24% Of Millennials "Expect" Student Loan Forgiveness

Tyler Durden's picture

It appears the concept of no consequences is now deeply embedded in the American society. As Student loan debtloads surge ever higher - and opportunities grow ever lower - NBC News reports a rather stunning 24% of Millennials said they expect their loans will ultimately be forgiven, according to study released Wednesday by Junior Achievement and PwC US. That helps to explain why delinquency rates are at record highs - aside from the massive debtloads and no high-paying jobs - as students see bankers rigging every market in the world with little to no consequence, one can only imagine the lessons being learned.

 

Heavily delinquent student loans hit a fresh record high of $124.3 billion, up from $121.5 billion in the prior quarter.

 

NBC explains...

 

As NBC News reports,

That could be a lot of accumulated debt, considering the average amount of cumulative student debt for undergraduates in the class of 2012 was $26,885, according to a recent Pew Research report. The average debt for 2013 graduates is expected to be even higher.

 

"It's a scary statistic," said Jack Kosakowski, president of Junior Achievement, which co-sponsored the Ypulse survey. The survey conducted for Junior Achievement, "Millennials & College Planning," did not address why the students thought their loans would be forgiven, and it was the first year the question was included in the survey.

 

The report also found that 60 percent of millennials surveyed said financial aid is a deciding factor in their school choice and 21 percent said the cost of college was their family's main financial problem.

*  *  *

Given the following, it is hardly surprising they hope and expect for forgivness...

The following are 18 sobering facts about the unprecedented student loan debt crisis in the United States…

#1 According to the Wall Street Journal, the class of 2014 is “the most indebted ever“…

As college graduates in the Class of 2014 prepare to shift their tassels and accept their diplomas, they leave school with one discouraging distinction: They’re the most indebted class ever.

 

The average Class of 2014 graduate with student-loan debt has to pay back some $33,000, according to an analysis of government data by Mark Kantrowitz, publisher at Edvisors, a group of web sites about planning and paying for college. Even after adjusting for inflation that’s nearly double the amount borrowers had to pay back 20 years ago.

#2 In 1994, less than half of all college graduates left school with student loan debt.  Today, it is over 70 percent.

#3 Approximately 15 percent of graduate and professional school students leave school with student loan debt balances in the six figures.

#4 At this point, student loan debt has hit a grand total of 1.2 trillion dollars in the United States.  That number has grown by about 84 percent just since 2008.

#5 According to the Pew Research Center, nearly four out of every ten U.S. households that are led by someone under the age of 40 is paying off student loan debt right now.

#6 The median net worth of young households that have student loan debt is 20 percent lower than the median net worth of young households that do not have any student loan debt and that are led by someone with only a high school education.

#7 Among college educated people, the median net worth of young households that do not have student loan debt is seven times higher than the median net worth of young households that do have student loan debt.

#8 In 2008, approximately 29 million Americans were paying off student loan debts.  Today, that number has ballooned to 40 million.

#9 Since 2005, student loan debt burdens have absolutely exploded while salaries for young college graduates have actually declined

The problem developing is that earnings and debt aren’t moving in the same direction. From 2005 to 2012, average student loan debt has jumped 35%, adjusting for inflation, while the median salary has actually dropped by 2.2%.

#10 According to CNN, 260,000 Americans with a college or professional degree made at or below the federal minimum wage last year.

#11 Even after accounting for inflation, the cost of college tuition increased by 275 percent between 1970 and 2013.

#12 Debt for law school students has risen dramatically over the past decade or so

J.D.s certainly don’t come cheap. It’s almost unheard of to attend law school without taking out significant loans. What’s more, the average debt load is mounting: in 2001-2002, JDs borrowed on average $46,500 at public law schools and $70,000 at private law schools; by 2011, those numbers rose to $75,700 and $125,000, respectively.

#13 Last year it was being reported that 34.9 percent of all student loan borrowers under the age of 30 are at least 90 days behind on their student loan payments.

#14 One survey found that 27 percent of those with student loan debt moved back in with their parents after college.

