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Commodity Trading Giant Exits Physical Gold Due To "Lack Of Physical With A Documented Origin"
Back in March, otherwise very under-the-radar Swiss commodities trading giant Gunvor and the fifth largest oil trader in the world, made headlines in the press when one of its then-Russian owners, billionaire Gennady Timchenko (estimated net worth of $8.5 billion), sold his entire 44% stake in the company to his partner in the firm, Torbjorn Tonqvist, just a day before the US revealed its first round of sanctions against individuals affiliated with the Putin regime. Timchenko was among them. As a result of the sale, however, Gunvor avoided falling on the US sanctions list and a Treasury official said that "Gunvor Group Ltd. isn’t subject to automatic blocking from dealing with U.S. persons under Russian sanctions because co-founder Gennady Timchenko owns less than 50 percent of the company."
Since then the Geneva-based company rarely appeared in the media which is how the nondescript company lliked it. Until last week, that is, when Bloomberg reported that the company was giving up trading physical precious metals, read gold, less than a year after the commodity house started a business dedicated to buying and selling gold. Gunvor is, or rather was, one of the few large commodity firms that handles precious metals. The move into gold was part of an expansion into non-oil businesses that now include iron ore, industrial metals and natural gas. Gold trading was done by a handful of people in Singapore and Geneva.
Gunvor's move away from physical commodities trading in itself is not surprising: recall that first it was Germany banking titan Deutsche Bank which announced it would no longer trade physical precious metals last month.
According to Bloomberg at least two traders are leaving the company in Geneva and Singapore: Francois Beuzelin, hired in 2012 as head of metals in Geneva, and Cedric Chanu, who started in Singapore in January as a precious-metals trader. Chanu declined to comment by phone and Beuzelin didn’t answer calls to his office nor an e-mail sent via his LinkedIn account.
But the biggest surprise in this story was the reason why Gunvor chose to discontinues its gold trading. Per Bloomberg, "executives decided to abandon the precious metals trading business partly because of difficulties in finding steady supplies of gold where the origin could be well documented, one of the people said."
And while we would certainly love to learn more about this problem of "undocumented" physical gold, just like that we have the most definitive confirmation yet that the story surrounding China's rehypothecated commodities scandal in the port of Qingdao which as previously reported included copper and aluminum and which mysteriously disappeared just as abruptly as it first appeared, not only also involved the precious yellow metal but never really went away, and instead what appears to have happened is that "robosigned" physical gold - or gold whose ownership traders are unable to validate - has now flooded into the global trading infrastructure.
Because if the world's fifth largest trader of commodities has chosen to outright not trade gold, and thus not generate value for its shareholders over risks and fears that another, or two, or three, or a countless number of other prior "owners" may come knocking one day and demanding delivery of gold whose origin could not be documented by its trading intermediaries, and whose ownership link Gunvor is unable to trace, then just what on earth is really going on with the world's physical gold inventory (here's looking at you, Chinese gold-backed Commodity Funding Deals), and just what is the catalyst that will unleash what is essentially the infamous US mortgage robosigning scandal onto the gold arena, at which point owners of gold realize the gold they thought they owned, even if held safely in a deposit box deep in a gold vault in a safe offshore location, in reality "belongs" to someone else?
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This is why paper is superior to physical.
I gol'd.
Regards,
Cooter
H/T the bitcoin bug from this mornings thread for the new lingo!
Bernank is drinking to this news, hoping to scoop up a few monsters in the 8,XXX range.
Kind a reminds me of those Gold-foiled chocolate coin candies.
GO PHYSICAL FOR THE WIN!!!
Fewer and fewer seem to be in the physical gold game. I do not know what that means, but I sure am glad that I have been a buyer of physical gold since the mid-1980s.
And gold coins will NOT have the ugly provenance issue that bullion bars might...
* * *
From the article above:
"...billionaire Gennady Timchenko (estimated net worth of $8.5 billion), sold his entire 44% stake in the company to his partner in the firm, Torbjorn Tonqvist..."
Gennady Timchenko is one of Putin's billionaire buddies I referred to on another thread.
He must be lucky I guess... And this from wikipedia:
"Because of his high taxes, Gennady Timchenko moved to Switzerland in 2002.[37]"
* * *
I just saw this at reddit (100 roubles / euro now):
http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/2pgswq/ruble_hits_100_against...
Multiple owners of the same Ponzi'd gold bars.
That could make the LBMA cave in:
http://www.safehaven.com/article/36031/lbma-implosion-by-reversal-of-its-own-gold-leverage
"...executives decided to abandon the precious metals trading business partly because of difficulties in finding steady supplies of gold where the origin could be well documented, one of the people said..."
No problem, just grind the Balinese Dancers off the bars; good as new!
http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/9/95/IJ-GoldBarsa.jpg/600px-IJ-GoldBarsa.jpg
One golden rule about gold is that it is yours only if you hold it in your hands.
If you can't withdrawl it, it aint yours.
EXCELLENT Article Tyler .........
If You Don't Take Possesion Of Your Physical GOLD, You Don't Have It!
The WOLVES Have It, Or 25 Other Entities (Same GOLD)...
