The Media Is Focusing On the WRONG Senate Torture Report

George Washington's picture

The Big Story Torture Everyone Is Missing

While the torture report released by the Senate Intelligence Committee is very important, it doesn’t address the big scoop regarding torture.

Instead, it is the Senate Armed Services Committee’s report that dropped the big bombshell regarding the U.S.  torture program.

Senator Levin, commenting on a Armed Services Committee’s report on torture in 2009, explained:

The techniques are based on tactics used by Chinese Communists against American soldiers during the Korean War for the purpose of eliciting FALSE confessions for propaganda purposes. Techniques used in SERE training include stripping trainees of their clothing, placing them in stress positions, putting hoods over their heads, subjecting them to face and body slaps, depriving them of sleep, throwing them up against a wall, confining them in a small box, treating them like animals, subjecting them to loud music and flashing lights, and exposing them to extreme temperatures [and] waterboarding.

McClatchy filled in important details:

Former senior U.S. intelligence official familiar with the interrogation issue said that Cheney and former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld demanded that the interrogators find evidence of al Qaida-Iraq collaboration

 

For most of 2002 and into 2003, Cheney and Rumsfeld, especially, were also demanding proof of the links between al Qaida and Iraq that (former Iraqi exile leader Ahmed) Chalabi and others had told them were there.”

 

It was during this period that CIA interrogators waterboarded two alleged top al Qaida detainees repeatedly — Abu Zubaydah at least 83 times in August 2002 and Khalid Sheik Muhammed 183 times in March 2003 — according to a newly released Justice Department document…

 

When people kept coming up empty, they were told by Cheney’s and Rumsfeld’s people to push harder,” he continued.”  Cheney’s and Rumsfeld’s people were told repeatedly, by CIA . . . and by others, that there wasn’t any reliable intelligence that pointed to operational ties between bin Laden and Saddam . . .

 

A former U.S. Army psychiatrist, Maj. Charles Burney, told Army investigators in 2006 that interrogators at the Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, detention facility were under “pressure” to produce evidence of ties between al Qaida and Iraq.

 

“While we were there a large part of the time we were focused on trying to establish a link between al Qaida and Iraq and we were not successful in establishing a link between al Qaida and Iraq,” Burney told staff of the Army Inspector General. “The more frustrated people got in not being able to establish that link . . . there was more and more pressure to resort to measures that might produce more immediate results.”

 

“I think it’s obvious that the administration was scrambling then to try to find a connection, a link (between al Qaida and Iraq),” [Senator] Levin said in a conference call with reporters. “They made out links where they didn’t exist.”

 

Levin recalled Cheney’s assertions that a senior Iraqi intelligence officer had met Mohammad Atta, the leader of the 9/11 hijackers, in the Czech Republic capital of Prague just months before the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

 

The FBI and CIA found that no such meeting occurred.

The Washington Post reported the same year:

Despite what you’ve seen on TV, torture is really only good at one thing: eliciting false confessions. Indeed, Bush-era torture techniques, we now know, were cold-bloodedly modeled after methods used by Chinese Communists to extract confessions from captured U.S. servicemen that they could then use for propaganda during the Korean War.

 

So as shocking as the latest revelation in a new Senate Armed Services Committee report may be, it actually makes sense — in a nauseating way. The White House started pushing the use of torture not when faced with a “ticking time bomb” scenario from terrorists, but when officials in 2002 were desperately casting about for ways to tie Iraq to the 9/11 attacks — in order to strengthen their public case for invading a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 at all.

 

***

 

Gordon Trowbridge writes for the Detroit News: “Senior Bush administration officials pushed for the use of abusive interrogations of terrorism detainees in part to seek evidence to justify the invasion of Iraq, according to newly declassified information discovered in a congressional probe.

Colin Powell's former chief of staff (Colonel Larry Wilkerson) wrote in 2009 that the Bush administration's "principal priority for intelligence was not aimed at pre-empting another terrorist attack on the U.S. but discovering a smoking gun linking Iraq and al-Qaeda."

Indeed, one of the two senior instructors from the Air Force team which taught U.S. servicemen how to resist torture by foreign governments when used to extract false confessions has blown the whistle on the true purpose behind the U.S. torture program.

As Truthout reported:

[Torture architect] Jessen’s notes were provided to Truthout by retired Air Force Capt. Michael Kearns, a “master” SERE instructor and decorated veteran who has previously held high-ranking positions within the Air Force Headquarters Staff and Department of Defense (DoD).

