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NIRP Arrives In The US: TBTF Banks Tell Customers To Move Their Cash Or Be Charged Fees
Back in June, the world was speechless when Goldman's head of the ECB, Mario Draghi, stunned the world when he took Bernanke's ZIRP and raised him one better by announcing the ECB would send deposit rates into negative territory, in the process launching the Neutron bomb known as N(egative)IRP and pushing European monetary policy into the "twilight zone", forcing savers to pay (!) for the privilege of keeping the product of their labor in the form of fiat currency instead of invested in a global ponzi scheme built on capital market so broken even the BIS can no longer contain its shocked amazement.
Well, the US economy may be "decoupling" (just as it did right before Lehman) and one pundit after another are once again (incorrectly) predicting that the Fed may raise rates, but when it comes to the true "value" of money, US banks have just shown that when it comes to spread between reality and the economic outlook, the schism has never been deeper.
Enter US NIRP.
As the WSJ reports, far from paying for the privilege of holding other people's cash (and why would they with nearly $3 trillion in positive carry excess reserves sloshing around) US banks - primarily of the TBTF variety - "are urging some of their largest customers in the U.S. to take their cash elsewhere or be slapped with fees, citing new regulations that make it onerous for them to hold certain deposits."
The banks, including J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., Citigroup Inc., HSBC Holdings PLC, Deutsche Bank AG and Bank of America Corp. , have spoken privately with clients in recent months to tell them that the new regulations are making some deposits less profitable, according to people familiar with the conversations.
In some cases, the banks have told clients, which range from large companies to hedge funds, insurers and smaller banks, that they will begin charging fees on accounts that have been free for big customers, the people said. Bank officials are also working with these firms to find alternatives for some of their deposits, they said.
The change upends one of the cornerstones of banking, in which deposits have been seen as one of the industry’s most attractive forms of funding, said more than a dozen corporate officials, consultants and bank executives interviewed by The Wall Street Journal.
One bank that is aggresively turning money away is the same bank for whom criminality is now an ordinary course of business, and has spent over $30 billion in recent years on legal charges and settlements: JPM.
J.P. Morgan told some clients of its commercial bank recently that it would begin charging monthly fees on deposit accounts from which clients can withdraw money at any time. The new charges will start Jan. 1 for U.S. accounts, according to an Oct. 21 memo reviewed by the Journal, and later for international accounts.
“New liquidity and capital requirements have changed the operating environment and increased the cost of doing business with financial institutions,” the memo read.
While ZH readers (and especially Cyprus residents) are quite familiar with the logic behind bank deposits, especially in a fractional-reserve banking system, some WSJ readers may not quite understand why this move is so profound:
Deposits have traditionally been a crucial growth engine for banks. Banks generally pay depositors one interest rate and then make loans with higher rates, often collecting fees in the process. But deposits also can be withdrawn at any time, potentially leaving a bank short of cash if too much money is removed at once.
The new rule driving the action is part of a broader effort by U.S. regulators and policy makers to make the financial system safer. But the move may inconvenience corporations that now have to pay new fees or look for alternatives to their bank.
Sal Sammartino, vice president of banking at Stewart Title, a unit of Stewart Information Services Corp. , a global title insurance company based in Houston, said he has had sleepless nights in recent weeks as he has negotiated with large banks to try to keep the firm’s deposits there. He declined to name the banks.
“Ultimately my balances aren’t as profitable for the banks, and that’s going to impact my business,” he said.
Dear Sal, if you want to complain to someone, complain to the Fed, whose trillions in bank excess reserves pumped in the system have made America's deposit base completely irrelevant on the margin, and thus give banks full liberty to do with the trillions in excess cash they have on their books as they will, even if it means chasing it out.
What is the official explanation for this dramatic monetary escalation that has so far glided under everyone's radar?
U.S. banking rules set to go into effect Jan. 1 compound the issue, especially for deposits that are viewed as less likely to stay at the bank through difficult times.
The new U.S. rules, designed to make bank balance sheets more resistant to the types of shocks that contributed to the 2008 financial crisis, will likely have little effect on retail deposits, insured up to $250,000 by federal deposit insurance. But the rules do affect larger deposits that often come from big corporations, smaller banks and big financial firms such as hedge funds. Hundreds of companies and other bank customers with deposits that exceed the insurance limits could be affected by the banks’ actions.
Overall, about $4 trillion in deposits at banks in the U.S. were uninsured, covering more than 3.5 million accounts, according to Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. data.
The rule primarily responsible involves the liquidity coverage ratio, overseen by the Federal Reserve and other banking regulators. The new measure, finalized in September, as well as some other recent global regulations, are designed to make banks safer by helping them manage sudden outflows of deposits in a crisis. The banks are required to maintain enough high-quality assets that could be converted into cash during a crisis to cover a projected flight of deposits over 30 days.
