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Obama's Week Just Got Worse: Supreme Court To Rule On ObamaCare Subsidies
Getting 'shellacked' in the Midterms, coming 2nd to Putin as the world's most powerful person, and now, as AP reports, The Supreme Court agrees to rule on insurance subsidies in a new challenge to ObamaCare. Simply put they will judge whether subsidies for middle- and lower-income people are legal...
As AP reports,
The Supreme Court has agreed to hear a new challenge to President Barack Obama's health care law.
The justices on Friday say they will decide whether the law authorizes subsidies that help millions of low- and middle-income people afford their health insurance premiums.
A federal appeals court upheld Internal Revenue Service regulations that allow health-insurance tax credits under the Affordable Care Act for consumers in all 50 states. Opponents argue that most of the subsidies are illegal.
The long-running political and legal campaign to overturn or limit the 2010 health overhaul will be making its second appearance at the Supreme Court.
The justices upheld the heart of the law in a 5-4 decision in 2012 in which Chief Justice John Roberts provided the decisive vote.
* * *
The Supreme Court announced on Friday that it would hear a lawsuit seeking to strip health care from millions of Americans.
The Affordable Care Act gives states a choice whether they will set up their own health exchange where consumers can buy health insurance or whether to allow the federal government to do so for them.
This lawsuit alleges that subsidies helping individuals buy health insurance are only available in exchanges run by a state, not by the feds.
If it succeeds, the likely result will be a “death spiral” where higher premiums cause healthy consumers to drop out of the insurance market, which will cause higher premiums, which will cause more consumers to drop their insurance.
Eventually, many states’ individual insurance markets are likely to collapse if this lawsuit prevails.
* * *
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Once Hilary loses to <insert hack GOP nominee here>, Obamacare will finally be destroyed.
I lean left, and I am giddy when that happens. Fuck the insurance industry.
You do know that Obama Care is really Romeny Care, that is really a tax on the people?
Oh well then WTF does that matter?
My brother just had an operation on his big toe and the team of doctors and nurses put in a titanium plate a little bigger than a postage stamp. He was looking at the bill and that little piece of metal was billed out at a whopping $9,000. That was just the price of the part, not the operation.
It seems to me we could be doing something besides Obolacare to make healthcare more affordable. Like realistic prices for the services rendered. perhaps?
the problem is he was seeing the billing rate to insurance. I had the same surgery on both my shoulders once without insurance once without. It cost me about 7000 without insurance. With insurance it still cost me 2000 but the bills they sent to the insurance company was 56000 dollars, of which there was a 52000 dollar in net discount.
Morale of the story the bills you see goginto insurance companines are accounting tricks, If you pay out of pocket and have enough mettle to negotiate the prices most procedures become affordable.
I had the same experince for getting treated for broncitius. Also I hope they rule so that the whole damn thing collapes under its fat obease weight.
And once again the Democrats and Progressive will try to blame "the far right" for pointing out the flaws in the law they ham fisted through Congress in an attempt to pass ANYTHING at all cost. It is the ACA's own language that makes the Federal subsides illegal.
Here's why ObamaCare is done:
The issue is tax credits for people who reside in states that refused to set-up health care exchanges.
To date, supporters of ObamaCare have claimed the omission of these credits to states who refuse to set-up an exchange was a mere 'drafting error.'
BULL SHIT!!!
Once the following recordings surfaced, it became obvious that the 'omission' was in fact intentional as a way to force states to implement health care exchanges:
http://reason.com/blog/2014/07/25/obamacare-architect-jonathan-gruber-says
Well, many states called Obama's bluff and refused to establish exchanges.
This provision was a ticking timebomb buried in ObamaCare that will eventually sink the entire ship...
You watch - Kagan, Sotomayor and Ginsburg will ignore the plain language of the law.
>>>You watch - Kagan, Sotomayor and Ginsburg will ignore the plain language of the law.
Truly, that would be the last straw!
Just kidding. Judges don't need no steenkin' laws.
If you idiots think brocare will be repealed, then you still don't fucking understand who has the power in USSA.
The INSURNACE COMPANIES AND HOSPITALS WANT IT. It wasn't passed because some asshole politician on the blue or red team wanted it. Industry wanted it, industry WROTE IT, and they will decide what happens to it.
The red team pretends to want to repeal it because it appeals to their voters. Just like they pretend to care about abortion and border control. That's all bullshit, and once they have your vote they will do what industry wants. Same as always.
