Paralyzed Iraq War Veteran's Writes Last Words To Bush & Cheney

Tyler Durden's picture

Submitted by Mike Krieger via Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,

Last March, I came across a letter written to George W. Bush and Dick Cheney from a paralyzed and dying Iraq war vet named Tomas Young. It touched me to such an extent, that I highlighted it on Liberty Blitzkrieg at the time. He died on Monday, the day before Veterans Day. If you really want to honor our nation’s soldiers, you should read the following and share it.

RIP Tomas Young.


Full letter below, from Counterpunch.

My Last Words to George W. Bush and Dick Cheney



I write this letter on the 10th anniversary of the Iraq War on behalf of my fellow Iraq War veterans. I write this letter on behalf of the 4,488 soldiers and Marines who died in Iraq. I write this letter on behalf of the hundreds of thousands of veterans who have been wounded and on behalf of those whose wounds, physical and psychological, have destroyed their lives. I am one of those gravely wounded. I was paralyzed in an insurgent ambush in 2004 in Sadr City. My life is coming to an end. I am living under hospice care.


I write this letter on behalf of husbands and wives who have lost spouses, on behalf of children who have lost a parent, on behalf of the fathers and mothers who have lost sons and daughters and on behalf of those who care for the many thousands of my fellow veterans who have brain injuries. I write this letter on behalf of those veterans whose trauma and self-revulsion for what they have witnessed, endured and done in Iraq have led to suicide and on behalf of the active-duty soldiers and Marines who commit, on average, a suicide a day. I write this letter on behalf of the some 1 million Iraqi dead and on behalf of the countless Iraqi wounded. I write this letter on behalf of us all—the human detritus your war has left behind, those who will spend their lives in unending pain and grief.


I write this letter, my last letter, to you, Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney. I write not because I think you grasp the terrible human and moral consequences of your lies, manipulation and thirst for wealth and power. I write this letter because, before my own death, I want to make it clear that I, and hundreds of thousands of my fellow veterans, along with millions of my fellow citizens, along with hundreds of millions more in Iraq and the Middle East, know fully who you are and what you have done. You may evade justice but in our eyes you are each guilty of egregious war crimes, of plunder and, finally, of murder, including the murder of thousands of young Americans—my fellow veterans—whose future you stole.


Your positions of authority, your millions of dollars of personal wealth, your public relations consultants, your privilege and your power cannot mask the hollowness of your character. You sent us to fight and die in Iraq after you, Mr. Cheney, dodged the draft in Vietnam, and you, Mr. Bush, went AWOL from your National Guard unit. Your cowardice and selfishness were established decades ago. You were not willing to risk yourselves for our nation but you sent hundreds of thousands of young men and women to be sacrificed in a senseless war with no more thought than it takes to put out the garbage.


I joined the Army two days after the 9/11 attacks. I joined the Army because our country had been attacked. I wanted to strike back at those who had killed some 3,000 of my fellow citizens. I did not join the Army to go to Iraq, a country that had no part in the September 2001 attacks and did not pose a threat to its neighbors, much less to the United States. I did not join the Army to “liberate” Iraqis or to shut down mythical weapons-of-mass-destruction facilities or to implant what you cynically called “democracy” in Baghdad and the Middle East. I did not join the Army to rebuild Iraq, which at the time you told us could be paid for by Iraq’s oil revenues. Instead, this war has cost the United States over $3 trillion. I especially did not join the Army to carry out pre-emptive war. Pre-emptive war is illegal under international law. And as a soldier in Iraq I was, I now know, abetting your idiocy and your crimes. The Iraq War is the largest strategic blunder in U.S. history. It obliterated the balance of power in the Middle East. It installed a corrupt and brutal pro-Iranian government in Baghdad, one cemented in power through the use of torture, death squads and terror. And it has left Iran as the dominant force in the region. On every level—moral, strategic, military and economic—Iraq was a failure. And it was you, Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney, who started this war. It is you who should pay the consequences.


I would not be writing this letter if I had been wounded fighting in Afghanistan against those forces that carried out the attacks of 9/11. Had I been wounded there I would still be miserable because of my physical deterioration and imminent death, but I would at least have the comfort of knowing that my injuries were a consequence of my own decision to defend the country I love. I would not have to lie in my bed, my body filled with painkillers, my life ebbing away, and deal with the fact that hundreds of thousands of human beings, including children, including myself, were sacrificed by you for little more than the greed of oil companies, for your alliance with the oil sheiks in Saudi Arabia, and your insane visions of empire.