Because large, uninsured deposits would be expected to leave most quickly, the rule will now require that banks maintain reserves that they cannot use for profitable activities like making loans. That makes it much less efficient or profitable for banks to hold these deposits.
The new rules treat various types of deposits differently, based on how fast they are likely to be withdrawn. Insured deposits from retail customers are regarded as more safe and require that banks hold reserves equal to as little as 3% of the sums.
It's not just the (very rich) moms and pops that will be affected by this move: so are large institutions for whom cash on the sidelines is a key aspect of doing business:
The change affects some hedge-fund customers, rather than corporate accounts. The charges include items such as a $500 monthly account maintenance fee for demand deposits and a $25 charge per paper statement.
Larger clients with broad, long-term relationships with their banks may get a break on the new fees, according to people familiar with the situation. Banks also are likely to differentiate between clients’ operational deposits, used for things like payroll, and excess cash that can be pulled more easily, the people said.
At a National Association of Corporate Treasurers conference in October, consultant Treasury Strategies noted that the new rules “will redefine the economics and dynamics of corporate banking relationships.”
And while we have discussed the implications of NIRP previously, here are two key unintended consequences: first, "safe" assets such as Treasurys will get even more expensive, as banks rush into the safety of "high quality collateral" (a topic beaten to death last summer):
Some argue that while it is a good policy on its face, the rule potentially magnifies problems in a recession by encouraging banks to hoard high-quality assets, potentially paralyzing markets for these assets such as Treasury securities and some corporate bonds.
“This proposal, which is supposed to promote financial stability, actually does the opposite,” said Thomas Quaadman, a vice president at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.
The second unintended, or perhaps perfectly intended, consequence is that just like with money market fund reform, the underlying driver behind NIRP and all other forced capital reallocations, is to push "money on the sidelines" away from an inert mode, and into equities (as idiotic as that sounds, since every purchase of a stock means someone cash out on the other side), in the process lifting the aggregate value of equities and pushing the world's biggest stock (and bond) bubble to unprecedented heights.
Practically speaking, it means that before all is said and done, banks will be charging usurious rates of interest on even the smallest bank deposits, in a push to get every last "saver" to reallocate their wealth away from pieces of fiat paper into pieces of paper promises (held by the DTCC no less) to be paid by increasingly more cash-flow deficient companies.
And while it assures that the next market crash will be absolutely epic with everyone having gone all-in and nobody left with any dry powder, shorts to sover or "cash on the sidelines", it also means that the S&P still has a ways to go: perhaps as high as Jeremy Grantham's peak bubble level of around 2250 or higher, befire as Grantham himself predicted, the central-planners finally lose control and it all comes crashing down.
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In the banking model of nowadays there is no place for private savings. Just no need for it.
the next time I'm in a bank, I will shout, "this is a stick up!" and I will then throw my money on the floor and run out of the bank.
Keep stackin bitches.
And with that, banks just announced that they no longer have (nor need) any connection to the real economy whatsoever. A completely closed loop system between themselves, the government and the Feral Reserve.
I have been telling my parents about this potentially happening a few years back...they dont believe me...now all they have to do is take a look at their bank statements and see why there are these negative amounts being taken out every month....then they may finally believe me.
Most sheeps might not even notice those small amounts being taken out because they either dont care or trust the banks too much....but I would think at least some ppl will notice it....
Its time to take our money out of the fuckin banks, its a privilege for them to hold our money so they can day trade in it, NOT the other way around.
They want everyone out of cash before they destroy the currency.
This is a really interesting perspective. If you own "stuff" instead of "cash" there then you can always convert back to cash, minus some transaction fees and other friction. If you own "cash" then you own "trash" that won't be worth the paper it's printed on.
I can almost believe it, except that PMs are not one of the favored assets. All of the "stuff" that folks are being encouraged to buy is of the paper variety, not the real kind of stuff that you can get your hands on.
So after thinking about it a little more, I respectfully disagree. It appears much more likely that the goal is to get people to put their "money" in places where it can be Hoovered (no pun intended) up by the people running the casino.
I'm thinking that PMs look better and better. First, there is no counter party risk. Second, the manipulated low price will end at some point, meaning preservation of capital is possibly a short term issue but not a long term concern. Third, there is no return for cash in the bank with interest rates lower than a snake's belly so there's little opportunity cost. Fourth, the CBs clearly want Au in hand, as demonstrated first by Venezuela, then by the BRICs, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, etc.
So then again, the goal may be to get me out of cash but I'm still not convinced I want to join the party.
First, it is worth pointing out that in a closed banking system a bank can lend infinite money, on the spot, as the loaned funds will deposit somewhere else in the banking system at which point the bank which is in violation of their reserve requirements simply borrows it from the bank that takes the deposit (i.e. if Bank A lends 1B, it will deposit to Bank B, which then has excess reserves to lend back to Bank A).