If the words used in the Constitution itself are subject to distortion, why in the world should we insist on any particular meaning of words in the ACA?
Remember the part of the Declaration of Independence that goes "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."?
Now it would be "Some of us occassionally think that these opinions may or may not be reasonably imaginable...".
Yup. Both of my children were born via C-section.
The first was while I had insurance from my employer. After all of the games and fraud by the insurance company, it cost me about $2,000 out of pocket.
4 years later I was newly self-employed with no insurance. Doctor client told me how to go to the hospital and negotiate before hand for "Medicare" rates. I did so and paid $3, 000 to the hospital and $2,000 to the doctor. It was like I was my own insurance company, without the fraud and hassles.
An American, not US subject.
One of the best things I have seen is the Christian groups pooling insurance. You pay $150 a month and there is a big pool. This is what insurance is supposed to be. You have computers, software, clerks that are being paid a decent wage and probably some administration.
Compare this to say United Healthcare HMO where the CFO with stock options made over $12 million. Congress must have quietly told them to tone it down because it was about $40 million last year.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/pr?s=UNH+Profile
These Christian pooling health plans are the closest thing I have seen to what health insurance should be.
This is what insurance used to be as well, before the AMA and Insurance lobby got involved to "protect us"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72kvjDC8Cq8
Ive also heard of doctors selling some sort of subsription. So you would pay them every year a pre-negotiated amount, and in exchange you could go and see him/her as often as you needed to. I dont remember the cost but it was an order of magnitude cheaper than regular insurance
Yes, that's called "concierge medical service," and it's not just for wealthy people.
People agree to pay a physician or group of physicians direct payments, bypassing insurance altogether.
There is NO way SCOTUS rules the individual mandate as invalid/unconstitutional/otherwise unenforceable.
To do so would be akin to harming big Insurance, big Pharma AND big Corporations/Employers in general - forcing individuals into buying their one health insurance and then dealing them skyrocketing prices year after year on monthly premiums, annual deductibles, co-pays on meds and Dr visits, procedures and tests, etc. - is good for BIG BUSINESS all around.
Look at this: Obamacare architect leaves White House for pharmaceutical industry job
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/05/obamacare-fowler-lo...
So, the left-right paradigm marches on.
Left, Right
Left, Right
Bang! Bang!
Fuck you!
My daughter was in the hospital for three weeks - almost died - she is fine now.
She was having trouble breathing - they gave her several treatments using a drug similar to albuterol.
The cost of the just the drug was over $20,000 - the insurance company allowed $1,200. Which is the amount she will have to pay.
$20K for the drugs - but willing to accept $1,200. These fuckers need to be punched in the face.
My wife had some lab work done - 4 different tests - the bill came - it was $900 total. Insurance company allowed between $10 and $25 per test - total we had to paid was $70 something.
One test was billed at $575 the insurance company allowed $25. What sort of business charges $575 for something - but is willing to accept $25 as full payment? How could anyone even come up with such a stupid fucking way to charge people? The people that are involved with this need to be punched in the face.
I went in to get a flu shot - it was "covered" under my insurance - cost to me = zero.
3 months later I get a bill for $33 for the flu shot - I called and explained it was covered by insurance - they agree no charge - 3 months later I get another bill for $33 - I call explain it is covered - they agree - 3 months later get a bill for $33 - I call and explain it was covered they agree -
I recently went in and got a flu shot - it was covered by my insurance - no charge to me - a few weeks later I got a $33 bill for last years flu shot - These fuckers need a good punch in the face.
My health insurance is on automatic payment - BC/BS just takes the money out of my bank account on the first of every month.
I still get an invoice (with a return envelope included) from them every fucking month - telling me I need to pay them - I get this bill a few weeks before the due day - the money gets taken from my checking account just like it should - but if the first of the month falls on a Saturday or Sunday the charge hits my account the next Monday morning. So then I get a notice that I need to pay my health insurance premium immediately or I will lose coverage. But by the time I get this notice - a week later - the money has already been deducted from my account. I call them and they say - don't worry about it is just how the system works.
You know what these fuckers need don't you? That's right a punch in the face.
I offer to allow them to deduct the money a few days before the due date - but they can't do that - so it is just a PITA.
Our health care system is totally fucked up. The insurance companies, the hospitals, the government, the drug companies and even many of the doctors - all fucked up all need a good punch in the face.
I'm likin' this "punch in the face" theme.