 

***

 

The Jessen notes clearly state the totality of what was being reverse-engineered – not just ‘enhanced interrogation techniques,’ but an entire program of exploitation of prisoners using torture as a central pillar,” he said. “What I think is important to note, as an ex-SERE Resistance to Interrogation instructor, is the focus of Jessen’s instruction. It is EXPLOITATION, not specifically interrogation. And this is not a picayune issue, because if one were to ‘reverse-engineer’ a course on resistance to exploitation then what one would get is a plan to exploit prisoners, not interrogate them. The CIA/DoD torture program appears to have the same goals as the terrorist organizations or enemy governments for which SV-91 and other SERE courses were created to defend against: the full exploitation of the prisoner in his intelligence, propaganda, or other needs held by the detaining power, such as the recruitment of informers and double agents. Those aspects of the US detainee program have not generally been discussed as part of the torture story in the American press.”

In a subsequent report, Truthout notes:

Air Force Col. Steven Kleinman, a career military intelligence officer recognized as one of the DOD’s most effective interrogators as well a former SERE instructor and director of intelligence for JPRA’s teaching academy, said ….  “This is the guidebook to getting false confessions, a system drawn specifically from the communist interrogation model that was used to generate propaganda rather than intelligence”  …. “If your goal is to obtain useful and reliable information this is not the source book you should be using.”

Interrogators also forced detainees to take drugs … which further impaired their ability to tell the truth.

And one of the two main architects of the torture program admitted this week on camera:

You can get people to say anything to stop harsh interrogations if you apply them in a way that does that.

And false confessions were, in fact, extracted.

For example:

And the 9/11 Commission Report was largely based on a third-hand account of what tortured detainees said, with two of the three parties in the communication being government employees. And the government went to great lengths to obstruct justice and hide unflattering facts from the Commission.

According to NBC News:

  • Much of the 9/11 Commission Report was based upon the testimony of people who were tortured
  • At least four of the people whose interrogation figured in the 9/11 Commission Report have claimed that they told interrogators information as a way to stop being “tortured.”
  • The 9/11 Commission itself doubted the accuracy of the torture confessions, and yet kept their doubts to themselves

Details here.

Today, Raymond McGovern – a 27-year CIA veteran, who chaired National Intelligence Estimates and personally delivered intelligence briefings to Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, their Vice Presidents, Secretaries of State, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and many other senior government officials –  provides details about one torture victim (Al-Libi) at former Newsweek and AP reporter Robert Parry's website:

But if it’s bad intelligence you’re after, torture works like a charm. If, for example, you wish to “prove,” post 9/11, that “evil dictator” Saddam Hussein was in league with al-Qaeda and might arm the terrorists with WMD, bring on the torturers.

 

It is a highly cynical and extremely sad story, but many Bush administration policymakers wanted to invade Iraq before 9/11 and thus were determined to connect Saddam Hussein to those attacks. The PR push began in September 2002 – or as Bush’s chief of staff Andrew Card put it, “From a marketing point of view, you don’t introduce new products in August.”

 

By March 2003 – after months of relentless “marketing” – almost 70 percent of Americans had been persuaded that Saddam Hussein was involved in some way with the attacks of 9/11.

 

The case of Ibn al-Sheikh al-Libi, a low-level al-Qaeda operative, is illustrative of how this process worked. Born in Libya in 1963, al-Libi ran an al-Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan from 1995 to 2000. He was detained in Pakistan on Nov. 11, 2001, and then sent to a U.S. detention facility in Kandahar, Afghanistan. He was deemed a prize catch, since it was thought he would know of any Iraqi training of al-Qaeda.

 

The CIA successfully fought off the FBI for first rights to interrogate al-Libi. FBI’s Dan Coleman, who “lost” al-Libi to the CIA (at whose orders, I wonder?), said, “Administration officials were always pushing us to come up with links” between Iraq and al-Qaeda.

 

CIA interrogators elicited some “cooperation” from al-Libi through a combination of rough treatment and threats that he would be turned over to Egyptian intelligence with even greater experience in the torture business.

 

By June 2002, al-Libi had told the CIA that Iraq had “provided” unspecified chemical and biological weapons training for two al-Qaeda operatives, an allegation that soon found its way into other U.S. intelligence reports. Al-Libi’s treatment improved as he expanded on his tales about collaboration between al-Qaeda and Iraq, adding that three al-Qaeda operatives had gone to Iraq “to learn about nuclear weapons.”

 

Al-Libi’s claim was well received at the White House even though the Defense Intelligence Agency was suspicious.

 

“He lacks specific details” about the supposed training, the DIA observed. “It is possible he does not know any further details; it is more likely this individual is intentionally misleading the debriefers. Ibn al-Shaykh has been undergoing debriefs for several weeks and may be describing scenarios to the debriefers that he knows will retain their interest.”

