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Swiss Gold Referendum Fails: 78% Vote Against "Protecting The Country's Wealth"
Whether as a result of an unprecedented scare campaign by the Swiss National Bank (most recently reinforced by Citigroup), or due to confidence that Swiss gold is as safe abroad as it is at home, or simply due to good old-fashioned "hanging chads", today's most awaited event has come and gone and the result - according to early projections by Swiss television SRF - is that the Swiss population overwhelmingly rejected a referendum to force the Swiss National Bank to hold some 20% of its reserves in gold in a landslide vote, with about 78% voting against what AP politely termed "protecting the country's wealth by investing in gold."
As Bloomberg reports, the proposal stipulating the Swiss National Bank hold at least 20 percent of its 520-billion-franc ($540 billion) balance sheet in gold was voted down by 78 percent to 22 percent, according to projections by Swiss television SRF as of 1:00 p.m. local time. The initiative “Save Our Swiss Gold” also would have prohibited the SNB from ever selling any of its bullion and required the 30 percent currently stored in Canada and the U.K. to be repatriated.
A ballot box is emptied at a voting center in Zurich today.
A map showing the breakdown of the Swiss vote by canton: none of the 23 Swiss regions had a majority vote for the gold initiative.
That said the decision will likley not come as a surprise because while early polls gave the yes camp a surprising lead, subsequently polling showed a marked shift in public opinion, and forecast the initiative’s rejection.
The biggest winner, of course, is the Swiss central bank: SNB policy makers warned repeatedly that the measure would have made it harder to keep prices stable and shield the central bank’s cap on the franc of 1.20 per euro. That minimum exchange rate was set three years ago, with the SNB pledging to buy foreign currency in unlimited amounts to defend it.
“The SNB can feel confirmed in its policy,” said Martin Gueth, economist at LBBW in Stuttgart. “By rejecting the gold measure, voters have come out in favor of its current stance.”
Referendums are a key feature of Switzerland’s system of direct democracy, and are held nationally and at a municipal level several times a year. The gold initiative was launched by a handful of members of the European Union-skeptic Swiss People’s Party. Uneasy about the more than 100 billion euros the SNB holds, they contend their initiative will strengthen -- not weaken -- the central bank’s credibility.
However, SNB President Jordan labeled the initiative “dangerous” and his fellow board member Fritz Zurbruegg said accepting the measure meant the room for maneuver “on currency reserves would be dramatically restricted, with negative consequences for the Swiss economy.”
The central bank, based in Bern and Zurich, would have faced a three-year deadline for repatriating its bullion from abroad and five to meet the 20 percent benchmark. With the European Central Bank poised to enact more stimulus to boost feeble growth and inflation, economists surveyed by Bloomberg News in a poll published on Nov. 19 had expected the SNB to maintain its ceiling on the franc into 2017.
The question now is what will happen to the Swiss France, which recently rose to a 26-month high against the euro. For many the concern that a successful gold referendum served as a catalyst to avoid going all in the CHF, as gold purchases would have weakened the currency. “If the euro crisis doesn’t get worse, then the minimum exchange rate will be defendable, said David Marmet, an economist at Zuercher Kantonalbank. Had the initiative been accepted, ‘‘instruments such as negative rates that don’t widen the balance sheet” would have been an option, he said.
With the referendum out of the way, the CHF may paradoxically find itself with a situation in which the inflows in the CHF force it to double down on defending the cap: economists have questioned whether the SNB will now find itself having to reinforce its cap with a negative interest rate on the cash-like deposits commercial banks keep with the central bank, making good on its threat to take further steps “immediately” if necessary.
And then there is the question of what happens to the tension in the gold swap market: as noted last week, the 1 Month GOFO rate had tumbled to the most negative in over a decade. It was not clear if this collateral gold squeeze was the result of Swiss referendum overhang or due to other reasons. The market's reaction on Monday should answer those questions.
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Stolen like Scotland
The Switzerland Kleptos have won
Their gold referendum is done
The Powers That Be
Control what we see
Reform may require a gun
Pile on the massive gold shorts to prove how useless gold is. Even though gold dropped on news when it looked like it might pass, you know that since all news, good bad or ugly makes gold drop, this is sure to be good for at least another 2.5% drop
Good gives me more time to pick up more phyz
The Banksters are just too powerful to beat in Europe, USSA and 5 eyes. It will be the Chinese and Russians who will eventually restore some integrity to the financial system.
Latina Lover
Do you still that naive… or, it’s because you haven’t had coffee yet?
“The BRIC’S Bank is anti Petrodollar, not anti Money Power” -- Anthony Migchels
the cheese makers did it again ...
Foch um.......ehehehehe......they're already done for.......they were never going to get their gold anyway
Piling on the diebold longs
Fecking NumSculls ...
...Welcome To The EU Slave Labour Serfdom...
78% of the Swiss voters chose the Euro over Gold. Good luck with that. Let me know how well that works out for your purchasing power over time.
The FED Dodges Another "GOLDEN Sucking Sound"...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEfK-3Lwph0
""Not only did they vote against the GOLD- these idiots voted against curbing immigration.""
Hehehehe, In 20 Years, The SWISSies Will Be All Be Making Dollar-Store Trinkets For... The Chinese Consumers.
people and countries who have gold in their possession are won. Congratulations.
Gold is nice for some bling, but it's the banks , and they know it. Cryptos are for the people https://www.tsu.co/philosopherstone
Have both but, average age now in cryptos is 18-25.. stick with the future not the past.
