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Student Debt By Major: What Not To Study To Avoid A Lifetime Of Debt Slavery

Tyler Durden's picture




 

As recently reported by the Project On Student Debt, 7 in 10 seniors who graduated from public and nonprofit colleges in 2013 had student loans, with an average debt load of $28,400 per borrower. This represents a two percent increase from the average debt of 2012 public and nonprofit graduates. It is also a new record high.

Those curious about the geographic breakdown of the student debt burden by state, can do so at the following interactive map:

 

It goes without saying that while student debt is bad, record student debt - which at the Federal level amounts to over $1.2 trillion and rising exponentially - is worse.

In fact, as shown previously, the unprecedented debt burden on the Millennial generation has been used to explain why the largest generational cohort in US history is unable to carry the weight of the economy on its shoulders, why the Millennials are perhaps the most financially disenfranchised generation, and why the labor force participation rate has collapsed in the past five years, as older workers rush back into the work force (thanks to ZIRP crushing the value of their savings) while young Americans chose to remain in university (where they can take remedial high school classes among other things) and out of the labor force in hopes of holding out a better job market (for the 6th year in a row).

However, since all college educations are most certainly not created equal, one outstanding item has been the debt breakdown by field of study, or major.

This is where the latest project and research paper from the Hamilton Project, which comes in handy. It examined earnings for approximately 80 different majors and as the NYT summarizes, allows people to look up typical debt burdens by major, over the first decade after college – which is when people tend to repay their loans.

The project authors note that for the graduate with typical debt level and earnings, payments under the standard 10-year repayment plan take up 14.1% of earnings in the first year, but gradually fall to only 6.5% of earnings in the tenth and final year. This repayment strategy, however, can place a particularly heavy burden on graduates from majors whose earnings start low before rising later in the career. For these students, college may not provide the cash flow needed to easily pay off loans in years immediately following graduation.

The study's four conclusions:

  • Debt burdens vary a lot across majors. In the sixth year of repayment, typical drama, music, religion and anthropology majors are still devoting more than 10 percent of their earnings to loan repayment. Other majors with fairly high early repayment burdens include philosophy, psychology and education. By contrast, engineering, computer science, economics and nursing majors are paying 6 percent or less of earnings in their sixth year.
  • In the first five years after earning a bachelor’s degree, the typical student receives a 65 percent raise. (This rise for an individual person, as she ages and becomes more experienced, is occurring even as pay growth across the economy is weak. Today’s 30-year-old is making more than he did at 25, but not much more than a 30-year-old was five years ago.) Unfortunately in recent years, wage increases have become deminimis, suggesting that this may no longer be uniformly true.
  • Many of the majors that pay the least directly out of college also have the biggest raises in the first few years. Graduates who major in therapy professions, nutrition or fine arts, for instance, all make less than $20,000 coming out of college, but all see their pay more than double in the first five years. A typical nurse, by contrast, makes almost $45,000 in the first year but receives about a 20 percent raise over the next five years.
  • The growth of earnings for most college graduates means that some of the discussion about student debt has the wrong focus. The overall amount of debt isn’t a problem for most graduates: The typical debt, for someone who has debt, is about $26,500, a manageable sum in most college-graduate careers. The problem for many, instead, is when they must repay their loans: early in their careers, when they’re making the least. In some majors, including health education and drama, the typical graduate with debt must devote an imposing 25 percent of her earnings in the first year out of college to loan repayment. “Repayment issues for the bulk of students,” Mr. Hershbein says, “are a matter of timing, not the amount of student debt.”

And since more and more students seek the safety of college to avoid the "hardship" of a job that pays less than your average Millennial expected, or though they were worth, and thus are forced to dilute their field of study and pick increasingly less monetizable majors, it becomes a Catch 22 whereby students increasingly find it impossible to overcome a staggering debt burden early on in their career, which in turn hinders normal career formation, and skews the economy adversely leading to such unintended consequences as the Fed looking at a sub-6% unemployment rate, while the slack-filled economy has rarely if ever been weaker and real wages are at same level as during the Lehman collapse.

Below is the student loan repayment calculator that shows the share of earnings necessary to service traditional loan repayment for 80 majors. Readers can choose or search from each of these majors, as well as change the size and features of the student loan using the selection boxes above. By default, loan features reflect the experience of a typical graduate borrower, and earnings include part-time workers and those who experience unemployment throughout the year (but exclude those with graduate degrees, as these individuals often accumulate additional debt).

Feel free to play around with the interest rate selector: it shows yet another reason why the regime simply can not afford to send interest rates levitating higher despite the optical effect it would have on expectations for an "economic recovery."

 

In retrospect it is clear why 24% of Millennials  (and rising) "Expect" student loan forgiveness, and why increasingly more private (and soon public) lenders are starting to grant it.

 

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Sun, 11/23/2014 - 15:18 | 5479391 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

There is a lot of truth to what you say. My experience and observations tell me that if you are going to be an employee the best thing is to find a start up and get in on the ground floor. Founders of companies are a lot different from the later Wharton School grads that take over. I call them "the professionals" and they are nowhere as good as their paychecks indicate and they make part of their living by limiting your paycheck.

I have posted it before but I assert there are three phases to a public corporation:

1. The Inspiration Phase. This is where the founders with a real passion and expertise start the company. It does not matter whether it is a better car or cup of coffee. They have a solid vision of what they can do and how to do it.

2. The Professional Phase. This is kind of where your post is. This is when the college pessimistic professionals take over. It is after the fist generation people are gone. They are organizational animals and work their way to the top. They are actually not that good at the business or running it and overpay themselves and their cronies. The long downhill slide begins as they exit with handsome severance packages.

3. The Salvage Phase. Finance guys take over. It's always finance. They don't even like the business, don't care what it is and do the severe cutting to get expenses below revenues. They are no good at the core business and eventually they will sell, merge or even close the doors as the final chapter.

Get on board during Phase I and then get out. Or, the very best is to be the inspiration entrepreneur. That is the most blessed of all by the economic gods and the rest of us are indebted to them for the businesses they start.

Sat, 11/22/2014 - 22:08 | 5477990 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Most kids would be better off joining the Mob or working on Wall Street.

I think working for the Mob would be more honest and socially responsible.

