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Ukraine Bank Runs Begin As Poroshenko Plans To Sever Socio-Economic Ties With Separatist-Held Regions
In what the pro-Russian separatists call "an act of genocide," Ukraine's President Poroshenko signed a decree Friday that will explicitly withdraw state support for the regions within a month. While appearing to implicitly recognize the regions of Donetsk and Luhansk as autonomous, the decree means that the central bank will no longer service bank accounts, prisoners will be transferred (inmates with minor offences will be released), and perhaps most troubling as the cold winter begins, the order covers all public services, including crucial ones, such as schools, hospitals, and emergency services; and local heating and power plants will be subject to new laws that could involve cutting energy supplies altogether to the plants that don’t pay. Luhansk's leader exclaimed, "the total socio-economic blockade of Donbass is de facto an act on genocide and devastation of our people," and as the images below show, bank runs have already begun across the region with long lines forming at ATMs.
Ukraine's president has ordered the withdrawal of all state services, including funding for hospitals and schools, from rebel-held areas.
Petro Poroshenko issued a decree that also asks parliament to revoke a law granting self-rule to the Donetsk and Luhansk regions.
* * *
Kiev has suspended the protection of human rights and ordered the withdrawal of its institutions from areas controlled by local militia in the nation's east. Rebels have branded the decree, which hits the population on winter’s eve, an ‘act of genocide.'
The move was prepared by the Ukrainian National Security and Defense Council last week and enacted by a presidential decree signed on Friday. It has yet to be ratified by the newly-elected parliament, but the decree explicitly says that this procedure must be expedited – so there is little doubt that the new governing coalition will adopt it next week.
Arguably the most controversial part of the decree is the suspension of the European Convention on Human Rights in rebel-held areas. The convention, which guarantees basic human rights and fundamental freedoms in Europe, has a provision which allows some of its articles to be derogated by a signatory “in time of war or other public emergency threatening the life of the nation.”
Kiev has been insisting that the military campaign it launched against the dissenting provinces is not a war, but an “anti-terrorist operation.” Apparently the operation threatens the life of Ukraine, which will now observe only those provisions of the convention, which cannot be derogated under any circumstances. In particular, they are the right to life, the prohibition of torture and slavery, and the right not to be subjected to unlawful punishment.
In practical terms, the decree orders that many social and economic ties with the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics be severed. Kiev will withdraw all its officials and evacuate its offices in rebel-held areas. The order covers all public services, including crucial ones, such as schools, hospitals, and emergency services.
...
Local heating and power plants will be subjected to a “special procedure for accounting supplies of fuel” to ensure that their debt will not grow. This potentially could involve cutting supplies altogether to the plants that don’t pay.
“Poroshenko’s decree on the total socio-economic blockade of Donbass is de facto an act on genocide and devastation of our people,” Igor Plotnitskiy, leader of the Lugansk People’s Republic, said.
* * *
Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko has ordered a halt in serving bank accounts of enterprises and residents in southeastern Ukraine within a month, said a decree published on the president's official website Saturday.
"National bank of Ukraine [shall] adopt measures within one month to stop serving bank accounts, including card accounts, that belong to economic entities… and residents in the territories of anti-terror operation in Donetsk and Luhansk regions," the decree said.
...
The Ukrainian central bank has been ordered to stop servicing all banks operating in the rebel-held areas. The accounts of individuals living there and companies located there have been frozen. This will stifle the local economy, as businesses will have to conduct transactions in cash or use a bartering system.
At the same time, the rules of taxation and budget transfers between Kiev and local governments in the Donetsk and Lugansk regions will be altered under the decree.
* * *
As AFP reports, the bank runs have begun...
People line up to withdraw money from the cash machine at a bank in the eastern city of Donetsk.
The Ukrainian president plans to shut state offices and banks in the region.
* * *
What is perhaps even more surprising is that following plans by authorities of self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic plan to open new banks tomorrow to replace the existing branches of one of Ukrainian lenders, Poroshenko has stomped on that idea too..
- Ukraine Denounces as Illegal Plan by Insurgents to Set Up Bank
Almost seems like someone is spoliing for a fight again and is annoyed at the lack of headlines (and cash) his country is getting since the ceasefire began.
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No worries, Stephen Harper will handle this.
The age of peer to peer currencies begins.
your move , Mr Putin . . .
Yep. Looks like a ploy to force Putin to de facto annex the region to provide services. Kiev will have a hard time getting it back without major contributions from the West (US).
A brilliant ploy to get everyone involved. Escalation.
Perhaps there are plans for the Ukraine:
http://www.storyleak.com/putin-defies-the-west-leads-brics-alliance-away-from-nwo-reservation/
"Victoria Nuland could not be reached for comment."
Perhaps if they search "Mrs Kagan" they might find her.
I thought the eastern areas wanted to be independent?
Reminds me of how quickly the Quebec indepenence movement died once the rest of Canada told them that if they left there would be no more transfer of tax money from the western provinces to the welfare state of Quebec.
This is a yet another tactic, ie Malaysian Airliner, to coax Putin into the invasion pretext the West so desperately wants.
Winter is coming.
Great idea.
Let's do the same to DC and New Yawk.
No taxes sounds good
Sounds like the IMF, Europe and the USSA no longer want to subsidize the Ukraine via non repayable loans, ie throwing good money after bad. The Ukie external debt is well over 120 billion, payable in USD, owed by borrowers who earn money in Hrynia's, devalued over 60% in the last year. In other words, for borrowers of USD, their costs of servicing loans increased by 60% while the economy continues to collapse, down 10% in one year.
