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Crude Carnage Goes Contagious As Brevan Howard Liquidates Underperforming Commodity Fund
The entire commodity complex is seeing major contagion-like price declines in early trading. WTI Crude is back below $65 for the first time since May 2010 - now down 16% since the initial leaks of OPEC's decision last Wednesday. Gold and Silver are getting whacked and copper has plunged below 300 - back at its lowest since June 2010. The news over the weekend that Brevan Howard is liquidating its $630 million commodity hedge fund following recent poor performance is also likely not helping as what looked like late-Friday margin call liquidations are extending notably this evening.
WTI is down 16% since the initial OPEC decision leaks last week by Venezuela...
And volume is heavier than normal for a Sunday night
As The Wall Street Journal reports,
Brevan Howard Asset Management LLP plans to close its commodity hedge fund following recent poor performance, according to two people familiar with the matter.
The fund, managed by Stephane Nicolas, has $630 million in assets. It lost 4.2% last year and is down 4.3% this year to the end of October, according to performance data reviewed by The Wall Street Journal.
It is not clear what Mr. Nicolas’s role might be following the commodity fund’s closure, a person familiar with the matter said. Attempts to reach Mr. Nicolas were unsuccessful.
Brevan Howard is among Europe’s largest hedge fund managers with about $37 billion in assets.
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Black Monday on deck.
Why would a "hedge" fund need to liquidate when it was supposed to be a "hedge" fund.
You mean they didn't hedge it?
Oh....
PS There's a teeny tiny bit of a problem with this evening/morning's price action. As in what's the meme/message.
Both commodities and bonds are down.
NFW
If commodities drop it's deflation. Meaning bonds be very very good.
If bonds drop then it portends inflation and commodities should not....
Oh, y'all get the picture.
PSS If this price action continues (deflation theme) along with poor Xmas sales, then you can betchur ass we'll be off and running to QE4Evah
It's a hippy dippy thang knuks.
They're hedges were "peace poor."
Is backing up the truck the same as buying the fucking dip?
Both are subsets of the fuck-a-duck reverse somersault approach;)
LOL
Ask Suzie Stinkypants.
She's got all the answers.
Shit... SILVER Down Another 5.25% under $15 !!!!!!!!!!!!!
I Think Its USD Liquidity CRISIS On Deck.
Can The World Take Another 2008 USD led Crisis ???
Monday STOCKS Toilet FLUSH ???
Weclome to the deflationary correction the Fed tried to stop in 2008-2009. This time they can't use the half measures they have tried over the last 5 years.
They either hyperinflate or die.
It's time to go full-defensive and buy safe haven assets like the S&P 500.
now your cooking..... Buy the S&P with both hands and feet, and dont stop..... Until it doesnt work.... Make sure you have a battery backed up clock because one morning the lights wont come on. Then you will know you should have closed your long.
The Broncos are driving at the Chiefs 42 and you guys are all worked up about this shit ???
To my downvoter, I had no choice but to watch football as I can't stand circuses !!!
Kansas City fumble recovery!
3 pts !!! Man, the only thing suckier than the PM prices is getting beat by the Raiders !!!
P
F
M
,
I have a solution to this crushing Deflationary depression we're seeing ... How about we Bonus all the Bankers again !
Hank Paulson is waiting in the wings, trembling and stuttering in his usual way prepared to warn merikans of thier doom unless we save Wall Street.
The crash in prices is crushing all the Asset Bubbles the Fed and other CBs created and/or propped up the last decade – watch housing prices plunge 50-70%.
China home prices fall in November despite rate cut
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-home-prices-fall-november-despite-ra...
Its all ending the way we thought it would years ago here on the hedge. Strong dollar, massive deflation followed by the fed printing like Mother Fuckers to counter the deflation The cherry on top of this shit sundae is going to be war..
Deflation? The FED printed something like $11 to 16T in 2008/9.....all that did was create another massive bubble in RE, bonds and stocks.
King Doelarr is not going to last much longer. Enjoy it while you can I guess.
Yep, the doelarr going to die...
Denver wins!
Yup you are the only one who can predict market, shine our canned food you golden monkey
TV, NFL, NCAA and Hollywood are for retards. Keep watching.
Nothing dumber than White guys cherring on people like Michael Brown and Trayvon like morons.
What if...you go long and the market gets so frenzied the internet crashes and no one can get orders in because they only have one phone a Schwab.
or...what if you short the heck out of the market and it crashes so bad they won't pay out anything.
Either way the best investment would be physical Gold or Silver.
Is it possible without QE the market crashes so bad all the shorts don't get paid ?
or if QE1000 causes the market to explode and cause nervous breakdowns and meltdowns ?
What a Sunday night !
hedge funds don't hedge
just like the vix is not a measure of volatiliy, but of downward price pressure
Schwab and Associates, can you hold?
