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It Wasn't The Swiss: Continuing Plunge In GOFO Means No Easing Of Worst Gold Shortage In Over A Decade
Yesterday, when we commented on what was largely a pre-determined outcome of the Swiss gold referendum, we said that there still "is the question of what happens to the tension in the gold swap market: as noted last week, the 1 Month GOFO rate had tumbled to the most negative in over a decade. It was not clear if this collateral gold squeeze was the result of Swiss referendum overhang or due to other reasons. The market's reaction on Monday should answer those questions."
Well, a few hours ago we got the GOFO update for the "day after" and the answer is clear: it wasn't fear of the Swiss referendum after all because the 1 Month GOFO just crashed even deeper into negative territory with the entire curve through 6M now red, and with 12 month GOFO just 0.6 bps away from negative for the first time. At this rate, tomorrow's update will suggest that big institutions expect the gold swap shortage to persist through the end of 2015!
Also, judging by the gold reaction, which is about $50 from the overnight lows, someone else appears to have noticed that the rather shocking shortage of synthetic gold among institutions, which is finally seeping through into that whole "price discovery" process, where supply and demand actually matter.
Bottom line: whatever caused the record scramble for rehypothecated gold, it wasn't fears about the outcome of the Swiss referendum. Something else spooked the precious metal a month ago, and as seen on the chart above, things have only gotten progressively worse since then.
Source: LBMA
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Ziebold, Bitches.
This is what happens when you sell things that don't exist to manipulate a market.
Very true, sadly i don't think that's gonna change anything meaningfully. Hold on to your phyzz.
The LBMA currently trades 160 million oz of gold per day in gross daily trading volume (16 million oz per day net settled volume).
Using a 2x multiplier, that gives an open interest of 300+ million oz. of gold.
Surely there are 300 million oz of physical gold avalable to cover these open contracts.
GOFO is a MOFO
Its just the beginning. The boyz have been accumulating mining shares for a year now and they're ready for the next round..........gl on the ride up
Does anyone actually believe the Swiss people got to vote about the gold? That was probably the most rigged election since the American Fuhrer got "re-elected".
Elections are MEANINGLESS. We have no voice, we have no say. Want change, then grab your torch and pitchfork, because that is the only way it's going to happen.
@Syrin : I came to the conclusion it was the Ultra Conservative Party that pushed this agenda and turned into politics as usual. If they would had just said bring home all the gold and don't sell anymore gold it might have passed. However, they had to push the 20% gold backing which was the nail in the coffin.
I really think they need to push the bill again but this time just request all their gold is brought home to the Swiss.
Are you idiots still buying gold? The gold bull run ended LONG ago - just look at the chart, it looks absoltely terrible. It's time for the cretins on this site to broaden their horizons - there are countless markets out there to choose from, and while investing in them can be daunting, all you need is a little help from a financial advisor. Green technologies are really hot right now as governents start to get serious about funding innovative companies that reduce our carbon footpriint. There are a host of managed mutual funds that can give you exposure to these hot companies, while managing all the compleixities and risk for you. If you're more indiependent and don't want a financial advisor, then the only investments I would reccomend making would be government bonds and US stock indices, as these are proven to produce consistent and superior returns over the long term.
I downvoted you because it's the thing to do.
But seriously... gov't bonds and US stocks? Did you take the blue pill?
Basically In Laymans Terms... Paper GOLD VS PHYS GOLD.
With Unlimitted USD Fiats Shorting Paper GOLD Mixed in To The Equation... Simple Enough?
+1 for MDB, good stuff. Anyone else starting to think that the overlords went all in last night in PMs and came up woefully short?
Hedge accordingly... Long physical, short paper gold...
I know MDB is the biggest troll in existence, but in a way, I actually agree with some of his post today, but for different reasons. I don't understand why people on a financial blog are recommending catching a falling knife. I get lectured all of the time on "this is Econ 101 yada, yada, yada", but last time I looked at entry level economics, it was to "buy low and sell high". As for financial advice (which is at your own risk according to the ZH disclaimer) I would rather listen to a man wearing a suit and tie and being chauffeured to his penthouse with art on his walls, than to listen to a prepper goldbug whose "wealth" are expired cans of food in a trailer with a Mosin Nagant and spam can ammo, bragging about his 20 year old car still runs like a champ. This is a financial blog and some of you posters are comical. I remember in the RichDad novels in the 90s to never take advice from someone who is broke. Most of you brag about how broke you are, yet you want to give advice on how to remain broke. This is a financial blog so I don't get your point. A lot of you should be taking notes, instead of giving out tidbits for others to take notes on your fluff.