I have, like many other disabled veterans, suffered from the inadequate and often inept care provided by the Veterans Administration. I have, like many other disabled veterans, come to realize that our mental and physical wounds are of no interest to you, perhaps of no interest to any politician. We were used. We were betrayed. And we have been abandoned. You, Mr. Bush, make much pretense of being a Christian. But isn’t lying a sin? Isn’t murder a sin? Aren’t theft and selfish ambition sins? I am not a Christian. But I believe in the Christian ideal. I believe that what you do to the least of your brothers you finally do to yourself, to your own soul.


My day of reckoning is upon me. Yours will come. I hope you will be put on trial. But mostly I hope, for your sakes, that you find the moral courage to face what you have done to me and to many, many others who deserved to live. I hope that before your time on earth ends, as mine is now ending, you will find the strength of character to stand before the American public and the world, and in particular the Iraqi people, and beg for forgiveness.


-Tomas Young

What’s so impressive about this letter, beyond the incredible emotion and pain behind it, is the fact that Mr. Young was so prescient about so many issues. He highlighted the debacle that became the Veterans Administration scandal before it broke, and he also pointed to the dangerous power vacuum created in Baghdad before the emergence of ISIS. We lost a special soul on Monday.

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Another related post I would strongly suggest reading is: “Stop Thanking Me for My Service” – Former U.S. Army Ranger Blasts American Foreign Policy and The Corporate State.

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Hamm Jamm's picture

rest in peace, Tomas

Comte de Saint Germain's picture

The reality is that the majority of Americans are more concerned about the latest iPhone or Kim Kardashian nude pictures...let's see if the VA has the decency to extend some pension benefits to Tomas Young's survivors.

kliguy38's picture

those psychopaths and the scum that support them will burn in hell......

El Oregonian's picture

For their sakes, I pray that they repent, ask for forgiveness, and make peace with our Maker...

For their soul's sakes.

ZombieHuntclub's picture

I'm sorry for this soldiers passing just as I would be for anyone that dies before their time. I'm curious why he joined the military. Has anyone since 1917 thought the motives of our government were true and good? My father was drafted to go to Viet nam. This generation and mine freely choose to lace up their boots and go to Somalia, Iraq and Afghanistan. Serving their country? Certainly. But let's be honest and say that everyone knows by now what the truth is when you sign on. To say otherwise is disingenuous at best or a falsehood at its very worst. 

OldPhart's picture

My story is as follows.

Both my mother and father were career Air Force NCO's.  The draft had just ended, and in 1978, I believed that I had a a personal duty to protect and defend the Constitution as my parents and many other family members had.

As a kid in the sixties I had a pretty strict, though generally happy, upbringing.  I was even then pretty conservative in outlook.  I had a loathing, from age seven, of hippies after personally watching them gleefully egg wounded airmen that were unloaded too close to the base perimeter.  (I forget where I was, we moved so many was either Norton AFB or Buckley Field AFB.  Most likely Norton, the flightline went right along the road.)

From the age of 8 I wanted to go to the Air Force Academy and become a fighter pilot.  Each year I wrote to my congressman/woman expressing my desire until I reached age 17 and was about to graduate High School.  My Congress lady, Shirley Pettis, had about seven years of my letters attached to my nomination notice.  I had the grades, and should have done well.  I was sent to get a physical for the academy.

It was a much more thorough physical than I had usually received as an AF Brat.  The lady doctor who had her fingers mashing my nuts made a gasp and called in another doctor.  He began to mash my right nut fervently.  He told the lady doctor that he concurred, and they called my mom in as I lowered the half assed GI gown they had me in.

The doctors instructed my mom that I had lumps in my right testicle and that they were most likely cancerous and that I needed immediate castration to save my life.  My mom, GOD BLESS HER, the first family nurse practitioner in the United States, and a AF Reserve Senior Staff Sergeant, kind of took a step backward. 

"Kevin, did you tell them about breaking the horse that stepped on your nuts?"

"No, they didn't ask me anything."

"He's fine, there will be no surgery."