Looks like they are going to have a case of "the Mondays."
Goodbye Blue Monday:
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTYdb7DkDDWWBnswkLk...
"Schwab and Associates, can you hold?"
Soon to be: "The number you have reached....is no longer in service."
I don't need no stinkin' batteries. Mine is a wind up, runs for 7.5 days. That's why I'm so physically fit. Its from all that winding.
Aside from this hedge fund collapsing, the China office of OW Bunkers has also just filed for bankruptcy on Monday morning.
The suppliers/traders of oil bunkers have been hit with a double whammy!
The account receivables were pledged to ING bank who will demand payment together with the bankruptcy agents PwC/KPMG.
The oil company that sold the oil to the bunker supplier will demand payment from the bunker supplier.
And heavens help the suppliers who borrowed money to do such trades! then it becomes a triple whammy!
Court cases shall go on for a couple of years but expect many bunker suppliers from Korea, Thailand, Singapore, Denmark, Africa, China and wherever else OW bunkers operated and bought bunkers, to go under. While business margins will rise and smaller players in millions of dollars o go bankrupt especially more if the economies shrink further due to the oil price rout in the next 3-6 months.
All parties will go after the actual ships and when the problem is compounded by the fact that several jurisdictions are suing each other, the court cases could go on for several years.
However, expect several bunker suppliers to go under in the coming weeks as they are pressured by ING and KPMG/PwC and receive court orders to deposit 'double' the money into the courts!
OW Bunker China Seeking Court ProtectionMeanwhile, the 'profitable' airlines of Europe are juggling between demand for higher salaries on one side and lower fares/demand on the other and we have a perfect storm.
http://sputniknews.com/business/20141201/1015333371.html
Lufthansa Cancels Over 1.3 Thousand Flights Amid Pilot StrikeThis article just released on the FT confirms my views of last week that oil is not going down due to US or its allies. Oil is going down due to Saudis being upset with the US since the guys are returning home causing unrest and US trying to upset Saudi as the largest oil/swing producer. Although most Western media will state that Russia and Iran will suffer but trust me, if Iran did not suffer in the past 30 years, they wont suffer in the next 10! And Russia, well, in 1986 they had massive foreign debt, while today Putin has converted debt into reserves and that too a lot in Gold and not to mention China was not supporting Russia in 1986 but they most certainly are today! Venezuela has always been a basket case economically speaking, however, China is here to rescue them and get a major head start! All of this indicates that the only loser is US and no one else. The demise of the OPEC producers has been greatly exaggerated. The biggest impact will be felt by the shale producers in the US who are privately owned or the likes of the Danish OW Bunker etc!
This is what the Minister had to say:
“Look at the fragmentation in Iraq and the abominable situation in Syria,” Sheikh Khalid told the Financial Times in an interview. “If Afghanistan was a primary school for terrorists, then Syria and Iraq are a university for them – these are serious threats and lots of people from our country have gone and joined them.”
Gulf states launch joint command to counter Isis and IranBad times ahead if oil touches 40 dollars or even 50 and stays there for a month or so, then we are screwed like 2008 redux!
Stay cash!
There will be better days in the coming weeks to buy!
Deploy in tranches!
The world is not going to end and none of the industries will shut down (though some companies might).
The trick to make money in stocks has always been 'Buy Low' and 'Sell High". We are entering a period where 'Buy Low' is appearing ahead....
If you dont understand and cannot follow new global trends, then go the route of buying indexes or ETF's, for example the oil ETF or bank ETF or China ETF etc and remove the individual corporate risk. Even an individual mutual fund is really worth it with hundreds of investments inside it, in order to ride the wave but you have to get the macro situation right in order to get a lot of wind in your tail!
More likes it´s time to change the societal model in western part of world. With all these albatrosses hanging around our necks - we will simply not be able to compete nor be prosperous. And no amount of manipulation , tricksterism or Gruberization will change that. Eventually the tricksters will run out of idiots (Gruber´s words). There will always be a number of them around bt they won´t be no majority anymore.
After the shellacking the libtards have given themselves and the moral demise that the Neocons have suffered after W - it´s time for something else that is true and tested.
In Liberty (as was the greeting way back when)
""They either hyperinflate or die.""
The Ole Hag Is Being Roussed Up Tonight...
What Do We Do, What Do We Do!!!
Countdown until Canada's real estate market implodes.
3......2.......1..
It already is about to implode. Canadians in Florida are about to get plunger raped on their valuations for properties here. If the CDN drops below parity, y'all are fawked.
My place is priceless.
IDFM
It already is about to implode. Canadians in Florida are about to get plunger raped on their valuations for properties here. If the CDN drops below parity, y'all are fawked.
Let the REAL sales begin, bitchez! As I'm sure we all suspected, the Cartel has released the monkeys in full force right outta the gate tonight and I'm sure they'll be hammering the paper PM's hard for the next 24 to 48 hours at least.
