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The 5th Amendment: Why A Law Professor Says "Don't Talk To Police"
Submitted by Mike Krieger via Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,
In my recent interview, “Serfdom is the New Normal” – Talkin’ Oligarch Blues with Perpetual Assets, I mentioned the dangers of talking to the police in light of the recent epidemic of shady civil asset forfeitures. What many people fail to realize, is that you aren’t obligated to have casual conversations with police when you have been pulled over. In fact, such conversations are often used solely to manufacture an excuse for further action against you. For example, take this excerpt from the recent Washington Post article, Highway Seizure in Iowa Fuels Debate about Asset-Forfeiture Laws:
Simmons said he was issuing a warning for the failure to signal. After handing over the paperwork, he said the stop was over. Then he asked the driver, Newmerzhycky, if he had “time for just a couple quick questions.”
Police who specialize in highway interdiction use casual conversations to avoid triggering legal questions about the length of stops. If the conversations are consensual, courts consider the added delay to be legal.
During a routine highway stop for a minor traffic violation, I can’t think of a good reason why it would ever be in your interest to continue chatting with a cop.
Highway police are trained to use the chats as an opportunity to take stock of alleged “indicators” of criminal activity, including nervous speech patterns, a pulsing carotid artery and inconsistencies in stories. They are also trained to seek permission for warrantless searches.
It’s really sad that it has come to this. It would be much better to live in a society where people could have enough trust in police to chat casually with them. The more police engage in bad behavior, the less the public will want to engage.
The trickier part about all of this, is that it isn’t clear what a reasonable length for a stop is. Here’s the Washington Post on the issue, from the article, Waiting for the Dogs During Police Traffic Stops:
Imagine a police officer pulls over a car for a routine traffic violation, such as speeding or driving with a broken taillight. During the stop, the officer develops a hunch that there may be drugs in the car. He contacts a local K-9 unit and requests a trained drug-sniffing dog; when the unit arrives, another officer will walk the dog around the car to see if it alerts to drugs inside. Although the Supreme Court has held that the use of the dog is not a search, the length of a warrantless stop must be reasonable. The officer can’t delay the driver forever.
This raises a question of Fourth Amendment law that has led to a lot of lower court litigation: If the officer has no reasonable suspicion that drugs are in the car — that is, he only has a hunch — how long can the traffic stop be delayed before the dog arrives and checks out the car?
Lower courts have generally answered the question by adopting a de minimis doctrine. Officers can extend the stop and wait for the dogs for ade minimis amount of time. But exactly how long is that?
Just yesterday, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit held in United States v. Rodriguez that seven to eight minutes is de minimis. On the other hand, the Supreme Court of Nevada held a few months ago in State v. Beckman that nine minutes is too long.
With all that in mind, I strongly suggest watching the following video with almost 5 million views of Law Professor James Duane, simply titled: Don’t Talk to Police.
Disclaimer: I am not an attorney and obviously none of this should be taken as legal advice. It is meant to provide you with some information and you should do your own research (laws vary by state).
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a public service announcement from Chris Rock...
http://youtu.be/QR465HoCWFQ
Mister Policeman is not your friend. He is your enemy. He is not protecting and serving you. He is attacking you. If you say anything except "I am invoking my 5th amendment rights", and then shut up totally you are toast. If he says "what do you mean" then just repeat "I am invoking my 5th Amendment rights". He can play stupid all he wants but he knows exactly what you are saying and he is defenseless as long as you say nothing else. Spend as long as you need to spend while he tries to get you to talk. Just keep repeating "I am invoking my 5th Amendment rights" and eventually he will go away. If you let him intimidate you then you are toast.
It would be nice if seeing a policeman or his car gave an innocent citizen a safe cozy feeling. Instead he feels fear and loathing.
Itwas not always thus.
The cops today are not being trained to protect and serve the citizen, they are being trained to protect and serve the gooberment.
To Punish and Enslave!
To intimidate and humiliate
Some NOT all of you people are like Pavlovs dogs. I have NO love for law enforcement.
Matter of factly 70-80% of altercations could be solved without Law Enforcement. The problem is that people have lost the abilty to make cognizant rational decisions for " THEMSELVES".
When situations become problems they run to Johnny Law. If you want to be treated like adults then start acting like adults, and quit running to your .gov saviors when you stub your toes.
This article is so outdated. The bottom line is if you get pulled over, you're fucked. 5th Amendment? Please. Like that shit even matters anymore.
This. I used to travel thorughout the US and internationally for work. I'm very local now. I used to always have my phone with me. It's been non-functional for weeks.