No academy for me.  So I went looking to enlist in the Air Force, but I could never find the AF recruiter and, back then, there was no such thing as voicemail.  On one of my calls I got an answer.  It was the Marine recruiter.

I told him I wanted to enlist in the Air Force, he asked if I'd consider the Marines and would I bring my academics to him.  I was pretty familiar with Marines.  Twenty Nine Palms wasn't too far away, and my cousin would bring between two to twenty buddies to my parents house to relax in the desert far from any concerns.  (We've always, still are, me, mom and dad, firm supporters of our military and will gladly host them, a few at a time, for a weekend.)  I've given drunken haircuts to equally drunk Marines by campfire light because they had promotions the next day.  (really fucked up haircuts because I wasn't a fuckin' barber!)  Anyway, per my personal sense of responsibility, I enlisted in the United States Marines chiefly because the draft had recently ended and there had to be, in my mind, a continuation of the force by volunteers.

I took the oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies, Foreign and Domestic...and have never been relieved of that oath.

Because of my ASVAB and academics, I enlisted as a Private First Class instead of a simple Private, and had a PFC pay classification through Boot Camp.  During Boot Camp I was bright enough to be recognized for Officer Candidate School.  When I enlisted, Boot was sixteen weeks.  We were among the first all volunteer military, but remnants of the draft persisted.  So there was the odd knee in the nuts, punch in the gut and other shit that we all knew was not allowed, but was never reported.  (Knee in the go down.  DI gets a worried look and gets down to where you're gasping.  'I'm very sorry, don't let them see you get pussied.  Get on your feet and look me straight in the eye and then ignore me like I don't exist.  Catch your breath, then get on your feet.')

In the middle of my sixteen weeks boot camp, we had a new policy that kicked in that reduced boot camp to eight weeks for new recruits, the about a week later new recruits had a twelve week boot camp.  I have no idea how long it is today.

Around week thirteen we were sent on a run along the sand of the Camp Pendleton beach...don't know exactly how far but from the time we spent it was ten to fifteen miles.  We were qualifying for marksmanship at the time.  When we got back to our squad bay we were instructed to clean our weapons and then dry practice.

I sat cross-legged cleaning my rifle.  When finished I put it back together and stood up.

My knees locked halfway up, swelled to the point that they actually split my cammies at the seams.  It was, and remains (after carpel tunnel, hernia, nerve impingement in neck and other calamities) the most intense pain I've ever suffered in my life so far.

The DI's sent me to sickbay.  The doctor told me to see him the next day for follow up.  The next day was weapons qualification day, which was a Friday.  I went back, laid down and moaned for a few hours.  The next morning I went to qualification and shot expert.

The rest of the platoon didn't do so well, so we all had a bit of getting our noses rubbed in it.  I couldn't endure, the swelling and pain made 'Mountain Climbers' impossible.  I got singled out by all the DI's.  (Not a good thing.)  One of them grabbed one of my knees and I decked him.

Yeah, decked him, out cold, caught him with a right on his left chin like I knew what I was doing.  His name was Sgt. Trujillo, and I'm still really sorry, man.

There was a brief whaling before the Senior DI quickly stepped in and put a stop to it.  He got into my face and asked didn't you have a problem with your knees?

"Yes, Sir."

"Didn't you go to Sickbay?"

"Yes, Sir."

"What did the doctor tell you?"

"To see him today."

"You disobeyed the direct orders of an officer?!  What were you thinking?"

"That I had to qualify, Sir."

We moved to Advanced Infantry Training the next day and moved to another location on the base (I forget the name, but Mount Motherfucker was prominent in it.)  The Senior DI put me on extreme light duty...meaning I sat on my ass all day doing absolutely nothing.  The platoon drilled in marching and shit.  I think I spent a week that way.

Around the following Friday or Saturday they had us all fall out, including me.  We were marched down to an area where we had to crawl over booby-traps while 50-cal was shot over our heads.  We had set up a camp with tents and our platoon had done so well that no only were we already in precise military alignment with the of our team-mates had already stolen all the pennants of the other platoons before there was any mention of capture the flag.  (Which we expected but didn't happen.)

In the morning we were lined up.  Sgt. Trujillo called me up front.  Handed me a mortar base plate and two mortar rounds, another rifle and two ammo belts filled with what I assumed was ammo.  As I recall the total weight was a little over 100 our normal Alice pack and other carry.  I think I was hauling about 200 pounds on my back, with wobbly and painful knees.

