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SNB Warning Gold Initiative "Fatal Error Of Judgment" Sparks EURCHF Peg Test
Having bounced modestly yesterday, EURCHF is testing new lows post its peg (at 1.2020 vs 1.20 peg) as the reality of the referendum on the "Save Our Swiss Gold" initiative starts to get priced in. The Swiss National Bank has decided to unleash some propaganda, as WSJ reports, Thomas Jordan, president of the Swiss National Bank, warned adoption of the so-called 'Save Our Swiss Gold' initiative would be a "fatal error of judgment." With the vote looming on Nov 30th, Jordan explains that maintaining stable prices would be harder to achieve if the call for gold repatriation and increased reserves is approved. The M.A.D. rhetoric has begun as not just stability but jobs are at stake, according to Jordan.
EURCHF continues to drop (Swiss Franc strengthening) towards a test of the 1.20 peg...
And The Swiss National Bank is stepping up the M.A.D. rhetoric... (via WSJ),
The head of Switzerland’s central bank has warned that maintaining stable prices would be harder to achieve if the Alpine country votes to require the bank to keep a minimum amount of gold in its vaults.
The adoption of the so-called “Save Our Swiss Gold” initiative would be a “fatal error of judgment,” Thomas Jordan, president of the Swiss National Bank , told Swiss newspaper 20 Minuten in an interview published Wednesday.
...
Mr. Jordan said the proposals would damage the SNB’s ability to deal with inflation, while jobs could be endangered.
“Too little gold in the economic crisis was never the problem, the strong franc was the problem,” Mr. Jordan said in the interview. “We had a massive overvaluation which has led to major problems.
“We must be able to dampen this problem, but our ability to do this would be severely restricted,” he said. The initiative would force the SNB to buy gold every time it buys euros, which it has done to curb the rise of the Swiss franc.
* * *
So fire and brimstone if the SNB can't just print Francs willy-nilly...
As Grant Williams perviously concluded,
Sometimes I think these people are completely delusional.
So, let me get this straight: gold is a relic which restricts your ability to do such vital things as... oh, I dunno, promise to print unlimited amounts of your currency in order to peg it to another, failing currency and thereby debase it by 9% in 15 minutes? Or it might mean the market doesn’t have complete faith that you might be completely relied upon to do really smart things like that?
Disaster!
Somebody. Please? Make it stop.
The Swiss establishment has been reliant upon the public’s ignorance in these matters, but now they are up against a formidable opponent in Egon von Greyerz. Not only that, but they can clearly see that, as elsewhere around the world, the public is fast becoming disenchanted with the status quo; and that is potentially very dangerous for these people.
What is important to understand here is that if the initiative passes it will be part of the Swiss constitution IMMEDIATELY — not in two years, as many blogs and websites are suggesting. This means that the government and parliament cannot touch it. Only another referendum can change it. This is proper democracy for you.
The closer we get to the vote on November 30, the bigger this story is going to become, and the bigger it becomes, the higher the chance that the yes vote wins.
Should that happen, it will undoubtedly set off alarm bells throughout the gold market, as yet more physical gold will need to be repatriated and another sizeable, price-insensitive buyer will enter the marketplace.
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Trust us, we are scared!
And now the propaganda begins.......lets see if the Swiss are sheep......I say yes they are
To hell you filthy banker, TO HELL! I so hope that shit passes.
Big ups for Egon von Greyerz, his name alone is big pimpin. I hope that son of a bitch succeeds in shining a light on those Swiss banker roaches.
it won't pass.
http://dont-tread-on.me/?p=32981
No sound money for you Swissies, get back to your Facebook accounts.
"Fatal Error Of Judgment"
OF COURSE IT IS ...
The Whole Fucking Keynesian Paper Fiats & Paper GOLD Rigging Complex May Collapse Into A Pile Of Shit Rubble???
It is a threat. The Central Planners don't need this shit to catch on around the world. If the Swiss pass this the Banksters will make them pay dearly.
Thomas Jordan: chairman of the Central Bank Counterfeit Deterrence Group!!!!!!!
I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP!!!!!!!
Jordan's policy of fixing the CHF at 1.2 to the EURO will be the most disasterous policy step in SNB's history. Nothing speaks against gold as a reserve instrument. But fools follow other fools.
