Intelligence officials claim that releasing the Senate’s torture report will cost American lives.
This is simply an attempt at CYA … no different from the NSA’s claim that revealing the extent of its mass surveillance would hurt national security.
Trying to Cover Up the Crime
American law – and top government officials – have said that the type of torture the U.S. engaged in is a crime.
People speaking out against releasing the torture report are simply trying to cover up the crime …
Matthew Alexander – a former top Air Force interrogator who led the team that tracked down Abu Musab al-Zarqawi – notes that government officials knew they are vulnerable for war crime prosecution:
They have, from the beginning, been trying to prevent an investigation into war crimes.
Why Releasing the Torture Report Will SAVE American Lives
Releasing the Senate torture report will actually save American lives.
Specifically, a top American counter-terrorism expert – former Chairman of the Department of International Studies at the National War College, number 2 counter-terror official at the State Department, and author of numerous books on terrorism (Terry Arnold) – told Washington’s Blog that prosecuting those who created the American torture program will REDUCE attacks against the U.S. and American troops.
How could this be? Well, top experts say that torture doesn’t produce any actionable intelligence … the only thing it produces is more terrorists.
Arnold explains that terrorists already know all about the torture. So it’s the American people – not the terrorists – who will be shocked by what’s in the torture report.
But publishing the report will demonstrate that America is actually backing away from its previous torture policy … which will have a huge impact on reducing terrorism. (Similarly, Arnold says that closing Guantanamo and releasing the majority of detainees who American government officials say are completely innocent would help reduce terrorism).
Similarly, Darrel Vandeveld – former prosecutor in the Guantanamo military commissions, and current Lieutenant Colonel in the Army Reserve – wrote:
Torture is a crime and the United States engaged in it. Those are two indisputable facts…
The process of self-examination and accountability has been, and remains, the only way to move forward and regain our moral and legal grounding…
We have a Department of Justice for a reason, and now it’s up to Attorney General Holder, the nation’s top law enforcement officer, to do his job and appoint an independent prosecutor to follow the evidence where it may lead…
It is critical that we hold accountable those who authorized, those who legally sanctioned and those who implemented the torture policies of one of the darkest periods in our nation’s history. What is at stake is nothing less than our democracy.
General Ricardo Sanchez, the former top coalition commander in Iraq, called for a Truth Commission so we might fully understand the failure of the military and civilian command to honor the pledge of our constitution.
Sanchez . . .stressed that the outcome must embrace a variety of solutions, including prosecution.
Sanchez stated, “When the president made the declaration that the Geneva Conventions no longer apply, we unleashed the hounds of hell and eliminated all the foundations for the training, ethics and structure we had built into our soldiers and our leaders for how to conduct these kinds of operations.”
Sanchez stated many problems could be traced to loyalties to individuals and political parties.
Former President Jimmy Carter is also calling for a truth commission with the possibility of prosecution:
“[I] like to see is a complete examination of what did happen, the identification of any perpetrators of crimes against our own laws or against international law,” said Carter. “And then after all that’s done, decide whether or not there should be any prosecutions.”
So – while the folks involved in the torture program are trying to stay out of jail – the reality is that releasing the report will save American lives.
The torture report is coming out now because it will embarrass or distract the Republicans, as much of it is from the George Bush years. With Republicans taking control of both Houses of Congress, the report might get blocked. The report will cause anger among terrorists and American voters. It will get more CIA people and people who help the CIA killed. It served no other purpose.
The author is correct - the terrorists already know about torture - there is nothing like seeing your fellow captives beheaded with a sword, or shot in the back of the head, or getting pieces of your anatomy removed. Don't think for a moment that the terrorists are any better than the US when it comes to torture.
really the only people in the dark about the doings of the CIA are the more clueless Americans-the whole world already knows. An apolitical friend of mine, more interested in cars dresses and lipstick, commented to me at the time (she lives in Manchester UK) that "Nobody here really beleives that you guys caught killed and buried Bin Laden-he died in Dec 2001" !wow
"General Ricardo Sanchez, the former top coalition commander in Iraq, called for a Truth Commission so we might fully understand the failure of the military and civilian command to honor the pledge of our constitution."
---
I couldn't have any less faith in such a man who is a part of the Agenda Project, a "progressive" organziation. In other words, an Obamanation lean forward promoter of depotism...redundant I know.
Okay ... so you LIKE torture?