The Ukraine is bankrupt, period. Most pensioners and professionals working for the government (ie teachers) have not been paid since May 2014. Kiev is merely confirming the obvious, that they are out of funds, having wasted billions via military defeat. Look at charts of the Hryvnia, and CDS , and note that the Ukies are priced for a 60% default in 5 years. This is why the sack of garbage Soros was begging Europe to give the criminal ukies 20 Billion via a Marshall plan, in other worlds, to bail out his oligarchic ass.
Moreover, the government leaders are so corrupt that they steal every penny after the IMF and oligarchs have taken their cut. Thank you USSA, for fucking up another country.
Absolutely agree with you here I think zh has blown this way out of proportion....the people are getting what they wanted and look on the bright side nobody has to pay any debts to those banks... if all goes well they will be using the ruble in no time.
Novorossiya will not inherit their portion of the 120 billion+ in external debt owed by the Ukraine, or get IMF'ed. Their governments are debt free. They have not sent money to Kiev for months, and have received none.
The novorossiyans are already using Rubles and local scrip, and have nationalized most of assets controlled by the Ukie Oligarchs. They are, in effect, starting out with a pristine balance sheet, hence the reason why the USSA is so pissed. America always wants its cut via the IMF, etc, but Putin and friends have spit in the USSA's face.
Bitcoin, bitchez!
The difference in this instance is that the Donbass region has been subsidizing the rest of Ukraine for many years now. The problem though is that it is half destroyed at the moment due to the brutal war fought there. This is a move designed to force Russia to annex the regions in some form or another.
You are correct that the Donbass has subsidized the rest of the Ukraine but I disagree that this is a move to force Russia to annex novorossiya. The Ukrainian government is broke, full stop. They are merely declaring victory and retreating, as per the advice of their washington masters.
You know what's funny? Stalin left Ukraine to rot in hunger when they sought independence. Now Poroshenko pulls a similar move, yet Putin is the one being called "Stalin Jr.", go figure...
http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/stalin.htm
famine, what famine,according to the famous New York Times correspondent, Walter Duranty who reported from Moscow in the 1930s
The case for the fabricated Holodomor (176 pages):
http://www.rationalrevolution.net/special/library/tottlefraud.pdf
Let them eat cookies.
Donbass is not Canadians
She was too busy setting puppies alight as sport to comment.
No reason for Russia not to move troops and supplies in to help the abandoned people and region.
Poroshenko has given implicit permission for anyone to do so and released claim of any sovereignty.
Other than the "radical escalation" paint the MSM will throw on it.
Nope, better to let them all freeze/starve, then sort it out at the Hague in five or six years.
The Hague is unlikely without a nuclear war, and if we have a nuclear war there is not much need for the Hague.
Russia needs to accept that this will be a fight to the death, them or the NWO. China too must accept being a slave and farm to the west or its curtains for them as well.
If you dont have the will to end all life on this planet then you dont have the will to rule it. Just accept your situation and get your shoe box.
"If you dont have the will to end all life on this planet then you dont have the will to rule it."
That, my man, is about as dark of a comment I have ever read here. Well done.
After the parade of undiplomatic jackasses down under, the prospects for peace don't good. Putin's best play would be kill a large number of Europeans very quickly and let them sue for a peace dictated on his terms.
Postponing the inevitable will only increase the death toll.
Why should he do something the USSA and Red shields have done for the past few centuries.
Because he no longer has the population base to expend on protracted and conventional war, and the longer he postpones the inevitable the more his economic war chest is depleted or neutralized while he becomes more indebted to the Chinese.
he who ends up with the gold wins.
After the parade of undiplomatic jackasses down under, the prospects for peace don't good. Putin's best play would be kill a large number of Europeans very quickly and let them sue for a peace dictated on his terms.
The Japanese tried that. Didn't work out to well for them. Besides, Putin's smarter than that.
It has nothing to do with being smart. Everyone has the same playbooks and laws of mathematics.
The Japanese are a horrible analogy as they knew Pearl Harbor was their only shot against US (almost-state) territory, and wide scale destruction of US mainland industrial capacity was outside of the realm of possibility.
In hindsite attacking Pearl Harbor was the worst thing Japan could have done. They could have left the US alone and continued on the path they were on, plus take over the Dutch oil fields to combat the oil embargo, and let the US attack them if the isolationist US population would let them. There were still a lot of battleship Admirals back then and they considered aircraft carriers and submarines scouting and support vessels. The basic plan for an attack on Japan was to saddle up and take the war to the heart of Japan. A battle the US would have lost as the US strategy sucked, the Japanese had a larger and more modern fleet, and plenty of experienced people while the US had none. It could be said that Pearl Harbor was a victory for the US as even the most staunch isolationists supported the war effort and the US was forced into using aircraft carriers and submarines, the future of warfare, as the main offensive weapons with the battleships mainly relegated to support duties.
Repugnant
War is repugnant. But an extend and pretend fantasy simply increases the cost of mean reversion. The game theory models the "West" is relying on are self evident, as is the solution that preserves the most life.
I am not sure I really understand what you write. I have noticed you are as brilliant as Ghordius, but with a mean streak.
Europe will have to find ways to get nearer to Russia and the Russians. The biggest obstacle in this regard is the USA imho. It is, objectively considering state interests according to realist principles, NOT in the interest of the USA to ever see a close bond developing between Russia and Europe. And then there is also religion and history complicating the whole picture.
I know you are an expat ( presumably American ) living in Switzerland, but I do not really understand your perspective. You are rooting for war between Europe and Russia precisely for the reasons I outlined above ?