I knew I had to leave NYC when I got stopped by a thugcop in Central Park @ 1:20 AM. Who knew the damn Park ever closed, and good luck finding those little green oval 'Park closes @ 1 AM' signs after dark. The guy was trolling so hard, trying to incite me.
Never again.
Goes to prison and lose the ass of the folds.
Will fight and fuck, dies or back maimed physically or psychologically.
Killing a person is easy, it is difficult to live with it, can believe.
It's not something I Lily Network.
: - /
the otherside of this is what happens when you DONT talk to the police. that sets off all sorts of bells and whistles. the difficulty for most people is they add something more than the question. most of you know the procedure in a DUI check. the suspect thinks, i have to walk a straight line, while the policeman says i asked you to take ten steps and you took twelve... bingo... you cant follow directions. not much different in a criminal case, answer the question, (or not) but under no circumstances offer additional information. and i dont know is a perfectly legimate answer. short answer to a long video
I have always faked having the flu. I cough and complain out how sick I'm feeling and how "the kids are all puking the last three days and the little one has a tempeture. I just had to get some more Pepto from Walgreen's". And grimace and play the part. No one likes to be around sick people or catch coodies. Adding, "I feel like I'm passing barbed wire the diarhea is so bad." always helps too. Never fails. They send you on your way quickly.
Now, the cops could 'quaratine' you for 21 days. Ebola precautions. For your own safety. . .
Once when I was 18 I peeled out of a bowling alley/arcade parking lot (showing off) and was immediately pulled over. Cop asks what was that all about after asking for my license. I acted like I was upset and pretended to be weeping slightly. I told the cop my girlfriend just broke up with me and was at the bowling alley on a date with another guy. I told him I was angry and upset, sorry for burning rubber but just wanted to head home. The cop let me off with a verbal warning.
Sometimes a convincing lie of an empathetical nature works.
Everything was fine until that last line disclaimer...
Thanks for your posts. You do me, and all sheeples a good one when you post amongst the riff raff. God bless.
Get a $35 dash cam from Amazon. When you get pulled over, turn it towards yourself and the side window. This is probably the best insurance you can have - if the cop goes rogue on you, or starts threatening you, at least it will be on tape.
Next practice these two lines:
- "I do not consent to searches of any kind"
- As soon as you get your ticket - "Am I being detained or am I free to leave now officer?"
The first one establishes that any search of your person or car is involuntary (say it several times if needed). The second one establishes that you are not staying voluntarily, and wish to leave. Without probable cause, they can't detain you longer than it takes to give you a ticket (even to wait for a K-9 unit).
Beyond that, its best to lock your phone (so it can't be searched), keep your hands on the wheel, be polite, hand over your license/registration when asked and keep calm. Say as little as possible.
I ride a bike with a camera mounted on my helmet and have been pulled over say 4 or 5 times with it on. Every single time, the first thing the cop says to me is: "Is that on? Turn it off right now". I've tried arguing but it just made things worse. So no, I don't think a camera helps with cops. Maybe on your dash they won't notice it as much.
Get thee a PenCam...
What gets me are all the tricks they have now concerning 'implied consent.' If you lay your bag on the Xray at the airport, that is 'implied consent' to allow the search. YOU HAVE NO ALTERNATIVE. How implied is that consent now...and don't dare bitch about the trampling of your rights in the hearing of the TSA trash or the NAZI airport cops...they'll play all sorts of games to fuck you over.
If you get a commercial driver's license, you give up all your rights to search and seizure. They can stop and search you all they want. You refuse and they can 'detain' you as long as they need, and you'll lose your job besides.
This is bullshit. MY RIGHTS DON'T VANISH WHEN I GET ON A PLANE OR DRIVE A TRUCK.
Haven't flown since 2001. We drive by car and generally never leave our state. Airlines won't get my money. I know many other people who do the same. Vote with your green.
I agree. I only fly now if I have to on business, and everytime I do, light fingered lefty, with the toy badge, liberates something from my bag. I'd like to piss on his leg.
I was one of the TSA trash right when they were first formed. It was plain inside 90 days we were NOT there to protect anyone, but instead to indoctrinate and control. What sickened me was the number of coworkers who LIVED to stick it to people. I hate petty tyrants.
My problem with voting the the green is twofold: 1) they DO NOT HAVE THE POWER TO TAKE AWAY OUR RIGHTS and (2), I live in Alaska, so driving any place NOT in Alaska takes a passport and a small pile of money for gas and food.
I agree with your sentiment though.
When inner city thugs pull you over they are not wanting to arrest you,they are wanting to put you to rest - permanently. If the popo can charge you, you may end up paying his employer - the city - court fines.
