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One Reader's Shocked Response Upon Learning His Health Insurance Cost Just Doubled
From a reader
ZH:
My wife and I own a small business and we had previously (in 2013) been buying health insurance on our own for ourselves and our two kids. The cost was about six hundred per month with a $5200 deductible, $6800 total out of pocket exposure for the family of four.
After spending months trying to register for the ACA in late 2013 and early 2014 my kids got put on our state's insurance (at "no cost") and my wife and I bagged an ACA policy at a subsidized cost of $281 per month with a total out of pocket of about $6500 (just for the two of us).
Attached is the ACA notification of next year's price increase. As you can see the cost goes from $281 to $555, a monthly increase of $274, a percentage increase of 97%.
Basically we are now paying the same amount for the two of us that we paid for all four of us one year ago.
How can that increase occur in a "free market" economy? Did I miss something? Has some input cost leaped exponentially in order to double the price I pay? Or has private industry colluded with government to rig the markets (again) in their favor?
How much longer will the American people allow corporations to rip them off in collusion with the government? Fuck this bogus economy and government captured by corporations. Where is the leader who will rise up from the masses and snuff out the corp/govt nexus before it imprisons us all in debt serfdom police state?
Do you think for one minute that freaking Mitch McConnell, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, John Boehner or anyone newly elected or previously elected cares one shit about my wife and kids or what we pay for crappy health care that we cannot afford to access due to high deductibles? Those fucks cannot see beyond the next donor phone call, and only come clucking out of the hen house in order to give voice to the latest party certified political meme, be it 'freedom', 'liberty', 'security" or some other hollowed out focus group tested bullshit sound bite.
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Yeah, I almost wish for it just to see the disaster.
My imagination is normally non-sociopathic, so I lack the ability to see how it would play out.
Just as a new tax lacks the pain element - perhaps some bastard child of Medicare and the HC and Insurance industries that costs the averge person $1500 USDper month.
And they make it undischargable in CH7, like Student Loans, and they can seize your property, and car, and professional licensure, and drivers license.
"How can that increase occur in a "free market" economy?"
You're free to choose one of the other two insurance companies. Because free markets work best with a couple of sellers and millions of buyers who are forced to buy. Related: if you like your ISP, you can keep it!
I seem to forget Obamacare being on the ballot.
What is this bullshit about duping stupid Americans?
I'm well aware that the vast majority of this continent are completely clueless, but would someone please elaborate how a bill that originated in the House of Representatives, passed through the House and the Senate, and was signed into law by the President has ANYTHING to with the People's vote?
No one asked us.
The people, stupid as they are, didn't vote for it.
If the answer is that the People elected the scumbags that passed this wholesale theft, that's one thing, but it's also disengenuous. ACA was sponsored by the top five pharma corporations in conjunction with the top five insurance corporations. They lobbied Congress with $500 MILLION to get it pressed.
The People had no say, no choice, no vote.
Anyone who says the United States is a democracy is an idiot.
Congress has a 12% approval rating, and falling.
That means that 88% of the People ARE NOT VOTING FOR THIS SHIT.
So much for your vote meaning a damn thing.
DEMOCRACY MY ASS!
Upvote. THis whole healthcare protection racket fiasco mirrors every other bullshit malum prohibitum law we have to obey (or face execution like the 19 y/o girl in Kentucky).
No one asked me to vote on the war on drugs. On assset forfeiture, or any war in my lifetime.
I probably wouldn't vote anyway because I know it's all bullshit, but they make decions that are good for them, not us.
The voting machine is an IQ test. If you touch that machine, you pass the government IQ test, which is designed to determine which people are stupid or ignorant enough to believe the .gov lies.
They like people who pass their IQ test. They're constantly trying to register more dumbasses who can pass their 'test'.
We are Idiocracy.
Attn: Tylers.
Isn't it time you used some of that ad revenue to update this archaic reply system? Please and thanks.
keep America beautiful
shoot a politician today
Their premiums have doubled? Of course they have. Someone has to pay for the illegal aliens health insurance!
How could they have forgot to solve the biggest leakage of Hospital Expenses unless it was intentional... and no one will be accountable. /S
Where is the leader who will rise up?
LOL. the masses call anyone who stands up to this nonsense all sorts of names and worse. The masses don't want a leader to rise up against this, they want this.They believe in all the illusions. A leader who shatters these illusions will be destroyed because people prefer their illusions over everything else.
Well the system is a marriage:
1) Government
2) Big Ziabatsu type Corporations
3) Military
4) Lobbyist Army
5) Spy Agencies, both Public & Private
6) Big Media, Limited Intl news, limited Activism news
7) Elitist US Aristocracy with behind the scenes access to businesses & government
Everyone knows life is expensive... they just want to work, get lucky, and get a Career... no whistle-blowing.
Fascism.
Call the Bunko Squad. It is a "Bait and Switch" con.
All this makes me laugh. Much of the right wing hates ObamaCare on principle because it is socialism. But they apparently don't understand Obamacare at all. It's not socialism, it's fascism. Government and oligarchic industry working hand in fist to impose economic conditions on citizens and extract the highest possible profits while limiting services.
Where are the cries of anguish from Big Pharma or the Medical industry? Why aren't they decrying ObamaCare? It's because they are making more money than ever from this new transfer of wealth.
ObamaCare is a disaster for Americans but not because it's socialism.