So, this isn't anything to do with reserve requirements. Besides, they have so much on deposit with the Fed it is a joke.
Second, cash is necessary for day to day operations (e.g. claims, payroll, etc), particularly so for the businesses being targeted.
They are simply trying to push any money they can into a very "toppy" market. I expect this trend to accellerate ... to a singularity.
Regards,
Cooter
+1
What he said.
Don't forget that "thing" you bought as an asset, is worth 10 cents on the dollar once you walk out the door with it, now it looks more like a liability, Keep stackin bitches!*
Deosit accounts have ZERO velocity and pay no taxes. if the SM get hit and folks sell en masse, the gov't benefits from higher tax revenues.
G20 meeting in brisbane a few weeks ago, they all agreed to new draft rules making deposits in bank savings accounts subject to bail-ins
the cypressification of the worlds savers is at hand. and lets be honest - if somehow there is no new crash/GFC in the next few years, the smug security these banksters will feel with this newly accessible capital cushion will certainly drive them to double and triple down on their competitive leveraging
paying no taxes may be insufficient compensation now that you are an unsecured creditor to an insolvent bank. invest accordingly
Exactly my sense of it. It has always been about getting the money on the sidelines back into the game. I'm no genius when it comes to the markets but as prices rise, it is a response to buyers actually paying more for a given stock. If these buyers are a relatively static group of buyers then what new money is coming in to buy this stuff? Sure there are retirement funds being pulled for peoples paychecks but with these numbers there must be someone buying...a lot. We know the fed has done a lot of buying but if they are now pulling back, who will fill their shoes to keep pushing new money in to keep the prices rising? I can't help but feel that a lot of this is simply shill buying and selling to deliberately push the prices up to suck the side money in. Nobody wants to miss the ride up, right? If this is so, then to what end? Are they simply trying to help make us all richer and working so damned hard to do it? Or are they simply luring our money in so we buy at the very top of the pyramid and they leave the room with bags full of what used to be our cash? Grifters?
Yea you git it, just like chopping the eye off the back of a one dollar bill.
They are handing off the bag just as you ask. But it is worse. The propaganda machine will spin the story so that it will be the fault of these last minute excessively exuberant "investors" rushing in at the top, thereby blowing the bubble up and apart.
They force you into the market and then blame you for the crash.
yes, this and that people actually withdraw cash in the hope that they spend it and thus increase the money velocity and thus gdp.
1. Remove / limit access to cash.
2. Forgiveness of debt (including their own) conditionally upon
3. Switching to entirely cashless society - digital currency only, cards etc AND
4. Surrender of property rights in exchange for certain guarantees.
We - the vast majority - will be protected. docile worker drones. Guaranteed somewhere to work, something to 'do', somewhere to live, something to eat, and nothing to own. Ever.
And so many people will look at the chaos of the alternative and be afraid. And they'll happily line up to lobotomize their freedom and their souls in exchange for some stability. Not knowing, or perhaps not caring, that this slide will last generations.
That reminds me of Marshall Brain's short story, Manna. Free to read online.
Sure fine but if everyone is lobotomized who is going to kill the rest of us in order to make it all work? There is no peaceful way to get to where they want to go.
fiat paper is not money... fiar dollar is a legal tender or debt note. fiat are so worthless - even bank don't need it anymore...you need to pay banks so they can keep it, it's like you pay for garbage collection
Peaceful Non Compliance / Non Participation into their Criminal System of Debt Bondage & Enslavement.
Everyone & their Mothers should be withdrawing all their worthless fiat from the Criminal TBTFBanksters institutions & purchase PM's with deposits into local Credit Unions.
Credit Union FTW... good advice, I don't know why people use traditional banks these days...
... and, let me see, one of the main arguments for not holding gold is that it doesn't pay interest...
good point---thanks-----I will think about this awhile ---do some math and maybe start a little stash---who knows
10 years with my Credit Union. 2004 was my awakening year. I knew something was wrong with the price of houses and took to Google. Within hours I had educated myself on the FED, fiat money, NINJA loans, Ron Paul and all the rest. Closed my BofA account and moved to my Credit Union. I think TPTB overplayed their hand with the Housing Bubble. Everyone needs a place to live and that fiasco FORCED a lot of people to wake up. I believe it's the reason Bubble 2.0 got no traction with Joe6Pack. People do learn...
I had my lesson in 2003. I'd already started using a Credit Union, but when I refinanced my tiny home to lock in a rate in 2003, and the appraisal came back at nearly 3x what I'd paid for it in 1996 (only 7 years previously), I realized potential buyers of crackerbox starter homes hadn't seen a 275% income increase in those years. So I started to educate myself, much as you did. Came to the same conclusions as you, more or less.