Contrarily, the city thugs will want their payment, such as your phone, car and cash immediately. They are more likely to wound or kill you than the police. Sorry but the police still edge out the thugs in integrity. Another esteemed law professor Barack H. Obama also has also had less regard for police than for his home boys rioting in the streets. Same same Eric Holder. After Ferguson Obama plans to initiate a nationwide conference on how police can be "more fair." He still does not recognize fatherless angry black males as any sort of problem.
You are an idiot. Ghetto thugs are no threat to anyone that doesn't go into their neighborhoods acting like an easy mark. Cops are everywhere an will kill you without hesitation because they have nothing to fear. If a ghetto thug threatens me I can shoot him dead and most likely walk being a middle aged white male, good luck trying that with a cop. Cops are the most consistent source of rights violations (real crimes against the life and property of victims) in the USSA today.
Private criminals could never get away with the scale of criminality practiced by the state on a daily basis.
I agree, the [aparently] citizen apologists for the police seem impervious to the notion that organized, daresay vertically integrated, state abuse of power if far worse than incidental/disorganized crime could ever be. This psychological condition seems the normal reuslt of a mediated upbringing, so they propagate and defend fantasy stories.
Many of us have to go into inner city for work, school, etc. Glad that you don't have to and live in an area where the police won't let them stomp and rob you. Good for you. That's what its all about - YOU
Cops in the US are better in comparison compared to almost all of their international peers in terms of corruption and hiring criteria but I am always amazed at the level of confrontation and standoffish by US officers. This lawyer is right though and it generally is advisable to answer as little as required during any traffic stop & not to answer any additional questions even if you don't have any reason not to do so.
scenario- fratelli blares on about how he doesn't mind how the cop's treating him, he just doesn't agree with how far away the cop parked his car. Then, after staring at the guy for a moment, woops, the cop sees something that looks suspicious, and pulls an Eddie Haskell on the guy and does what happens to white drivers 10x more than swat teams. He blows his pants off.
"Papers please"
Ihre Ausweiss ist nicht in Ordnung. Bitte, kommen Sie mit uns.
I'm old enough to remember creepy spy movies where the villians (Russians, East Germans, Chinese, or Nazis, depending on the age) always asked "Papers? May I see your papers?", and as a naive child in the 1960's, thought that was made North america great - that I didn't have to live in fear because I didn't have the right papers. How things have changed..
Well, as Orwell warned us, "Freedom is Slavery".
"Do you have cause to detain me, or am I free to go?"
You can get rid of the ""Do you have cause to detain me" part. It serves no purpose. While police are required to have "reasonable suspicion" to detain, they are not required to state that RS to you at the time of the detention.
And before you say, "Am I free to go," you must say, "I invoke my fifth amendment right to silence." Since the recent SCOTUS ruling in Salinas v Texas, anything you don't say to police can now be used against you in court unless you explicitly invoke. This ruling has now made it a necessity for every person to shout, "I invoke my fifth amendment right to silence" as soon as an officer starts walking towards you.
The courts are continually working to eviscerate the Bill of Rights. With Salinas v Texas they have made the approach of a police officer a threat to anyone's liberty and chance to get a fair trial.
the behavior of these cops is disturbing from a society point of view. they are able to lie to you, to manuipulate you into giving up your rights and bust you for so many things that a creative cop could arrest anyone on the street for behavior they are currently exhibiting. the law is stacked on their side when the intent of the usa form of .gov was to stack the law on the citizens side. you are not allowed to lie to a cop. that free speech is not protected even though it is not under any oath in any courtroom. the bottom line is a normal person would not associate with someone with such thin ethical depth. devious people usually are not the people honest people want to hang out with.
when you see a cop don't talk. don't give them the time of day, tell kids not to become cops, bash them at every opportunity. make police, security work the worse job on earth. they are the enemy. they are the state.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/colorado-man-arrested-after-pointing-banana-at-police/
Don't argue with a cop on the side of the road. Do it in court. He is like 10 times less likely to shoot you there.
Some practical advice when pulled over:
1) Always know where your registration and insurance is to easily grab it.
2) Roll down window before policeman shows up.
3) Keep your hands on steering wheel in plain view
4) If speeding, don't act dumb say I must have been going a few over the speed limit.
5) After handing policeman info, before he walks over to the car ask for a break.
I had no tickets in 24 years and was pulled over plenty. Last time I was pulled over I could tell it was a hard ass copy. I told him I the truth, I was new to the area, must have been going a few over, had no tickets for 24 years and could I please get a break. He did.