He was vice-chairman at the time but probably in favour of it although he's more prudent than the other two chairmans. The biggest blame is on Hildebrand. The most funny part of all of that were unions discovering the business of central banks after the introduction of the floor and shouting for a peg of... 1.40.
Egon like all the other King World fucktards is getting it up the blurter being so long gold.
Trying to bail himself out with a totally bullshit vote.
.
It won't be ALLOWED to pass.
You think not? The Swiss take their referendum process pretty seriously.
another victory for the banksters. so for anyone keeping score
Banksters 1000
Citizens 0
to rephrase from a great comedy... Groundhog Day. "today is the same day yesterday and the same day as tomorrow....what if tomorrow never comes" or something like that. The bankers will never lose...I'm convinced
another victory for the banksters. so for anyone keeping score
Banksters 1000
Citizens 0
to rephrase from a great comedy... Groundhog Day. "today is the same day yesterday and the same day as tomorrow....what if tomorrow never comes" or something like that. The bankers will never lose...I'm convinced
My fellow Barbarians.......just say no!
If the Huns know we have gold....they're sure to attack us.
I've spent a reasonable amount of time there, and in my view the Swiss are definitely not sheep in the sense that our bubble-gum TV watching populace are.
On the other hand, the strong military influence produced by mandatory national service may make them more likely to 'Just follow orders' from above. Hard to know whether this will trump their natural conservatism and independent streak though.
The gold intitiative, Obmacare for the Swiss.
as I wrote before, the referendum goes too far. to the point that you have to be a very simple-minded goldbug to love it, of the kind of "whatever, as long as gold is involved"
meanwhile, the Swiss have a varied political landscape, and political parties are very important. all except one are against it, nearly the whole political "elite" has spoken against it, and nearly all newspapers too
"Swiss are sheep"? I beg to differ, they are exceptionally well versed in things financial. "buying, buying and never selling" strikes them as a very odd way to use gold. as I wrote before, if "never selling" would be a good practice... well, then we would not be talking of the Nixon Shock of August 15th, 1971, then this is what he did: he forbade the FED/Treasury to sell gold against USDs
and the Swiss economy - including and particularly the incredibly important SME sub-strate - is heavily integrated with the eurozone's economy. Just recently the Swiss gov explained patiently to France and Germany that Swiss trade with them is bigger then China's. which explains the CHF "floor" (aka peg) to the EUR
and this is real economy and trade, folks. chemicals, machines, machine parts, turbines, watches, chocolate, etc. etc.
Name calling (simple-minded, goldbug) as your first "argument." No point in reading on...
then exchange "simple minded" with "not Swiss and not caring what would happen to Switzerland, as long as it's gold and it goes higher"
if "simple minded" was an argument I would use it often. here it was not meant as argument but as "wait a moment, what are the consequences?", followed by real arguments, imho. I firmly believe I have a track record of not using dirty tricks in my argumentation here on ZH, including swearing, even though it's labelled a "fight club". So suit yourself
This is how I interpret your argument Ghordius:
- 'These are issues far too complex for the average person to wholly grasp, therefore, best that these issues are left to the much higher qualified authorities to sort out.'
My response:
- The monetary 'authorities' of the world have acted in such an undisciplined and egregious manner with the citizen's finances, that short of a bold and rather 'blunt' implementation of discipline, it is highly unlikely that the declining fiscal 'morals' of the West will ever be brought to heel, let alone righted on the tracks.
Consuelo, the average person is not interested in anything that has to do with monetary matters. That's the very basis of fiat currencies, and why some central banks can do what they do
Can you expand your acronym SME? I have only seen it used as Subject Matter Expert (Usually pronounced Smea, but jokingly called a Smeagal in some circles). I get your meaning, but it bugs me I can't parse it out.
Thanks,
Cooter
gladly. Small and Medium Enterprises. half of the eurozone's economy? it's them. can't compare with most countries. the German speaking countries sometimes use the term "Mittelstand" for Medium. it's that part of the economy for which lobbying is a bit more difficult, and has to be structured around principles and not ad-hoc laws, and is often really private, using business loans from retail banks instead of exchange-traded stocks and bonds. in Switzerland, they are as important as in the eurozone
in contrast with "megabusiness", which easily becomes global in scope, and sets up gargantuan multinational constructs, with an epitome in the megabank
Switzerland is known for it's dairy cattle not so much for sheep. I'll be interested to see how they respond to propaganda
We eat sheep and pigs. Do you have any idea how expensive it is to raise and graze cows on outrageously expensive Swiss real estate? CHF 75/kg for basic steak cuts at my grocery store... and this is with a "weak" CHF.