EU trolls are far from brilliant
I wouldn 't know
I am not sure whether it is the US or the UK that is actually the largest obstacle, because the UK is also a member of the EU, and it is both NATO and the EU that are being manipulated by both the US & UK in the current round of the Great Game. To expand upon what I wrote further below, as soon the English got their hooks back into the American establishment after the War of 1812, they shifted their foreign policy focus to driving a wedge between Russia and "the Continent" through the first and second Anglo-Afghan Wars and the Crimean War, to their financing of the Bolshevik Revolution overthrow the Czar.
When the torch of hegemony and reserve currency status passed from the UK to US after the Second World War so did the perspective that any alliance between the USSR/Russia and Europe must be avoided at all costs (via various strategies of divide and conquer), hence Operation Gladio. The analogies comparing Putin to the restoration of the Imperial Russian Monarchy, both in Russian and Western media aren't simply coincidental, they are a dog whistle to the members of various foreign policy establishments.
With 200 years of history as precedent it is apparent that "NATO" will not stop both encroachment and internal interference in Russia until one of three things happens
1) Russia surrenders to all US/UK demands
2) there is forced regime change in Russia and an Anglo-American puppet is installed in Moscow
3) Russia bytes the bait in the obvious trap that is being laid, but also simultaneously escalates the situation such that it drives a wedge between the Continent and the US/UK and makes clear to all parties that there are only two options War (on the continent of Europe, again), or Peace.
Peace is always a compromise between parties at conflict. When there is no compromise, it is called conquest. This very simple truth seems to be almost always neglected by MSM outlets worldwide when prognosticating about conflicts, albeit for rather obvious reasons.
What has become apparent by the actions of the Commonwealth Heads of Government in Australia this week and the move to suspend the European Convention on Human Rights (only weeks after the Ukrainians last agreed to be bound by it) is that 1) there will be no compromise until there is a fundamental change in the political calculus, and 2) the Human Rights (and lives) of anyone standing between the US/UK and its objectives in Europe can (and will) be sacrificed to achieve those objectives.
So, NO. I am not rooting for war (particularly since Germany is less than 10km from my front door and any war would likely destroy my business), but looking beyond my self-interest - I don't see any realistic alternative. The only question is whether it is sooner/faster/less costly or later/slower/more costly - given the proclivity of NATO (and the US MIC) in the Third Anglo-Afghan War (still ongoing), they would appear to prefer a later, longer, bloodier and more expensive war.
I may however, be turning into an even more cynical bastard as I get old and tired watching the same nationalist/imperialist shit play out time and time again on every continent I have live or work in.
Urban Redneck, I find your posts highly informative. I do believe, however, you are missing out on a very important element, that the Ukraine is controlled by a very small group of oligarchs, aka mafia style bosses.
The State Department convinced most of them that they would earn more profit by working with america and against Russia, and laid out plans to exploit black sea oil and gas resources, replace russian gas with Ukie and ME gas, via whitestream pipeline. Moreover, the oligarchs were expecting an economic boom in the Crimea, once NATO seized sevastopol.
Putin put paid to those plans by re claiming the Crimea. This was a major strategic blow to the Empires plans, as Russia now controls the black sea plus hundreds of billions in offshore resources. Moreover, riding a wave of Russian patriotism, Putin has managed to crush the US NGO's, and marginalize most of his westward looking oppostion. There will be no color revolution in Russia.
(Sometimes I wonder if Putin allowed the Ukies to overthrow Yanukovich. I find it very hard to believe that Russia was unaware of the US/EU NGO's plans to overthrow Yanukovich, and Russia could have pushed him to crush the maidan. Further Russia's utterly brilliant plans for reclaiming of the Crimea without any overt fighting or loss of life will be a case study for all future international relations graduate programes. Over the longer run, say 5 years, Russia will benefit tremendously by the return of the Crimea to her fold)
The donbass is of secondary importance because of coal and nat gas, and is the main locus for pipelines from Russia to Europe. Without the Crimea and Donbass, the oligarchs have lost the best parts of the Ukraine and have taken heavy losses. Unless America makes good on their losses, they will not stay bought for long.
Don't be surprised if this time next year, the Ukie oligarchs are sitting on the same side of the table as Putin. Deals will be cut, the oligarchs will eject the americans, and the Ukies will get screwed again.
Thanks, I respect that there is a strategy by which Putin can win, in Ukraine, by being patient, and there are certain strategic benefits which offset some of the economic costs to escalating slower in regards to on-shoring Russian capital and replacing imports (which makes EU sanctions designed to promote "peace" all the more ironic, since they more promote escalation of trade war to shooting war, to paraphrase Celente), but I question whether "victory" in Ukraine will actually change the big picture, since with all due respect to Eliot, hegemons die with a bang, and only if they have fallen far enough and are too impotent in their dying days is it perceived as a wimper (and I certainly wouldn't regard relatively ancient nuclear weapons, even beyond the end of their rated service life- as impotent).
John McCain and his fellow Klansmen may have lost their stooge in Georgia, but they replaced him with Porky Pig in Kiev. So why wouldn't McInsane prove Einstein correct with another Rinse, Repeat? The current NATO push for MAOR BASES in eastern Europe creates more pressure points on the Russia's western front, and the US's little gray men in Azerbaijan were starting fires that Putin had to personally put out on his southern front just a few months ago. If the EU starts courting (or destabilizing) NATO member Turkey again in an effort to reverse its progression towards SCO it could open another front. The never-ending US presence in AfPak (30+ years by my count and 20+ years by experience) creates all sorts of ugly possibilities either by stoking the British created India-Pakistan mess or creating a new Al-CIAda for a Rinse, Repeat of the Chechnya play book in the northern 'stans.
