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Greek Stocks Crash, Default Risk Spikes After PM GREXIT Comments

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Just 2 short months ago we noted S&P's warning that Greece will default again within 15 months and following comments by Prime Minister Samaras that the market's drop is due to fear that Syriza will win an early election and seek a Greek exit from the Euro. Pressuring parliamentarians and the public alike, he stated "the choice is simple," warning that Greek financing needs are only covered through the end of February without further aid from the EU (but we thought they were 'recovered'). Greek stocks have crashed further, Greek default risk has spiked, and 3Y bond yields are now well north of 10% (138bps inverted to 10Y).

 

As Bloomberg reports,

Greek PM Antonis Samaras says country’s financing needs covered until end-Feb, in comments to lawmakers of his party in parliament today.

 

Greece will get next tranche of its bailout loan; if we have elections everything is “up in the air”

 

Markets react to possible Syriza election win, fall because they fear Syriza: Samaras

 

Samaras calls on all Greek lawmakers to assume their responsibility; says choice is simple, president or early elections

 

Dimas is excellent candidate for presidency: Samaras

 

Credit line to shield Greece’s first steps: Samaras

The result:

A further plunge in stocks...

 

and a spike in Greek default risk

 

as GGB price collapse and yields further invert...

 

And about those new 5Y bonds that proved Greece was fixed...

Reuters provides more color...

Greece will hold snap general elections in January if parliament fails to elect a president this month, Prime Minister Antonis Samaras said on Thursday as he called on all lawmakers to avert a national crisis by supporting his candidate for head of state.

 

"We will all be judged in the coming days," Samaras said in a speech to lawmakers from his conservative New Democracy party. "People do not want elections."

 

If the government wins the vote to elect a president, the country will complete a pending bailout review, seek debt relief from European partners and sign a precautionary credit line to support the country after the aid program ends, Samaras said.

 

He said Greece's funding needs were covered until the end of February. Responding to speculation that the government might put forward different nominees in the three presidential vote rounds, Samaras said Stavros Dimas would remain the government candidate in all three rounds.

Charts: bloomberg

 

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Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:15 | 5539834 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Good.  

Burn baby burn.  Wipe out the EMZ and the world financial system while you are at it.  Come on little Greece!!!! 

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:20 | 5539846 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Who could have seen it coming really?

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:23 | 5539852 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Not the VIX.

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:47 | 5539901 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

It might just be me....but I'm starting to think the VIX is not in touch with reality.

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:54 | 5539938 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

Nah, it's just you.  The VIX is as honest as the price of Gold.

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 10:05 | 5539976 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

It's as good as VIX?

 

Fine......how much have you got?

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 10:26 | 5540027 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

As good as?  Who said that? I didn't say that....

Is this some clever tactic to divest me of my Gold?

You're not from the government are you?!

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 12:52 | 5540553 tarabel
tarabel's picture

 

 

There's been a recall on some toxic gold so we need to take yours back to the factory and test it for pathogens, but we'll bring it right back. Until then, here's a receipt for it.

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 10:21 | 5540012 Alberich
Alberich's picture

Earlier this week: Greek Crash Sends Gold Higher
Today: Greek Crash Sends Gold Lower

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:24 | 5539859 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

the PM is not making GREXIT Comments. He is saying: vote for my candidate president, or we have to go to fresh elections, and SYRIZA might win, and then might exit Greece from the EUR

which is dirty politics as usual, painting a big, big devil on the wall. but note, you need more then a majority of Greeks wanting to keep the EUR in order for those tactics to work

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:26 | 5539862 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Right now Syriza bests New Democracy by 6 points -- outside the margin of error.  

A Communist/Syriza coalition would be a possabililty.  

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:39 | 5539895 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

So you would select a "coalition of the radical left", which in the last elections had

SYRIZA (Coalition of the Radical Left): 52 seats; DIMAR (Democratic Left): 19 seats and KKE (Communist Party of Greece): 12 seats - with a current total of 83 seats - with the assumption that in the next elections they make over 150?

I repeat: the Radical Left, the Democratic Left and the Communist? That's your choice, Mr. Designated Prime Minister of Greece?

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:45 | 5539904 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Did you forget that in Greece, the party that receives the largest vote gets an additional 50 seats in the Parliament? 