UR, are you applying for Swiss citizenship? have you had a look at the more debated other two federal initiatives, in particular the "ecopop"? two Swiss contacts I have told me they already voted "Yes" with a very typical Swiss explanation: "I know it will not pass, and it's good so, but I wanted to give a shot across the bow"
True, our government has shown so little commitment on the immigration issue (both pre and past the february vote) than a share of the folks are logically ticking the yes out of emotion, or to send a message.
Would our government get off its ivory tower and address in a compelling way the loose family reunification possibilities, EU migrants' access to social prestations and automatic renewal of permits as well as the surge of asylum seekers this would be no issue. Unfortunately they show no commitment in that regard.
but you Swiss had a referendum that puts all your dealings with the EU in jeopardy by making the old "contingents" coming back. you practically already toppled that "ivory tower", which is now in full "damage control" mode. What do you want more?
it pains me to write this, but as long as the UK is in the EU club, the EU has to keep strict adherence to the very simple Four Freedoms. Britain's governments otherwise always try to weasel some special bargain. It's in their blood, to first commit and then renegotiate better terms until Britain has "both the croisson and the five pence" (it's a Swiss saying, isn't it?)
I agree with the zero leeway we have with the EU in regard of the UK situation.
It's not that simple regarding the vote, in practice even though the inititative went through, we have no idea as to what will come out of it. There is no consensus on the method (e.g. contingencies, corporate tax on foreign hires, ..) and as you poitned out most of them contradict with our EU contract. Thus the odds that the elites pull off some sort of smoke and mirrors output instead of a clear control on immigration is fairly high, hence the temptation to go radical on the 30th of this month.
I think I can empathize on that. btw, radical? That's your confederation's middle name. you Swiss are the only polity that is truly in constant revolution, with your referenda. the only polity that "rides the beast" in the proper manner. many of us europeans secretly and less secretly admire you and hold you as a... template
but I think your government is doing a good job of procrastinating the matter in Brussels. some things have to. having said all that: do you really suffer by EU immigration? or is it more a mixture of that and the asylum policy?
Regarding whether or not it's the right play for our government to play the clock, I'd say we actually have a very bad timeline no matter what precisely because of the UK situation. We have 3 years to renegociate immigration with the EU. In the most likely scenario of UK conservatives winning the 2015 election, they will hold the EU referendum in 2017 which matches our deadline. In other words the EU would grant us nothing, or a symbolic token that our government would try to sell us as a breakthrough. Whether this works or not is tough to assess; immigration will only be part of a new treaty we currently negociate with the EU, whose goal is to institutionalise our bilateral agreements with the EU. Needless to say it is very controversial topic for several reasons we will probably have the chance to discuss here timely.
I can only speak about myself and sort of conjecture that my view is shared by a broader share of the citizen. First off, there is a substantial share of citizen for which immigration is no issue. But it remains the main concern of the population when polled. The concern is immigration in general, not limited to the EU. Asylum is on top of the list. There is no difference between EU and non-EU immigration in my opinion. Simply the latter is 80% of our immigration, hence the higher voices. Our government in a very technocratic manner perpetrates this feeling by refusing to take the issue at hand. There is a strong conservative feeling of wanting to preserve our culture, which, in face of the demographics we've had over a decade or two is bound to at least be mitigated. The clear cut correlation, and I would argue causation, betwwen immigration of certain countries (mostly out of the EU ones) and crime. Economically, the fact of being fed up with the easy access for EU's low-skilled workers, whose mentalities with regard to the state differs with ours (prone to suck out state benefits without caring whatsoever). All of there are exacerbating by the government policies. If they had put in place those measure I wrote 2 messages ago (toughen up family reunification for low-skilled immigrants and asylum seekers, non-automatic renewal of permits, etc) I am sure most of us would be satisfied. Yet they do not usr the room of maneuver they have within their international obligations, instead, they extend the right of appealing for asylum seekers, and state our "asylum tradition" in an ongoing manner. This is very frustrating.