Being slightly less simultaneously oblique and hyperbolic than usual, there are also strategically superior responses for Russia than a low yield explosion over the Aldwych (roughly the midpoint between Buckingham Palace and The City's Guildhall) even though that approach might yield the best outcome for humanity (beyond just Russia). Escalation via proxy is the safe play as well as the tried and true method in the nuclear age. Putin could play the Eric Holder Fast and Furious card with the cartels in Mexico, although possibly the strongest play would be to use the Iranians to blow the Qatari facilities at Ras Laffan, which would alleviate some pressure on Assad, and send Gazprom through the roof by eliminating the potential competition and increasing European energy dependence (which might make the Europeans slightly less hyperbolic in their Russian dialouge). Furthermore, there is scuttlebutt, that if substantiated-- could be used to justify Iranian action against Qatar, which would at least provide a fig leaf for Putin. But it's a huge world chessboard, and there are others (with entire and multiple government Ministries at their disposal) that have a much more detailed and complete view of the pieces than I do.
Quatar idea you told would leave Russia and Iran in total domination of world nat gas reserves.
Basically near now, as Quatar is a third place...
after that fourth is far lower
Agreed, Urban Redneck. The Ukraine may be a significant player in the war against Russia, but it is by no means the primary method of attack. On the macro level, I must sadly agree that the US empire will not likely die with a whimper, but with a bang, possibilly taking down billions of lives with her. I would like to add more but I also have a life outside of ZH. Thank you for your most illuminating posts.
"...With 200 years of history as precedent it is apparent that "NATO" will not stop both encroachment and internal interference in Russia until one of three things happens
1) Russia surrenders to all US/UK demands
2) there is forced regime change in Russia and an Anglo-American puppet is installed in Moscow
3) Russia bytes the bait in the obvious trap..."
You forgot the fourth possibility, Urban Redneck:
Pitchforks and torches in Washington D.C., woodchipper politician and banker lustration and the eventual restoration of the U.S. Constitution. That would put an end to all U.S. bear-baiting in Europe and Asia, end Israel's bullying of the entire Middle East and pull the rug from under that psychopath Erdogan. Former NATO countries would have to grow a spine and act in their own citizen's best interests.
I admit... number four is kind of a long-shot, but one can always dream.
Thanks a lot for your elaborate reply. Very interesting.
"...Looks like a ploy to force Putin to de facto annex the region to provide services..."
Putin never did want to annex the Donbass. He does not want to annex the Donbass NOW.
Jewish-Ukrainian oligarchs are just doing what Jewish-Ukrainian oligarchs do: confiscate little people's money through sanctions until the suffering becomes so great that those little people give up and obey them.
Now I'll wait to hear Israel and the global Jewish community screaming about the Jewish ethnic cleansing going on in Eastern Ukraine. It's mostly Christian Orthodox, but everyone knows there's a lot of Russian-speaking Jewish-Ukrainian communities in the Donbass, right? Ukrainian Jews. Russian Jews. They are being denied their pensions, their life savings are being confiscated by the banks (closing) and their families are being starved out by the oligarchs, and no damn heat this winter.
This should be all over the Jewish-controlled MSM 24x7 in the US. Why isn't this mini-holocaust being covered by the MSM? Where the fuck is Wolf Blitzer? Why haven't they strapped Barbara Walters ass on a Tomahawk and sent her over there? Where the fuck is dual-citizen Nuland? Isn't she responsible for the crimes against humanity of the suffering Donbass Jews? The ICC knows what's going on. So when is her court date in the Hauge?
Oh yeah - some Jews are more equal than others. The ones living in the Donbass are garbage to the oligarchs. Welcome to the little people club. If you don't have oil, gold or PR value, then you're a useless eater just like everyone else.
This is a tragedy for everyone in Ukraine and especially the Donbass. I only bring up the Jewish angle as a perfect illustration for how the 'Jew as victim' stories are ONLY headlines when Israel or some oligarch is going to lose a few shekels. It is rarely brought up when useless, little-people Jews (like those in the Donbass) are being shelled or starving to death.
I agree that Putin never wanted to annex the Donbass. In fact, despite western MSM lies, Russia does not want or need the Ukraine. The country is in such a mess that were Russia to absorb the Ukraine, their growth would be set back for decades. Think East Germany before it became re united with West Germany, and you get the idea.
On a separate note, while I have experienced the tribal attitudes of jews towards goy in general, I have also seen jews fucking over other jews. For that matter, I have seen goy fucking goys, americans fucking over other americans....etc etc ad nauseaum.
On the bright side, yer avatar has some nice boobs!
Gracias. They are more effective than a .45 for robbing men of their money. Also, unlike shooting through a target or riccohets, collateral damage is limited to angry ex wifes and girlfriends.
thanks paveway. lights are on and somebody is home.
Run Rabbit, Run.
Harper and Baird will wear this forever. Poroshenko is their guy, their little nazi in Kiev.
you know beheading in Iraq is bad, no pip about ukrain at all
Blame Canada...
...for their exceptionalism ;-)
"Blame Canada..." for having so many post-WW2 Ukrainians who fled Russian and local reprisal, for having been Nazi collaborators.
80% of Canadian Ukes are from this era, and live in Ontario and westward. I've met enough of them in the 70s, 80s and 90s to know. Harper is relying on their votes for the Tory party (officially the Progressive Conservative Party - the PCs).
Some of my family is of those Ukrainians. Not all of us are brainwashed idiots.
But you are correct, a lot (most) are simply the nazi collaberators who fled.
