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Tensions Between US & Russia Are Worse Than You Realize – Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov
Submitted by Mike Krieger via Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,
“I am young, I am twenty years old; yet I know nothing of life but despair, death, fear, and fatuous superficiality cast over an abyss of sorrow. I see how peoples are set against one another, and in silence, unknowingly, foolishly, obediently, innocently slay one another.”
– Erich Maria Remarque, All Quiet on the Western Front
Despite an interest in geopolitics, I haven’t really written anything on the concerning and worsening tension between the government of the United States and the government of Russia. I intentionally wrote government twice in order to emphasize the fact that 99.9% of Americans do not have real grievances with actual Russian people, and vice versa. This is a high-level conflict between powerful “leaders” playing a game of Risk with average citizen as pawns. This is how it’s always been. As human beings, we should never lose sight of this so the mistakes we make in the future aren’t nearly as tragic as those made by our ancestors.
One disconcerting thing I have noticed amongst some “liberty-minded” people I follow, is a knee-jerk tendency to pick a side in this affair. When it comes to powerful men running centralized nation-states with nuclear weapons, there are no church boys involved. I have noticed a desire to defend Russia every step of the way in what appears to be a simple-minded emotional reflex birthed in justifiable disgust with what they see happening in their home nations (the U.S. and UK in particular).
This behavior has always made me uncomfortable, and reminds me very much of how people get upset with one fake political party and then vote for the other guy simply because they are not a Democrat or a Republican. The best choice is to accept they are both useless and not vigorously defend either party. I take the same tact when it comes to battles between nation-states. Just because I am disgusted and horrified with what is happening in these United States, doesn’t mean I need to slavishly defend Russia, Vladimir Putin or pick any sides in a conflict in which the primary losers will always be powerless civilians.
I’ve never been to Russia, thus my opinion of the country is basically worthless. Nevertheless, based on what I have read and observed, I’d still much rather live in the U.S. than Russia despite all of our society’s failings and decay in recent decades. While this view could certainly change as time and events unfold, that is how I strongly feel at the moment. Putin is by all accounts an authoritarian cult-like leader who wants to ban Bitcoin, journalism can be a deadly affair, and oligarchs continue to run free (as long as you are friends with Putin). Recall my recent post: American Upper Middle Class Share of Wealth is Worse than Every Country Besides Russia and Indonesia. Yes, “besides Russia and Indonesia.” Russia is no economic utopia.
Nevertheless, this piece isn’t meant to be a pointless debate about which overly-centralized, archaic and corrupt nation-state is better than the other. Neither place has a political or economic structure that even comes close to providing a fertile environment in which human existence can reach its highest potential. Rather, both nation-states are controlled by a small group of ambitious, authoritarian and, when necessary, ruthless and violent men and women. That said, there are two reasons I think the following remarks by Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov are so important.
First, as someone who spends much of his time analyzing and critiquing the many destructive policy decisions made by American “leaders,” I was shocked to find how accurate his description of the U.S. power structure’s mindset seems to be. He gets it, and he is more or less trying to warn the world that America’s leaders are basically power-drunk children. I concur.
Second, Lavrov also describes the negative impact that this behavior has had on the Russian psyche generally. He expresses dismay that the U.S. status quo sees the world as unipolar, and attempts to tackle every problem from the perspective that might is right. In no uncertain terms, Lavrov makes it clear that Russia will not stand for this. I don’t think the Russians are bluffing, so this is a very dangerous situation.
If there was actually someone in the U.S. State Department capable of such introspective and clear thinking, we might actually diffuse this situation. Don’t hold your breath.
Here are some excerpts from Mr. Lavrov’s remarks at the XXII Assembly of the Council on Foreign and Defence Policy in Moscow on November 22, 2014. The whole thing can be found here, which I strongly suggesting reading in full.
I’m happy to be at this annual Assembly of the Council on Foreign and Defence Policy (Russian abbreviation SVOP). It is always a great pleasure for me to meet people and feel the intellectual potential, which enables the Council, its leaders and representatives to respond to global developments and analyse them. Their analysis is always free from any hysteria, and its members offer well-grounded and solid arguments, taking a step back, since those caught in the midst of events can hardly adopt an unbiased perspective. We are inevitably influenced by the developments, which makes your observations, analysis, discourse and suggestions even more valuable to us.
Naturally, I will start with Ukraine. Long before the country was plunged into the crisis, there was a feeling in the air that Russia’s relations with the EU and with the West were about to reach their moment of truth. It was clear that we could no longer continue to put issues in our relations on the back burner and that a choice had to be made between a genuine partnership or, as the saying goes, “breaking pots.” It goes without saying that Russia opted for the former alternative, while unfortunately our Western partners settled for the latter, whether consciously or not. In fact, they went all out in Ukraine and supported extremists, thereby giving up their own principles of democratic regime change. What came out of it was an attempt to play chicken with Russia, to see who blinks first. As bullies say, they wanted to Russia to “chicken out” (I can’t find a better word for it), to force us to swallow the humiliation of Russians and native speakers of Russian in Ukraine.
Honourable Leslie Gelb, whom you know all too well, wrote that Ukraine’s Association Agreement with the EU had nothing to do with inviting Ukraine to join the EU and was aimed in the short term at preventing it from joining the Customs Union. This is what an impartial and unbiased person said. When they deliberately decided to go down the path of escalation in Ukraine, they forgot many things, and had a clear understanding of how such moves would be viewed in Russia. They forgot the advice of, say, Otto von Bismarck, who had said that disparaging the millions-strong great Russian people would be the biggest political mistake.
President Vladimir Putin said the other day that no one in history has yet managed to subjugate Russia to its influence. This is not an assessment, but a statement of fact. Yet such an attempt has been made to quench the thirst for expanding the geopolitical space under Western control, out of a mercantile fear to lose the spoils of what they across the Atlantic had persuaded themselves was the victory in the Cold War.
The plus of today’s situation is that everything has clicked into its place and the calculus behind the West’s actions has been revealed despite its professed readiness to build a security community, a common European home. To quote (singer/song-writer) Bulat Okudzhava, “The past is getting clearer and clearer.” The clarity is becoming more tangible. Today our task is not only to sort out the past (although that must be done), but most importantly, to think about the future.
