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The Ferguson Conundrum Solved By Community Security
Submitted by Brandon Smith via Alt-Market.com,
Many times in the past I have discussed the concept of what I call the “non-participation principle,” but often people misinterpret what “non-participation” really entails. Such a strategy does not mean an individual activist or group simply refuses to support the system by not using Federal Reserve notes, or not paying taxes, or not buying Monsanto-generated frankenfoods. That kind of thing is all well and good, but ultimately, non-participation means TAKING away power from the corrupt political and financial elite. Sometimes, this is done through force of arms — but not always in the way some might believe.
One-dimensional tactics are often more dangerous to the activist group fighting for freedom than they are for the power oligarchy, and I see them promoted all the time. How often have you heard some idiot (or paid provocateur) rambling about a march on Washington, D.C., to “arrest the criminals” (the criminals in D.C. are middlemen as replaceable as lawnmower parts, not that a blind march into the mouth of the beast would accomplish anything anyway). What about the insane and historically ill conceived option of military coup? What about random violence against random targets, forsaking the very principles by which our movement sustains itself? Even if a movement “wins” in such a way, it still loses after becoming the monster it sought to destroy.
How about the opposite end of the spectrum? People call on the liberty movement to buy useless, ethereal bitcoins, or chant slogans on street corners in docility while being doused with pepper spray. Activists regurgitate the “reach, teach, and inspire” mantra without acknowledging that concrete action and legitimate risk are often the MOST inspiring paths that can be undertaken. What about those people who actually argue that we need to “reason” with the psychopaths running our infrastructure and show them the error of their ways (which is much like trying to debate with a shark on why you are not as tasty as you appear)?
All of these tactics culminate in a zero-point game of make-believe revolution. They not only accomplish nothing, they actually distract the movement from pursuing more tangible and effective methods.
The non-participation principle could be summed up as follows:
Provide for yourself and others the necessities that the corrupt system cannot or will not. Remove your consent for the system to provide necessities for you when it suits them. Eventually, the elites of the system will have only one of two options: admit that you no longer need them and leave you in peace or try to physically stop you from taking care of yourself. If the system tries to stop you, it must expose itself as inherently despotic in the process and lose public support. In either case, you win.
It is vital that movement activists understand that our nation and perhaps the world have become targets of fourth-generation warfare leading to artificial division, conflict and very real self-destruction. If we are to respond, it must be with fourth-generation revolution. The methodology of the non-participation principle has been applied with great success in certain parts of the world, but most recently in Ferguson, Missouri, by the constitutional organization Oath Keepers and its Community Preparedness Team (CPT) program.
With very little initial press going in, Oath Keepers has broken through the mainstream barrier once again by using its CPT strategy in Ferguson, sending trained veterans and former police officers who have sworn to uphold constitutional liberties to defend properties under threat of arson by looters, rioters and suspected federal provocateurs. All members were volunteers and were present at the behest of business owners.
While supporting the right of Americans to peacefully protest, it has become clear that elements outside of Ferguson are attempting to exploit the legitimate frustrations of the community there and wield the citizens as a weapon to further their own agendas. Ferguson has been used to promote false racial division and conflict, the deployment of militarized police to attack protesters while allowing looters to move unchecked, and the socialist concept that property is evil and that business owners (even small-business owners) are all contributors to state violence and are, thereby, culpable targets for reprisal.
A friend of mine recently fell into a debate with a man claiming that the Oath Keeper response was unacceptable because they are “all racist.” Of course, when one realizes that Oath Keepers was defending businesses owned by black and Chinese, as well as white, locals, the racism argument disintegrates. Ultimately, the critic relented, but ended his diatribe with these words: “Some things just need to burn.”
This appears to be a common theme among agitators in Ferguson, who desperately want “bloodshed” so that a chain of reactionary violence will erupt, as outlined in this Breitbart article.
And there you have it. Members of the socialist cult don’t hate Oath Keepers because they think the organization is a bastion of racism; they hate Oath Keepers because the highly trained group won’t let innocent people and their businesses burn to the ground. They hate Oath Keepers because they want chaos as cover to further their ideology, and Oath Keepers provided security where the police and federal government would not.
This, of course, not only angered socialist/communist provocateurs on the ground in Ferguson, but also elements of the government.
While many local police and citizens seem to be thankful for the Oath Keeper presence, government response teams had other ideas. Oath Keepers on site reported suspicious activity at a nearby residence in which a team of three men appeared to be setting up a sniper position after exiting a silver suburban. At the same time, state police units had set up on a nearby roof and were aiming sniper rifles in their direction. Luckily, the team leader, Sam Andrews, had worked with the local police department before and maintained a friendly relationship with them. His call to police had an immediate response, and whatever the teams of men were planning had been thwarted by the appearance of official witnesses.
Immediately following what I suspect to be a bungled false flag attempt, Andrews was approached by a county officer who told him that business owners had complained and wanted the defense group to leave. This was found to be a lie, and the officer admitted that his chief was being pressured by the feds to get Oath Keepers out of the area.
After failing on multiple occasions to run off Oath Keepers, the St. Louis County police chief is now attempting to use a statute requiring security personnel to be licensed by the state. The statute, however, clearly applies only to PAID security personnel, not volunteers. So Oath Keepers is back again and refusing to comply with the order to disperse.
Other groups providing security, including a group of black volunteers defending a white-owned gas station out of respect for their former employer, have not been harassed by police.
Why are the state and federal governments so intent on getting rid of Oath Keeper volunteers whose only “crime” is to defend innocent people from harm? It’s probably because Oath Keepers is taking the concept of non-participation nationwide.
Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes states:
They want to create a false paradigm… They are presenting a false choice between lawlessness, looting, arson, assault, murder on the one side, unrestrained or a hyper-militarized police state on the other… They are failing to do the intelligent thing and protect businesses without trampling on rights.
All four businesses protected by Oath Keepers remain untouched by fire, including Natalie’s Cakes and More, a beauty supply store, a dentist’s office and a Chinese restaurant, even though all of them had been directly threatened at the beginning of the riots. Natalie’s Cakes and More had not only received threats of arson, but had also been damaged by looters before the arrival of Oath Keepers. Now, her business stands intact.
My regular readers are well aware that I have been involved in the formation and training of my local Montana CPT. I believe it is one of the best models of the non-participation principle in action today, combining elements of security and defense, emergency medical training, engineering for vital resources (farming, water, construction, etc.), as well as communication — everything that a community needs to protect itself or rebuild in the wake of disaster. The Ferguson event proves beyond a doubt that the CPT concept is effective and necessary.
The governor of Missouri, the federal government and some elements of the local police were either unable to come to the aid of citizens of Ferguson or they were unwilling. It is my belief that many buildings in Ferguson were simply allowed to burn in order to help perpetuate tensions and provide another rationale in the minds of Americans for militarization of law enforcement. If the system cannot or will not protect you, then you and your community will have to provide security for yourselves.
By extension, if the citizenry suffers extreme levels of conflict with city, state or federal-run law enforcement organizations, then they should be providing for the safety of their own community. If the police and the people cannot get along, then REMOVE the police from the picture entirely and create your own neighborhood watches and mutual aid groups. No city-paid police officer is going to care more about the safety of a neighborhood than the residents who live there and the businesses that survive there. And no violent criminal is going to be able to function for long in a neighborhood that is trained and armed to defend itself.
The best option, the only option when faced with a conundrum like Ferguson, is for residents to kick government out of the picture completely. Whatever problems might be encountered during such a transition would be a happy trade over the constant crisis wrought by political “mismanagement” or manipulation. In the end, corrupt government will never go away unless we stop handing our responsibilities over to them — and this includes security. We must stop trying to change the system by following the rules that perpetually benefit the system. If we are ever going to get rid of elitist control, we have to step outside the false paradigm and play our own game by our own rules.
You can learn more about Oath Keepers here.
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I tried to join the Army in 2004. Ultimately didn't. Sometimes I regret that. I could have used the training. I can still go to the gym and take shooting classes, but it's not the same thing.
my buddy's step-mother makes $79 every hour on the computer . She has been fired from work for seven months but last month her income was $21705 just working on the computer for a few hours. why not check here... www.yelptrade.com
That's nothing special.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZVnve5wG0A
Oathkeepers are fortunately also on active duty, though this Major's career will probably be stunted when Obombya's big gubmint anti-Consitution thugs find out about his good deed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=P0pzwa2CzEU
5:00 & on.