So if the market is rigged, why do you think as a joe blow sixpack that you will some how hit it big in it. If its rigged, you WILL be screwed. The stock market is a rigged casino, but at least it is rigged on the upside so you can not lose, because with bailouts and QE, you will not be allowed to lose. For PMs, you will get played like a fiddle, and many prepper patriots got a taste of that in 2011 just like they did on Silver Thursday back in 1980. Same old, same old. This SHTF meme is nothing new, as my parents were trained to hide under their desks when they were schoolchildren in the 1950s from when the Soviets were going to get us. Keep hiding and avoiding life. I wish you all the best doing that.
As for the USD "not having intrinsic value" it actually does. It's called we get to live another day on this planet by accepting USD. These banksters would rather have all-out nuclear annihilation or some bioweapon release, than to have their paper printing alchemy game shut down. That is guaranteed. The "paper it is printed on" is blackmail, and looking at the fluoridated public pacified with NFL rigged games and NBA players flopping around on the floor on their HDTVs, I don't see any change in the forseeable future.
The reason why I post these things is to not win a high school popularity contest with upvotes, but I post contrary opinions to most on here because I want to challenge and expand your beliefs.
There are other opinions out there besides regurgitating Peter Schiff talking points and contrasting them to Paul Krugman.
It just floors me that people missed out on the biggest bull market ever in stawks to buy PMs that have gone down 70%. This is why these "stackers" don't have anything of "wealth" like they claim to have. I've read a lot of your posts over the years, and you talk about buying houses and ford trucks and other things when gold hits $5,000 or $10,000 or some other King World News pie in the sky figure. You could have already had that stuff by now, had you gotten into the bailed out TBTF stawk market. Instead you are stuck with metals that only coin shops want, as I have discovered in my own experience that no one out there is interested in bartering with silver or gold coins. They want USD. If you don't believe me, try it for yourself.
I used to drink the Austrian school koolaid myself back in 2008 and 2009, but quickly realized after doing further homework that these guys are full of it.
I wish you guys all of the best, but I have to go "run and hide" according to the mom's house crowd who spend 14 hours a day on here because I have things to do today. I'm sorry if I can't reply to your kneejerks in a timely matter, but by the time I return, this article will be on Page 3 and no one will read my replies anyways as it has ran off the homepage.
I wish you "stackers" all the best, I really do, but to me the chance to do well in precious metals was last decade, not the one we are in. If there is another bull market in metals, count me in, but until then, falling knives aren't my interest.
One last thing, if you are one of those prepper stack patriot dudes, at least load up on magazines and ammo right now, at these relatively low prices. You'll be better off with that than some gold or silver coins. Those are EASY to sell. If crap really were to hit the fan, you'd be better off with a pallet of PMAGs than a stack of physical. I'm sure if you live in an area that turns into a Ferguson type scenario, magazines are a better utility than an ASE.
Starting your comments with italics to avoid voting on your post is lame, and shows a lack of character. I could search for the little algorithm that would still allow me to down vote your posts, despite this well known ZH glitch, but I don't think you are worth the trouble. I'll just ignore your posts until you are ready to accept the fight club rules, and stop being such a pussy...
He is a fucking pussy. And dead wrong on a lot of things. And rather than take his woeful, pitiful, gloomy and shameless "analysis" on gold apart point by point, I think most ZHers already those answers by now.
Gold lease rates spiking.
Buckle up folks:
http://www.kitco.com/charts/popup/au0365lr.html
Looks same before London Gold Pool collepsed in 1968
Dr 9-
you can be too smart or too dumb.
At this point you can't argue against Billion Dollar Bumpus, the facts are the Dow has gone through the roof. All us smart folks know that it has only got there by nefarious means -but hey- the markets were ever thus.
The correct call was to know that the evil empire was going to print money and give it to their special friends. And keep doing it for as long as it took. Fetid fruitcakes like Krugman still think the answer is moar, moar, moar.
Fact remains, our PM call has been forcibly crushed, and the Dow has been forcibly pumped.