 

Meanwhile, at the Guantanamo Bay prison in Cuba, Maj. Paul Burney, a psychiatrist sent there in summer 2002, told the Senate, “A large part of the time we were focused on trying to establish a link between al-Qaeda and Iraq and we were not successful. The more frustrated people got in not being able to establish that link … there was more and more pressure to resort to measures that might produce more immediate results.”

 

***

 

President Bush relied on al-Libi’s false Iraq allegation for a major speech in Cincinnati on Oct. 7, 2002, just a few days before Congress voted on the Iraq War resolution. Bush declared, “We’ve learned that Iraq has trained al-Qaeda members in bomb making and poisons and deadly gases.”

 

And Colin Powell relied on it for his famous speech to the United Nations on Feb. 5, 2003, declaring: “I can trace the story of a senior terrorist operative telling how Iraq provided training in these [chemical and biological] weapons to al-Qaeda. Fortunately, this operative is now detained, and he has told his story.”

 

Al-Libi’s “evidence” helped Powell as he sought support for what he ended up calling a “sinister nexus” between Iraq and al-Qaeda, in the general effort to justify invading Iraq.

 

For a while, al-Libi was practically the poster boy for the success of the Cheney/Bush torture regime; that is, until he publicly recanted and explained that he only told his interrogators what he thought would stop the torture.

 

You see, despite his cooperation, al-Libi was still shipped to Egypt where he underwent more abuse, according to a declassified CIA cable from early 2004 when al-Libi recanted his earlier statements. The cable reported that al-Libi said Egyptian interrogators wanted information about al-Qaeda’s connections with Iraq, a subject “about which [al-Libi] said he knew nothing and had difficulty even coming up with a story.”

 

According to the CIA cable, al-Libi said his interrogators did not like his responses and “placed him in a small box” for about 17 hours. After he was let out of the box, al-Libi was given a last chance to “tell the truth.” When his answers still did not satisfy, al-Libi says he “was knocked over with an arm thrust across his chest and fell on his back” and then was “punched for 15 minutes.”

 

After Al-Libi recanted, the CIA recalled all intelligence reports based on his statements, a fact recorded in a footnote to the report issued by the 9/11 Commission. By then, however, the Bush administration had gotten its way regarding the invasion of Iraq and the disastrous U.S. occupation was well underway.

 

***

 

Intensive investigations into these allegations – after the U.S. military had conquered Iraq – failed to turn up any credible evidence to corroborate these allegations. What we do know is that Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden were bitter enemies, with al-Qaeda considering the secular Hussein an apostate to Islam.

 

Al-Libi, who ended up in prison in Libya, reportedly committed suicide shortly after he was discovered there by a human rights organization. Thus, the world never got to hear his own account of the torture that he experienced and the story that he presented and then recanted.

 

Hafed al-Ghwell, a Libyan-American and a prominent critic of Muammar Gaddafi’s regime at the time of al-Libi’s death, explained to Newsweek, “This idea of committing suicide in your prison cell is an old story in Libya.”

Paul Krugman [whatever you think of his economics, he got this one right] eloquently summarized the truth about the torture used:

Let’s say this slowly: the Bush administration wanted to use 9/11 as a pretext to invade Iraq, even though Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. So it tortured people to make them confess to the nonexistent link.

There’s a word for this: it’s evil.

Torture Program Was Part of a Con Job

As discussed above, in order to “justify” the Iraq war, top Bush administration officials pushed and insisted that interrogators use special torture methods aimed at extracting false confessions to attempt to create a false linkage between between Al Qaida and Iraq. And see this and this.

But this effort started earlier …

5 hours after the 9/11 attacks, Donald Rumsfeld said “my interest is to hit Saddam”.

He also said “Go massive . . . Sweep it all up. Things related and not.”

And at 2:40 p.m. on September 11th, in a memorandum of discussions between top administration officials, several lines below the statement “judge whether good enough [to] hit S.H. [that is, Saddam Hussein] at same time”, is the statement “Hard to get a good case.” In other words, top officials knew that there wasn’t a good case that Hussein was behind 9/11, but they wanted to use the 9/11 attacks as an excuse to justify war with Iraq anyway.

Moreover, “Ten days after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, President Bush was told in a highly classified briefing that the U.S. intelligence community had no evidence linking the Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein to the [9/11] attacks and that there was scant credible evidence that Iraq had any significant collaborative ties with Al Qaeda”.

And a Defense Intelligence Terrorism Summary issued in February 2002 by the United States Defense Intelligence Agency cast significant doubt on the possibility of a Saddam Hussein-al-Qaeda conspiracy.

And yet Bush, Cheney and other top administration officials claimed repeatedly for years that Saddam was behind 9/11. See this analysis. Indeed, Bush administration officials apparently swore in a lawsuit that Saddam was behind 9/11.