Looks like the Swiss are no wiser than any other bunch of Western sheep.
The Swiss have already lost a huge amount of banking and investment business to Asia -- Hk and Singapore in particular. They're gonna lose lots more now. Luckiky they can increase their Cheese and Chocolate production using the increased low-wage immigrant population flooding into their country to try to offset the Billions they will lose from their banking business.
The Mighty Swiss Franc is now just a historic fascination.
You can't trust these guys anymore!
No vote wins 100% lol. gee wiz whoever could've predicted this would fail?? Paging winston churchill...
Sanction of the victim.
Damnit, i had gold popping $500 come Monday Morning.
part of the problem with the yes campaign was this perception - which even the yes crowd failed to counter - that it would force 1500 tones to be purchased
Thats only the tonnage needed 'at these prices'. had the news of a yes vote or other factors carried the value of gold to $3000 / oz, they wouldnt have to buy anything for their current horde to be 20% of their balance sheet
Did they do exit polls?
Suckers.
More time for me to stack harder, then.
Swiss watches and shipple are the best of their kind.
"Stick with the future not the past," makes for a nice soundbite, but when in the history of the world did the legendary 18-25 cohort have a controlling interest in global politics or finance? That they can be led along to think they are making a difference cannot be argued. However, real change or real leadership, not so much.
Same demographic put BHO into office. I didn't trust their judgement when I was still their age. Hard assets, in hand.
All the way up tp the EMP hit...
Then what do ya got??? No electricity means no food for u.
Go ahead, stick with the future, it is working out so well!!!
A not so oldy...but a real goody. Pass it on for the holidays to stackers and non-stackers alike!
A Turdville Tale for Christmas
I hope the 22% who voted for this give the rest of the population absolutely nothing when things fall apart. They seem to be ready and willing to be serfs, so be it.
I just wish I could be there to see their faces after they wake up one morning with nothing, and figure out that if they had voted for this they would still have most of their wealth.
I would take photos and release a line of posters and keychains "The faces of stupidity".
If you ever needed an example of why it's not going to get any better from this point onward, here it is. We're doing this the hard way.
I was surprised that 22% knew what they were talking about...I always knew 78% of any population...even the Swiss, haven't got a clue.
.
The chorus heard round the world:
"Free money, free money, free money!"
what a bummer...yet another chapter in this long battle though. We'll see how it all plays out soon enough.
Didn't want their vote to fail, but I was skeptical it would just like the Scottish vote did. Although I did think it would be much closer than this, which in my opinion kinda screams of some kind of over the top voter fraud occurring. 78% "No"??? Sounds like somebody was double-counting the "No" votes a little too much and overly skewed the fraud votes. Hope there's a re-count or some kind of investigation.
So now we get to sit back and wait for the markets to open tonight and into tomorrow. I had wondered on here a few times over a week ago what everyone would think would happen with the paper gold and silver prices either way after this thing wsa finally done with? I fully expected a beat-down on Thursday and Friday ahead of the vote since America was going to be on holiday Thursday (markets closed) and on Friday they would be too occupied with beating each other up over even more cheap bullshit made in China. So TPTB would use that opportunity to beat the prices down as more warning shots across the bow of the Swiss "Yes" voters. Looks like mission accomplished.
I also wondered if the vote would have passed then would TPTB still beat the paper prices down hard-core going into Monday and Tuesday just to punish the Swiss for passing it. Guess we won't find out about that.
But now that it has failed then I'm wondering will TPTB smash the hell out of paper gold and silver just to really prove their point and scare the hell out of any standing longs in the paper market who will be too weak to hold on any longer????
Phyzz holders won't worry about it or care at all. Either way for a short time it will still give us even better buying opportunities as long as there is phyzz available and as long as premiums don't skyrocket on the back end of a massive beat-down. We'll see in about 12+ hours.
Have your dry powder ready for it, Stackers! We just may yet see 1000 "paper" gold and 14 "paper" silver? Who knows? Maybe even lower in silver actually. Just keep stacking now as your dry powder holdings allow.
This game is nearing completion, and regardless of what the Swiss would have voted today, the phyzz stackers are still doing the right thing and will be greatly rewarded for being strong throughout the collapse of the fiat monetary system and the end of the Great Keynesian Experiment.
Lower prices AND shortages are now guaranteed.
Lower prices AND shortages are now guaranteed.
I also doubt it was rigged too. Just like austerity or cutting back on entitlements -- people would rather inflate and forget if it means they can keep things going a little longer.
Voting yes for a gold standard would mean voting yes on fiscal responsibly. The good thing is that this means CB's will keep printing, and you can have your own gold standard by purchasing some PM's privately.
Main stream media and the absence of macro economic education have done the job. Swiss are brainwashed or at least dazed by EURO enthusiasts. The remaining few: Wake up!
I don't think the vote was rigged. We just witnessed the classic 80/20 rule: 80% (78% in this case) asleep, 20% awake. Most people anywhere will vote against any measure that makes them uncomfortable. They don't want a better life; they want what's familiar, and more ominously, they want the same for everyone else. In other words, their vote was in favour of bunging themselves AND the person next to them.
They made their bed; let them lie in it. But damn their blindness. The outcome was probably irrelevant anyway. The psychopaths probably emptied Swiss vaults years ago.
On the positive side, the publicity might have raised awareness among a few, and more importantly, the Swiss 'safe haven' myth is exposed, the voting majority having demonstrated in a tangible, measurable way that they are as corrupt as everyone else.