In a nutshell, even though most of us is pro-economy, there is a tradeoff with culture, and currently not only is our government getting a bit more intrusive economically-speaking, but the perception is that they're not protecting our culture enough, hence the backlash. Worth stating that this is our most centrist government ever with one FDP trending center and only one SVP. No wonder the population went as much against that government's recommendations than any other one in popular vote. Clear disconnect. Clearly, when you stroll in cities' streets you see demographic swings you may not be used to as a native, that in a matter a decade time. It is tough not to get emotional over it.
I actually just put in an early renewal for my residency permit because I will be on the road for a couple months when the current one expires.
I think Martin Armstrong came close to the truth when he characterized the gold initiative as a protest against government, and more specifically, "It will have no impact upon saving the franc and it certainly would not change the direction of the currency without removing the peg"
The SNB is being somewhat disingenuous when they say the initiative will "tie its hands", but the gold initiative supporters are either outright lying or simply stupid to argue that the initiative will strengthen the franc or bring stability to monetary policy.
What the initiative will actually do is increase CHF volatility and force the SNB's hand to do things that most paper pimping central banksters can only dream about, none of which involve purchasing over 1000 tons of physical gold and storing it in Switzerland.
It's too bad more people don't understand how central banks actually work to manage/manipulate their balance sheets, or they might see the (un?)intended consequences of this poorly though out attempt at reform.
As to Ecopop, since I'm already here- it doesn't affect me either way, and I'm generally for stricter immigration controls anyway... since Switzerland is not part of the EU, despite what certain people in Brussels may believe.
fully agree. if the Swiss Gold Initiative was divided in it's three parts, I'd advocate two yes (repatriation because Switzerland can easily become a major gold trading center and quota of assets for what you describe) and one no (regarding ban on sales). But this way? overengineered
You make interesting points.
But it sounds like you don't think this would be the begining of the unravelling ... which seems to be inevitable at some point. First to panic and all that?
Disagree?
Regards,
Cooter
it depends. in which direction your "unraveling" goes. different scenarios give different outcomes
example: the US could go back to a gold-backed USD. it's only a question of the price for the fix. 50'000 USD per ounce would be... confortable. for the FED. and probably cause massive deflation in the US, which again brings you to... scenarios
Switzerland is a tiny country (1000 tons of gold notwithstanding), so unless by some strange fluke the initiative violently disrupts markets in New York or London, I don't think the referendum would actually cause the great unraveling to commence. It's not in the SNB's interests to collapse the house of cards or do anything which could lead to their being blamed for bringing it down. The SNB also has a lot of tools at their disposal to manipulate the "will of the people" for change into perpetuation of the status quo (at the expense of the "the people").
The initiative actually reads:
I: Die Bundesverfassung wird wie folgt geändert:
Art. 99a (neu) - Goldreserven der Schweizerischen Nationalbank
1 Die Goldreserven der Schweizerischen Nationalbank sind unverkäuflich.
2 Die Goldreserven der Schweizerischen Nationalbank sind in der Schweiz zu lagern.
3 Die Schweizerische Nationalbank hat ihre Aktiven zu einem wesentlichen Teil in Gold zu halten. Der Goldanteil darf zwanzig Prozent nicht unterschreiten.
II. Die Übergangsbestimmungen der Bundesverfassung werden wie folgt geändert:
Art. 197 Ziff. 94 (neu) - 9. Übergangsbestimmung zu Art. 99a (Goldreserven der Schweizerischen National-bank)
1 Für die Erfüllung von Absatz 2 gilt eine Übergangszeit von zwei Jahren nach Annahme von Artikel 99a durch Volk und Stände.
2 Für die Erfüllung von Absatz 3 gilt eine Übergangszeit von fünf Jahren nach Annahme von Artikel 99a durch Volk und Stände.
What the referendum does not say, do or prohibit:
1) The initiative doesn't actually define "gold" so the SNB is free to buy GLD or CRIMEX futures (The latter is intellectually interesting because if they mark them to notional value and let them expire worthless it gets around the sale prohibition, or if they desire to hedge increased "gold" holdings the could simply buy gold large quantities of puts, which would further suppress the paper price of gold)
2) The initiative doesn't prohibit gold leasing, so if the SNB needs to bring back about 300 tons, leasing 300 tons of the roughly 700 tons already in Switzerland would facilitate obtaining 300 tons from London, Toronto (or NY). (The initiative also doesn't prohibit gold sales during the next two years, and gives the SNB 5 years to get all its future "gold" holdings relocated back to Switzerland.)