Talks about Russia’s isolation do not merit serious discussion. I need hardly dwell on this before this audience. Of course, one can damage our economy, and damage is being done, but only by doing harm to those who are taking corresponding measures and, equally important, destroying the system of international economic relations, the principles on which it is based. Formerly, when sanctions were applied (I worked at the Russian mission to the UN at the time) our Western partners, when discussing the DPRK, Iran or other states, said that it was necessary to formulate the restrictions in such a way as to keep within humanitarian limits and not to cause damage to the social sphere and the economy, and to selectively target only the elite. Today everything is the other way around: Western leaders are publicly declaring that the sanctions should destroy the economy and trigger popular protests. So, as regards the conceptual approach to the use of coercive measures the West unequivocally demonstrates that it does not merely seek to change Russian policy (which in itself is illusory), but it seeks to change the regime — and practically nobody denies this.
We hear the daily repeated mantra that Washington is aware of its own exclusiveness and its duty to bear this burden, to lead the rest of the world. Rudyard Kipling spoke about “the white man’s burden.” I hope that this is not what drives Americans. The world today is not white or black, but multi-coloured and heterogeneous. Leadership in this world can be assured not by persuading oneself of one’ exclusiveness and God-given duty to be responsible for everyone, but only by the ability and craft in forming a consensus. If the US partners committed their power to this goal, this would be priceless, and Russia would be actively helping them.
However, so far, US administrative resources still work only in the NATO framework, and then with substantial reservations, and its writ does not reach beyond the North Atlantic Alliance. One proof of this is the results of US attempts to make the world community follow its line in connection with the anti-Russian sanctions and principles. I have spoken about it more than once and we have ample proof of the fact that American ambassadors and envoys across the world seek meetings at the highest level to argue that the corresponding countries are obliged to punish Russia together with them or else face the consequences. This is done with regard to all countries, including our closest allies (this speaks volumes about the kind of analysts Washington has). An overwhelming majority of the states with which we have a continuing dialogue without any restrictions and isolation, as you see, value Russia’s independent role in the international arena. Not because they like it when somebody challenges the Americans, but because they realize that the world order will not be stable if nobody is allowed to speak his mind (although privately the overwhelming majority do express their opinion, but they do not want to do so publicly for fear of Washington’s reprisals).
Many reasonable analysts understand that there is a widening gap between the global ambitions of the US Administration and the country’s real potential. The world is changing and, as has always happened in history, at some point somebody’s influence and power reach their peak and then somebody begins to develop still faster and more effectively. One should study history and proceed from realities. The seven developing economies headed by BRICS already have a bigger GDP than the Western G7. One should proceed from the facts of life, and not from a misconceived sense of one’s own grandeur.
In attempting to establish their pre-eminence at a time when new economic, financial and political power centers are emerging, the Americans provoke counteraction in keeping with Newton’s third law and contribute to the emergence of structures, mechanisms, and movements that seek alternatives to the American recipes for solving the pressing problems. I am not referring to anti-Americanism, still less about forming coalitions spearheaded against the United States, but only about the natural wish of a growing number of countries to secure their vital interests and do it the way they think right, and not what they are told “from across the pond.” Nobody is going to play anti-US games just to spite the United States. We face attempts and facts of extra-territorial use of US legislation, the kidnapping of our citizens in spite of existing treaties with Washington whereby these issues are to be resolved through law enforcement and judicial bodies.
According to its doctrine of national security, the United States has the right to use force anywhere, anytime without necessarily asking the UN Security Council for approval. A coalition against the Islamic State was formed unbeknownst to the Security Council. I asked Secretary of State John Kerry why have not they gone to the UN Security Council for this.
Francis Fukuyama recently wrote the book, Political Order and Political Decay, in which he argues that the efficiency of public administration in the United States is declining and the traditions of democratic governance are gradually being replaced with feudal fiefdom ruling methods. This is part of the discussion about someone who lives in a glass house and throws stones.
Indeed, describing, lamenting and suggesting remedies for the above is basically what Liberty Blitzkrieg is all about. Don’t forget, an academic study from Princeton and Northwestern already proved the U.S. is nothing more than an oligarchy. See: New Report from Princeton and Northwestern Proves It: The U.S. is an Oligarchy.
So far, those who are not guided by real problems, but rather by a desire to quickly grab things from freshly turned up ground. It is deplorable. Exporting revolutions – be they democratic, communist or others – never brings any good.
I can’t fail to mention Russia’s comprehensive partnership with China. Important bilateral decisions have been taken, paving the way to an energy alliance between Russia and China. But there’s more to it. We can now even talk about the emerging technology alliance between the two countries. Russia’s tandem with Beijing is a crucial factor for ensuring international stability and at least some balance in international affairs, as well as ensuring the rule of international law. We will make full use of our relations with India and Vietnam, Russia’s strategic partners, as well as the ASEAN countries. We are also open to expanding cooperation with Japan, if our Japanese neighbours can look at their national interests and stop looking back at some overseas powers.
There is no doubt that the European Union is our largest collective partner. No one intends to “shoot himself in the foot” by renouncing cooperation with Europe, although it is now clear that business as usual is no longer an option. This is what our European partners are telling us, but neither do we want to operate the old way. They believed that Russia owed them something, while we want to be on an equal footing. For this reason, things will never be the same again. That said, I’m confident that we will be able to overcome this period, lessons will be learned and a new foundation for our relations will emerge.
The similarities to the period just before WWI are indeed striking, as Niall Ferguson noted in an excellent Op-Ed in August. Hopefully we can be smarter this go around.
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What a revelation! People are nice.
Most people are nice. Most people just want to be left alone.
Governments and the assholes Soros and Buffet are the rulers. If we broke it all down, we might not be as rich, but we sure as shit would be happier.
+1 yep.