Come on...torture is a very slippery term. Droning civilians in Pakistan could constitute torture, administrative segregation of prisoners for years on end might reasonably constitutute torture. My problem is with the retired general and his Agenda Project and its affliliates lists\ed below (from their parent org (Practical Progress) web site:
OrganizationsThe progressive “movement” involves millions of people and thousands of organizations. Here are some of the organizations we follow on Practical Progress.
21st Century Democrats
Advancement Project
Agenda Project
Alliance for Justice
America Votes
American Bridge
ACLU
American Constitution Society
Americans for Campaign Reform
Americans for Financial Reform
Asian American Legal
Atlas Project
Auburn Seminary
Better Markets
Brave New Films
Brennan Center for Justice
Bus Project
Business for Shared Prosperity
Campaign for Americas Future
Catalist
Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good
Center for American Progress
Center for Budget and Policy Priorities
Center for Economic and Policy Research
Center for Effective Government (formally OMB Watch)
Center for Popular Democracy
Center for Reproductive Rights
Citizens Engagement Lab
Center for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW)
Citizens for Tax Justice
Color of Change
Common Cause
Congressional Progressive Caucus
Constitutional Accountability Center
Council of Urban Professionals
Courage Campaign
Democracy for America
Democracy: A Journal
Democratic GAIN
Demos
Economic Policy Institute
Emilys List
Fair Vote
Faith in Public Life
Free Press
Higher Heights
Human Rights Campaign
Human Rights First
Human Rights Watch
Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights
Leadership Center for the Common Good
Leadership Conference on Civil Rights
League of Conservation Voters
League of Young Voters
Media Matters for America
Minnesota 2020
MomsRising
MoveOn
NAACP
NARAL
National People’s Action
Natural Resources Defense Council
Netroots Nation
New Bottom Line
New Leaders Council
New Organizing Institute
National Security Network
The Nation Institute
Open Congress
Opportunity Agenda
The Other 98%
People for the American Way
PICO Network
Planned Parenthood
Presente
Progressive Congress
Progressive Majority
Progress Now
Project Vote
Public Campaign
Rebuild the Dream
Roosevelt Institute
Sierra Club
Sojourners
Southern Poverty Law Center
Strengthen Social Security
Sunlight Foundation
Truman National Security Project
United for a Fair Economy
United Republic
US Action
Verified Voting
Vote Vets
Voter Participation Center
Wealth for the Common Good
Wellstone Action
Working America
What a long list, I guess a troll's job is never done.
Droning civilians in Pakistan IS torture,
It's not a partisan issue. I'm against torture whether it's carried out by hand (Bush and Cheney) or by air (Obama) ...
As you pointed out so significantly, I am new to ZH, so after I saw your response to me I read some of your stuff.
In my opinion you are a naive fluff-brained pussy, what the Soviets referred to as "useful idiots".
Disclaimer: I am not a follower of any of the primitive mythological cults, just so you don't leap to the conclusion that I must be jewish. I don't care one gnat turd about israel, but I do care about my own life, especially when I am travelling worldwide.
"...but I do care about my own life, especially when I am travelling worldwide..."
...in my private jet, with my manservant...
Then you wouldn't want ANY state killing indiscriminately.
You see the problem. You may not follow a cult, but your also not thinking past, reaction. Now eat the solution. Isn't that gooood... (insert indiscriminate baby babble noises so you can understand...)
You are part of the problem and the reason why US Citizens/Subjects deserve the government they get, such as yourself.
You and all your kind should be exported to ISIL, not only would the nation be cleaned up, but we would also get good video entertainment courtesy of ISIL !
I can't quite figure the angle to releasing this report now, because it was for months a cause celeb during the TOTUS's early tenure when AG Holder publically stated that his Department was considering whether to indict CIA employees for committing torture.
It is a very entirely partisan issue imho. The DemPervs and especially their nominated and elected POTUS railed against the alleged 'abuses' of power by GWB, but for six years, they openly supported (overwhelmingly) every lie, abuse, and prevarication that dwarfs GWB abuses gestating from this POTUS. Nothing is said or done in the Federal gov't that isn't viewed through a prism of ideology, almost all of the Left. The Goiter Ole Party is mostly filled with either fellow Statist travelers, or frightened collaborators.
No Wonder Impeachment Was “Off the Table”: Democrats Approved Mass Surveillance and Torture … and the Subsequent Cover-Up
So we will live to see a true barely concealed dictatorship...regardless of the branch of the same Party. Effing depressed beyond words...
More like CEO of Corporate America....It is all Bussiness........All for Profit...Bomb, takeover the charge to rebuild and takeover. No Conscience at all. Yet Very Religious,. Does not Compute.