I don't know where smart, independent money can retreat these days (Caymans? Hong Kong?), but it seems unlikely to remain in Switzerland, much less anyplace else in Europe.
They Choose Paper Fiats Over Phys GOLD... Viel Gluck Botchez...
Let’s see how the SNB spins this into a mandate to sell the remaining gold.
slaves will be slaves
their folly is my opportunity
Learn to trade JDST & DUST
& STOP WHINING!
One thing cleared by this referendum and that is," Swiss are not different and they do not deserve the kind of respect we were giving them".
Can you imagine what % of the vote would have been in the US/UK?
Its too confusing for them.
"It's" too confusing for you
I love ZH's Grammar Nazis
They would vote however their TVs told them to vote.
If teh advertisements presented gold as bad, then they would believe it.
All the MSM would do is show that gold is racist and that anyone who thinks that we shouldn't spend more than we earn hates America.
And nobody, especially white people, wants to be called a racist or un-American.
LOL
<-- acknowledges reality, doesn't care what the sheople call him.
The overwhelming majority of common people is stupid. What else is new?
Just few examples of common people voting and supporting
- The American Constitution promising Liberty and Equality was written by slaveowners? The same goes for the Great French Revolution with its guillotine rampage.
- The Russian Zionist-Bolshevick Revolution was promising a paradise for working people but brought them only mass starvation and Gulags extermination camps.
- This list is just endless
As for the today Swiss referendum on gold and immigration, Swiss just capitulated to US and EU pressure. It is all. And finally, any capitulation always lead to a misery. Swiss is no more an independent Nation. It is not controlling its own future anymore.
Who cares!!! doesn't bother my gold and silver referendum one bit
Actually Latina is right, just as Spengler predicted about 100 years ago.
Not only did they vote against the gold- these idiots voted against curbing immigration. From "I'll hang on to your gold while you guys fight it out" to "welcome Tina Turner and associated mongoloids". Amazed they want to be as fucked as Amerika.
Chalk one up for the banksters.
Spengler knew after the Russians had lived through the Jew Bolshevik inspired Communism; they would rightly reject outside influences and protect their culture. I am wishing my children studied the Russian language at this point. It looks like it will be Russia and China vs the Mutts.
Last post for Hemorrhoid Awareness Month: Neo Healar Hemorrhoids Treatment CreamCommunism wasn't as bad as you think in the west. Too much propagand for bad russians, they could lie about anything at that time and you can't prove that they are wrong.
We had free school, free educations, prices was going down, salaries are staying the same level, all have a work. We didn't have 2 cars or shiny trash, but you don't really need to live.
We just had same shit government people like in the west now, who sold country to USA...
And Stalin had a damned nice head of hair.
What about the 60 million people the Jewish bolsheviks killed? Just a statistic? What about the mental and physical abuse of the Russians in those slave labor camps. What about the phony science based on Marxist cant? What about living in a gray society where everyone is ground down to the lowest level except, of course, for the party officials?
Yeah that was some great experiment. Asshole.
Right you are. Also millions of Ukranians were starved to death by Stalin and here in the US the press nicknamed him "Uncle Joe" like everybody has a murderous thieving maniac in the family tree. Shame on the media then, shame on them now.
Joe, Sam, what's the difference?
Madeleine Albright says 500,000 dead Iraqi Children was "worth it" wins Medal of Freedom
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omnskeu-puE
"One death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic". -- Stalin
"If my sons did not want war, there would be none." -- Gutle Schnapper Rothschild
"One death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic". -- Stalin
Stalin never said it. It was A. Hitler who said it after his 6th Army was lost in Stalingrad.
All you need to know is the Establishment ran the referendum information and that Switzerland has the same banker media we do. But what we have to understand is that the bankers’ hold is coming to an end; it’s just a matter of time.
The bankers’ ownership of the media using lies to protect their empire is showing widespread weakness all over Europe. The fact that citizens actually forced the referendum in Switzerland means the ball is rolling against the banker establishment.
No better evidence exists that the citizen tide against the bankers is rising than the widespread protests in Germany against the U.S. Federal Reserve.
The Most Important News wrote in mid-August:
What is not being reported in the U.S. is the massive “End the Fed” rallies by the German people, as they believe it is the core cancer that is infecting the entire world. See the video of the protests here.
I know some Americans have protested in the streets to “Audit the Fed” to no avail. But the German movement has recently gone viral.
Something really smells here. There are a few possibilities, which include:
Michael Krieger wrote in June regarding the “End the Fed” rallies that were exploding throughout Germany:
“According to the organizer of these rallies, they have now spread to up to 100 cities and have a combined attendee base of around 20,000. What is also interesting, is that the mainstream media in Germany is calling them Nazis. In Germany, if you don’t support Central Banking, this apparently means you are a Nazi. What a joke. Just more proof mainstream media everywhere is complete and total propaganda. It is also a good sign, since it shows the desperate lengths to which the power structure will go to keep their criminal ponzi alive.”
Wrote Krieger after viewing the video above:
“Do these folks seem like Nazis to you?
In an interview with Peter Schiff, Peter Boehringer of the German Precious Metals Society described how the move against the banker establishment is European and worldwide:
“Our campaign is therefore not only a ‘German’ one – but could have international repercussions of unknown scale. It is not by accident that since the launch of the first two campaigns in 2011/12 (Germany and Switzerland) – more than ten similar national initiatives have been launched all over the world.
