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Catalanstrophe - 81% Of 2.25 Million Voters Choose Independence; Government Responds: "Useless Sham"
Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy has a problem. Despite his best legal and propoganda defenses (and harsh weather conditions) today's symbolioc vote for Catalonia independence proceeded... and the initial results (with 88% of the vote counted) are in:
- *TURNOUT IN CATALAN BALLOT WAS ABT 2.25 MLN, GOVT SAYS
- *81% BACK INDEPENDENCE IN CATALAN BALLOT
The Spanish government is saying the "data is not valid" and is investigating the illegal ballot calling it a "useless sham." Catalan President Mas says pro-independence parties will meet this week to put pressure on Madrid.
Catalan President Mas speaks...
- *MAS SAYS PARTICIPATION IN CATALAN VOTE WAS VERY HIGH
- *MAS SAYS CATALAN HAS SAID IT WANTS SELF-GOVERNANCE
- *MAS SAYS REACTIONS IN MADRID HAVE BEEN CONTROVERSIAL
- *MAS SAYS HE REGRETS RAJOY'S SHORT-SIGHTED REACTION TO VOTE
- *MAS SAYS CATALANS VOTED IN HARSH CONDITIONS
- *MAS SAYS CATALONIA HAS THE RIGHT TO DECIDE ITS POLITICAL FUTURE
- *MAS ASKS INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY TO PRESSURE SPAIN ON VOTE
- *MAS SAYS PRO-INDEPENDENCE PARTIES DUE TO MEET THIS WEEK
Rajoy responds...
- *SPANISH PROSECUTORS INVESTIGATING CATALAN POLL AFTER COMPLAINTS
- Prosecutors probing possible criminal wrongdoing in conduct of ballot, according to e-mailed statement.
- *RAJOY'S SPOKESMAN SAYS CATALAN TURNOUT DATA NOT VALID
- *RAJOY'S SPOKESMAN SAYS MAS'S ATTITUDE NOT HELPFUL FOR TALKS
As Xinhua reports,
Spanish Minister of Justice Rafael Catala said on Sunday that the ballot held in the northeastern region of Catalonia on its independence was a "useless sham."
The Spanish government said that the ballot was antidemocratic, useless and has no legal effects.
* * *
One more thing...
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blah, blah, blah.
2.5 million voted.
This will not be forgotten.
The way it is going, Catalonia is on the way to independence sooner or later.
Things may change, but this will not be forgotten as one major step away from Espana
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFUVUcPUesk
Catalans just want to be free
As many a Scot would agree
As Rajoy cries "sham"
He's in quite a jam
A break-up he'll soon oversee
No one will ever be allowed to vote for independence, it has to be taken with guns.
Indepdence for all people. And if voting actually changes anything, they'd made it illegal.
This has never worked in the past. If you wish to cite the USSA as an example to support your case, I will only ask, "are you shitting me?"
YOU WILL PAY 90% OF ALL TAXES FOR THE REST OF US AND LIKE IT !!!!!!!!!!!
Obviously it is time for Spain to initiate an "Anti-Terrorist Operation" against Catalonia.
Was Putin involved?
Maybe they have some weapons of mass destruction somewhere
Current Ebola strain linked to weapons lab in Barcelona.
Putin is involved in everything. ;)
At least Rajoy will respect the Catalan wish for independence. We don't have to worry about him turning it into a kind of Spanish Novorossiya...?
I'm sure it is just a coincidence but they have a large scale joint military and police drill to prepare for that exact thing next week
Kind of like
Ottawa
Sandy Hook
Boston
LAX
etc
Catalonians are 7,5 million people. 2.5 millions are 33%, whose 80% are close to 25% of total population. (1pro - 3anti)
Let's see how it develops. Most catalonian independence supporters are blind to the catalonian oligarchs use of the "independence idea". As it is proposed, it's basically BS (if one pays attention to political and economic measures they put on the table in a "free" Catalonia)
Lots of things to happen until next local elections, May 2015.
"Let's see how it develops."
Yes, let's do, there and elsewhere, including here:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/102021344
Oh, wait, oligarchs won't never take advantage of wishfull-thinking-independence-is-allways-cool for their own interests.
Catalonian and Scotish independence movements are socialits in essence. I don't think Texas independence movements are on that line, but you'll probably know better as american.
If you like your bravehart propaganda you can belive in your bravehart propaganda. It's all fine.