I have been to Russia twice and have been very impressed with the Russian people. The 'man of the street' interviews in the US point to a relative naive, ignorant, and distracted people who are not connected to the rest of the people in the world. The Russian 'man of the street' is much more connected to global affairs and the importance of politics in and to their lives. Putin, to the Russian, represents a new resurgence of national pride to be celebrated. With his popularity resting around 80%, the Russian people have confidence in their Leader and his administration of their country and will until their everyday lives deteriorate. Since the Russian people have had it much worse for a long time this is not going to happen.
With this in mind one can see a nation in decline facing two nation states in ascension and belonging to the former I lament. The ideal that set foundation to this nation have been compromised by a small cadre of selfish, myopic small men who have lost all connection with the sacrifice of past generations and are now leading us headlong into a hedonist and narcissistic hell.
In my career, I have seen many times that the tenor of the organization naturally tends to the wishes, ethics, and demeanor of its leader. The past three presidents and congressional leadership for the last 20 years has been pathetic and have led a whole generation toward the edge of the abyss and we now stand facing the consequences of our poor choices.
If the whole world is run by a small group of elite controllers, the world banking families, or the Illuminati then all this makes no differences and we are all on the road to serfdom, but if politics matters in the affairs of man, I see Mr. Putin leading his people forward and Mr. Obama is leading his to oblivion.
Thank you for your insights. I quite agree with your really well expressed sentiments.
Thank you for publishing Lavrov's remarks. Nothing I didn't know. Or suspect.
You timing was perfect, with the Russian announcement today that South Stream was foregone, as the pressure on Bulgaria was too overwhelming.
Turkey will get what it wanted from Russia for the pipeline there, but the Turkish quid pro quo probably will remove it from the EU/NATO orbit. Not a bad consolation prize for Putin.
I have one worry. The Worst Case Scenario.
That Washington, Moscow and Beijing have secretly divided the world into three parts. Like Orwell's prophetic novel. Don't go sniffing through Obama's garbage looking for proof, because you wouldn't know it until it's fait accompli. 'Nuf said.
With that in mind, these questions bother me a little.
Why didn't Putin strongly advise Viktor Yanukovych to use water cannon when the Maidan began to fill up in early December? He could have iced the sreets around the Rada a half mile in all directions.
Why has Putin continued cooperation with the West regarding ISS?
Why hasn't Putin threatened to turn off the gas or turned it off for a day or two?
The answer is that Putin is a decent man compared to scumbags running the US, UK, Australia, Canada, Sweden and the other dwarves of Europe.
And he will not let Russia climb down into the gutter with them
Oh, I don't know about that, Putin is a pretty slick fellow
I think you are right about the idea that they have already split things up 3 ways
kind of like after ww2
I am expecting some collateral damage
NYC seems to be an easy target
like a punch in the mouth
Don't distract. Why not? NYC due a "terrorist" attack or something?
Had some spare time today went around counting houses with Russian flags in the front yard.
how could you see them through the sea of blue star of david flags.
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Sergei Lavrov is avery "cool" guy. A diplomat from central casting,to be sure. Without passion, he lays out the situation.
What distinguishes Lavrov from the most from his counterparts in the west, appears to be his somber understanding of where all this is heading. America, with all its vassal states in tow, do not care to appreciate the tremendous amount of human suffering that lays ahead, if Russia is forced to choose between humiliation and war. To the West humiliation would be the obvious choice. That is ultimately going to prove to be an error with tragic consequences.
The clique that are pulling the strings on the political leaders in the West are under no illusions. They intend to survive the confrontation with Russia unscathed and ever more powerful. It matters not to them if it is resolved in their favor through military or financial means.
So if Lavrov wants to perform reality check than here it is:
EU GDP is ~18trillion USD
Russia GDP (before RUB crashed) ~2 trillion USD
And its not the BRICS that invaded Ukraine and annexed Crimea and occupied part of east Ukraine - its Putin regime.
And Putin regiime shoul explain russians how come year ago it was 33 RUB for 1 USD but now its 53 RUB for 1 USD. Should explain how undeveloped economy they have if its based mainly on oil.
Russia sovereign debt/GDP = 13.1%;
US sovereign debt/GDP = 101.5%
Russian goverment may not be in debt but it's main companies that it's whole economey is based - is in huge debt and it has to pay of in USD & EUR, so if now oil prices are low they lack USD so they can't pay off loan and can't take new ones in western markets due to sanctions.
Putin regime is srewed :)
well, well look who is back.
how does it feel to live in an occupied country?
now that the ussa is parking there military hardware there full time, so training can continue full time. lol
it took 5b$ to sack UE. it took nothing to occupy LV.
foolish people you are.
First of all you are using internet troll tactics, in this case red herring:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exdK7Lirngg
So you are a ruskie troll that desperatly wants to change subject from crashing Putin regime RUB.
Second, you dont even know definition of words because NATO member country is not occupied if this NATO member country asks for military support in it's teritory and other NATO member countries respond to this request and comes for help.
You should check dictionary before using words.
it is what it is. call it whatever you like. lol
It's called military support. And we the people of Latvia asked for it in order to protect our nation from mad aggresive Putin regime that has invaded occupied and even annexed neighboring contries like Georgia, Ukraine. And as more and more aggresive Putin regime get's and more border incidents both in air and in sea appears - we asked military help from our official allies and they responded to our request. You can try to name white as black and black as white - but it doesn't change reality as much as you ruskie troll wanted to twist it.
Dude
Your English is getting so perfect, it's hard to believe you're the same Latvian potato face.
Did you have a twin brother when you were born, and you stayed in Riga and he went to Cornell?
viedoklis_lv So when the phony NATO/Russia crisis is over, did the US military give you guarantees to leave, LOL? You Latvians deserve your slavery.
>we asked military help from our official allies and they responded to our request.
Nothing quite like turning your country into a target...
Am I a "ruskie troll" as well? Perhaps everyone here is a "ruskie troll"... You never know where you might find a "ruskie troll"... Why they could even be hiding under Vanšu tilts at this very moment.
Standard Disclaimer: Lighten up, Frances.