....Ukrainians who fled Russian and local reprisal, for having been Nazi collaborators.
As always, Ukrainian borders and allegiances are complicated. In fairness to the Russophobe Ukies, the far west of Ukraine had never been ruled by Moscow until 1945; these folks had absolutely no allegiance to Russia, and were basically turned over to the Red Army for no good reason, other than feeding Joe Stalin's appetitie for European real estate.
It's likely that if the Lvov region had been left to Poland, the remaining Ukraine would have remained essentially Russian in character, and not gone on to develop into the schizophrenic Ukrainian semi-nation that is currently in the process of falling apart.
The Nobel Prize Winner has CIA agents, FBI agents and Blackwater mercenaries in the Ukraine. So things can only get hotter. More war and death and destruction comes Ukraine's way. No doubt, all the Western media will blame Putin.
I see it more like they have (read: own) Obummer.
The nobel prize winner may have all kinds of USSA special forces in the Ukraine, but so what? Given the USSA's past track record of direct interventions like Iraq and Afgan., the Russians have little to worry about.
Don't you think gulf wars have played out exactly like they planned it, or even better - more expensive?
They always win.
sure glad i live in Donetsk and have some gold stashed.
Kiev is lame. The biggest tax base is in the east as well as industry and energy supplies. They are cutting off their own necks. They need to get out of the rest of Donbass. If not they will be thrown out.
Cosmos, the Kiev fascists have already been thrown out. All they can do now is follow american doctrine and kill innocent civilians.
What better way to push Eastern Ukraine into the Arms of Russia!
Not taking sides, but can't say I blame Kiev. If a third of the US was calling for succession, actively fighting/engaging the forces of the remaining 2/3rds, why should the funds of the 2/3rds be used to support the 1/3rd? You want out? You lose all the subsidies.
ssubsidies? bank accounts. pensions. don't belong to the state. don't belong to the 2/3. does your bank acount and pension?
as for this particular sitatuion, the successionist areas produce the wealth on which the rump state portion lives - as in subsidies.
Your bank account belongs to the bank. If it's a state bank then your bank account belongs to the state.
Message for DPR . Jump in your tanks and go kick "FUCKING" ass in Kiev.
hop before jump
This move opens the door for Putin to move in and "relieve the suffering"caused.
Eastern Ukraine is now defacto part of Russia.
Which country/region is next ????
California. Obviously.
hmmm. Nations Bank headquartered in Red-state-land bought Calif's biggest bank in 1998 with immanent passage of G-L-B/repeal of Glass-Steagall. Calif has improvised since then. The rise of the mortgage shadow-banking system (Countrywide etc in Pasadena and Irvine) with securitzation routed through GS et al propped up the SoCAL economy for a while, but metasticized. No grown-ups in the room. Non-Hollywood still limping.
Northern CAL has transferred the economic oversight to the VC's and Stanford Law. It works pretty well, for a slice of the economy, but things are out of whack due to clear mismanagement of housing & transport. Still, we are in better shape than the parts of the country under Wall Street's thumb.
Could Red-state-land do something similar to Calif since the state is now isolated politically, with only a BHO and Joe in our corner in WashDC?
This Ukrainian decision is jaw-dropping. Collapse the money supply in a region as an act of civil war.
It's a magical war.....always the fucking dollar...
Just Ukraine exposing their true selves to the world. Uncertainty in deciding which accounts to stop honoring will drain money out of all Ukrainian banks - not exactly confidence building for the banks that remain in Kiev. And I wonder who will be collecting taxes from Eastern Ukraine?
Best of ALL - Eastern Ukraine gets out of the need to repay ANY part of the national debt! Western Ukraine (and the US taxpayer) get all of the Ukrainian debt!
"Best of ALL - Eastern Ukraine gets out of the need to repay ANY part of the national debt! "
After the west steals all the east bank accounts they won't have any money to pay taxes.
You are correct in the long run though...
Most of the bank accounts were emptied long ago, after the currency controls were implemented. The real losers are the pensioners, who paid into a plan and are now getting screwed by the Kiev government.
money was already draining
most didn't trust bank anyway
especially the Oligarch owned
only ignorant had money in those banks
I was previously unaware that the right to self govern was a right bestowed upon the people by Government. Good to know........
Maybe the people's republic of donestk and lugansk could pursue the ISIS trackvof setting up a new currency of gold, silver and copper. I find this NYT article humorous due to the fact that they have the same people arguing against a gold standard in developed countries also speaking out against the sound money policies of a quasi state. Maybe the one area that I am cheering ISIS on. I am sure that puts me on some watchlist.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/11/15/world/middleeast/islamic-state-says...
Nah, too soon for that.But it could be on the way.
They'll probably start using the ruble. Ruble-ization also provides a channel for covert subsidy by Russia, say, by providing cash machines. Everyone in Donetsk/Lugansk opens a bank account in Russia and settles their bills with each other that way, withdrawing cash from the machine when needed. All overhead paid for by Russia (no bank charges, good interest rates on savings).
Also creates a small extra demand for rubles, helping to boost the currency.
Good observation. I'll bet that this process is already in place.
More civil war agitating 'American Exceptionalism' hard at work!
Every article regarding this criminal should start with, the Israeli-oligarch Poroshenko.....
Keeps everything in perspective.
By doing that, Kiev is de facto proclaiming Novorossiya is another country, and not part of Ukraine anymore.
Maybe Barry shit himself when Russian navy turned up Brisbaine cioast and signed over East Ukraine to Putin.
Basically, the Zionist west is laying a trap for Putin, by cutting off and increasing the misery of the eastern Ukraine. They hope to have Russia come in to assist and also recognize most eastern Ukrainians' desire for unification with Russia.