Sat, 11/22/2014 - 22:14 | 5477993 livefreediefree
livefreediefree's picture

Hey. Let's set up a new type of college or university. Forget the fucking old, fucking antiquated fucking liberal arts education. We would teach conservative arts; ie, how to survive and thrive.

The current higher educational system is broken. It doesn't teach; it indocrinates. It doesn't nurture critical thinking skills; it suppresses them. It creates sheep who willingly cede their individual liberties to an absolutist, authoritarian Progressive elite.

Think about it. Those who graduate from our university with a 2-year degree would have thousands of companies and corporations competing for them because we would teach them that capitalism and the free market are good, and that fucking Marxist, wealth-redistributionist Obama is bad. Those who graduate with a 4-year degree would experience the joys of an even faster fast track.

Our physical facilities would reside on lands owned by Native Americans. Thus, if any Progressive pieces of crap (I repeat myself) decide to invade our facility, we'd have a friendly justice system to dispense very quick and draconian punishment. If the SJW's or lesbian pricks protest, we'd go to the UN to have that body condemn the violation of -- what's the term? -- indigenous peoples. There is a hierarchy of special interest groups. If we work with a specific tribe, we might be able to have a gay-to-lesbian transexual as chief (but a conservative one. of course; we shouldn't cede any interest group to liberals), in which case we'd be unassailable.

Other such novel actualizations are possible. After all, we conservatives have had to learn to think; else, we'd still be unthinking liberals.

Within a few years, the Harvard campus will look like the South Bronx.

Sat, 11/22/2014 - 22:42 | 5478047 red1chief
red1chief's picture

A critical thinker who thinks "conservatives" are better than the worthless Democrats. This must be some sort of new-age critical thinking.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 00:18 | 5478218 livefreediefree
livefreediefree's picture

Damned straight. To become a conservative, one must think critically. The conservative political philosophy requires it.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 00:40 | 5478254 The9thDoctor
The9thDoctor's picture

To become a conservative, one must think critically.

*facepalm*

Going against an established system is what takes critical thought.

Believing in the value of established and traditional practices in politics and society (defintion of conservative) to me requires no critical thought whatsover.  Critical thought would be an enemy to such a system.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 14:07 | 5479196 livefreediefree
livefreediefree's picture

Thanks for a good negative example of critical thinking.

Please cite credible Web-based sources who cogently discuss critical thinking and who affirm your POV.

Anyone who thinks critically realizes that stereotypes impede critical thought:

Recognizing Ethnocentrism and Stereotypes
This critical thinking skill will challenge you to question commonly held beliefs and attitudes about identifiable groups. These attitudes--stereotypes--assume that all members of a group share the same set of characteristics. Through recognizing stereotypes and ethnocentrism, you will realize that your perceptions of a group are not always accurate and, in fact, often hinder their understanding of a topic.

Yes, Liberals stereotype conservatives:

Convinced that no intelligent, decent person could take conservatism seriously, liberals believe it is not necessary or even possible, when engaging conservative ideas, to go beyond diagnosing the psychological, moral or mental defects that cause people to espouse them.

You so stereotyped conservatives, by denying that conservatives can critically think.

Let me give you a challenge to test your critical thinking skills: Why is my ZH avatar a middle finger?

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 00:36 | 5478243 The9thDoctor
The9thDoctor's picture

The current higher educational system is broken. It doesn't teach; it indocrinates.

Higher education has been "indoctrinating" since its inception.  I don't know why you are implying it is something only current.  As for saying "it doesn't teach, it indoctrinates", that is like saying something didn't happen, it occurred.  It's like what is your point?

You might want to look into the history of universities and its relation and eventual separation from the Roman Catholic Church.  Look up the original definition of "doctor" in Webster's Dictionary.  What we think of doctor is actually its 2nd definition.

I read your posts, and think you mean well, but I find you using terms that you don't quite understand the etymology and the definition for, and it is like nails on a chalk board.

I'll let the other posters critique your use of the word "conservative".

Carry On.

 

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 03:37 | 5478459 Bro of the Sorr...
Bro of the Sorrowful Figure's picture

whatd you do to piss off the tyler's? say something about the j-o-o's?  i cant vote on any of your posts.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 04:09 | 5478484 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

only other timelords are able to vote on the doctor's posts, as i just did.

the green and red voting system that you think you see, is merely a representation of the intersection of its corresponding truth vectors and its social matrix in our space time continuum.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 08:21 | 5478579 Bro of the Sorr...
Bro of the Sorrowful Figure's picture

thanks for clearing that up

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 13:21 | 5479084 RichardP
RichardP's picture

.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 11:27 | 5478832 RKDS
RKDS's picture

Posts that start with a quote usually have the up/down arrows disabled for some reason.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 14:56 | 5479245 livefreediefree
livefreediefree's picture

9th:

You: Higher education has been "indoctrinating" since its inception.

I Googled "indocrination":

teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically.
synonyms: brainwash, propagandize, proselytize, reeducate  ... mold

So, it is your belief that, since prehistory, our institutions of higher learning have been propaganda factories? NP. I presume you're not enrolled in or employed by a college or university; therefore, you can think whatever you want, and so are in no danger of being expelled or ostracized.

You: I read your posts, and think you mean well, but I find you using terms that you don't quite understand the etymology and the definition for, and it is like nails on a chalk board.

I used "indocrinate" as "brainwash", and you consider this use invalid? Our Progressive-dominated colleges and universities do indocrinate. As George Will said re our campuses, "Diversity in everything except for thought". On every issue, Progressives declare there is one and only "correct" POV. All other opinions are anathema.

Re your comments about doctors, I prefer lucidity to obtuseness.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 09:35 | 5478629 g'kar
g'kar's picture

redchief, livefreediefree did not mention a party in his post, you assumed he was talking republicant vs demoncrat

 

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 20:27 | 5480039 livefreediefree
livefreediefree's picture

Thanks. While "liberal" + "Democrat" is redundant, "conservative" and "Republican" can mean different things.

For example, the scorecard from the Heritage Foundation , a mainstream (ie, non-wacko) conservative think tank, gives current Senate Democrats a score ranging from 0 to 13, where 100 would be a perfect conservative record. In comparison, 9 Republican Senators rate less than 50.