Approximate 2013 seasonally adjusted* GDP of Latvian S.S.R. = potato
*adjusted for potato season
Dude give it a rest. Either youre a paid agent in which case youre not having an impact- try somewhere else. Or you genuinely believe this idiocy you spout in which case youre probably a lost case and just go away, go annoy people elsewhere. You might have noticed no one agrees with you and you have not convinced anyone yet.
Go read some books. Try to make something out of that useless grey mass between your ears.
"You should check dictionary before using words."
You too my dear Latvian troll:
"...other NATO member countries respond to this request and comes for help."
Correct English: other NATO member countries respond to this request and "come to help".
tch tch.
"Carry On Trolling."
viedoklis_Latvian S.S.R. told:
Ah, viedoklis, made me laugh. Latvian S.S.R. is not NATO member country. Latvian S.S.R. is NATO member parking lot.
Nobody comes to rescue parking lot.
The sadness of a delusion when it appears for what it is...
Well, the obvious solution is for the Russian companies who you claim have "huge debt[s]" in USD and Euros is to default and blame it on to Obola's and EU sanctions. That may help to bring down the Western banking system.
End of problem. Obola and the EU-crats may still have enough brain cells left to realise that actions have consequences.
smacker, many of the companies he mentions are at least in part in the hands of the government. "Too Big To Fail" with bells and whistles
the Russian state can't afford to let them default. besides the cascading debt problem, it's also a matter of face
Russian companies - government owned or not - can default or withhold repayments of loans to Western banks and blame it on sanctions, whilst continuing to run their businesses with alternative funding from Chinese banks etc.
Russia is not isolated as the talking heads in the West like to claim.
But he can tie the Rouble to gold and insist the EU buys its gas in gold? This would set the cat among the pigeons?
Use the correct GDP measurement of 1 year ago and the U.S. is 106%
reality checks come in all flavors.
pick the one that suits you best.
lol.
EU gdp means shit
russia can turn eu into glass in minutes.what is your point
eu is gone, it might have 18 trillion dollar gdp but it has over 80% public debt. their is deflation,their are high muslim immigration.we have seen peak eu now we will see problems their good luck
"And its not the BRICS that invaded Ukraine and annexed Crimea and occupied part of east Ukraine - its Putin regime."
What date did all this happen? Do tell.
Absent you providing copious irrefutable evidence of this "invasion and occupation", I'll safely assume that it's another round of your propaganda.
The little people are still real scared, but Jack-Putin, another little person, is organizing them and standing up to the Giant. His example gives them courage. His smart asymmetrical attacks give the rest of the little people courage.
The Giant is over-confident and dumb. He'll be brought down with a big crash.
Another analogy is David and Goliath. History is full of such reversals.
An ancient proverb says, "Arrogance precedes a crash."
Americans have been rubbing Russian noses in shit for years and now the tables are turned and Americans can't take the worldwide embarrassment due to a loss of leadership and power in world affairs.
The world will never fall for American largesse via Casino Capitalism ever again and the position of the USA in global affairs is becoming deinstitutionalized at a quick pace. There is no more time to reflect on
American belly button lint or the art of navel gazing when market share is being depleted at rates that will bankrupt the USA in short order. Hard choices will have to be made and the economic system will have to be rebuilt to be equitable for all or people will stop doing business with the USA entirely. Deinstitutionalization of Glass-Steagall was the genesis of economic difficulty in the USA which makes restoration of Glass-Steagall obvious, eventually. China, Russia, India, will never go for one world government and currency
so you can stop thinking along those terms for any reset.
This Lavrov guy makes too much sense. If only we had someone that intelligent here too.
well Mike it's nice to see you are waking up.
many folks here probably read Lavrov's speech (in english) a couple of weeks ago.
many have charted the insanity of the ussa govt. in the far east and ferguson, mo
you've regurgitated old news mate.
"Indeed, describing, lamenting and suggesting remedies for the above is basically what Liberty Blitzkrieg is all about."
your post has done some "describing", some "lamenting", some "ranting" when do we get to the "remedies" part?
ps your last statement about the similarity to WW1 is out of place, unsupported, unnecessary etc, etc.
"I’ve never been to Russia, thus my opinion of the country is basically worthless."
Well, perhaps you ought to go there. You will never understand unless you see it for yourself. It is a really unique place for sure and their livers are made of cast iron. I do not think they are happy about the smashing of ruble yet again but that has been what I have been saying since I joined ZH. Russians have a fucking central bank and that is real issue. How many times do I have to bring this fact up? And now we are supposed to not like one another? People on both so-called "sides" fall for this line of bullshit?
No and Hell no. This is all banker/politcal bullshit. Russians buy into the bullshit too. I have never had any problems with the Russians other than marriage but that is my fault although I still love her and she is still here. We would slog through a fucking swamp for each other even after all of these years. I have my concerns about Russia but there is little I can do about what goes on there.
So what can I do? Well, I really am thinking that something like this grain hauler would make a hell of a weapon for use in my own country. The last thing you want to see is one of these fuckers barreling down on your ass Mad Max style. That is your best investment for the dollar right now. I have enough guns and ammo. I have gold and silver.(never enough) Now I simply need one of those bigger trucks. Yeah, right, here comes Manipuflation with a couple of Springfield Armory products and an AK-47 in a shiity old grain hauler and he is driving 60 MPH. When I hit your fucking cop car or military vehicle you'll know it in no uncertain terms.
There are a lot of ways to arm oneself. Imagine the possibilities. The enemy is not the Russian people even though I do not like thier .gov but that is their problem to solve. I see the real enemy right here at home.
Long live AKAK.
edit: This is what I really want. I think you will understand.
Howdy Mike, as a knee-jerk germany bound observer of the russian american pissing contest i concur. another sober and informed read would be the Putin speech about a month ago. genuinely statesmanlike, sober, articulate, reasoned and as Lavrov, uncompromising. Uncompromising in a good way. Your article starts off about where you would prefer to live but that is hardly relevant. This is about hegemony, and world power and the west via nato is the aggressor. Putin is an autocrat. Obama pushes warin in Syria et al. etc. Nato and its war machine is pushing and Russia is not knuckling under like a pussy to a bully. They will not back down.