Long term, we all worked out the ending, but the long term doesn't count yet. Would have been better for all of us to have been a little less smart and play the game in front of us. So meantime, we are factually wrong and have to suck it up and congratulate the Bumpus for doubling his money (of course he didn't actually).
Since most of this readership dreams of making easy money in the markets, then we are the current suckers at the roadside, missing the action.
A mighty crash is still coming, now that oil is in play a lot of Wall St is wearing brown pants.
(Buy gold, victory will still be ours)
Victory?? When?? 2025 maybe? Can you wait?
Boy...where do I begin? You are either a nieve or just plain ignorant troll. MDB has lost a step in disguising his real motives whereas you, sir, have much to learn about fight club. BTW, can I assume you took profits from all your paper investments and placed them on loan at your local bank? Smooth move there!!!!
+1000 MDB
Long Solyndra...
When paper ASSets blowup the sphincter, it will be a cruel lesson for those who have no food storage; guns & ammo; or real money gold & silver. Social programs completely tapped out with the free lunch crowd lulled into some duffess gov will save me carnal security. bonzi's will burn to ashes & the USDinker dollar will get blown away in the debt based wealth illusion, as none other reserve currency in history. Smorgasbord of bloated dead bankstering bodies littering the streets of AmeriCON'd.
I had the hankering for some mamarket propaganda so I put on cnbs. Got to see Santelli's rant live, it was a good one. Surely he should stay away from home improvement shops.
If you want really good propaganda, tune in Bloomberg early morning. This mornings segment was, and I kid you not, "Is Gold Worthless"? This was entertainment at its finest.
LOL. "Is Gold Worthless"; gotta give 'em credit; no pussyfootin around. Just wham; here, take this in the face, bitch ! LOL. that's pretty funny alright; worthless Gold, yeah, I'll keep that in mind.
MDB, missed you man! Looks like the new kids don't get your /s
Keep up the good work...it's very entertaining.
Ha. Nathan that's the first thing I saw when I saw those upvotes. MDB believes his own BS though....
I do not think so...
Green Energy has been dead for quite awhile. The Oil Market is collapsing due to lack of demand for any kind of Energy.
MDB can read the same data and knows it. He is not stupid.
He is a pro...He is the Jonathon Swift of ZH. Let's eat those babies.
If you cannot see the intentional trolling dripping from every sentence he writes, I don't know what to say about you.
It is more satire than trolling. It is entertaining.
Oh, the joy you bring me, MDB. I love you, man. You are a thing of beauty. You make reading ZH so fun at times.
Is it just me or does MBD sound just like chindit last night?
Entertaining at any rate.
Logged in to give you some green ;)
MDB:
those are all very good points, and to add to your line of thinking:
don't forget about retirement and saving for the future, that's where myRA comes in - guaranteed, risk-free returns, plus you get to do your patriotic duty and support your country at the same time!
Listen.
MDB is stacking gold from within his mother's basement. ;-)
Maybe so, but I still don't trust the election results. Look at the Irish vote from a few months ago.
.
"Elections are MEANINGLESS."
Just a thought. Many US states held elections where same sex marriage was on the ballot and it was rejected...So sometimes your're gonna get what TPTB want whether you like it or not.
When governments go out of their way to enlist as many uninformed bodies as possilbe to be voters, by using as many means as possilble, we are screwed.
This will be the best security for maintaining our liberties. A nation of well-informed men, who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them, cannot be enslaved. Benjamin Franklin
that's the whole problem with democracy, and why it fails.
as someone (cicero?) put it, democracy only lasts until the public discovers that it can vote itself largesse from the public treasury.
as long as one is dependent upon others making the right choice, one isn't free.
Yes, it was Cicero; and it does seem to be the fatal theme in mass democracies.
Surely.
Well if you want to borrow my gold and pay me interest, I will not accept fiat. I want land as collateral.
What if this GOFO has simply been fake #s? It's after all published by the same crooks manipulating gold market and having little interests letting publics know what is going on under the hood.
GOFO = approx. LIBOR - Gold Lease rate
It would be immediately visible because the lease rate is known by market participants.
and now reflect for a moment about this very special market
A has gold, and leases it to B, for a lease rate. Who is A, and who is B? And why does B lease gold, and then give it back?