The average House/Senate score is even more telling. Average of House/Senate Democrats is 12/3, Republicans 62/64. Yes, Democrats are far more ideological than Republicans.

Sat, 11/22/2014 - 22:45 | 5478056 fleur de lis
fleur de lis's picture

We used to have widely available vocational schools but they were mostly closed. Does anyone know why? It makes no sense--they turned out good workers who got jobs right away and started building a new life.

Sat, 11/22/2014 - 22:51 | 5478065 Duc888
Duc888's picture

 

 

Yea, it's weird, I'm actually seeing a bunch of CNC programming jobs spring up locally even in this shit hole of a State.

Sat, 11/22/2014 - 22:59 | 5478073 fleur de lis
fleur de lis's picture

That's a good sign. They're bypassing all the snobby hype and fluff and going for a solid paycheck.

Sat, 11/22/2014 - 23:07 | 5478082 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

I know why.  They didn't close...they smelled the tempting odors wafting from the Free Fed Money gravy train and morphed into colleges. And surprise, surprise, the tuition quadrupled.

There is what used to be a technical/vocational school not too far from me that is now a university.  Still teaches the same stuff, such as auto mechanics, HVAC, plumbing, baking, etc., but now the students also have to complete such bullshit classes as technical writing (like, where's an auto mechanic going to use that in his daily routine?) to earn a degree instead of certification.  Another school near me used to be an art school and is now an art university, with such courses as math for art majors.  When the whole edifice comes crashing down, I bet these places morph back into vocational and technical schools in a heartbeat.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 00:22 | 5478226 fleur de lis
fleur de lis's picture

Well at least that explains where they all went. That Fed money gravy train is more like a narcotics train--easy access, highly addictive, and drags normalcy down to destructive conduct and eventual control. DC is the City of Evil.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 15:22 | 5479399 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Part of the Harvard or Ivy League system is making the contacts that will open doors for you. That would only fade slowly.

Sat, 11/22/2014 - 22:09 | 5477996 Its_the_economy...
Its_the_economy_stupid's picture

No debt is above bankruptcy. None. Government, education, medical....none.

Sat, 11/22/2014 - 22:25 | 5478020 silverstud
silverstud's picture

I agree but FIAT is bankrupt its all BS

 

Stacking physical gold and silver

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 10:46 | 5478733 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Bankruptcy requires valid Accounting.
Valid Accounting requires mark to market.
Mark to market has been outlawed (amount many other tenants).
Therefore there is no Bankruptcy.....

Sat, 11/22/2014 - 22:34 | 5478036 Seek_Truth
Seek_Truth's picture

STEM.

Paid for by the individual getting the "education".

That pays, and I am an example.

But, in my time, I paid my tuition (full-time college) while working full time in a furniture factory.

And, at this time, in my early twenties, I had a wife and a child who did not contribute to the family income.

But, that was in the mid- 1980's.

The oligarchs have grown ever greedy.

The "school of hard knocks" is the now.

The Apocalypse is the near future.

 

 

Sat, 11/22/2014 - 22:44 | 5478053 Hamm Jamm
Hamm Jamm's picture

Does it really matter which way you become a DEBT SLAVE !!      they'll get the money out of you no matter which way you turn..     Its completely RIGGED  !

 

CAPTAIN OBVIOUS

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 09:37 | 5478634 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

It is harder today, but you DON'T HAVE to be a debt slave.

Sat, 11/22/2014 - 22:56 | 5478070 RichardParker
RichardParker's picture

Perhaps they should tie the interest rate to the student's major and school of choice?

For example, loaning 50k over 4 years to a kid with decent grades who is living at home and commuting across town to go to a state school to get a civil engineering degree is a much better bet for a bank compared to a kid who is going to NYU for drama and borrowing 250k over 4 years.

In the really shitty cases such as the drama degree at NYU, don't write the loans.

 

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 09:35 | 5478631 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

If the government wasn't backstopping all of this shit, banks would be doing their job of evaluating these risks as you suggest.

Sat, 11/22/2014 - 23:01 | 5478077 arrowrod
arrowrod's picture

If you learn to program, you can hack your way into your debt contract and delete it.

By the way, you don't have to go to college to learn to program.

Sat, 11/22/2014 - 23:20 | 5478100 pupdog1
pupdog1's picture

Engineering isn't going to help much because of the massive H1B sellout, and nurses are being airlifted in from the Phillipines.

And they don't have to speak fucking English.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 02:17 | 5478387 Isotope
Isotope's picture

Also, doctors being airlifted in from India. "Must do the needful."

Sat, 11/22/2014 - 23:31 | 5478110 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

I don't like the term repayment, because you really aren't paying anything back.

Its counterfeit credit to begin with.

 

You don't repay a loan, you buy it and its not really a loan its more like, going to your local counterfeiter (local bank branch or corporation/agency linked with your alleged loan) and asking him to print you up some fresh bills.

Best profession will always be... become a banker and counterfeit money and let other assholes and suckers borrow and work to pay you for doing nothing, you hit print, they work, you profit.

Win.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 10:49 | 5478742 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

That's neat in theory, but that's not how it works...  your lender actually has to borrow it from somewhere too...  so yes, you're repaying your lender.  Now, from a macro perspective, yes, that money is created from thin air, but from a micro perspective, it actually is repayment.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 14:55 | 5479331 rejected
rejected's picture

And from a bullshit respective that is exactly what it is.... bullshit.

Sat, 11/22/2014 - 23:29 | 5478119 yellowsub
yellowsub's picture

$30k isn't a lot of money to repay.  There are immigrants who come here (legally) that doesn't speak English at all and can amass quite of sum of money ($100k+) by being frugal and saving!

Yes, they make sacrifices to lifestyles so cry me a river if you're able bodied and speak English better to some degree and chose to take the easy way out.  

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 04:03 | 5478480 bk1037
bk1037's picture

Kiss my ass. Walk a mile in their shoes befoer making such an arrogant stupid comment. If you do not know someone in many if not most ot these places, you are not going to be considered, period. 

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 04:10 | 5478485 bk1037
bk1037's picture

Deleted double

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 00:05 | 5478179 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Teacher? TEACHER? I have a question. No not that.