#15 Another survey found that 70 percent of all college graduates wish that they had spent more time preparing for the “real world” while they were still in school.

#16 Student loan debt is causing many young Americans to delay getting married.  The following is from a recent NBC News article

While there is no specific data on student debt-related delays to marriage, a recent study by the Pew Research Center shows that a record number of Americans have never married. The study found the median age at first marriage is now 27 for women and 29 for men. In 1960, the median age was 20 for women and 23 for men.

#17 Many Americans are not even using most of their student loan money to pay for college.  Instead, many are using much of that money to pay bills or stock the fridge

Take Ray Selent, a 30-year-old former retail clerk in Fort Lauderdale, Fla. He was unemployed in 2012 when he enrolled as a part-time student at Broward County’s community college. That allowed him to borrow thousands of dollars to pay rent to his mother, cover his cellphone bill and catch the occasional movie.

 

 

Tommie Matherne, a 32-year-old married father of five in Billings, Mont., has been going to school since 2010, when he realized the $10 an hour he was making as a mall security guard wasn’t covering his family’s expenses. He uses roughly $2,000 in student loans each year to stock his fridge and catch up on bills. His wife is a stay-at-home mother who also gets loans to take online courses.

 

We’ve been taking whatever we can for student loans every year, taking whatever we have left over and using it to stock up the freezer just so we have a couple extra months where we don’t have to worry about food,” says Mr. Matherne, who owes $51,600 in federal loans.

 

Some students end up going deeper into debt. Early last year, when Denna Merritt lost her long-term unemployment benefits, the 49-year-old Indianapolis woman enrolled part-time at the Art Institute of Pittsburgh’s online program, aiming for a degree in graphic design. She took out $15,000 in federal loans, $2,800 of which went to catch up on unpaid bills, including utilities, health-insurance premiums and cable.

 

“Obviously, it’s better not to use it that way if you can help it, because you’re just going to owe that much more later,” says Ms. Merritt, a former bookkeeper.

#18 Only 28 percent of Americans know that the U.S. government can garnish wages and withhold tax refunds if student loan debts are not repaid.

It should come as no surprise that the delinquency rate on student loan debt in this country is far higher than the delinquency rate on mortgages, auto loans and credit card debt.

This is a financial bubble that gets worse with each passing year, and if we continue on our current course it is going to end very, very badly.

*  *  *

Now where would they get the idea that forgiveness will happen?

"The challenges of managing student loan debt can lead some borrowers to fall behind on their loan payments and in some cases even default on their debt obligation," notes the always astute White House... and so it's time to do something about that... by bailing the bad debtors out with US taxpayers money. As we have been vociferously warning, not only has the student loan debt bubble expanded massively (as the easiest credit substitute for real-world working and unemployment) but delinquencies on the 'easily available' credit is soaring with "consequences such as a damaged credit rating, losing their tax refund, or garnished wages." Consequences, as we have been taught now, are not acceptable for this administration and so President Barack Obama issued an executive action in June aimed at making it easier for young people to avoid trouble repaying student loans.

A Federal Government bailout...?

As Reuters reported,

President Barack Obama will issue an executive action on Monday aimed at making it easier for young people to avoid trouble repaying student loans, a White House official said on Sunday.

 

The president will sign an order directing the secretary of education to ensure that more students who borrowed federal direct loans be allowed to cap their loan payments at 10% of their monthly incomes, the official said.

 

Federal law currently allows most students to do this already. The president's order will extend this ability to students who borrowed before October 2007 or those who have not borrowed since October 2011, the official said.

 

The administration says this action will help up to 5 million more borrowers, although it will not be available until December 2015.

* * *

Welcome to the real world, debt serfs...

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Bumbu Sauce's picture

They should expect little yellow masters.

Haus-Targaryen's picture

I am a millenial.  Education is a bubble and I know it will get forgiven. 

Plus there are more loopholes in the PAYE scheme than there is in Swiss Cheese.  I'll pay back like 10% of it.  The rest, if planned for accurately is free money. 