The Zionists, their pol and crat puppets, along with their complicit-media tools, will then spin and lie the sheeple of the west into war frenzy.
Going to be interesting to watch Putin's next moves. If I were him, I would publicly and forcefully make it clear that the only country that will be nuked is Israel. That would bring this shit to a sudden end.
An American,. not US subject.
Want to know a secret? Russia DOES have WMD, and the means to deliver them.
Whoa, awesome.
I'm self-studying game theory, and that plus your suggestion blew my head off.
Read. Think. Repeat.
Game-theory is great stuff, the basics of which are very important to understand. My hat's off to you.
The most important thing I learned from it, though nowhere stated, is that EVERYTHING is a system, a flow of knowledge, and to view the world, outside family and friends, that way.
The "prisoner's dilemma" is basically the investigators getting inside the information system of the prisoners and manipulating it.
Read up on John Boyd's OODA loop theory/process as well.
An American, not US subject.
You see a soldier, I see the systems related to bringing, maintaining and supporting a soldier in the field...
Attack and manipulate systems.
It's a worst move - to go in, west want a ww3 to write off debts.
Once again everything AmerIsrael touches is wrecked, leaving suffering and poverty.
Poroshenko, and the Zionists and Neocons behind him, won't stop until they are stopped. You are watching pure evil unfold. And our own government is part of it.
Actions always speak louder than words!
http://en.tass.ru/world/759835
There have been so many photoshopped pictures of this thing that the real ones are probably long gone.....
The fuking ruskies blew the fuker out of the sky.....
End of story!
It has been decided, don't matter if gingas cong did it.
The world court of public opinion has determined that putin is behind it and this will be his undoing...
Like it or not it is a fact and will happen....
"Nothing is written"
T.E. Lawrence
Luckylogger, if the west had direct proof of Russia shooting down MH17, it would have been published long ago. The fact that the Dutch are deep sixing their report tells you all you need to know.
The time of people trusting politicians is over. Here is a good example of an oligarch- turned-president, who has been feeding on human blood and spreading CIA sponsored mayhem under the mask of “democracy” and “freedom”. What a joke, the entire political spectrum of the west is praising this fungus covered, Zionist rat as some kind of savior of the Ukrainian nation. It seems like George Orwell didn’t just predict the future we’re all living in - he simply provided a very well detailed script to be acted upon. Enjoy the show.
100+
I dont get it, Kiev withdraws support from the regions but not its troops lol. Hope their asses get kicked out clear to the outskirts of Kiev
Orwell didn't "predict" anything. He was a highly-connected individual.
Exactly. His books are just psy-ops that are supposed to confuse and terrorize the reader, since it is written AS IF things weren't ALREADY FAR WORSE than as portrayed in 1984 and Animal Farm...
Genocide? Well, it could be called that but could also be called a de-facto grant of independence. Moreover, Donetsk and Lugansk can absolve themselves of Ukraine's excessive debts.
It is Putin's move now. He should recognize the independence of the two states and send some more relief convoys. I expect he will even do more.
The result of this may be that other Russian-speaking areas of Ukraine begin to break away.
I think this is just punishing them for their votes. Soros didn't put all those millions into Ukraine for nothing, nor did Joe put Hunter in there for nothing. The empire will not give up easily, western media in full propaganda mode.
An EMP above Ukraine's capitol would finally put an end to this bullshit.
This isn't about Ukraine, which is only a means to an end. The Ukrainians are one step removed from troglodyte and too far removed from the interconnected global imperialist collective, for anything the Russians could do in Kiev to alter the Great Game. Detonate the same EMP directly above the Aldwych and Porky Pig's masters will have other concerns.
Wait until Russia decides to cut off the gas supply to west Ukraine. Then we will see what happens.
Anyone still think gold is not money?
From Ukrainian Kyiv vaults someone seemed to think so...
Kiev is simply bowing to reality. It large offensive to retake the Donbass before winter took hold failed. Seeing the forces massing for attack, the rebels used their recent arms supplies from Russia to mount a preemptive artillery and rocket assault just before the Kiev forces were to kick off their attacks. Only two major units of Kiev forces were able to launch attacks, two armored columns, These were dealt with and sent into retreat by rebel units, one a fully international brigade of foreign volunteers of anti Nazi fighters.
So, the offensive failed. Kiev has no tricks left in their military bag. So it stands to reason that they are cutting all normal ties to rebel held territory. In fact, this gives rebels just what they fought for, freedom from Kiev. Now they must rebuild all state structures under the independent DPR and LPR republics. Naturally, this implies aid from Russia and Belorussia. Perhaps even China will look to invest in the mines and heavy metal industry.
One step along the way to total independence. Of course cutting all old support systems is painful. But now that Kiev has left town, the local must rebuild all those systems, likley with Russian help. A gas pipeline has already been run into the territories that Russia can use to supply cut rate gas to DPR and LPR. Banking should easily see Russian state support for any private banks stepping to to take over those former Kiev centric banks.
A long road ahead, What Kiev did was admit that the DPR and LPR are now independent states. Why Washington ordered this move is hard to grasp, but Kiev did not make this move, it was made by the USA, as they control Kiev.
Kiev now will never return these new republics to the NATO family.
Don't count the Ukrainian people out yet, Jack.
The Ukraine military is about a half-step away from turning around and marching on Kiev. If Kiev is returned to the Ukranian people, all bets are off.
Think the Donbass and the rest of Ukraine can never make up? How about to fight a common enemy: Poland. That's where the fake U.S. backed coup originated and that's where Nazis in Maidan were trained. Polish mercenaries killed thousands in the Donbass.