Besides, what is wrong with providing socialized medical care? Is the mere principle of hating Karl Marx enough to deny good health and higher productivity to the betrodden population of the wealthiest, most powerful country on earth?
Thers is no difference between socialism and facism. At least not in their end-goals. It's opression and nothing else.
Maybe. I find US people ignorant & uneducated... myself included.
If this Marketing Audience are uninformed and unsophisticated... well that is the market we have to deal with.
http://pvcann.wordpress.com/2014/01/27/the-characteristics-of-fascism-an...
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism:
2. Disdain for the recognition of human rights:
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause:
4. Supremacy of the Military:
5. Rampant Sexism:
6. Controlled Mass Media:
7. Obsession with National Security:
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined:
9. Corporate Power is Protected:
10. Labour Power is Suppressed:
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts:
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment:
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption:
14. Fraudulent Elections:
Our peasants are better than your peasants!
Our Zaibatsu is better than your Zaibatsu.
Plus 1.
This has been why TPTB waited. You could try to say weather and waiting for a black Swan in finance.
But maybe the plan was to
- dumb down the people
- dumb down education
- put fluoride in the water
- buy up TV & Radio & Print
- Establish new stock market memes & home buying memes
- put people on welfare where there is no chance of learning computer or business orientation... and no chance of learning accounting, budgeting, financial ratings, auditing, or finance
- without the pride of having worked in a career or job or military campaign... most people quit fighting the system as they are to dumb or uninformed
TPTB waited to implement slavery or Eugenics or World war so that the could dumb down the entire population.
Clear.
We suppressed all discussion of Fascism in US since we adopted the Nazis after WWII and became Ally of Spain in 1951 i think.
Plus we recruited Fascist in Italy & Spain for NATO/CIA secret stay behind armies... maybe right after WWII... BBC did a great documentary on it. Operation Gladio, Time Watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXavNe81XdQ
Operation Gladio - BBC Timewatch
http://www.whale.to/b/ganser_b.html (book)
Well as an Expat you must know better
- I have seen Doctors make House Calls in the Last Year to a guy from Canada who is blind (partly Blind) in his Hotel
- You have to Bring Up US Health Care Costs & Drug Costs
- You have to Bring up the 90,000 People that Die in the USA from Medical Mistakes in Hospitals
- You have to Bring up the Black Market Labor Force that uses the Hospitals, Don't pay the Debt, and probably can just say "I don't have ID, I am from Out of Country"
- You have to Bring up the Hospitals Mixed Financing, as Financing gets more complicated, and as more government funds come into play... the chances for Corruption, Fraud, "Gaming the System", and other things like mistakes, accounting errors, all come into play, a Simple System has the most Integrity & can sustain Auditing
- Regulation Capture
- Outsourcing Accounting
- Incentives, Bonuses, for Hospitals to Buy New Equipment & to Expand Facilities... which demand higher Prices for Services & Products which are pass on to Patients
- Patients pay for Lobbying, Taxes, Marketing, Language Translation, Security Guards, Over Prices Private Executives, Industry Insurance caused by Inflated Court Judgements in Civil Suites, use of cheap labor in Nursing or Doctoring which results in higher mortality & lawsuits
- Civil Suit, Civil Case Reforms are needed to keep the cost of Malpractice low
The Fact is that most Citizens don't raise all the Issues.
All valid points and as you note none of this is covered by media or politicians.
There is an epidemic of small hospital failures across America due to this bag of shit and the free shit crowd in the US and those 'visiting' from Mexico.
Thanks, just saw a story you might have in mind... urban hospitals closing down due to Obama Care.
Realize I am not a great Finance expert, but seems to me when systems have many funding sources... lo and behold we can drive you out of business by hiking any of the major costs.
Right?
I have a YMCA that has 3-4 financial sources... well if a consortium or cartel doesn't like the decisions... or refusal to raise prices... funding sources can be shut off. And directors may not only cross pollinate... they may overlap.
Everybody works for somebody sir. Get it together and you can continue here in this job.
Gapish?
Chains you can believe in.
bring this shitshow down already.
Wonder when we're going to have real life John Qs.
Is it just me? Or is Catastrophic costs paid by Insurance limited to $5K to $6K?
But typically US Citizens Die broke after hospital treatment, cancer, over $200K which force Bankruptcy?
$5K max Insurance for $400K $500K total bills is Criminal Fraud.
I think you've misinterpreted these numbers. $5K is generally going to be the deductible or out-of-pocket max. That means you can get a few million dollars in health care for only $5K. The stories of people being in bankruptcy due to treatments is exactly what ObamaCare was intended to fix. However, I think we'll be seeing a lot more poeple in bankruptcy after trying to pay $1K/month premiums during decades of healthiness. And if you don't pay those premiums you won't have healthcare. You might get Medicaid, but that million dollar treatment won't be covered. It's a new boss: same as the old boss.
The stupid is out in force.
$5K is generally going to be the deductible or out-of-pocket (PER YEAR)
$1K/month premiums (FOR LIFE)
50 years of healthy life, $600k in premiums. Inflation? One million, easily.
You won't be getting a few million in HC, you will get 600k and then they won't treat you.
They will call it something else, but you won't be spending more than you paid. The government will make certain of it...
Thanks the HMO top was like $25K 20 years ago as I remember it. Just checked some forms and didn't see what you helped me with. Figured we ended up with an HMO.
But thanks to both of you above.