And if you smoke weed never bring your bag with you in the car or a pipe. Roll one up and if you get pulled over munch it down.
Rule #1 for staying out of trouble with the law/feds/police...do not give ANY reason to be stopped or questioned. Obey all traffic laws, make sure your car has no expired tags or missing lights. If you are stopped do not get into any conversations, just answer any questions that have to do with situation at hand to the point and no more. No small talk.
You can do all of that and still be detained at the ever increasing use of checkpoints. DUI checkpoints, license checkpoints, and border checkpoints 100 miles from any border.
" just answer any questions that have to do with situation at hand to the point"
That is waiving your 5th amendment right. The best answer to any police question is, "I invoke my 5th amendment right to silence."
Sometimes you don't HAVE to do ANYTHING. I was pulled over for tinted windows...the cop claimed they were too dark. Utter bullshit.
Correct, you can be pulled over for just about anything. The officer in the video made that point. Tinted windows, Tag lights, seat belts, fail to signal, weaving, etc, etc. All designed to give police a reason to investigate further, if they suspect something illegal. (or just to harass)
On the other hand, the folks on the street cops have to deal with on a daily basis helps me understand why most (not all) of them are assholes.
As for the police. They are simply the enforcement arm of what amounts to an organized crime racket. Its the system they serve that is at the root of the evil. Lock us in a cage if we do not comply. Kill us if we resist. ALL in the name of the PEOPLE. But not really because our system of government has morphed into a self interests of the corporate elite. The concept of liberty and property in a constitutional republic id DEAD. In reality, you and are allowed to exist to COMPLY and SERVE.
I can't believe it! Not a single post blaming Israel or the CIA for creating bad cops.... What is happening?
Almost all the posts I've read are from people that don't know what they are talking about. It is amazing how so many idiots can be so consistantly wrong.
What does the CIA have to do with local law enforcement or border patrol?
If you have a point why not make it instead of calling people idiots? If. person is unaware the proper term is ignorance.
My point, that you lost, is that on ZH the conspiracy nuts are usually blaming the CIA or Israel. I was NOT! For you I will add a sarc\
Most Cops are pathetic, on some of these busy metro freeways people are changing lanes with no signal and talking on phones and they are are more worried about me not wearing a seatbelt. They trump up some bullshit in the middle of nowhere for someone not signaling a lane change.
I've had a vicious Community Watch w/Police Officers,etc. tied in with Proselytizers mess with my career and personal life.
Pardon the Editing - I've spent too much time on the post; but hope you'll get the picture.
A smear campaign of sorts that's been going on for years - accusing me of:
There's the typical Skin Head Type in the neighborhood township's Police Squad. Since one of the observers mentioned about contacting Internal Affairs, one would figure SOMEONE would give me the full low-down so we can bring this racket Public and Exposed for us to Litigate and Prosecute.
So many people are doing whatever they can to cover this shit up. Of course - Maxine WATERS is the Congresswoman of many a location near/where the racket took place. We've El Segundo, Redondo, Manhattan, Hermosa, Palos Verdes, San Pedro, Torrance, Gardena, Pasadena, Compton, Carson, Coronado, Imperial Beach, UCLA(My Md visits and Md/DDs visits for Mother), USC (one nexus, allegedly - people have come out of the blue to yell that school's name out to me), Biola ( the XO from the Whistleblower Case is an alum), USD (San Diego - someone allegedly published that I was gay as a result of their studies, etc.). Rumor even has it that Stratfor is involved with the Neocon Actors.
The icing on the Cake? There are at least two ex-Military Cops that served in my Command involved - both were stationed in Antigua. One became a "Kept Man" to a Sugar Mom; and another was a conduct case I had to kick out of my office years ago on numerous occasions - funny thing is that a Vet Rep at Pasadena's Employment Office/Networking Club with the same Surname as the Conduct Case tried to hit on me (by caressing my hand) during the VetRep Interview (needed to get leads for Vet Pref Gigs).
Anyone here with Media Connections? Please feel free to apply as a contact. This should be a funny scandal of a screw-job campaign, since a few years back they FUBAR'd a Security Clearance Investigation based on UNCONFIRMED GOSSIP(regarding a False allegations(aforementioned smear campaign by the Cults) on my Mental State) W/O MEDICAL INTERVIEWS. Yes, they can deny Interim Clearances (which doesn't count as an Official "Clearance" of record) just from Gossip and Lies - as a form of Whistleblower Retaliation or other Govt Screwjob.
The locals are still trying to spin it as a "we want to learn from him", "we want him as an example", Community Organizer/Builder Bullshit Shindig Speaking of Community Organizers, didn't our POTUS spend time as one?