Of we go to Mount MotherFucker.

It's a pretty steep grade on a road filled with stones and rocks.  I think it goes from about sea-level to about a thousand feet or so.  I've already climbed a shitload of mountains by then as a wild-assed desert kid.  But I'd never had my knees go out before.  All I remember is I just kept walking.  Seeing DI's sitting out with privates along the way...until I got to the top, among the last group up.  After a brief rest there was some class on something and we had to walk down a different route....which was worse.  About thirty yards from the bottom my knees gave out and I simply could not stand and, with all the weight on my back, I could barely even move.  I buckled with my feet under my ass, my back lying on my pack, and no leverage to even roll over.

Senior DI showed up in my vision.  "What's wrong?"

"Knees gave out, Sir.  Can't move, Sir."

"Why didn't you unbuckle your pack?"

"No one told me I could, Sir."

He knelt down.  "Unbuckle your pack.  You're done."

"Yes, Sir.  Aye aye, Sir."

He called up four of my platoon.  Two to help me walk the rest of the way, the other two to gather my shit.

Once we got back into formation we made a slow march down the easy grade until we got to our bivouac.  There he informed the entire platoon that I was a model Marine and that I was to be sent to medical rehab so I could complete the training.  Some officer came down the road in a jeep and the Senior DI flagged them down and asked that I be sent back to MCRDSD for medical rehab.  The officer had me get in and we went to the barracks where they waited patiently for me to pack my gear into my seabag.  I hobbled back to the jeep carrying my seabag and they took me to a bus.

The bus took me back the MCRDSD and dumped me at the recruit input station.  I had about another mile or so to walk across the parade field to get to the hospital.  I did so, pissing off a lot of DI's and Gunney's, as I limped/hobbled across the field.

The hospital immediately sent me to Casual company...The reject bin of the marines where the fags, pervs and detritus of humanity go to when they were too vile to kill for their country.  I had the privilege to stay there for two weeks before I was called back to the hospital.

I was put into a room with about a dozen other privates....three officers at the head of the table.  You are being discharged from the Marines, we don't need you at this time, sign at the 'X' on the sheet in front of you.

'Fuck this,' I thought, so I signed.

At least it was an Honorable Discharge...many of the others didn't get that.

From then, to my heart, I'm a fuckin' Marine.

I'm not owed anything, I didn't earn anything.  I don't want anything.  I have not/never will apply for any benefit because I have not earned anything.  There are a shitload of my elders, peers and youngsters that have earned EVERY benefit promised, and they are still getting fucked.  I will never attempt to put myself between what they have truely earned and I have not.

So, Vets, you want someone on your come to my fuckin family.  We still hold traditions of honor....right down to my of which has been in Afghanistan for the last thirteen years in VERY direct support of you that I cannot talk about.  Most of you think of him as an obnoxious, arrogant civilian.  Which he is...but he has been there from the beginning totally to support you.  He just has 'people skill problems'.

Just remembered, this was like 40 years ago...along with the crawl through the booby traps and 50 cal over our heads...before we did this, we had gas training.  You go into a tiny building with CS Tear Gas blowing in i.  You are to get a good whiff of it, then put your mask on, breath a bit, then take the mask off and endure the gas while properly stowing your mask away and doing some other exercise like singing the Marine Corps Hymn or some other shit.  Personally, I didn't find the gas that objectionable other than I had a four foot snot wad coming out my nose, and a peppery burning sensation on my eyes....and that I felt that every breath was like inhaling a big gasp of reefer. 

(Yes, I've tried, I've inhaled, and have actually rolled thousands and thousands of RMJ's (Ready Made Joints) for an Uncle's plantation, and have tried the shit that literally left the world on a 90  degree axis shift.  It's not for me.  Tastes like I'm smoking alfalfa and I get a more controllable high from Tequilla than that shit.  But to each his own.)

Gunney, with mash on, turned to me and said, stay the fuck there.  I was aware that fresh air was about three feet away, but had no idea what he was on about to single me out.  At that point, my snotwad was about six feet long and I was swinging it about in fascination.

"You didn't stow your shit properly!"...Big snotwad is in mid-fling...I look down to see that I had missed the second clasp of the bag holding my gasmask.