How can that increase occur in a "free market" economy? Did I miss something?
An Economy that is Command Controlled is called Communist if you have Centralized Government, Centralized Economic Decisions, the Power is Centralized, the Military is Centralized and the Government Owns the Means of Production.
I might get this a little Wrong, but US has Military Republic, not anything Else.
But... you have to look at how the government grants access to those with big money, lobbyist, gift givers,... how legislation comes from Lobbying... how War Powers are granted to One Person, the US President, How Federal Budgets & Wall Street Banks drive the Economy both through Centralized Funding and through Centralized Regulations that dominate the States,.... then you see the Presences of "Systemic Fraud" and the Lack of Concern & Clean up by the DOJ & FBI,....
You conclude we have a Duopoly... but look at Zaibatsu.
Support For:
- Trashing the US Constitution
- Systemic Wall Street Fraud
- Systemic Fraudulent Financial Ratings
- Jon Corzine Trading with Segregated Customer Funds
- Naked Short Selling, HFT, ALgo Trading, No Investigation of 9-11 Airlines Trade worth Billions
- Sub-Prime Mortgage Fraud, Ninja Loans, Sub-Prime AAA Rated Derivative Tranches with No Investigation
- US Labor Competing with Slave Labor overseas
- US Capital Flight from USA, 40% of Working Age Labor Force Not working and Not Consuming
- Your Older Relatives have to rely on MEDICARE & Social Security as they Lost a $1 Trillion in Pensions & Retirement Savings
Systemic Corruption:
- Regulation Capture
- Government Capture
- Exponential Private Executive Compensation Increases
- Revolving Door to Industry for Regulators & Government Employees/Military Officers
- Gresham's Law
- Exponential Federal Budget Increases
- Exponential US Debt
- Exponential Securitization of Assets & Debt
- Augustines' Law, by 2054 the DOD will only be able to buy one airplane which must be shared BTW Services since the cost of Weapons is Increasing Exponentially
- Doctors & Justices Accept Gifts of Seminars for Professional Development & Certifications, these Gifts come from Industry who want to put their Agenda in Place
- Money in Politics, Gift Giving, are Systemic Corruption
Many Financial Beta Tests;
Predatory Capitalism is action
- Bail Out
- Bail In
- QE & 5 years of ZIRP
- Ninja Loans & foreclosures
- Rehypothicated mortgages
- US Financial Schemes Damaged International Faith in USA, US Financial Markets, US Petro Dollar, and Damaged European Investors
- Retirement savings & Pension Funds Quantifiably Damaged
- No investment Interest for Savings Accounts
- US Municipalities & Counties & University Trusts Damaged
- High Gas Prices 6 years from 2008 Surplus
- EU & Euro
- Price Fixing commodities & LIBOR
- Detroit Bankruptcy was the Beta Test.
- Post Office Liabilities to Heath Care
- Sub-Prime Loans
- S&L Crisis
- Yet Neither Rs or Ds in 2 Party system take any action to address Economic, banking, Jobs, Pension, Debt issues
How do we control people:
- Courts, Laws, Rules, standards
- Authorities, Patriarchy, Matriarchy, Legislation
- Fear & Propaganda
- Control of Information & History
- Conditioning, Behaviorism
- Crisis Creation, False Flags, using Crisis to implement change
- Money, Inflation, Controlling Credit, Indebtedness, Fear of money insecurity & lack of success, Peer Pressure
Look at:
- Fascist
- Democide
- Duopoly
- Corporacracy
- Stratocracy
- Plutocracy
- Inverted Totalitarianism
- Crony Capitalism
Yeah, Fascist or Organized Crime Cartel.
Should we call it Empire, Neo-Monarchism, Duopoly, Inverted Totalitarianism, stratocracy, Corporatism, Plutocracy, Crony Capitalism,...
- Empire
- Mafia
- Cartel
- Conglomerates
- Keiretsu
- Zaibatsu
- Yakuza
- Chaebol
- Hong
- Tongs
- Jesuits
- Crusaders
- Corporation
- Money Trust
- Lobbyist
"Look we put our Zaibatsu against your Zaibatsu any day of the week."
The Wealthy & the Political Class like the system exactly like this.
- Volunteer Military, Contractor Army = very Flexible
- Lobbying gives Wealthy the Access
- No US States can leave the Union
- No US States can hold a vote and make a big difference in national policy
- Foreign Policy, Rumsfeld Doctrine, Cheney Doctrine = can't be influenced by individual US States
- US Banking, Accounting, Financial Integrity = can't be influenced by individual US States
-----
We got issues. They need more than a fuzzy "No" posted.
- Stagnant Capital
- Monetary Leakage
- Economic Leakage
- Labor Demand is Chronic Problem
- Most Industries that paid well are in decline
- There aren't that many jobs in Drilling & Mining
- Smartest People go into Finance which doesn't produce anything
- US Engineering is lower and flat, specializing in Weapons mostly
- Corporations are getting larger, giving them not only power over pricing & Distribution, but also over government, legislation, and industry employment
----
- No resemblance to Order at all
- Both Parties are War Monger Parties
- Third Parties are suppressed
- There is no SOTU Speech nor Presidential Debates
- There is no Democracy, we have a Military Republic
- There is no means to National Referendums
- Corporate Money influences doctors, judges, congress, and starts wars
- There is no justification in the last 100 years to enter a war over 600 miles from CONUS
- Still we do get food & trade from overseas and through vulnerable sea routes
communism is a false lable, bro
this erosion globally has been persistent, and enduring. but it isn't communism.
its monopoly.
plutocrats monopolize everything. they care not whatever label you throw at it, to understand, see W Va Coal Mines around 1900. thats the plan, thats the goal, always was, inevitable, when P < P + I
communism is a false boogey man offered by the plutocrats.
