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"No, Taxes Are Not What We Pay For Civilized Society"
Submitted by Simon Black via Sovereign Man blog,
“Taxes are what we pay for civilized society.”
The famous quote by US Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. is inscribed above the entrance to the headquarters of the Internal Revenue Service.
Most people don’t have a clue what he meant, or in what context the statement was made. They simply parrot it around to justify the state’s racketeering behavior.
The logic is as twisted as saying “war is the price we pay for peace” or “debt is the price we pay for recovery.”
They’re all logical fallacies, and assertions backed by zero objective evidence.
There’s not much that’s civilized about confiscating people’s assets at gunpoint and spending it on bombs, drones, and wars.
In fact, taxes in the United States are not even a civil matter– they’re an entirely criminal matter. As nearly every tax communication duly informs us, you can be thrown in jail for failing to file a form.
This is not how a ‘civilized society’ conducts itself.
At the time when Justice Holmes wrote that statement, the average tax rate in the Land of the Free was 3.5%.
Today they keep raising taxes, and they keep printing money, because they’ve built an unsustainable system that depends on debt, overconsumption, and war in order to maintain itself.
Everyone knows it can’t last. And to change the system, they put their confidence in the electoral system. As President Obama himself has said on numerous occasions, “Don’t boo. Vote.”
The truth is that voting is a complete waste of time. The “change” is always hollow; the new guy almost invariably comes an incarnation of the last guy.
US government debt now stands at nearly $18 trillion, and they’re borrowing money just to pay interest on the money they’ve already borrowed.
They blow through almost 100% of their tax revenue just by paying interest and mandatory entitlements like Medicare.
They could literally eliminate almost the entirety of government and still not be able to balance the budget.
Of course, no politician is ever going to admit that or act accordingly. So does it really matter who is piloting the Hindenburg?
The far more powerful way to vote is with your actions.
This, and the whole context behind justice Oliver Wendell Holmes’ statement (it’s rather revealing, really), is what we cover in today’s podcast.
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the 16th amendment was never ratified what is exempt income? all income taxes pay down interest for debt that was produced out of edward quinces ass
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCR18XARnII
Tariff taxes the Founders enacted supported a civic infrastructure
The welfare society, enabled by income taxation and regulation is the most dehumanizing and decivilizing force in the modern world.
Yup, funding for jobs and economic activities should come from money printing and not tax.
Taxes are used for two things today:
1. Vote buying
2. Control/Slavery
< Don't mess with taxes.
< Don't mess with Texas.
Income tax is slavery. If they can take a dime, they can take it all.
pods
Audio on the story started up and scared the shit out of me.
Warn a dude..... before starting a multimedia extravaganza!
Everyone should rent and show their children the movie Nazareth. Those who are unchurched may not think much of most of the movie, but there is a scene in the movie about when the Romans drop by to collect taxes that all can appreciate. Plus ca la change, plus ca la meme chose.
Taxation is theft. Those who supports any kind of taxation fall into one of two categories. Those who benefit from taxes and want others to pay for their good/services and misguided do-gooders. Call me a selfish loser. Go ahead. The thing is, the people who benefits from taxes are the real selfish losers. And don't give me the "we all benefit from taxes" BS. No! I overpay for goods/services while others get it for free.
You are too kind!
I agree taxation is theft. That means those who support any kind of taxation fall into one category: thieves.
Our federal income theft...I mean tax dollars do not pay for ONE PENNY of ANY federal goverment program. ALL of it goes to pay for the interest on the debt the Federal Reserve conjurs out of thin air. At least, that is what the Grace Commission Report outlines.
Fuck the Fed, Fuck the IRS, Fuck the TSA, Fuck the CIA, Fuck CONgress, Fuck the Imperial Presidency, Fuck the NSA, Fuck the DOJ, Fuck the DEA, Fuck the FDA, Fuck every god damned acronym those man pussy shit tards create. FUCK EM ALL!!!!!
Taxes pay the interest on the loans taken out on the future productivity of unborn slaves.
Fuck the overlords.
You exceeded the IRS limit of 11 Fuck's per post. You are hereby fined the national debt.
Well sure, but building an interstate highway system, an internet, massives dams, etc etc might be a little more expensive than cutting dirt toll roads around 13 colonies.
The US military is far more dehumanizing than welfare and food stamps.
Yup, funding for jobs and economic activities should come from money printing and not tax.
You can not print money without taxation.
Taxation compels people to use the specific currency in question. That is why you can not pay your taxes in a foreign currency. The tax structure makes it too costly for the 99% of us to use an alternate currency. WIthout taxation, printing money would lead people to shift away from the inflated money in favor of more stable currencies.