Oathkeepers = DHS/FBI PSYOP
Stewart Rhodes (Oathkeepers founder) = Government contractor
this article is right on : civil. disobedience. It must happen now , it really shouldn't wait.
“I, (name of Member), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.” -
Obama and every current and Representative is bound by that oath.
https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2014/12/what-does-it-mean-...
Whatever problems might be encountered during such a transition would be a happy trade over the constant crisis wrought by political “mismanagement” or manipulation. In the end, corrupt government will never go away unless we stop handing our responsibilities over to them — and this includes security.
Why are y'all so insistent on redoing all the missteps / cliches of every third world country on earth? A few corrupt institutions isn't enough, gotta scrape the bottom of the barrel I guess.
The standing track record is that every horrendous dictatorship was started by wonderful common folkz leading the community to a blissful + corruption free future. But yeah, I get it - it's different this time with y'all righteous white knights out to save evry1.
In which dictatorship did the common people remove government from the picture completely and start providing their own security? Please, do tell...
In which dictatorship did the common people remove government from the picture completely and start providing their own security? Please, do tell...
Completely? Not what author is suggesting, author is suggesting a 'community' solution approach to policing, which is itself a type of a government organization. Ohhh not deh evvvvvil governmants nope, deh good people power government dat is gon help u and yer neighbours!!
Whether the russians, chinese, germans, greeks etc. it all started small with helpful incorruptibles looking to bring power back to the people.
The question which needs to be asked about these super helpful selfless individuals, what proof is there that they will be any less corrupt than the folks currently running the show?
It took all of two weeks for those guys at the bundy ranch to devolve into a band of raving lunatics ready to kill each other. Next to them the regular police look pretty damn good!
The writing is on the wall.
So you are implying that ANY form of government will devolve into tyranny? Therefore you are suggesting no government at all? This appears to be a change from your normal argument. One I support, but a change.
Sean7k So you are implying that ANY form of government will devolve into tyranny? Therefore you are suggesting no government at all? This appears to be a change from your normal argument. One I support, but a change.
---
I think James Cole is pointing out something I have said many times now. Over the history of mankind, NO ONE has found THE solution. Governments are born of men and men are not perfect, thus neither is government. Government, however well intentioned, grows and becomes bloated and corrupt. One can list negatives of either side of complete freedom and no government to an over-bearing government and loss of individual freedoms. And even in at a median point, there will always be someone not happy.
We see a corrupt over bearing government now. But can you also visualize no government where the local bully with the most ammo and guns becomes your master? How about a roving band? "The Road" is a good movie to illustrate no government.
I use history as a guideline, so at some point, a parasitic government kills its host (the taxpayer) and the house of cards fall.
A new government or control of such government arises. Unfortunately, history also suggests it eventually repeats the same bloated corruption.
i attended a town select board meeting last week (i was the only member of the public). they meet twice a month to conduct business related to town issues: roads, schools, initiatives. they spend tax dollars. it was my first and i was not surprised at what i saw: a group of cold, crusty, dispassionate, malcontents who live on third base and think they hit a triple. government bureaucrats are not suited to carry out any constitutional mandate. as the late great justice william douglas once said: "the constitution is not neutral. it was designed to keep the government off of the backs of the people." it is up to us to get the monkeys off of our backs.
"....who live on third base and think they hit a triple. "
Perfect. Thanks. I will use this in the future...
Author Brandon Smith exhorts us to "focus all our energy not on fighting the old but on building the new. (Socrates)"
He suggests we find/rediscover a home grown solution rather than try to change the system from within. This is certainly a laudable endeavor, and I'm thrilled the Oath Keepers are providing the "new way".
Yet Mr. Smith severely missteps.
Bitcoin is "non-pariticpation" in money. Mr. Smith dismisses this fact and focuses on the non participation principle in security.
Mr. Brandon Smith seems to be hung up on something bitcoin related, perhaps he disagrees with its speculative potential. That is his prerogative, however Bitcoin performs marvelously as a "non-participation money" whether Mr. Smith is informed or not.
Mr. Smith says this "People call on the liberty movement to buy useless, ethereal bitcoins"
Mr. Smith your understanding on the topic of Bitcoin is lacking. I'm truly surprised to read such an eloquent argument for as Socrates and you say "find a new way that is outside and separate from the old way", yet such a slight dismissal for the most powerful tool in the non participators arsenal, sound digital money.
You aptly apply the non participation principle to security but then fail to do the same in the realm of money.
I suggest you acquire more knowledge on the topic of the monetary new-way. http://evoorhees.blogspot.com/2012/04/bitcoin-libertarian-introduction.html https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZloHVKk7DHk
Smith advocates barter, not bitcoin, because bitcoin is not non-participation. Does bitcoin rely on the web in order to progress? Yes. Does the NSA control the web? For the most part, yes. The government can shut down the web any time they please, and that's been done in multiple countries in the past during civil unrest. Therefor, bitcoin requires participation in a controlled structure. Bitcoin is fake non-participation and a distraction from real grassroots solutions.
race to the bottom...sadly, it is not mine. but a good one nonetheless
Sessinpo,
If you use history as a guideline, then you understand that the use of government and law as social contracts are a complete failure. Therefore, rather than repeating the same failed experiment (definition of insanity), we should be encouraged to consider another construct- one where the State does not exist.
I have little concern for a bully or roving band. We already have them- we call them "police". The difference is the bully or roving band would have no "law" or State to protect them. It is a different world for bullies and thugs when they have no protection and the people understand the need to protect themselves. Second, you fail to consider he role of insurance in such a construct- one where f you are robbed or injured, you are ACTUALLY compensated for your loss.
Further, voluntary community style security could provide extra protection to those desiring it.
The Road, as a movie, is a propaganda piece to create fear and doubt, but if you are so easily fooled, perhaps slavery would be better for you.
During the 1800s on the frontier, there were no police or government presence at all, yet it never devolved into a "The Road" type situation. Sure, it could be dangerous and rough, but that is the real price of freedom.
The system is fine. we simply need to return to it. The best way to do that is shrink government. All agencies need to reduce their budget by five percent each year for the next ten years.
sessinpo and James_Cole thanks for the good posts.
Cloud9.5
In a perfect world, your post would make perfect sense; so, things won’t be fine, I am afraid.
The main social problem in America is not race, but a ‘Class Issue” that generates lots of inequalities and resentments.
And you don’t even need to read the article above, just look at the 2 pictures. And these are the type of people that complain that the US is too militarized.
This is what I call a state of total self-delusion and perpetual childhood.
And that’s the danger, coming from these “left behind crowd”.
class analysis - right out of the marxist playbook.
try rule of law, or lack thereof analysis
Firstly I agree..
The problem remains the ---'s have replaced wage earning with government subsidies. Thinks about it, anything "tax credit" is a SUBSIDY. The real and actual problem comes when we cut government spending on sudsidies, ALL that money will go to pay INTEREST on FED debt. We will be forced to reduce the standard of living for a majority of citizens (real and fake... yep thanks Reagan) and I'm afraid this opens the door for the end.
-That's all Folks-
Effective self security of a community is a function of the type of citizens that make up the community. Your point of questioning self security is valid. I know I wouldn't want to be anywhere near Ferguson if I was depending on the local citizens for a self secure system of govt.
Localized militia based security is much harder to corrupt than a state controlled police force. Show us an example, for instance, of a militia in America's early history that abused the locals? There is no such thing, because the locals are the militia! Are they going to abuse themselves? The less centralized the structure is, the less susceptible it is to tyranny. This has been proven over and over again through history. Tyrants always seek to centralize and consolidate first. So, we must do the opposite.
As far as Bundy Ranch goes, no one killed anyone, so I'm not sure what you are talking about. You're making hypothetical accusations of corruption and chaos that have not happened. How can one argue with a hypothetical except to say it is meaningless?
People will always be corruptible, and if you expect Smith or anyone else to come up with a solution to that problem, then I think you might want to step off your soap box and consider how exactly you would do it, because no one else has ever come up with a fix in the history of humanity. The fact of the matter is, though, that centralized governance does not work. This is proven. Decentralized governance and security works much better. All we can do is go with what works best until somebody offers a more effective solution, which I don't see you doing.