I was raised by a CA and knew the Ponzi/pyramid was imploding by
simply watching the USA deficit expand beyond the possibility of paying it back. By 1999 I realized that the CFR wanted inroads into the Gulf
of Oman due to Petro dollar hegemony and reserve currency oligopolistic tendencies. When I realized that 911 was an inside job, I also realized that Wall Street was involved too. And when I realized
that Wall Street was the likely culprit behind the Iraq War I watched
for 'The Committee to Rule The World" and Greenspan's accounting
to Congress immediately following the Iraq War. As soon as Greenspan gave his accounting and guaranteed smooth sailing for
the good ship USA into the future, I realized that only two determinants actually kept the good ship USA afloat and without
those two determinants the good ship USA would sink to the bottom
of the Ponzi Hell. The first determinant was immigration. The second
was that housing prices _never go down_. By March 10th 2008 @ 10:59am I was convinced the motherfucker was going down for the count by 11:00am and the rest is history.
:|
For small fish, Why have an account anywhere in the first place ?
I went without a bank from about 1991 until about 1998. Then I opened accounts at a Credit Union. I did pretty well in those years, just cashing paychecks at the bank where they were written, and buying money orders at the drugstore or post office. I ran across a number of banks that wouldn't cash checks drawn on their own accounts unless you had an account with them, or paid them a percentage of the check as a fee. Recently, I've heard of employers who won't issue a paycheck at all; only direct deposit. Not to mention the incredible scam banks pull with state Welfare agencies. In many states, the state has a contract with a bank to handle benefits distribution. Welfare recipients get their benefits disbursed into an account in their name at the bank, which they can only access through the debit/ATM card the bank gives them. These card accounts are loaded up with fees, and often won't allow access to the funds at any ATM without paying a hefty fee. More backdoor bailouts for the banks, this time on the backs of the poor, using government money.
So for many small fish, some sort of account is necessary, and the only place to get even minimal service at an affordable price is a Credit Union. My Credit Union offers business accounts, free checking, free ATM cards registered at most of the ATM networks in the world, home mortgages, lines of credit, insurance, retirement accounts, Health Savings Accounts; the works. I can't think of any reason I would ever use a traditional bank again. I've withdrawn cash at ATMs in most of the 50 states, Asia and Europe and never paid a fee.
Yes, they should, but will they? Nope too lazy or too fearful of money and personal finance, mostly because they weren't educated about it at a young age that they are the master of money, not money is the master of you.
It is on this crux that CB and their buddies exploit year after year decade after decade century after century.
What happens when you make any financial decision based on fear? You lose money. Where is that money going to? The financial elite and their buddies.
What happens when you make any financial decision based on greed? You lose money. Where is that money going to? The financial elite and their buddies.
What happens when you make any financial decision based on any emotion? You lose money. Where is that money going to? The financial elite and their buddies.
Too little too late. Make sure you house and assets are in order before the next (read -- western & to an extent global) wealth transfer.People don't have 'fiat' in their deposit accounts, they have bank credit, a promise to pay fiat, or, an assumption that fiat will be paid.
And, the bank credit that populates people's deposit accounts is only there for as long as the bank remains solvent.
Just moved 50k into my local credit union today.... goodbye Citibank
Also, have plenty on deposit in the bank of Tempurpedic.
im proud of you son
If the police stop and frisk your parents and find that money, it will be considered drug proceeds! So says Emperor Odumbo
No Debt--
Banks just announced they are no longer banks.
Banks are establishments authorized by government to accept deposits, pay interest, clear checks, make loans and act as an intermediary in financial transactions.
Not much of that stuff going on at "banks" these days.
@Whoa & No Debt,
You are incorrect, banks are the vehicle to create dollars into the economy it has been this way since 1913, "fractional banking" They had adhered to rules of 12/1 ratio, now God only knows what the leverage is.
We are in a global liquidity trap! This is more evidence of that, next up is a currency crisis.
We are headed for Zimbabwe, not Weimer, there will be no money to buy that loaf of bread!
This time there will be no loaf of bread to buy.
There will be bread for those that have resources, you will have to protect it though, got ammo?
There is no spoon (either).
They had adhered to rules of 12/1 ratio -last time was 78/1, but they this is lie, i think about 200/1
You are incorrect, banks do not create 'dollars', they create 'credit' denominated in dollars.
There are only 1.25-Trillion 'dollars' in circulation around the globe, all the rest of the 'liquidity' is bank created credit, a promise or assumption that 'dollars' will be paid. Do the math on that.....
I can't (do the math)... Not enough lead in my pencil for all the requisite zeros
Sorry to read that, sympathy.
In the end there is only one bank. That is called a monopoly.
"A completely closed loop system between themselves, the government and the Feral Reserve."
Actually their scheme can never actually be fully a "closed-loop," as they, the banksters and governmnet, need someone to actually produce the things they steal.