So let's take advantage, shall we??? While the sheep-tards were out fighting with each other all weekend for cheap garbage made in China and racking up more debt, we stackers get to take advantage of Cyber Monday sales on REAL phyzz PM's.
SDBullion.com has a .99 over spot sale right now (any quantity) on OPM generic silver rounds and $7.77 shipping.
http://sdbullion.com/silver/generic-rounds/opm-1-oz-999-fine-silver-bullion-round
I've been checking a bunch of other sites but haven't found anything else all that great yet. Provident had most stuff listed as "out of stock"....uh huh...yeah, sure. LOL
If anyone has found any other good deals, post them under mine, ok?
STACK ON!!!
Wow...silver broke through €12 to a current €11.96. I´m going to wait until around 08:30 EST and see if another smash comes, then I´ll pull the trigger. Smells like 2008 doesn´t it?
Wouldn't it be funny if all their interventions end up causing an actual hyper-DEflation?
The more they DO, the more it makes it look like the economy is in more trouble than they're saying, and the LESS people want to spend, invest, or borrow...
Have we ever SEEN a hyper-deflation? I mean, like Weimar in reverse?
What's the fuss? Oil price drops -- gas prices go down. Oil price drops -- the big guys get screwed and we pay less for things we need?
So far I like this.
You're not paying attention. You will never again pay less for things you need (food, shelter, water, health care) with the possible exception of clothes.
For awhile, yes. Because they can control prices on those needed things, they can inflate prices there and screw us over...for awhile. But that will fail, for two reasons.
One, inflating prices on needed items will take disposeable income away from the consumers. This will simply accelerate the decline of retail for all other goods. So it won't do anything to help those big portfolios.
Two, persistent higher inflation of needed items during a time of increased unemployment and declining wages is asking for civil unrest.
Deflation is good for most of us, bad for those few who depend on an artificially inflated economy to do their 'skim'. When it sinks in to Mr. Average American that his most important assets, like his home, are STILL there, and haven't changed at all except for the numerical 'value', he will stop fearing deflation. It hasn't harmed him at all. So, his house is priced lower, so what? The only way he can USE that value is by selling the house. And then he's got to live somewhere else, and the same market that inflated HIS home's value has also inflated the values of whatever he wants to buy. So it's a wash for HIM.
The only ones who benefit from inflated house prices are those who own many properties...they can sell off some, but don't HAVE to repurchase.
TPTB use this fear of declining home values to scare an ignorant populace who stupidly believe that THEY benefit from the inflated values. No, stupid homeowners, you DON'T. Your BANK does, because they own MANY, MANY homes. The system will either steal your equity when you have to spend it on another overpriced property, or they will steal it by selling you on an equity loan so you can 'tap into' that value.
Deflation is your friend. It is the enemy of those who would steal from you. Inflated asset prices only benefit those who trade in that asset. It hurts those who merely want to live their lives and use that asset for themselves. And that is most of you.
Every dollar they create is done so by creating a dollar plus interest in debt. The system is inherently deflationary over the long term. The periods of inflation we get are the result of the financial authorities tweeking things to fight systemic deflation.
Full on deflation will quickly lead to panic. Consider most financial planners account for varuying levels of inflation in the products they offer. People are not afraid of inflation. Deflation though ......?
It doesn't matter how low silver goes. It is USED - at some point (like oil) it will go UP. Buy and hold.
DavidC
-4.3%....Oh, those were the days....
Hell, that's stellar performance for a commodity fund; they should be attracting more hot money.
+1000 bahahahaha
Oh yeah....
I forgot.
Somebody somewhere wrote that with Peace Bursting Out All Over the ME, that risk premiums in gold, oil, etc., were dropping.
Talk about horseshit deluxe.
The Propaganda and Perceptions Management Machine Works 24/7/365
Amazing. Absolutely Amazing
But Wait!
Suzie Stinkypants is on the football game (You know, the chick that they let give "color" once a game for 20 seconds or less to show that they're an equal opportunity employer, etc. I mean fuck, they give the HoneyBears ... Pure Skank... more time than Suzie) and they asked Suzie if the Quarterback who was taken to the locker room was OK. She said, "Golly, gee. I'm not sure, but I saw him talking to the doctor about 10 minutes ago and then just now he had a really dreamy smile on his face and glassy eyes, moving very nicely, so he must be OK. He was still slurring his words, but then again Jermain "The Neurological Gap" Johnstone has never been known for his sterling pronouncements. So I really don't know, Jim. Er, I mean, Hal."
And so we Carry On and Scream Into the Pillow, and we'll all be OK in the long run.
Fucking charlatans. We're surrounded by Fucking Charlatans
As it always was, and shall forever be:
All giggles and jiggles.