52 + 50 = 102, but then again, both the KKE and Syriza have larger shares of hte vote right now than they did last time.  Semething about 30% unemployment and whole families living in their cars has something to do with it.   

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:57 | 5539948 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

of course, and yes, the possibility of the radical left to win the next elections is way more plausible then an alliance of them with Golden Dawn, as you were suggesting in the other article

what I find refreshing is that you are cheering for the Radical Left, that's all. I wonder what your agenda would look like, besides the EUR business

your political flexibility... impressive

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:59 | 5539955 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

No - I would have one goal as the Greek PM - 

Either Greece gets its debts forgiven and free money forever and ever and ever amen, or they blow up the entire system.

If the average Greek understoof how much power that little country actually has -- there would be no more pro-EU parties left.  

 

Your support of the project is so -- unwaivering -- it is impressive. 

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 10:03 | 5539973 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

ehm... my support of the "project" does not involve Greece being forcefully bound to it. I support the sovereignty of all members of our alliances. But it's their task to make their decisions

fine, let's assume you make the debt forgiveness thing or at least start talks about them. what do you mean with "free money forever"?

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 10:08 | 5539983 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Due to debt structuring in Europe, if Greece' hundreds of billions of debt are written off -- its the end of the world's banking system through contagion.  You'll have liquidity crunches go around the globe in a matter of hours, and banks going bankrupt faster than you can say "Bob's your uncle." 

In this chaos, you will have many political leaders getting thrown out by their populations, and given how politicians love to hold onto the power that they have -- Greece could make a deal with the world.  They get XXX billions of EUR per year -- for nothing -- or they blow up the system and its chaos for the next decade.  

The Greeks (unlike Draghi) actually have a big bazooka to fire.  It can only be fired once, but I think that it just might work. 

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 10:21 | 5540019 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

haven't you forgotten the guarantees? do you realize that the Greek hundreds of billions of debt are actually... affordable?

hell, by now the ECB balance sheet has shrunk - without the world really noticing - three times that amount. That's Draghi's Bazooka reloading. The guarantees are in the same ballpark

have you forgotten that diplomatically speaking, Greece is still smarting for having lied to it's european partners (with help of the Squid)? You know, about cooking the books

I think you'd have to throw in a military realignment to Russia in that big poker-style bluff

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 10:42 | 5540056 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Affordable?  See, this is the type of Brussels "blearly-eyed nonsense" that drives so many of us up the wall.  

If the Greek debt load is so affordable for Greece -- why are they still trying to get a few billion in EU cash via a bailout?  Seems to me that Greece has no cash, and nothing is affordable there.  Thus, instead of paying interest on their debt (which leaves the country and never comes back due to abysmal credit creation in Greece right now) they could spend it in Greece on the Greek people.  

 EDIT -- Also much of Greek debt outstanding was issued before Greece got into major financial difficulties -- and thus is guaranteed by no one except the Greek government.  Sorry bud. 

lol at "european partners"  This implies the Greece is "Euoprean" first, and second you wanted to say that Goldman Sachs lied to the EMZ on Greece's behalf. 

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 10:53 | 5540127 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

"...that drives so many of us up the wall" which would be what?

I meant affordable to the others. To the lenders. who do you think are, by now, the biggest lenders to Greece?

No. Greece lied to the other EZ partners. Goldman Sachs was involved in helping them cooking the books. And Greece is only member of the clubs as long as Greece wants to

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 10:59 | 5540160 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

So I'll bounce back to my question from yesterday you keep dodging -- 

Back when Popendraous wanted to give the Greeks a referendum, there was a 2 day window from the time he said that till the vote of no confidence.  

In those two days DO YOU THINK that people in Brussels and Frankfurt made phonecalls to pressure MPs to get rid of him?  

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 11:09 | 5540212 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I don't dodge that question, you keep misunderstanding me. Getting voted as MP is a sacred trust, in my eyes. I won't go into personal stories of things I was involved to

but being an elected member of parliament is all about deciding if you want to be a hero or a villain, and voters having later again their say on that

The majority of the Greek Parliament voted against him. And the Greek People had a new election cycle to decide what they thought about that

That's sovereignty, european style, in a Republic with a constitution based on democratic principles. And you seem to have a problem with it, but I still don't understand where

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 11:18 | 5540232 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

You keep explaining to me how the parlimentary system works.  I know how it works.  