3) The initiative does not change the central bank's single mandate under article 5 of the National Bank Act - which is price stability (and hence currency stability vis-a-vis the largest trading partner - the EU), allowing rapid appreciation of the CHF after passage of the referendum would actually explicitly violate Federal Law. So if the referendum passes the SNB will be forced to intervene even more actively in the markets to devalue CHF, so in addition to the two typical bullion bankster shenanigans identified above there is also the possibility of:
a) outright monetization - they print CHF and don't even demand EUR or USD reserves in return
b) reduce the reserve requirements/increase bank leverage
c) setup a special purpose vehicle/sovereign wealth fund and move existing SNB assets off balance sheet until existing gold reserves are 20%.
At the end of the day I think the SNB would view passage of the referendum as a legalese or accounting gimmick challenge to overcome instead of a mandate to do anything real in regards to SNB physical gold holdings. As long as they can convince their bankster buddies that the SNB has everything under control -- I don't see anything more than a one-off headline pop, which would probably run head first into a Kevin Henry CTRL-P dump on the bid stack.
However, the SNB (and Swiss in general) don't necessarily do very well forced to communicate. Perhaps they could hire the stuttering Bernank, since he is still apparently preaching the status quo, unlike Greenspam.
Great analysis.
"At the end of the day I think the SNB would view passage of the referendum as a legalese or accounting gimmick challenge to overcome instead of a mandate to do anything real in regards to SNB physical gold holdings. As long as they can convince their bankster buddies that the SNB has everything under control -- I don't see anything more than a one-off headline pop, which would probably run head first into a Kevin Henry CTRL-P dump on the bid stack."
I am afraid you're right. Every word fucking counts in that important an initative. In fact even well-defined initiatives such as expelling foreign criminals are overstretched such that half the substance is removed.
If, however, the SNB behaved in a way that was not aligned to that of the substance of the initiative, that would ring the demise of the relative political independance it enjoys. Expect the SVP to make big waves.
I live in Alaska and stay fairly busy with work/life, so I came back to this thread long after it was likely dead.
I did want to say thanks to you (UrbanRedneck) and Ghordius for sharing insights on this topic. Very interesting.
ZH used to have a great deal of folks like you, but that has waned in recent years. The stupid sound bit/political pissing contests get old; this thread was refreshing.
Regards,
Cooter
I second that. Actually learned a few things. Vielen Dank (or "merci villmool"?) to UR and Ghordius.
bitte schön
.
We will see!
If the Swiss can't pass something like this, and such a basic principle of
Sound banking and accounting, in line with their traditions, well then I will start calling them Europeans.
Good luck, its just another little piece of your soveriegnty Switzerland..
Not sheep, swiss are very independent and single minded..
The vote will be rigged or it passes.
Wrong again vader.
? how do you rig a paper ballot done in the classical way? it's not rocket science, it's tried and tested methods
I think a few Latin American countries can help out with this. Who counts the votes? Ballot boxes disappear and others magically appear. Plenty of ways to get this done.
I've witnessed as foreigner Swiss referendum voting. no way, there. everybody even remotely interested is there. yes, plenty of ways... if not done properly
True that... There were a few "uncomfortable votes" that were recently passed, which would not have made it thru otherwise.
All they have to do is channel Willian Tell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EewAFBFAqno
Fiat banker job's in danger???
FUCK 'EM...
"EXECUTE 'EM" - fixed. What part of all fiat will go to zero, don't these people understand?
They should be worried about their lives, not their jobs....
DON'T DO IT SWISS PEOPLE!!!
YOU'RE CURRENCY WOULD BE WORTH SO MUCH MORE THAT YOU WOULD BECOME TWICE AS RICH OVERNIGHT!!!
...
the stress of spending twice as much... the horror...
spending twice as much sounds good. the problem is that they would sell only half as usual, which tends to make things a bit less... sustainable
think it through for a moment: I buy from Switzerland. the pricelists they send me are in... EUR. and will keep being in EUR
if my suppliers in Switzerland have to pay their workers and management in a rapidly appreciating CHF... eventually they either go out of business or they have to cut the salaries
"money for nothing..." is a refrain from a song. I don't think the Swiss are keen to see Greek conditions in their country. no person on the street loves this devaluation feast that we call "Currency War", but the Swiss do care about their economy - they have one. hence the CHF hiding under the EUR's gown
A country cannot be a net-exporter indefinitely.