Thanks you fucking Boomers.

mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

If you have the intellect to figure out how to scheme the system and lay off your debt onto others, why did you bother attending college in the first place?  Should have just gone right to Goldman ala Leo DiCaprio in Catch Me if You Can.

lordylord's picture

"I am a millenial.  Education is a bubble and I know it will get forgiven."

Delinquency used to be something to be ashamed of.  I guess not for the millenials. 

Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

you are right about delinquency. Im not saying Im for loan forgiveness, and Im not saying Im against it, I'd just like to point out one thing: that which can't be repaid, won't be. Once you look at it like that, from the govts prospective, they will probably think they will win over a lot of support by instituting loan forgiveness, and once you realize it will NEVER be repaid anyway, it will begin to look like a good idea. Its basically either loan forgiveness or debtors prison. The other possibility is that they allow it to be discharged in bankrupcy

Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

Just de facto forgiveness by inflation like everything else.

onewayticket2's picture

delinquency is no longer shame, it's a decent investment decision.  Free money if you default....and prove hardship.   and Hillary ao Warren are going to offer it up in exchange for votes....just watch.

 

liberals are the ones without the shame.  millenials are just taking advantage of it.

PT's picture

When one person is an idiot, he has to pay for his idiocy.  When everyone is the same type of idiot, the rules can change.  You can turn a cow but it is harder to control a whole stampede.

csmith's picture

"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools."

 

Herb Spencer

The9thDoctor's picture

It appears the concept of no consequences is now deeply embedded in the American society.

Tyler summed up the LENDERS in this situation.  Lets take 18 year olds who don't know any better... these 18 year olds have been brainwashed and lied to for the last 5 years that if they don't take out these loans and get a degree, they will be making $8 an hour the rest of their lives 'flipping burgers' with no hopes of a promotion or advancement beyond that.

The lenders are lending five figures to an 18 year old with no experience and no way to pay it back, as most of these degrees offered have no career at the end of them.

Not only that, with this irresponsible lending, universities can increase tuition to stratosphere, knowing that their prey can just borrow moar and moar to catch up with these unrealistic rates!

If I was lending my money, I wouldn't lend it to a 18 year old who doesn't know what to do with it.  I would lend money to someone starting a business, and they better have a darn good business plan!

It's irresponsible lending that caused this disaster.  Quit blaming naive teenagers.

 

gswifty's picture

I logged in at the library to up you, but for some reason can't. Good comment.

Bill Brasky's picture

It's also irresponsible borrowing.

PT's picture

One irresponsible bankster can lend to thousands of irresponsible borrowers.
The bankster gets a bonus.
The competing banksters get passed over for promotion / fired / go bankrupt.
The idiot borrowers bid up prices so responsible people can't afford to buy anything.
Responsible people have to either compete against idiot borrowers, become idiot borrowers, or do without.
It takes time for the punishment to filter through the system - idiot borrowers go bankrupt and lose their stuff.
Which can have little consequence if they are stupid enough as the banksters will continue to lend them more money because that is how the banksters get rich.
Prices have not been allowed to go down to reflect the fact that people cannot afford to buy over-priced stuff.  The time lapse between borrowing to buy stuff and not making repayments has totally corrupted the supply-demand pricing mechanism.
Banksters have been bailed out instead of allowed to go broke.  The failed banksters did not lose their jobs.  They did not even lose their bonuses.

yellowsub's picture

So to sum it up, parents are negligent and kids are borderline retarded.

The only blame I have is the unionized racket called public education that failed the kids but that is what they are supposed to do.

I and many on here went through the same things and made decisions based on current financial situation and decided on  a dgree based on the hot jobs in the next decade to not be saddled with debt later.

I never applied my way through school and at least took 10 minutes to do a few searches and this is when AOL was still dial up.

What excuse do they have when the internet is in thier hands?   Instead of getting brain damage playing the Kardashian app.