“The responses of the arrogant central bankers are the same everywhere: Ignore them, call them “conspiracy theorists”, insist that “everything is in order with the gold”, but give not a shred of evidence (bar lists, audit reports, bar transport to owners). And act only if public pressure forces you to…”
http://themostimportantnews.com/archives/why-the-u-s-wont-give-germany-their-gold-back
+1 Excellent contribution, thanks. I guess we'll just have to learn the hard way.
AfD should bring some light!
Great information! I hope nobody shoots you, JR.
It shows that the manufactures and banks have control of the votes, Boo Hoo Boo Hoo. It results, in the long run, that the citizen's children will be having lower wages and a corresponding lower value of their inherited assets. The middle class and below will suffer mightily. The US average wage is going down for anyone except the highest tech and science postions that require higher education and analytical skills. Those who move things and their bodies in concert with the work activity will be lost in the crush of young workers coming from the areas of war and poverty. If one is a globalist, and has Communistic tendancies, this is how it supposed to happen. It has always been a wonderment to me that the Koran specifies a good citizen charges no interest for providing help to a neighbor, however the writer forgot how the loaner might just take over the business of the borrower, because he has lost his upper hand. no interest just ownership, wow, that's better than interest. Examples of this are the loans made by the World Bank who require the loanee to sell their businesses to pay their debt in a short time. Finally, the immigration policy has to be restricted if a country wants it's general population to share in the wealth of economic activities. It was in the US until ?, then the Mexican people invaded the US and are in process of taking bck part of it, as we took it from them, earlier on. I vote we free Texas and let them and the Mexicans fight it out over the oil rights and production competition. They have that in common and also that workers rights aren't respected (unions etc.) there.
Yup, whether it's the Rhodesian collectivist clan from the West or the Leninist collectivist clan from the East, the goal is the same: a socio-fascist collectivist world government.
Informative five part read here that heavily cites Quigley's 'Tragedy and Hope' among other sources:
http://www.freedomforceinternational.org/freedom.cfm?fuseaction=issues#fic
Rhodesians? Why pick on us? It was you who created Zimbabwe, poster-child of a well run country.
We faught and died to stop you.
Now do the Right Thing and go and clean up your mess. Don't feel like it? Thaught not.
Immoral arseholes.
Go back to Talos IV.
"Yup, whether it's the Rhodesian collectivist clan from the West or the Leninist collectivist clan from the East, the goal is the same: a socio-fascist collectivist world government."
Informative five part read here that heavily cites Quigley's 'Tragedy and Hope' among other sources:
I take it you are citing Cecil Rhodes when referring to "Rhodesian collectivist clan"........ Edward G. Griffin gives the clearest explanation of the true meaning and goal of "collectivists/collectivism" in an excellent youtube video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAdu0N1-tvU
It is the underlying ideology of another toxic 'ism': Internatial Banksterism, often referred to as "Globalism".
Escrava Isaura I am aware of the distinction.
As long as the USD is the only reserve currency, we wil be subject to endless wars and loss of freedoms. In a world with multiple or alternative currencies that can support huge flows, the banksters will have less control over our lives. The NWO is nothing more than centralized global fascism.
I think Escrava is a troll. Thread hog. Time waster. Dilutes value of discussion. Posters like Escrava make ZH look less meaningful and helpful. Occasionally off topic, interjects stuff that points to pointlessness of revolt/change. Grammar and construction of sentences is purposefully tortured. Shares intelligent quotes and ideas occasionally that are at odds with illiteracy displayed. I think there is a new breed of trolls that barely pass the smell test, but over the long haul are meant to destroy a forum from the inside out. Just my thoughts on this as I observe yet another post by this "person".
78% "no" vote to back a currency with a pitiable 20% gold reserve by a nation with a long history of adherence to the gold standard? Half of Amurkah living on wealth transfers via EBT cards, selling whatever gold they might have for "cash"? We're fucked.
As I watched more aerosol spraying the last three days here in the California desert (seeing heavy metal "chembows" in many of the artificial clouds, with almost no wildlife present anymore in Joshua Tree NP), I reflected again on Catherine Austin Fitts' belief that the "elites" intend to reduce Western nations' 100s of $trillions in unfunded liabilities (Social Security, Healthcare, Wars, etc) with reduced life expectancy of the slave/servant class. Makes sense for a psychopath -- err, banker.
I am reminded of a man who goes mad in Kafka's The Castle. He is so overcome with disgust and fear of the rats that have taken over the town that the only word he can say, over and over again, is "The bastards! The bastards!"
Some of the old gold trolls have come back too. Spaulding, dickusbutkiss, Geruda, diablo....all we need now is Math Man to return.
Kinda miss HotKarlClevelandSteamers though, "TO MY FOLLOWERS AND FOLLOWERS ONLY!". That troll cracked me up....
Escrava is a total fraud. Wonder how much it's being paid to act like a total asshole?
the NWO is US
A St.Gallen student on zerohedge? Now that's interesting.
Wieso findest du das interessant? ;-)
The head of the NWO is the British monarchy.
cool video, I really like it
indeed, the biggest strenght of any order is the failure to realize our place in it... and neglect who we oppress while moaning about being oppressed
petrodollar is money power
It seems the Western people, as a whole, don't deserve any gold. Ok, it's their free decission; just hope they'll not be too surprise when facing due consequences.
The central banks are perhaps partial winners but the biggest winner is China and the East. Thank to general western negligence they can fluently continue relocating gold at bargain price. After all, gold belongs to those who can appreciate its value.
But their decision is based on lies, manipulation and ignorance.