I am tired of this caste society where the political froth raises to the top and causes so many little people to suffer.
They say one thing and do another, lie, cheat, always prepared to murder and have the weapons to do so.
What do we need NATO or G7 for? Are they cartels? Like the mobs. Don't kid yourself, most of the representatives out there are no better than the mob. The mob just wants to make money by evading the 'rules' and uses violence as a way to enforce their methods. At least they are honest about it.
The talk of war with anyone did not start on Main Street. It started with the civil servants, secretive law breaking 'intelligence/propaganda' agencies that no tax payer can stop funding for or stop, period.
In the US people are not free, there is no justice, there is no truth. Tell them what they want to hear, how smart, powerful and great as a nation, without which the world would be nothing. Well, the Nazis tried that too.
The only way for this to change is through humility and that lesson is coming. It is unstoppable. At what cost? Apocalypse? probably....
"Putin is by all accounts an authoritarian cult-like leader who wants to ban Bitcoin, journalism can be a deadly affair, and oligarchs continue to run free (as long as you are friends with Putin)"
The writer makes the standard apology. Now the reality.
Before Putin, Russia was looted and terrorised by oligarchs and their murderous gangs. When he came to power, he met with the oligarchs and gave them a choice. They could keep their loot if they paid their taxes and stayed out of politics. Most did. Some fled to safe havens for corrupt wealth and power such as London. One, Khodovsky, stayed and didn't keep out of politics. Putin kept his word. Khodovsky ended up in jail, only to be recently released by Putin on humanitarian grounds. Khodovsky now is trying to re-enter Russia politics.
As for the media, the Moscow Times, for example, is foreign-owned and comes out with the usual boiler-plate bs about Putin. The TV media also has a wide spread of coverage and is of significantly better quality for political content than any current western media. They have this strange concept of actually discussing issues.
Russian people are as pragmatic as you can get, probably from learning to live the hard way, and much harder to blow smoke up their arse aka US tv watching sheeple.
US forgets Russian history and many millions dead from all sorts of wars and regiems.
US thinks Russians are going to be rebel if they cant line up to buy ipads, they didn't when supermarket shelves were empty under USSR....
Average Russian much more aware of the geopolitical games of the world than anybody. They pretty much understand what Ukraine and USA games are all about, and why they cant accept the US having their way.
As for nuking Russia? If that were ever attempted the guaranteed result would be the total obliteration of the USA and major European countries along with Russia.....and I guess China wins in that scenario. Russia like the USA has its nuclear capability on its own soil and spread around the globe. One nuclear Russian submarine has enough fire power in itself to destroy the USA.
So nuclear war of any kind is out of the question for all parties....unless there are lunatics willing to take they whole world down with them
Sadly time and again they *are* lunatics and they *do* take the whole country down with them. They either have infinite power or they poison pill everything under their control of their own jest.
Hitler, Mao Te Sung, Pol Pot, the list just goes on. Obama trying really hard look at what the con is doing.
I plussed you for that because much of what you said was correct. You missed my point on the difference between Russian people and westerners though. Russians carry a strong sense of national pride and so do Americans so the bankers. gov tries to play. Well I am married a Russian and know how it goes and I have been to Russia on more than one occasion. My son and daughter speak Russian because their mother IS a Russian citizen. I think Putin owes me $20,000 for that but what can you do? I'm not going to contest that although my wife should. She won't because she said that is all bullshit anyway. She would know.
The Russians play the central bank game and their ruble is getting crushed. I had an argument with the Mrs last week as though I was Janet Yellen. Really, it is all my fault? That what I been saying years about Russians, the majority of them do not get it either. They really intelligent and some they get it better most Americans do but they revert to nationalism. I never did a thing to any Russian and they never did anything to me so what is the problem? I am always the asshole I guess. I didn't do anything to anyone but now I am the asshole again.
Maybe I am an asshole but perhaps you are an asshole too? Did anyone think of that? There is a difference about the proper way to be an asshole. You should be an asshole but you simply can not be a dumb asshole.(I am not saying you are Kina)
People around the world have to pull the head out of their asses and just do not want to so the paper game goes on. It is the same in Russia as it is the U.S. here and I have not found a Russian that disagrees with me because I am not wrong. But they want to play the ponzi game and so they play the game so you know the cards are stacked against you. Well, if you are going to play the game then don't get mad if you get fucked. Didn't you now the ssytem is rigged? Really? No it is my fault because I always fix the CBOE and CME and DAOW and NASDAQ. Yeah right, that is what I do all day. Who can I fuck over today?
We have been screaming that central banks have been fucking us for a century. Does anyone listen? But there will be no nuking of Russia but those folks need to understand what real problem actually is just as we do. But that is their deal, don't let that plank in your eye obscure your vision of what is right in front of you.
Manipuflation said:
Words of wisdom. Americans and Russians (and most people in general) have far more more in common with each other than many realize. Those who lust for power, no matter the nation, will always try to obscure any common bond with humanity, as this simplifies their task of scapegoating.
It is as intended. To those who run the central bank game, national borders are meaningless except as another tool to divide their victims and set them against each other. For profit.
The entire central banking scam is designed to be incomprehensible. One must expend both time and effort to have even a basic understanding. When things go wrong, it is better to have ready made scapegoats to blame in order to quell any curiosity about the nature of banking and power. National, ethnic, racial, and religious differences are cultivated and amplified for this reason. Even better if it leads to war, because it gives the opportunity to destroy records, reset the accounting books, and make huge profits by lending to all warring parties.
No problems except the artificial ones which are made and imposed on us by the psychopaths that want to rule the world.
It is unfortunate but true that some people with primitive man thinking leave you no choice but to be an asshole when dealing with them.
This explains much about 'smart' phones and social media. The internet became a problem by allowing too many people to begin to understand a little too much about how the system works. The internet then became the solution with Facebook a center of distraction and 'smart' phones facilitating distractions during every waking moment. No time to think when one must attend to the different streams of brain pollution. More like an entire lumber yard in the eye than a plank.
+1. Brilliant.