Yup. There's not anything wrong in this world that a few ass whippins won't solve
May I respectfully suggest you read the package insert before you receive your next flue shot as to its efficacy. The immunity is not as strong as receiving wild virus nor does it last long requiring yearly boosters. Also their are other components in this shot that should not be injected into any human. I have a severe adjuvant allergy after receiving 2 flu shots. Far worse than actually having flu. I have read some research that autoimmune conditions can result from what has happened to me especially if squalene is used.
Injecting proteins into muscle is not the way we naturally contract flu and it risks forming antibodies to the other components. I am still seeing cases of 2009H1N1 in our population though it has been included in the annual flu shot for years.
I take care of my health, eat nutritious food, exercise regularly in nature, do yoga, take no medication and don't get a yearly flu shot. Sure, it was bloody hell getting 2009 swine flu but the immunity will last far longer, even with some antigenic shift.
Unfortunately, healthcare today doesn't have your health in its focus. It wants you to take pills for problems that have alternative solutions, undergo billable procedures whether warranted or not, and do yearly screenings ( such as mammograms) that our questionable in value and in some cases may be harmful. Tread down this path with caution. And this is coming from someone working in the belly of the beast.
Miffed
Anyone that gets a flu shot has a death-wish. Read the package insert, not the patient info sheet. Also, the polio vaccine was contaminated with the sv-40 virus that causes cancer. They want to kill as many of us as possible.
http://www.theorganicprepper.ca/tragic-mistake-or-deliberate-plan-30-mil...
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/salud/esp_salud33u.htm
My wife had to go to the emergency room, fucking $300.00 for 2 aspirin.
I'm gonna set up an aspirin stand on their sidewalk and low ball em' at 200
And you'll get arrested, prosecuted for practicing medicine without a license, then sent back to jail for several years. "But the drug store sells asprin." you'll say. And the prosecutor will laugh in your face. But I symphatize, really I do.
Maybe the medical-insurance complex should start having some banker-style suicides?
If it is a tax as they have said and taxes can be tiered by amount earned then why would we think that they will not rule in favor?
The government needs your money to pay interest on the fake debt. Congress excluded themselves from the tax. The Supreme Court is a joke that has voted against the Constitution. As they say, "Hope in one hand and xxxx in the other, see which fills up first."
and if it is a "tax"...which the government did not want it to be labeled as or officially called (which is what Justice Roberts did to it), then we shouldn't even need the court to rule on this fucking thing anymore, right?
Congress has the power to tax (unfortunately), which means they also have the power to revoke a tax. All those scumbags need to do is bannish the individual mandate tax. It's the keystone to that entire fucking law, right?
Once the tax is bannished, the whole fucking thing collapses on itself.
However...at the same time I think we all agree this law was meant to fail big time eventually so that the Gov-scum could then step in and say, "Ah hah...you see? Private insurance is a failure. We need single payer Gov-scum insurance instead.".
So on the flip-side they may be setting this whole thing up to nationalize it.
Seems like we're damned if we kill this thing and damned if we don't kill it. We may also need a law that bans the government from nationalising health care no matter what.
FUBAR situation for sure.
Interesting, but no. They are moving system to private, fascist control. Where the government enforces the agenda of corporations. Corporations controlled by cl a shareholders and cherry picked boards. Fascist socialism sold as free capitalism. The lie is getting harder to sell regardless of how ignorant the universities try to make the new generations. These kids are waking up, and they are going to burn this mother down. Twenty years, tops....
Sometimes it seems like congress passed Obamacare without even reading it first.
Oh wait....
Sometimes it seems like Obamacare passed without even congress.
oh wait...
His name is ROMNEY. Yes it is a tax. And it is not health insurance. It is a health loan.
If you ever make shift to a higher tax bracket you have to pay some of it back. It's a hideous creation.
You got it all wrong, Obolo Care Is All Bush''s Fault!!!!!
Thank you for your reprimand. Nine of my fingers promise never to make another typo...
Great case to watch.....
The LAW is the law right? /s
Robert's shitting in his robe hoping he is not the tie breaker.
If he does it twice it won't be so nice!
If Roberts doesn't want his personal past life exposed by the "annointed one's" secret police he damned better know how to vote.
From what I understand it has something to do with his two adopted children being from Irerland or something to that extent. In short it was an illegal adoption and that is what they are holding over his head.
The law is whatever SCOTUS says it is, and the traitor Robers will make sure the subsidy is upheld.