Ya'kno, Kaiser, if I were still a drinking man with this shit going on, I'd be dead by now.
Fucking Turdblossom Specials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blOGsMq-XYU
I'll have one for you then brother. Maybe two...
Looks like gold and silver are tumbling into the abyss as well (paper is anyway).
Good. Everything is working out. I will see my target of $60 Oil. It is $64.61 as I write.
Perhaps ekm1 will be correct targeting his $40 Oil. (Please correct me if I am incorrect ekm1. I doing it from recollection.)
Hopefully I will see $1000 Gold and $9 Silver.
Maybe this will be the spark that ignites the freefall in the S&P 500. With collapsed Retail Sales, in congruence with this, we may have the makings of a very Merry Christmas.
Seven Black Swans a swimming, Six Goose Eggs as profits. Five Thousand Dow.
Four Large Banks collapse
Three new wars
Two Billion dead
A deflationary hell we'll see...
Dr copper under three bucks. We are in serious trouble.
Standard velocity target 22LR on the shelf for $0.07 per round = not seen since 2010.
At my place the little brown shrooms that grow on bison turds are slightly hallucinogenic.
Doesn't everyone have a vice?
Lol
All this crying and whining at 65!!!!
I can't wait for 45, then a buy the moment fuck up move and 35 hear we come!!
Then your gonna see fucking liquidation, this shit that is going on right now, is the smart players jumping first, what will follow, will be pure bloodshed!
Time for the idiot in chief to give a speech, I would say!!
Stupid fucker will probably release the SPR if he opens his dick receptacle.
I can just hear it now...
Oil, as a vital industry and which is necessary to our National Security is something that we cannot afford to do without.
I, having met with my advisors (Lobbyists in the Oil Industry.), have declared this to be a state of a National Emergency. Therefore I have empowered the Federal Reserve to make (taxpayer backed) loans available to the Oil Companies in this time of crisis so that they may continue operating.
These Oil Companies up in North Dakota are TOO VITAL TO OUR NATION TO FAIL and we must not let that happen.
Also I have increased Gasoline Taxes to bring back Price Stability so that the Oil Companies can recover from this crisis.
So I have issued an Executive Order to this affect and you can sleep soundly, America, knowing that your Government has your back.
Can you?
Better than giving it to the Arabs and Israel.
Make no mistake about it; until AIPAC and the dual-nationals in 'our' government are ousted with extreme prejudice, Israel will always get their cut.
and as Atlas Shrugs we nationalize the oil companies, just as we will healthcare, if not from too much profits, then too little.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3I-PVVowFY
Did not Dodds frank promise us that government now had the power to protect our economy from those businesses that were too big to fail? No matter what industry and no matter where in the world they exist?
Oil will be spilling in the Wall Streets.
Anyone know how this would affect Tesla Motors???
WHO FUCKING CARES!
Say it loud and say it proud Knucks.
Its bullish of course.... isnt everything.... Soon the governement will commission them to make the americacn peoples car (volks wagon)
Musk: That's it, Voltswagon!!!!!
The price of oil or the Greatest Depression?
Most "hedge" funds are nothing more than leveraged "momo" funds.
Stand by for impact.
Energy pigs have been feasting on free FED money for years.
Time for slaughter little piggies!!
What are they Gona buy this time ?
Why Stawks Mortimer Stawks.... they own all of the bonds now.
Of course they're hedged.... that's why they only lost 4%, unlike the doomer goons who went full-retard on physical....unhedged and not diversified with a central thesis built upon conspiracy and fear mongering. That's why they're only down 4% and most of the wing-nut doomer goon libertarians lost 50% of their wealth.
Ad praesens ova cras pullis sunt meliora
If we're "holding" it, and haven't "sold" it, we haven't "lost" anything you stupid fucker.
I hear you. I feel as a PM holder that we are a 2-7 football team...yeah there is a chance we could be wearing the winning ring...but we need a lot things to go our way.
Kinda more like when I was playing pee wee hockey - we all loved the game, but there were a mitful of us that couldn't understand the concept of off-side . Very frustrating to those that did, and many a game was lost because of it. Thats when you could go down to the gas station with a dollar your Dad gived ya - buy a gallon of gas, a pack od smokes for him, a pop, and still bring him back about 30 cents.
The refs are doing us a hose job though like its 16 on 11 and no pass interference is being called on obvious plays....
Just opened the safe, for a quick double check, peeky weeky. Nothing has evaporated. I haven't lost a god damned thing. Whew!
Cognac - I had to up arrow you but it hurts because it's true. I got through 2008 pretty well but never lost my fear. The fear kept me in PMs way too long while the Fed was busy lighting rockets for the S&P. Still hurts.
So you still don't know why you bought in the first place? Is that what you're saying?
WTF?
Never get in between the Russian Interior Ministry and their shovels.