Nuclear war nobody wins except the cockroaches. Once the arms start flying there will be no restraint, and humanity will wipe itself off the face of the earth, underground cities notwithstanding.
go to the hell, Mike.
You seem to be a schizofrenic moron...
journalism can be a deadly affair .....recall Hastings, Philip Marshall, as an example, you moron, then start to talk about other countries, e.g. Russia.
The reason there are no countries without governments is because all countries are run by murderers.
In case things go dark and the facists take over before daybreak...well, it was nice knowing ZH
Drudgereport.com is DOWN for everyone.It is not just you. The server is not responding...
Deeper in debt and less and less foreign political influence, The story of America.
My eastern European father who was an orphan during the war who's own father was killed by the Nazis used to say America needs a real war. I'm finally understanding what he means. Maybe Russia will give us one maybe not. Russia has been preparing for major conflict with the west for a while now. Google the massive underground complex called Yamantau in the Ural mountains. The thing supposedly dwarfs anything the US has. Americans need a wake up call. Their own government spying on them, massive influx of illegals, destruction of their economy by endless printing of money aren't seeming to do the trick. So maybe a real and present threat of nuclear war just might make us stand up and take notice of the pile of shit forming because our country is falling apart on so many levels. But I doubt it. My neighbor will still be sitting on his ass every night at 6pm watching the NFL.
America is like a juiced up bodybuilder.........on the street in a back alley they are one of the most intimidating m'fers around..but the minute they get into a fight you realize just how weak and pathetic they are when they try to throw a punch or move in any type of meaningful coordinated way. All that muscle means sh@t. Our military is in the same predicament. All shiny and new and highly advanced yet our country is rotting on the inside.
All brought to you by the communist infestation in government.
Russia was once conquered from within and the same is happening in the US through multi-cultural and government union 'law' shoved down our throats.
The real culture of America, our 'melting pot' society, is being destroyed by the leftists, communists and fascists to ensure there is no cohesion between Americans - divide and conquer.
Communism is the cancer in Americas government today, right now it needs a scalpel but soon it will require a meat clever.
Once you've got rid of that "dirty" commie, --God knows how he got there; maybe you do (if so, please tell us, I'm dying to know)--what type of political denier do you replace it (communism) with : GWB clone?; Martian ET; Hitler's look alike; Caesar's epilepsy ; Chingachgook's spirit; or just Miley Cyrus's butt?
the real culture of America is what; apart from Coca Cola, Levi Strauss and the Colt, now Google glass or Apple Iphone made in china ?
Jazz is black and so is NBA slam dunk.
If the Commies have got hold of US state they are doing a fine job of looking like Caesar's look alikes (or Don Corleone's sons ) !
But then maybe Caesar was a Commie and Spartacus was the opposite.
History stands on its head. And i'll buy my next iphone from Ali Baba, man from the new land of the free (just look at his market value !)
Democracy must be that other cancer in the US.
"...that other cancer in the US" is fascism also brought to you by the leftists and communists in government.
PS - ET is ruining Russia - or is that Gollum?
My eastern European father who was an orphan during the war who's own father was killed by the Nazis used to say America needs a real war. I'm finally understanding what he means. Maybe Russia will give us one maybe not. Russia has been preparing for major conflict with the west for a while now. Google the massive underground complex called Yamantau in the Ural mountains. The thing supposedly dwarfs anything the US has. Americans need a wake up call. Their own government spying on them, massive influx of illegals, destruction of their economy by endless printing of money aren't seeming to do the trick. So maybe a real and present threat of nuclear war just might make us stand up and take notice of the pile of shit forming because our country is falling apart on so many levels. But I doubt it. My neighbor will still be sitting on his ass every night at 6pm watching the NFL.
America is like a juiced up bodybuilder.........on the street in a back alley they are one of the most intimidating m'fers around..but the minute they get into a fight you realize just how weak and pathetic they are when they try to throw a punch or move in any type of meaningful coordinated way. All that muscle means sh@t. Our military is in the same predicament. All shiny and new and highly advanced yet our country is rotting on the inside.
In stark contrast to Putin or Lavrov, I seldom hear rational arguments, or counter-arguments from our American "statesmen" (though I often see and hear blind subserviance to the "pro-exceptionalism" party line).
Indeed it is a blessing to know the truth when one hears it.
While the article was great. The comments in their totality were greater.
Thanks everyone. I am learning everyday both in a knowledge sense but also in a human sense every day when I read some of the most interesting, funny, knowledgeable and insightful comments.
I think prayer and acts of goodwill starting at the individual level is all that is left to us little people.
"I think prayer and acts of (sacrifice and) goodwill starting at the individual level..."
As murderously angry as I sometimes feel as I watch what our political, cultural, and business "leaders" are doing with our country and the world at large, I am almost always able to stand back and remind myself that ideas like yours are an essential, foundational way by which the only things that really matter might be preserved for ourselves and passed on to future generations.
I like how you cant support or like Putin because Russia is not a utopia and apparently this is all Putins fault. How dare he not have got rid of all corruption? How dare he not have changed his nations entire culture?
"Putin is not a soft effeminate wuss, so he is an autocrat, a dictator possibly".
Bottom line- Putin is the only one who is standing up for Russia and against American Empire.
He is a fucking godsend.
Try to defend Russias sovereignty by being fully democratic while a full cold war going on. You would have a color revolution up your ass so quick it would make your head spin. Lavrov said Russia had never been conquered, then what was the Bolshevik revolution but conquest from within. The same tribe has used adjusted methods to do the same thing to America. Russia, having been conquered from within once, and again more breifly in the 1990's is trying to preserve her self determination. America has clearly and visibly lost hers.
"He is a fucking godsend."
That is exactly what you fucking morons say about the likes of 0bama, pelosi and reid - communists all.
"The world today is not white or black, but multi-coloured and heterogeneous. Leadership in this world can be assured not by persuading oneself of one’ exclusiveness and God-given duty to be responsible for everyone[A Satanic viewpoint], but only by the ability and craft in forming a consensus[A Christian viewpoint]. If the US partners committed their power to this goal, this would be priceless, and Russia would be actively helping them."