How tax collections are spent or where the money goes are discussions that are no more relevent than examining why the Roman soldier's drew straws for Jesus' clothes.
Sure you can, it's just a computer file. Edit a few digits, and lots of money.
Without the barrel of a gun, you can not force everybody to use your computer file.
Get rid of taxes and your digits will not move.
Charming Anarchist is actually correct, which is why fiat currencies are, in fact, "fiat" (latin for "by decree"). Without a means of encouraging (carrot) and/or forcing (stick) the use of a currency, it will not be used. This is the basis of Greshem's Law. What is the value of Confederate dollars today? Who still uses them?
Tally sticks in middle ages England are a perfect example (please look them up) of why the power of taxation is what gives non-money currency its "value".
Even worse , there were three different versions passed by 9 states that differed greatly
from the one that didn't pass.
SCOTUS has ruled four seperate time that the 16th gave the FedGov no new powers to tax
income under its provisions.
Citations, please.
I guess it takes a supreme asshole to be on the highest court.
The only supreme I respect is Tina Turner and green peppers, onions and peppy on my pizza.
the 16th amendment was never ratified
It doesn't matter either way.
We have one group of men taking everyone else's money by force. Whether they have the "right" pieces of paper to authorize their robbery is nothing but a silly distraction.
We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.
Interestingly, Section 61 of the Internal Revenue Code defines "gross income" as "all income from whatever source derived." So it defines "income" with the word "income." Thus "gross income" is not defined.
wait 'til the Ferguson DA announcement, see how civilized "we" really are in 2014
When is the verdict?
Probably a safe bet to avoid McDonald's around that time.
pods
Might simply want to avoid it all together, lol.....
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/11/breakfast-beatdown-hungry-women-...
Haha.. Taxes. Civilized. Hilarious.
Ya, real civilized. I will take your money and give it to someone else. Legalized theft---real Civilized.
I always love Simon's podcast. It's a nice combination of history and finance.
Only a Terrist would complain about paying their fair share.......
Especially when your fair share becomes.....ALL OF IT!!
All of it including your first born male children.
Yes, especially then Comrade.......
Taxes are what we pay to live under tyranny. It's pretty evident that things were much more free 110 years ago when there was also much less taxation. In other words taxation is inversely proportional to liberty. It is an absolute perogative that we free ourselves from these sickening nanny-staters and their Jewish rat masters if we are ever to have the hope of living under anything even remotely close to liberty. Thomas Jefferson would approve of what must be done and that's enough for me.
Well that makes two of us but short of famine I don't see enough people with nothing to lose to make it happen.
Like any other parasite the Jews will bleed us until there is nothing left to bleed. What we really need is a militant political organization like Golden Dawn or dare I say it, Hezbollah, here in the US.
You vote for vision & leadership ... taxes & bureaucracy is what u get!
Ah yes, dear old O.W. Holmes Jr, who delivered a stirring defense of eugenics in Buck v. Bell ("...It is better for all the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind....")
Somebody, other than the FSA and government stooges, of course, seems to benefit from all this...
The banks.
They can not print money without taxation.
Seeing that the dummycrats re-elected Hairy Reid their leader - it reminds me - isn't he the guy that eliminated the filibuster?
Wonder if they are going to wish they had that back after Jan.................
but but if i don't pay taxes ... how will i get a refund?
Taxes give our currency legitimacy. They can also serve to redistribute wealth when inequality threatens our economic stability.
'Wealth is not "distributed" ...it is created!' - Thomas Sowell
These days, much of the ability to create wealth is through manipulating leverage created by banksters. The way to take it back is to tax it. The fines they get for manipulating markets are only a speed bump in wealth extraction.
That is not 'creating wealth.' That kind of thing is good old fascist tax payer extortion only enabled by a bloated wreckless corrupt & opaque bureaucracy. Illegal 'redistributionist' theft of YOUR big dollars!
hahaha, good one.
you're funny.
the new MDB?
dunno what MDB means, but I like taxes as a tool to control inflation, along with a Guaranteed Income, which would be part of the radical monetary reform I envision (debt free fiat, full reserve banking).