In the pure sense of the definition of communism you are correct but since people implement government, in this case communism, government is never pure. We have communists with the typical fascism sprinkled on top running our government. Commie-Fascism.
I'll give you a point for stimulating discussion.
But I see it as not making a difference whether it was Stalinism, Leninism, Maoism, Marxism... These were declared by the MIC as the Enemy. Now Define the MIC... well the Elites in Banking and who filled out Officer Ranks and OSS/CIA where powerful and influential and... they didn't want to let it go after WWII.
In fact their assessment based on Germany, Italy, Spain, and other parts of Europe including Russia were that Communists were a powerful force. This experience was profound to the Europeans and Obviously to those that lived under the Soviet Block. And there was nothing nice about Maoism, Stalinism or what happened in Cambodia.
But it lead to a need for a Robust Military Budget & a Robust CIA/NATO. In accepting this Assessment and these conservative Ideals... Europe & USA had to build an Empire.
but maybe I ramble...
It was this Upper Elite Class that drove the US Cold War... but probably only with the Debriefings of Nazis and realizing the Logic of Fighting the Communist.
In the END we can not justify the overthrow of Foreign Governments or the Cost of the Weapons Programs, Military Build Up or Hegemony of most of the World.
Must say the cost of the weapons program is miniscule.
The overthrow of foreign governments is never good with few exceptions, examples WWII Germany and Japan
geekz Rule. Agree. I don't use the mining analogy often, but I do use it to explain where we get US Worker Rights from.
Seems many people don't know the 100 plus years of activism that gave them holiday pay, overtime, weekend pay, night time pay...
Communism has been used to justify a clear US Militarism, US Empire Building, and aggression with CIA & Military to back up Economic Hegemony.
I would agree that monopoly prevents true capitalism. For anyone who disagrees, try to launch a competitor to the healthcare system with a group of your neighbors and investors. The very first cast iron wall in your way is the government. And if you ignore the wall, you will eventually experience "terminal enforcement". Sound like a free market yet?
True. I would never get near investing in a health care system for income as a direct investment in creating my own company.
I remember trying to explain why this was going to happen to a friend of mine with a sick fiancee. It was a hard conversation. He didn't want to hear it. I was certainly looking like an asshole for saying it was an insurance company give away and rates had to rise drastically. He thought they would drop because everyone would be forced to buy in. He was talking about his fiancee and I was talking about economics. Everyone being forced to move from health INSURANCE to health CARE means rates to have to go up on people that usedto only need insurance. Peter Schiff was who pointed that out. Repeating his truths never makes you popular.
Ah, Mr. Schiff, the master shill of covering for the existing system. Buyer beware. In simple terms, as long as government is involved in any level of health care, costs will be unaffordable. Get the government out, and that mean Medicare also, and maybe the system can fix itslef. Wll never happen, so silly conversation.
You've seen nothing yet dude, I pay around 800 Euro's (that's around 1000$) per month for a SINGLE Person, earning a Middle Class wage, mind you I live in Europe, but coming soon to your doorstep too.
They like to point out that Healthcare in the US in 2x as expensive as in Europe (per Person) yes, but in Europe 1 Person pays for 3 Others who do not pay!
Technically there are no deductibles, however you somehow still end up ponying up 1000s on "auxiliary" treatments that are not covered by the "Basic Insurance" anything from Dentist to Alternative Medicine costs Extra and in the 1000s.
I live in Germany. My health insurance is around 15% of my income, give or take depending on what they adjust for pensions. I have to have this because I'm retired. I'm not sure if a working German also pays at the same rate. They do get employer coverage like here. That is, the employer pays it.
That includes my entire family if need be. Kids up to 26 if they are students. Dental and eyecare as well. Not the very best coverage but adequate and hassle-free.
There are no deductibles or out of pockets, other than a €10 per day hospital stay fee. Rx filled is €5
When I lived in the US I had good coverage at times and poor coverage at times. The poor coverage and the passage of ACA is a major reason we (my wife is German) decided to move back. We just couldn't afford it earning around $70K a year.
I'm not sure if the ACA maxiumum out of pocket will help in the long run or not, but the premiums, deductibles and co-pays up to $12K/yr seem to be too much.
So much for Germans being intelligent...
$70K a year...15% of my income...$12K/yr seem to be too much.
You are paying $10,500 in Europe plus hospital stay fee and Rx. Not much difference
10,500 is not too much, but 12,000 seems to be too much?
He is retired now - I doubt his income is the 70k annual
Correct. I make a lot less now.
If I had a job making equivalent to $70K here the employer would be covering my insurance.
My wife works and gets insurance for the family, but since I'm retired I have to have my own policy. I'm supposed to pay 15% of my income as a non-employement insurer, but it's actually less than that for me. They audit it every year or so and apply the pension discounts, etc. I pay about $225 a month, depending on the Euro/USD rate. That's for medical, dental, eyecare. No deductions, no co-pays. It had covered the entire family until my wife got her current job.
It is expensive, but there aren't surprises when something happens.
