds idealist, vs. reality.
I'm struggling to think of which nationstate has any "conservatives" that represent those ideals listed. . .
particularly when "freedom of the individual" is extended to all within the nation's borders.
anyone have any examples to hand? genuinely curious. . .
Sort of agree, but I wouldn't say it was idealist, more a goal to aspire to.
That is where the problem begins because it seems to me that we don't have any political types who even share that aim nowadays. They all go into government to expand its powers and reach.
Ultimately we will end up with some sort of totalitarian dictatorship. Mankind will then become the slaves/cash cows of the ruling elites.
nothing to disagree with in the defining of "idealist" being a "goal to aspire to" - it's not a real experience then, it's a hoped for in some future desired.
this notion of "naming" things is what "history" is all about - the naming and re-naming of "things" so as to identify what to exploit, how to exploit it, what can be derived from the "other", who benefits? in the naming is the intended use/exploit, often.
I don't study the naming of cultural rulership"types" throughout history, but I do note the pattern pf exploitation rarely shifts - all of "history" consists of threats to personal sovereignty (rape and pillage), therefore humans are coerced into identifying with a supposed "protection racket" (government, religion, patriarchal family units). traditionally "men" have perpetuated these systems via wars, Gods, rules, commandments, etc. therefore, traditionally, "women" needed to align with "men" for protection from. . . other men. then commandments for breeding more folks to be. . . commanded.
fairly simplistic, I agree - but it's a bare bones description that can be observed since "records" of these things began.
so yes,
I think for the majority humans, this notion has never been otherwise. there are some who dream of a more "utopian" culture, but as long as predators exist, and are fed and feared, then nothing changes, and humans continue to devolve under brute forces.
cheers guys.
as CA points out, what you describe as conservative is actually a mixture of several classical political stances
the continental conservatives do strive to have balanced budgets, for example. does this count towards "small government", which is a continental liberal issue?
continental ordo-liberalism strives versus a completely different approach versus markets. "free market" is seen as free market fundamentalism, here
"freedom of the individual and liberty"... I'd say we have lots of it, but in a different way from the US or UK. we have less cultural individualism, though
on this continent, you'd be classified as "radical liberal" (with an allergy to socialism), not as conservative
I don't see you exposing classical conservative issues like family, religion, structured solidarity, protection from rapaciousness, or the proper standing of a national army, or nationalism in general, particularly in the "Volk" sense, the Nation
one key continental conservative issue that is currently on the losing side, here, is restricting access to predatory debt accumulation, for example. +1, nevertheless
Me a "radical liberal" in the traditional sense? Yes.
As I once explained to you, I see government from the point of view of "how much" of it we have. My guess is that in most western countries we have overall about 60-70% but this will vary depending on the issue. For me, that is way too much government because it stifles so many aspects of our lives. My personal preference is for no more than about 25% government. This implies government withrawing from many things it currently gets involved in and reducing spending accordingly. That might actually allow it to do the remainder better and more efficiently.
then I still don't understand your focus on "conservative" and "right-wing". at least here or in the classical sense, it's a completely different political direction
but I can imagine if you'd be living here that you'd be a cautious supporter of the German OrdoLiberalism, the biggest political export product and what is really moving continental europe
sadly, the English-speaking wiki article is full of misunderstandings. I must once set myself for a better traduction, perhaps not directly from German
in short, the European People's Party bunch, i.e. all continental conservatives, "bought in" in this view of the world. grudgingly, of course. it has been dubbed liberal conservativism, among other things. it contains some of the "order" that is dear to our conservatives, and severely lacking - in their view - in the English-speaking economies and worldviews, which equate "market freedom" with "complete, dog-eat-dog freedom, let's see smouldering ruins", which is seen as unnecessarily "chaotic"
My focus on conservative and right-wing is only because they represent one of the two mirrored models we have, but they are not very close nowadays to Classic Liberalism, which is closest to where I stand:
"Classical liberalism is a political philosophy and ideology belonging to liberalism in which primary emphasis is placed on securing the freedom of the individual by limiting the power of the government."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism
What was it western leaders said about Ukraine elections being at the barrel of a gun?
Are we sure that top picture isn't California? Looks like a routine I-5 troop movement to me...
...oh wait, metric system, never mind. Must be Catalonia.
Even if Cataluya votes to secede, what Catalunya plans are in place to affect actual secession from Espana?
The vote to secede will only be symbolic without actual secession.
I see no reference on the interweb to actual plans for alternative structures within Catalunya to affect secession. Maybe they have to keep this detail secret so as not to forewarn Madrid?
The vote is just to find out and then publicize what the sentiment is for an independent Catalunya. It is widely believed that the sentiment is already known.
The memories of brutal Spanish Civil War are still alive, both in Madrid and Barcelona. Not everyone that participated is dead yet and there's plenty of literature.
And speaking of ebola, it seems to have disappeared from the radar. Just like Fukushima.
This is the land where Cowabunga originated .
https://www.academia.edu/6047250/Cowabunga_
https://www.academia.edu/9140381/An_End_to_7000_years_of_war_._Orkney_Wi...
And so it goes
The central governments sure love to make clear how utterly and totally statist and authoritarian they are.
If those folks have any brains at all, and look at all the weapons and intimidation from the central government, they'll be crazy not to vote for independence.
Good point. And what is the military going to do? Hand out flowers? Or just shoot down or arrest the most productive group of people in the country? Money is the issue, and this just runs the bills up even higher.
If we are lucky, we will end up with someone like Mussolini or Franco. If we are unlucky, we will get Hitler or Stalin.
Hitler and Mussolini were on Franco's (Nationalist) side in the Civil War. Stalin was on the other (Republican) side.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Civil_War
Nice to see the people telling a central government to go fuck itself.
Now, when will people do the same in the US?
So far, most are too stupid to know what to do. But we may eventually get there. Hopefully. Someday.
George Colon Soros says ' Russia only 2nd biggest threat to European Union after Catalonia '.
You see, this is the good thing about a vote to secede in the southern U.S. The majority of the military is already there.
Ha ha ha seriously I misread the headline as CALIFORNIA roflmao...
if Putin were to get involved in domestic Spanish/EU politics:
RUSSIA LAUNCHES MARITIME AND AIR HUMANITARIAN AID CONVOY TO CATALONIA
;-)
1.8 MILLION people (police estimate) turned up at the last Barcelona march.
"Good luck men, I'll be right behind you".
This will be a replay of Scotland. The old, the minorities and government workers and anyone else with their lips welded to the welfare tittie will vote no.
The easiest way for the Catalonians to handle a military response is to stay home, than explain to the government that you are afraid to go to work due to the military presence. Let's see, the most productive sector of Spain sits home for six months, no tax revenue to the government. Now what, you smart-ass communist anti-freedom overspending moron government jerks? Going to drive them all to work in your own car?
Kletocracy "exit" is not an option, the EU doesn't protect your rights after all, the EU is your warden's boss.
I give major credit to the Catalans. Where else have you ever seen a protest of a million strong, Anywhere!
Some of you might be right in that the spanish Gov will be forceful, but maybe the Catalans will not back down.
There is going to be a revolution soon in some country, and that will be the spark.
I think all Gov's know this and are trying to prepare for it. I thought it was going to happen last year in italy, when the cops charged a protesting croud and just started clubbing everyone in sight, people were drop-kicking cops and throwing them around.
This criminality by the political class and the banksters will soon get ugly, very ugly.
Coming to a city near you!
Spain is not Uganda.