An American, not US subject.
"They're welcome to try to steal my guillotine."
The Holy Keynesian Grail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3KQHPVd74k
It's more like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4O4JQnHAbw
Thank you for making my day. That's the funiest thing I've read in awhile.
I keep reading funny things, but
they don’t make me laugh anymore —
in Soviet America, the bank.......robs You
Hey King, anybody that can get me to laugh this much this early in the morning deserves more than one greenie...
up against the stick motherwall this is a fuck up!
Thats a great idea we should have a national stickup days where every one goes in and tosses 1000 pennys on the floor "This is a national stick up!"
I may refer your post to the NSA - I am now scared to go into a bank. Will I get a reward?
TBTF Banks in KAPITALISM (NOT capitalism) - "Get your filthy currency out of our bank!"
Another proof of hundreds that Full Fractional Reserve Central Banks such as
the Fed, engaging in radical monetary policy and interventionism, have FUBAR'd ALL MARKETS - AS IN BROKEN THEM.
RETAILER MASS EXTINCTION DIE OFF COMING POST CHRISTMAS & "HIGH YIELD" BOND (relative basis) AND EQUITY MASSACRE IN EARLY 2015. HILLARY CUNTON WILL NOT RUN FOR TOTUS IN 2016.
Gresham's Law comes to mind, although I'm sure he didn't anticipate this particular kind of outcome.
"As central banks fight over gold, they will be standing publicly and buck naked telling the world exactly what money is and what it isn’t."
Source: http://blog.milesfranklin.com/the-mother-of-all-bank-runs
And don't forget physical silver. Pre-1965 silver and 1oz silver bullion is still on a fire-sale right now. I'll edit that statement immediately though: the paper spot price is on a fire-sale right now. However, Constitutional silver coins (pre-1965) is now experiencing huge premiums costs over this currently undervalutation of the paper market spot price.
So far, I'd say we're fairly fortunate that the premiums on silver bullion coins, rounds, and bars has luckily remained pretty fair. Even for Silver Eagles, even though the U.S. Mint has had to stop production due to lack of silver supply or they've had to reduce allocation to their dealers and the public. I'm surprised premiums on ASE's hasn't hit close to 50% yet.
Although, if you do some quick searches on Ebay you'll see that premiums on ASE's and other bullion silver is starting to climb higher and higher towards 50% of spot.
Silver is the real money of the common "folks". And the current GSR (gold/silver ratio) is still over 70:1. At these high ratios and with the paper silver spot price now several or more dollars below the average cost of production, silver is the best value in history of the world right now, hands down.
Buy silver now and wait. When silver spikes and the GSR drops under 40:1, 30:1, 30:1, etc...then that's when you look to trade some of your silver for gold. That has worked in the past to increase the ounces in your stack cheaply. Will it work in the future when most likely nobody will be selling and thus might also not be trading? Could happen.
But think of it this way...as silver becomes more rare and destroyed via more and more industrial uses, then hey...we may not even want to trade our silver for gold. If or when that ratio drops closer to 1:1 with gold we may not want to trade for gold. Silver will become more rare and more valuable compared to gold and the ratio could flip negatively for gold and positive for silver. Silver could go 1:2 against gold or maybe 1:5...who knows???? It's becoming more rare every day while nearly all the gold every mined in history is still in existence somewhere.
So always keep silver in mind whenever you see anyone refer to gold. More bang for you buck by far compared to gold right now. But in the not too distant future that is certainly going to change dramatically and you'll be glad you stacked silver very high at the bottom your respective "lake".
Just give me 64 kennedy's and i'll be happy.
I always believed that if a collapse was coming anytime around winter, they would surely stall and confiscate the masses' Xmas money one last time.
Not true!
(2017)
"I finally made it, Bill! I'm President!"
"Yeah, honey, but look around. The gay guy left us with a smoking ruin."
Jim Willie has an interesting view.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiHW4U7Ex64
Dont say things like this, i love hillary and she will be the next president!!
I suppose Bank runs don't matter any longer. The Fed can always print more. And the cash out creates a nice source of funding for The Police under Civil forfeiture?
+1 all this delicious cash should go where it belongs, towards the Great Stock Market /s
meanwhile... LOL. Draghi has NIRP, which hurts... banks. But in the US, where banks still get something for their cash parked at the FED... the Big Boys tell customers they'll get fees on excess cash
is it me or is something amiss in this picture? whatever, blame someone else
Ghordius, your posts seem confused and well less hopeful than in the past..keep reading finance news and EU /usa bureaucrats/bank pronoucement, and you will go insane like most of us here, clasping our silver and gold , no way to make sense out of it..there is no sense in chaos of corruption...free corzine remember Miriam Carey.
don't worry about me, if something, I'm less confused and more hopeful then in the past ;-) sanity? not for me, thanks
I have to give credit where it's due, LawsofPhysics has called this one correctly from the beginning of QE. I'm paraphrasing here, but the mantra he kept repeating was "Selling will become illegal" has basically now come true.