In the US we got hit with a $12,000 bill for a minor surgery. That doesn't happen here.
If I explain to a German about deductibles and co-pays and out of network costs they turn white. There's not a whole lot of expendable income here either.
"..employer would be covering my insurance" - and where would your employer get the money to pay for your insurance? .. think, think, think ... oh maybe out of the work YOU do?
Correct, it is part of my salary but I don't think the rate is 15% of an employee's salary for employers. IOW, maybe I'd be working off around 8-10% of my salary for insurance.
As I said above, I'm not saying it isn't expensive. I'm saying the costs are more predictable for me and if I need care I don't have to worry about unforeseen costs. It's not for everybody, but I prefer it to what we experienced at times in the US.
If I were working in Germany making $70K and had to pay the $10K for my entire family including dental and eye, with no deductibles, no co-pays and no fear of out of network costs I could live with it. It's expensive but you get what it says on the tin. That's moot however because the employer covers the exact same insurance.
In the US we had good insurance with major illnesses that covered everything, but also had poor insurance that led to major bills. You don't need that shit when you're sick. The $12,000 in the US is what you might have to pay out in order to see if you're going get shafted for more because of unforeseen costs. The $12K 'door fee', so to speak, is what I find expensive. It's also an up front cost, not a monthly pay out item.
The other factor is that you're not limited to networks of doctors here, you can choose where you want treatment for the most part, without major headaches.
Germany, for me, is cheaper to live in and pursue my hobbies. I'm not particularly crazy about the people who live here, but I'm not a social type anyway. The trade off is OK for me, but certainly not for everybody.
No you would not get anything extra, Dental etc. is only covered upto 10% if you want quality and not go with Mercury fillings, forget eye care you will pay for that 100%.
My family has been to the dentist countless times and I haven't seen any bills. My daughter studies in England. She comes home when she needs to go to the dentist. So, 'not quality' care is relevant.
I've had estimates done for extra work here and in the US. It's not close.
Anyway, you're not one of those Germans who thinks they can buy status and intelligence, are you?
Mistake #1 Who said we had a free market economy?
And especially with regards to the healthcare industry, who in their right mind would think of free market economy? LOL Its truly laughable. Both before and since Obamacare its anything but a free market economy. In a free market economy, we'd have full transparency. On a scale of 1-10 with 1 being transparent, we're a 23. In a free market economy, we'd have nearly unlimited treatment options. That's absurd in our healthcare market, unless you own a Cadillac healthcare plan. In most American healthcare plans today, your options are limited to what your healthcare plan will pay for. My best example is one's access to Harvoni. Harvoni is the newest blockbuster drugs being produced by Gilead sciences for the treatment of Hep C for patients with genotype 1. It has a CURE rate of 95% which is wildly successful.. Unfortunately, it retails at $1100 a pill and most treatments are one pill a day for 12 weeks costing about $92400... Still $92400 is cheap next to a liver transplant which will run about $500,000, assuming you can get one. But very few healthcare plans are going to approve of a $92400 drug treatment much less the 24 weeks of treatment my brother-in-law's doctor prescribed him. Fortunately, where there is a will, there is a way. My bro-in-law was just notified this week Gilead will foot his entire $184800 drug treatment. Wow! Thanksgiving has arrived.
There is no reason for the insurance companies to stop with the mandates they already have,Prediction:mandatory flood insurance in all 50 states or you lose your property.Right now,private companies don't offer flood insurance,Slap a mandate on there so people who live in deserts have to pay 3000 per year for flood insurance and that will change immediately.It will go entirely private,and everyone wyll have to pay,while claims will become difficult or impossible to collect.
You know I dislike McConnell as much as anybody, and didn't vote for him in the last election, but it's fucking stupid to blame him or any other Republican for the ACA, since not a single one of them voted for the damn thing.
oh.. so you actually believe bs "voting" records actually represent some sort of truth? really? interesting...
ACA has been in the works for a VERY long time. much like the Patriot Act was just waiting for that certain moment...
come on man. politics are complete theater, an illusion. this ACA tyranny certainly is a SYSTEM thing, a Plutocrat thing.. not socialism, or libtards, or any of the publically offered reading of thier script.
He is doing all the Heavy Lifting in Immigration... Not S/
President executes a royal flip-flop using executive action on immigration...
Trying to sabotage Republicans?
REPORT: 95% families of illegals being released...
3,000 Illegal Minors Join TX Schools...
New wave expected...
East Coast states are growing destination...
Border Residents Lash Out at O...
McConnell where is the 700 mile Wall I paid for, Asshole??
but atleast you get to keep your doctor....for now!
My Blue Cross plan goes up to $750 a month next year, from $250 before ACA. I'm self employeed. That's an identical plan, PPO, private plan. My choices are to take a lower quality plan or pay $9000 a year just for health care for one person. Obviously that bites into other spending and any hope of retirement.
I was paying 650 for a family of four for a high deductible 10,000/5,000 then as soon as the insurance market closed out new policy shopping in Jan
or Feb my rates went up to 1,000. I spent two hours on the phone getting shuffled from person to person who could not answer most of my questions
and could not even direct me to someone who could. I gave up . Im still saving allot as my family does not require the drugem and cutem services
which are rarely of any benefit unless your in an accident. The health care industry is just one of the industries responsible for this nations forward downward
progress. We could easily slash our budget on health care by 50% or more. Funny how all these federal programs are misnamed like affordable, patriot, defense, security.