Mitch the Cadaver doesn't take control until January, so Reid and Feinstein can do whatever they like.
"Mitch the Cadaver doesn't take control until January, so Reid and Feinstein can do whatever they like."
This Mitch?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDkl7oRNmG4
Oh, I don't need to find conspiracies, because his tenure as top dog of the GOP in the Senate, through huge losses of 2006, 2008, poor showings in 2010 and 2012, his collaborator relationship with Reid's many slimy abuses of power is overwhelming enough.
oops....isis just captured a shit load of sam's. I guess syria I mean isis can start shooting down the chosen jews.
The Israelis have lived with the Assad civilian butcher machine for nearly 50 years. The border between them has been quiet since 1973. ISIS is obviously not in the Israelis' interests even using the most convoluted conspiracy logic.
- The Assads haven't butchered Syrians for decades?
- The Assads didn't killed over 20,000 so called palestinains in the Hama massacre of the 1982?
- Assad wasn't and isn't in Israel's interests? Such as this:
http://english.al-akhbar.com/node/8733 Hafez Al-Assad in 1976 By As'ad AbuKhalil - Thu, 2012-06-21 17:33- Angry CornerPeople of my generation cannot (and should not) forgive and forget. What happened in 1976 changed the course of contemporary Lebanese history and prolonged the agonizing years of the civil war. In 1976, the PLO-Lebanese National Movement (LNM) coalition was on its way to defeat the pro-Israeli Phalanges militias in Lebanon, after they were the ones who started the civil war on behalf of Israel and the US.
According to Newsweek magazine at the time, the PLO-LNM joint forces controlled more than 80 percent of Lebanese territory. They reached all the way to Oyoun el-Siman in Mount Sannine and Kamal Jumblatt famously told Abdul-Halim Khaddam that the next meeting would be held in Bikfaya (the stronghold of the Phalanges and the birth place of the Gemayyels).
Arafat was forced to join the offensive after his senior lieutenants made it clear that they would not go along with his policy of neutrality in a war that aimed at defeating the PLO in Lebanon. Some senior Fatah leaders, like Abu Salih, would take advantage of Arafat’s absences from Lebanon to provide weapons to the Lebanese factions. Arafat was very restrained in his policies and Jumblatt often complained about the quality of weapons that Arafat provided.
In 1976, the Syrian regime intervened militarily in Lebanon on the side of the Phalanges and Israel. The record is available (from Henry Kissinger’s memoirs to the memoirs of Israel leaders): Syria and Israel reached an understanding in Lebanon.
The understanding was that Syrian troops would enter Lebanon to defeat Israel’s enemies provided that the Syrian troops stay north of the Litani river.
The Syrian troops strictly adhered to the agreement all the way until their humiliating withdrawal from Lebanon in 2005. Never once did Syrian troops dare cross south of the Litani river no matter how brutal and savage Israeli attacks on South Lebanon were. The Syrian regime intervened to smash a promising revolutionary movement that would have changed the map of the Arab East.
0 Place our agents and helpers everywhere
http://understandingtheworldtoday.wordpress.com/
You keep posting at the top of the thread, so I'll just leave this history lesson right here:
Countries
Just for the record (who cares but), I don't support any of the referenced actions dating back to the 1940's. I didn't support the first Iraqi war, the 11 years of constant airspace patrolling after that war, the war on the Serbs, but did support the 2003 invasion and occupation of Iraq, but not the nation building predictable failure thereafter.
"...but did support the 2003 invasion and occupation of Iraq..."
LOL...what are you, a fucking retard?
and what did Iraq do to us before 2003?
My major was political science (Int'l relations) with a history minor at the undergraduate level, and again as I responded below...It shows the dark workings of Empire, whether that be the UK, US, or French. It doesn't reflect anything regarding the Israeli attempts or abilities or interests to influence outcomes in any of these nations.
Are you hasbara or engaging in hasbara?
Are you on the BoD for CAIR, or do you act as a conduit for funding destined to the various Islamist murder groups of the past 50 years? I know you can't (wink, wink) tell us how you've managed such operations via Pali gas stations up and down the 1-95 corridor since the 1970's.
No, I am none of those things. I'm of a Judeo-Christian background and faith.
Now can you please be so kind, sir, as to directly answer my question?
You didn't ask a question, you utter a declarative propagandizement.
I do not mean to propagandize. I am asking whether you are engaging in hasbara, which is the term that pro-Israeli propagandists use for their own efforts ... i.e. "explanation". Is it not, sir?