SCOTUS is a rea life kaptain kangaroo court..... buncha overprivileged, overpaid, self righteous overblow windbags with no clue of their responsility to uphold and protect the constitution. How the FUK can tax paying US citizens be TAXED for a product they DON'T buy..... FUKU Kennedy you fossilized mush brained old fart...... time to lock nd load...
That's the simple truth. They ignore things that the constitition spells out in black and white, but stuff that "emanates from the penumbras" is effectively inviolable.
If it wasn't bad enough, Friday night is Wookie Night!
OT - I guess the Dark Web is not so Dark
http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/world/2014/11/07/police-knock-dark-web-ma...
If you're not using an entirely separate set of pipes from end to end, with operating systems that don't have backdoors, and hardware that doesn't have backdoors, you can't really say you're running on a separate network than the "normal web."
...or Tor is compromised. There has been reports of a of iffy nodes popping up, a few wouldn't be an issue but more than that and it is.
In any case between the less-than-certain security of Tor and the wealth of tools and/or outright lawbreaking of the Feds, I think it's safe to say that there's no reliable secure and anonymous pathways on the net right now.
On the bright side they seem to be lazy, so if you go dark on the net you probably greatly reduce the odds of being "discovered" as a profit source for the prison-industrial complex.
Tor has been comprimised for years. The communication channel leaks your real ip address in flash and other plugins.
The only way to save healthcare in the U.S. is to go to an all cash system. If you aint got it, you dont get it. You want insurance? Buy it on the open market (accross state lines) then.
Worst argument I ever heard on TV was Dean saying we shouldn't allow Health Insurance accross state lines because he didnt want some guy in Texas determining his policy. Well if you dont like that policy go somewhere else you schmuck! The interviewer never called him on it.
No politician has the balls or brains to try to do it though.
If Tor was really compromised, there are a lot of much bigger sites that would have been taken down.But compromised exit nodes, combined with SSL/TLS bugs that have been exposed recently, such as Heartbleed and GotoFail, could have allowed the feds to set up man-in-the-middle attacks.
^^This^^
Which is why- whenever I am online- I am always protected by my impenetrable bubble of internet porn. Constantly surrounded by an amorphous cocoon of thick, greasy POV action I can be probed by the most sophisticated systems and all they get is a fistful of cyber-spooge. Yeah, buddy...
Oh thats great I so sick of non-federal sponsored drug dealers making profits un-authorized by the powers that be. Thank God the Optium fields of Afganistan are still up and suppling the CIA with much needed funding. A victory for the war on "people" I mean drugs.
We all know how this will turn out, Roberts has shown his true colors.
You and I seriously have to work on not saying the same exact same thing (see below). Barring that, should we take turns? Or maybe alternate days when we post?
Plus I posted before you, but it still put your post above mine. Look at the date stamp. Weird. Like you've got a Zero Hedge Prime membership or something.
I think we've been absorbed back into the matrix.
One of you is a figment of the other's imagination.
We've both finally found somebody at exactly the same level of disfunction as ourselves.
I guaranfuckingtee that whatever meager measures make life more affordable for the common peasant will get shot down.
time to feed the MIC
Yeah, cause all 55 year old men really do need maternity care insurance, and I need to pay for Sandra Flukes contraceptives so she can act like a slut.
It's a zero sum game there charley, make something cheap for someone and you make something expensive for someone else.
It's actually worse than that. I was forced onto the plan, because the letter I received said the plan I had (Blue Cross/Blue Shield) wasn't approved and didn't meet Pres. Golfstix standards. My plan was about $300. a month, the Obama plan $1,200. So they subsidized my premium, and I pay about $22.00 a month. Problem is, why are they subsidizing a $1,200. plan when they could have subsidized a $300. plan that was just as good or better? Worse, why didn't they let me pay for my own insurance? Someone else is now forced to subsidize a plan I never wanted, didn't need, and the public is overcharged for this crap plan to the tune of $900. a month! WTF!? Where is that $900.00 a month going? And this is the CHEAPIE bronze plan! I've seen people saying they are paying THOUSANDS more a month than they were paying. And yet, there are STILL millions of people uninsured anyway! Total scam.
My plan was about $300. a month, the Obama plan $1,200. So they subsidized my premium, and I pay about $22.00 a month. Problem is, why are they subsidizing a $1,200. plan when they could have subsidized a $300.
The fed has spent trillions on toxic debt to benefit a select few, the defence budget (+domestic) is over a trillion and you're trying to be an altruist with your little subsidy?