Does B always need gold? Does A always lease gold? does this market change at very low LIBOR rates? enjoy
The problem is that B does not lease Gold back to A. B sells the leased Gold on the open market which, in turn, depresses price.
B does not have any Gold to give back to A. That is because China bought it and it is not to be seen on the Open Market for a extended time period.
Thus it becomes more expensive for B to pay the Lease Rates for that Gold because A knows what B has done. If A were to call B's loan then B simply would default.
Gold Lease Rates, like INTEREST RATES, are just an insurance premium paid for the principal of a debt loaned.
Yep. And in the meantime "everyone waits for dollar markets to open."
That says to me that this whole Ponzi in Everything is based on economic recovery in the USA.
Federal Government could just kick all trading to the curb ala World War One...
Economic recovery? Oh yes...
As that cunt Roubini posted on Marketwatch this morning: "[T]his will lead to a strengthening of the U.S. dollar, as growth in the United States is picking up and the Federal Reserve has signaled that it will begin raising interest rates next year. But if global growth remains weak and the dollar becomes too strong, even the Fed may decide to raise interest rates later and more slowly to avoid excessive dollar appreciation."
Jedi mind tricks being played. Full speed ahead on mental conditioning so everyone expects a stronger USD. People must be prepared so a soaring Greenback doesn't raise concerns, although ZH readers are well aware that a stonger USD is the penultimate act before losing reserve currency status, as ROW tries to send their dollars back for something (anything) real.
Anyone smell smoke yet?
Yes, it is "catching fire".
Yep. And in the meantime "everyone waits for dollar markets to open."
That says to me that this whole Ponzi in Everything is based on economic recovery in the USA.
Federal Government could just kick all trading to the curb ala World War One...
Also the gold cobasis shows severe backwardation. It is calculateable from public spot and future bid & ask data.
you can say the same about derivatives contract on US Treasury Bonds for example. But surely there is no shortage of them.
there is a lot of open interest from people who don't want to get delivered anything. ie buyers of paper gold.
whether you like it; or not, they are much bigger than the buyers of the physical stuff, and when they sell, or buy they move the price faster than the physical market be it on the way up or down
Fiat gold. If it's all you have when the music stops, then you don't have fuckall.
Actually, there is a shortage of USTs, and "money-good" collateral in general, as evidenced by the high number of failures to deliver and falling interest rates.
Yes, the paper market sets the price, but remember that players in that sandbox don't want or need physical gold. They want to make money by betting on the movements in the gold price.
Some big players must be thinking, 'Surely Not'.
The phyz for most holders is singing a sweet song in view of the long term outcome of manipulation through the years...
DaddyO
I don't think anybody big enough to be leasing gold and changing GOFO was under any illusions about the outcome of Sunday's vote.
(Even if it had passed, the SNB is nominally one of "them" so their actions in the highly unlikely event of a "yes" - would have caused absolute minimal dislocations in the marketplace.)
Pinto Currency, "open interest" is not related to "daily trading volume".
see http://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/openinterest.asp
Yeah its funny how there's not much of a paper palladium market and it has stayed extremely strong through this manipulated downdraft.
But, but, but... I just read about the end of the commodity supercycle. "Oil prices cracked below $70 per barrel after OPEC declined to cut production. Gold sank toward $1150 an ounce after a Swiss vote to compel more central bank gold buying failed and gold holdings in the SPDR Gold ETF (GLD) shrank to a six-year low."
The article also told me, "This deflationary wave has swamped a huge commodity production and investment infrastructure that [was set] off more than a decade ago with the rise of China as an industrial power and voracious refiner of raw materials."
Remember, the Fed governors all swore no more QE until you folks beg for it! (But be careful what you wish for.)
Source: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/oil--gold-crash-spell-end-of-commodity--su...
And speaking of the GLD holdings, is anyone else tracking the withdrawals? It seems like every other day another 2 tons slips out the door. Just another data point showing that you're supposed to believe "no one" wants Au and "every one" is selling.
Out of curiosity, does "any one" know where all the former GLD gold is going? Someone must want it...
You beat me to it. My Pd has remained in a pretty steady price range.
Most palladium comes from Russia, so tensions between Russia and the West will tend to increase the palladium price. Palladium is also an industrial metal heavily used in the auto industry, so increased car production will raise the price - but channel stuffing and 0% interest for 5 years for anybody who can fog a mirror can only last so long.