Would you please send a letter to Paul Krugman and ask him get Yellen to go up my FAFSA?

Thankyou very much

Q99X2

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 02:08 | 5478194 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  Tyler just gifted anyone with an idea? every Venture Capital firm. Yesterday.

 I'll repost the link if you assclowns aren't smart enough to find it.

  There's plenty of room at the top if you're willing to make the time. (love what you do)

 It's funny/y down-voter is so stupid?

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 04:31 | 5478500 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Shut up you asshole Yen Cross.  I have been suspicious that you are a decent guy after all.  I am an asshole too so we forget about arguing about that.  Some things you come up with are interesting.  I guess I can't see taking shots at the the Tylers because it is their website.  I went over to HuffPo for a couple of days and I did not post anything.  I was only observing.  This place may not be perfect but it is not that bad.    

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 00:10 | 5478196 Stevious
Stevious's picture

Bullshit.

I graduated 2003 with a nursing degree.

Now 11 years later I still owe ~29k.  Indeed, my pay rate has gone up.

But.........nobody will hire me because of that.  Why pay $30/hour when you can get a new grad at $23/hour?

Shortage of RN's...again bullshit.  Try glut.

I opted for ten years of low payment and then the rest at a higher payment.  So this month my student loan payment triples.  And now, after ten years of experience, and highly qualified, the most I can get is a part-time job.  The full-time jobs go to the new grads.

Oh, and soon there will be a new flood of H1-B nurses (I am betting) who will work for $18/hour.

I've never missed a single payment, but for crying out loud, the idea that after so many years your earnings will rise is just bullshit.  If this is not the case as an RN it's not the case for most degree expcept certain engineering degrees.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 00:46 | 5478262 The9thDoctor
The9thDoctor's picture

I graduated 2003 with a nursing degree.

Now 11 years later I still owe ~29k.  Indeed, my pay rate has gone up.

+1 to stevious

It's nice to read comments from people livng in the real world.  I read a lot of BS in these comments sections, and your post actually describes what is actually going on.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 01:53 | 5478359 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

I suspected the glut would happen with the push, back in the 90's/00's for nurses. Remember, the imminent shortage of nurses that we faced?

I chose my major by reading the Los Angeles Times and counting how many help wanted ad categories there were.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 14:17 | 5479213 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

You should look in Alaska. Where I live, medical folks make BANK. We literally have the highest medical costs in the ENTIRE country. There are actual shortages up here, particularly medical, engineering, accounting, and similar professional skillsets. If you think about it, the folks who grow up here have to LEAVE to get those skills, and once they are down south they tend to not come back, thus the shortage.

I lined up a job, packed my car, drove 3k miles, and ferried the last 1k. The cost of living is high, but things are working out for me (I am an engineering/computer type). Life is not fun here for those who don't have professional gigs.

We are heading into a deflationary death spiral. If you don't suck it up now and get used to going where the work/pay is, the pain is only going to get worse until you do.

Regards,

Cooter

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 15:01 | 5479355 Handful of Dust
Handful of Dust's picture

One problem I see is that hospitals don't want to pay what a nurse is worth. It's a shame. Yes, there's a shortage but they simply force one nurse to do the job of two ... then three... and so on. It's no wonder so many patients receive the wrong med when nurses are overworked  ... imo.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 00:13 | 5478207 ekm1
ekm1's picture

Oh booooy.

Zerohedge is publishing Hamilton Project study? Bob Rubin's baby?

 

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 02:48 | 5478416 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

EKM? Really You're quoting " western philosopy"?

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 16:24 | 5479532 ekm1
ekm1's picture

YC

If you make a serious comment, I'll reply.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 00:17 | 5478215 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Given any reasonably grounded view of the future, the best personal alternative is to endeavour to enjoy life by going to school for as long as possible on student loans, taking whatever one likes to take, regardless of whether that is practical.

Any person with a functioning intuitive view of the future should expect that to be totally screwed up, while there is nothing they could realistically do to prevent that happening. Therefore, for anyone who enjoys being some sort of intellectual, and learning for its own sake, student loans are a way to enjoy a higher quality of life: a high brow way to "eat, drink and be merry, because tomorrow we die." ... Go to school on borrowed money for as long as possible, while not worrying about the future, since the future is going to be totally screwed up, no matter whatever one might try to do about that!

There is no way to prepare for civilization collapsing into crazy chaos, as well as no way to be prepared to maybe take advantage of revolutionary opportunities that may then arise. Meanwhile, there is nothing else to actually do by participating inside of the established systems which would not actually amount to assisting things to get even worse, faster ... At least an individual enjoying their life by studying something that they like to study is only minimally making things deteriorate ... which is probably the only thing that they could actually do inside of a society that is already terminally sick and insane, while becoming more so at an exponential rate ...

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 10:52 | 5478751 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

The "I would gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" syndrome.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 18:10 | 5479769 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

There is indeed a collective RaceToTheBottom due to everyone being drafted into the banksters' "Wimpy Syndrome."

Of course, I do NOT agree with that, from an idealized perspective, that the established systems, where student loans are "money" made out of nothing as debt by private banks, is one of the most offensive examples of that debt slavery system destroying the future.

However, my comment above was written with the presumption that most people could NOT do anything practical about that, and therefore, were reduced to their own best personal strategy, given that they were born into a debt slavery system, which had already generated numbers which had become debt insanities.

Of course, student loans are merely more "money" made out of nothing, as debts, inside the overall MAD Money As Debt system, which automatically becomes more criminally insane every day! THE MOST IMPORTANT THING ABOUT STUDENT LOANS IS THAT "MONEY" IS MADE OUT OF NOTHING BY PRIVATE BANKS.

Of course, that is the "Wimpy Syndrome" amplified to an astronomical size! Of course, that is NOT a good thing, overall. However, after wasting several decades of my life attempting to resist that kind of monetary system, I have been forced to face the facts that our society is terminally sick and insane, while nobody can now prevent its MAD self-destruction. Given that realistic assessment (which I presumed many people intuitively know), then an individual is like someone in a hospice, waiting to die, taking palliative care, to cope with their suffering.

Since our society IS terminally sick and insane, I sympathize with people who would do as I suggested above, by taking out the maximum student loans that they could, for as long as they could, while watching and waiting for the civilization around them to collapse into crazy chaos, in ways that they could do nothing practical to prevent happening anyway ...