Apparently you haven't yet figured out how shit works. Just be thankful you miraculously got a couple crumbs from the table.
Oh, I realize it all right. I resent that you or anyone else is forced to reach into your pocket for it. And of course you have to realize that they will RATION the healthcare, since they plan on KEEPING most of the premiums for reasons you stated. Sheeple, what you lost: that with private plan you had a CONTRACT that was ENFORCEABLE in a court of law. Now the insurers are EXEMPT from being sued for what they don't have to or refuse to cover (decree by a bureaucrat). Enjoy your pain pills, that's the new surgery.
I resent that you or anyone else is forced to reach into your pocket for it.
That's one way to look at it. I think the companies which own america have had a pretty good track record in the past 40 years of coming up with various exotic (and run of the mill) ways of impoverishing joe taxpayer, aca just another clever avenue.
During that time the national debt has been increasing at a pretty steady clip too - don't think todays taxpayer is paying on the principal.
"If you're not getting something for nothing, you're not getting your share."
10-1 your $300/mo gave you more coverage and less deductible/out of pocket pain.
You're right. It's a wealth redistribution scam.
Written of, by and for insurance companies. The $900 is going to insurance companies.
Plus additional payments in case they are STILL not profitable. Courtesy U.S. taxpayers.
They'll rule it Constitutional. No way Roberts is going back now. He creams himself just thinking about how much he loves that law.
He's got his adopted kids situation under control now
Sure, Roberts will, but the others are TBD. It just depends on how much dirt the NSA has one them.
The Ginsburg, Kagan and Sotomayor votes are not TBD, and Breyer is a solid bet for the administration. So really, this one will be decided by Kennedy.
Actually, I think either way ACA is toast. If SCOTUS upholds as a tax as before, Congress can use reconcilliation and 51 majority to defund. If SCOTUS votes against, well it's done.
Obamateur is not having a good week. His game plan was to ride out his term with Dems in charge of Senate and ACA would be dug in like a tick. Whoops.
Let's not forget, it's not until 2015 when ACA actually kicks in and people start feeling the pain ( scuttle butt is >40% of employers are going to dump insured onto the exchanges). This whole "ACA is such a victory" mantra is baffling.
There is a reason why Obama threatened insurers to withhold premium increasse notices until after the election. It's gonna get ugly.
I am unaware of any example of where a government program was repealed or shut down just because it was an absolute, abject, undeniable failure in the real world.
Touche my friend. But one can hope ... godammit Obama you ruined that too.
It'll shut itself down if it doesn't get shutdown. It's an untenable law that flat out won't work.
Isn't this about subsidies to state exchanges versus the federal exchange?
After the way the SCOTUS delivered the earlier ruling this one outta be a hoot.
pods
Yes. That's why it's such a giggler that anyone seriously thinks SCOTUS will do anything but rubber-stamp their glowing approval, completely ignoring the actual language of the bill. I mean, really, they did exactly that in the first challenge (tax vs. penalty), so why would they do something different now?
Maybe Boehner and McConnell can threaten to defund SCOTUS if they don't uphold the wording as is.
This is the justices way of asking for more money
Even many democratic leaning districts voted against it. In some precincts, as high as 60%. So what's a democratic representative to do? Why vote to pass the bill of course!
The "tax credits" go to the insurance company on behalf of the insured to the lower the cost.
If this is the case, the energy efficiency tax credits used to buy solar panels or new windows, etcetera are illegal as well. Looking at you SolarCity.
My prediction: the Supreme Court will say their employer is allowed to give away money to whomever it chooses so long as there's a huge bureaucracy in place to monitor it. And there's additional oversight. Meaning another government agency to administer it.
Name one SCOTUS justice who sis't in Obama's pocket and/or have kiddie porn blackmail photos hanging over their heads like the Sword of Damocles.
Um...... ok, you got me. I thought maybe Sotomayor, but.... nah, there's gotta be SOMETHING in that crazy Latina's past she wants to keep on the down-low.
That one is easy, she'd never have been offered the job if she didn't agree with the program.
We'll see, but the NSA probably still has the "dirt" on John Roberts to make his vote a slam dunk for President Goebbels.
www.traderzoo.mobi
I'm confident the Supine Court will rule on the side that benefits the insurance companies and corporate hospitals.
This slow annihilation of the average Joe by the GOP and Obama Dems(Repub-lite) is getting ridiculous....why don't they just roll out the tanks, machine gun us all down and just absorb our bank accounts.......let get it over with.