And when Russia and China are buying physical. They wouldn't be doing that without a reason.
DavidC
Swiss referendum was, is and will be a non-event.
Depends who really planned it. I can totally see the cartel planning the whole charade, then the results coming out showing a "landslide in favor of fiat". Voting is controlled, as are the markets, so you have to wonder why the project was initiated to begin with. I think it was for show to give fuel for a continued anti gold PR campaign by the Western banks and Fed.
With language that the Swiss gold could "never" be sold, the initiative "never" had a chance. That language doomed the measure, and the author(s) surely knew that. Your call as to motive.
I actually thought it would pass....the Swiss are pretty consertative....and the immigration question too....guess they are going down the same road as we are...the road to Hell....if the Euro craters ..the swiss are toast with all they have bought and will have to buy...
It's all one big conspiracy, isn't it, Bob? :-)
election was over, the au is bottomed, and the US$ is topped. the crude oil is in the process of bottoming, the saudi cannot tolerate their stock market another 10% dropping. 2015 will be so interesting.
If the stock market goes down, everything goes down.
If treasury yields go up, everything goes down.
If Japan blows up, everything blows up
If Europe blows up, everything blows up.
If China blows up, everything blows up.
If a major bank fails, everything blows up.
That is just a few black swans that could cause the whole
World Ponzi to collapse and there are many more.
So gold looks like a pretty good place to be right now.
Wake up world and get a hold on some real money before
It is too late.
Let's not forget about some sort of pandemic like Ebola. SCG has a new video up on the subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIDmK5qwarU&list=UUEHsSWvrGVSIA63OV3J6vhA
That GOFO chart seems to synchronize nicely (with a ~1mo lag) of those FRBNY foreign gold outflowz.
Just sayin.
One ounce of elemental tungsten sells for about 89 cent .
Just sayin
Trade secret,
CEASE AND DESIST.
CEASE AND DESIST.
Does the Frisch device work for assaying purity of gold?
Have there been any reports of counterfeits slipping through the reputable (but higher commssions) firms lkike APMEX, etc?
There's been one report that I know of where a tungsten fake made it through a legit dealer and a Fisch failed to detect it. If you're concerned, you really want to use a UTG and not a Fisch gauge. The Fisch is just a finely tuned coin sizer and balance. While difficult to fool, a tungsten coin can in fact pass the tests.
These guys used to have a challenge where they could pay spot for any fake coin that passed the Fisch test. Not anymore.
Seek
Didn't the Tyler's run something about tungsten being unable to withstand stamping as it would crack? Pour only in other words ? Just axing
It's very hard to work with, but the proof is in the pictures. Perhaps it was stamped hot, or someone invested some serious effort into casting molds and used the plating to take the stamp.
Tyler, please don't show this GOFO every other day, you are going to give them a heart attack, they want this to be in secret, they will stop issuing the Gofo rates or play with the numbers :)
The M3 excuse: It's just too expensive to calculate.
GOFO = Libor - Gold Lease Rate
They cannot hide Libor. They cannot hide the Gold Lease Rate.
As for Libor...It has been manipulated and the fraud was exposed.
LBMA already stopped providing it for Silver. Now they think about doing the same for Gold: http://seekingalpha.com/article/2485745-lbma-might-stop-reporting-gofo-rates
Breaking the thermometers...
Rob Kirby of Kirby Analytics emphatically states that large scale gold purchases in Asia are currently being conducted at $1800-$2000/oz because physical gold just isn't available for sale at today's spot price.
http://www.goldsqueeze.com/analysis/rob-kirby-gold-selling-for-50-over-s...
Complete bullshit.
Is it?
How many Tonnes have you purchased?
He is reporting about deliveries of Metric Tonnes. He brokers trades of that volume.
Do you?
Do you have any idea how difficult it is to acquire Metric Tonnes? No?
You need to ask the Germans about that.
I think as soon as you mentioned the metric system you lost him...
He only understands gold metrics in feet and yards....
Thanks for the link, Maplehood. Kirby's been a favorite of mine for years. Speaks the truth, like Professor Fekete, mentioned in a comment below.
Kirby pulls no punches in the interview with Greg Hunter, calls banking and dollar hegemony a massive fraud. Must see.