Education should not be mandatory for one.  When things are taken for granted you have this type of society who feels everything is entitled.  For the most part education in other countries is not free and is why you kids more dedicated and smarter than American children busy killing themselves playing the choking game...

max2205's picture

Do it for the children

 

10% loan

5% state tax

20% fed tax

5% property tax

6% sales tax

10% Obamacare tax

4% soc sec tax

60% gone 40% left for car house food cable internet

 

- 10 to -20% in debt to credit cards

 

Do it for the children

 

Do IT To the children!

csmith's picture

"...they will probably think they will win over a lot of support by instituting loan forgiveness,"

I'd be careful with this line of reasoning. Old people (payors) vote; young people (payees) don't.

Miffed Microbiologist's picture

A bank has the responsibility to not loan money to someone without the ability to repay it. An individual has the responsibility to not take on so much debt he is unable to repay. Both hold a role. If the banks were not bailed out, they would not make such loans nor would individuals take on too much debt if forgiveness was unlikely.

Without a reset and a return to fundamentals, the whole thing is a fucking mess. Participate in this farce at your own risk and I kept my kids out of it.

Miffed

SelfGov's picture

Usury was a crime long before the money changers instilled unreasonable guilt in people for being, "delinquent."

 

http://jimmyakin.com/wp-content/uploads/misc/6a00d8341bfbfe53ef014e88892...

SelfGov's picture

How exactly have the banks and governments, "...clearly proved that this [education] enables the borrower to obtain profits which he would not have made without it?"

From the link you posted that is what is required to justify the interest.

 

I think it has been proved time and time again that an education doesn't lead to more profits. 

Bill Brasky's picture


Students voluntarily enter into the contracts. It is their legal and moral obligation to follow-through with what they agreed upon. Moreover, they DO take the loans under the belief that they will obtain profits which they would not have made without it; they are investing in their own personal capital, and investments always entail risk. Sometimes this investment pays-off, and other times it doesn't, which is why investment requires prudence and foresight.

The problems with our education system stem from a lack of free markets and respect for property rights (government-backed loans, fractional reserve banking, arbitrary interest rates, ect.). To attempt to alleviate these problems by doing more of what caused them will be absolutely futile. I mean, somebody always has to pay as well; why should it be those who did not enter into the contract?

The9thDoctor's picture

Students voluntarily enter into the contracts. It is their legal and moral obligation to follow-through with what they agreed upon.

Moral obligation.  That's hilarious.  These contracts use size 8 point font that you can hardly read, run on for many many pages of legalese where you need to hire some lawyer prick to read it for $200 an hour just to get it.  Then the contracts are beyond one-sided.  The lender has all of these waivers and rights and can change the terms of the contract at will, but you the sucker signing it still have to play the rigged game.

If you would like to discuss "morals" lets discuss how immoral it is for these legal teams that type up these travesties.

If you would like to discuss morals, it's unanmiously men in their middle age typing these scams up, to hoodwink the youth of our society.

These lopsided lending practices is what's immoral.

Last time I checked, Jesus cleansed the Temple.  He didn't bust the chops of the people getting ripped off by the moneychangers.

Your "moral obligation" argument is like looking through the wrong end of a telescope.

Bill Brasky's picture

And yet, no one is forcing people into these contracts. If people refused to enter into contracts they don't understand, I assure you the contracts would change.

Are you saying, absent the use of force or coercion, people should not be responsible for their own actions?

PT's picture

In short, the kiddies are victims of the greatest betrayal of trust - they have to go against the advice of parents and teachers.  Other than that, yeah, they should have had a better look at what they were signing up for.  And it is about time parents and teachers woke up to the fact that the world around them has changed.  But at the end of the day the bankster should take the most blame because the banksters knew better.  They've had 20 years worth of intense lending experience where the kiddies are probably taking out their first loan ever - with the blessing of their "trusted advisors" - parents and teachers.  Hardly an even match.

You are right that the taxpayers should not be forced to pay for the stupidity of the kids or the greed of the banksters, but if you expect the kiddies to pay up then you're dreaming.  Like the other guy said, that which cannot be repaid, won't be.

An equitable solution will not be forthcoming unless the real victims - the sensible people who do not sign open contracts or borrow more than they can afford to repay - get some political power.  Remember, those who managed their money wisely missed out on the higher education (Yes, you can debate whether or not they missed anything).  Or if they did manage to get the higher education, they had to pay much more than what was necessary due to prices being bid up by idiots and their banksters.  The idiots are powerless without their banksters.  But the banksters will always be able to find enough idiots to start up a bidding war and leave the rest of the population to either put up or do without.