How exactly do you implicate the GOP in this particular caper?
I think the Supremes will keep the Obamacare fiasco going...for them its helping out the poor little guy and his 10 illegal children....it feels good to give away other peoples money....Socialism Kills....Countries
Ding Ding Ding
hurting the little guy too. Read where the poor can qualify for subsidy which pay for some/all of premium, but they have a plan with high deductible/co-pays ... can't afford that ... oops
This lawsuit alleges that subsidies helping individuals buy health insurance are only available in exchanges run by a state, not by the feds.
yep. A while back i read the text of that part of the legislation. Specifically mentioned "state" ... the writers assumed no state would forego setting up own exchange. The Administration has to tried to bulldoze over this point. Sad coming from a "constitutional lawyer" POTUSThey will just cut benefits and raise taxes for health insurance.
Was Obamacare expensive? YES, but no it will become unaffordable
GAO estimates in four years the average premium for a family of four will be about $20K a year. That's what I think I remember reading, correct me if someone has the exact numbers. Point is, more AFFORDABLE?
No worries.... the elected ruling politcal elite turds voedd passed to exempt themselves from obamascare... bastards every single one of them...
The subsidies are not designed to help the consumer, they are designed to prop up profits for the insurance and medical industries. That's why Roberts supports it. It's a massive jolt of corporate welfare.
American style sick-care has become so insanely high priced that only the wealthy can actually afford it. But even these subsidies are just a stop-gap. Deductibles and co-pays are so high that the average person with Obamacare insurace often still can't afford to go in for treatment.
<= Court will uphold slavery
<= To the moon, Alice!
if congress would ever produce a budget they could defund it but congress will never again produce a budget so tough shitski
Budgets will now be passed by Congress but vetoed by POTUS. Will Crybaby John have the courage to stand up to Obola? Will pigs fly? Will Ebola go airborne?
"seeking to strip health care from millions of Americans"
LIARS !
It IS NOT HEALTH CARE.
It IS A TAX IN THE DISGUISE of forced placed Health INSURANCE with a means-tested subsidization component AAAAAAND Profit Margin Guarantees for the Insurance Conglomerates that wrote the illegal faux legislation.
Mandated healthcare insurance is not in the Constitution and in fact the 10th says:
and to get around the Constitution's prohibition against non-apportioned direct taxes (A. I, S. 2, C. 3), the 16th. amendment was added, and it says:
So since mandated healthcare insurance is not "income" it cannot be a Constitutional tax and since it is not also a power delegated to the US government in the Constitution, it is Unconstitutional and null-and-void. An American, not US subject.Which of the three different versions of the 16th was that ?
The 16th ,in the current version was never ratified, but different states that did pass it, passed
custom versions.
Who counts the votes is whats important.
"The 16th ,in the current version was never ratified, but different states that did pass it, passed"
Doesn't matter, as if it was not properly ratified then NO non-apportioned direct tax is Constitutional.
So, from just a tax point of view, Obamacare is Unconstitutional any way one cuts it.
For argument's sake, say that Obamacare is Constitutional tax-wise. Mandated healthcare insurance is NOT a delegated power of the DC US, and therefore it is STILL Unconstitutional.
I will, and am, not going to comply--"Quit paying. Quit obeying. Quit playing."
An American, not US subject.
Remember, the Constitution is nothing more than a set of intentions on parchment. For those intentions to be realized, they must take root and be nourished within us, the American people. We must hold the Constitution's tenets sacrosanct and demand that they be adhered to. Then, and only then, can we begin to loose ourselves from the chains of fascism that have descended upon the American country.
Who controls the most (and biggest) guns is really what counts. H/T Mao.
We're a nation of selective law enforcement. To them it matters not where anything appears or not!
"We're a nation of selective law enforcement. To them it matters not where anything appears or not!"
Is your point that we should acquiesce and tolerate their treasonous "selective law enforcement"?
Isn't the real problem the American people's selective tolerance of their treason?
An American, not US subject.
Saying to one's self that "It's okay that they violate my rights and the law of the land," is honest. Saying, "That there is nothing I can do about it." is dishonest.