Not defending the healthcare companies but the policies they offer MUST include specific coverage mandated by Zerocare, even if you do not want certain coverage you have to buy it - or be fined - I mean taxed.
Since he is self employed isn't he going to write off a hefty self-insurance amount on his taxes ?
Yeah, there's a deduction. So maybe I save $1000 on taxes. So my $6000 health insurance increase is only $5000. That makes it all better then.
I was directing my commment to the original post - hadn't read your's.
fwiw - I've made this same comment before here - if you spend 330+ days outside of the US you do not need to subscribe to Obamacare. We also are saving about $9K in property taxes, several times that in cost of living. Our energy costs (excluding gasoline) are unbelievably low.
Maybe you can retire - but you may need to make some adjustments.
OK, thanks.
When you write it off on the Tax form it just lowers your gross so you save maybe 30% when it all comes together ... it's all $ down the rat hole and those $ buy less every month.
Health care is directly related to the right to life. Something the government has no power or authority to abrogate.
Ocare has saved me thousands!!
When they cancelled my policy and doubled the premiums for an ACA compliant policy, I said FU, I'll bank it and watch what I eat and be more cautious crossing the street
Thank you Mr President!!
.
Ah, we’re going to live forever. No insurance needed. Pink Slime is all good too. Extra sugar, please.
STUDY: American personal freedom now ranks below 20 other nations...
Germany tops USA as 'world's favorite country'...
Yep it is all good.
Late add: not USA, but Hotel Fascism:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/11239413/Hotel-guests-fined...
A couple have been "fined" £100 by a Blackpool hotel they described as a "rotten stinking hovel" on travel review website TripAdvisor.
Tony and Jan Jenkinson posted the negative comments after being unimpressed with the one night they spent at the Broadway Hotel.
The couple, from Whitehaven, later found £100 charged to their credit card. The hotel said its policy was to charge for "bad" reviews.
Trading Standards from Cumbria County Council are investigating. Officials believe the hotel may have breached unfair trading practice regulations.
I love the Liberals....they voted for this because they thought everyone should get free healthcare....but they ALWAYS thought someone else was going to pay for it.....now they get their bill for it..and they complaign....lol...what a bunch of idiots...healthcare is not a right...and for sure illegals should not get free healthcare....but they do....and we are stupid for giving it to them...no other country does...
if you want to make something expensive as shit, first give it away for free. Just like a drug dealer..get em hooked, then throw em a left hook.
Ask a liberal what their definition of "free" is.
I still have a grandfathered policy from Aetna - in 2011 it cost me @201 a month. Fast forward to 2014, and I'm paying $411 for the same plan. It's a fairly good plan - 1500 deductible 0% copay. Next year, I'm paying $590. For the same plan. Nice, huh ? Since I haven't needed the services of doctors or hospitals for years, and I'm at that 8% mandate exemption, so next year I'm reducing my hours and dropping the insurance. Fukkem.
Just saw a story that Orange Man Boehner decided to suffer with us little people and take an Obamacare policy instead of Medicare, and his premium was $460ish. The man is almost 10 years older than I am, and his policy is cheaper than anything I can get under any plan no matter how high the deductible. How does that work...yeah, I know, I don't need to be told.
My experience is EXACTLY in line with the OP. I didn't go to the doctor once in the last 12 months, have 0 claims, and our insurance for 2015 went up a like amount.
I'm healthy, don't make a claim, and they raise my raite? What the actual fuck?
If car insurance was like that, we'd pay lower rates if we got DWIS, at-fault wrecks, and lots of tickets, while the safe drivers would pay the most.
What a country!
America? FUCK YEAH!
i heard there is a pilot test program to start charging by the mile for car insurance, in California and Florida, if WE don't fight this, then all cars will be fitted with a black box soon. Total Orwellian going on here. Soon our grands kids will hate us for not standing up to these crooks
To be fair, my health insurance has probably increased about 10% per year for the last twenty years, in most years I make zero claims other than sometimes an annual checkup. I've negotiated the coverage down several times over that period to help compensate. But at best Obamacare has had zero beneficial effects on costs.
Nobody in their right mind really thought it would of course. Oh, some academics thought that maybe after ten years of regular checkups that many might otherwise skip, long-term problems would be reduced, but that is NOT going to happen when policies have $5,000 annual deductibles.
There are real issues with the American medical system, but they are HARD to fix, and Obamacare was put together by retarded kindergarten kids. Improve it? That's like "improving" your tricycle so it will fly you to the moon. Single-payer in the form of free walk-in clinics, with a cross-over to supplemental insurance, is the only real solution, but that will cut the overall insurance biz by 50% to 90%.
The immediate problem is ER rooms and uninsured (and illegal aliens). The Feds should have just printed some money and handed it to them. But 80% of the people walking in don't need an ER anyway they just have the flu and need a (free) clinic. So the Feds should require every ER to have a free clinic adjacent, where patients can be treated at 1/10 the cost. Do that, and it would have 80% of the benefits of Obamacare at 20% of the cost. Similarly let the Feds pick up the insurance costs for preexisting conditions, and OK cover a freebie annual checkup if you must (do you know what doctors *charge* for that today, OMG!). Then drop the rest of Obamacare, including the mandate. Have a nice day.
It is my understanding that the purposes of the (un)affordable care act are twofold.