I couldn't care less how the "devolution revolution" begins — http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-transition-free-society — only that it takes hold here, after which the rest will be history or, better, the end thereof — http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-end-history
I don't know what your political beliefs are but rulers and oligarchs want ever larger aggregations to control.
Independence movements, if successful, would be an improvement but getting rid of government is the only solution.
Better to be ruled by the oligarchs in Madrid or Brussels?
Propaganda is much stronger than reality most of the times.
If economy worsens, then support will jump to 60, 70, 80%. They wouldn't want to share wealth with other poorer provinces
jarana - there are 5.4 million Spanish residents registered in Catalonia aged over 16. Not counting 900,000 foreign residents who may or may not be eligible to vote. There was no early voting, no overseas voting, nor even voting physically outside of Catalonia (since it was 'illegal') - Cataloinian voters such as students outside of Catalonia, military, business travelers, etc. couldn't possibly vote.
46% participation for 5.4 million voters is a fair trade-off considering all of the factors the above. That's 46% of the voters that went to the polls, and a significant majority of them voting for independence.
"...Most catalonian independence supporters are blind to the catalonian oligarchs use of the "independence idea"..."
True and it would be the same in the U.S. if any state voted for independence. Still, I think that having your oligarchs close to you and your woodchipper closer gives you a better chance at delousing a democracy.
+1.
"I think that having your oligarchs close to you and your woodchipper closer gives you a better chance at delousing a democracy".
That's true. Hope catalonians drive themselves with these kind of thoughts. I'm basque and I respect Catalonian independentists, but as allways, for sociapaths EVERYTHING is a mean for their goals.
Hope the best for Catalonia.
Interesting that you're Basque. We know what the Catalans think - I was just wondering what some of the other 43 million Spaniards were saying to each other tonight. It has to be a mix of envy and anger. Anger because why should Cataloinia escape and abandon the other 43 million people left in Spain to suffer under the current incompetent Spanish government?
I know nothing much is going to happen in the rest of Spain, but in my dreams, I fantisize that SOME Spaniard SOMEWHERE in the country goes, "Hey, why the hell should ANY of us suffer these psychopathic nincompoops another minute?" And then everyone else in the room starts saying "Yeah... you're RIGHT. What the hell were we thinking??"
jarana, are you using the new maths? The 5 million who didn't vote cannot be counted as 100% anti independence. Would be as logical as saying that all 5 million were 100% pro independence
It includes well over a million children, several hundred thousand foreigners, indeterminate numbers who didn't vote because of the non binding nature of the vote, indeterminate numbers who support independence but didn't feel the need to vote (as they knew the Yes vote was a foregone conclusion) plus many who didn't vote due to ill health/elderly, were travelling or were prevented from voting (I'm sure there were military personell of Catalonian background who were on duty and not given leave to vote).
my roomate's sister makes $80 hourly on the internet . She has been fired from work for 6 months but last month her paycheck was $14750 just working on the internet for a few hours. check it out... www.yelptrade.com
Sure - SHE makes a killing. What about that poor donkey?
yeah but you should see the green colored slime dripping from her naughty zone
Put some umbrellas in those drinks.
Party Time;)
Next up : Civil Unrest - Ukrain 2.0
Scotch 0 - Catalans 1
No Mas!
Slavery. What's old is new again in Spain.
What's a sham is how all western nations pretend to be republics or democracies when in truth they're oligarchies.
Oligarchic kleptocracies.
Alas and alak, my problem with that mask is I do not believe more than 2 people out of the 100+ I kinow would recognize or get this mask at all.
The 2 guys that DID get it would really like it though...
Rajoy is not as capable at mind-/media-control as David Cameron is (yet). Will see what happens during "real" referendum.
David Cameron. Rajoy will probably employ the same propagandists at the British Bullshit Corporation's editorial dept for the "real" referendum.
And the people of the US still vote for tyranny.
Last time I checked the only 2 choices on the ballot were Coke and Pepsi. Both are full of gas.
Only a Pepsi lover wouldn't see the difference.
I mean Coke lover.
Last time they voted for independence, 600,000 people were killed and their farms were burned to the ground.
Stupid proles, what's so hard to understand??
Good secession movements: Kosovo, South Sudan, Tibet
Bad secession movements: Crimea, Catalonia, Novorossia
How can a symbolic vote have illegal conduct?
Because Europe.
and otherwise unemployable Brussels Toadstools.
Because the Goyim know - shut it down!
We'll see what a sham it is when Rajoy has 2.5 million pitchforks shoved up his ass.