50% over spot sounds realistic for tonnage. I would venture to say that silver has lower premiums (paid less than 10% on ebay recently), but likely higher for larger amounts, which makes being an American serf these days, highly profitable, if the long-term implications are correct.
Just for the heck of it, a theory popped into my head a few days ago, when considering the absurdly low valuation of silver.
Recall that the US used to be a bi-metallic system, until the central bankers broke that in the late 18th century (the Wizard of Oz was based upon those events). Why was - and is - it so important for CBs to devalue silver? Simple answer: to impoverish the common man, who generally cannot afford much gold, but can acquire silver with relative ease.
However, if one were to spend one's fiat on silver which is devalued by orders of magnitude, what does that do to one's wealth?
It severely diminishes it, and, that is exactly the point. Silver at a 72:1 ratio to gold is worth a whole lot less than silver at a 16:1 ratio.
This whole thing is breaking wide open in the next few years (or months or weeks) and it is my belief that individual holders of gold and silver - but especially silver - will be richly rewarded for their patience and foresight.
Happy Holidays to gold and silver hoarders everywhere. And a warning: don't take your PMs out for a boat ride. They have a nasty habit of falling overboard, even on calm days.
Grey Hunter's USA Watchdog is a scary website. I ususally need at least two glasses of wine to calm my nerve after reading.
When asked about this article, a spokesman for the SNB said "You see? We saved the Swiss people a great deal of money because gold is now more expensive than it was just a few days ago. To put it another way, fool me once, shame on you, fool me again, my hands would have been tied because of gold"
Seems to have been all down hill for the Swiss since the softer sex got the vote a few years ago. Emotional propaganda seems much more effective now.
Same can be said of the US women's sufferage component.
BTW, women voted heavily for the NAZI party in 1932/33.
Unfortchantly, women prefer to believe they are safe and secure (total falsehood) than free. You would think that Feminist would be all about women having firearms as well as the training for them. But that wouldn't go along with the BS feminist line would it.
Both excellent points by you and Pope Clement - and valid they are. It is not a slam against women to suggest that they are prone to decisions made upon the emotional component. It's actually a compliment, for without that component, motherhood would be quite different - if not non-existent. It is therefore not a stretch to suggest many of the ills in the U.S. are borne of an overweighted emotional component to our socio-political structure, as opposed to objectivity and reason.
This article is a confused hot mess, aka garbage. Strong demand causes....price decline?
This cherry picks a few jargon-laced facts, nothing more. The GOFO and the volatility are important, and perhaps related, but mush articles like this are an embarrassment.
Please ZH, edit this stuff before you post it.
Antal Fekete was predicting to have a Permanent backwardation for the final phase of gold price supression, this may be the time....
Is this because they are manipulating price using futures or is it because there is a disconnect between paper and actual gold and the paper is perceived as being worth less in the future?
My belief is that the entire situation is contrived because gold has little value as a commodity and must be perceived as money for it to have a high price. From a commodity standpoint the world is awash in excess gold that will never be put into productive use. However, if it is the defacto money of last resort then its price will eventually reflect that, since the world needs money.
The problem with gold being the defacto money of last resort for the world is that the people (governments) with armies and guns will have to decide that is what they want and that is what benefits them.
The nearest gold futures contract has been in backwardation for more than a month already (here's a chart of the December 2014), and this has persisted right through the roll over into the next contract, February, which has the cobasis spike positive from the day the contract becomes the nearest (see today's chart). Not only that, but backwardation spread all the way to the June 2015 contract. It looks like things are going towards permanent backwardation, but we have to wait and see if the trend persists.
All the data is from Keith Weiner's Monetary Metals Supply and Demand Reports (access requires free sign-up). I would definitely recommend reading it right now.
@pseudonymous. Thanks for the heads up. Keith Weiner's Monetary Metals Supply and Demand Reports is awesome. Much appreciated.
Thanks for the heads up on that website.
yeah, all perfectly normal action from last weds to today...
got some mo' on saturday at the local coin dealer...
DEATH TO THE MONEYCHANGERS.
Gold cheap because there's a shortage, and downturn is due to poor export orders, which are up.
Mondays are fucked up.
Ah, so that's what caused gold to recover to its October highs.. oh wait, no it hasn't. I swear there could be an article saying "cosmic rays causing 90% of all gold to degrade into lead" and gold would jump 0.4% on the news.