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 20:25 | 5480110 PT
PT's picture

RM:  ++++++

They can repossess your house, they can repossess your toys, but they can NOT repossess your knowledge and experience.  When you refuse the debt, you also refuse the knowledge and experience.

Okay, they can "repossess" your knowledge.  With a baseball bat.  We'll try and keep quiet on that little flaw ...

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 10:53 | 5478752 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Dupe

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 00:16 | 5478217 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

i tell people i went to college with Mike Judge, the creator of Beavis and Butthead, King of the Hill, Office Space. I was in the visual arts department, never saw the guy, he was a physics major. wish i had done that, gives you something to think about while youre drinking a beer and wondering wtf

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 01:14 | 5478304 Arthur Schopenhauer
Arthur Schopenhauer's picture

Whatever happened to finding out who you are, what you want to do with your life, and then pursuing it? If you do what you want with your own life and love the work you do, then doesn't that have value?

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 20:32 | 5480137 PT
PT's picture

The trick is to make the thing you love survivable before you go bankrupt.  I love riding motorbikes very, very fast, but I can't imagine making a living out of it before I go bankrupt.  - Not saying it can't be done, just that I can't figure out how to make it happen.

My other interests turn out to be very capital / knowledge intensive.  Takes a lot of knowledge before I can turn a profit.  In theory I am working towards those goals.  In reality, I have all but stalled.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 01:14 | 5478305 omi
omi's picture

In Russia, they pay you to go to university + free rezidence in many cases.

And the real joke is that people consider students from US schools to be of better quality, while Russian universities offer far better technical education. 4 Year cs programs tend to be 5 years of non-stop study. Many students don't deliver pizzas or work in coffe shops/clothing sores as minimum wage slaves. You simply don't have time for that.

If someone could translate this from Russian, it would be great.

http://youtu.be/dCg8GmnWFQk?t=32m25s

around 32min mark, they discuss hours spent on different math/science courses from tech universities.

Presentation was very interseting overall.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 04:16 | 5478487 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

It might take a little time for that translation and I am sure that it will not happen even given my inside track.  You are in trouble to some degree already on translations.  I can tell what Russian WOMEN are saying but they do not speak like Russian men.  They have a feminine and masculine version of their language.  They will switch back and forth and totally fuck you right in the ass in trying to figure out exactly what is being said.  You either know that language or you do not.  

 

I will be interested if my Russian speakers around here can do the job.  I know my wife can translate that but the question is why would she want to?  I married no fool for a woman.  The best you will get is two sentences if after 14 years of me knowing her.  We shall see.      

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 16:58 | 5479624 omi
omi's picture

Are you an ELIZA clone?

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 12:42 | 5479001 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Well, the translation results are in.  The translation goes like this, no, no and no some more.  Don't shoot the messenger here but Russians say that your link is complete bullshit.  In fact they even fragged me by saying, "You never send bullshit but you did this time so why?" and "I did not even understand what that asshole was talking about for a half an hour and it is a two hour video so I quit watching."  Not encouraging words.  More was said about Russian education and got myself into a thrilling lecture session about how it really is in Russia.

I actually copied your post verbatim and sent that.  I knew you never had a chance to begin with but I humored you.  The Russians saw it was from a ZeroHedge poster and rolled their eyes.  If Russians are anything they are pragmatic to the point of extreme cynicism.  That is why it so easy to pick apart Russian imposters.  Anyone who knows anything about the Russian people knows that 99% of Russians think that 99% of everyone else is full of complete bullshit.  That is how Russians operate.  The other thing that stand out is that those who pose as Russians do not realize the there are so many cultural differences there that no one really actually gets along with each other.  For sure it is not a homogenous culture.  

I respect the Russian culture and since it is the predominant language spoken in my household I think I have some ground to stand on.  I think that Russians like the buttlove for Russia that is so rampant in the West but that only want you at arms length because they can not trust you.  They are not in love with Putin either.  One great way to not get along a Russian is to say that you love their .gov system.  That just will not cut the cabbage with them.  That is not the Russian way.  No language has more curse that I know of than Russian and there is a reason why.  Many of those curse words are not translatable at all.  I would say Russians feel as though they are being patronized by sudden attacks of Western buttlove and they do not like it.            

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 01:15 | 5478306 reader2010
reader2010's picture

"If history shows anything, it is that there’s no better way to justify relations founded on violence, to make such relations seem moral, than by reframing them in the language of debt—above all, because it immediately makes it seem that it’s the victim who’s doing something wrong."

— David Graeber, Debt: The First 5,000 Years

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 01:22 | 5478323 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Fast food employment will begin to require a MBA. No kidding.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 02:48 | 5478417 RKDS
RKDS's picture

That's about all an MBA can handle.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 08:55 | 5478600 ncdirtdigger
ncdirtdigger's picture

There will be no fast food employment.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 01:56 | 5478362 Joe A
Joe A's picture

In this world it doesn't matter what you know but who you know.

 

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 02:01 | 5478369 MarcusAurelius
MarcusAurelius's picture

Well let's see when I got my degree back when the dinosaurs were still around in 88' my tuition per year was about 1/3 what it is now. Anyone graduating in the 70's, well it was about 1/2 what I paid. Then this super cycle of inflation came along jacking the shit out of everything (houses, cars, salaries, taxes, education, food and just about everything else you can think of). Of course at the same time came all these entitlements and government programs, pensions, unions and all this other shit that well.....someone has to pay for. Everyone wanting "moar". 

Now of course universites simply couldn't simply let this free for all go untapped either. They expanded their staff, uped their salaires, created all these high priced athletic programs (because of course school is about football, basketball, hockey, etc.) with their billionaire coaches, and borrowed cheap money to build ever more million/billion dollar building infrastructure which in some cities resembles a city in itself. 

Well ladies and gentlemen, someone has to pay for this. That someone is the student or the private sector or of course the government/taxes. The trillion dollar industry that produces "fuck all". Much like the big banks it is simple TBTF now right. A SDI (systemically dangerous institution). 

I think Matt Damon said it best in "Good Will Hunting" almost 2 decades ago.