Upside down world.
That's just assinine, what about all those 401K's, what are they if not savings accounts. AH
Look closely at your 401k statement. You will find that your balance is in mutal funds (stocks & bonds) with the "cash" fund usually being a money market fund (not a bank deposit) or some sort of insurance-based "guaranteed account" (part of the insurer's General Fund, also not a bank account).
Chalky: "Now some folks are sayin' the government has taken all their 401's. This is not true. With our new Super Security Plan, you will have an investment in America's Future. All your former funds will re-mature in 10 years! with interest!"
Savings accounts and 401K's are for the banks and the government. You didn't think they were for YOU, did you?
According to Jim Willie, the US just con'd Japan into rolling over one of their huge pension funds into treasuries. What happens when the banking scum runs out of foreign funds to pillage?
Good bye 401k
Please keep in mind that even if the FDIC can guarantee a portion of your currency deposited within a Federally insured bank establishment, the FDIC readily admits they CAN NOT guarantee the value of said currency. In other words, your deposits are not guaranteed any purchasing power due to the many decades of, and still ongoing, currency devaluation by the central banking system.
Not only that, but let's just consider how much money the FDIC has in its insurance fund. What happens when something really bad happens and a dozen mid-sized banks all tank at the same time? How long do you think it's gonna take for that check to come from Uncle Sugar? Yes, your money is 'insured', but you aren't going to get a checkbook with checks drawn on the FDIC when your bank goes under. You'll effectively have lost your money since you won't have the use of it for a potentially significant amount of time.
And soon, Comrade, there will be no cash for us, only EBT cards.
Did you vote for the Kingfish? Here's your card.
You voted for an Old Regular candidate? No EBT for you.
OK gang
Lets just take a step back and have a think.
Is this due to capital flows into the $$ in USA
Are they just trying to put peesps off from Euro and other currecies tanking??
They can of course deposit into US $ and then purchase assetss the FED is promoting.......................
BULLISH!
BOLI...In the know gets you a knife in the chest.
http://wallstreetonparade.com/2014/12/slain-massmutual-executive-held-wall-street-trade-secrets/
Wow....employees more valuable dead than alive.
No deposits > no bankruns!
Well. Expected out of a munday.
http://hedgeaccordingly.com/2014/12/why-russia-dances-to-beijings-tune-o...
In other words.... You're fucked Mr. Depositor.
And yet the vast majority will never view the debt notes they hold as being the bank's money.
pods
@pods
The vast majority of "money" today is held as digital deposits. I am reviewing a payroll debit card program that would replace a bank for the un-banked employees. There are no fees for the employer. If the employee uses one of the 50,000 ATM's in the Allpoint network, any Visa member bank or Wal-Mart, there are absolutely no fees to the employee (the card issuer makes money on the merchant fees charged by all debit and credit cards). I've thought about moving to it myself. Why doesn't someone with resources (i.e. the US Chamber of Commerce, Wal-Mart, etc.) start offering this en masse to everyone?
How about a Debt-Mobile-Program, as well?
this house of card is getting more and more blunt, the end has to be near
Moar like a ponzi bordello built with bull shit that's been eaten out by all the bankster maggots infesting it!
A lovely image, no?
NIRP rhymes with Slurp!
NIRPies rhymes with herpes. I think there's a limirick in there somewhere ...
Tick Tock
Fucking joke...America is done....
Perhaps America is done, but I'm going to add the EU, Japan, the BRICS, the GCC, and Australia to that list as well.
Somalia and North Korea could be a good buy, they are relatively insulated from the coming crisis.
Actually, North Korea and Somalia are already where we're going.
Savings makes no sense in a world of leveraged derivatitves.
I told pops this shit was coming. He thinks we are all nutters-so I am sending him this piece- not that it will get thru that thick skull of his.
Usually it was people's "pops" that warned us about banks and all that, having been through the Great Depression of the 30's. 'A penny saved is a penny earned' and 'an honest day's work for an honest day's pay', and that type of thing. People are going to learn those lessons again soon enough.
Unfortunately, I don't have any family still alive that remembers the 30's but the oldest relatives that are alive think this country is great.(Were #1! USA! USA!) After numerous arguments I'm renaming the "Greatest Generation" to the Hard-Working-But-Still-Quite-Ignorant Generation.
Fortunately in4, I do. I grew up with my grandparents (grandpa now 93) telling me stories. I also got stories from my godparents. Godfather was straight off the boat from Italy (no pun intended). He was 13 when he came through Ellis Island around 1915.