This is a pretty good paper on The Chicago Plan, I would tweak things a little, but it gives you the gist:
http://monetaryrealism.com/banking-in-the-abstract-the-chicago-plan/
this website used to be interesting. it's become nuts
someone holding a gun to your head forcing you to be here?
considering the crowd here ... i wear downvotes proudly
i've only been here a few months ... and will try and stick around till the recession hits (won't be long)
make me proud!
yes, we used to have posters on zh that could clearly elucidate their views, even if in opposition to the writers.
now, we just get people saying that things are "nuts".
the whole format here sucks.
the upvote/downvote is cowardly .. the old blog i haunted, you had to directly respond to someone.
and waayyy too many posts here (more than half are a complete waste ... other than clickbaits to line ZH's pockets) ... why bother with a detailed comment ... by time you post you find the thread you are on is buried by several new ones ... and everyone gone
Perhaps you could create your own forum with a format that better suits your needs; maybe create a few jobs in the process.
And a lot of people saying, "Taxation is theft."
This is not an endorsement but Scott Walker is not a Democrat.
That logic is NOT twisted. It is based on a time honoured principle : Primacy of fact which is a balance between our PRIMAL urges (irrational) and our logical deductions based on EtHOS, this latter being the fruit of our bitter experience based on past defeats and BATTLES LOST.
Humanity learns more from defeat than from victory. Lesson # 1.
So in this world of SOCIAL conflict where people fight for rights and Oligarchs fight for possession being 9/10s of the law, we need BALANCE. Or we lose it ALL.
That is History's lesson. You cannot have it all.
To make a nation state work, a coherent political cum social construct, you need that balance to express itself in a realistic and workable compromise.
Its called wealth redistribution. Its called taxes and it ALLOWS the sons of the poor to achieve more than their fathers IF they have that capability. It avoids that society degenerates into "divine privilege" where the rich propogate themselves thru inter marriage and resultant genetic decadence.
The redistributive process ensures that the caste system does not perpetrate to a state of total ossification like land of the Pharaohs and that social merits come fast to the top.
So there is much creative benefits from the unwashed becoming the "new bourgoeis". That is also history's lesson.
Unless you be a Taliban, a primitive literal denier, a Wahhabite, a Luddite, a puritan tea drinker, a Judge Scalia who thinks that the US constitution is cast in stone and should ONLY be interpreted in its original context; making the evolution of society a thing of no consequence.
Like a rationalist who thinks, by reverting back into obscurantism under the fear of the unknown, that a creationist piece of paper puts in stone the fate of civilization and its time evolution is of NO consequence to influence the future. What a travesty of the Enlightenment and of Michael Angelo's reconcilitaion between Man and GOD on that papal ceiling, like Aristotle speaking to the Maker as an equal who wants to know WHY, not as a blind believer.
That is what the Oligarchy meme is. A Mafia breeding ground, where law is of no value and knowledge even less. The only rule is : BELIEVE !
And taxes the work of the devil as GOd is a man who thinks the poor have no future!
Civilization then becomes Saudi Arabia !
Speaking of civilized society and other Western Bullshit(TM) anyone remember that Malaysian airliner over Ukraine? Here is a satellite image of what happened released by the Russians. Vid of the news here but I don't speak Russian. Could someone translate?
fake ... geometry is all wrong. From a satellite's PoV, the aircraft and the ground would be almost equidistant, so features would be of similar scale. Yet in this photoshop it appears as though aircraft's features are 20x larger than the ground's.
I can tell right away that you're a satellite photo expert
Our founders understood the history and purpose of taxation very well that is why the constitution limited all taxation to consumption taxes so the taxed could have some degree of control over the tax they paid. The modern version is called the FairTax and it has been a pending piece of legislation in every congress for at least the past 10 years. Check it out, The FairTax. We need to get this out of committee.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scOWoUruKCY
And this is the "civilized society" they provide with what they steal from us:
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=48750
http://www.policestateusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/JamesBoyd2.png
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn5Glv9nhgE
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Kelly_Thomas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsDBAixXJdM
And many, many, more.
That is their idea of a "civilized society."
An American, not US subject.
"The best and fastest way to cut taxes, and inflation, is via the guillotine."
The American people really need to realize that a choice is coming whether they like it or not: They can wither away in poverty and misery with everyday a fight to just survive or fight to take back the county, the American country, from these treasonous criminals and murderers.
The choice is coming: Persecution or Revolution.
The Four Rs
Rejection: Quit paying, quit obeying , quit playing
Revolution: It is inevitable, so prepare, as they are.
Retribution: The guilty must answer for their crimes against the American people and the Constitution.
Restoration: Restore the American people, country and Constitutional republic.
An American, not US subject.
“Taxes are what we pay for civilized society.” Over the IRS door.
I believe that it was replaced six years ago with: “Taxes are what we pay for us to persecute Constitution believing/following citizens.”
My Friday humor: "The government accountability office." LOL
An American, not US subject.
"My idea of a "government accountability office," has a guillotine in it."
