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Government Has "Trampled On Us Too Much"; Over 2 Million Catalans Vote In Symbolic Referendum For Independence
UPDATE:
- *TURNOUT IN CATALAN BALLOT 2 MILLION AS OF 6PM, GOVT SAYS
- *RAJOY'S SPOKESMAN SAYS MAS'S ATTITUDE NOT HELPFUL FOR TALKS
- *RAJOY'S SPOKESMAN SAYS CATALAN TURNOUT DATA NOT VALID
With well over 1 million Catalonians already voted by the middle of the day, Catalonia's 'illegal-in-the-eyes-of-the-Spanish-government' vote for secession appears to have garnered more relative public support than Americans who voted for real this week. As threats from Rajoy and the Spanish government grow louder, the Catalan president Artur Mas rather sarcastically noted "we're running a high-quality democracy here," adding that "it has been difficult to get to this point... which is incredible in a democracy." The government has decried the use of public buildings for the vote, but Mas exclaims, "if they want to know who’s responsible for opening up the schools, they should look at me. I’m responsible. My government and me." Results are not due until Monday morning but opinion polls show at least 80% support an official vote and 50% in favor of full independence for the region that represents over 20% of Spain's GDP. As yet no signs of any military presence, other than vehicles moved into the region last week.
Catalonia's government said more than a million voters participated Sunday in an informal vote on whether the wealthy northeastern region should secede from the rest of Spain.
The regional Catalan government pushed forward with the vote despite Spain's Constitutional Court ordering its suspension on Tuesday after it agreed to hear the Spanish government's challenge that the poll is unconstitutional.
The Catalan government said that over 1.1 million of the 5.4 million eligible voters had voted by 1300 local time at polling stations manned with more than 40,000 volunteers. Results are expected Monday morning.
"Despite the enormous impediments, we have been able to get out the ballot boxes and vote," regional president Artur Mas said after depositing his ballot at a school in Barcelona.
The ballot asks voters two questions: should Catalonia be a state, and if so, should it be independent.
Polls show that the majority of Catalonia's 7.5 million inhabitants want an official vote on independence, while around half support breaking centuries-old ties with Spain.
Catalan President Artur Mas spoke to reporters, as Bloomberg notes, after he cast his vote...
“If they want to know who’s responsible for opening up the schools, they should look at me. I’m responsible. My government and me”
“We are running a high-quality democracy”
“The next step will be to try to convince Madrid that we need a real referendum with all the political consequences. If they don’t listen, then we will go ahead”
“It has been very difficult to get to this point. That’s incredible in a democracy”
But as Reuters reports, this vote says a lot more about the roiling tensions in Europe than anything else...
A long-standing breakaway movement in Catalonia, which accounts for one-fifth of Spain's economic output and has its own distinct culture and language, grew in strength during the recent years of deep recession.
Opinion polls show that as many as 80 percent of Catalans back voting on the issue of Catalonia's status, with about 50 percent in favor of full independence.
...
"If they don't understand us, they should respect us and each of us go on their separate way," said Angels Costa, a 52-year-old shopkeeper who voted in Barcelona.
"We would have liked to have been a federal state but that is no longer possible. They've trampled on us too much."
"It's clear that this consultation ... does not give us the democratic mandate we would have in an election, but what's important is that it is a fresh demonstration of the fact people want to vote, that they are keen to voice their opinion."
* * *
Some images of the turnout for the 'mock' independence vote...
Photo of the Year 2014 - Catalonia's independence vote. pic.twitter.com/bzagXVQTLO
— Otto Ozols (@OttoOzols) November 9, 2014
Here's what needs to happen for Catalonia to legally split from Spain http://t.co/drEQtrjei7 pic.twitter.com/UsUrkudxXt
— GlobalPost (@GlobalPost) November 9, 2014
La culpa de q no haya nadie votando es de la previsión del tiempo de tomas molina! pic.twitter.com/OibhKVidAP
— Maxwell (@Agentsecret086) November 9, 2014
#CataloniaVotes #indyref RIA Novosti's correspondent reports from polls in #Catalonia pic.twitter.com/DVMJLtW6Az
— RIA Novosti (@ria_novosti) November 9, 2014
* * *
It would appear the Catalonians care more about a vote that, theoretically changes nothing, than Americans who turned out in un-droves to vote for real this week.
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"It would appear the Catalonians care more about a vote that, theoretically changes nothing, than Americans who turned out in un-droves to vote for real this week."
Do Americans vote for real? I thought it was for show.
It's OK for the Catalans to separate, but it's not OK for east Ukraine?
Indepdence for all people. And if voting actually changes anything, they'd made it illegal.
That's why the Catalan vote was declared illegal
Those Catatonics won't do anything if secession wins.
speaking of secession ... hey Texas , HELLLLLOOOOO ?!?!