I look up just in time to see errant snotwad wind five times around the Gunney and terminate on his lip.  Damned near double gagged, he jsut wiped it off and dismissed me.

CSA's picture

You are a walking contradiction.  You want and need something, that's why you posted the diatribe.  You want acceptance by a group (military), you want respect from everyone else (thus your long post) and you need validation that what you're doing in life makes a difference.

Life isn't a movie and we've all suffered.  Your few weeks is no better or worse than anyone else's times of trial.  The point to the article is... coming from one of our now dead brothers who suffered more than your bad knee experience, this game is nonsense and those who perpetrated it should be held accountable.  



LikeyMikey's picture

@CSA - Well said....  :)

samcontrol's picture

After 9/11 you can take your traditions and burn them.

Sometimes you got to switch sides buddy.
I was fan number one but now..
I would not take a green card with a free million dollar house bonus and live in the USA.

How many can say the same?

CSA's picture

I like what you say.  Where can I fly to experience this Utopia?  

nmewn's picture

I thought he was pretty clear...maybe you missed it:

"I took the oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies, Foreign and Domestic...and have never been relieved of that oath."

The intent of the oath is clear and it has nothing to do with defending the enemies of the Constitution and the BoR's, foreign or domestic.

Agstacker's picture

Your story reminded my of a moment I had in Camp Pendleton, the day before our 15 mile hike.  We were getting our shots and as I went in there was a doctor and female orderly who had never given shots before.  They had me bend over and pull my cammies down to present my ass cheek.  I heard her ask the doctor, "Is this were it goes?" and not even a second later she sunk the needle to the hilt in my ass cheek.  The doctor says, "Yes, but give him a bit of warning next time".  


Needless to say the hike was somewhat uncomfortable.


Uncle Sam's been sticking it to me ever since...

LikeyMikey's picture



You thought that was a NEEDLE????  


Withdrawn Sanction's picture

"But let's be honest and say that everyone knows by now what the truth is when you sign on."

I hear what you're saying, but doubt very much that 18-22 year olds really "know" in a meaningful sense what they're getting into when they sign on.  Examine your own history.  When did you finally wake up to the hypocrisy and lies?  And even one who is familiar with history and may even understand in an abstract sense what governments do when they go to war, still does not (yet) have the first hand experience of combat to confirm such abstractions.  

tocointhephrase's picture

A dear friend of mine who is no longer alive, a man who had unquestionable faith in Jesus once pointed out to me that hell is not hot, its cold, colder than any place on earth. George and Dicky boy......may you freeze for eternity. Your wickedness is beyond comprehension, the pain and suffering you have caused is pure evil. Your day of judgement will be swift, beyond all reasonable doubt, you will not be spared. You will never be welcome anywhere. May you be condemned to isolation where you find no solace.

BringOnTheAsteroid's picture

Ah, the irony of your post. The oligarchs created the religion and faith you call christianity to render you fearful of the great invisible grey bearded skyman while they know damn well there is nothing beyond death. So they rape and pillage while all the good little serfs keep telling the stories the oilgarchs scripted for them in the first place. Part of the con is keeping christians content that although the oligarchs may get away with it in this life, god will fix things in the afterlife.

You have been conned, will continue to be conned while the oligarchs laugh all the way to the grave. And remember good liitle serf, "THOU SHALL NOT KILL", especially any oligarchs who destroy the world in which we live. And remember good little serf, "LOVE YOUR ENEMY", especially the oligarchs who craft the laws that benefit them.

Keep taking the blue pill buddy, keep following your phantom god according to the script layed out by the ghosts of the current oligarchs. What's more, keep defending the script layed out by the ghosts of the current oligarchs. Defend with allk your might the institutions set up to control you.

If it wasn't so sickening it'd be funny.

tocointhephrase's picture

I guess you are ready to meet your maker. 

BringOnTheAsteroid's picture

You are scared mate, just like the oligarchs and ruling elite have wanted since the beginning of fucking time. 

It will require a terrible psychological upheaval but you are capable of breaking out of your decades of subvervience to the systems put in place to control you.

Do you have the guts to face it though?

TeamDepends's picture

Perhaps it is YOU who have been conned. You claim the oligarchs "know damn well there is nothing beyond death". Where is the evidence for this? This ungodly NWO plan we see unfolding has been centuries in the making, so their elders live on through their progeny. This is far from nothing. Did not junk you, but if you respond be prepared for a smackdown as you had to go and use dismissive, smarter-than-thou language so typical of atheists.