If you wanted to unify Ukraine today, all you would have to do is run the parliment and president through the woodchipper and declare a retalitory war on Poland. Hell, Crimea might even vote to re-join Ukraine just to get a piece of that.
Nothing against the Polish people - just your CIA-run government. It needs a serious de-lousing. Hell, I would invite the Ukrainians over to help you after they get done taking care of business in Kiev.
Can't wait ruskies even try to attack any NATO country. That would send Russia back to stone age.
BTW there has been made some changes regarding so called "little green man" - for example it has now been declared in UN that financing such fighters is illegal and if any kind of them appeared let's say Poland, Baltic states, than it's accounted as attack to NATO and that activates Article 5 which mean all NATO forces are brought to deal with them. So really - don't want to try your luck over here?
Yeah... I thought so :)
Funny. Another delusion.
Better to assess the situation under the current possibility rather than relying on a hypothetical.
If you can provide something going into that direction, well, that would be something indeed.
Wait a second, viedoklis_lv.
So you're saying that Jewish-Ukrainian oligarch Ihor Kolomoisky's illegal mercenary army (little green men) fighting against the separatists in Donbass constitutes an attack on NATO?
Then why the fuck doesn't NATO invoke Article 5, bring in forces and attack Ihor Kolomoisky and his goons?
For that matter, why doesn't NATO attack the United States?? We have plenty of Xe/Academi head-choppers in the tunnels underneath the Donetsk airport right now. That clearly violates the little green men clause. Invoke Article 5!
[sigh...] I know... Some little green men are more equal than others.
I demand Obama attack himself right this f'king minute!
I was refering to: "How about to fight a common enemy: Poland"
But you are using logical falacy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5vzCmURh7o by refering to something I have never wrote: "So you're saying that Jewish-Ukrainian oligarch Ihor Kolomoisky's illegal mercenary army (little green men) fighting against the separatists in Donbass constitutes an attack on NATO?"
Another troll revealed.
No - I'm pointing out the weakness in YOUR logic.
It's not just Ukrainian troops fighting separatists and little green men.
You're trying to equiate Russia/Little Green Men with foreign mercenaries. Can't argue there - Russia is guilty.
You're conveniently leaving out the other side: the illegal, non-Ukrainian U.S. and Jewish-Oligarch mercenaries: Polish mercs, Lithuanians, Chechens, Xe/Academi fucks.
I know damn well you didn't write about them on purpose. Got a UTube video for that logical sleight-of-hand?
I pointed out that you are not approuching in this discussion on fair rules based on evidence and arguments, but you are using logical fallacies as internet trolls are trained to act.
Until you change your behaviour - discussion with me is not possible. Good day to you, sir!
"...I pointed out that you are not approuching in this discussion on fair rules based on evidence and arguments..."
Which evidence and arguments are legitimate? Those from: the Jewish-controlled U.S. mainstream media? The Zionazi-controlled UK media? CIA-controlled German media? Jewish-Ukraian oligarch Kolomoisky-controlled Ukranian media? Hell, nobody believed Jewish-Ukrainian oligarch Yanukovych's lies, why should we believe anyone elses?
Your Hasbara 'rules' depend on dictating that the discussion only include arguments and evidence presented by the biased media and 'approved' by the Jewish Oligarchs that control it. That pretty much excludes facts and common sense.
Go find that Ukrainian Maidan babe that made the video talking about 'freedom'. I want to hear it from her how happy she is that she is still living on her knees blowing the new 'zio-US approved' Jewish Oligarch for the promise of a little food and heat. I want to hear how happy she is that the USA instigated the violence, then handed her country over to the same kind of Jewish Oligarch criminals that just destroyed it and raped the Ukrainian people for everything they had left. I want to know how excited she will be to raise her kids in a shithole of a debt-slave country that serves no purpose except as a missile base for the US. I want to hear her explain how 2% of the Ukrainian population accounts for 40% of the parliment and 100% of the psychopathic oligarchs that serve as presidents and prime ministers.
Those are the 'facts' and 'arguments' I'm intersted in, not your 'Putin-the-antichrist' straw man.
"...Until you change your behaviour - discussion with me is not possible..."
So... you're going to sanction me until I obey your contrived rules? Do I even need to say it?
How fucking typical.
"Discussion with me is not possible" seems to be operative truth here.
special Latvian thinking
Nothing against the Polish people - just your CIA-run government. It needs a serious de-lousing.
do not knock the mighty pole
like boston he is strong
like sandy hoax he is the real deal.
if the rabbi tells you to eat your polish freedom apples until you shit them out.
you will eat.
tel aviv has polands back do not question.
the yid
the moon
or the saturn talmudick matrix
now goy take a bite of that apple
take your kosher ebola rolla vaccine shot
and sleep
Been waiting on a military coup for a while.The misery by Feb. should be enough
to finally cause it.Might be out of the frying pan and into hell though.
Yes, General winter commands, people lie down and freeze!
This is good news.
Kolomoisky is shutting his banks there.
Lost a lot already, hopefully will pull his gangs soon.
That is direct from Mariupol, Odessa told me.
They already have nothing in these bank
Liberators will be welcomed
Jack Burton, from what I've read in the Russian and Ukrainian media, the events you describe are accurate. Kiev tried to invade again and had their asses handed to them. The Ukie government is so short of material that they are re commissioning the 2Z7 203 Pion howizter, a 1970s soviet weapon, used to fire tactical nuke shells. The weapon is impressive, but obsoleted by subsequent advances in missile and aircraft capabilities.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bey1mYOvREE
Not to finance region that is controlled by ISIS... I mean... "seperatists" that attack you... Is that what you call genocide?