Borders are a creation of man and not visible to the birds flying above. Much bloodshed and many wars could be avoided if the issues of regime change or borders could be handled in a more rational and constructive way, but do not expect this to happen. Borders and political control is a problem that haunts man since before the written word.
Recently President Obama and other officials have talked about the legal sanctity of sovereign borders, but in reality this is an argument of convenience masking deeper issues. When it comes down to it we are just pawns in this sad power game. If you doubt this just ask some of the many people displaced from their homes in Syria. The article below delves into the issue of sovereign border and some of the reasons on why we can't just get along.
http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-issue-of-sovereign-borders.html
Borders are a creation of man and not visible to the birds flying above
hoorah, well said. The follow on from that is that peoples sense of identity is an option/choice, and much folly and unneccessary bloodshed comes from people unduly attaching their identity to these invisible dotted lines
Looks like a good old-fashioned civil war will solve the Spain unemployment problem.
Me thinks the 50 not so united states should declare independence from DC and then return it to the swampland it once was. There must be some endangered frog that would set
legal precendence to so so. If not, we can plant a couple...
We could let them keep Joisy.
I think they deserve Snooki.
A girlfriend once asked me to kiss her where it stinks ! So I drove her to joisey !!!
she must'a've'been a farter.....
roflmao......
LOL! Skooki is an adopted Peruvian from Staten Island.
"...81% Of 2.25 Million Voters Choose Independence"
Put that in your socialist paella and smoke it Señor Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy.
People voting for self-determination. Imagine that(!)
These prosecutors didn't jump in at the fraud in Scotland's referendum. Suppose when you get the ' right ' result NO (BAR )STEWARDS ENQUIRY IS NECESSARY.
I guess they should have hired Diebold.
I'm all for decentralization and anything that shoves a hot poker up the arse of the zio-globalist banking scum and all that defend them.
Listen Zero's.
What the fuck has happened to the "COMMUNITY"? So few Select Zero's exist anymore. Select Zero's are the non-house negro's. You know, the real people not compensated by the "OWNERS".
Anyway. Does anyone know if any Select Zero's died from Ebola? It's the only explanation. Where did they all go?
I don't know what you mean by 'Select Zero's". So, obviously I must not be one. But I am not being compensated by anybody, either.
Please explain.
Listen.
`Select Zero's` are the normal people who come here on their own accord. They are not compensated by the website owner, ABC Media LLC, to push a "CERTAIN" story line.
ABC Media employes in-house Negros who enforce the "IDEOLOGY" of their masters for a weekly paycheck.
ABC Media is a subsidiary of News Corporation/21st Century Fox. Murdock.
Thank you! That is enlightening.
Can you provide us with a link?
Nor are they hired by either Moscow or Kiev. We have seen a lot of those signing up on ZH lately.
Listen man.
1) it's the weekend
2) there are more than a dozen different 'ABC Media's around the world, I wouldn't be so quick to assume which one
(in fact, I think Tylers may have picked the name ABC media precisely because of the many ABC medias that already exist, better to confuse the dumbfucks)
i'm a "select zero" according to your definition, and you are totally confused.
the ABC media associated with ZH has nothing to do with News Corp.
Only in Spain is a 2 million referendum called anti-democratic....
Freedom is slavery.
Voting is only anti-democratic when the results don't turn out the way those in power want.
These results are more significant than a similar referendum, which was held earlier this year in the Venetia region of Italy. There, about 50% bothered to vote and just over half of that voted for independence. That movement quickly subsided after that.
Catalonia was not like Scotland either, where an overwhelming percentage of the eligible voters voted, and where just over half chose to stay with the UK.
But compare all of these with the referendums in Crimea, Donetsk, and Luhansk. In these oblasts, around 80% of eligible voters voted, and the margin of in favor of separation from Ukraine ranged between 75% and 95%. However, the question of whether to rejoin Russia was not posed in Donetsk and Luhansk where the margin in favor would not have been overwhelming.
The brioche in France ended guillotine, the IWW began with the death of Ferdinand, the Spanish Civil War ended in IIWW with troops highly trained Reich.
The IIIWW may have begun in Ukraine but the pump can be in Catalonia (staff forgot ETA - what they did in Spain was very similar to what the IRA did in Ireland in the decade of 1970-80).
This shit is not smelling good.
Who studied History and Geography senses that there is again a powder keg in Europe.
Famine, unemployment, excessive government dictating the rules, this is an explosive package.
hehe.
I pray that these sons of bitches when they begin to kill again, did not invent the swim across the Atlantic.
We are right here with our parrots.
hehe.