1. Welfare for insurance companies and drug companies
2. Income redistribution to the rich and very poor and away from the middle class
I suppose you could add graft for politicians, but that goes without saying for any law crafted these days. The politicians increase their monetary dependence.
Many ObamaCare supporters simply wanted to wreck the healthcare system to make single payer more marketable.
Fascism - the lefts favorite cup of soup.
Keep in mind that the organization providing healthcare insurance is the same one that invaded a couple of countries to the tune of $3-4 trillion dollars and didn't get so much as a thank-you note, a box of candy or a bouquet of flowers...
I have been on the winning side of the last 9 presidential elections. I will put this as simply as i can. Rapidly increasing ACA costs will sink the Dems in 2016 unless they get to the bottom for all the reasons behind it. It sure looks like classic bait and switch, I was an ACA supporter until the 2015 premium schedule came out. This program will not last if premiums are going up 20, 30 50% or more annually, thats's for sure. The GOP can not keep whipping this dead horse, come up with some ideas on how to improve the god damn thing. To me repeal is not an option and only strengthens the Dems hand, for the GOP to win on this politically in 2016, they need to understand why ACA eas enacted and attack its weaknesses. Them they look like they are solving a problem as well, not just bashing Obama. The GOP may think they have a winning hand considering the midterms, but they don't considering their rotten stand on most social issues, which most do not agree with them on gay marriage and abortion for example. They will not win in 2016 unless they EFFECTIVELY attack Obamacare, and not come out whining. I voted Obana twice and I am listening GOP, OK. But don't sound like you have no damn good ideas on your own on this issue. Fix it, don't repeal it. That way you don't lose the support it has today, people who were alienated with the old programs, the preexisting conditions and others.
bk winning last 9 presidential elections huh? 4yrs per cycle? 4yrs x 9 = 36 plus 18yr= 54 yr old. you want a fix to aca by gop?? LOL you never learn do you? aca is result of .gov take over of medicine, it will only get worse.
fee for service, did work - add in .gov and ins co's and high % of premiums get drained off, this is a make work program for ins co's and .gov bureaucrats..like all .gov programs it will go on forever and grow until every last dime is eaten by these bastards.
much like TSA HLS, ACA is for control of we the people. enjoy.
The Republicans were totally kept out of anything to do with Obamacare, and they need to continually remind the public of that, and that about half the country, therefore, was not represented. Their marketing plan should be to the entire country, for a plan that works. But the problem is that the Republicans are just as corrupt as the Democrats, so who's kidding who?
On the winning side, but a loser? Hmmmm.
Perhaps the SCOTUS will rule on the penalty being unconstitutional and you will be free to not have insurance. However if this happens and if you decide you need insurance, all the health risk will bail out of Obamacare and the whole system will cost EVEN MORE going forward...welcome to the middle where the US is now half-pregnant...not Capitalist anymore and yet not fully Socialist either...worst of both worlds.
We are full blown Communist run fascism.
Try and do anything in this country without some branch of government demanding a permit and a fee.
Have you been under a rock? Benedict Roberts already ruled it was consitutional since it magically became a "tax" instead of a penalty.
A free market economy? What planet is this person on? And a s a small business owner this comes as a shocker? Seriously, has this guy been under a rock for 20 years?
Just confirming this writers experience.
Our firms current NON-compliant (grandfather status) health insurance crappy plan cost around $750/month for family insurance until 11/30/15. If we have to purchase an ACA compliant plan on 12/1/15, it goes up a nice 92% next year. So that roughly means the plan is $1500 per month for an employee with a family. This will result in us having to increase prices of our service around 5% when all we are getting is downward pressure on prices.
Also, the penalty for not providing healthcare insurance is $2000/year per employee. Lets see, $1500/month = $18,000/year or $2000/year.
Thank you Nancy Pelosi!
i don't get the mindset, why pay at all...if voting for new clowns does not work, then vote with your dollars, that's where your power lies
empty your bank account (get a safe) empty your 401/ira..and fuck the penalty. And don't file taxes(or file for an ext for 14)..this will be the wind that brings down the house of cards. This is like a bad joke, yes its true, that the insurance companies and governments have merged for their own benefit, it has become more than obvious.
I'm with you.
This shit ends when people stop complying en masse. By increasing rates by ~50% per year, it won't take long till most Americans can't afford insurance. I'm already there.
So fuck their regulations and bullshit corrupt crony capitalism.
I ain't playin'.
folks better get on board soon, agenda 21 is another rape of the people, to take your property rights away\among other things ( all should look into this, it will piss you off)...if we do not stand up now, it will be to late.
God (natural) makes laws for man, not king or queen.
Time to throw out the funny hat people.
agenda 21 in a nutshell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NJZNThHP3U&list=UUH7OUk52TlbS6Ise7mFBtoQ
The Plunge Protection Team was "tin foil hat conspiracy" until it wasn't. Blue helmets on US soil will quickly recieve extra ventillation. That's why any takeover will be done via executive order, judicial decree and legislative corrpution.
Hope and Change
As long as John Roberts allows unlimited "capaign contribution BRIBES" we will have no freedom. Obama Care was allways a wealth distribution scam to fund minorities and to pass it the first time he gave in to all the drug and medical unions about re importation of cheap drugs etc. My advice figure out a way to get foreign country insurance. Anywhre outside the USA is cheaper and often better.