Moreover, President Bush’s March 18, 2003 letter to Congress authorizing the use of force against Iraq, includes the following paragraph:

(2) acting pursuant to the Constitution and Public Law 107-243 is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.

Therefore, the Bush administration expressly justified the Iraq war to Congress by representing that Iraq planned, authorized, committed, or aided the 9/11 attacks.

Indeed, Pulitzer prize-winning journalist Ron Suskind reports that the White House ordered the CIA to forge and backdate a document falsely linking Iraq with Muslim terrorists and 9/11 … and that the CIA complied with those instructions and in fact created the forgery, which was then used to justify war against Iraq. And see this.

Suskind also revealed that “Bush administration had information from a top Iraqi intelligence official ‘that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq – intelligence they received in plenty of time to stop an invasion.’ ”

Cheney made the false linkage between Iraq and 9/11 on many occasions.

For example, according to Raw Story, Cheney was still alleging a connection between Iraq and the alleged lead 9/11 hijacker in September 2003 – a year after it had been widely debunked. When NBC’s Tim Russert asked him about a poll showing that 69% of Americans believed Saddam Hussein had been involved in 9/11, Cheney replied:

It’s not surprising that people make that connection.

And even after the 9/11 Commission debunked any connection, Cheney said that the evidence is “overwhelming” that al Qaeda had a relationship with Saddam Hussein’s regime , that Cheney “probably” had information unavailable to the Commission, and that the media was not ‘doing their homework’ in reporting such ties.

Again, the Bush administration expressly justified the Iraq war by representing that Iraq planned, authorized, committed, or aided the 9/11 attacks. See this, this, this.

Even then-CIA director George Tenet said that the White House wanted to invade Iraq long before 9/11, and inserted “crap” in its justifications for invading Iraq.

Former Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill – who sat on the National Security Council – also says that Bush planned the Iraq war before 9/11.

Top British officials say that the U.S. discussed Iraq regime change even before Bush took office.

And in 2000, Cheney said a Bush administration might “have to take military action to forcibly remove Saddam from power.” And see this.

The administration’s false claims about Saddam and 9/11 helped convince a large portion of the American public to support the invasion of Iraq. While the focus now may be on false WMD claims, it is important to remember that, at the time, the alleged link between Iraq and 9/11 was at least as important in many people’s mind as a reason to invade Iraq.

So the torture program was really all about “justifying” the ultimate war crime:  launching an unnecessary war of aggression based upon false pretenses.

Postscript:   It is beyond any real dispute that torture does not work to produce any useful, truthful intelligence.  Today, the following question made it to the front page of Reddit:

Why would the CIA torture if torture “doesn’t work”? Wouldn’t they want the most effective tool to gather intelligence?

The Senate Armed Services Committee report gave the answer.

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blindman's picture

here a tip, when someone justifies anything,
claiming cause 9/11 , know they are criminals,
idiots or both.
problem is that includes most everyone in journalism,
government and on the street, or in your family, today.
it gets lonely out there/here friends. i post these things to let you
know you are correct but are being punished for the
trouble of researching and thinking to arrive at your correct conclusions
because, not 9/11, but because you live in an occupied
and conquered colony formerly known as the united states of america;
or your mind, the people's mind, conquered.
......cause 9/11. (the fed)
see how that works? it is a loop, the "cause 9/11" loop
where there is no chance or choice regarding communication,
investigation or intelligence. you are not a kook, merely
surrounded by them, an unfortunate and uncomfortable position.
the no exit "cause 9/11" doom loop of public discourse
to mirror the fed's private fiat money doom loop of finance.
.
best to you, you can do this.

blindman's picture

cheney portrayed, the lunch of some prisoners was pureed and
injected into their anuses as a medical procedure. does
anyone else in the universe find this to be extremely cynical,
the cynical one would normally associate with the nazi branch
of the fascist agenda? calling dr. mengele.
medical torture is the term that comes to mind.

koan's picture

My only question is why do people sitll operate under the impression that the MSM is legit in anyway? That it anything other than the propaganda wing of the MIC.

blindman's picture

i guess for the same reason that a child with
drunken, abusive and sodomizing parents still
uses the words "mom" and "dad", even when he
or she doesn't mean it anymore. but, there comes a time ....
.
Comes A Time - Neil Young
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsWrmJjD2eY

blindman's picture

there is no law that need be respected
anymore ......
cause 9/11.
no moral code will find harbor ....
cause 9/11.
.
don't drone me bro. it is just
cause 9/11.