Here, I'll try again --- YES or NO. 

In the time frame between when Popandreau said he wanted a referendum on the EMZ and the time when there was the vote of no confidence -- do you believe any MPs in Athens were pressured by someone in Brussels or Frankfurt to get rid of Popandreau, or at the very least -- make sure the Referendum doesn't happen. 

*involved in (sich engagieren (in))

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 11:22 | 5540265 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Haus, I thought I already answered in detail that question, not long ago

of course they were called by many counterparts. SO WHAT? I sincerely don't understand what you are meaning by that. It's their DUTY to do what they were elected to do: to vote in parliament according to their conscience

if you think that on this very small continent there is no diplomacy and no pressure and no political bickering then you have not understood where you are and what we are

MPs get pressured all the time. MPs get KILLED, sometimes. MPs get bribed, MPs get their kids kidnapped, and so on. Some are villains, some are rascals and some are HEROS

and I know some of all three kinds, and I have personally carried the coffin of some of the last kind

what exactly do you want? to put them under a glass dome? not to talk with their diplomatic and party counterparts? Keep them locked in Parliament?

They are not the US Congressmen, which I understand are forbidden to have international relations. That one is crazy for us

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 11:39 | 5540315 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

I think that you are correct.  I agree that being elected to a parliment is a sacred task -- but your stance here requires a couple things to be true; 

1) The MPs believed that a Referendum was not in the best interests of their people, and 
2) The MPs believed the Referendum was not in the best interests of the Greek people because, being a member of the EMZ is better for the people than the Drachma.  

If however, the Greek MPs did not act in the best interests of their constitutients -- then you have to ask -- why?  

Bribery -- perhaps? Maybe.  But then you have to ask -- as (what it sounds like to me you were a former MP yourself) -- what is more important to you.  

If you were given a decision, as an elected MP --

Option 1 is to maintain the sacred trust you described above, and vote in a way that is in the best interests of your constituients.  This path results in Greece leaving the EMZ.

Option 2 is to breach the sacred trust you described above, and vote in a way that is not in the best interests of your constituients, but it keeps Greece in the EMZ. *

Assume for this example, remaining part of the EMZ is not in the best interests of the population.  

 

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 15:47 | 5540549 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

does the Greek electorate think that the EUR is a better option to the Drachma? as far as I know Greece, yes

but for this example's sake, let's assume both Greeks and Greek MP believe that the Drachma would be a better option

so what do we have here? a PM that breaches the trust he got from Parliament, and declares a decision to... be taken by the people. without consulting Parliament

and this... is dangerous. specifically, this is the path many dictators took, in european history

but more important, constitutionally, he was trying to do something that is not in his power to give, but Parliament

call it whatever you want, he got on Parliament's nerves, and he got sacked for that

that alone was a reason to sack him. and then, to keep in our assumption that we have a pro-Drachma Parliament and a pro-Drachma People, Parliament could have called for a referendum

Fri, 12/12/2014 - 06:20 | 5543408 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

I find it quite sad -- someone as intelligent as you are -- uses your intelligence to justify an otherwise corrupt system, instead of using it for how to reform it.  

However, the key to reform is admitting there is a material problem with the status-quo warranting reform, which, apparently you cannot do.  

I would love to see an empassioned speech on the floor of the EU Parliment by a member of the "status quo" (not one of the MPs that have swept in recently) -- disclaiming the corruptness of the current system, how the EU has strayed far from its original intent, and that absent the "status-euo" groups trying to reform it -- the member of the "right wing" will rip the entire thing apart.  

But I have yet to see anything along those lines. Its typically the same drivel

"Is the current system perfect?  No!  But, look -- 75 years no WOAR here in Europe.  Cleraly lets keep this thing going."

If it was to be changed to

"Is the current system perfecT?  No!  But, look -- 75 years no WOAR here in Europe.  However, the corruption, indealing, manipulation, and outright fraud of various groups within the EU will most certainly bring about its end and result in another war here -- if -- we cannot MEANINGFULLY reform the system, and reform it now.  Not next year.  Not after the Greeks have their next elections -- but now.  Today.  The EU needs a Perestroika moment.  We can deliver it.  Because, if we fail to adapt to our changing surroundings -- the EU will most certainly go the way of the USSR."

Something along those lines.  Perhaps you know of a speech I have missed.  