Oh here we go again with the court using their law verbiage to see if the algorithms running on servers 24/7 are working right. We could use a few Quants now at the Supreme court since we have tons of them with insurers and hospitals hiring more now too, so the Battle of the Quants has graduated over to healthcare now, just different models of quantitation but scarier as there's humans attached to them. As a matter of fact if you have not seen this, an NHS documentary about the takeover of the NHS by United Healthcare. I'm telling you go to their SEC page as this is one dangerous company that has expanded hiding in plain sight with truckloads of subsidies you wouldn't even think about. Read about Chatham House rules and see how scared they are and we have their stuff here too of course with HHS/CMS using United for so much of their models ever since Hillary opened the door and hired #2 Executive at United, Lois Quam. Go look her up.
http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2014/11/the-take-over-and-sell-off-of-nhsby.html
So here we go with subsidiaries with working with commercial insurers for the discounts...hmmmm..you know they can't shuffle us around like data on the markets but they are sure trying. Here's more about the obsession with Corporate Quants and what they do at insurers, they fire and yank your doctor away from you. When you think about "you can keep your doctor" it's the quants at insurers that are really doing this. Obama when spoke those words just got sucked in to some virtual values and it will kick him forever, insurers won that verbiage battle.
http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2014/10/data-scientistsquants-in-health.html
If your choice as an employee is a private exchange, you may want to read this as data selling is exploding there for profits, like AON managing. They got a new pot of Gold, with Walgreens, IBM, Deardan and a few others who have sent their employees over there to buy insurance. I put some links in there to some data brokers too if you want to see how to opt out on some of the web junk.
http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2014/11/insurance-carriers-and-brokers-are-big.html
Okie dokie...this will be fun to test the skills and knowledge of the courts when it comes to models and math on this one. Let's see if this is ethics or math this time.
I am participating in nothing. The Fed is an uptaking cancer, nothing more.
Social Security and Medicare liabilities are expanding at the rate of roughly $100 billion per year according to this :
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
this is mind boggling and unsustainable
It is health care prices themselves which are unsustainable.
"If it (the killing of Obamacare) succeeds, the likely result will be a “death spiral” where higher premiums cause healthy consumers to drop out of the insurance market, which will cause higher premiums, which will cause more consumers to drop their insurance."
Which is why the insurance industry will not allow the Republicans to repeal the ACA. It's not gonna happen.
delete dup
Anyone who thinks this would fix things is delusional. The health care system is teetering, costs have run up so far and so fast that they've priced themselves out of business...but for insurance, and now the subsidies, the whole system would have collapsed under its own weight years ago.
Of course, I think that would have been for the best. We'd have come through it, with a different system, and wouldn't be facing the awful situation we have today. But we didn't, and here we are.
So, now go throw another monkey-wrench into the gears. No subsidies means several things...the insurance companies will probably tank initially on the news. A whole SHITLOAD of people will be left hi and dry, which will lead to the next stock market slaughter...of hospitals. A lot of those newly-UNinsured folks will go to the ER again, and won't be paying the bills...BIG losses coming there, and shareholders will not be kind.
The ripple-effects will go through the markets like shit through a goose. Any politician seen as "the face" of this action will be crucified politically.
The time to "do something" about healthcare was years before Obama. The guy DID try, it was a pretty pathetic effort and doomed to failure, but the GOP just completely ignores these issues. So the GOP has much of the blame for the overreach of the Democrats. By refusing to do ANYTHING, they open the door for the Democrats to do stupid shit in an attempt to fix the problem.
We could have HAD some actual reform had BOTH sides worked at it together, instead of the GOP taking the "We're not gonna play!" attitude and refusing to participate.
Remember, in all the years the GOP has been complaining about Obamacare, none of them, not a ONE of them, has offered ANY kind of plan to replace it. Nothing! To this day they have NO PLAN...how many years did these people have to draw up SOMETHING, ANYTHING!? Even an outline, for God's sake! Are you fucking KIDDING ME? All the angst and efforts, all the House votes, and they don't even have an ALTERNATIVE to the thing they are fighting?
The problem was that we had one party with NO IDEAS refusing to consider anyone elses ideas, and another party so eager to do something to keep the system going that they JUMPED through the gap left by the GOP to implement their own really, really bad ideas the minute they got the chance.
Neither party has plans to FIX things. They want to WIN, or at least keep the other side from winning.
Exactly. Brilliant analysis. I was typing up something similar when I noticed your post.
The basic problem, stripped of politics, right and wrong, and who deserves what, is that Healthcare and Health insurance coverage are not the same thing, and that a critical mass of American citizens and employers don't have enough money to pay for it.