There were Militias in all the Colonies, and later there were Militias in most of the Territories as the USA expanded westward. In the Revolutionary War, Lexington and Concord was Militias. Militias were instrumental in the Battle of Saratoga, where the Colonials beat Burgoyne, and that victory brought French support to the Colonies. In the south, Militias were instrumental throughout, and their guerilla actions helped slow Cornwallis down enough that he eventually rested his army in Yorktown, where he was bottled in and defeated. Without Militias, there would be no USA, and therefore no Constitution and no Bill of Rights. The movie "The Patriot" was pretty spot on, from what I've read.
JC, what part of 'Big government doesn't make anything better' do you fail to understand? Name one beneficial thing that it made better (for everyone).
Oh, fuck it. He already has his hooks in someone who doesn't understand his tactics.
'big government' is a meaningless phrase treated as some sort of aphorism in certain circles, when people say it as a defined thing I don't know how to interpret it. If you're suggesting a government with a particularly wide scope trying to micromanage everything is a bad thing, well yeah, i think at heart everyone would agree with that. Does that mean I'd want some group of helpful 'community' folks graciously taking over local policing duties? No.
My opinion would be a government should be in proportion of size and desire to the people it's governing. If it exceeds those bounds it should be reigned in, not disbanded. Disbanding one .gov on a spur only means you'll be getting a mystery box surprise for the next one.
I started to phrase it as 'federal government', but that would be a blaspheme on the principles that the federal government of the United States of America was founded upon. As is it's present incarnation.
"government with a particularly wide scope trying to micromanage everything is a bad thing" I can agree with this. But I also contend that S&P 500 corporations trying to attain monopoly power is a bad thing. In fact, I think most of the ills of our current society and economy are the result of 'big'; Big government, Big Pharma, Big media, Big Ag, TBTF, the list goes on.
Would you agree with this; any miscreant with the means to gain control of a startup with enough 'story' to float an IPO can, through M&A, attain large enough size to become a problem?
Big is the word that throws me I guess, in a country where you have 100Ms of people you will have 'big' governmental institutions. In a perfect world I'd hope simple (rather than complex), transparent, accountable and narrow in scope. And obv as separate as possible from the private sector.
And a lot of the problems seem to stem from mission creep. I'm obviously not someone who understands the separation of powers well, but to me it looks like the federal government has gotten a whole lot of very unfortunate mission creep. It also gives the illusion that people in SF should be governed exactly as people in cheyenne or people in el paso, setting up inevitable friction. But i wouldn't take from that that the federal government needs to be disbanded, just reigned in.
'big' as far as private institutions go is an inevitable result of capital concentration (and probably related to government 'big'ness), but that's a whole other topic..
Would you agree with this; any miscreant with the means to gain control of a startup with enough 'story' to float an IPO can, through M&A, attain large enough size to become a problem?
No, though you'd have to define 'problem' in regards to who.
Keep in mind, the federal government is only expressly empowered to deliver the mail, maintain the common defense, collect taxes, and 'regulate' commerce. The only one where we don’t have mission creep is delivering the mail. Without that last one, someone could still run a small business in this country. That's how bad the mission creep has become.
@Zhandax
You are right. Can I add that the feds are prohibited from collecting direct taxes from the citizens? They were to only collect taxes apportioned to the states.
@Zhandax
You are right. Can I add that the feds are prohibited from collecting direct taxes from the citizens? They were to only collect taxes apportioned to the states.
Please explain why populated areas require government. You make an assumption of inevitability based on the history manifested at the hands of tyrants. Then attempt to suggest it can be controlled through some means not discernable nor spelled out.
This type of argument is an argument for the status quo- the we just need to regulate them more or pass a few more laws- WHICH HAVE ALWAYS FAILED MISERABLY. The inconsistently is typical of trolling.
But this is a complete reversal of your first comment. You said all small groups devolve into tyrannies. Therefore any form of government at any size will be a tyranny on the people. If you choose to not disband, you are choosing slavery.
But this is a complete reversal of your first comment. You said all small groups devolve into tyrannies.
Pretty sure I didn't say that.
I don't disagree that governments will trend toward tyranny naturally, which is why it is up to the people they are governing to remain engaged.
To my mind, technology / human evolution isn't at the point where an anarchist system is possible (particularly with these levels of population). If you remove the current institutions they will be replaced by others, different (contrary to the authors hopes) doesn't = better.
The standing track record is that every horrendous dictatorship was started by wonderful common folkz leading the community to a blissful + corruption free future.
Are these not YOUR words?
An oath isn't even a minor inconvenience to those people. It is simply a cute archiac relic
a good way to look at it is "Constitutional obedience"
Probably. We see how well the military upheld their Constitutional oath with a usurper.
Who, Bush? Cheney? Rumsfeld?
To that point, I will reply that a lot of people simply didn't believe the level of BS that the government was capable of back then, soldiers included. It's not just that Obama is even worse than Bush (he is,) it is that it is so much more obvious on top of that.
A lot of people didn't. I fucking did. But if it makes you feel better...
And that is where there might be some justification in calling Obama even more incompetent - not being able to hide it. The alternate is that he (front for TPTB) is in a position of not needing to hide it.
I guess the authors on zero hedge didn't read the grand jury testimony either. Ferguson is not a conundrum; it is what happens when you attack someone, especially a cop.
I know there are abuses made by the police but when we rally around a horrible example we put the focus in the wrong area, and ultimately install roadblocks to possibility of any real change.
It is no different than the occupy wall street movement focusing on the 1% when it wasn’t the 1%. The majority of the 1% is not the problem, just like the majority of police and the majority of police procedures. Occupy wallstreet should have focused on the banks and government. This movement also needs to focus on the right issues such as forfeiture. Militarization is also an issue which has come up but has been overshadowed by the hands up BS.
Hear hear!
It seems some people desperate for "change" will eagerly rally around the wrong event, for the right cause, every single time. They should be asking themselves why they are constantly being manipulated into doing so.
They probably think they would have died some noble death (fighting the good fight!, power to the people! etc.) if one of the Oath Keepers had popped them in the head as they continued to try & loot or burn Natalie’s Cakes and More or alternately, having seen one of their own killed for trying to loot and burn, had all their biases confirmed.
The truth is, there are people who voluntarily put their ass on the line for someone else all the time, without the someone ever asking. They don't look at what skin color you have first (because they themselves come in all shades) or what your ideology is or whether you can afford to pay them back later for services rendered.
Its not why they're there.
The biggest problem is when the fuzzy minded media and it's apologists imbue arsonists and looters with qualities and motives they don't posess.
They are not social justice warriors.
They are opportunistic criminals and mental defectives who only want to destroy. That's it. Period.
It seems some people desperate for "change" will eagerly rally around the wrong event
Oh, but they aren't the wrong event. We aren't dealing with facts, we are dealing with the establishment version of the meme, properly known as "The Narrative"©
"Gentle Giant"
"Tea & Skittles"
"Privileged White Lacrosse Players"
There are any number of LE execution videos on YouTube - death penalty for non-compliance in 3, 2 , 1... they never make a stir in the national consciousness. The Cheshire Killers, the Wichita Massacre, the Knoxville Horror... any number of death penalty deserving people must be amused that holding a pocket knife too long can trump their crimes.
/Lamericus Davidson is now 5 years and counting on TN Death Row
Understood Ben and like you, I would rather a thousand guilty go free than to have one innocent convicted.
Thats why the ancient right of trial by jury is ours, not the states or kings. This includes the grand jury system composed of us and ultimately that is what is being attacked by all this in my opinion. The thing about a grand jury is another can be reconvened if other evidence is discovered, its not double jeapordy like when someone gets off and then announces yes I did it and there's nothing no one can "legally" do about it.
It would be much worse if it was only the king and his henchmen who decided who gets prosecuted and who just smiles and walks away, there would never be an elite brought to trial unless the king wanted him gone for whatever reason.
We have to remember who & what we're dealing with here and their long term aims my friend.
Now then, if we could just bring back jury nullification as a valid defense.
Returning to this, now that its down the list.
In an ideal world the jury (composed of our peers, subject to the same laws or edicts, however one wants to frame it) would know that they can always ignore the law(s) the defendant is charged with violating. It happened a lot during Prohibition and there is no formal investigation of why a jury decides the way they do.
A good example would be an ex-con, who is (contrary to how I feel about it) not allowed to "legally" own a firearm and uses one to defend himself or his family or a complete stranger from attack...and is charged with "illegally" possessing and using it. Natural law doesn't stop at the beginning of "mans law". Personally, I would ignore this onerous law and all instructions given to me by the court and its officers that I must find him guilty because he had it and used it in his defense or anothers defense.