Fri, 12/12/2014 - 13:00 | 5544749 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I have heard a few speeches that you might have missed, yes

I disagree. in my eyes you are treating the EU as if it was the American Federation, and this is not what I want, and not what it is

it's the Peoples first, and the Sovereign Nations that are the members of this club second that are close to my heart and in my mind

EU, NATO, EuroSystem, those are only alliances. important alliances, but nevertheless... not as important as the first two

they are just... projects. They can be discarded

So I don't even want to hear an impassioned speech on the floor of the EU Parliament

That one has to stay a lesser parliament, with it's focus on what it was given to do by the National Parliaments

That's where I want to hear impassioned speeches. That's were I want to see corruption eradicaded. The rest... follows

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 10:51 | 5540126 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Also -- my political flexibility is pretty consistent.  

I am 100% for any political party, or collection of political parties, in any of the 18 member states that will bring about the end of the EUR and/or (but preferably and) the EU.  

I could care less if they are right/left or space aliens.  As long as they bring about the end of this project -- I am a supporter of theirs.  

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 11:01 | 5540157 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

so a single-issue proponent without any other political agenda item. which is fairly typical in the US, and way less in Europe. And so perhaps you don't like our "crazy system" because it does not work the way you are accustomed to

let me guess, in the US, your single-issue would be debt forgiveness for student debt. correct? this ties in with my guess that you still have US student debt outstanding (not that I don't find the whole student debt issue a disgusting thing to settle a whole generation or two with, banks and politicians be doubly damned for that)

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 11:03 | 5540179 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

No -- if in the US I was a single issue voter, it would be a Constitutional amendment that the American Federal government would not be allowed to run a budget deficit, or guarantee the loans of others, except in a time of declared war against another sovereign state.  

If we dug up Joe Stalin and he ran in the US with that issue alone -- I'd vote for him.

But I am not a single issue voter in the US, because the US doesn't have some vampire overlord political structure no one voted for ruling over them day and night regulating things such as cuecumber lengths and whether or not olive oil is allowed on restaurant tables.

But you're quite excellent generalizing 300 million people.  Keep up the good work you open minded "its a small world after all" idealist.  

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 11:14 | 5540233 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

generalizing? I was just posing a question

funny that. balanced budgets? that's my camp, here in europe. but we don't want an european constitution, so we use... the EUR

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 11:18 | 5540247 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Balanced budgets are something that Euroland has no clue about.  Save for Germany -- next year. Thanks Mr. Schäuble.

(Lichtenstein too -- lets not forget them.) 

lol and Europe has used the EUR to keep balanced budgets?  How has that worked for you?  

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 11:24 | 5540270 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

we are working on that. make a few graph, calculate a bit, hear the shrill cries of the "big spender" camp, and you might realized that. it's a goal, and we are progressing

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 11:31 | 5540287 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

But this is the problem.  

Spending exceeds revenues.  Shoot, in France they haven't had a balances budget since 74.  Do you really think that they will change?  

The EUR is on a limited timeline, take, France for example.  They aren't growing.  They are running up debt at about 4% of GDP per annum.  It cannot go on forever without the French printing or someone taking on the French secondary bond market.  The EUR has 18 seperate potential weak points to worry about -- some weaker than others.  However, a EUR federalization is incompatable with many constitutions on the continent.

There will come a time when (I am of the belief that this time has already passed) when people in Brussels will need to decide what do they like more, the EU or the EMZ.  

If you want to keep the former, the latter has to be destroyed at a minimum or, I would much prefer it get split in half.  If the EU would slow down with its rush to Reich-dom it could actually pull it off.  The problem is whoever is at the controls has the pedal to the floor, and will blow the whole thing up attempting this. 