If you want to see premiums jump back in line to what they used to be, we the people need to declare open season, no bag limit for the sleazy politicians and the insurance company execs that coluded to rip off the taxpayers of this country. Time to tell them"NO!! Fuck You!!!".
So sue for fraud/misrepresentation/collusion/price rigging. If an investment advisor were to do this, the SEC/CFTC would slam down on them (in theory; if there was no new midget porn available that day and they had nothing better to do).
Perhaps I am mistaken, but there are four in your family. Before Obama care all were covered by around $560 a month. Now after Obama care two are getting insurance paid for by the state, and you have to pay for the other two, that is how I understand it. After Obama care your total out of pocket cost remained the same or even went down a few dollars. Why would you be livid over that?
The person who should be livid is the guy or gal who's cost doubled and don't have anyone getting the free insurance from the state.
Where is the leader who will rise up from the masses? Look in the mirror. He/she has always been there. Your only leader should always be you. It is the lack of responsible action in our lives, to do for ourselves what must be done and appointing others to be responsible for doing these things, that has brought us to this very moment in time.
http://newamerica-now.blogspot.com/
The least the government can do for the payers is to send them pictures and a bio of the non-payers whos healthcare they are paying for. It might make them feel better. The payers could post the pictures on Facebook. Something like here are my kids at the park in this picture and this other picture are the people we pay health insurance for. They could also post pictures of the people that they buy EBT for, and SSI for, and...
Sally Strothers won't be involved will she?
For the price of a cup of coffee a day, I'd rather have the cup of coffee...
I love that "for just a dollar a day crap." It was so simple and easy however the sheeple caught on that if you start buying a cup of coffee a day for 100 people it adds up. Which is why .gov unleashed Gruber on the sheeple for healthcare.
The protagonist in the article is a tyipcal example of a member of our culture here in the US. "WHO WILL FIX MY PROBLEM!?"
What the vast bureaucracy that is our corporate government relies upon is the emasculation of the US citizen, a cultivated helplessness, a learned apathy widely championed in our media. Perhaps its an extension of the northeatern cultures (New Netherlands "tolerance", Midlands "tolerance", and Yankee community organization----all consent based mindsets perfectly suitable for big governments and sheep alike)? I have been wondering about how the media has been portraying the white American male differently over the past couple of decades, and it seems to me that the government is working in collusion to marginalize a strong, independent white male (culturally Greater Appalachia and Deep South, and maybe Tidewater culture) thus the media representation of "dumb rednecks". While Greater Appalachian culture is generally at odds with the Deep South and the Tidewater in some respects, they have been grouped together again---almost the same cultural fualt lines as in the 1860's. I'd like to congratulate Obama and his handlers for making him the new Lincoln.
The short answer for the man in the article is to "Fix the problem yourself". If enough "Grubers" swing from lamp posts, the bureaucracy will eventually get the message. But the bureaucracy will shear the sheep until there is nothing left to shear otherwise.
I have little in common (in philosophical terms) with people in the Northeast, with people in southern California, with people who receive government benefits, with people from large Liberal/Progressive cities. Let us amicably part ways. The Liberals/Progressives can then freely parasitize themselves into oblivion, while I (and those other productive members of society) can then thrive unburdened. Otherwise, this will all end in bloodshed and tears once again.
The White make has been the world's alpha force for the last half millenoim at least. Invented and disocovered practically everything, an irreistable fighting force when mobilized. He's our globalist overlords' greatest threat and they know it well. That is why he's been marginalized, discriminated against and mocked at every turn.
I injured my ankle badly last week and asked up front what the cost of the x-rays would be. $209 with insurance from my employer. Me and my razor thin budget balked so they sent me to a financial counselor. I couldn't believe I qualified for government assistance on my bill. In fact, if I had a little less income they'd have covered it 100%. Which made me wonder two things:
1. Why do I work so hard to get ahead? If I slacked some more I'd get things paid for me.
2. A sprained ankle set me back that much. What if it had been worse? How could I have ever paid for it?
They are still trying to sign up members to the FSA. Once everyone is signed up you'll find out who they really care about.
See China. Millions of people working for $5 a day and then a few hundred Party Leaders living like kings. And their families end up on the payroll at JPM and Goldman.
That's right! Why you working so hard?! There's no room for a black man in the white man's workforce.
.
Fuck insurance. Go to the emergency room for free care. And fuck the IRS penalty. Adjust yer withholding so you get no refund, and there'll be nothing for the IRS to take from it.
Seems to me the only benefit from insurance is the time it takes to get voluntary procedures such as knee replacement.
Apparently I'm the only one that can do math here.
I see a 23% premium increase that is being passed on to you. I, the taxpayer, am still paying my $7,920.
A.) Stop bitching, at least you get a choice.
B.) You're welcome.
I feel so lucky, i make too much to get any freeshit, my rates went up another 25% this year and I get to subsidize this whinny asshole too.
You want to feel bad for someone? What about the poor schmuck who used to sell health insurance year round? Now his only work is during these goddamn open enrollment periods. Wtf is he/she supposed to do the rest of the year?
a friend of mine works for the IRS. he pays $280/month for full coverage BC/BS health insurance that includes vision and dental.
he has a five person family
obamacare is legislative-judicial-government fraud
My premium went from $525/mo to $750/mo! Why? So some fucking illegal can get taken care of?
Btw, I'm still searching for the clause in our Constitution that allows the fed govt to control healthcare. Haven't found it yet, but it's got to be in there, right?