But of course, we can never say that up front, we would be stricken from the potential jury pool ;-)
Awesome, stealing that!
Nice to see that the question from one contributor on this site as to "What have the Oath Keepers done" is very well realized and understood by many on this site.
Ferguson was not a horrible example. There is NO evidence, other than Wilson's testimony, that Brown attacked him. There is ample evidence that Wilson lied and his testimony was clearly shaped to check off the boxes necessary to justify his killing. All this talk about Wilson just being a cop doing his job is horseshit. His job wasn't even to make an arrest because, at the time of the encounter, Wilson didn't even know about the stolen cigars. Wilson was an asshole who rode up on two punks walking in the street who told them to get the fuck on the sidewalk. Then nearly ran them over when he slammed his car in reverse and backed up because he didn't like Brown's smartass mouth. Tried to pull the dominant you will comply bootlicker attitude and got more than he bargained for. Pulled his weapon and shot without a legitimate fear for his life and then illegally shot at a fleeing Brown thus endangering bystanders. He completely failed to do his job and the result was a dead Brown.
Brown dead because a cop can't successfully deal with a kid walking down the street. Garner dead because the cops will use whatever force necessary to compel submission to their orders and any anti-liberty "law" passed by a collecion of corrupt douche bags.
I'm sorry I actually read much of the grand jury testimony so I have to deal what is supported by the evidence.
"There is NO evidence, other than Wilson's testimony, that Brown attacked him."
All of the forensic evidence and ballistics supported Wilsons account of what happened. All of the eye witnesses that were not disproved by the physical evidence supported Wilsons account.
"His job wasn't even to make an arrest because, at the time of the encounter, Wilson didn't even know about the stolen cigars."
It is still reasonable for a police officer to ask people walking in the middle of the street to tell him to get to the side of the road, so he was doing his job.
"Wilson was an asshole who rode up on two punks walking in the street who told them to get the fuck on the sidewalk. Then nearly ran them over when he slammed his car in reverse and backed up because he didn't like Brown's smartass mouth. Tried to pull the dominant you will comply bootlicker attitude and got more than he bargained for. Pulled his weapon and shot without a legitimate fear for his life and then illegally shot at a fleeing Brown thus endangering bystanders. He completely failed to do his job and the result was a dead Brown."
All of this is pure speculation with no support from anything I have read in the evidence. What should be known by everyone is even if a cop is on a power trip you always comply, there is a way of dealing with that kind of thing, but it is at the station after the situation has resolved by you doing whatever the cop in question has said. But hey if you want to end up like Brown and give the cop "more than he bargained for" follow what Brown did.
Brown dead because a cop can't successfully deal with a kid walking down the street.
By you calling him a kid you have shown that you are bias. He was 18, legally an adult. 6'5" physically an adult. A violent criminal as shown in the convenience store video.
Garner is a different situation entirely, and though I do not know all the fact seems like much more of an injustice, but then again I should not say that without having rationally looked at the facts. Obviously you don't have the ability to look rationally at the facts of the Brown Wilson case.
I may be bias as I am a white man with family in law enforcement, but I know this and try to temper my bias and look at the case objectively. Do you have any reason to be bias?
Got any proof or does throwing mud at a wall justify what you say?
Bring in the Black Panthas for security.
Curtis Sliwa? (crickets)
Anybody? ............................Anybody?
"Stewart Rhodes (Oathkeepers founder) = Government contractor"
Bullshit futherfucker!!
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2010/03/oath-keepers
thenextboy
Wait.. So it's your mom who is the crack whore???
Well, that changes everything.
OK, so what all goes in for 79 bucks??
http://youtu.be/anwy2MPT5RE {spam spam spam}
Hey Tyler(s), Mods:
You need to update your anti-spamming firewalls, because this is the second time I've seen this "reply" in the comments section. Spam-bot is spamming, so to speak.
and now 4 something completely un related:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtM95-SpthE
There's plenty of good schoolhouses that teach running a rifle, and small unit tactics. Most are run by former SF Jedis. Start reading, and take some classes.
Hell, get hooked up with Oathkeepers and they'll get you squared away.
Keep stacking Pb.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCtzQRkrj0U
Put in another bulk order the other day. 5k across three calibers.
I'd like to have seen these Oath Keepers try and protect a TMobile store in the thick of it. I'm guessing lots of dead bodies and then flames.
If I am an oath keeper, I would feel better about protecting a local business, TMobile, not as much.
You tried?
Dude when I was young and dumb and ultimately signed up in 05', shipping in '06 they were taking anyone with a pulse.
Tats on your face? No problem, here's a waiver. Felon? No problem, here's a waiver. Overweight? No problem, here's a waiver. Too old? No problem, here's a waiver. Known gang member? No problem, here's a waiver. Couldn't pass high school? No problem, here's a waiver.
Skip ahead four years, a couple deployments here and there, watching a system where ass-kissing rather than merit garners promotions, and well...it all got old and wasn't worth arguing against trying to get others to see what I was seeing.
I got out for a variety of reasons, but mostly because I "woke up" and started questioning things. I just no longer believed in what I was doing, that for me it was just no longer the right thing to do.
Did the same...though took me 12 yrs to get tired of all the politics. where have the Teddy Roosevelts gone? Are they no more?
I thought about joining up after high school. All the adults around me, including my father (who had served in the Army) told me not to, because I was as far as you could get from tolerating that kind of "no problem" attitude and would have had trouble dealing with fellow soldiers and superiors drawn from the ranks of those "no problem" people. I ended up majoring in Latin and Greek instead, which was more suited to my personality at the time -- I've learned to be more accepting over the years since then, but I was rigid as a youth.
I remember the recruiters calling when I was finishing up high school; the conversation with the Army recruiter went something like this:
Army: "So, my man, you thinkin' about college? The Army can help with your education, and you can help us with your education. What are you studyin'?"
Me: "I'm planning on majoring in Latin, sir."
Army: "Oh, that's great, man. We could use you. We need people who know languages."
Me: "You need soldiers who know Latin, sir?"
Army: "Yeah, man, we got us bases everywhere, so we need people who can speak all kinds of different languages."
Me: "Do you really need someone who speaks Latin, sir?"
Army: "Yeah, man, we do lots o' stuff in Latin America."
This turn in the conversation was neither unforseen nor unparalleled when the Navy called, and I was unimpressed. When the Marines called, however, and asked my major, their recruiter told me that I probably wouldn't be of much use to the Marines as a Latin major, although I was still welcome to apply to serve with them if so inclined. He wished me well politely and, throughout the brief conversation, showed far more intelligence and polish than the Army or Navy recruiters. I almost called him back to enlist just because of that.
This is nearly identical to my experience. After taking the ASVAB test during my junior year of high school, the Army recruiter started talking me up a couple months before the end of the year. When I return for my senior year, he had completely forgotten I existed, acting all dazed and confused when I finally approached him. Then along came the Marine recruiter, a smart, personable, fun guy to be around, filled with stories about life as a jarhead.
Even still, six years later at my exit interview, I told the career planner that they'd see Jesus Christ in dress blues swearing in before they'd ever get me again.
I did join and enjoyed it. Combat short fall tour after 18 months of initial and advanced training. The single most exhilarating time period I've been in with my pants on. Looking back now, it scares me shitless. At the time it was basic human instinct survival skills and I was highly trained and conditioned. I made it back without a scratch.
The millenials are anti-gun, anti-military fucking losers. Ignore their down arrows. Stupid fucks are getting ready to be eaten by zombies. :) Yea, they're the losers driving the pos cars with the fart can muffler and living in mom's basement.
What good is the military when it does nothing about an usurper? The military works for bankers and oligarchs.
Always have, always will. The boys keep falling for the trick. "Honor, glory, etc."
The pen, er., printer, er., computer is mightier than the sword, er., gun, er., drone.
Well, as long as the government controls the education system, they always will.
Very few Americans desired US entry into WWI, but that scumbag Wilson sold them out (as always).
Of cource I'm anti military. The pentagon has spent 10s of trillions of dollars and hasn't won a war since Korea.
What kind of fucking retard is "pro-military"?
You must really, really like the goverment huh? Like it when they take care of you, and feed you? Like it wehn they pay you to kill baddies for their banker overseers?
You sound like a real loser, and a stupid fuck, so I guess you're a mellenial?
Goodluck with your zombie film fantasy buddy.
Gummint. ctrl-alt-del
i started my own army with practice and moar practice, plus some common sense.
now i am prepared for/from the enemy within. liberate yourself and start your own army!
have a very smily face type day, ha (ps fuck u too)...