In case of a yes vote Switzerland would probably enter a deflation period. Deflation is considered devils work by today's central bankers. The history of the US after 1876 is the prove of the opposite (railroad revolution); today internet is providing the same productivity boost as railway did at in the 1870ies in the US. Falling costs led to falling prices. Good for the common citizen!
Deflation is definitively bad for high debt runners. Savers and people with solid jobs on the otherhand would greatly benefit. But as debt and QE is dominating todays world "good deflation" is not really an option.
Don't expect Yellen, Draghi or Kuroda thinking about such an option. Switzerland could (but will not dare to) show the way.
Deflation is only bad if you have any assets (cash, bonds, stocks, PMs) in a bank... Bank goes belly up and your "wealth" is gone for good (most likely; see MF Global, Cyprus).
Right, overleveraged banks went belly up in 1873. Afterwards it was clear sailing. Good salaries for good jobs and millions for Vanderbildt...
"Fatal error of judgement" = "collapses the ponzi"
How de we help the Swiss take back control of thier currency.
Fatal error of judgement for who? The currency and interest rate manipulators or the people who will benefit from a gold standard?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ddyThSL2fg
An avalanche of bullshit!
Someone must have blackmailed all these SNB bankwanks. That's the only logical explanation.
Thank god this will never happen in the EU or US...
TO THE CLIFF!! FOLLOW THE LEMMING LEADER! HE KNOWS BEST!!!
I don't see any farking stable prices with pure fiat. Its been nothing but periodic chaos without a gold standard. Lets remind people that post WWI & II we had a gold exchange standard. That is not the gold standard! When you mix fiat with gold as reserves, it farks things up.
Look at the Fed, stable prices in its BS mandate. What a load of horse shit!
Why is the SNB so bent out of shape about gold if it’s so worthless as The Bernank implies?
Article 5 of the National Bank Act, which is not changed by the referendum and already is the law in Switzerland.
.
We're scared 4 reelz up in here!
Uh huh.
SNB's Jordan = Baghdad Bob of Gold.
This is just bullshit. When has a banker or anyone highlighted or showed his weakness?!
Gold will be smacked down hard after the referendum is a disappointment.
The Swiss do not have to buy gold on the open market. They can simply withdraw gold from the Global Debt Facility to mint gold coins.
See details below:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/khude...
https://s3.amazonaws.com/khude...
https://twitter.com/KarenHudes
Winston: Tell him about the Twinkie
Venkman: What about the Twinkie?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzaQjS1JstY
Call in the Swiss airforce....but please, allow them to finish their lunch....
If Invading Switzerland, Please Do So Outside Of "Office Hours"
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-17/if-launching-air-attack-switzer...
"they" always use "inflation fighting" or "strong currency fighting" as an excuse to steal MOAR bitchez.
Run Forrest, Run
How can they expect to run a financial system not based on FRAUD.
There's a reason the SNB is freaking out, no ?
So let me get this straight...
They Swiss people want gold to actually be in their banks?
And the vote will make it part of the Constitution? And immediately?
So the government would have to do it?
And the people keep guns in their homes?
And they make really cool watches and army bikes?
And they don't meddle in the affairs of other countries around the world but instead remain nuetral?
I think I am going to start packing my bags right away. I love that place!
Good Luck getting in.
Unlike the U.S., their borders are secure. Good luck with that.
It already is part of the Constitution.
The referendum is an amendment to the existing 99th article, which states in clause 3 The Swiss National Bank shall create sufficient currency reserves from its revenues; part of these reserves shall be held in gold.
Expect to pay $30 for your lunch at McDonalds.
That's ok, I don't eat McDonalda anyway.... lol... but point taken :)
And they don't meddle in the affairs of other countries around the world but instead remain nuetral?
They are just happy to keep the loot for safekeeping on behalf of the meddlers.
Someone asked a small Swiss private banker how does he manage to survive/profit?
He replied, well we provide banking to the foreign despots, in secretive numbered accounts, and then one day he gets assasnated, and burts into a chuckle.
Can anyone suggest good place to buy gold coins..??
From what I've read, the South African Krugerrand seems like the best way to go. Just looking for a reputable dealer with a reasonable mark-up.
Sold a condo and looking to finally dip into the gold market (along with buying puts on the XLF)....
Any help or insight appreciated....!!
Damn......a gold virgin......it's the prophecy.
I thought we had more time.