"In about 50 year time your gonna start to do some thinking on your own and you're gonna come up with 2 certainties in life. 1 - Don't do that and 2 - Ya just dropped a 150K on an education that you coulda got for a buck fifty late charge at your local library". 

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 02:05 | 5478372 barroter
barroter's picture

Get a degree in bankstering or cocaine delivery.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 11:01 | 5478776 Lanka
Lanka's picture

Pimping also pays well, with benefits.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 02:05 | 5478373 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Be/ Jeebus Please NO Turkey neck?

  I got lucky

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 02:22 | 5478392 Captain Obvious.
Captain Obvious.'s picture

Apprenticeships are a contract between employer and employee. The employer gets cheap labour but has to educate the apprentice.

Employers have become deadbeats. They want the cheap labour but the employee has to educate himself.

Anyway, who remembers being a teenage boy? All prick and ribs, with frontal cortex in the process of metamorphasis. How the hell do we expect life changing rational descions from such a creature?

It is far better to acknowledge that humans take an awefully long time to mature and let the silly young men wonder around aimlessly until they are through the stage.

Perhaps we might be able to get them to tidy up their rooms. Nah, Forget it. Silly me.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 02:34 | 5478401 Atomizer
Sun, 11/23/2014 - 02:36 | 5478408 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Well bitchez/ I'm tired

   Who discovered exextricity?

Ecclesiastes

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 03:48 | 5478442 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

I see that my alma mater is listed.  Besides the fact that the Interweb did not really exist at the time I had to make to do.  Namely that consisted of seeing how many women I could get naked as well as how many drunken bar fights I could get myself into or what drugs I could try.  All of that sort of worked together in a way.  Somehow, I managed to graduate and pay off my stupident loans after about eight years.

I really do not want my children to waste their time with that shit per se.  Maybe I really did not waste my time but plenty of time was wasted.  About the only thing that I learned in university was that was that you could... well, nevermind.  My daughter is growing older now and is getting lippy with me.  I had to pull her aside away from her mother and I told that it is pointless to lie to me because I already know is going on.  Why?  Because I probably already did it.  Did I really need a college education to do that?  Of course not.

I met a lot of douchebags in college.  Wow.  Since then, I have met a lot MOAR douchebags without even having to pay for it.  There is no end to the douchebaggery.  I guess college is a life experience but it is not worth the price of debt you cannot easily dispose of.  To this day, not one employer has even checked with my alma mater to see if I even matriculated and that would have been 15 years ago.(I called and asked)  Really?  Then what is the degree actually worth?

Maybe you can just say you have any degree and no one will do any due diligence to even bother to check.  If so, than what was the point of all of it in the first place?                  

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 04:52 | 5478510 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

I think Google wanted a copy of my transcript, when I applied at the end of college. So did Aerojet, and a couple of other companies. Fuck that, I'm not giving you my transcript.That is one extreme. On the other, you have what you describe: you go through this whole ordel called college, likely to come out with a bundle of debt, and when you get your job, no one gives a shit about college details except to pay lip service in an interview. It didn't matter.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 11:57 | 5478907 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

I agree.  No one has ever asked me what courses I took in college.  I am glad they don't in a way because I would try to find the nicest looking gal for a lab partner and see if I could get in her pants.  Sometimes it worked and sometimes not.  Not my best investment.     

 

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 14:40 | 5479281 rejected
rejected's picture

Called paperflation. Just like currency and money the more there is the less each unit (diploma) is worth. Happened with 8th grade diplomas, then high school diplomas and now college diplomas.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 04:40 | 5478505 trader1
trader1's picture

quality and relevant education should be provided at no financial burden to the student who wants to learn.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 08:53 | 5478598 ncdirtdigger
ncdirtdigger's picture

Yes, teachers should teach for free.

Tue, 11/25/2014 - 01:53 | 5485028 trader1
trader1's picture

no.

they should get a "living income" just like everyone else should.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 09:00 | 5478602 Hey Assholes
Hey Assholes's picture

So you believe in slavery.

Someone needs to adminster, teach, maintain, clean, heat, cool, provide energy, food, etc.... for your vision of utopia.

Forcing others to work for another is slavery.

Totalitarian fuckhead.

Tue, 11/25/2014 - 01:54 | 5485030 trader1
trader1's picture

i love how you read so much into a comment.

have you thought about becoming a political strategist?

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 12:21 | 5478958 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

That's why we have public libraries. 

Too bad very few are still able to read.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 14:33 | 5479257 rejected
rejected's picture

Sorry Charlie,,, We are fresh out of other peoples money and in debt to a tune of 18 trillion. Any suggestion on where the funding should come from.

The productive jobs that enabled these 'kids' to pay back their loans have been shipped overseas. Jobs that might help them still left are being taken by Obama's army of illegals.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 06:00 | 5478528 basho
basho's picture
  • "The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education."

a. einstein

few more for ya:

http://rescomp.stanford.edu/~cheshire/EinsteinQuotes.html

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 07:41 | 5478557 Space Animatoltipap
Space Animatoltipap's picture

Everyone engineer or factory worker. Long live dark, degraded "1984".

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 08:08 | 5478572 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

How many of these courses actually teach students to think critically and to think laterally?

Then again maybe we are expecting too much from education when morals have slid too far for education to actually reverse the damage.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 12:24 | 5478966 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

All the fields that teach critical thinking skills are on the left side of the pay grade graph; while all the fields that teach people to think mechanically are on the right. 

But I'm sure that's just a coincidence.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 08:27 | 5478581 oudinot
oudinot's picture

I took history and philosophy in university-University of Toronto-30 years ago knowing I was not going to make any money out of these studies

Instead of a good job, I got something much, much better: understanding.

I don't care if t cost me ten times as much now-I would do it again.

'The unexamined life is not worth living'

 

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 08:43 | 5478592 Hey Assholes
Hey Assholes's picture

Who paid for your existence? 

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 09:27 | 5478624 The Blank Stare
The Blank Stare's picture

Don't be such an asshole

 

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 14:58 | 5479335 oudinot
oudinot's picture

I did.

I started my own painting company-I knocked on doors in the most affluent parts of Toronto for business- in the summers and  did not take one dollar of debt from anyone or institution.

What I learned through my studies allowed me to work for myself.