Although I don't expect a perfect system from them (BRICS), you can expect they should have learned the lessons from what they witnessed so far. You can abuse to a point, then it's just a burn to the ground raid. Russia has kept itself financially in a careful position: Their debt only 16% of GDP, and nobody outside Russia holds any substantial amount of Russian debt. Russia is clear for takeoff.
This might get the final push down in gold price in Fiat....
I guess each Swiss person will have to "repatriate", I mean, buy, their own little bits of gold to store themselves...
Probably better that way - don't keep all your eggs in one basket and all that - but it is a bummer when you have to pay for the same thing twice.
I'm guessing each Swiss person needs to buy themselves 12 ounces, but I only did a quick calc. Feel free to fix that figure if its wrong.
Exactly. Gov't gold is not the people's gold - it belongs to whomever controls the government. The central bank of my sock drawer is vastly superior in every way to a government run facility, especially regarding integrity and fungibility.
London, Swiss, USA - the vault might as well be on the moon for all the good it will do the common people once this shit show reaches it's natural conclusion.
Yep. So Switzerland stores all their gold in their "Bank." So did the Netherlands in 1940.
That didn't work out too well.
Since the Swiss citizens are having so much money thrown at them they need to start importing labor just buy your own stash and keep it in the back for storage.
The BIS exists for settlements of "gold related matters." I really don't see the big deal.
And Russia and China. Wonder why they keep buying when everyone else is selling. And why the Netherlands got theirs repatriated.
It's a shame, one keeps hoping that something will happen to help put the brakes on this insanity and still it carries on.
DavidC
Nothing of this magnitude changes overnight. This is a 15 round fight. You didnt think they were just going to roll over did you? The mere fact that this is even on the agenda means its picking up steam. Hang on. It's coming.
The fight hasn't even started, this is the touching gloves stage. Anyone who thinks they will be alive when this is over is probably deluding themselves. This is part of an analysis well worth reading, especially if you are a 'stacker', from Michael Noonan at edgetraderplus link http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article48419.html
Neither China nor Russia are in a position to have their currency replace the FRN “dollar” as a world reserve currency. The entire global financial system has been staunchly in place for almost a century. Both China and Russia participate in it through their respective central banks, so it only makes sense that these two “outsiders” are eager to become primary insiders on a global scale.
Knowing the Renminbi or Ruble cannot replace the fast-fading, self-destructing FRN “dollar,” what will? The Special Drawing Right [SDR], a basket of existing currencies is waiting in the wings to become the next global “currency,” and when it does, it is game, set, match for the NWO. Kiss any national sovereignty good-bye. Pledge allegiance to the United Nations, Agenda 21, IMF, et al. Kiss individual freedom good-bye, not that there is any, thanks to the NSA, GCHQ, NWO collection arm IRS, etc, with most citizens around the world already living in a militarized police state, including the United States.
Zhou Xiaochuan of the People’s Bank of China is one of the most vocal members of the international community calling for the implementation of this new SDR system. And a big part of the structure of this new system is the Basel 3 regulations as put forth by the Bank for International Settlements. So it’s no surprise to learn that Zhou Xiaochuan is in fact one of the board members of the Bank for International Settlements. This should put to rest any conspiracy theories about China overthrowing the current banking system. We already know Russia cannot.
Rickards? Is that you?
"And Russia and China. Wonder why they keep buying when everyone else is selling."
China and Russia are establishing bilateral trade outside the dollar nexus. Gold is a confidence builder. It can be used to settle any imbalance in trade accounts, probably on an annual basis. This is how things used to work. If their trade balances, then only small amounts of gold change hands and the gold doesn't even need to leave the country - it just gets moved to a part of the vault which is designated as Russian or Chinese. If a trade imbalance persists for many years, then gold will change hands, but that is a last, not first resort under gold backing. Long before that happens, the respective parties will meet and come to an arrangement to increase or decrease trade flows to balance accounts.
Later, once the system is established, both China and Russia can lend gold to peripheral nations so that they too can participate in gold backed trade, and, over time, acquire their own gold to replace that which was loaned to them. This can work since both Russia and China can produce gold for sale in amounts equal to the increase in multilateral trade.
In a world of inflating fiat currencies and international currency speculation, this is probably the only way to establish solid ground for conducting international trade. It still depends on neither party seeking unfair advantage over the other, but the example of what can happen in that event is a fairly strong incentive not to cheat.
I'm cautiously optimistic that this will work for both parties. Frankly, if I were a young guy today, I'd be studying science or engineering, plus learning both Russian and Mandarin with the aim of working abroad. Not because I expect to get rich, but because I like adventure and challenge, and it's becoming clear that the West doesn't offer that as much as it once did.
siberia is the future. it's the least contaminated by fukushima,and has lots of natural resources and open space. maybe putin will do a russian homesteading act?
Nicely timed as India scraps its 80:20 rule.
Also, lets not forget the little physical gold deficit we may have...
http://www.mineweb.com/mineweb/content/en/mineweb-gold-analysis?oid=2607...
But then again nobody cares until something breaks...
Wow! Interesting result.
And I didn’t follow this topic at all; but at first glance, I would had thought Switzerland would have gone with the gold.
Anyway, major loss for the gold back currency advocators.
It would have been very interesting if the initiative was written so each of the parts could be accepted by themselves. I bet some would have passed.
The one about never selling gold appears somewhat naive.
See, I didn’t even know they had ‘Parts’ to it.
So, by reading your comment, it seems to me that they (whoever these ‘they’ might be) won in many different aspects.