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 13:02 | 5540588 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

balanced budgets are not easy. they never were. it takes time, and then more time

growth? that is a horse on which Keynesians ride, often. if your GDP shrinks, you shrink your budget. people have to do that, why not governments? If you want to have funds for bad times, perhaps you should put something on the side during good times?

meanwhile I don't know what "EUR federalization" means, or what you mean with incompatible with constitutions

it's not "people in Brussels" that would have to decide. it's a sovereign decision. I also don't understand this "the EU or the EMZ". Ok, yes, many socialists accuse our balanced budgets EUR camp to steal political will and resources, but so what?

fact is that small and medium currencies are all either hiding or devaluing. The Rouble lost 40%. Even the Yuan is... stressed. You read the same ZH articles as I do. It's not an environment for a lesser currency, this currency war. Size is safety, when the mighty tides of the Dollar work their power

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:43 | 5539903 gatorengineer
gatorengineer's picture

He is trying to soften up the Germans to relax the ""Austerity"" that Greeces is under.  so what he is saying is "Frau Merkel, reduce the austerity you Huns are imposing, and give us more money or Syriza might win, and then the Bundesbank will be really fucked, we wont be back again for for at least 18 months, I promise"

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 11:00 | 5540171 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 11:41 | 5540322 MarketAnarchist
MarketAnarchist's picture

It would be appropos if Western civilization started because of Greece, and ended because of Greece...

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:18 | 5539840 Max Damage
Max Damage's picture

The "market" may fear, but the people HATE the theiving fuckin bastards that own the market and the governments

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:45 | 5539905 gatorengineer
gatorengineer's picture

I think there is also a large distaste for the Free Shit Armies (whether they be black or Greek) of the world as well.

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 15:35 | 5541144 edotabin
edotabin's picture

Yes, because the free shit armies all complain about why they are in that position, yet are sure to collect as much shit as possible while doing nothing to improve. It is all driven by laziness and a growing underlying sense of entitlement/laziness. The more they get, the more they rely on it and the more they want. I think it is that disingenuous attitude that people are against. Most are not against temporary help while the recipient is trying to get back on their feet.

Meanwhile .gov loves free shit armies because thye know they have them in their pockets with a few simple lies and since everyone is too busy taking advantage of the situation nobody acknowledges the downward spiral the free shti army brings...... until there is a great big sucking sound and it is all flushed down the toilet.

The free shit armies exist because people are liars and seek to create excuses for their shortcomings.

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:18 | 5539841 unrulian
unrulian's picture

Many houses have burned down from little Greece fires

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:18 | 5539844 SmokinMonkey
SmokinMonkey's picture

Everything is blowing up around the world.  Even Walmart China has to close 40 stores.  

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:20 | 5539849 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

You're just kidding right?

 

I'd ask for a link....but I'm not sure I want to see it.

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:45 | 5539907 silverer
silverer's picture

I'm afraid I found some links:
Walmart store closings:
http://investorplace.com/2013/10/walmart-close-25-china-stores/
Walmart store closings, US due to food stamp cutbacks (I hadn't heard until now about food stamp cutbacks. Oops to the voters on that one expecting more and more).
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/31/us-walmart-outlook-idUSBREA0U0...

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:22 | 5539851 Ancientkarma
Ancientkarma's picture

Murder will take the place of democracy,suicides? Car crashes?long term sickness? Alcoholic poisenings?among the syrzia party's members.BE CAREFUL .remember HAYDER/AUSTRIA.

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:22 | 5539853 SmokinMonkey
SmokinMonkey's picture

Here is the link to Walmart China closing stores thanks to "Fraud" which gave the impression sales and profits were good 

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-10/wal-mart-report-found-profit-bo...

 

Hypothetically, say a store had $20,000 of wine at the start of a month, and was left with $10,000 worth at month’s end. Its cost of goods sold would be $10,000. If sales were $15,000, gross profits would be $5,000. But if ending inventory is marked up 20 percent, the cost of goods sold drops and wine profit rises to $7,000.

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:30 | 5539871 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

wow, its like the whole world ponzi runs from a top bull shit artist

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:44 | 5539902 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

The U.S. Department of Justice and the Securities and Exchange Commission have been investigating Wal-Mart for possible violations of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, the company has disclosed...

RAFF OUT ROUD

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:24 | 5539855 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

That which canot be sustained, won't be, regardless of party or religious affiliation...

same as it ever was....

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:30 | 5539870 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Funny you should bring up religion.....cause that's exactly what this is.

 

Why do you think the republicans and democrats are moving in lockstep?

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:32 | 5539878 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

I did appreciate Elizabeth Warren's rant, we'll see what happens.

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:47 | 5539890 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Maybe the fake indian can save us from the fake black guy.

 

It's not a lot of hope.....but it's all I've got right now.