The problem is that there is total cognitive dissonance here. Most won't admit the S&P index would have done much better for their portfolio. N
Just like all BS they blame other people. Total horseshit. Gold has been a disaster for over 3 years and the bs of back
Up the truck is just silly at this point. I do think gold will be much higher in 3 yrs but saying it has been a good investment is total crap.
Best getting better. Plus we're breaking Governments too! Took a lot of nerve to lend all that silver to Great Britain in World War I I imagine though...
Combining the words "Gold" with "Investment" clearly explains that you just don't get it.
You mistake long term bets for short term bets. If you wanted short term then you should have gone with the banks. If you wanted to win after the bankers are running around without heads then you went all in on physical.
You play a short game.
We play a long game.
Will your game see you through the rest of your life?
Ours will.
I loaded up on $4 silver back in 1999. Then bought annual issues of silver eagles and silver mint sets. I had 30 pounds of $4 silver, roughly ten pounds of $9 silver, and half pound of $13 silver. Sold my higher priced silver when the wife got sick. So far I'm still in good shape...it's all there in the box. Haven't lost a dime.
ummmm. 10 year bond is up (price-wise). Looks like a flight away fom risk assets and commodities towards (snicker) safety.
Knucks
Somewhere between inflation and deflation is this thing called "the end of the dollar".
We are watching the inability of the CBs to control a dollar that has been printed to hyperinflation as debt defaults and drives the printing of base money. Fear drives folks out of risky investments into dollars even as the extra base money continues to go into stocks.
Gold is now paper gold (except for the tiny bit of physical that gets Hoovered up as it becomes available) so it no longer acts as anything more than just another paper asset. It will continue to drop until all the physical is gone even as the market is flooded with more paper. It is no longer an indicator of anything.
The reason this looks so strange is that it is strange.
I'm not saying this is the end but I am saying this is what I expect the end to look like.
It's funny, but I didn't expect the Saudis to pump as much as they can in order to kill Russia and US frackers. Now that they have, it is a distinct possibility that the fat lady may be warming up back stage right now. I'm really starting to think that I need to take flint knapping up as a hobby with all of this bullshit going on.
Leave the shards in place to confuse the anthropologists of 2500.
“If you want to keep your carnage, you can keep your carnage.”
Don't you think we'll see violent swings (pun intended) in prices and dollar value before we see violent swings (criminal elite intended)?
Now the tricky part is guessing where the max pain/capitulation point is on tbonds.
Tricky, tricky.
Will be nice to unload some TLT and play the squeeze/rebound.
10 year to 1.75 this time? Lower?
$3.5T Excess Reserves.
Nothing to worry about, yet.
yeah, man..soon... if not tomorrow.
50% off all crude and natural gas for gold contracts!
<ticktock>
The 100th one since this bull market started (as predicted right here). Do you really think it won't be green by the end of the day?
FUCK YEAH FOR silver SHORTS
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!
#buysilvercrashjpmorgan
So what's the deal now at ZH? Trot out some sock puppet gold trolls just to create clicks and comments?
Seriously, this blog isnt far from Full Retard status itself these days.
Maybe fonz was right and we're all just wasting our time here now?
Fonz was right.
This place is especially odd at night and on the weekends.
NoDebt,
This anti PM troll Diablo was here years ago bad mouthing gold and silver on the move from from $700 to $1900 and $9 to $48. He never acknowledged any of it. And here we are in 2014, in much worse shape across the board. We are looking at a full blown worldwide depression and financial collapse that will make 2008 look like a picnic. So "sell all your gold and silver, and throw it from the rooftops" is the answer at ZH now?
Quite frankly, I'm losing my appetite to hang around here when he gets green arrows for being so fucking stupid. I can get this mindless chatter over on the Yahoo boards...
he's getting his kids to green arrow him Bay. And please, stick around. Tonight, for example, have been some seriously funny and insightful remarks about all kinds of shit and anecdotes. It would be shitty to see yours disappear because of some asshat that is unlikely to spell his own name correctly. :) Besides, how can you not get a rise out of Knuckles - or the Doc, "for the kajilionth time, nobody's got any fucking money!" This is why I come here. Fuck Diablo
I am back from traveling in the African bush (none mosquito none Ebola regions) for almost a year and here to reconnect and support the old gang. Just completed 5 years since joining and it seems to me that lately, as the blog is getting more popular, there has been a concerted effort by the status quo crowd to discredit and dilute the thoughtful comments of this site.
Time will silence them. Hold on to your guns.
welcome back Oracle. sounds like a great trip.
There is something very intoxicating being among the big five in their turf and on their own terms.
Survival of the fittest in pure form, as the carnivors must run fast to catch prey and the prey must run fast to escape
I know. There are some deep-cover trolls working since nearly the beginning. They come and go with their posting, taking vacations in between. True nknown and probably not worth the knowing.