It looks an impressive strategy.
Excreta...you're just showing yourself to be ignorant...and proudly so.
I think you are sadly misguided.
As I said before, I believe gold will be the last bubble, before our economic demise.
But it won’t matter because of its confiscation via taxes and currency mechanism.
Gold, diamonds, and (foreign) currency are not money. They are just easily converted, locally, to cash.
Can’t tell you how many times I took the ‘Gringos” (foreigners) in Brazil to buy Brazilian precious stones as investments/savings.
Only 2.5% move down for gold? I say at least five percent plus bonus add on two percent up for the Dow and the S&P.
anyhow the Dutch didnt have to go through this shenanigan vote and still got part of their goods back.
Also wasnt there an article citing that Switzerland may pay people for not worKing? Maybe thats the clincher to convince every citizen to say no to bringing their gold back. What a travesty but this was so expected and also, new highs on us stocks next week and more videos of shoppers going nuts over junk.
Sadly, I think you are correct.
The FSA has overrun the Alps.
We rejected "ending tax breaks for millionaires" by a very similar margin.
Unfortunately we also rejected building more barriers to other countries' FSA trying to move here by the same margin.
All the Peoples federal initiatives went down in flames today.
alas, as expected
The only thing that mattered here was a yes vote. If a yes there would have been tremendous pressure on the physical market by not only the SNB but speculators. The no vote does not change the reasons for holding PM’s, no PM holder buys gold because a western central bank may or may not buy gold. They buy it because they know that 60+% of the financial assets in the western world are debt instruments. A large portion of those debt instruments are the bonds of insolvent nations who can either print their way out of it or default. The other debt such as mortgage, corporate, muni and student loans are largely dependent on those government promises coming to fruition and the payments going out. How many baby boomers thought it was ok to cosign on their kids student loans even though they didn’t save enough for retirement because they think they will be getting social security? So all of these “safe” assets will be worth far less and when those bonds fall to a fraction of their current worth what other “safe” asset will take its place? Cash, well if they follow the path of least resistance and inflate cash will be destroyed. Stocks, not bad but there will be economic turmoil like we have never seen so I don't see them taking financial asset market share. My bet is what will pick up the slack of the bonds of insolvent entities will largely gold and silver. So the vote of a tiny nation will provide little but a buying opportunity in my eyes.
Good, incisive summary.
uh, a Social Security check does not last two weeks in this economy. You must be new here.
I'm just saying that many of the things that the govt has promised to pay such as SS and federal wages are not possible and these payments have been taken into account when market participants take on debt of their own. Don't you think that many of the baby boomers currently have debt that they might not have taken on if they knew Medicare would not exist in retirement and that they will be responsible for their own healthcare. There are tons of vacation homes that back the MBS that will be foreclosed on when they realize the govt can not pay SS and Medicare. So when the US Govt defaults on its debt it will reverberate throughout all debt instruments and the the economy as a whole. The reason I buy PMs is simply because I believe the current breakdown of financial assets of 60% bonds, 26% stocks, 12% cash and 1% PM's is going to be shaken up due mainly to the debt/bonds being way overvalued because many of the issuers are insolvent. I buy PM's because of an educated guess of the resulting market share of each of those assets after that shake up.
As anticipated the Swiss gold referendum failed, but the margin of 77% Nein to 23% Ja should serve as an embarrassment to a country and a currency once considered hard money. In fact this a perfect juncture for Russia and China to make a different kind of statement about hard currency, the global monetary racket by partially backing the Ruble and Yuan with gold.
Can't 16 year olds vote in Europe? Yes, 16 year olds, that are not old enough to make any major decisions regarding themselves, let alone the country were asked that they think on gold and immigration! Why not let my dog vote, his opinion is just as qualified.
Well the powers that be knew damn well that those 16 year old have not enough experience or past to question anything that the New World Order has been dishing up.
Now back to the front lines.
Oil.
How much paper necessary to cover this pressure cooker and muffle the sound of explosion?
At some point the scale tips.
Economic activity is neither at this point.
The great inverted pyramid shrinks more rapidly with each passing day from broad top.
Staging appears to occur, with continual pressure, until another layer is peeled away/blown up/unwound.
The massive credit cycles' demise.
I don't understand how governments bringing their bonds to fruition is different than currency inflation. Won't they simply have to inflate to pay the bonds (either cash or more bonds but who will buy the bonds with what cash?)?
Long term I think you are right about gold and silver picking up the slack. But to get there I think you will need brass, lead, copper, and steel.
"Only 2.5% move down for gold? I say at least five percent plus bonus add on two percent up for the Dow and the S&P."
That may indeed happen, but there is heavy sovereign interest in purchasing phyzz on the cheap, and a plunge in price like that will all but assure that dozens of additional tons of gold travel east. For stackers like myself, it´s just another opportunity to trade paper for gold and silver...only I´ll need less paper than before. I´ll be waiting for the price slams tomorrow and try to get mine as cheap as I can. Premiums will probably rise very soon though, as inventories of coins and bars evaporate. Expect more sudden announcements from the US and Canadian mints in the near future.
It´s going to suck for the miners if there is a heavy price plunge though. It may well force some CEOs to really think about holding inventory. Others may be facing shutdowns and layoffs.
Guess who'll be waiting to buy up the distressed miners?
Perhaps this is why gold did take a big drop last week. Mr. Market seems to have an uncanny prediction ability. I am amazed at how often something big happens in the market and then, shortly after, something big political happens which, in retrospect, seems to me to be very closely connected.