Billy the Poet's picture


smarter-than-thou language so typical of atheists.


As a generally well behaved atheist with lots of christian friends I object to that characterization. I haven't equated your beliefs with those of the Westboro Baptist Church, for example, and I'd appreciate similar courtesy in return.

BringOnTheAsteroid's picture

"Perhaps it is YOU who have been conned".

You have to be kidding me. I'm not the one who thinks there's a great invisible grey beared skyMAN listening to my thoughts and talking to me inside my head. I'm not the one who believes that the bible somehow represents a dialogue that REALLY took place even though it was begun to be written some three generations after your jesus was crucified. The bible is stories, absolutely fabricated as a book of fiction because there was NO WAY TO RECORD THE EVENTS OF THE BIBLE AS THEY HAPPENED. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS ????????? There were no dictaphones, no one following the characters around with a pen and pad. How could the complex dialogue and interactions be remebered some 70 years after the event in any form that remotely represented reality. This is precisiely why there are so many stupid and infantile stories like noah's ark. Animals lined up by two's but what about the fucking plants and trees and bushes and shrubs and flowers. For fuck's sake a child could see the ridiculous holes in that story. (Watch it, even second of it).

"smarter-than-thou language so typical of atheists"

Christians have been condemning non believers to an eternal life of torture for centuries and you have the gumption to be offended by someone stating, in the normal course of civilised debate, that there is no after-life.

You people have been hen pecked into submission, scared, absolutely terrified to utter anything that denegrates something for which  there is not a shred of evidence. You are too far gone to realise how corrosive this mindset is to a free thinking conscious entity.



WillyGroper's picture

+100 smarter-than-thou language so typical of atheists.

I know 2 of them. Both on antidepressants, both in crisis.

sumpin ain't workin.

BringOnTheAsteroid's picture

Someone has to break it to you that you've been had. No one in your immediate vicinity will because they've most likely all been had as well. It's expected one would receive violent verbal retorts as you have to adjust to the horrible reality that you've been fucked over and fallen for it. It's never too late to break free of the institutions set up to control you. Control how you marry, control how you have sex, control what you think, control what you do in your free time.


Break free of it and you'll experience a wonder and sense of awe that you have misplaced in the non-existent.

Blue Boat's picture

Keep Bringing it On, Asteroid.  This place fancies itself so enlightened and open-minded, but not so much.


What never ceases to amaze is that religious 'believers' so often lash out at other points of view; it not being obvious to them that they clearly aren't very secure in their 'beliefs' to be so easily threatened.


Oh and, yes, it is defintely about control...and power....and obedience. And in those aspects most organized religions seems to succeed quite well.

Againstthelie's picture

No they will not burn in hell. That's the illusion of the perfect slave.

The only chance that they will burn, is if they are burnt on earth...

And thanks to "democracy", where the most dumb ones have the same voice as the few capable people to be leaders, they will never be held responsible. Democracy is their shield.

armageddon addahere's picture

So what? They got what they wanted didn't they? They got away with it didn't they? Someone else is paying for their lies aren't they?

So their bullshit stories fell apart. So what? They weren't meant to last. They weren't even that convincing to begin with. They didn't have to be. They worked, didn't they?

Wait till next week, you will see new bullshit stories that are just as flimsy being used to sell some new scam.

" Ain't we got all the fools in town on our side? And ain't that a big enough majority in any town?"

                                  -Mark Twain

AlaricBalth's picture

John Stuart Mill in 1867 said, "Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing."

Speaking only for myself, after reading that letter, I am ashamed to admit that I was one who did nothing as events were unfolding leading up to the Iraq war. Even then, the lies of our leaders were obvious, and yet I sat idly by as good people were sent to fight an unnecessary war. I believe that there is a place in hell, not for what some people did during their lives, but what they failed to do. I can only hope, moving forward, there is a chance for redemption.

Billy the Poet's picture

I protested which of course did no good at all. Petitioning the government for redress of wrongs is like petitioning a coyote to keep away from the henhouse.

LetThemEatRand's picture

According to your post below, you protested by hanging a "honk if you like peace" sign from your frat house during your 9th or 10th year of college (your words, not mine).  I wonder why that didn't work?