I was waiting for the Swiss referendum result on Sunday to see whether I should order PM or not. I get up in the morning, silver under 15, sounds logical. I planned to order after I'm done with work, now silver almost 16.4. I hope Tyler is right when he says phys starts to play a role. Otherwise it's just insanity.
Well, you learned something today; it will be part of seperating you from the public and making you a trader; when you see the price you want; t here is no "after work", there is no "after a bathroom break", there is no, "after another cup of coffee"; there is only grab that phone and hit speed dial and get your order in.
Oh so, gold should be up but it isn't?
Who gives a fuck about the "gofo" rate? I know there is a shortage of gold. Demand has been rising. As long as banks are allowed to make their own money and distort competing investments- the shitshow continues.
Hit the down arrow some more you gofo worshippers. Maybe that will make the price of gold go up.
Sorry to piss in the punchbowl, but negative GOFO can be the result of speculators desperately accumulating gold to then short it. Let's not cream our jeans here...
Explain what happens when there is a physical shortage and massive shorts cover.
Right. Impossible suicidal scheme.
"Accumulating gold to then short it".
Just a naïve question : how can you short it if you have it ?
So negative GOFO sets an interim floor in the price. The price rises to 1300 to relieve some of the pressure and TPTB slam it back down even farther. Rinse and repeat. They've got this all under control it seems. Nothing the MONIAC cannot handle.
Exactly. This shit decoupled in 2011 and everytime someone wants their gold back the price drops. First it was Venezuela, then Germany, then the Dutch. The corresponding price drops are simply unexplainable- particularly in light of the decoupling of our world's rising debt levels and QE programs everywhere. The price of gold right now should be 2500. That is fair value and a helluva lot closer to the actual price than the actual price. Lol
Play the same game. Let it ride up then short it on the way down. Then take your profits and buy Physical Gold and set aside some for taxes.. In that way your stack costs you nothing.
Rinse and repeat. And when they finally lose control...you will have your stack.
This pretend math can not go on forever. When will real gold phyz math hit reality?
Like I said: This context of GOFO with still falling paper prices makes sense only if those after the physical, mainly, are central banks. This means that what we are seeing is simply a reallocation of expropriated gold among those who expropriated it. The rest of us mortals are still on the sidelines.
Listen, the gold market is working exactly as it should. Take it from me, I was in Venezuela recently and was able to witness first hand how shortages play out. Take toilet paper for example: the more scarce it became, the faster the price PLUNGED. It was the same story with bread and milk. As the shelves emptied, the prices fell...so low in fact, that no one would dare buy the last few items because they were too inexpensive! I actually saw hungry customers just standing there in the market waiting for prices to go up. Meanwhile did you know that in Caracas, a gallon jug of Tide detergent can be had for less than the price of a stick of chewing gum?
</Extreme sarcasm>
In sarcasm is truth.
The paper price of gold can go to $35 - but I doubt one could find any at that price.
Just like the gang in Venezula decrees a gallon of Tide shall cost $2.69.
Now, you mght find some for sale at a different price elsewhere while the store shelves are bare . . .
Will someone step up and buy all the COMEX contracts and demand delivery?
It's an easy farce to reveal.
Let's see some fireworks in the market.
Maybe the Rothschild syndicate used our trillions to figure out the alchemical process to turn base metals into gold!! So they're "helping" us by dumping our national treasure. Yea, that's it.
Flying a jet into Ukraine at 2:00 AM to take away their gold at first glimpse of trouble, was quite a statement.
Gold's plight has been obvious for a long time according to this prescient alalysis that says gold will rise for a good while to come...
http://www.globaldeflationnews.com/gold-elliott-waves-forecast-a-multi-m...
More bullshit. The price might go up unless the price goes down. Prescient analysis my ass. I've been reading the same BS for 7 years.
Dont understand this obsession about swisscide referendum.
It never was the point.
Non-event.
Paper Gold is the chair they take away when playing musical chairs.
I am never looking at Kitco overnight again. I almost had a heart attack last night. This reversal is awesome and insane at the same time. I want to hope that the tide is turning, but we will probably be smacked back down tonight.