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 10:00 | 5539967 earnyermoney
earnyermoney's picture

Barry ranted about a lot of things while he sat on his arse in the Senate. How'd that work out? He's actually endorsing the faux native american over Hitlery.

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:24 | 5539856 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

The Euro-zone is in a far bigger mess than recent headlines and figures suggest. Most of the growth in the Euro-zone over recent years has been in Germany and that bright spot is now under pressure. Italy has been in recession for two years; France’s economy has been stagnant for months. Now that Germany is slowing many economist think the chances of a Japan-style deflationary spiral have risen sharply.

Blame is being cast upon German policymakers that remain pigheadedly opposed to the stimulus the euro area wants, but what they need is serious reforms. Debt does matter! Bottom-line and what it all boils down to is Germany can’t keep buying Greek bonds with German taxpayer money until the end of time.

 http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2014/10/global-economic-malaise-due-to-debt.html

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:33 | 5539883 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

But, but but but .. 

European Unity!  Besides, the Germans lost the war, which means they have to pay for everyone forever.  Right .... right!?!?!?!

Crickets.  

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:43 | 5539900 Arius
Arius's picture

you are way beyond what is going on ... you are with the mentality of the 90s ... what Germany are you talking about?  you think you guys are so smart and so hard working you did all by yourself??? you fell for that line Greeks are lazy and germans hard working and all that BS .... stupid ... complete stupid 

 

you have been around here for so long ,.... que passa amigo???  just dont get it ... or arent you listening?  it seems you just jump to write what is in your little mind instead of paying attention to what everyone else has to say ... stupidity makes me mad

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:53 | 5539933 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

No -- but I know that whenever you press someone on why the EMZ is still around -- and you point out who financially it is nonsensical -- these people back themselves into a corner quite quickly of some form of the "Euroean Unity, we all are one people" kind of argument.  

My comment about Germany paying for everything, because, WWII -- is actually quite on point.  Ask any German -- all German foreign policy is based on the premise "Oh shit, sorry about that 75 years ago."

Very little in German foreign policy is Germany looking out for Germany, but Germany trying to buy friends.  

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:53 | 5539934 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Hello Mr. Panos...I love your videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvl9N9GdraQ

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 10:39 | 5540077 Arius
Arius's picture

germany is nothing my friend ...you really think someone is going to rebuild you (after destroying you completely) and let you run the show ... it is all BS ... the way this shit show is run

 

 

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 10:48 | 5540111 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

I agree that it is all BS the way this shitshow is run.  But I would caution you in the "Germany is Nothing" approach to thing.  

I guarantee you the Germany is a bigger deal than whatever Spanish speaking country it is that you come from.  Shoot -- its a bigger deal than all the Spanish speaking countries put together.   

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 11:01 | 5540178 Arius
Arius's picture

what Spain ?  spain is gone since 15th century amigo ... you seem to be from the east ... to slow to get arent you?  the thing will collapse and you still will not have any idea why ... talk about stupidity ... real stupidity

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 11:04 | 5540191 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

This thing will collapse and I have a great idea why.  I am also hedged against it.  I actually want the system to collapse -- I'll make a fortune. 

Making assumptions about someone you have no idea who they are -- talk about stupidity -- real stupidity. (Periods, how do they work?)  

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 11:28 | 5540283 Arius
Arius's picture

i dont need to know you, i can see what you write ... cautioning me not to underestimate germany ... are you for real?

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 11:35 | 5540300 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

ok let me start adding...

Spain,
peru, ecuador, Bolivia, columbia, venezuela, Paraguay, Uruguay, Argentina,
Chile, Mexico, Honduras, Panama, costa rica, el salvador, Dominican Republic, guatemala, puerto rico, did i forget any?

Do they speak
spanish in the Philipines.? no! but almost...

lol i forgot cuba !

37 million hispanics in The USA

420 million spanish speakers world wide.

So fuck that DAS CAR bs. I agree with you on ditching the Euro as fast a possible..

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:52 | 5539929 WTFUD
WTFUD's picture

H-T, as long as there are USSA airbases on German soil this will be true, Ja?

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:53 | 5539937 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Yeup.  I think as long as Berlin keeps bending the knee to Washington -- it will be so.  

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:32 | 5539886 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

"The Euro-zone is in a far bigger mess than recent headlines and figures suggest."

Works for a lot of things these days.