My Godfather ended up with Alzheimers a long time ago. I went to the house for a visit one day. My Godmother was making lunch. After she set the table, she started yelling at my Godfather in Italian. He had taken his napkin, unfolded it, smoothed it out and then carefully refolded it in a specific way. She told me that back in the day, people did that to make their napkin last for a week. The way the napkin was folded, each side was a day. The next day you flipped it over, folded the other way, etc.
Grandpa is full of stories. To sum it up, shit was rough, but life went on. You worked or you were fucked. Grandpa's dad died when grandpa was 15, so he had to work to take care of his mom and sister. No welfare, no EBT, no bullshit. As grandpa puts it, "hunger is a great motivator." Grandpa is very against welfare.
My grandmother's dad had a great job throughout the depression, so they were flush with cash. He would tell my grandmother, or one of the siblings, to get some cash from the drawer (the money was kept in the drawer in the dining room) and buy shoe's for little Billy down the street, or buy bread for Mrs. Smith, etc. Things were hard, but people looked out for each other.
That's the problem with today. People want handouts, they don't look out for each other, people can't keep money in a drawer (or even a safe) without everyone trying to steal it. A lot has changed in 100 years.
The fed keeps printing electronic fiat and the only people that want it are the people who have no access to it. Those closest to the printers are choking on the shit while the rest of the nation starves.
That's pretty much been their plan all along, hasn't it?
So then money will flow to ...gold, silver...overseas currencies/banks...whilst the USD is up...not a bad idea.
I'm watching the progression of banks that used to do business by putting out solid loans to reckless loans, pushed by none other than "the law and regulations" to be riskier, all the while getting it covered via legislation to protect them with the taxpayer backing up the risks. As time goes on, the banks have gone to paying interest on accounts to paying practically nothing, while credit card rates have stayed high, and now charging you for keeping cash in the bank? Not only that, once they have you locked into the debt cycle, they are slowly introducing more fees in case you are not in "enough debt", like minimums for checking accounts and other bank services. Soon, I guess as planned, banks will have used worthless paper as their vehicle to eventually own all real tangible assets on the planet.
This is because they no longer compete against each other. They have formed one giant racket and are all in on it. Legislation needs to be brought forward to increase competition. Of course this would immediately bankrupt all of them but really...whatever.
Whatever, the solution, I'm sure more legislation is not it.
Huey Long would have broken them up.
And we all know what happened to Huey Long...
This is also another step towards banks (and government NSA) getting a stranglehold on ALL currency (financial) transactions.
The banks already charge hefty fees to retailers for credit card, debit card, and cash processing. Think about it. The banks now collect a percentage cut on just about every purchase made. This current NIRP is mostly an increase in the cash processing fees to big businesses (to likely be extended to other businesses and 'customers').
The banks already are encouraging purchase payments to be made with credit by offering "cash back" to purchasers but still charging the retailers (who pass on the cost in higher prices).
If the banks can make using cash more costly than using their digital fractional currency, they will have even more ability to increase their financial (rentier) 'tax ' on every transaction.
The banks and government, of course, would be all too happy to have every transaction (except their own) electronically monitored.
I don't know about all this. The last time I walked in with a six-figure check to deposit, the folks at my local BofA branch treated me like royalty.
thats because banks are borrowers, not lenders
That's because it becomes THEIR money as soon as you deposit it. You become a creditor. Joke's on you.
Try to run a real business without a bank, joker.
Dude, if you haven't read the documents, it really does become the bank's money and you really do become an unsecured creditor. I said nothing about running a business without a bank. I rely on banks every day. That was not my point, however. My point was to clarify your legal position as a depositer.
They are lenders. Banks are borrowers and lenders... And this is a valuable and useful contribution to society. They can move money from those who have it to those who need it.
What makes the current crop of bankers chancers and scum. is that they borrow short and lend long. They create huge inverted pyramids of unstable credit piled on top of unstable credit. The fractional reserve system is the only thing which allows this. They have to be backed up by a money printing authority just to avoid complete meltdown.
Under a full reserve system the banks lending terms will have to match it's borrowing terms and depositors will be unable to get their money back until the terms have expired. But they'll get paid interest for the use of the money. There would be no inverted pyramid because no money is being created, only moved. There would be no inflation, or deflation because banks aren't "growing" credit and debt and paying a loan wouldn't destroy the cash held as 100% reserve. Banks would be stable, there would be no need for a lender of last resort because the system would be stable. The failure of one bank would not endanger the entire global market. Oh and losses would be localised to the people making the investments, not nationalised.
Hey Okie
You didn't per chance earn that six figure paycheck working three hours a week from your home computer did you?
You won't believe it, but yes. Home office, 25 years in the industry, good client base, consulting practice. Client has to turn on their emergency backup generator for exactly three hours to pass a test. For this, utility paid us $130k and we in turn paid the client $102k.