Indeed, the fact that you won't answer a straightforward question but instead try to spin it shows me that you're a shill.
What is your given name? 5 shekels you're of Arab/Persian descent. You can't answer the original question, and I understand why you like any Arab or Muslim resorts to 'are you a Jew/Zionist,' when I thoughtfully and in good faith ask why ISIS taking Syria (Assad) is in the national security interests of Israel. The shill is you, sir.
I am NOT of Arab or Persian descent. I don't care whether you are Jewish or not.
I DO care that you are shilling for the nation of Israel by engaging in the form of internet trolling called "hasbara" which defends her no matter what she does, and no matter how opposite her actions are to the teachings of the Old Testament and the Torah.
Bye bye shill ...
Well, I don't know if am gratified or disappointed that a regular special guest columnist for Tyler can't even proffer why ISIS taking down Assad is in the Israeli national interests.
Decades ago, the "Clean Break" report recommended that Middle Eastern rivals to Israel be broken up, recommending that the seeds of chaos would keep different tribes fighting each other instead of becoming regional powers.
If you had read the links posted for you, you would have known that, and seen source links to back it up.
George, I did read the links. Keeping the various minor tribes fighting is what Empires have done ever since. The US gov't didn't materially support the Israelis until after 1967, and that had almost nothing to do with their cause, but to thwart the USSR; to wit the petrodollar.
I this matter understanding a bit more matters. The Bank of England was responsible for using a currency board to initialize the economy. Check: Palestinian Mandate: http://www.drberlin.com/palestine/
Follow the money. If you cannot wrap your mind around the possibility of long term, like multiple life time strategy then you will not be able to make sense of what is happening. You need to dig past approved education. A good start is the physical money. Isn't it weird how we don't study history through growth of physical coin and currency. This was NEVER mentioned in any of my education. (Look at the production reports in Great Britain before WWII, they knew war was coming before the first bullet was fired well ahead of time.)
The greatest asset on this earth is not oil. It is people. Once you see this, then you will understand why people are directed the way they are.
The crime of the century. When people have no control over their currency (their property), they are slaves. This illustration clearly defines how one government, Britain, apart from the Palestinian people, transferred to another government, apart from the Palestinian people, the foundation of Israel.
The same scenario is playing out in the United States of America. And, now, the Fed is targeting other nations to deliver debt slavery over the heads of the people…
from your link…
Banknotes of Palestine – under the British mandate 1927-1947 (The British mandate over Palestine officially terminated at midnight, May 14, 1948. Earlier in the day, at 4:00 p.m., David Ben-Gurion proclaimed the creation of the State of Israel and became its first prime minister):
The Palestine Currency Board was appointed in 1926 by the British Secretary of State for the Colonies, and was in charge of the introduction and control of currency in Palestine under the British Mandate. The activities of this board, completely independent of local government, were confined to the issue of currency banknotes which were backed by an equivalent amount of Sterling in London. On February 7, 1927, The Palestine Currency Order created the Palestine pound which was divided into 1000 mils. …
The 1927 Currency Order specified that banknotes be issued in denominations of 500 mils, £P1, £P5, £P10, £P50, and £P100. These banknotes were issued from November 1, 1927 on the eve of the tenth anniversary of the Balfour Declaration until the termination of the mandate in 1948, when over 59 million Palestine pounds were in circulation....
From their original issue of September 1, 1927, banknotes of the Palestine Currency Board were legal tender in Israel until September 15, 1948, even though the State of Israel was formed four months earlier on May 14. Beyond September 15, all banknotes were to be redeemed for an equivalent amount in British pounds….
Absolutely. =)
Notice how none of the trolls participate in this conversation.
Kinda like cockroaches and light.
We must all remember to navigate the subject of the conversation back to these pillars of control, always.
(Without the control of a states money, the negative forces at large will be dealt a great blow. The trick will be to avoid a war.)
With Saddam out of the way and Iraq thus brought under Jordanian Hashemite influence, Jordan and Turkey would form an axis along with Israel to weaken and “roll back” Syria. Jordan, it suggested, could also sort out Lebanon by “weaning” the Shia Muslim population away from Syria and Iran, and re-establishing their former ties with the Shia in the new Hashemite kingdom of Iraq. “Israel will not only contain its foes; it will transcend them”, the paper concluded.
===
Jordan's Hashemite kingdom is the weakest of royal monarchies since its inception. You can read public domain - US diplomatic memoradum - dating back to the 1950's discussing how to save them. They don't have oil and how they've survived is beyond me. Heck the Arab Legion was filled with British military leading the attacks against the Jews during their war of independence. I predict Jordan will be the next to fall.