blindman's picture

why 9/11 was so important;
to this day they use the fantasy referred to
as the official story as justification to
continue and extend their crimes, of all sorts,
against humanity. carl rove this morning defending
torture because .....9/11. amy goodman also looks
past many crimes because ....9/11.
.
mike ruppert got it right and then, he is dead,
somehow.
.
it is so obvious who did 9/11, and why, and no one
in the media is tolerated who dares speak the truth.
so, we communicate in a domain saturated in falsehoods
and tolerate half truth, all bullshit, rationalizations
forming the foundation of ignorance and stupidity
upon which we build nothing of interest or value
and call it progress.
ray mcgovern said " you cannot authorize torture anymore
than you can authorize slavery or rape, they are in the same
moral category." i would add murder to his list. yet,
if you look around you realize that, today, all of these
are authorized to certain segments of the populations.
it has been normalized and it spells doom for productive
public discourse.
.
i saw birdman yesterday. great movie, love michael
keaton, ed norton and emma stone in that. the greek
dude was funny too, the entire cast, fantastic.
saddest movie i have seen in a while. in a way it sums
up the the tragedy of contemporary "man".
.
oh, cheney on meet the press now claiming .....
cause 9/11 again. he knows stuff about 9/11 the
world would like to know but i wouldn't suggest
he be tortured for it.
cause 9/11, cause 9/11, cause 9/11 ....
...........
......
.....
talking point. jeb bush....
cause 9/11 ....hillary clinton , cause 9/11 ..
....

blindman's picture

simply put. ray mcgovern said " you cannot authorize
torture anymore than you can authorize slavery or rape.
they are in the same moral category."
.
cheney says you can authorize all of it. no?
and he is well respected, good luck with that.
come to think of it, the current administration
has no moral compass prohibiting rape, slavery,
torture or murder either, yet they still wave
the flag. same as the media.
.
they have scrapped the bolts and hardware
that keeps the ship afloat. sink or swim billy
.....

blindman's picture

Amy Goodman On RT’s Crosstalk. #Hero
Posted on December 13, 2014 by maxkeiser —

Read more at http://www.maxkeiser.com/#1P24pIik48uD4Lsf.99

blindman's picture

cheney on meat(sic) the press at 9:00 am, e.s.t..
.
it is early but, one shot for every silverstein
snear, two shots for every damned lie and a beer
for every cowardly dismissal of murder, the blood of which
he would like to place on your hands from his very own.
.
enjoy the program. a shot and a beer every time he says
the name jeb bush. that is all, see you next week.

Midnight Hour's picture

I can see that you Amercans have learned from past Masters on how to get Prisoners to talk. The Gestapo comes to mind as the experts, the KGB, the Stasi and yet you still claim that you are the good Guys. You are just as evil as all of the rest of them and you wonder why you are hated just about everywhere. The sooner your evil Empire falls to pieces the better, then the next evil Empire can take over.

Wahooo's picture

War crime tribunals for Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld. No quarter.

Vuke's picture

No trials until they confess all sins under torture.  Cheney can be allowed have a couple of spare hearts on ice for the ordeal.

MEAN BUSINESS's picture

 

 

Sun, 12/14/2014 - 00:35 | 5549662Radical Marijuana
Vote up!

0
Vote down!

0

Not so easy to "get used to" when they are criminally insane, and so, driving the human species towards collective suicide!

 

 

========

 

"What were you thinking?"- Al Gore, Lima December 2014.

The last search engine run will tell us how many species went with us.

100 -400 or 500 generations. Or more or less. After that it's Nobody's guess.

We KNEW

"How did you find the moral courage?"-Al Gore, Lima December 2014

 

bid the soldiers shoot's picture

Anyone wonder why this report on torture was released and and shown to the American people.  It could have been very easy to prevent the Senate from taking it public.

Isn't this just threat to US citizens about what they can expect in the near future if they join or support any groups that the government deem terrorist?

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, was apprehended after the Boston bombing heavily wounded but not in his throat according to photographs.  Since he was released from the hospital, he has a bullet wound in his throat which will prevent him from speaking in court.  

Not unlike the shot that shattered Robespierre's jaw after the Convention declared him an outlaw. Some say it was Robespierre's shot that broke his jaw; others say it was a National Guardsman.  Needless to say, the eloquent Frenchman did not speak from the scaffold.

 

And who can forget this recent story?

On the afternoon of May 22, 2013, law enforcement officers, including FBI special agent Aaron McFarlane from the Boston field office and two Massachusetts State Police (MSP) troopers, Curtis Cinelli and Joel Gagne, arrived at Ibragim Todashev's apartment in Orlando, Florida, and interviewed Todashev for approximately eight hours in his living room....................... Officials initially claimed that Todashev picked up a knife or attempted to grab a samurai sword from the wall, but later said that it was unclear whether this was the case; one source said it was "a knife or a pipe or something". A number of later reports said that he was unarmed.[23][24][25][26] Some earlier accounts implied that the FBI agent was alone with Todashev at the time of the shooting............. Authorities have confirmed that the agent fired six times.[29].