Hah, the last time I deposited a six figure check I...... Oh wait...... i've never had a six figure check......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCtzQRkrj0U
Wait a while, you'll be writing six figure checks for your groceries...
I walked in with a $7,000 check to start a new account about five years ago. They wouldn't take it because my credit rating was a bit too low (5.8 I think). True story.
Buy gold. The hole in your back yard does not charge any fees.
The funny thing about rules is as soon as they become inconvenient to those closest to power they will be changed.
another symptom of a dying debt-based fiat currency....
For a little guy like me, negative rates have been the norm for years (just called something else). I get slapped with a 'service charge' every month ($17) while I earn a whopping interest of $.03 Feels negative to me.
It does really suck. All the hard labor of the entire country, all the work you did all your life, is devalued on a daily basis, whilst all the assets that you worked for are falling under control of the banks and the government. It's a slow motion robbery in progress, and the cops or anyone else are never coming to help.
Buying silver has always been an option
Right, this is just 'moar negativer' for us little guys....the ones they're always saying they're so concerned about and doing their actions like QE for.
I haven't had to pay income taxes on my bank "earnings" since 2008. The pennies I get in interest each month have REALLY helped offset inflation, though. Thank you FED for all of your Herculean efforts. Where would we be without you?
If anyone wonders why stocks went through the moon during Germany's hyperinflation, here is why...
And to think, all I wanted was a normal, modest life.
Soon, we will have the next step of ZIRP - BIP. Bail-in Policy.
Just another sign of the deflationary pressures on the global economy. As commodity, futures, housing, precious metals, and soon stock prices, continue to decline, the default rate on every kind of loan will skyrocket and yields on bonds will rise dramatically. The move by the banks, targeted at their wealthier clients, is intended to scare clients into moving their cash into riskier positions such as bonds and "high quality" securities where the banks have less legal fiduciary responsibility. Banks know what's coming... another huge systemic collapse brought about by their ridiculously leveraged investments with "other people's" money... which the "other people" will never see again.
http://www.globaldeflationnews.com/inflation-vs-deflation-part-1which-on...
http://www.globaldeflationnews.com/anatomy-of-a-bubble-how-the-federal-r...
Three real possibilities here:
1. Banksters know that something bad might (or is going to) happen, like bail-ins, and they are giving their biggest and best customers a chance to get out first. Think Cyprus here...
2. Banks want to steer this money (which is still somewhat regulated and has to be in safer investments) into 'new banking products' that the banks will invent so that the banks can gamble and leverage more.
3. The banks are saying to the customers - why do we want your money, on which we have to pay interest - when we can get all the free Fed money we want?
They're all realistic explanations. No.3 is what I've been thinking for many months to partly explain Zirp and now Nirp. Add to that, banks are not lending much these days, so don't need deposits.
Labour in the modern world is a means to access purchasing power.
The accumulated savings have little to do with actual labour.
What draghi smaghi and the other satanic coherents s mean to do is maintain concentration of wealth using all means at their disposal.
must...FORCE...all...cash...into...USTs...to...keep...the...PONZI...going
Makes sense, when each dollar turns into 50. Sure must make banks nuts to see ANY cash laying around they can't multiply.
Now bailed out TBTF's are feigning shock and dismay at the monster they've created....whatever I hope they all burn to the ground.
Give it another 3 quarters or so ... Martin Armstrong: Big Bang in fall 2015?
It's "always" two or three quarters away. Then, when the deadlines passes and we're still just grinding along, there's a new prognostication.
Quit reading the doomers and PM blogs. They might be right, eventually, but at this point there is no credibility. At least FOFOA has the good sense not to predict timing and his logic is quite compelling.
gold gold gold! and silver!
Gold and Silver: An old idea whose time has come.
Cash and carry bitches.
They can surprise me every time, what a bizarre new normal
The war on cash has escalated.
If you're just going to demand your money back from me, I don't want it.
In all honesty, under full reserve banking, the banks charge you for deposits because they can't loan the money out. It would be consideribly less now because they're not storing your money, but getting you your cash back on demand still costs money.
Balance is important and like so many things in life when it comes to economic policy it is very important to balance the markets reward when it comes to savings and debt. Savings plays an important role in the economy and has been shortchanged, this will come back to haunt us.
The idea of being frugal and living within our means has not been given due credit, living by increasing debt is far too acceptable. When we find it necessary to discuss savings we are back to basics and it is a sign we have strayed far off course in our economic policy. More on the important role savings plays in the article below.
http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2014/09/savings-and-role-it-plays-in-econ...
No worries the deposits are FDIC insured. Just make a claim the funds were stolen
Man was I a fool to take my money out of the banks 20 years ago.
fiat are so worthless - even bank don't need it anymore...you need to pay banks so they can keep it, it's like you pay for garbage collection
Move your money "John Q Public" into PMs.