Alaska first, then maybe Texas. I think it would have been easier for Texas 20-30 years ago before they hit critical mass of illegals in the southern parts (still hope Texas does it though).
What is saddest for me here in the US is that we have it set up right with states. Let the states determine what they want to do and how they want to govern/spend/tax/etc. The problem that so few will acknowledge is the overbearing federal structure and power grab above. Let Californina do what it wants, let Utah do what it wants, and let Alaska do what it wants, with minimal intrusion from others, and maintain the federal umbrella just for necessities and what is enumerated in our Constitution.
speaking of secession ... hey Texas, HELLLLLOOOOO ?!?!
We are working on it. Thugs in DC make it rough!
Yeah, good luck with that!
From the article:
"...If they don't understand us, they should respect us and each of us go on their separate way," said Angels Costa, a 52-year-old shopkeeper who voted in Barcelona..."
The U.S. federal government is like a psycho ex-girlfriend. It's never as simple as going your separate ways. Someone's family is going to end up hacked to pieces and buried in the basement.
Democracy only applies to the oligarchs, not the little people
I dont think a greater number of ill informed Americans voting would benefit anyone.
My preference would be a to the death street fight between those blindly backing their political gang. Blue versus Red just like the Bloods against the Crips.
Spainish politicians are furiously pouring over Abe Lincoln Bio's and books to learn how to put down succession and to spin it for the history books as a war against slavery. I can hear them now, "haha, hahaha, bwahahahahahahaha, bwaaaahahahahahahahahahahaha"
They should start with his Emancipation Proclamaition..."all slaves currently held in_____are hereby set free....except for in the areas my armies control."
Cuz it was all about slavery or sumpin, millions of brainwashed kids told me so...lol.
All they have to do is accuse the Catalonians of being racists and claim that Putin is behind the move for seccession. NATO will come in and put down the rebellion
Time to mobizlie the Spanish army and declare war on these terrorists!
The US can assist by sending the CIA Director, John Brennan, to Madrid, to help plan the "Anti-Terrorist Operation", just as we did in Ukraine. Likewise, the US can hire a few hundred Blackwater/Academi mercenaries to guide the Spanish Army in its attacks against the largest cities of Catalonia.
Should the Spanish Army balk at attacking the Catalans, we can help Spain organize its own National Guard forces, by recruiting from Spanish extremist groups who hate the Catalonians . . . just like the Ukrainians did with the Right Sector groups that made up the Azov batallion, you know, the one that flies the Waffen SS flags and is accused of mass murder and torture of Eastern Ukrainian citizens.
Hey, it worked in Ukraine, why not Spain?
Does Spain have an Army?
The dogs bark, the caravan moves on.
People everywhere just wanna be free
BULL! study after study shows that peopple will take security over freedom every time.
True, but mostly due to propaganda that defines security and freedom.
It could have something to do with the vote being declared illegal and the Spanish military columns moving into the cities
Anyone who remembers the Mercury dime probably remembers the Young Rascals song, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ntcMjYL7hc
In the land of the free, people are too busy shopping or watching football or porn to notice the government boot on their necks. Keep eating the GMO food, drinking the Fluoridated water (Lancet declared it a developmental neurotoxin this year like lead and mercury) and voting for your compromised politicians. And don't forget to look under your bed for ISIS terrorists before you sleep:
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
H. L. Mencken
LANCET NEUROLOGY RECLASSIFIES FLUORIDE AS DEVELOPMENTAL NEUROTOXINAn average IQ decrement of about seven points in children exposed to raised fluoride concentrations
http://fluoridealert.org/news/lancet-neurology-reclassifies-fluoride-as-...
Israel Has Officially Banned Fluoridation of Its Drinking Waterhttp://www.newsweek.com/israel-has-officially-banned-fluoridation-its-dr...
Thanks for The Lancet flouridation link.
What's wrong with watching porn? You can't spend your whole life on ZH. As for shopping and football, those suck
Catalonia isn't a disaster like most of Spain, so they'll have a tough time separating off cause Spain needs their cash....
Same situation in Belgium with Flanders wanting independence to rid itself of the parasitic Wallonia region
Sounds like the roots of our own War of Northern Agression in the 1860s.
Who/what is controlling this fascistoid transformation of Europe?
Bankers and the EU
1 million out of 7.5 million catalonians.
better than nothing i guess.
I thought it was suppose to be anarchy in the UK and "anarchy in Spain" or "anarchy in catalonia" doesn't have the same ring.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOe9PJrbo0s
i prefer the jim morrison version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFdmAgA_Gfo
modern version:
ARCH ENEMY - Yesterday Is Dead And Gonetoo bad it was only 1.1 million out of 5.4
Nevertheless, I find inofficial referenda a great new thing. Well done, Catalans
I was thinking the turnout was amazing, considering that so many people were willing to stand in line in the rain for a non-binding "pretend" election.