Bill Brasky's picture

+1 for a balanced, ad hominem-free, response!

I would only add that the bankers would also be powerless without government and it's mafia-style force. Without these economically unstable government policies, bankers would have to suffer the losses themselves; a sure-fire way to keep them in check.

Bill Brasky's picture

The foundation of morality is that individuals own the consequences of the exercise of their own free agancy. Morality cannot exist without free agency.

To shield someone from these consequences, is to shield them from moral culpability, or morality itself.

PT's picture

All well and good but when the banksters are allowed to lend to idiots, the damage is well and truly done before the idiots have to pay for their stupidity.  If you have to wait for the idiots to go broke then you have already lost.

And you are losing more and more, every single day that you wait for consequences to catch up to the idiots.  The banksters are the enablers.  The idiots are just coming along for the ride.

Earl Slaughter-- Truck Driver.'s picture

Unbelievable. This asshole expects the average 17-18 y.o. to have the acuemen and legal expertise as a gang of banker attorneys? I don't know about you, but at that age, I was a smart kid, but I lacked experience in the world, and certainly didn't have enough to make life-long decisions without guidence.

Bill Brasky's picture

It does not require legal expertise, merely common sense. It is as simple as not signing something you do not understand.

Furthermore, forgiving the debt is no solution to the problem. It only encourages more foolish behavior. Whatever you subsidize, you get more of. Thus, if you subsidize poor financial decisions, you will surely get more of it, along with rampant abuse. And any reward to the foolish, implicity punishes the prudent in this situation; a great injustice would be done to those who weighed their options and chose not to take on copious amounts of debt in pursuit of "higher education". When forgiveness is all said and done, where is the free degree for the prudent?

It is also worth noting that the lenders did not choose the majors of the borrowers- THE BORROWERS DID. So, if they find themselves in a situation where they have a worthless liberal arts degree and no career opportunities to speak of, it is their fault. And if these loans weren't federally-backed, believe me, the lenders would not be handing out loans to idiots who want theatre degrees.

These very same teenagers would not be able to walk into a car dealership and be handed a $20k car loan, because no lender in their right mind would take such a risk on a credit-less, job-less teen with no money. But alas, if there was almost no risk to the lender because the federal government offered up it's tax cattle as collateral, every idiot would be driving off the lot in a shiny new car. 

Bill Brasky's picture

Additionally, at what age, then, are people wise enough to make these decisions? I would really like to know your answer.

Taking your reasoning to its logical end, shouldn't people be prohibited from entering into these contracts until they reach this age of adequate judgement? 

I mean, children are not allowed to enter into contracts because they lack the necessary faculties to responsibly do so. According to you, when should we not consider them children in this respect?

 

Firepower's picture

The BEEEEG debt is from over-priced state Football U and BIG Ivy.

Did you all FORGET that BIGov runs the colleges also? It's the casino working with the bank.

Feudal America: Hunger Games For Kids http://wp.me/p2kmGE-BT

BIGov wants you all enslaved - except for the STEM type clerks who keep tidy their banking systems and engineer public roads.

Bumbu Sauce's picture

Millenials live in the magical reprobate world of post-shame, which is why you see them whoring themselves to utterly base causes.

Crowd source this.

redd_green's picture

Folks who really run the world moved the good jobs to China, Singapore, and what was left of very high tech, to Germany, and France.   Tell me how this is anything like reprobate world of post shame.

Suisse's picture

I don't think France has much in the way of high tech manufacturing or development. 

BrosephStiglitz's picture

@lordylord: As a millenial, one thing I have learned in the last 10 years- making financial decisions based on "shame" or "ethics" tends to lead to you being screwed.

Shame had me paying my rent on time without a steady paycheck coming through.  I should have just invoiced the rent to my company, in lieu of my salary, which I never received.  Over $10k.

Shame had me killing myself and living on a loaf of bread a day, trying to pay down the principle on my student loan on minimum wage.