 

shovelhead's picture

Jeez.

Oh, the horror. Oh the shame.

Get over it. We are not the good guys. We never were. Running an Empire is a dirty business and it take dirty people doing dirty things to make it happen.

You don't like it? Too bad, you ain't running things and they don't give one single shit about what you know or don't know or what you do. They mouth little shitballs of concern and a new story takes it's place on the cycle.

There it is. An unpleasant reality.

Saddam was going to sell oil in Euros means he had to go. Period. Yellow-cake, al-Qaida, WMD's, sure, a story would be nice but since everyone in Congress was pretty much on board, who cares? The trouble was is once you task a group to do something, they do it and they keep doing it until you tell them to stop. Get me corroborating evidence. Okie Dokie.

You got the Mafia running your country and your upset they're not polite and operate like the Mafia?

I wouldn't be one bit surprised if there were human skins hanging on the chain-link fences of Guantanamo.

These aren't nice people. Get used to it.

 

 

Wahooo's picture

Fine. Just don't complain when our enemies fire bomb our cities.

Radical Marijuana's picture

Not so easy to "get used to" when they are criminally insane, and so, driving the human species towards collective suicide!

TeethVillage88s's picture

+ 1 here. But with things getting bigger and bigger... how do we make them smaller?

I say balkanization of USA.

They wouldn't let states secede, but short of that must be lots of maneuvers & strategies...

- Having state buy precious metal,
- consider coining money,
- create strong state & public banking within each state,
- develop corporations that don't depend on federal funding & contracts
- organize state resources with fewer links to federal .gov & Wall Street
- Be energy independent
- Replace DC & Wall Street as much as possible

Texas & Utah might have a shot...

Bumbu Sauce's picture

Ripe for sharia.  Probably in my lifetime.

TeethVillage88s's picture

The world alternately thinks of us with respect or horror, they think we are dumb or smart, Fear us or think we are idots, are angry at us for financial fraud or buy our US Long Term Treasuries, Want to beat our American Asses overseas & want our money and Tourists.

I think we took over the British Empire's Military Arm & Took over the Nazi Technology and Fascism.

But the Wealthy Elite used our Military before the Monroe Doctrine... which was like 1823.

So we took the American Idea... and it was Corrupted and Overturned by the Elites, Wealthy, and Political Class almost Simultaneously.

Freedom, Liberty, Equality, & Justice...

It is a Lie. We are constantly Lied to. Power Rules... all others drool.

WhyWait's picture

It makes me want to puke when I hear public figures whining that we shouldn't be torturing people because "torture doesn't work".  Should we oppose mass murder, genocide, biological and nuclear warfare because they "don't work"?  Suppose they do?  

But more, the "doesn't work" argument is based on wilfully ignoring a reality that's been right in front of us all along, the reality GW has summarized and documented so elequently here.  The torture, the destruction of almost randomly selected victims' minds, bodies and lives, was never about extracting information in the first place!  It was always about the use of unrestrained power for subjugation and control of the victims and of all who might dare to resist.

The American people need to recognize this as NaZi stuff, as an evil so repugnant and profound that it cannont ever be countenanced.  We must insist that all who speak in our name resoundingly denounce and repudiate it before it is turned on the rest of us, and hold those who authorize it criminally liable.  

Whether it works or not.

 

TeethVillage88s's picture

Remind you of Nazis??? Auchtung Baby!!

Yeah, I see you mentioned Nazis... At first I didn't realize that. Good comparison I was working on above.

Veteran's Know we have a Military Republic not some Democratic Thing. Orders, Discipline, Hard Jobs, Mission, Service, Patriotism, ... Maybe the Military & Veterans are the ones the most Brain Washed... just a thought...

MASTER OF UNIVERSE's picture

The apologetic nature of the 'it does not work but we did it anyways'

rhetoric is mere subterfuge, I agree. Ethics matter and the Satanists

in the CIA are simply attempting to condition society to give up on ethics so anything goes and they can act with impunity towards the 99%. Divide and rule tactics only work if one falls for the divisions.

"If you are not with us you are with the terrorists"....George W. Bush

Jr. "The people accused of torturing detainees were patriots".... George W. Bush, et cetera. Denial of outright criminal behaviour on the part of American politicians should be expected in this day and age after 911.

Americans have been living in a trance state of disbelief since 911 and the "Official Version" just takes them deeper into the mythology

while the very same politicians that caused it continue to deny that they did anything wrong because they are 'Patriots' of the 'American'

way and can do nothing wrong when they operate within a paradigm of plausible deniability. Denial is the best psychological defense mechanism ever discovered in the lexicon of defense mechanisms in Psychology proper. Every Psychologist worth their salt always starts with _denial_ as the most primative form of psychological defense.