If I was young and impressionable I might even fall for some of that stuff. But I'm not and I don't.
Some can fool me, but not many. Once somebody's seen how things really work, even a glimpse of it, it's a little tough to convince them otherwise, no matter what rhetorical argument is used.
yes, they all think that they can shit with rainbows
If you truly “have seen how things really work”, then you know that the vocal membership here could not be farther from reality. For reasons I can only ascribe to the same needs that drive humans to create gods, a certain segment of the populace needs demons as well, and these demons must be as near omnipotent as gods. I guess people feel more comfortable with someone or something, even a malevolent something, in charge, because randomness to them is more frightening.
Most here love to champion themselves as independent thinkers, when they are anything but. They are just another color of sheeple, whose Gurus live on the internet or RT rather than Fox or MSNBC. They embrace the Streaming Lame Media rather than the Lame Stream Media. If someone said he "researched" something on CNN or Fox, all here would laugh, but if he researched it on Alex Jones or David Icke or Dmitri Orlov, he's a friggin scholar. Too funny.
People seem unwilling to accept that leadership---from Obama to Putin, Xi to shining Xi---is some combination of incompetent, wildly egotistical and self-serving, or just batshit crazy. Also, each and every one of them is winging it. There is no grand conspiracy, and no “Plan”. That is the reality that makes so many uncomfortable that they feel the need to invent some malevolent control entity. That is also why this site used to be important, because it was highlighting the effects of that leadership incompetence, ego, and craziness. Today, it just caters to the wingnut demographic, feeding the belief in uber-demons. The site makes more money now (who would have thought the whackjob demographic could be milked for lucre), but it has far less impact.
If you truly “have seen how things work” first hand, you know all of this. If you've been inside---wealth or power---you know what it really looks like. You also know your knowledge creates opportunities, but also thrusts all responsibility for your success and well-being back on to you, because ultimately nobody is in charge, or at least at the control wheel.
Funny that those who actually know this are labelled “trolls” and “deep cover ”. One can try to test his mettle and navigate the real world as it is, or embrace excuses and thrust blame on “THEM”. One can grow up, or live in a fantasy world of ghosts and goblins. Those who choose the latter might save their egos, but they will not save money or find any peace or enjoyment in life.
Fuck dude, you want a cookie or what? Why do you assume (incorrectly, I might add), that everyone here has all their assets in gold and silver? No conspiracy you say? Comical considering the facts on the matter. Some here are simply trying to describe a fraud ridden paper system that will ultimately implode and disintegrate into dust. So why is that so hard for you to comprehend?
I called Diablo a PM troll because he is one. So why can't you stay on point, instead of writing a book about your brilliant insight into these FUBAR'd "markets" you speak so confidently of?
You know his type. They don't see proof of something so anyone who believes in it is just a retard.
Those are the kind of people you ask, "Is there such thing as a trillion dollars?"
Of course they believe in something they can't see so, "Yes".
"Prove it."
You truly are a moron.
Besides the fact that you stalk EVERY SINGLE ONE of my posts (besides being a moron, youre also a psychopath!!!!)....look at how long ive been on ZH; ive been badmouthing PM's from 700 to 1900? ummm, yeah, that wouldve been hard to do if i joined ZH 3 1/2 years ago.
I frankly get so much joy for every dollar gold/silver drop because i know doomsday idiots such as yourself are losing money. And yet you continue to badmouth me...that only means im right, and youre wrong. The only 'depression' and 'financial collapse' thats happening is happening to the portfolios of idiots such as yourself.
SO keep on doing what youre doing you wackjob, i giggle at every single one of your responses.
Okay, so $1100 or $1200 on gold and $18 to $48 for silver. It just seemed like youve been here that long.
Come on pal. Bring it on. You have nothing else to lay down but ad hom attacks. Youre narrow minded and only see things through American or Western rose colored glasses. Ask people in Zimbabwe, Cyprus, Greece, Venezuela and even Japan what they think about gold smartass. Or maybe the Chinese, Indians and Russians you clueless retard.
Who is the whackjob here Diablo....it certainly isnt me.
Like the proverbial sucker at the poker table, if you have to ask, it's you.
Like the proverbial sucker at the poker table, if you have to ask, it's you.
Re: precious metals, I have two words for you; Hold Fast. The worst that will happen is that your kids will inherit something of value.
Just to create clicks and comments?
Perhaps you have overlooked the fact that this site and the vocal membership regularly rejoice over the death of anyone remotely associated with the FIRE industry, and get endless laughs when fun is made of Dennis Gartman or Tom Stolper. Lots of clicks and comments when that happens. Indeed, that is the intent.
Nobody complains about that, but only when someone points out that Ag is down 70% from its high and Au down 40%, movements that make Gartman and Stolper seem uncannily prescient relative to Jim Willie, Turd, etc., do you feel the site has gone "Full Retard". (If comments about PMs tumbling are full retard, what are comments stating a firm belief in chemtrails, FEMA Camps, HAARP, Grand Cabals, etc.?)