Interesting way to twist things.
As usual, nothing new here.
More offuscation and Latvian paid shill babboonism.
All putin has to do is keep sending the humanitarian aid convoys into East ukraine under the supervision of the Red Cross.
Red cross doesn't have full access to all cargo. Some get's checked for show other cargo brings in troops, ammo, weapons, etc. After so called humanitarian aid always intefies "seperatist" attacks.
And after this "aid" cargo 200 comes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_200_%28code_name%29
Reporters was given a right to open any cargo and they found nothing wrong.
Got to know russian to understand this conflict.
http://youtu.be/HsjL2GwKq0M
Living in tralalala land?
Makes no sense as one expects from Kievan Yatzi propaganda, which is cheap.
What the use of so cheap propaganda? I could understand from professional propagandists, they will try to make money, uninspiredly though but still...
If this were 1942 the U.S. would send in troops and supplies to help Soviet Union reclaim the region from the Nazi's.
But now it's 2014 and the U.S. is helping the Nazi's and fighting against the Russian people.
U.S. not send in troops to help Soviet at any way, USA send troops to occupy east Europe and still have military bases from that time in Europe. You can open the map and look at it yourself - you have more military bases in Europe than in USA.
Why does so called "seperatists" in Ukraine uses civilian houses to launch attack Ukranian army and than run away from those civilian houses putting people in danger? Why don't they fight in field like army should do that and not using civilians as shield?
http://youtu.be/Zv39Lc5oSVs
P.S. You can also hear GRAD in action - but you can't hear explosion, that means separatists are shooting using GRAD - there you go. This how they destroyed those civilian villages.
More blame shifting to exterior, more offuscation, more Kievan Yatzi babboonery. As if repeation makes true story out of false facts.
Maybe time to admit (big effort I know) that some stuff can not be covered up.
So why do those "seperatists" attack from civilian houses and than run away saying that soon Ukraine army will give reply fire? This was aired in Russia state TV. Why does those "seperatists" put civilians in danger? Why?
The Novorossiyans are fighting from civilian houses because they are under direct attack by the Kiev fascists. You can hear the sound of bullets whizzing by their heads. If the novorossiyans abandoned the houses, they put the civilians at risk of further atrocities by the Ukie death squads.
Civilians are escorted away if they want.
But many, especially old won't leave.
Even defy the Ukr come face them
scolding
Seperatists attack from civilian houses because they are civilian and those are their houses.....you want armed civilians to fight against tanks, airforce on an open field....thats called a slaughter. You'd have to be the mother of all assholes to put fellow civilians at risk if you had any other viable option. Those "civilians" are their neighbours, family, friends.
I'm not pro-russian or pro-Putin but it's pretty obvious to anyone with a brain that Kiev was a military removal of an elected govt, and crimea clearly voted to leave that dictatorship. I will say I think Russia has handled the situation with restraint, if it really wanted it could roll right over Kiev, and it certainly could arm the rebels with sufficiently larger firepower. Russia actually seems to be anti-war.
Um... because the separatists ARE the civilians??
And since the civilians actually live in the houses that Kolomoisky's mercenary army are trying to overrun, why the fuck would they shell them? The separatists are launching GRADS at non-Ukrainian mercenary formations. The separatists don't launch such attacks against actual Ukrainian troops because they're mostly conscripts - little people Ukrainians just like the separatists. Likewise, the Ukrainian troops refuse to shell residential areas in Donbass.
The only armed forces that are blasting the hell out of homes are either Kolomoisky's hired non-Ukrainian Polish, Chechen, and Nazi mercenaries OR head-chopper Academi/Xe fucks from the U.S.
Civilians with RPG's, AK47, tanks, GRAD's? Strange definition of word "civilian" - but I guess trolls have different dictionary.
Natural rights in Donbass is taken up...claimed in real
Natural right to self defense
No written 2nd Amendment needed.
If do not take it, didn't deserve in real.
Amer should identify with this
Your troll dictionary does not include Civil Defense?
Does it scare you?
First of all by no definition in any part of world once civilian pick up weapon still is defined as civilian - no there are no civilians with weapons.
Second 80% of them are no civilians but Russian army soldiers wit no recognition signs of Russian army - poor young boys who are send there to die - that's a pitty http://youtu.be/XUQAH1DkSn4 . For what? Even Russian nationalists doesn't understand that: http://youtu.be/SiYKXXgwBw8
No civilians with weapons?
Tell that to Americans
You are so deluded and ignorant of real world
Yes, when they will attack goverment structures they will not be defined as civilians. That is some kind of news / suprise for you?
Well, you learn everyday something.
"Natural rights in Donbass is taken up...claimed in real."
WTF?
Bob, stop using translate.google.com for your posts. If you can't write something in English that makes sense, maybe just shut up, eh?
Guess it pisses off you Jewish Oligarch butt-kisser wanna-be psychopaths to see the little people so defiant, doesn't it, VV? Little people are suppose to obey you, right? They're not suppose to try to arm themselves. Ukraine is a nation of laws! (That support psychopathic Jewish oligarchs).
Fuck off, hasbara. People are on to your land-grabbing, money-stealing, puppet-regime ways.
Your DHS crap in the U.S. isn't going to work, either. People already know they're the enemy. When it comes down to it, the average little-people American has more in common with Gaza and the Donbass than the Jewish Nazi Oligarchs running Ukraine today.
I'm not on the side of the separatists. I'm on the side of the Ukrainian people and YOU'RE the enemy.