You could argue it's true. But not in the way the old judge meant. If we don't give them half our paychecks and then some, state parasites will start taking nervous shits in every nook and cranny of civilized society, trying to sabotage every that seems to be bringing any value to society, hence, turning society in a non-civilized one. In that sense, that's true.
During the 2008 election campaign I remember watching an inteview with Ron Paul where he expressed his position against the income tax. The smug reporter then presented what she thought was a landmine argument: "If it weren't for taxes how would the government pay for things like the federal building where you're giving this interview?" To which Ron Paul replied: "Since you bring it up, this very building was built prior to the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 and introduction of the income tax. Indeed, how in the world did they do it?!"
And that's the kind of moment when reporters start searching frantically though their cue cards, until somebody cuts to a commercial.
There was a dozen of identical interviews with RP where reporters nearly swallowed their own tongues... and then eventually the media realized that talking to him was a bad idea all together.
But I like paying taxes.
http://v.i4031.net/StatistFallacies/ILikePayingTaxes
Every time I post "Quit paying. Quit obeying. Quit playing," I get hammered with "but, but...they'll kill me, and/or take everything I own. Blah, blah, blah" Just cowardly excuses, I'd say, participation, in their crimes against yourself.
Well I, and my businesses, haven't paid income taxes to the DC US or any state, since 2003. I haven't paid employment taxes on myself, or employees, to same. I hired my employees as contractors and told them to file if they liked, none did. They liked the high wage more than giving 16% to 30% away to the treasonous criminals called governmnet.
I haven't paid for one drone, missile, bullet, gunship, Humvee, helmet, tazer, phosphorous artillery shell, fighter jet, military salary, gun and badge thug grant, interest to the banksters, SWAT team attack, etc. since 2003. What have you done? What should you be doing?
And I put it all into "metal" savings--Gold, silver, steel and lead. So not only did I Reject" them, I funneled my Rejection into being more prepared for them. I'm ready, are you?
I don't just say it, I live it.
An American, not US subject.
The Four Rs
Rejection: Quit paying, quit obeying , quit playing
Revolution: It is inevitable, so prepare, as they are.
Retribution: The guilty must answer for their crimes against the American people and the Constitution.
Restoration: Restore the American people, country and Constitutional republic.
There was a time when a man was obligated to comply with the taxing authority even if it meant traveling with his late term wife to list.
Where that 2% inflation comes from :http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2009/03/optimal-tax.html
You have more important things to worry about .
King Storm , King Desert and King Lightning .
See the Kings in winter .
Things are actually looking up . See
https://www.academia.edu/9204956/Slingshot_Atmospheric_Rivers
https://www.academia.edu/9304658/Optimal_Deserts
https://www.academia.edu/9306394/Optimal_Lightning_
Our founders understood the history and purpose of taxation very well that is why the constitution limited all taxation to consumption taxes so the taxed could have some degree of control over the tax they paid. The modern version is called the FairTax and it has been a pending piece of legislation in every congress for at least the past 10 years. Check it out, The FairTax. We need to get this out of committee.
No chance it happens. Ever. It destroys the DC cabal and we all know that's a non-starter.
So, another libertarian fuck argues against what he calls a logical fallacy by using two real logical fallacies and then a dozen more logical fallacies in his short sighted, fact challenged argument. Why am I far less than impressed with these anti any tax, anti any governmen,short sighted whack jobs. Read some Thomas Hobbes for fuck's sake.
BUZZ
The fair tax is just a VAT tax which would be increased every year just like the income tax its a false hope. The current income tax is an excise tax on doing business if you are working for yourself it is not taxable , you are not doing business just the pursuit of happiness which is not business. Proceed from the fundamental law. God gives you a body and a limited amount of time your days are numbered. It is your only property if not then who does it belong to? The state? The master on the plantation? Your most precious property can not be taxed as an excise or piece of the action tax. it is tradable one for one for money for exactly what it is worth as decided by you. there is no gain. Income defined by the Supreeme court is gain derived from labor or capital or the combination. No gain no income no income tax.
the current tax law recognizes this , its not as bad as it seems The IRS just has convinced you otherwise.
Let's go take all of Simon's stuff, and then see what he thinks of government.
Does that Lois Lerner lizard person look feckin' civilized?
Taxation is Theft, Slavery and Murder. Its purpose is to fund Amerikan Terrists and their Guns. Its purpose is to feed the vast army of Locust we call Federal Workers to enslave us. Its purpose is to fool you into thinking that the Federal Reserve Note has Value when it has no intrinsic Value beyond its Murder State potential. Its purpose is the Theft of your Life, Libery and Property without Due Process.