Kitco sucks, try this:
http://netdania.com/Products/live-streaming-currency-exchange-rates/real...|netdania_fxa&name=Silver,%20spot
That can be hypnotic especially when looking at one minute action.
It passes the time...
So do you prefer to have your heart attack in the morning as a good start off to your day?
Okay...okay...bad humor...I know.
Personally I prefer declining prices as I am interested in buying.
Any speculator can gain in a Bull Run. Buy low, hold, sell higher.
The Bear Runs take the speculators out. They are not as clever. You can gain during price declines. Of course it takes a degree of finesse..
These types of markets separate the pretenders from the contenders. They are my favorite in that sense.
Slightly off topic - but when was the last time the American people received an auditor's report on the gold purportedly owned and held by the federal government?
Or is it like suing to find out who owns the NY Fed, and the muppets are told that it's none of their business?
There has been no independent audit ever. No gold has been seen for over 40 years. The treasury by law, can sell gold without reporting it. So whoever continues to state that the US has 8100 tons is stating this based on a 40 year old piece of information that they assume is still accurate.
Fort Knox has no gold, that's BS. But they do have 7400 tons of Gold plated Tungsten!!
Bet anyone - go drill out a bar you will find out.
And the Fed is a private institution, so U.S. gold purportedly held at the New York Fed can never be inspected, let alone audited.
The Federal Reserve secretly leant out $16.3 Trillion to European banks.
THEY DO WHATEVER THEY LIKE
According to Kirby ( on USA watchdog ) the big Asian customers ( > 5 tonnes ) of physical gold are now paying spot price plus 50 PERCENT ( 1800-2000 US$/ounce ). Because the physical is no longer available.
Isn't that what Harvy Organ was implying not so long ago? And then a nice court order shut his site down.
Harvey was shut down without any specific reason given. The implied reason was that he violated some term of his blog's hosting rules which they did not specifically tell him. He was not shut down by court order unless something new has been discovered.
The same thing happened to me a few years ago when I opened a site criticizing President Five Iron and his royal edicts. Gone. Poof. No explanation.
"Harvey was shut down without any specific reason given. The implied reason was that he violated some term of his blog's hosting rules which they did not specifically tell him."
Host your website with an Icelandic hosting services provider and you will have 99.99% assurance your government, either directly or indirectly, will not be able to shut you down for your political or economic opinions. For those in need of free secure and encrypted email/texting/videoconferencing service, I highly recommend Unseen.is. I have been using them for almost 6 months now with no problems whatsoever.
You may want to read this before using Unseen.is
http://cryto.net/~joepie91/blog/2014/04/19/why-you-should-stay-away-from...
His site was shut down, but his steadfast prediction for this December/early 2015 remains. There looks to be enough 'weirdness' in the market right now that his prognostication could still hold...?
How about that silver price, from $15.36 Friday to $14.16 overnight to $16.42 this morning, if these charts are worth anything. Some big players find a way to arbitrage the markets? Did Janet wake up this morning and decide to support oil and PMs?
Infreakingsanity.
Gas under $3.00 today in Rochester, NY. Hip, hip, hooray for the price manipulators!
They're losing control at a rapid clip. Meanwhile, gold and silver have skyrocketed off their overnight lows and continue higher (hope I didn't jinx them).
The year is 2020. I have a farm, you have 20 tons of gold. You are hungry, how many tons of gold should I charge you for a pound of potatoes?
Your scenario is one proffered routinely. Unfortunately, it's basically a false premise. Reality lies somewhere in the middle as both edibles and stores of value/honest exchange currency will both be required to sustain anything approaching reasonable human interaction.
If he were the ONLY farmer with potatoes then he would have a point.
But there will be many other farmers whom will compete and leave his potatoes to rot.
Then he will be without potatoes to sell and without Gold. WHAT A LOSER.
Potatoes are perishable whereas Gold is not subject to decay.
Gold will probably always be too expensive for things like food and clothing; for that there is silver. Now, gold for a tractor or a piece of land would make sense.
How much food are you writing about?
How much clothing are you writing about?
Do not think small and only about your personal needs.
Just whom is going to pick up the pieces after this mess falls apart?
The ones whom have the Gold will be in the best position to help rebuild it. As we have the wealth then we will have the input as to how it will be rebuilt. He who has the Gold makes the rules.
I will have a town to feed. I will need the entire crop for that.