Oh, you "haven't lost because you haven't sold"? Pets.com and Lehman Brothers equity holders will sleep better tonight knowing that.
A paper gain is a paper gain, but a paper loss is real money.
And right on cue....another dickhead from years gone by.
And one who happened to have gotten it right. Admittedly, some or most of it is luck (and when I am wrong I know whose fault it is), but some comes from fading the zeitgeist on this site, where the vocal membership is consistently and absolutely dead wrong. That alone is worth its weight in....APPL stock. The "traditional" word in that phrase will be re-substituted at a later date, but not yet. Let it breathe (though a nimble sort might consider a very short term long here).
Incidentally, if stackers should fear anything right now, it is SSE 2700. A billion Chicom riverboat gamblers could turn on a (Mercury) dime.
People may hiss me, but when I go home and think of my money, I applaud myself Oscar Wilde
You speak as though people on ZH have been making daily calls when they have not. You speak with forked tongue and the strawman has a black eye.
When the system implodes or not we will see. Until then, I will sell you paper for gold, silver, land,... pretty much anything but more lies.
Where I differ from most of the vocal ones here is that PMs are not a religion to me. They are just another asset choice, sometimes to buy and other times to sell. Same as equites, bonds, land, currencies....anything with a two-sided market. People here always claim to not care about price, yet with every downtick they come out whining and moaning and blaming anyone and anything except themselves.
@chindit13
People like you fascinate me nearly as much as tinfoil army on here. You're right about alot of the people in the basement, but you're not really arguing any of the issues...
I'm guessing your justifications for why it will all be ok, are nearly as ludicrous as the craziest of the conspiracy theories down here.
Demographics and Debt. Convince me that those things are fixable, and then you'll have a point. Until then, I think you're just whistling past the graveyard.
But shit man, keep on picking up those pennies. That bulldozer is a long way off, I promise.
Jeebus, I never said it is going to be okay. Why is it that anyone who doesn't worship at the golden altar must be in favor of the status quo? Open your mind a little and appreciate that there are a range of opinions out there, not all of them centered on shiny metals. While I don't expect Mad Max, I do believe I have seen Peak Prosperity, and that the next few decades will see a reversion to the human mean in terms of "polite society", which history says has not been polite and has, in fact, been mean. I just happen to believe the underlying problem isn't any of the F-words (fiat, Fed, fractional reserve), but instead the fact that labor has lost pricing power in a world where innovation, productivity, and efficiency have leapfrogged society's ability to absorb displaced workers. The F-words, as well as the debt, are merely symptoms, not causes. They were stopgap measures enacted in the hope of prolonging the party, which they actually did, but some of them exacerbated what will be the inevitable fall.
End the Fed today, go back to a gold standard, and outlaw fractional reserve, and a sum total of nothing is solved. Lifestyles and living standards are meeting in some mid-point, closer to what rural India now is and not what the typical OECD country enjoys. Moreover, the Birth Lottery Advantage (unskilled people who happen to have been born in the developed world) has been repealed, and that is what peole here are really complaining about.
While I believe you're correct that the "F-words" are only part of the story, I think it's naive to think they have not severly exacerbated the problem.
As far as open-minded goes, why does everyone who purchases precious metals automatically qualify as a doomer-nutjob? Throw out all of the illuminati crap, and it still remains a logical choice based off of the current geo-politcal situation, debt, and demographics. Even your assesment above would argue for it.
I went half cash in case of deflation and half PMs in the case of inflation, so far this has worked out well enough in protecting my wealth. Gold is down but the dollar is stronger. I may buy more PMs with this slaughter going on.
I mean jesus man, yes some people believe that the boogeyman is out to get them at every turn, but that doesn't mean that there isn't some merit to the aruguments being put forth. Just don't go full retard anything and you'll be ok.
In the end I think people playing around with stocks right now will look far more foolish than Mr tinfoil in his cabin, surrounded by gold.
Then you've done fine. What I find baffling is this view that PMs, and only PMs, are always and forever the answer. For many, it is a religion. Heck, one can even hear the prayers being chanted each time a PM article appears on this site.
(Like everyone else here) I bought PMs in the late 1990s. I bought gold only in 1999. I actually did. I neither love it nor hate it. It's just another asset, sometimes to be acquired, sometimes to be sold. Remaining dispassionate about it allowed me to get out at extremely favorable prices. Luck, no doubt. I will buy again, though not Ag, which I think the market is clearly saying is now just an industrial metal. It's biggest fans are pushing daisies, and most of those now above ground can't tell it from steel, pewter or pyrite. Of course if the world economy somehow recovers, Ag might do okay, but I am not expecting any recovery anytime soon.