Since you asked......Kruggers are fine.
Thanks...
I'm finally putting my money where my mouth is. If history can teach anything, this is likely the great contra-indicator that it's going much lower in the future.
start here to get an idea of price/premiums
https://comparegoldprices.com/
Get you some Bitcoins, too.
Damage their ability to deal with inflation?
You mean their ability to deal out inflation?
Damage their ability to deal with inflation? You mean their ability to deal out inflation?
+100
+1000 fiat is fiat is fiat is fiat...
Exactly...gold does not 'inflate' like fiat. So, those who NEED inflation for the 'skim' do NOT want gold.
Gold actually gets you to a slow, steady DEFLATION as productivity increases. This is the NATURAL direction of prices in a growing economy with increasing productivity. This preserves and increases a person's purchasing power, without having to raise the minimum wage.
The reason wages haven't kept up is that fiat allows for inflation of prices, but there is psychological resistance to upping wages, which is necessary for prices to 'stick'. Now, if you WANT to have the price rises, you MUST manage the wages to match. In the absence of a currency that would FORCE this, you must legislate it.
This is where the resistance comes in. But if you insist on fiddling with the economy, you must be prepared to mitigate the damages you cause to the natural order. The more you fiddle with, the more mitigating you have to do.
"The adoption of the so-called “Save Our Swiss Gold” initiative would be a “fatal error of judgment,” Thomas Jordan, president of the Swiss National Bank , told Swiss newspaper 20 Minuten in an interview published Wednesday."...
But of course?...
What else were "we" expecting when "good delivery" keeps rearing it's ugly head?!!!
To the government(s) of Germany and the Netherlands...
Just keep telling yourselves you'll be getting all your "phyz" back from Manhattan soon and that you are stronger with the NATO alliance then you ever could be without it! No worries?... Things will eventually settle down in Iraq and Syria and that larger North American currency that dominates your's will eventually bear fruit again... -No really!... Honest!!!!
I would say that the "Fatal Error of Judgement" has been the purchase of hundreds of billions worth of euro denominated bonds by the SNB in the last few years!
As we have learned, FX is a policy for creating behavior and not a market price ... but maybe the little guys at the bottom do not understand this.
So, Thomas Jordan is either a little guy or a liar. Take your pick.
Au Canada....
Maybe I should buy a couple cases of "Swiss Army" knifes while they are still on sale... I'll sell them on Alibaba at a discount after the Swiss repatriate their gold.
The SNB is scared to death of telling the truth....the truth is they do not have the gold anymore....they cut deals to lease it or sell it I bet...the Swiss stay put...they do not move houses every 5 years like we do....they live a pretty boring life..but with some beautiful women...so a gold standard suits them fine...
20% of the Swiss gold is held by the Bank of England. Can you imagine how many times that gold has been hypothecated into the L.B.M.A?
Yes, AFTER it had been leased out...
Dude, you have no idea ;)
Its not just boring, its Godforsaken place with Godforsaken people for the amount of blood money flowing around.
Just check the suicide rates and psychological issues.
Did they even mention that it is against the will of Satan?
If this passes, I would stay out of the Twin Towers in New York City, China.
Got my Swiss Gold YES! T-shirt through the post today
:)
Did you also get your radioactivity busting Iodine tablets?
not yet... they're due sometimes in the next 4-5 weeks
Two things I can guarantee you.
1) Tomorrow will be Thursday, and
2) Somebody high up in the Swiss Govt. will mention the word 'terrorists' in relation to this Gold vote before the 30 Nov vote.
Folks, believe me they'll try to weave that word in somehow.
Well..
SNB(+Fed&Co) is the fatal error of the system.
Just confirms what we already know, it's a race to the bottom / to devalue.
Egon would be the first to tell you how much purchasing power the Swiss Franc has lost in the last 30 years.
Good luck to them trying to get this gold initiative passed though, they are clearly pissing against the wind regardless of how popular the public support might actually be.
I suspect some dirty under arm tactics when it comes down to the actual vote. you know, dead people voting no... etc.
Hey look at that... 51% said no, what's are the odds of that happening.
Brought to you by your nearest authoritarian corptocacy.
I say -- Let the SNB be standing by as a backstop in-case this referendum is truly a "Fatal Error of Judgement".
However if The Swiss system does better and no longer needs a fiat money system -- would they then kull all the central bankers and their family and kin, thus ending their bloodline?