Learning to read, write and comprehend comlex subjects-along with abundant personal energy- is all one needs in life to be successful.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 08:49 | 5478593 Farqued Up
Farqued Up's picture

Yeah, and I cannot show you a parent with 20 kids that doesn't love every single one. They have literally fucked themselves away from the dinner table.

People like that should take one single course by correspondence, Rationalization 101. A person doesn't need to enroll in school to read books.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 10:43 | 5478732 tvdog
tvdog's picture

I don't think there is anybody with 20 kids who did not adopt a good number of those (and there are subsidies for that).

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 15:24 | 5479406 oudinot
oudinot's picture

Unless you are a genius, like Matt Damon's charachter in the movie, yes, you do need to go to school to know what books to read, listen to experienced Profs   exegesis on the tomes as well as  cross pollinating ideas with fellow scholars.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 14:27 | 5479234 rejected
rejected's picture

"I don't care if t cost me ten times as much now-I would do it again."

Yea but the new grads are costing.... us. That said, it would be well worth it had the USPTB not shipped out the prosperity and what could not be shipped out was shipped in. 

But with the present situation only the college's are making out.

 

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 15:02 | 5479348 oudinot
oudinot's picture

rejected-you missed the whole point.

Maybe you should have studied four years of humanities; you would be much more intellectually equipped to handle complex subjects.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 08:33 | 5478582 EemieMeanieMinieMoe
EemieMeanieMinieMoe's picture

Endeavor to persevere..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsL6mKxtOlQ

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 09:38 | 5478635 pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

We are forgetting the college books scam also. One class = $500 in useless textbooks

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 09:51 | 5478644 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

buy and sell used books on-line.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 14:31 | 5479247 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

The university/publisher tend to version the books very frequently. Can't do problems from an old book if the chapter question's numbers/details changed. Also, it is more and more common to have an online component that goes with the book. This is a limited time paid subscription to the publishers website where coursework is completed/graded.

They dilligently work to destroy the second hand book market.

Regards,

Cooter

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 14:36 | 5479274 EndTheIllusion
EndTheIllusion's picture

and to privatize access to knowledge as was so highlighted by the persecution of Aaron Swartz. The great mind was taken down, and the ambitious small minds prevailed. 

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 09:37 | 5478636 pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

We are forgetting the college books scam also. One class = $500 in useless textbooks

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 09:51 | 5478645 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

Yes, major scam. New editions come out every couple of years with some new photos.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 11:06 | 5478787 Lanka
Lanka's picture

The prof is the author, and its mandatory to have the latest edition.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 09:46 | 5478641 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

My online class on "Modern Piracy in the 21st Century" should pay off handsomely.

Other than some low budget competition from overseas growth centers like Somalia and Indonesia, it's a wide open market with terrific growth potential.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 10:03 | 5478662 Ewtman
Ewtman's picture

Student debt may be the next bubble to burst. But the re-inflated real estate and consumer credit bubbles are just as ready and set to pop...

 

http://www.globaldeflationnews.com/consumer-credit-bubble-on-the-verge-o...

 

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 10:34 | 5478702 lindaamick
lindaamick's picture

Maybe if students were liberally educated (traditional definition) they would not succumb to the rapacious capitalistic value system presented in our current financialized world. 

Maybe liberally educated citizens would demand a more egalitarian society with a far greater percentage of citizens enjoying a secure life. 

Merely trying to save themselves in our current environment by furthering financialization simply perpetuates the status quo.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 15:03 | 5479357 oudinot
oudinot's picture

lindaamick-you are 100% correct.

Thank you.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 10:48 | 5478727 tvdog
tvdog's picture

Other countries don't do it this way. Study a foreign language in high school, participate in a foreign exchange program, and go to college overseas. It's cheaper than going to school in the U.S., and you have the advantage of being in a better labor market when you graduate.

Other nations consider an educated citizenry to be a public good. (But they have testing and do not admit everyone to college.)

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 11:01 | 5478771 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Debt jubilee is the easiest solution for them to do.

Therefore they will do so.

To do otherwise would require too much truth....

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 11:18 | 5478809 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

Our local so-called community "college" costs a fortune, teachers "teach" by videos. If/when the vids can be viewed free online, goodbye "community colleges", benefits and pensions.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 11:32 | 5478842 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

Early Italian Renaissance basket weaving from 1330- 1450 in Florence should be in hot demand. Well worth $98k student loan.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 11:33 | 5478843 Ewtman
Sun, 11/23/2014 - 11:48 | 5478879 BendGuyhere
BendGuyhere's picture

"Man is born to live, not to prepare for life." Pasternak, 'Dr. Zhivago'

Our cultural fetish with 'higher education' is coming to an end, much like our fetish with 'finance'.

By age 18 you are a complete man or woman. Get to work, start a business/learn a trade and avoid the debt trap, cubicle rot in a white collar 'career'. Believe me, you will continue learning, life will see to that. If you truly thirst for knowledge there are things made out of paper called books. You can get them very cheaply everywhere. The world's finest universities now offer open source courses online (Harvard anyone?), you can educate youself for free.

If your family owns a business or farm, even better! Dive in! Start a family while you're young.

American universities now have an air of hopelessness about them. Drugs, alcohol, debt, football and political correctness. It's all so useless.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 11:54 | 5478893 xavi1951
xavi1951's picture

Nobody has mentioned the salaries and pensions of the Profs.  You know the people that rant to students about wallstreet and the rich.....

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 12:46 | 5479017 ThirdCoastSurfer
ThirdCoastSurfer's picture

Have you seen the price of beer these days? Kids today don't drink the cheap stuff, it's Stella or go home. Few drive "clunkers", either, and full insurance coverage at that age is steep.   No wonder they are so far in debt. 

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 13:07 | 5479060 Chris Rofot
Chris Rofot's picture

I'm guessing a Philosophy or English Literature major would not fare well.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 14:06 | 5479166 DipshitMiddleCl...
DipshitMiddleClassWhiteKid's picture

im one of the lucky millenials with no debt

 

 

i dont know what to tell younger kids cause the trades jobs pay shit and are garbage jobs..and so are most college graduate jobs.