Yup, This is the model that has worked for the last 5,000 years. Paid mercenary armies always end up being a problem eventually.
One of the things I'm studying in-depth right now is the collapse of the Mamluk empire. So what collapsed the empire?
Genghis Khan? They took a beating, but the empire remained. The black death? Nope, Islamic cities were far more sanitary than their Euro counterparts of the time. Tamerlane? Barely a dent around Aleppo.
Corruption and extortion of the populace by ruling elites? Yeah that's the ticket.
I'll venture to guess that government corruption is the cause of death for around 100-100% of civilizations.
Enough of this bitch and her gofundme bakery scam...
http://www.gofundme.com/NataliesCakesnMore
She got a broken window in the rioting, got on TV and cried about it, and someone quickly offered her a free replacement.
She set up the gofundme scam looking for 20K to cover "other damages". Rush Limbaugh gives her some huge publicity and she goes over $200K in donations in just two days. The page is still up, soaking every last dime out of gullible white people who are desperate to believe in the existence of "good black people".
Now it appears she has also benefited from free security provided by still more gullible white people.
Is it any wonder blacks act like spoiled (and retarded) children?
You complain about social media exposure that obviously serves as your master?
I've been saying this a lot recently with everyone across the country up in arms about all the police brutality and the media portraying it as racism.....the things that are happening around us are not racism, there is a serious level of moral decay that has been happening for the better part of the past century, and now people are finally opening their eyes to it. It's not about white/black/asian/indian/hispanic, it's not about one group having better opportunities than another, it's finally happening that these elites are showing their true colors, showing American citizens that their rights matter none to them, but the elites rights are supreme.
When people argue the race card I ask:
How many banks/bankers/financeers have been indicted?
How many US military officials have been indicted for the killings of innocent Middle Easterners via drone or surprise raids?
How many police have been indicted for their killings? Transversally how many police killings have happened to ever type of race? How many crimes have the police failed to prevent? How many petty crimes have been blown out of the water and deaths occured?
Why is it that a kid can kill 20+ people in a movie theater and be taken alive, yet a man selling smokes gets choked to death? - if you think it's race you're terribly mistaken....
I hope that the events, while tragic to the families, open up peoples eyes to how badly we've been manipulated from every angle to believe in things that just don't exist. Racism is not real in my opinion, racism is something that was in the past heavily, then thwarted for equal rights, and now back because of high power political figures saying it is. Cops aren't killing blacks because they are black, they kill because they can get away with murder, they are now above the laws.
I don't know, I am not happy with the things that are happening around us and I am glad to hear of these Oath Keepers, I was unfamiliar with them before. Best of luck to them and all of you out there, because we are about to enter Hurricane Shit Storm here in the USofA.
/end rant.
The golden mask sometimes slips a bit, and we catch a glimpse of the monster beneath.
Well said. I think now that all the that glimmers is not gold and that all our gold is gone, the monster can no longer hide. I really believe these types has put themselves into a position where they are open now, no lie, no manipulation, no nothing can stop their exposure.
This is an interesting article. I said before when this all started, watch, these rioters will act stupid and do what they do, police will over step their reach or do nothing with the .gov escalating things, and at that exact very point these types of people will step up and guide the way. I don't fully blame the rioters, just misguided rage and ignorance, they will come around. It will take time, but they will come around to the fact it's not us against them, but elite against us.
Inspirational stuff. For what it's worth, I wish everyone in the Oath Keepers organization my best wishes and luck.
I see from the website that Oath Keepers carefully avoid any direct confrontation with the federal govt., and advocates disobedience of what they deem unconstitutional acts rather than seeking to bring justice to those who break the Constitution. But I think they already know that confrontation may soon happen whether they like it or not, because disobedience is never tolerated by those drunk with power. It's a smart move to recruit from first responders and as long as they know how vulnerable they are to infiltration from agent provcateurs, I am sure such an organization will thrive and grow in these uncertain times. Might be an idea to recruit some retired intelligence people - there are many decent ones still around.
Love the Oath Keepers.
When I heard about their formation back in 2009 I thought "Well that's nice but it will never amount to anything."
I am so glad to have eaten those thoughts. I've made contact with countless LEOs and former vets that are Keepers. I've even known quite a few Nat'l Park Rangers that are admant about it.
Overall these men and women give me hope...and not that bullshit that Reciever in Chief sported back in 2008.
Hopefully they can keep out the Fed worms and agents provacateur.
Burn popcorn, not Ferguson.....!
nothing an m252 couldn't solve
Thanks Oathkeepers.
There was a good interview about this woman's business with one of the OK's but I can't find it now. According to the interviewee the cops leadership were forcing the rank and file to threaten and harass them. And the Feds set up a sniper team on them at one point. The cops had told them there was no way anyone in local or state PD could have sent in a tactical team into the area to target them without them knowing about it
No wonder they want to label all ex-military crazy and take their guns. They know they'll get their ass handed to them by those guys in a fight. Fear is what keeps a government in check. And the government, their agent provocateurs and paid mercs and every day thugs fear these guys
Edit: Here's the video. Worth a listen. When you Americans need to take up sides in your upcoming American Spring or understand how the game is working with the different parties involved this will give you some good insight. It looks like if you can't team up with a militia that has OK's then your next best bet is find some local OK's and let them know who you are. Although I don't doubt some of these guys are sellouts too. That's the cointelpro game infiltrate everything. So choose wisely
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoVa8J3FKBI
Ignore the source. BS is full of BS. He's just another puppet offered up as an alternative news source. His Black & White B logo styled similarly to the bat signal is a dead giveaway. The fact that he pals around with Luke "Why don't I get beaten or arrested by security when I repeatedly confront Henry Kissinger at private events" Rudkowski should have already told you what you need to know
One-dimensional tactics are often more dangerous to the activist group fighting for freedom than they are for the power oligarchy, and I see them promoted all the time. How often have you heard some idiot (or paid provocateur) rambling about a march on Washington, D.C., to “arrest the criminals” (the criminals in D.C. are middlemen as replaceable as lawnmower parts, not that a blind march into the mouth of the beast would accomplish anything anyway). What about the insane and historically ill conceived option of military coup? What about random violence against random targets, forsaking the very principles by which our movement sustains itself? Even if a movement “wins” in such a way, it still loses after becoming the monster it sought to destroy.
Hey Stewart...
When you can tell me for a fact that a million peaceful protestors showing up in Washington to knock on the door of there elected Federal legislators they pay for to tell them they won't leave D.C. until they have no more troops sent to invade and occupy another sovereign Nation let alone dealing with the violation to our civil rights and abuses by a military police that's been infiltrated at the State and local level as being a completely useless exercise because "they are replaceable" -I'll shut up...
My question to you Sir is have you tried it yet?... And how many active military and veteran "Oath Keepers" alike are willing to go AWOL and take the risks necessary to shut Washington down completely for just one or two weeks to get the point across like a pfc Manning who is rotting in prison for doing the honorable things none of you had the courage to do yourselves when you were violating your oaths to God and Country?
Let us know when you are ready, willing and able to go live on Genesis with Alex Jones to tell your followers the real truths of how we got here and that if we're not relentless on the team in the Nation's Capitol and every replacement that follows each and every one of them like it was 13 years ago Oath Keepers and the rest of the civilian population may be watching the worst exchange ever if AIPAC's boy Ashton Carter and rest of the bought off politicians in Washington start the only one that will matter in Eastern Europe! Clock is ticking...
Say hello to Dan for us!...
You could also argue that we don't know for certain that doing a running faceplant into Obama's cadre of Secret Service snipers wouldn't change things for the better. But, there is such a thing as common sense, historical precedence, and strategic logic. You don't have to make a stupid mistake or use a tactic designed by the mentally retarded in order to know that it won't work. The real enemies are in the international banks, not in Washington D.C. How would a million man march on D.C. change anything? D.C. is just real estate to these people, nothing more. Occupying it means nothing.
But, there is such a thing as common sense, historical precedence, and strategic logic. You don't have to make a stupid mistake or use a tactic designed by the mentally retarded in order to know that it won't work.
rm
You simply prove my point that we will always determine that there are far too many of them then there are of us...
Are protecting the "Mom and Pop" stores in Ferguson what we really need to be doing at this stage of the crisis?... And if so. How much longer do you think we have before the international bankers get what they want anyway?
It's always been about the numbers showing up at the proper time and in the proper place that change the course of things.