I'm not saying the gentlemen who wrote "Clean Break" were correct in every respect. But their proposal was to break up surrounding countries to strengthen Israel.
And the same guys who wrote "Clean Break" took over the U.S. foreign policy apparatus, so they could make it happen in both countries. Want proof?
"I'm not saying the gentlemen who wrote "Clean Break" were correct in every respect."
So, now you want to cherry pick your own 'proof' for proof?
Then, you don't have proof; you just have 'proof', i.e. allegations.
George: sometimes you're right, and sometimes you're way out in left field - so far out that you're out of the stadium in the parking lot.
Extrordinary claims require extordinary proof - not 'proof'.
Logic fail, sir ...
They promoted breaking up Arab nations because they thought it would strengthen Israel. They are still apparently breaking up Arab nations because they think it will strengthen Israel.
If they were wrong about particulars but DIDN'T CHANGE THEIR STATEGY, then they're still breaking up Arab nations because they think it will help Israel.
Get it?
It's like mainstream economists having their theories be proven wrong, but still recommending the same Keynesian/central bank manipulating medicine.
So, "promoted breaking up" = "apparently breaking up" = "still breaking up"?
Logic fail indeed!
Wolfowizt (sp) and the other one, Perelmen, I think, posited that the face of the middle east could be radically changed by effecting a few take downs like Saddam and Quaddafi. It was working. The question is whether a supposed Republic such as ours has any business conducting such 'business.'
This argument is taking way too long. As someone situated in Israel who studies our regional politics, I would simply posit that Israel rarely takes a uniform policy that aligns with a stable strategy. Falcon - To simply state that this report is bunk because Israel prefers a stable Assad is naive. Not only are there multiple tacts that can come out of bombing Assad repeatedly, there are multiple internal factions in Israel with different ideas as to how to proceed. These silly one-dimensional intepretations are naive - as naive as claiming, for example, that Palestinian factions in the Knesset openly support Assad and as they are opposed by the Jewish parties internally, so too the military apparatus opposes their Assad externally. That's just kind of stupid, but the sort of theory you're pushing.
I think Falcon is totally wrong in that he opened up this thread by stating that Israel has nothing to gain by backing ISIS as the article claims - as if "quiet" on the Golan border is a primary concern. That is just silly - it's obvious that discord in neighboring states that largely have shit-box militaries creates opportunities for Israel, while only presenting static risks that can be relatively easily managed. Sure, it might not be part of a "Greater Israel" project among the majority of military planners, but the option of neighboring discord is certainly something a strong majority of decision-makers in Israel favor. You notice how it resulted in ZERO blowback from these states when Israel was committing massacres in Gaza every couple years since 2008. That is a concrete example of the benefit of creating instability and not committing to any side.
NY Attorney General Schneiderman has "deplored" the fact that this prosecution is in the hands of a district attorney needing the support of local police to remain in office. http://observer.com/2014/12/eric-schneiderman-wants-to-investigate-futur...
These are the laws which probably were not explicitly given to the grand jury by the prosecutor.
In re Strangulation: § 121.12 Strangulation in the second degree. A person is guilty of strangulation in the second degree when he or she commits the crime of criminal obstruction of breathing or blood circulation, as defined in section 121.11 of this article, and thereby causes stupor, loss of consciousness for any period of time, or any other physical injury or impairment. Strangulation in the second degree is a class D felony.
§ 121.11 Criminal obstruction of breathing or blood circulation. A person is guilty of criminal obstruction of breathing or blood circulation when, with intent to impede the normal breathing or circulation of the blood of another person, he or she: a. applies pressure on the throat or neck of such person; or b. blocks the nose or mouth of such person. Criminal obstruction of breathing or blood circulation is a class A misdemeanor.
Did the police cause the death of Garner in violation of NY law: § 125.00 Homicide defined. Homicide means conduct which causes the death of a person or an unborn child with which a female has been pregnant for more than twenty-four weeks under circumstances constituting murder, manslaughter in the first degree, manslaughter in the second degree, criminally negligent homicide, abortion in the first degree or self-abortion in the first degree.
When the Israelis gut the Ayatollahs in Iran, the UN's collaborators w/ Hellizbaba better run as fast as they can because the entire Lebanese border is going to flame in a napalm hell on Earth. I can't wait to see 10,000 Party of God goat fckers burn like candle sticks.