Unfortunately, most Americans are in denial regarding the Bush era Torture Regime and the MSM are not about to counter that anytime soon.

TeethVillage88s's picture

Yeah, I think you get it. But is not just 9-11:

- False Flag 9-11 for Iraq War & Take Over
- Denial of 2008 Financial Fraud from 1998
- Denial of CIA, NSA, other Secret Agency anti-democratic activities
- Foreign Policy that is confused, anti-democratic, and Fascist
- Denial of the power of Money to Corrupt the US Federal .gov
- Denial that Lawyers, Bankers, Lobbyists, and Others Corrupt the USA, the Idea of America
- Denial that the Idea of America is about not interfering with Foreign Governments & Foreign Democracies
- Denial that Selling Weapons & Federal Grants & Approved Weapons Sales to Foreign Countries is totally Corrupt & full of Moral Hazard

Phil Gramm - 25 People to Blame for the Financial Crisis - TIME

content.time.com/ time/ specials/ packages/ article/ 0, 28804, 1877351_1877350_1877330, 00.html
... of the Senate Banking Committee from 1995 through 2000, Gramm was Washington's most prominent and outspoken champion of financial deregulation.

Ignatius's picture

"The American people need to recognize this as NaZi stuff, as an evil so repugnant and profound that it cannont ever be countenanced."

I'm thinking lately that, by comparison, the Nazis have come up a few notches.

TeethVillage88s's picture

+ 1, yeah, we tortured some Vets.

Control is often by Propaganda and Cognitive Errors show Americans can no longer think freely.

The Fascist/Nazis have won or are winning.

Cognitive Distortions/Errors and Bias is Rampant.

Learning Philosophy can counter this trend. G.W.B said you are with us or against us... This is a key Fascist Statement by a Key Fascist.

Ignatius's picture

This is great, a must see for 9/11 skeptics.  A pink haired girl beats NASA scientist on a physics problem after researching the problem with the help of "9/11 conspiracy websites":

http://vimeo.com/111784223

Radical Marijuana's picture

Thanks for that entertaining link, Ignatius!

It is relatively elementary physics which proves the 9/11 official story was quite absurd. However, from the political point of view, since most people shall never bother to become better informed, more truth does NOT do anything significant, to change those lies, that continue being backed by violence!

Since most people appear to NOT be able to "get it" that privately controlled banks making the public "money" supply out of nothing as debts is fraud, why could one expect them to understand the physics of steel structures?

One could say that, for generation after generation, people have been "tortured" by their social circumstances, wherein agreeing with the biggest bullies' bullshit was rewarded, while disagreeing was punished, to the point where the majority of people agree with absurd bullshit, while they feel afraid to not continue to do that.

SUCCESSFULLY BACKING UP LIES WITH VIOLENCE, WHICH IS A KIND OF "TORTURE," DRIVES PEOPLE TO BECOME PSYCHOTICALLY INSANE, WHICH DESCRIPTION APPARENTLY APPLIES TO THE MAJORITY OF THE HUMAN POPULATION, AT THE PRESENT TIME!

TeethVillage88s's picture

Probably shows what typical ZH posters look like, except for the old guys who are missing.

mototard's picture

Planning for the 2003 invasion of Iraq began in 1991 and was done mainly by those who would become known as neo-cons and the PNACers.  A major British think tank (RUSI) published this at the start of the war in 2003.

 

https://www.rusi.org/publications/journal/journal/keywords:iraq/ref:J40c...

Marching To War: The Invasion Of Iraq – A Plan Fourteen Years In The Making

RUSI Journal, Oct 2003, Vol. 148, No. 5 By Tom Quiggin

 

windcatcher's picture

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

“We (I) will keep beating you up,
until you start acting better (to our expectations)”

blindman's picture

Dick Cheney wants you to know he doesn’t care what you think
By Justin Moyer December 12
http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/12/12/dick-cheney-w...
.
..."Cheney didn’t care about public opinion in 2008 when, on “Good Morning America,” he responded to the fact that two-thirds of Americans thought the Iraq War wasn’t worth fighting. “So?” Cheney asked. “You cannot be blown off-course by the fluctuations in the public opinion polls.”

Seven years out of office, Cheney didn’t care when confronted with a Wall Street Journal opinion poll that said 71 percent of Americans disapproved of the Iraq War — and that the Islamic State’s rise has been linked to Bush’s administration’s alleged mismanagement of Iraq. “Obama’s failure to provide for a stay-behind force created the havoc we see in Iraq today,” he told CNN’s Jake Tapper." ...j.m.