I wonder where a nation originally founded on Christian principles got its Satanic outlook from. When did Russia re adopt its orthodox Christian principles, and what caused it to lose them in the 20th century?
The answer to both of your questions is ISIS. I mean, the country that created ISIS that is. New Bolsheviks same as the old Bolsheviks. All in the Protocols.
".. Nevertheless, based on what I have read and observed, I’d still much rather live in the U.S.."
Well, if you want to live in the monkey's paradise, that's your choise. Sounds like "I didn't read Faulkner, but I'm contrary!". Just another ignorant anglosax.
Too many people it is clear that a struggle is occurring to unseat America as the worlds most dominate nation. For many proud Americans who see the United States as having a right to be in control it is both threatening and frustrating to see that control slip away.
It is threatening to think the country might quickly fall to the position of a second rate power mired in debt with many of the options we have come to see as our right suddenly ripped away. It is frustrating that in many ways America appears to have become its own worse enemy guilty of political inaction and squandering its power through a series of bad choices and missteps. More in the article below about the continuing massive shift in power to Asia and how America must immediately face its problems to set its house in order.
http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2014/06/americas-struggle-to-stay-on-top.html
"Too many people it is clear...many proud Americans _ see the United States as having a right to be in control it is both threatening and frustrating to see that control slip away."
This idiot never was useful. Take him out back, shoot him, and feed him to the pigs.
Seriously.
Sometimes, one should take one's own advice.
"One disconcerting thing I have noticed amongst some “liberty-minded” people I follow, is a knee-jerk tendency to pick a side in this affair. When it comes to powerful men running centralized nation-states with nuclear weapons, there are no church boys involved."
This idiot is no longer useful. Take him out back, shoot him, and feed him to the pigs.
Seriously, thanks for writing this. I was beginning to think that regarding consideration of the geopolitical sinkhole into which the world descends, balance and sanity were officially and almost completely verboten at ZH.
Lavrov says: "expanding the geopolitical space under Western control, out of a mercantile fear to lose the spoils of what they across the Atlantic had persuaded themselves was the victory in the Cold War"
Yes, Lavrov does get it.
Did Communism Fake Its Own Death in 1991? By Jason McNew January 16, 2010 http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/01/did_communism_fake_its_own_dea.html
1978 Golitsyn Memo: Long-Range Objectives of the Soviet Leaders from "The Perestroika Deception" Memorandum to the CIA: 15 January 1978 - THE LONG-RANGE POLITICAL OBJECTIVES AND INTENTIONS OF THE SOVIET LEADERS: AN ASSESSMENT OF AN OFFICIAL REPORT BY A SOVIET EMIGRE IN THE LIGHT OF THE COMMUNIST BLOC'S LONG-RANGE STRATEGY AND ITS DISINFORMATION OFFENSIVE
Excerpted from "The Perestroika Deception." http://www.scribd.com/doc/213346777/1978-Golitsyn-Memo-Long-Range-Objectives-of-the-Soviet-Leaders-from-The-Perestroika-Deception
It is in the interest of 99% of the world's people to live in a MULTI POLAR WORLD.
A world run by a single empire gives world citizens no fleeing options and enables brutality and genocide.
I don't recall any shortage of "brutality and genocide" in multi-polar geopolitical environments.
very true. But in tipping times when an Empire declines it is a necessary transition to a new world.
So its the swing of the pendulum; both in terms of power as in terms of who finds "the new philosopher's lodestone"; aka the keys to a new paradigm.
The issues now on the table are beyond just "business as usual" under a new Emperor or Empire.
We have to drastically change our way of living in a peak RM resource environment.
It means low profiling urgently our energy (currently fossil based) profile until the new paradigm emerges.
I want to bear Putin's lovechild.
But you are a man. And Shovelheads are obsolete. Even though they run fine and there will still be some running a hundred years from now.
"I’ve never been to Russia, thus my opinion of the country is basically worthless."
That statement was reasonable.
Why, then, do you proceed to give your opinion?
"I've never been to Russia, thus my opinion of the country is basically worthless. Nevertheless, based on what I have read and observed, I’d still much rather live in the U.S. than Russia despite all of our society’s failings and decay in recent decades. While this view could certainly change as time and events unfold, that is how I strongly feel at the moment."...
Mike I've usually enjoyed reading your eds in the past but this comment pretty much sums up your personal opinions on a Country you know nothing about! Getting more to the point your lack of understanding of the broader geopolitical issues out of choice is so typical of Americans in general that don't care to know the culture and history of this Country which you defend in your write-up largely because you have no other choice by your own admission of your Democratic Republics action(s) on the World stage...
So let me ask you?...
If you were Putin what would you do after being out spent by your Western adversary for more than 50 years that said it won a war that it could have never won had it engaged Russia as it is attempting to do now with ABM encirclement spread throughout Europe on it's borders, along with military bases violating both the letter and law of every post-Soviet treaty the U.S. signed 24 years ago? Where is Russia's encirclement of the U.S.?... More importantly what Countries in the last 30 years has it invaded and occupied military like that of the United States?
You left out the U.S. subterfuge, infiltration and meddling during that post cold war thaw using terrorist proxies throughout Eastern Europe and inside Russia with the Chechens that have killed hundreds if not thousands since Russia peacefully stood down during the "Iron Curtain's" fall not to mention the NGOs tacit endorsement of Neo-Nazis' in what is left of Western Ukraine thanks to your government's hubris and folly?
I'm not bashing you directly just like you are not bashing Russia given your post of Lavrov's speech which might as well be an admission of guilt for your Country's overwhelming failings in it's societal decay which are ripe for some positive change. That is of course if we want to continue to live!
Well, I have spent a lot of time in Russia, and know a lot about Russian culture and language.