Where was the shame when US mortgage brokers created a subprime bubble, and a bunch of fucking idiots openly lied on mortgage applications.  NINJA loans, which my generation will pay for*.

And where was the shame when QE and bank bailouts happened?  Where was the shame when in all the trading scandals?  Where was the shame in austerity and rising taxes?  Where was the shame when industrial jobs were outsourced?

The list goes on.  Sorry.  I'm out of fucks to give at this point.  If I can ever afford to pay my debt back, I will.  Right now I'm scrabbling to have food and shelter.

A retort to your incredibly ignorant statement about people's motivations for becoming deliquent: "Debt used to be something that was affordable."  It always is when economic growth is peachy.  Try paying off debt in an economic downturn where real economic growth is negative.  I fucking triple-dog-dare you.

*PS- I am European and I'm still paying for the actions of some fat, slovenly and downright dishonest American citizen who thought they could game the system and get a free house.  At least my investment on margin was in a STEM subject.

PPS: I guess if it isn't your kids heading into the neo-feudal society (I'll forgive your debt if you work 30 years in my factory/on my land as my debt-slave/as a soldier in a war you probably won't return from) it's fine to be an armchair warrior, and pretend your shit doesn't stink.

lordylord's picture

BrosephStiglitz

Thanks for the invite to your pity party.  The first step to recovery is to stop blaming everyone else for your poor choices and bad luck.

BrosephStiglitz's picture

Sure, no problem.  I'll say the same thing when people riot because they cannot afford to eat.  Might be you that gets the hatchet.

Or if your assets get seized to pay down this massive debt bubble.  Or if they get hyperinflated away.  Or even if a jet engine sheers off a passing jet-plane and crushes you.

Consider yourself 100% accountable in all of those scenarios too.

Edit: also, you completely missed my point, jackass.  I worked in two jobs (one for a good salary on paper, and the second minimum wage).  The "good on paper" job ended up with me getting paid a fraction of what I was contractually entitled to because of private sector cash flow issues.

The second was minimum wage where I started eating away at the principle on the debt by eating bread, drinking water and sleeping on a friend's couch.

Must be great to have the world figured out in your old age.  Enjoy your retirement while it lasts.  Because this "controlled take-down" of people's ability to remain financially independent is going to rear its ugly head at your generation soon.

MaldelBot's picture

Poor people can afford to eat themselves into a weight caused disability. I am not sure when that is likely to change, bread and circus and all that. 

BrosephStiglitz's picture

For now.  Bread and circuses stop when lending to government stops.  That day of reckoning is also going to come.

Haus-Targaryen's picture

Speaking of poor choices,

how much of your retirement is in USD, as a percentage, and of that -- how much of that is SS? 

Enjoy poverty in your old age, and realising that YOUR generation, in one generation did what the British (twice),  the Spanish, the Confederates, the Indians, the Germans (twice) and the Soviets -- could never do; destroy the USA. 

I hope you selling your children into post-Roman feudalism is worth getting free shit paid for by 30 year inflation adjusted debt.

Jlasoon's picture

@lordylord Go fuck yourself. Both my wife and I work in a hospital. We make very good money. But that big money came a cost. An expensive one at that. We essentially have a mortgage payment without the house. People saving lives on a daily basis have a ton of debt. Did they make a poor choice? Was it bad luck? Once again go fuck yourself. The deck is stacked and you know it. Stop it with the self-righteous bullshit. 

BrosephStiglitz's picture

For what it is worth- I respect the hell out of you and your wife for your dedication and hard work.  As with the handful of my more successful friends (who are the minority, I might add), I wish you all the best.

I would never detract from someone who grafted hard to get somewhere.  But people need to stop acting like it is a realistic expectation for every individual to have the intelligence, or the ability to become a neuro-surgeon.  Anyone who has ever looked at a normal distribution function, should be aware that this is not the case.

Make all the arguments you want for the kurtosis, or how skewed the normal distribution function is, ultimately the fundamentals remain unchanged.

Dingleberry's picture

I feel bad for the millinials...I truly, truly do.