Withdrawn Sanction's picture

Dick (aka "the Dark Lord") Cheney could not stay enrolled at Yale because of bad grades.  The man's dumber than a bag of hammers.  He's clever, I'll give him that, but intelligence is not his strong suit.

gwar5's picture

Pelosi, Reid, Kerry, and Barrack "won't-release-my-grades" Obama are all not smart people, either. Kerry had worse grades than Bush but got away with calling him dumb.

Radical Marijuana's picture

Being able and willing to be more evil that most people could comprehend appears to be Cheney's primary talent, which got him promoted by the ruling classes in order to carry out their agenda.

I find it quite difficult to imagine the kind of "cleverness" that can operate without any apparent compassion. However, there are clearly people whose personality enables them to do that, and they are picked and promoted into positions of power within the social pyramid systems that were built on the basis of backing up lies with violence for many thousands of years.

nostromo17's picture
Usurious's picture
Usurious (not verified) nostromo17 Dec 13, 2014 10:54 AM

PNAC......thanks for the link..........

Fun Facts's picture

The companion to The Project for the New American Century [PNAC] is "a clean break" securing the realm.

This was the forerunner to PNAC, written by Feith and Perle in 1996 for then incoming prime minister Netanyahoo.

Securing the realm in a nutshell argued that the mideast needs to be attacked and destroyed in order to make way for Greater Israel [from the tigress to the euphrates] and Pax Americana.

By 2000 PNAC noted that they were going to need "A New Pearl Harbor" [page51] in order to get the job done. A year later they got their New Pearl Harbor to manufacture the consent for what we endure today.

TeethVillage88s's picture

Maybe we can tie some of the things that have to be done in the USA and see how the winning neocons will continue with greater Israel.

- Presidential Election 2016
- Obama Care, Amnesty, Demographics Problems
- QE, ZIRP, No Interest Rate on Savings
- All TIme Highs in Stock Market, but cheap money now has little velocity and limited up side
- High Household Debt, Little Retirement Funds, Little Savings, Debt Slaves in effect
- Exponential Growth in DoD funding, Weapons costs, and Federal Debt
- High use of US Mercenaries, Private Armies
- ISIS/ISIL/IS Terror, Failed States in Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia
- Ebola or other Epidemic/Pandemic

Attack like Pearl Harbor (False Flag Attack) still seems like the most effective propaganda tool

Race Riots seem only to serve the domestic police state

America needs some new found wealth plus a Ready & Motivated Military... to restart the wars

nostromo17's picture

THe Web Archive for PNAC Project for a New American Century here --> https://web.archive.org/web/20130609155055/http://www.newamericancentury...

PNAC's first order of business was Iraq, which as George Packer wrote in his 2005 book The Assassins' Gate, would serve "as the test case for [neoconservative] ideas about American power and world leadership."

 

Fun Facts's picture

"neoconservative ideas" come from Leo Strauss, called "the godfather of neoconservatism"

Paul Wolfowitz was his protege, studying under him directly at the University of Chicago.

Leo Strauss was a communist. He was a proponent of "the big lie" technique, and his philosophy was that people are stupid, and must be governed by an intellectual elite who are superior by nature. These stupid masses [for their own benefit] must be lied to, given an enemy for cohesion and plenty of other pathological crap.

falak pema's picture

very Popish or Ayatollahish in his logic is Leo S.

"Little knowledge is a dangerous thing". Thats why the people need God's Vicar on earth and Kings of divine rights (or Oligarchs) !

Hahaha, Voltaire said it best : If God hadn't existed we would have to invent him! 

lakecity55's picture

Yeah, no story on how the senators are torturing us with their crimes and graft.

disabledvet's picture

No mention that this should either.

Bwhahahahahahaha.

"We tortured some folks!"

 

Pretty pathetic one sided article.  Let's face it...there is a reason no one cares about even the reports....let alone that anyone is going to do anything about them.

 

"Torture" is the rule now folks.  

 

Just get over it I guess....

TeethVillage88s's picture

We tortured some Vets...

- they always ignore, abuse, neglect the war fighters
- but there are some good communities
- Federal Government has no intention of tell the truth, at least for 40 years since Church committee

nostromo17's picture

All comes back to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

Persons associated with the PNAC[edit] Project directors[edit]

[as listed on the PNAC website:]

Project staff[edit] Former directors and staff[edit] Signatories to Statement of Principles[edit] Signatories or contributors to other significant letters or reports[16][edit]
Wahooo's picture

Disgusting to read that entry in Wiki. These people are nothing but oligarchs and their shills for the MIC. This document has replaced the US Consitution as the guiding force in America.

  • we need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future;
  • we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;
  • we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad; [and]
  • we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.

TeethVillage88s's picture

Lindsey Graham must not have signed it for political cover.

BendGuyhere's picture

So the official 9/11 story is completely phony, the result of someone admitting anything just to make the pain stop?