So let me try to answer your questions directly:
Putin was not outspent for 50 years. Putin was a mid-level bureaucrat 25 years ago. Russia was not outspent either... unless your position on Russia is simultaneously that Russia IS the soviet union and not the soviet union. I was never much one for cognitive dissonance. I think Russia is not the soviet union. I think that the Duma is usually not the soviet union. But I think the state security apparatus is frequently confused about whether or not it is the soviet union. And I think the population is intermittently confused whether or not it is the soviet union. That is how you get Russians who claim former soviet countries are simultaneously countries and 'Nash' (ours). If it is an independent nation, it cannot also be theirs.
ABM encirclement is a boogeyman used to make mid-level state apparatus bureaucrats into highlevel bureaucrats. The ABMs are not capable of shooting down advaced Russian reentry vehicles, and were never intended to be. They were intended to shoot down primitive mid-to-long range ballistic missiles, such as those emerging nations have, that might have a nuke in place of a conventional payload. The Multiple Reentry Vehicle (MRV) system that both the US and the Soviet Union have had since the 1960s by-passes the capability. Everyone already knows it. Statements to the contrary are to make sheep of people.
Russia made its own problems in Chechnya. US is not behind Chechnya, and has been fighting Chechyens in Afghanistan since 2002... which is the exact SAME country that both have invaded in the last 30 years. The US has also gone to Iraq, and done drone assassinations in Pakistan and the horn of africa, and bombing in Yugoslavia. Meanwhile Russia has invaded Georgia, Ukraine, Chechnya, and done assassinations in Syria, Libya, Egypt, Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, and a few others. Mr. Pot, please meet Mr. Kettle. Please note you are both black.
NGO's are Non-Governmental Organizations. Russia has them too. People don't always believe what they are told to believe, support what they are told to support, or behave as they are told to behave. Only human extinction will solve this. The US people and government are responsible for NGOs to the same exact and precise degree that the Russian people and government are responsible for the so-called 'Russian Mafia'. When pointing fingers keep that in mind.
There's plenty of social decay to go around in the world. Yes, the US leaders are drunk and stupid. But no, they are absolutely positively not alone in that.
Whether you propose baseless assertions of innocence or baseless assertions of guilt it doesn't matter who you attribute them to. What is important is that they are baseless.
And here is a litmus test you can use: A lie may have many intents, but only one method, to cause someone to not act as they would if they knew the truth.
Someone who lies to you is not your friend no matter how much you want to like them, no matter how much you might wish they were not lies.
Obama's many lies have been well documented.
But are all those young Russian conscripts really being killed in training???
A lie is never a friend.
The Asian pivot of Russia :
The abandonment of the South Stream and the subsequent tie-up with Turkey shows two things :
1° Russia's pivot to Asia, energy wise and geo-political, continues. Turkey now acquires greater prominence as both USA and Russia try to woo its aid, to appease or to bleed his Assadian neighbour. Erdogan is strutting like a new Ottoman and he doesn't have the shoulders for the job (but that's another story which adds instability to the region; as his traditional enemy Iran also gains positional pre-eminence).
2° EU's tie-in into Pax Americana plays continues in the present EU configuration, where NATO calls the shots on the military front and Ukraine provides the battleground in new cold/warm war.
But, Putin's gambit of using the Pax Americana enfeeblement in MENA zone to strengthen his pivotal role in Europe is failing. Putin has overplayed his hand. Saud has reacted by overplaying theirs.
Whence the conundrum in ME getting more acute; where all three key players : USA, Russia and Saud have created a tense confrontation around Syrac and the energy lines than transit through it from Caspian and Russian regions to hungry EU zone.
Today, we see a temporary glut in oil. But tomorrow...
So as the short term bites the tail of the longer term there is a huge ramp up of uncertainty around the OIL patch, nexus of geo-political and energy plays of global consequence.
We have the NEW GORDIAN KNOT, but we don't have a NEW ALEXANDER to cut it asunder!
I suspect this is all for sheeple cunsumption.
If Putin really was fighting to keep his country out of the hands of the Rothschild banking syndicate, why is he warming up to the IMF and BIS which they surely control? Is Putin making a deal with the devil or was this the plan from the beginning?
I'm guessing that it was the plan from the beginning. The Syndicate has tapped out the USA, there's very little left here for them to steal, so they've decided to crush us and move their scam to Eur-asia where the pickings are still available.
Thoughts?
It is a sad commentary on the American political culture that it is not able to develop leaders of the intellectual quality of Lavrov, but rather a handful ot mediocre political hacks with the attitudes of clubhouse politicians at the local level. Krieger indulges in a little hyperbole when he says that his opinion of Russia is worthless, as he proceeds to make an excellent analysis of Lavrov's speech and the surrounding circumstances.
Like Krieger, I have never visited Russia, but have met many and studied their history and literature. The more I learn, the greater becomes my admiration for their achievements, steadfast in the face of great suffering imposed by some of their own as well as outside powers.
Rather than have a rational foreign policy the US is attempting to spin the image of Putin as a new Hitler with claims of false invasions as over the top as claims the moon is made of cheese. But Americans are the most propagandized people on Earth and over 80% of the country believes Putin is the aggressor. The US wants to prevent any chance of Russia becoming healthy and independent - never mind an empire. The latest results of this harebrained strategy? Harm our European neighbors and push Turkey further into the direction of the rising Islamic State sphere. Idiocy - and a great many of the Republicans elected this year are going to make maters worse because there are too many clueless neocons among them.
I highly recommend the following articles. They're short and insightful.
-- Eric
# # # #
Russia, Turkey, China And Natural Gas Pipelines: Who Won? Who Lost? You Tell Me!
http://thenewsdoctors.com/?p=251085
If Europe Does Not Want To Carry Out South Stream…
http://thenewsdoctors.com/?p=251377
Lavrov said 22/11/14
"Russian President Vladimir Putin said at the Valdai Club meeting in Sochi that we need a new version of interdependence. This was a very topical statement. The leading powers must return to the negotiating table and agree on a new framework that takes into account the basic legitimate interests of all the key parties (I can’t tell you what it should be called, but it should be based on the UN Charter), to agree on reasonable self-imposed restrictions and collective risk management in a system of international relations underpinned by democratic values."
i can tell you, LAVROV is just being coy. UNFrameworkCCC Paris Protocol. Topical indeed. LULZ