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 10:15 | 5539965 highly debtful
highly debtful's picture

At this point, if I were the EU, I'd hire a Comical Ali as a spokesperson to "inform" the public and try to calm things down a bit. How about Jen Psaki or Nicolas Maduro - they might be interested in a new job opportunity. I fear Draghi's jawboning might have lost some of its magic in the face of Teutonic reservations.

Of course, the first rule would be to have this new collaborator talk in front of a camera in a confined space (a television studio might actually do the trick), certainly NOT somewhere in a street in Brussels, Berlin or Athens. That might give cause for some embarassment.

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:24 | 5539857 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Better to print Euros on a national basis.

This will then subsequently bring down the euro.

But if they go national first .......then they will be forced to export even more wealth to the euro vampires.

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:25 | 5539860 SmokinMonkey
SmokinMonkey's picture

In some cases, a store would register a sale to a supplier of the same goods the vendor had previously sold to Wal-Mart -- but the goods didn’t go anywhere, according to Lin. Recording the transaction would automatically trigger Wal-Mart’s ordering system to place a new order for the same goods, he said.

“It’s all engineered on paper,” Lin said. “The items never actually leave the shelves.”

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:26 | 5539861 WTFUD
WTFUD's picture

ScamarAss

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:31 | 5539874 no more banksters
Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:32 | 5539875 escapeefromOZ
escapeefromOZ's picture

There is a saying in the banking business . If you owe 1000 dollars to the bank it's your problem but if you owe them a few billions it's the bank's problem . 

Siryza should be able to blackmail without remorse la EU and agree to pay only a minute fraction of the debt but only in 10 or 20 years . Take it or leave it !

Staying in the Euro is too costly to the Greek Nation . What the permanence in the Euro zone will cost Greece  is a continuing recession of at least 20 years . Greece doesn't need a continuing recession . It is time  to end the farce . 

 

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:47 | 5539916 Usurious
Usurious's picture

time for greece to print debt-free currency............

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:35 | 5539889 paperlessforms
paperlessforms's picture

come on Greece - exit the Euro and help us out of this nightmare!

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:40 | 5539894 Which is worse ...
Which is worse - bankers or terrorists's picture

I was fantasizing about trading the USDGRD last night.

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:59 | 5539957 GoldSilverBitcoinBug
Thu, 12/11/2014 - 10:22 | 5540020 Which is worse ...
Which is worse - bankers or terrorists's picture

Opposing OCO orders when it breaks out of range to either side. 

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:43 | 5539899 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Greek news always deserves cranking up the Wayback Machine...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GRuzaMwvrA

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:47 | 5539918 youngman
youngman's picture

Now thats a moldy oldie

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:46 | 5539908 youngman
youngman's picture

If you work for the Government shure you want to stay with the Euro...they give you money that pays your salary....and there is even extra you can steal....or just send to your account in Swizerland.......to start over takes work....a lot of work....and you will lose your pension and benefits...

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 09:48 | 5539920 GoldSilverBitcoinBug
GoldSilverBitcoinBug's picture

Euro breaking in 3...2...1... --> Bullish Gold/Silver/Bitcoin.

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 10:04 | 5539975 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Here we go again. Bring back the comedian that knows how to get the money from the Germans

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 10:41 | 5540087 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

Send in the Hof.

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 10:53 | 5540130 The Futures Ble...
The Futures Bleak The Futures BLACK's picture

I don't get why they just dont fly into the country and drop huge bombs of money. I don't see any difference in doing this as opposed to giving money to the banks that are bankrupt and require finance. Oh wait it's probably so the banks can have a jumble sale on any greek assets that they have yet to control, silly me ;-)

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 12:47 | 5540535 Ted Baker
Ted Baker's picture

why they dont scrap the EU idea once and for all and let the greeks go back to their ancient times and do fishing - there was a reason why the greek empire dissappear maybe this is a return of the same.

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 12:55 | 5540558 Ted Baker
Ted Baker's picture

THE PARASITES ARE STILL AROUND...INCREDIBLE

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 12:55 | 5540563 Jano
Jano's picture

What else could I expect: one of the most corrupt figures is the best candidate for president (like the Soeroto/Obama):

 

...Dimas is excellent candidate for presidency: Samaras...

Thu, 12/11/2014 - 14:31 | 5540881 Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

So what relative of the current guy in charge is going to be the next person in charge?

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