Nice Limerick...
They can keep gold out of the mainstream for a little while longer maybe. What they can't control is the obvious fact that nobody will be selling physical for any amount of paper or digital dollars soon.
True dat...
There goes the "Swiss are different" meme.
The Swiss "vote" could have gone 99% for gold-backed curency and yet, the outcome would have miraculously shown that they didn't want it. No way, folks... they'll never let go of their money power as long as they have the means to prevent it. Why do you think gold and silver tanked so dramatically Friday? Those "in on the fix" passed the word on to some of their co-conspirators to make a quick killing. But, I'm still not worried... they can't defy gravity forever. It's a terrible thing watching a plane or hot-air balloon crashing to earth (unless they're filled with banksters).
"Why do you think gold and silver tanked so dramatically Friday?"
coincidence....
yeah - right!
Looks like their elections are controlled just like in the US.
Who would down vote this comment? I guess the gov't trolls are out in force today. I didn't know they worked overtime on Sundays.
No way 8 out of 10 voted against this. Impossible. Stupid. Ridiculous. Totally Rigged.
I hear they get 7 union breaks, a 2 hour lunch, and triple-time pay to work Sundays.
Smart move by the Swiss respective to what happened to Libya, Iraq, Ukraine, et al. If Switzerland had repatriated their gold then those that want to steal it would know exactly where to find it in one tidy tight place. Looks like now they'll never be invaded unless they discover a huge oil deposit under Geneva then some excuse to invade would materialize. Gold and oil. A particularly potent death knell mix for small non-nuclear powers these days me thinks.
The Swiss are different - and not well understood.
There were no "hanging chads". Out of the 900+ ballots in my town, under 220 people voted yes on the gold initiative. The were 4 geniuses who didn't sign their ballots and less than 10 who submitted ballots but didn't cast a vote either way on the third federal initiative. The numbers we forwarded to the County and Canton matched up with the reported totals, the system worked the way it was supposed to - just not the way a lot of the outsiders wanted it to.
If you want to want to win at the ballot box, you need allies and consensus (or the shit to hit the fan -- 4% unemployment and 0% CPI inflation are hardly shit even if rent and health insurance are rising faster).
Next up is the drive for the END FRACTIONAL RESERVE referendum. The uppity serfs are going to keep beating the SNB until morale improves or the shit does hit the fan.
To head that off, the SNB might very well start repatriating that 300 tons (without telling anyone, just like last time) in order to have another card to play with whatever the next monetary policy referendum is...
So how could one get a gold referendum to pass IN SWITZERLAND, without sacrificing 4% unemployment and 0% CPI movement?
1) You have to recognize that CHF (in the mind of both SNB and business- is a medium of exchange and a unit of account.
2) Swiss like their "things" different, subtle, complex, and to perform as designed when used according to instruction.
Both sides were lying out their asses about this referendum and its consequences. That's politics. But the domestic situation in Switzerland is different that almost everywhere else.
So- here's how to hove a shot at a real gold standard and get the backing of both the SNB and some of the major political parties (it is a referendum about monetary policy after all)...
First, take JUST the first article from the failed referendum (gold repatriation and domicile) and codify it the Constitution, regardless of whether the SNB reacts preemptively.
Second, recognize that a currency is a medium of exchange and unit of account - and have 3 in Switzerland.
1) the Swiss Franc (as is but without any gold backing - so that the SNB has maximum flexibity against the damn 'ferners
2) the Cantonal Franc (Primarily for domestic use, which can be incented by stating the SNB will not honor any digital Cantonal Francs, held by banks not domiciled in Switzerland and regulated by Swiss Authorities; they could even borrow the full reserve language from the pending referendum to maintain domestic purchasing power, and specify that domestic tax payments have to be made in Cantonal Francs, and finally
3) bring back the Gold Franc. Start reissueing the 20 franc Vreneli in specie. In addition, issue paper Gold Francs in smaller (1,5,10's for the po') and larger (100,500,1000 for the rich) fully backed by the Swiss gold reserves, and publicly audited annualy by the Cantons and selected citizens appointed by the Federal Council. This detaches the Swiss gold from the CHF and unties to SNB's hands to continue its policy of a pseudo-Euro (without sacrificing monetary policy and simply adpoting the Euro), disincents currency speculation and attacks (ala Soros), allows for domestic price stability and a relatively constant money supply and 3) creates a real and fully gold backed currency for those who don't mind price volatility in their savings, and provides a mechanism for actual price discovery of physical gold by examing black market exchange rates outside of Switzerland
It can be sold to SNB, since it unties their hands externally, removes their gold headaches, and makes peace the uppity serfs and achieves consensus instead of turning gold into another perpetual slug fest - like immigration which everyone is getting really tired of. If the SNB accepts it -- more political parties than just the largest (SVP) can be brought into the fold.
Gresham's law. Within a year of it's issuance, you won't find Gold Francs available for purchase or if you do, it'll cost more than face value. It would be a good exercise to watch though and I'd support it (if I was swiss).
That's the (left unsaid) objective and gift to the gold bugs - REAL PRICE DISCOVERY.
Roll call vote of any other Swiss residents here...
If properly executed, could it work?
Don't forget to sign your ballot.
Sounds like a sham to begin with. Here's the sides:
1. Support a stable currency with buying back gold. Even if its, you know, just in case.
2. Support whatever the central bank wants.
So all the plebs came out and voted their central bank is doing just fine.
Right.