Now up to 2 mill out of 5.4mill + 900k foreigners.
Sorry, but to me that is piss poor. 31% could be bothered to vote - not quite the burning issue
IMHO
I would vote for Independence in North America. I include Candaian provices as well as US states.
I think I would rather be without a federal government. We already have three or four layers of government on top of us, it is about time we reduced it by a few layers. Besides I am tired of wars in far off places, NSA, CIA, DC, Ottawa and related spook agencies. They are all against my religion, and I do not belong to any relgion. They are against my beliefs.
Most people associate secession with southerners, but as a northeasterner, I would gladly vote us out of association with the south and particularly the midwest / west. I would cut it right above DC. DC can fuck off and be its own country.
OH HELL NO!!! If you want us to secede you have to take DC......
You can take DC and sell it on Craigs List. The Middle East may buy it as DC claims it has all their problems solved and can teach them democracy. Iran may buy DC thinking it will rid of a thorn in its side. Cuba and Russia may buy it just to get rid of those pesky sanctions.
The more I think of selling one or two layers of government, the more I like it. They get to keep their jobs, Air Force One, the Fed and the debt, which I had nothing to do with it.
To make the sale attractive, we can include the spook agencies.
Then maybe we can arrange to barter or trade goods or services between the little people without them having to go through hell because they have a little cash to buy something with.
If a state or province is unsafe or turns Nazi like, we will just close all the borders with them, they'll get the idea.
Maybe Switzerland or the Cayman islands can buy Wall Street, just to get rid of all the pesky rules and charges. Australia can take Wall Street, they are used to housing criminals from other countries.
Sorry but you will have to keep Wall St.
The favoured penal colony for the Brits was America before you became independent.
It was only when that avenue was closed did the Brits start shipping them off to Oz.
Show some respect and some schooling, please capitalize South. The other fucktards can defend themselves. Never fear, any respectable Southerner would run from the land of the bootlegger Kennedys and Barney Frank.
and as sson as they gain independence, the people will cry about how the Catalan gov't is trampling all over them. kinda like here on zerohedgw where all most posters do is bitch about the gov't no matter who is in charge.
Learning how to be free is a process much like learning to be a bitchy government worker troll. There are stages. and no I did not down vote you.
Most of us bitch about banks and corporations being in charge of .gov and being sold into the debt serfdom of neo-fuedalism.
Some of us bitch that we do not want ANY government of any flavor confiscating our shit at the point of a gun.
No revolution has ever been successful without outside support. Case in point, the American Revolution benefitted greatly from French support.
It might be time for the Catalans to go get some AK47's, some BT APC's and some T72 tanks, with some SU-27 Flankers for air support, and some S300 anti-missile systems.
Purely as a cash and goodwill transaction, of course.
You mess in our neighborhood, we mess in yours. What's a civil war or two between friends? As long as it's civil, it's ok.
Forward comrade !
Increasing nationalism and the breakup of unions to continue.
If it comes to fighting, Catalonians knows how
"At the front, George Orwell was shot through the throat by a sniper on 20 May 1937 and nearly killed. He wrote in Homage to Catalonia that people frequently told him a man who is hit through the neck and survives is the luckiest creature alive, but that he personally thought "it would be even luckier not to be hit at all."
Homage to Catalonia -Trampling on people is what governments do best.
"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose."
Catalonia paying more to Madrid than they are getting back ? Let's not mention the fact that Catalonia is sending goods and services to USA's non-federal non-reserve in exchange for the slave ticket the federal reserve note which is needed to buy petroleum products from OPEC. Let's not mention that form of slavery.
Are the old women making more lace ?
That is when you know it is serious .
See
http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2014/06/lace.html
Borders are a creation of man and not visible to the birds flying above. Much bloodshed and many wars could be avoided if the issues of regime change or borders could be handled in a more rational and constructive way, but do not expect this to happen. Borders and political control is a problem that haunts man since before the written word.
Recently President Obama and other officials have talked about the legal sanctity of sovereign borders, but in reality this is an argument of convenience masking deeper issues. When it comes down to it we are just pawns in this sad power game. If you doubt this just ask some of the many people displaced from their homes in Syria. The article below delves into the issue of sovereign border and some of the reasons on why we can't just get along. Expect more problems ahead.
http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-issue-of-sovereign-borders.html
Spain might be happy for Catalonia to secede if it agreed to take on 50% of Spain's debt.
No doubt if a real vote was allowed they would trot out the same fear mongering tactics that the Brits used in Scotland.
When slaves attempted to vote themselves emancipation, the 'constitutional court' ruled that such a referendum was illegal because it didn't give slave owners or the general publc who benefit from free labor a right to vote on something that 'affected' them.
I don't want to be a downer here, but...
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Why say, "I want to be a slave of this guy, not that guy"? Why not just say, "I refuse to be a slave, I refuse to be governed". Period.