Oh, my! That's been tried before and we already know it doesn't work. The WWI vets were promised a bonus for their service, which didn't materialize as the Depression intervened, so they occupied DC and camped out to try and force the issue. They were run off by overwhelming military force. Look it up. Is it different this time? TPTB know that playbook well and haven't forgotten recent history.
That was a long time ago...I doubt things would replay the same way if it happened today.
Einstein's definition of insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results. Why do you think its different this time? That incident wasn't even so long ago. It was within living memory in my family until my grandfather, a WWI vet, passed in the 70's. Look at your American history. Just as China has always historically defended SE Asia from any exterior threat, the US government has always, always met any interior challenge with overwhelming force. They don't fool around. They don't bargain. Its a tactic that has worked every time.
Oh, my! That's been tried before and we already know it doesn't work. The WWI vets were promised a bonus for their service, which didn't materialize as the Depression intervened, so they occupied DC and camped out to try and force the issue.
Good point Ttg, but you left out the part about "mutually assured destruction" that wasn't part of the working lexicon of the WWI Veteran 82 years ago and an outpost in the Middle East that was created by the Anglo-American establishment that doesn't adhere to ANY nuclear proliferation treaty that the rest of the World MUST abide by because they are "God's chosen people" -who will either unilaterally use it or get there patron to use it for them!...
Delighted we could share this little informative chat together!
I fail to see how that has anything to do with this discussion. Are the Israeli's going to nuc us?
I fail to see how that has anything to do with this discussion. Are the Israeli's going to nuc us?
No actually Ttg it has everything to do with priorities and making sure that you don't enforce sanctions and create civil wars on the borders of an equal that can destroy the planet 10 times over if you miscalculate the response.
On Israel starting it I don't know for certain?... But given their track record with the U.S.S. Liberty, and 9/11 and this warning from the Commander-in-thief last March when that "outpost" made the dramatic announcement shortly before that they would be closing their embassies around the globe! They sort of have a track record and I certainly wouldn't bet against it especially if the banking cartel continues to hemorrhage debt the way they have been the last 14 years!
But you're right about the pattern of delusional behavior that Oath Keepers and Zionist in this Country and the rest of Western Europe that believe there are other things more important to worry about!
The nuclear problem seems to me to be a whole other kettle of fish and beyond the scope of the present discussion.
The nuclear problem seems to me to be a whole other kettle of fish and beyond the scope of the present discussion.
You obviously have a distorted sense of reality and forget how close the U.S. came to nuclear showdown(s) ones that we don't know about during the Cold War years and ones we do Pristina 1999 and South Ossetia 2008 where we respected each other compared to the last 20 years when you have a classic reversal of fortune with the U.S. government going through 69 years of military spending it can ill afford now and sees every solution to a problem since 9/11 being a nail and they the hammer -just like the Soviet Union did before they collapsed which no longer makes the situation a Cold War but a "Hot" one!
Gene for the record, you make a fine "cheerleader" for the "Tribe"...
Those idiots that spam RT with this crap have found ZeroHedge - someone ban them, please.
The Oath keepers prove that the local militia principle espoused by the constitution works. Which is why it was eliminated and elements of the federal standing army put in its place.
The first part of the second amendment explains it as clear as day.
A well regulated militia BEING NECESSARY to the security of a FREE state...
This is the only place in the constitution the word "necessary" is used.
With the elimination of the militia our security and freedom was lost.
With the passage of the Federal Reserve our prosperity was lost
With the passage of the 16th income tax we became renters
With the passage of the 17th individual state sovereignty and participation in the national government was lost.
1900 -1914 saw the formal death of the republic and the birth of the despotic democracy we enjoy today.
Your first few sentences capture my sentiments regarding standing federal armies. A distinction of necessary scholarship in the interpretation of the Constitution is another tactic employed by those who enslave. The choomster in chief is a "constitutional scholar"? That's like saying Justin Beiber is Niccolo Paganini.
Yes, 1 Million Lawyers in USA. They are making us miserable and destroying the American Idea, the American Dream, and the US Constitution.
The state of Justice has failed. The Economic Winners rule the country and have private security to keep themselves safe... in Chicago that is a big difference.
Business Case #1, Chicago Crime, Prisons, Incarceration rates, Reform Rates, Failure of Drug Laws, Budget Failures, Retirement & Pension Risks, Schools System Expenses.
Exactly, we should only have well trained state militia that can be called together to fight should there be a national threat.
But they want us to forget our American history and our European Masters.
Hell European History has just as many examples of bad government, Democide, Corrupt Governments, and Oppression.
Even today they oppress the history of Free Trade that the USA lives under today, inauditable Foreign Work Conditions, Slave Labor that can be hidden anyway.
- Buck up Bunky, Work Harder, Pay more for Education, Take a couple of Part Time Jobs, plan on bankruptcy in your later years due to Health Care costs...
Late ADD: We have a young Country in USA, 200 years is very young for claiming we are past the days were people need arms in case of a Despotic Government... Many PC type thoughts are about how you can trust the police & Government to provide high paying full time jobs, and provide all the protection you need, no need to physically train or practice martial arts at all... Not true. The Globe is partly in the stone Age, part in the Middle Ages, and Part in the Modern or Post Modern Age.
Police are supposed to be nothing more than members of the local community that are paid to do what any citizen can already do. Specialization is one of the things that allows incredible efficiencies. The exact moment any law is passed that identifies a police officer (or any abstractly defined group) as having different laws/rights/penalties than the other members is the moment you have just passed into tyranny.
When this country was founded, we didn't have a whole lot in the way of police. You are legally responsible for your own safety. A cop wants to finish his donut when he KNOWS that your life is in danger and he KNOWS he could stop it, yet he eats his donut and watches you die? Guess what? Your family has no standing to file a lawsuit against that cop. There are no criminal charges that could be filed against the cop that would withstand constitutional muster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lzpDwaxGk4
What continually blows my mind is how in some states the people support an arrangement where the citizens aren't allowed to protect themselves even though, like you said, cops have no duty to protect anyone.
Edit: Technically their sole job is crime-historian and the only mandate is to investigate crimes that are reported to them. Makes me sick when I see police out in public searching cars with dogs and harrassing people trying to arrest them for anything. Don't even get me started about victimless crimes.
Yes, and we have Wildlife that is dangerous too. Often they don't want to let us shoot animals in self defense... or even sharks.
Wild Boars are a big Problem for instance.
Yeah, sharks aren't really that dangerous, and I've spent a lot of time in the woods, and for the most part, the wildlife isn't that dangerous. Lions? Well, we have mountain lions here. They'll stock you, and that's creepy as hell. But, the cougar attacks are far, far less often than police shootings.
Agree. Guns are a tool. Mostly I have never needed one except for hunting. Maybe was assaulted with a gun 1-2 times.
But there is utility in learning skills, learning to clean both pistol & rifle, try some physical skills training, rope work on rocks, scuba, hiking, cleaning fish, cutting some meat for cooking at home, cooking, camping, driving, riding, swimming...
So you have tools, you have right to defend, you have property rights, individual rights,... and you have life skills with utility. Job or Economic Skills.
Women in the woods with Menses? Attract bears??
Late add: Guns are also signals, scare animals & People away, attract help in an Emergency, Signal Danger. Animals are aggressive no matter the size of them, Squirrels, Snakes, Alligators, Musk rats, Elk, Deer, Dogs, Mountain Lions, Wolves, Hogs... I don't have the skills to deal with Aggressive Animals.
The ONLY thing the government is obligated to provide is security so it follows that if they are kicked out, they won't be getting their taxes. In come the local militia, but eventually they start to demand money to "cover expenses." Long story short, you replace the evil with the unaccountable and they turn into mercenaries who cannot be removed except by other mercs.
There is no need for this. Taxes = security, so stand up and demand that the gov't honour their contract; if not, elect an independant. Otherwise the only possible outcome is civil war. If the Bundy Ranchers had started a movement not to pay taxes, the gov't would not have been reticent to bring in the troops and shut it all down.
It depends on the makeup of the community. Small town America this is still pretty much how its done since there isn't much in the way of law enforcement. Areas like Ferguson, I doubt it. Look at George Zimmerman. He was patrolling his own neighborhood and the race baiters wanted him hung from the nearest tree.
This is the only real solution.