"I care not who votes but who counts the votes."- Some despot
I suspect the polls were manipulated to match what would soon be percieved was reality, a manipulated vote 'count' that was overwhelmingly 'no' to a PM backed currency.
It was Joe Stalin.
"...Reform may require a gun"
Yeah, ask the Cubans and the Iranians how it worked for them,
Seemed to work out for the American colonies
At least for awhile...
It will again...
I put forward this in another string and I have to give them credit,,,the made the margin of victory wide,,no recount no conspiracy..
Reform may require a gun is rigth the Swiss can legally have guns. So they still ahve access to a precious metal "LEAD"
So, why don't you go over and lead the charge?
Wow, after Scotland and now the Swiss, I'm starting to understand the inbred stupidity, that lead to the darkness and destruction of the that continent over and over for thousands of years!!!
Well euro kids, get ready for another cycle, your babysitters, the Americans are going to be busy cleaning up their own messes soon, I have a feeling you'll all be wishing for some gold in hand then, just as your grandparents and great grandparents did!
The gold referendum has failed
To a cross the poor gold bugs are nailed
But the plan wasn't smart right from the start
And so the electorate bailed
What is so funny is that you are a tool of the Communist Chinese government and fail to understand it.
China and Russia and even our buddies over in India have interests in keeping the Gold Price low as they are purchasing it. Has it ever occurred to you that they may be the responsible parties for smashing the price?
When people are buying they want what they are buying to be on sale. (Conversely when people are selling they want to command the highest prices possible.) That is just common sense.
JP Morgan is reportedly owned by Chinese interests and acts as an agent for the PRC.
After all treason is a Death Penalty offense during a time of war, especially.
And we are in a state of War, perhaps undeclared, but it is Warfare.
All Wars are economic....ALL OF THEM. I rarely use that word "all".
Keep working for the enemy, dupe. It is rather funny after all.
compare that to earlier ZH Article
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-09/what-swiss-gold-referendum-mean...
talk about the swing eh !
Obviously ZH under estimated public opinion ..
Oh well, sheeples are sheeples, swiss voters included.
Serious question for y'all: what happens to that peg when the euro zone breaks up? Since most of us on here know that is all but inevitable, isn't this really just a temporary setback? Once there is no more euro to peg to, the Swiss will still probably come out of this, while maybe not exactly smelling like roses, but certainly a lot less covered-in-shit than the rest of Europe.
Don't know about that. The Swiss central bank (SNB) has already quadrupled its balance sheet ( http://snbchf.com/snb/snb-balance-sheet-expansion/ ) trying to defend a currency peg that free markets would never allow, all in the name of "helping exporters." In reality, SNB policy makes the Swiss poorer, because an artificially weakened currecy forces the Swiss to pay more for imports than they should have to.
Today's vote means the SNB can continue to make the Swiss franc a derivative of the euro, (and remember, the Swiss voted against adopting the euro), even though the SNB balance sheet is already more than 80% of GDP. If and when the Euro zone breaks up, all those euros that the SNB bought to defend the peg will still be on their balance sheet. Good luck unwinding that mess.
old naughty...how right you are - I voted YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS !!!
The SNB made an official statement containing this gem:
" The SNB will continue to enforce the minimum exchange rate with the utmost determination and is prepared to buy foreign currency in unlimited quantities to this end. "
This vote was never going to have any effect in the long run one way or another. This was about how much official gold the swiss wanted to have on hand when the world's monetary system collapses and needs to be reset, as it does every 40 years or so on average. They made their choice, though I might be interested to ask them seriously why they don't just join the Euro at this point? Seems like they could avoid the admin costs of running the current peg.
I knew the Yes side was in trouble the moment they started talking about how the Swiss don't like being told what to do. This is the classic Libertarian/Goldbug lack of understanding of human nature. If people don't respond well to threats from officialdom, then why does the world look the way it does? The Swiss were only ever "proud" of their gold money as long as their own government told them to be proud. As soon as it was announced that gold as a Relic, they couldnt get rid of it fast enough or at a low enough price and its obvious now that most people are just fine with that.
If the Euro collapses next month, the SNB will calmly announce that the Franc is in good hands and that they made all the right moves these last years and everyone will nod. Just like they would here.
This reminded me of an earlier episode where someone had petitioned the whitehouse to build a deathstar and gotten enough signatures to warrant an official responce. Immediately some gold bugs started a petition to do an audit of the Fort Knox reserves and didnt even come *close* to getting the signatures needed.
No one cares guys. You should have known this earlier, but if you didnt before can there now be any doubt? You gotta hammer this into your brain until it is internalized. Gold will be valuable in the future at a price determined by the elites after they secretly work out among themselves how the next monetary system will work. This is the reason the Dutch recently admitted contributing to correcting the "distribution" of gold among CBs and why the Chinese who are official lightweights are buying all they can. The average shmuck will starve half to death before he even entertains the idea that "currency debasement" is the cause of his woes.
Then when the Yes side's paypal account was shutdown, I knew they were amateurs. Seriously, they took foreign donations which Im sure was used against them to great effect by the No campaign, AND they didn't even get use of the funds. Not smart and anyone could have seen it coming.
These are good people, but clearly idealists have their limitations. No I don't think I could have done better.
SCOTLAND. Recent polls now show a clear majority favor independence. AFTER the lies and promises used to threaten people into voting no. The promises are now proving largely EMEPTY. Lies were told, threats were made, old folks told they would lose their pensions and their health care. These old folks turned the tide, now they knw better. It was all Tory lies.
Nobody steals an election with 78% of the vote.