Then your issue isn't with Gold or Silver, but rather with a lack of common sense.
The problems you describe are what we have been dealing with for some time, what you seem to be missing (or denying?) is the high likelihood of a disruptive event caused by the current system being unable to adjust to the new reality.
I seriously doubt it will be a slow stroll down the otherside of the curve, in which case political instablity and rapidly changing circumstances make any asset with counterpary risk a bad bet no?
What's worse? to look foolish standing on the high ground while the sun is shining between storm clouds, or to drown in the flood?
For my sake I hope you're wrong on silver, I think the preception of it is swinging the other direction, towards monetary, but we'll see.
Thanks for clarifying. Now I know why I dont listen to anything you say when it comes to banking, debt and what is money. You have no answers, and don't even identify the problems that have caused the continuing misery, suffering and death around the world for decades.
No worries pal, you have yours and thats what's important to you. I get it now. It's not that you lack vision or knowledge, you just dont care.
So what are the problems? Take out Occam's Razor and whittle away reality until you see what remains. It is the pricing power of labor. More people, incidentally, have seen their lifestyle rise to an heretofore unprecedented level in the last 100 years. Ownership of physical assets has never been more widespread, and never easier than during that same period. You think serfs owned homes? Serfs were stackers? Heck, one might even say the elite have been hoodwinked, because while their wealth still dwarfs the 99%, much of it is in paper.
The reason it is now hitting a roadblock isn't because we don't use gold, or have a Fed, or allow frac-res, but because we have evolved beyond the need for manual labor. Yes, we outsourced, too. You think any of us owe more to someone just because he materialized within the same man-made borders as us? Are you that much of a statist? People like you constantly disparage the "sheeple", so why do you think you owe them more than some guy in China who is also trying to feed his family? Should domestic labor just be a kind of glorified FSA?
There is no answer to what ails us, unless we want to smash all the McCormick combines, robots and whatever else has displaced human labor. We just have to get over this hump, which might be a long slog.
By the way, you are not loading up on PMs in order to do humanity any service, but just yourself. Don't pretend otherwise. That it hasn't worked out as you thought has you projecting the fault on to others.
Yes, I know all the causes and the problems and I know most certainly who is at fault. Apparently you don't or won't acknowledge the facts on that. I can't figure out if you are a banker, or a govt employee/stooge or what. At any rate, it doesnt matter. You are clearly a shill for the staus quo and an enemy of individual freedom and liberty. You are the type that will cheer on the NWO and one world currency. I'm on the other side from where you stand.
You think thats bad you should see the victory lap the CBs just put on silver. 10% drop in minutes to 14 handle. As if it had creeped up before the vote. I did'nt even know about a Swiss Silver referendum.
I never in my wildest dreams since silver was last $14, think that I would be able to buy a monster box for $5000 again. And yet we are closing in on $10 silver rapidly. It just might happen.
Todays message is brought to you by the letters F and C. F as in fraud and, can you say corrupt boys and girls?
Today's message brought to you by the letters M and C, as in MARGIN CALL. XLE & XAU down big, expect selling of other liquid stocks to meet margin calls.
Well Beam Me Up, the Monster Box may very well get to $5000 when calculated off the paper price, but....
... that doesn't mean you get to buy one.
Provident just sold out of their Monsters tonight.
You'll have to buy individual tubes, then spring for an empty box on eBay lol.
Well, look at that. I'm showing that they just sold out of all Eagles now!
don't think so Nikkei >17500 !!!!!!!!!!!!! Dow almost positive S&P down 3!
Again...what if the stock markets break and fly and crash very quickly, and no one can get paid for their bullish or bearish bet ? All stocks get frozen out ?
Fascinating !
Moody's downgrades third-biggest economy's credit rating to A1 from AA3.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/102226574?trknav=homestack:topnews:2
Gold/Silver Ratio 78.14 WTF
Control of the monetary system brings power the fascists could only dream of.
@law97 where did you get that avatar picture?
means short gold.....
Dayum. Had to pick up some silver. Wait till sub 50 for oil.
had to but oil today at $64.64 cause the car told me I had to...
My last prediction that there would be a margin call on the system by no later than December 31st, 2014 just got fulfilled
So does that mean 'clean up' in not only aisle 9, but also in aisles 1-8 and 10-25?
2008 replay
Sounds about right.
As the Doomstead Diner puts it, the tide just went out, prepare for the defaults (margin calls), which ZH has been prolific in covering as well.
The Tide Goes Out
http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/2014/11/30/the-tide-goes-out/
And for a great Daily Rant on The Oil Price Crash:
http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/2014/11/29/oil-price-crash/
I have a distinct feeling 2008 will be looked upon as "the good old days" for not one thing was fixed, or learned, from that.
When I watched the documentary "Inside Job", I could not finish watching it, for I was so angry.
This is the deflationary setup expected for The Big Print.