But the fact remains they vote overwhelmingly socialist.

I cannot blame them fully for this, as they are young, stupid and were indoctrinated by socalist union parasite teachers.  We were all young and dumb. 

Once.

 

The only good thing that could come from this is to

#1: stop blaming others, or looking for a scapegoat for all this mess, as you had a hand in it too (unless you want to count the government-collegiate-banker complex who fucked you over).

#2:  Stop voting for ANYONE who promises you free shit, it takes a village, etc. from either party.  Although one party has it down to an art form.

 

You are no longer young.

Act like it.

And serve as a warning to those who come after you.

 

p.s. just becuase you work in a hospital deson't mean shit. I spent a career in one, and you would have to save many lives to catch up with me.

Go without a garbage man, electricity, a farmer for a couple of weeks and see how your life changes.

You chose your fate. You get paid.  Live with it.

 

BrosephStiglitz's picture

Perhaps others are socialist, but I am not.  I am overwhelmingly capitalist and a fiscal conservative.  I've always paid my taxes.  I've never asked for a hand-out from the government and I have started my own business in the past.  It ran out of capital before revenue could be realized.  I intend to start another.  I just take offense to the notion that everyone everywhere can somehow survive if they just work harder. 

That has never been the case.  That will never be the case.  Older people who use their "life experiences" to point this view out, and reference their life as irrefutable evidence of this statement, are just fucking stupid.  So sorry, but it's true.

Edit: and on that note, having vented, I am going to go back to more productive things than trying to educate ignorant retirees on the internet.

PS: your name is fitting, because once again you show all the hallmarks of the ignorance I have come to expect out of the generational divide.

Dingleberry's picture

 

 

Don't hate me...I tried to warn y'all thru the years. 

Hate on your peers. They were the lemmings, as you well know.

And YOU need to ACCEPT SOME RESPONSIBILITY for your actions.

You claim to be a conservative....but you are acting like a flaming liberal (blaming others, getting mad, etc.)

Reality is a bitch. Deal with it.

And for God's sake man......SACK THE FUCK UP!

 

BrosephStiglitz's picture

Of course I have made mistakes over the years.  I try to learn from them and grow, rather than wallow in pity.  Be that as it may, people generally ARE herded like cattle these days. 

Now that people are beginning to educate themselves in these areas of lemmingdom, there is no excuse if the world goes to shit for our children, (or I suppose your grandchildren?)  The burden of a brighter future, regardless of the past, is our burden to bear.

Used to be part of the herd.  Should have found ZH earlier.

BrosephStiglitz's picture

Also- if some asshole like you showed up at the door tomorrow with state backing and claimed I had two choices.  Be a slave.  Or pay it all back plus interest.

I would kill myself on the spot, which would, under the terms of the loan, cancel the debt.

I don't say that for pity, but I am absolutely serious and 100% resolved to do so.  It is a matter of principle for me, to die free, rather to live an oblique life of servitude, barely affording interest repayments.

Haus-Targaryen's picture

You must have an older Fed. student loan.  The new ones read like life insurance, and suicide doesn't forgive the loan if;

1) You are married or in a civil union

2) You are still claimed as a dependent at the  time of the suicide. 

So if you are doing your own thing, and you kill yourself the loan goes away.  If you are married and kill yourself, your spouce now not only has to bury you, but he/she has incurred all of your student loan debt that will not be discharged in bankruptcy. 

So the public policy on this is;

1) If you want to kill yourself, and you love your spouce -- don't because you fuck them for the next 30 years. Imagine how the pain turns to anger to hatred in the future as 15 years on they are having to write checks to pay off their old spouce's debts as they fucked them.

2) If you want to kill yourself and you hate your spouce -- do it.

BrosephStiglitz's picture

You're right but it was similar to the old-style Fed. loan but in Europe (which tend to be laggards in adopting US education policies.)

Under the new loan system I would not put the burden on the people I loved and cared about.  Good luck to anyone who is in my shoes with a newer loan.  The only option for them is to go to war with the system (also something I would not advocate.)

My approach is passive but the newer loans do not even allow for that.