Slice it however you want, if you don't address that problem, the whole thing falls down. And nobody has any serious approaches to that problem. Outlawing malpractice suits ain't it; those costs are less than 1/2 of 1% of US healthcare spending. The suggestion of allowing interstate competition is a cynical joke; the insurance industry paid good money to get the McCarran-Ferguson Act passed a long time ago, and more money since to keep it in effect to protect them from having to abide by the Interstate Commerce Clause. So those are not serious proposals and only serve to distract from the actual problem, stated above.
The one that makes me throw stuff at the screen is "Patient-centered health care"...What the HELL is that? How does it work?
It's all just friggin' word salad.
Precisely... the entire debate has been framed as a health insurance issue. People need health care, not health insurance, yet you didn't hear that discussed in the runup to Obamacare.
The Dem plan is that people get fat and sick on corporate manufactured crap food. Then they get their life sustained by government paid sickcare.
The Repub plan is that people get fat and sick on corporate manufactured crap food and then they just drop out of sight and die.
Honestly, I find both worldviews fairly repugnant.
I'm a student and soo poor that I have two excellent healthcare providers.Don't ask me the reason it is that way. I figure the world wants to make sure Q99X2 is at least taken care of as well as Howard Hughes was.
It's not clear why. Howard Hughes did much more for civilization than you likely ever will.
ThinkProgress seriously needs a few lessons in that inconvenient document, the Constitution..
For instance, the Uniformity Clause, also known as Article 1, Section 8 of said document:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
That's where the discussion lies. Since whole states are excluded, the payments are most definitely not "uniform throughout the United States".
See ThinkProgress? Legalese isn't so difficult if you just take a few minutes to actually understand the law. Now if you want to change the Constitution, we can certainly have that discussion. But don't act like it just doesn't exist.
I'm not going along with any of it. Fuck that goddamn "health insurance" scam. Goddamn doctors will pump your ass full of poison if you have cancer, not even considering hemp oil, or massive intravenous vitamin doses. Take dope. Lots of dope. Stay drugged. Stay on the tit. Pfizer loves that shit.
Fuck the goddamn lot of them. My health is my own responsibility. I'll pay out of pocket is something snaps and hurts like hell. Other than that, I'll do everything to stay healthy by not eating the toxic food or drinking the toxic water. Big steps in the right direction keeps those ccksuckers out of my life. Fuck em.
What do you really think? Me, I'm eating some kale out of my front-yard garden. Nom-nom-nom.
Ick! I think I would rather eat cardboard.
You have a point... however what about when some asshole t-bones your car and leaves you in intensive care for a few weeks? Then you're broke.
Health related:
Kay Hagan's Newborn Screening Saves Lives S14 17
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/s1417#overview
Requires DNA Screening/Profiling of EVERY newborn with NO opt out feature. There you go...a DNA Profile of every American child. Check out the co-sponsors.
Passed the Senate...Sitting in the House
Hope (this) dies.
Gattaca Bitchez.
it's coming.
Or, the collapse of the funny green coupons, the war crimes trials, the hangings (glory be!) and decapitations then commence, along with clawbacks and asset forfeiture of the guilty families.
iHOPE that's the change that comes.
Couple of points.
You subsidize something (eg, student loans, health care), costs go up. You withdraw the subsidy, costs go down. The high cost of medicine is caused by gov't subsidizing it.
When Roberts ruled on the ACA, he was outfoxed politically by Obama, starting at The One's comments during the SOTU, and continuing with the massive MSM propaganda against ruling against the ACA. Roberts would have been pilloried if he voted against the ACA.
Now, however, the political atmosphere is almost 180.
My guess? Roberts was really pissed that he lost the political battle, and had to kowtow to the political pressure. He now has a 2nd chance at the apple. Paybacks are a mother-fucker.
More other Health News:
Kenya’s Catholic bishops are charging two United Nations organizations with sterilizing millions of girls and women under cover of an anti-tetanus inoculation program sponsored by the Kenyan government.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3224528/posts
Bill Gates style eugenics, its for the children!
Good catch, Billy Sol!
The Malthusians are running things.
NM, somebody already said this
I was just beginning to quit drinking to drown my sorrows.
Now I've started back for a better reason.
No worries the repubicans have a better plan. Don't get sick.
Please God, let them repeal Obamacare.
Anyone who believes the SCOTUS will damage Obamacare is a fool. If they have another tie - Chief Justice John Roberts, gutless political hack, will fold again and smooch Obama's south end.