Billy the Poet's picture

My house mate Betsy and I started a group called American Dreamers. We organized two trips to protests in DC and various campus activities. I made some speeches and was quoted several times in the college paper. What did you do?

LetThemEatRand's picture

While you and your housemate were making banners, I was working for a living.  I went to college and then graduate school.  College in 4, graduate school in 3.  Less time than you spent in college.  And I'm around the same age as you.  I'm 47.  How old are you?

What started our pissing match below was you changing the subject from this article, suggesting that the answer is no government at all (based upon your premise as explained in one of the posts below that the Rotschild family would magically disappear if we had no government in the U.S.), and making an Ayn Rand reference:  "In the meantime those of us who refuse initiate violence against others will simply keep on going Galt."

 How's that Ayn Rand thing working out for you?  

Billy the Poet's picture

I'm 51. I am not perfect and neither was Ayn Rand.

LetThemEatRand's picture

I'll give you this.  You're the first guy I've ever run into who first read and embraced Rand in his 40's (per your post below).  Most Rand believers start in their teens or early twenties and then figure out the horeshit by their 30's.  Then again, it took you 10 years to finish college (per your other post below), so it kind of makes sense.

Billy the Poet's picture



10 years to finish college


Well I did take a few years off for cohabitation and a dead end job. When I went back to school I was much more focused. It's nice that you take such an interest in me personally. Now, why don't you tell us something about yourself?, he asked politely.

LetThemEatRand's picture

What do you want, my social security number?  See my post above and my posts here for the last 3.5 years.

You said below that you went to college on the 10 year plan.  Now you're backtracking.   But what does it matter.  I'm arguing with an ideologue whose ideas are set in stone.  The fact that you believe the Rothschilds would magically go away if we ended government in the U.S. says it all.  Good luck and good night.

Billy the Poet's picture


You said you went to college on the 10 year plan.  Now you're backtracking.


I started in 1981, continued on and off until finishing in 1991. If you think that's backtracking you need remedial math lessons. Some of us had to work for tution, you see, and then there's that youthful desire to stop reading about life and actually live it. I made a lot of mistakes but in the end I think that I became a better person. And, by the way, you're off topic again.

LetThemEatRand's picture

"I remember the start of Gulf War I. A Bush came on TV that night too. Bernard Shaw(?) was reporting live from Baghdad by holding a phone out of the hotel window so that the audience could hear the explosions. I was in my last year of college (on the ten year plan). My housemates and I posted a sign out front with a peace sign and the word "Honk." Folks were honking every few minutes until the next day when the cops came and took the sign down while we were at class."

-Billy the Poet, below.

Billy the Poet's picture

When I subtract 1981 from 1991 I get ten. What do you get?

CSA's picture

Imperfect people making decisions for imperfect people and everyone thinks their ideas are perfect if only they did "this" or only if they would do "that".  A country run by Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, etc. will fail.  Democracy, Republics, and Dictatorships will all fail.  Such is the cycle.  Embrace the suck and enjoy the ride for it soon ends and eternity begins.

OW My Balls's picture

7 years of college down the drain!


Nice to see your last 3 years were devoted to study about how the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

angel_of_joy's picture

Ayn Rand is working great, actually. We can see America going Galt as we speak. In due time, Atlas will shrug here too... but you won't "get it".

LetThemEatRand's picture

Funny thing is, this cluster fuck oligarch controlled wasteland where a few hundred people control more wealth than 50% of the country, is pretty much what Rand had in mind, so I'm tempted to agree with you.

Billy the Poet's picture

When you finally decide to read Atlas Shrugged you'll discover that the villains were crony capitalists.

LetThemEatRand's picture

Just once I want one of you guys to actually defend her views rather than telling me I didn't read it.  I read it. It's fucking fiction and Alan Greenspan proves it.

Billy the Poet's picture

In the three and a half years you've been a member many people have tried to explain her views to you. But you continue to misrepresent her real opinions at every turn.

The villains in Atlas Shrugged are crony capitalists. Since you disagree with her please explain why you support crony capitalism.

TeethVillage88s's picture

Seems a good point to discuss. Even mandatory Issue for investigation.

sun tzu's picture

Don't bother. He still refuses to accept that the bailouts were for Wall Street and not the working people