IBEX futures down a whole 12 points
http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2014/08/cowabunga-origin.html
The root of reconquistada
It is interesting that Cowabunga should resurface from the cultural collective-mind at a similar time as a steep escalation of the Christian-Muslim conflict . Whether it is a natural or engineered process , more of a similar nature can be expected ."Not bad , Pelagius .
Your paradigm of deconditioning learned-helplessness has not only changed the preceding millennia , but will change the succeeding ones as well .
It has changed human history .
Pelagius , I salute you ." You might also see another Spanish triumph : Almeria . See http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-quiet-revolution.html In Spain , things happen quietly before becoming boisterous .
I LOVE IT......
spain is a mere example of how large governments all over are failing....
in the past they could get away with it because... most people were not aware of the blatant failure that these sons of whores perpetrated upon their respective peoples....
i love catalonians as they are one of the most hard working, ingenious and productive people on earth... but the precious thing about this....
yeah right.... (they must have called prez OBOLA for advice as to what to say -LOL )
the fucking spanish governement (like O'SHITHEAD tried) cannot argue that there was no .... 'significant voter turn-out'... -lol talk about.... SHELAKING
i hope they succeed, and that this will be the start of the REJECTION by current governments ALL OVER....
anyway... too early to tell how much success will come from this... but those news made my day.......
"The natural tendency of every government is to grow steadily worse - that is, to grow more satisfactory to those who constitute it and less satisfactory to those who support it"~ h.l. mencken
Yes of course a sham.... But 125% registered voter turn out in many precincts for Obola is A OK ! and a legitimate election too.
125%?
LEGIT source please
.
The thing with independence referendums - unless you have a neighbor who might benefit financially from your serparation and has the incentive to facilitate transition you envision, you're shit out of luck. You'll be squashed by your own government - eradicated, forced to conform back to the old rule. Anyone who claims independence should ask whether there is a (nuclear) superpower interested in change you plan. If not, then going to some public square and setting yoruself on fire might be the only escape option.
You could make a killing selling guns to Catalans! Uh . . . wait a second.
Does this mean the Spanish government can now send in tropps and kill Catalans, with the Western World supporting the action as "antiterrosim operations"?
No, first there will be a no fly zone then followed by 'humanitary intervention'. After bombing the shit out of the place there will be 'nation building' aka conforming to the will of others.
Once they secede, we'll all secede, it'll be anarchy!
Escudellla for everyone!
Elections are antidemocratic, freedom is slavery, war is peace.
Saw a video of armor and apc's headed towards Catalonia.Not good.A little Guernica in the works?
The Spanish authorities by responding and by opening criminal investigations into 'wrong doing' actually gives ligitimacy to the vote.
The 2008 Kosovo declaration of independence opened up a Pandora's box of calls for independence. After the ICJ confirmed that a call for independence is not illegal (saying nothing about the independence itself however) now everybody can make a call for independence.
Catalonians; rout them with tear gas and burn their fucking offices down to the foundation.
Apparently the people of Catalan feel that the Spanish government is a "useless sham." I would have to agree with them.
These aren't pictures of the real guys, right? Because what's up with Snidely Whiplash and Deer-in-the-Headlights?
Next up VENETO!
I'm waiting to see if O'Barry puts sanctions on Catalonian institutions or individuals.
Next up:
A Dutch holiday charter on his way to southern Spain will be supposedly shot down by the Catalan terrorists.
No doubt using a missile supplied by the evil Mr Putin, which we will know because Obama will tell us it is so, and he would never lie, having a Nobel Peace prize that makes him the Mother Teresa of global politics.
IBEX bright green! 10y 2.14% LOL
Most zerohedger's here don't understand that yesterday's "referendum" was a joke. This is why the IBEX is green and the spanish risk premium is getting lower today. 1.8 million people voted pro-independence from a +6 million census. And this after more than 2 years of intense campaign from the local government, and 30 years of deep brainwashing from the nationalistic schools. These morons teach that America was discovered by a catalan and that catalan is still spoken there. Most of you don't have an idea about the deep manipulation of history and the Goebbelian propaganda these mindfucked people practice.
You mean like the deep manipulation of history taught in USSA schools? The victors write the history books just like following the Civil War...
Head up guru boy, your idiocy is showing.
i know one "useless sham" who ought to be wearing a necktie-and swinging slowly in the wind from a tree
How many people are in this global elitist power cabal that are repressing the rest of the population?
-- One million?
You are aiming high. More likely a quarter of that.