We will never beat the cops with cop strategy, cop tactics or cop thinking. They outgun us 10 to 1 and they are trained in that shit. Even if we could beat them with violence, all that would mean is that we'd be even more brutal than they are, so we'd be no better off. Nonviolence/noncooperation with the State is the only long term revolutionary strategy that stands a chance of changing anything.
If "we" start killing "them," we are no better and no different than they are.
The Oathkeeper website had some really practical advice for the cops in Ferguson.
Forgive me but this is so much damn common sense it is stunning to me why the cops are not following the suggested strategy I am cutting and pasting from the site. It really is a compelling argument that the cops are being directed to make things worse, not better. And I am not very conspiracy sympathetic but damn this advice is so common sense that it begs the question "Why?"
http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2014/11/24/oath-keepers-open-letter-to-the-p...
Cut and Paste:
A Constitutional and Effective Strategy
One retired Special Forces veteran in our group suggested that instead of grouping the police officers in large blocks (50 to 100 men), that you should break up these groups into rapid reaction teams of 20 to 25 officers and disperse them, staging them in places spread around Ferguson, with a focus on the looters, not the protesters. Our intelligence and police veterans concurred, and added that you should alsotask some officers to go out in street clothes to blend in to the crowds and work as Scouts, identifying threats and looters. The plainclothes Scouts should be directing the rapid reaction teams to protect the businesses from the ongoing crime, and refocus the police assets away from unconstitutional activities like shooting CS gas at peaceful protesters and enforcing curfews, and get to the business of putting the real criminals behind bars. If you think you need more minority officers for this role, you could easily find them in the St. Louis County Police Department, St. Charles County Sheriff Department, and other local municipal police departments. The plainclothes officers can identify and locate the trouble-makers and their caches and resources, such as gas cans and bottles for Molotov cocktails, bricks, etc., and they can also film the trouble-makers in support of later arrests and prosecutions.
Those plainclothes Scouts can also be directly backed up by small teams of five to seven additional plainclothes officers to take down identified looters in a manner that uses minimum force along with effective surprise applied only to the actual suspected looter. And those plainclothes small reaction teams can be further backed up by the uniformed rapid response teams, if needed, as they apprehend the looters and shooters. If possible, each officer should have a small, discrete camera – such as a badge camera – pinned to their clothing and running at all times, so that there is a recording of all that occurs.
An additional recommendation from one of our members was that, rather than closing portions of West Florrisant Avenue and ordering protesters to disperse, officers could place cones on the street to reserve the center lane for police use only (warning that any others entering that lane will be arrested), staging officers at various points along that center lane and using it for police vehicles, while leaving traffic free to move North and South (with appropriate turn lanes interspersed), leaving the sidewalks open for protesters and media, and not trying to confine either to any particular area. That preserves the middle lane for police to move freely back and forth along that critical two mile stretch while not restricting free speech and assembly rights.
The initial response of the Highway Patrol, to deescalate and demilitarize the situation, was on the right track. However, it also failed to secure the arrest of the looters. In fact, officers were explicitly told to not go after the looters. De-escalating of militarized policing against peaceful protesters was a good idea. But the “de-escalation” toward the looters and shooters – intentionally NOT going after them – was insane and failed to protect the people and businesses of Ferguson. Backing off and letting the looters run free failed to solve the problem and actually made it worse, with the success of the looters drawing trouble-makers from all over the country, who came to Ferguson to loot and shoot and incite more violence. As evidence of the failure, we now have local business owners having to hire private security to protect them from looting because the police in their community are failing to do so.
De-escalation and demilitarization must go hand-in-hand with effective policing that stops the looters and shooters. The officers must be told that if they see an act of looting or violence, they must arrest that man. That needs to be the policy from the beginning to the end. Again, we recommend the use of plainclothes officers and small reaction teams to effectively arrest looters and shooters while respecting the rights of the peaceable protesters.
With hundreds of criminals stealing the businesses of Ferguson blind and damaging private property, how many arrests of actual looters took place? The percentage is embarrassing (and arrests of otherwise peaceful protesters for “failure to disperse” or “failure to keep moving” don’t count). The Highway Patrol’s tactics did not work, and it is time to admit it. It was a mistake to remove St. Louis County from a command role. Instead, Governor, you should have directed them to use their considerable assets to go after the looters while respecting the right of the people to peaceably assemble.
Likewise, bringing the National Guard in for “force protection” secured the Command Location, but what about all the other locations where people’s lives were being destroyed? The National Guard was not the answer. Effective, smart, focused policing was. You did the right thing by finally pulling the National Guard back out. Now you just need to direct the application of effective, focused policing.
We need officers focused on looters, not on bullying the media and protesters. We need officers to put violent criminals in jail, not shoot tear gas and rubber bullets at reporters too ignorant to not shine lights in the officers’ eyes while they are trying to work. We need a Governor smart enough to reject the riot control tactics developed before cell phones – tactics that are now failing catastrophically – and smart enough to not try to stifle free speech and violate our Bill of Rights. We need a Governor to show enough wisdom to lead our state by the Constitution rather than against it with ineffective abuses like curfews. Governor Nixon, tell us you are wise enough to defeat the criminals without violating our rights. No, SHOW us you are wise enough to change your failing tactics and demand from your men that they discern between peaceful protesters and looting thugs. SHOW US, you will protect the rights of the FREE PRESS and have the courage to demand your officers arrest the real bad guys. Stop gassing the innocent and start arresting the looters!
Wisdom and discernment will go a long way on the streets of Ferguson, and it is time you focus the police on putting real criminals behind bars, not reporters and peaceful protesters.
Why are the cops not following those sensible strategies? Because the orders came down from the top, to do as little as possible to ensure Ferguson burns.
It's super easy to be useless and ineffective, so that part was easy.
And since very few people bother asking why they were so useless and incompetent, they didn't have a lot of uncomfortable questions to answer.
What are you smoking? There's about 1 million LEOs in the country. There's 60 million gun owners. Do the math.
i think rand paul had an excellent point about the eric garner murder. eric has murdered by new york cops who were paid to enforce the tax laws.
i think the eric garner murder should be the foundation that america builds a "tax revolt" on.
forty acres and a mule has become "murdered in the streets of new york for taxes, without representation"
That case does get me thinking about Taxes too.
And what is the American Dream, Political Economic Model, while conducting Dirty Wars overseas... In a Touted Free Market System a guy can't sell Lucy Cigs in the worlds Biggest Market City???
- Fees, taxes, regulations, Deterrents to entering a Market decrease competition and Economic Activity, and Small Businesses should be the Core of the Economy, Small Business Strength and Ease of Operation should be in the top 10 Economic Characteristics of our Model
- Hell Tuition & Health Care Costs are just as much as Drag on Economic Activity... Along with Household Debt
- But New York Proves that Big Cities have a Culture of Taxes that Dampen Economic Activity, in an environment of Falling or Flat Wages and Growing Inequality in Wealth... Governments & Banks love Fees & Taxes, but Hate Auditing & Inspections
The outrageous NY cigarette tax is what created the market for "loosies", and Garner was of sufficient laziness and low character to take advantage of the opportunity and undersell law abiding shop owners in the neighborhood. From "I have a dream" to "I can't breathe", the contributions of blacks to the cause of freedom can't be denied.
Garner may have been a criminal, but he was about as harmless a criminal that there is. And, tax evasion-- which is basically the crime he was committing-- is a crime against the state, not a person.
I don't have much sympathy for Michael Brown or Trayvon Martin, but Eric Gordon absolutely did not deserve what he got. NYC cops are fucking useless. Under Bloomberg, and now Wilhelm, they have degenerated into a Keystone Kop Klown show.
His crime was ultimately resisting arrest. Watch the unedited version of the video and see that cops gave Garner time to comply, but he only became more agitated. A black female cop was the supervisor on scene, and she authorized the arrest. Nobody wanted to kill him.
Cops and the colored criminal underclass are two sides of the same problem, each looks to the other to justify their antisocial behavior. Diversity and the societal stress it causes, provides the perfect climate for the growing police state.
But they did kill him.
So now what?
A large cash settlement with the Garner family and more race hustling.
Yeah, keep playing stupid.
Again for the mentally challenged:
So now what should happen, in your opinion?
Back in the LA riots the Koreans took care of themselves just fine. Every rooftop, window, doorway and corner was a guy with a gun. Law enforcment drove off on live TV. These are little guys standing tall with like minded folks. It was like that in my tiny part of town. We simply told the looters GTFO or we will shoot you. They left fast. One window at one store one ruffed up looter. Problem solved.