 

i have one friend who is a welder who is making good money and another who is a mechanic, at his last job they started bringing in illegals to do his job and he was union. scary stuff

 

 

there are very few good paying entry level corpo jobs that provide anything and those usually go to those who have parents in corporate america.

 

if you're a blue collar kid, the only way you aren't going to be swinging a hammer on top of a roof is if you're a math genius and really play the system hard cause its SUPR FUCKING TOUGH to get into the corporate world out of college.

 

 

~dipshitmiddleclasswhitekid

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 15:14 | 5479384 Handful of Dust
Handful of Dust's picture

The country, it’s Yutes, and work ethic are very screwed up.

 

 I had some yard work needed to be done so I offered the 18 y.o. school football kid next door $18/hour and he said yes. After one hour he lays down the tools, comes up to me and says, “it’s too hard for him.” So he drives off to the school gym to lift weights for the rest of the afternoon in front of the cheerleaders.

 

Ok ... so I go to the Mexicans outside of Home Depot. No one would do it for less then $30/hour, cash, non-reported.

 

Forget that.

 

I mention the situation to a 38 y.o. secretary where I work, a single mother of two, who jumps at the chance and says she’ll bring her 34 y.o. sister. They came out on Saturday and in one day finished the entire job. Not only did I pay them each $18/hour cashola but I gave them a big tip as well as many thanks.

 

 

It’s a screwed up world.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 14:31 | 5479249 EndTheIllusion
EndTheIllusion's picture

I am not sure I would want to live in a society that did not have deep thinkers and creative people (who seem to be taking the majors mentioned). Do we really want to live in a nation totally run by engineers, mathematicians, and economists? perhaps that is why we are in the mess we are in at this time? 

Our system needs to be rewarding those who wish to think outside of the box and use their creativity to purposes other than simply the profit motive. 

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 16:47 | 5479601 lotsoffun
lotsoffun's picture

end the illusion- i wish we could.  we have deep thinkers, thanks to the think tank universities.  really deep ones.

for example - ben bernake and paul krugman.  or and janet yellen.  and let's not forget - the best -  big bad obola obama.

a couple of nobel fcking prizes in that list also.  (sarcasm for those that did not get it.  god bless you, if you love those people).

our 'system' doesn't need to reward anybody.  our 'system' has to stop enabling the stupid, step back, stop pushing the creative people down and let them rise to the top.

this culture glorfies violence and stupidity.  and sloth.  it encourages it, and pays for it.

that has to end.  people need to get their fat asses back in gear, and start doing things and taking care of themselves and their communities.

PS - turn off the television.

 

 

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 14:36 | 5479271 I Write Code
I Write Code's picture

This is all garbled.  I'll bet half the debt is from kids who go to these for-profit mills to get a certificate, associates, or bachelors in crap like massage therapy.  It's a con from the start, the school gets $200k in government money and the kids get the debt.  Some of the schools are VERY profitable, so of course Uncle Sugar will step in and "forgive" the debt.

Not to deny that some of the for-profit schools don't have worthwhile programs, but just that they are very non-economic compared to most state schools, and the worthwhile stuff is accompanied by massive financial fraud.

So it's not education as such, it's not even the English majors, it's corruption, pure and simple.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 15:47 | 5479459 bilejones
bilejones's picture

" very non-economic compared to most state schools"

 

Perhaps because they are not leeching off the State taxpayers.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 15:00 | 5479345 TVP
TVP's picture

This article fails to mention the fact that in 2011, all federal student loans were effectively "forgiven".

This was done by means of income-based repayment, whereby those who qualify only have to pay up to 10% of disretionary income.  For millions of millenials, their income is a big fat 0, so their payments correspond to that.  After 20 to 25 years, the remaining balance will be forgiven.  

This was necessary to prevent the student loan bubble from bursting, creating another financial crisis.  It never ceases to amaze, the ways in which they keep this house of cards from falling.  Of course, it will only make the final crash that much more epic when the day of reckoning finally cannot be avoided.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 16:52 | 5479610 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Actually, it only prevents the bubble from bursting right now. It defers the problem to the future.

Do this across government and "Voila!" you get a $17trillion dollar national debt.

Amazing how the same methods keep getting used.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 15:26 | 5479409 Graph
Graph's picture

80 grand a year architect at his job site visit cracks jokes with laborers while  joining the food line at the "Roach Coach" truck (given that he's a normal guy). Same evening he may be invited by his Millionaire Client as a guest of honor, while 250 grand a year plumbing contractor is sent home, properly paid though...

! know, I know... a Plumber can rent Entire Restaurant that evening and go wild with his buddies, but that is beside the point what I am trying to say.

Just a thought.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 18:29 | 5479857 vegas
vegas's picture

For all you potential Philosophy majors out there, some advice; here is the only "philosophy" you need to know [and in the process save yourself from debt]. CASH IS KING AND ALWAYS WILL BE. Start trading or be a worker bee for Emperor Goebbels and his ilk; the choice is yours and yours alone.

 

www.traderzoo.mobi

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 19:41 | 5480017 Lea
Lea's picture

"typical drama, music, religion and anthropology majors are still devoting more than 10 percent of their earnings to loan repayment. Other majors with fairly high early repayment burdens include philosophy, psychology and education. By contrast, engineering, computer science, economics and nursing majors are paying 6 percent or less of earnings in their sixth year."

So, out with thought, culture, art, the transmission of knowledge and beauty, in with cold money-making careers.

America is getting worse and worse by the day. A nation of marketers peddling Coca Cola, hamburgers, apps and iPhones to each other... one wonders how much lower it can fall.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 21:19 | 5480251 Creepy A. Cracker
Creepy A. Cracker's picture

I didn't realize that engineering was a "cold money-making career."  All of the engineers whom I know and work with do it because they are technical geeks and love it.  They even have to think and be creative when designing products.

Sure, there are a handful who do it for the money.  But they normally really SUCK at engineering so they don't last long - unless they're in the government, where incompetence is rewarded.

Mon, 11/24/2014 - 19:06 | 5482319 Creepy A. Cracker
Creepy A. Cracker's picture

LOL!  Some ZHers hate engineers who design power systems, aircraft, cars, farm implements, medical devices, buildings - you know, the stuff that makes an economy actually prosper.  Jealous over the pay "inequality" I guess.  They're kind of like joooooooo bankers, correct?

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