I see desperation to retain control while 'Charlie stole the handle and the train couldn't slow down ayyy ay, no way to slow down...
I am sure the Swiss people are against being able to 'get more bang for the franc' as they travel around Europe and buy things. A strong currency is less of a problem than a falling currency - hopefully the Swiss notice how well Japan, Hungary, Argentina, Venezuela, Ukraine, and various EU countries are doing with weak currencies.
GET your GOLD BACK !!! fuck the NWO to hell !!!
More ignorant banker speak.
Folks around here hate bankerz, but they have high hopes from the locals of one of the banking capitals!
Lulz
The referendum WILL pass
The panic is hilarious. This one is going to heat up nicely.
Watch for continued PM bashing in the markets ... "look, see, why back our currency to a commodity losing value"
Hey Jonny, "go get those diebold machines pronto".
Going back on the "gold" standard = Going back on the "paying your bills" standard
I'm Swiss and I voted in favour of the Gold Standard. However, there is very little chance this initiative is becoming Swiss Law. To much disinformation and not enough knowledge in the Swiss population.
Someday people will get it, hopefully the Swiss will lead the way. Honestly, who hasn't figured it out by now; the central banks are obviously running an extortion racket for the TBTF banks. Central bankers always talk about ominous consequences if you should defy their advice/suggestions. How could they possiblly know what will happen before it does since they are clearly incompetent when it comes to basic economic forecasting? I tell you how, because they control the money supply via interest rate manipulation; albeit, presently most reserves are on their balance sheet intstead of in circulation in the economy as new loans. Central banking is the biggest organized crime syndicate in the world and until they are routed the people of the world will contiinue to labor under their yoke of oppression and slavery. Revolution and Freedom!
The probability of a close vote passing is pretty small. When only a few votes are needed to change the outcome, the central bank syndicate will always win.
"maintaining stable prices would be harder to achieve if the call for gold repatriation and increased reserves is approved"
How the fuck can that piece of shit make that statement ?
The last thing the bankers want is a currency they can't steal the value of.
The establishment isn't interested in anything that protects the citizenry.
They want financial despotism and nothing else.
The last few years since 2008, I’ve invested a fair amount of time trying to understand what went wrong in the 2008 financial crisis, and what was being done to supposedly repair the situation. It makes sense for me to be more careful of the state of the world, since I will shortly be 65 and have few of the resources to weather a pronounced financial / social storm. I am greatly concerned what will befall my children in extreme times.
I am convinced there has been no solution to the causes of 2008, and by most accounts, the proposed remedies have served a bloated few, to the great detriment of the many. I fear we can expect little from our leaders, for the system itself has been captured by big money interests.
For some time I have struggled with this, gritting my teeth in that the problem is too big for any single voice (and certainly my small voice) to effect a change in the madness. I’ve been following ZH for some years now, but I must say, it is tiring to see the same GD curses against the world ..with little actual action .Well, I’ve decided it’s a poor excuse, so I’m getting up off my ass, and trying one small thing.
Canada must be one of the richest countries….natural resources, a healthy well educated populace, I could go on….. But all this will mean little in a world where nations have bankrupted themselves, and national currencies are no longer trusted for international trade.
Nations typically hold ‘reserves’ of assets to maintain the value of their currencies, and it used to be that physical gold holdings were an important bulwark of those reserves….but not in the last decades.
The Swiss franc was once lauded as one of the strongest currencies in the world …but Switzerland sold most of its gold , and since then the value of the Franc has fallen 65%.
We all know the usual line: “Devalue the currency so my exports are cheap!” Well I think Peter schiffer has it right that exports are merely a way of balancing imports….and a cheap currency makes imports expensive “
Canada also used to hold gold in its reserves, but has also sold the supply down until we are 81st in the world for gold reserves…just behind Albania……
I just started a petition on Care2: Restore Canadian Gold reserve.. I'm hoping that if enough people sign my petition, we can make a difference….perhaps our petition will help the Swiss in realizing they aren’t the only ones wanting a STRONG currency.
— will you help me collect more by adding your name, and then use the links below to share it on social media?
Here's a link to the petition: http://www.care2.com/go/z/e/Ak2Le
If there's anyone you know who might be able to help me spread the word, please let me know. Thanks so much -- I really appreciate your help!
Fatal FOR WHOM? The satus quo, that's whom. Off with their heads!