I hate to think Ferguson is an example of an Economic Stimulus Program, Broken Windows, Destroyed Buildings. Or worse a kind of Policy to Take the Wealth of Business Owners in Ferguson... Reminds me of New Orleans a bit where big money can come in later to buy up property.
- Another thing, Around the Third World you see Private Security hired by Middle Class and the Wealthy... and we can be sure that Wealthy in USA have Setup Security and Hired People to keep them Safe... But in Ferguson they tried to hold off Private Security, Capitalism at work to provide Security... while protecting other cities who might have been wealthier
- Apparently Insurance doesn't cover Riots, Domestic Disturbances
It is a very Big Story, an Important Story that should be spread around and forwarded. Just like the many times Citizens use guns to stop crime and property damage.
Oath Keepers have shown us a lot. They have the Great American "Can Do Attitude".
- Christians showing they are the very best of the USA
- Gun Owners showing the best
- Conservatives or whatever political orientation showing they can be the best
- I'm not 100% sure who the Oath Keepers represent demographically, but their story is informing us, teaching us, reaching us
Article Reminded me of other crimes that seem to be ignored by government authorities... high incarceration rates that ruin lives, high domestic abuse & murder rates, power hungry City officials, Loss of Individual Rights, Incarceration for non-violent crimes that ruin lives... but also ALL of the Financial Crimes, Fraud, Ratings Frauds, Foreclosure Frauds.
- Idea is the We can Self Regulate through Associations
- Maybe we can create Financial Associations that would create Financial ratings or Passing Grades to empower Consumers, Audits, Accounting Methods
- US Bar Association is supposed to Self Regulate Lawyers, but it doesn't, doesn't protect the US Constitution, Elections, SOTU Speeches, Presidential debate Integrity, or Fight Money in Politics, Justice System
- How about a Citizen Association that uses our most important Principals - To Judge Politicians, PACs, 501(c)s
- Today we have monstrous Law & Tax Systems that need to be Streamlined & Simplified, Reduced to Simple Principals, So maybe some kind of Self Regulating Association could be Set Up to Means Test Media, News Stories, Laws, Legislators, Taxes, Budgets, Number of Employees in a School District of a Standard Size like a Battalion or Division or Army
- We still have the Information to Do Proper Auditing of our Police & Government... Corruption makes everything more and more complicated... But the Pendulum Swings Back the Other Way in 2015
I read a great book once about this lady in the UK who was a career shoplifter.Her husband got drunk and beat the crap out of her (incorrectly suspected her of infidelity).
The next day the East end mobsters,the Kray Twins,show up on the doorstep wanting to know if "she wanted him sorted".Enough to make any man shit himself....
Sometimes a little local justice does work.What Ferguson has does not seem to work.
Set up community patrols and allow them to police themselves.If it doesn't work after a year or two the old system will still be there.
The cops in Oakland protested strongly that the (new) politicians' idea of busting the head gang-banger would only increase the violence (power struggle over turf).
So they arrested the fella,sent him to prison,where he was knifed to death,the turf wars broke out as expected,and the cops say"see,we told ya."
The problem with riots is that the burnt out businesses rarely return (very high arson insurance premiums).Perhaps the solution is a yearly tax which goes into a fund to compensate the business owner for his losses.That way the community benefits by protecting the shops instead of torching them after they have been looted.
One of the oldest black owned bookstores was torched during the Rodney King riots.
Globalists have a sad thought coming if they think that they can control people though a plan. On Q99X2 we learn at an early age which is the same age as now that if you put people into a situation that requires them to think and use their innate abilities to the fullest extent that reality changes not only for one but for all realities as if challenge creates possibilities that were not there. And those that are enemies, those that use their wills wills driven by human egofor control, believed that where there is a will and their will that there is a way, a way to control everybody and reality with will power. What I have seen time and again is that these ignorant stupid willful people vaporize out of existence each and everytime the power that comes with money attempts to arrive at the same end is the same exact result: reality is changed but it is changed by the oppressed.
Thus spake Q99X2
Yes, in their view we are all good Chinese who work hard, and who always follow every law blindly.
Like as Americans now we can't chose to not work, live off of fixed income, demand a good interest rate on Savings or in CDs, ... like self study isn't an option, Sabbatical without pay... being self sustaining and living a thrifty existence isn't a valid life choice.
They tax us like we have to work. Like we work for the Government to pay taxes & Fees. Like we are Chinese.
Something and I don't know what happens when people are forced to change to adapt. On a large scale an analogy may be the development of technology to vaporize oppressors. On a small scale it may be within Ferguson. On a smaller it may be just each individual that has to face situations that demands the most and everything they have to get through a series of situations. At least the living are always around after the condition is superseded out of necessity and those that created the impasse seem to disappear from the equation. Life is not graceful but the laws that govern its unfolding towards awareness are.
The concept of kicking gubmint out of the community sounds very appealing, but one must consider one thing: THEIR WILLINGNESS TO LEAVE PEACEABLY. The Bundy Ranch stand-off proved that. I forgot who said it, but a great quote goes like this: "You might not be interested in the revolution, but the revolution is interested in you."
You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.
This was attributed to Trotsky in an epigraph in Night Soldiers: A Novel (1988) by Alan Furst but it may actually be a revision of a statement earlier attributed to Trotsky: "You may not be interested in the dialectic, but the dialectic is interested in you." Only a very loose translation of "the dialectic" would produce "war."
Interesting Question...
I think this is part of the problem.
To be, or not to be, that is the question—
Whether 'tis Nobler in the mind to suffer
The Slings and Arrows of outrageous Fortune,
Or to take Arms against a Sea of troubles,
And by opposing, end them? To die, to sleep—
No more; and by a sleep, to say we end
The Heart-ache, and the thousand Natural shocks
That Flesh is heir to? 'Tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wished. To die, to sleep,
To sleep, perchance to Dream; Aye, there's the rub,
For in that sleep of death, what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause. There's the respect
That makes Calamity of so long life:
For who would bear the Whips and Scorns of time,
The Oppressor's wrong, the proud man's Contumely,
The pangs of despised Love, the Law’s delay,
The insolence of Office, and the Spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his Quietus make
With a bare Bodkin? Who would these Fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered Country, from whose bourn
No Traveler returns, Puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have,
Than fly to others that we know not of.
Thus Conscience does make Cowards of us all,
And thus the Native hue of Resolution
Is sicklied o'er, with the pale cast of Thought,
And enterprises of great pitch and moment,
With this regard their Currents turn awry,
And lose the name of Action. Soft you now,
The fair Ophelia. Nymph, in all thy Orisons
Be thou all my sins remembered.
The death throes of an old paradigm are the birth pangs of the new one. Government in all its forms does not understand common sense only naked force, violence and coercion. There can be no doubt that this "event" in Ferguson has been co-opted by government and fostered to achieve a specific end.
What is this all meant to distract from or meant to achieve is the question.
It is meant to impose marshall law and the removal of weapons from the citizens. People rioting with weopons provides the perfect reason for the government to confiscate said weapons.
The revolution is being manufactured. it's what they want, violent revolution. Now, by refusing to play, as said above, we can have a real revolution, by ignoring their power. Weapons cannot be a part of that equation.
I don't know about anyone else, but after reading this story, and about Mr. Bundy's ranch, I'd like to see my tax money diverted to the Oath Keepers. These guys are actually worth it.
I'm just plain tired of being pick-pocketed, coerced, and robbed by the gubbiment so they can use my money to push me around and intimidate me at each step.
Kudos to Stewart Rhodes and all Oathkeepers everywhere! I love these guys. They've got grit, True Grit!
Come the new year, I'm going to start donating a little hard earned cash to these guys to help with their organization and travel expenses. They're worth it.
This is the start folks, the start of a long drawn out American civil war. No violence yet, that's probably 2-5 years away.
Small acorns grow into large oak trees. These 'Oath Keepers' are small acorns right now but look at them, true patriots, believers in their country, its traditions and of course its long since trashed Constitution.
Looks like some people in the US are starting to wake up to the hidden tyranny of their government. They're starting to see through the lies, corruption and propaganda (including mis-information).
I fully expect these types of orgainsations to flowish over the coming years and the tide to turn against those fuckers in Washington.
The US for the next several years is going to get very very interesting as the people fight to get back their country from the sociopaths in control. I for one and rooting for this to happen, America is a great country and people (politicians excluded), it's so sad what's happened but at the same time creative destruction can rocket it back to the top. Good luck.