Here's a link that works to the LBMA story:
http://www.safehaven.com/article/36031/lbma-implosion-by-reversal-of-its-own-gold-leverage
I think what the article alludes to as well is that the gold bar in your hand might actually be tungsten so even phyzz aint really that safe.
Gives confiscation a new angle.
Sorry about those 6 gold maples you bought from Kitco last year buddy, that was Ukraines gold, you gotta give them back!
Those are gone... but feel free to admire my lovely "black" falcon statue.
So sorry, but the gold maples are at the bottom of the lake...I'd be happy to pay you for the six ounces based on the current paper price of gold however....
I've been hearing about these 'imminent' physical shortages since I took an interest in this stuff at least 6 years ago.
Maybe Yamashita's gold is not just a myth. FOFOA rather scornfully dismissed this in one of his typically long-winded articles but I found his reasoning to be very weak.
Either Western CB vaults really are running on fumes, or there's a great deal more of this stuff than is commonly admitted.
I speak as a somewhat disillusioned PM holder myself... not that I'm going to sell; where else would I park my capital in this environment?
Oh yeah, I hear this 'shale thing' is gonna make fortunes for early investors, don't miss out! I think I'll sell my PMs and get me some of that junk bonds! With oil going up in perpetuity, it's a no-brainer!
Bigjim, I hear you. remember the whole shebang is a criminal enterprise..set up in the west to keep wealth and power in a few hands. So we tolerate or forget it is crime we are looking at, and give creedence to those experts who give us logic to find safe investments, graphs, data, PE's, ROI..when a few hands really determine the winners..PM's have no counter party risk, but they do have major legal risk, the pols can make You the criminal for owning them..remember we all are trying to figure out what the major players will pick as winners. nothing else matters in these markets..good luck, hope they let the small investor live another day.
Thanks. In the end it's 'only' money ;-)
Well then, who is to blame for continuing to tolerate that kind of behavior? Because if you comply, start practicing your mewling for when they outlaw all physical currency.
If you don't hold it. . .
you'll get your shoes all wet...
LOL, it coulda been worse
Davy Jones has owned my gold for quite awhile now, under about 100 fathoms of deep blue sea.
.gov will figure out a way to tax it.
"I don't...like boats." - Carlito Brigante
I've been buying shovels all year, now it's time to go digging.
We always have openings available in our organization for talented visionary entrepreneurs like yourself. Shoot us an updated resume if you have some spare time in between digs
If you've leveraged your talents to their full capacity we don't expect to be hearing from you
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-16/commodity-trading-giant-exits-p...
Just have to say - Gold. if you dont hold it (in your hand!) you dont own it .... but you also need to protect it against other people trying to claim it (or steal it).
PM's are good, but something to note: Bitcoin or more precisely, the private key that controls some Bitcoin, can be held too. If it is held offline in a paper wallet, and that wallet is secured properly, there is no need for the provenance of ownership that is the issue in this article.
How much did you lose in Bitcoin? You’re anonymous, let us know.
As an owner of silver, I don't feel in a position to gloat about bitcoin holders' losses.
Meh, silver's mispriced and you know it. Commence gloating.
The market can stay mispriced longer than I can stay solvent :-)
There's the rub. The term strong and weak hands indeed refers to how much they can extract back against someone's wishes.
Dont think of it in terms of dollar value if you're not going to flip it. Give it to your grandchildren.
This is why a hole in my property is superior to bank vaults and paper.
No one has claim to a gold coin except the one who has it in his hands
It ain't "physical" unless it is in your pocket.
"Well, I own 10,000 ounces of gold ! I'm such a smart guy."
"Where is that gold, smart guy ?"
"Oh, it's in a very safe vault in Switzerland."
There's a sucker born every minute.
there are no safe places for gold, tell me one and I will tell you why it's not
In an arse of unknown origin?
There are no safe places for anything. That's life.you roll the dice and try to use prudence in your decisions.
prudence... now thats a word more out of parlance than the word 'parlance'2
Trick question. It woldn't be safe if I told anyone.
I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell ya then.
Buy from a miner. Origin documented.
Actually UNDOCUMENTED or SUSPICIOUSLY DOCUMENTED GOLD has been an issue in the gold industry for many many, many, years -- specifically from miners in certain jurisdictions.
In fact back in the "good old days" (before rehypothecation was trendy) it was the miners who were the problem...
More recently the charlatans at the World Gold Council used the issue an opportunity to peddle "conflict free" gold in an effort to strengthen the bullion banks and large miners oligopoly.
And now John Corzine's buddies figure that if they can't dig gold out of the ground for $5/oz, then perhaps the lawyers can get them some at $500/hr...
The number of lawyers involved the physical gold trade is sickening... particularly since the very next step is usually (re-) refining, so its not the purity of gold that is in question.
Caveat Emptor/Caveat Venditor, Common Law/Civil Law, fungible goods crossing international borders, and since the banks and business write the trade treaties for their little meat puppets like Obamy and Bushy -- you can guess who doesn't need to beware...
Just because the supposed origin of gold is a miner, doesn't mean that is documented, much less legitimately documented.
The fact that over 25 people would blindly up-vote that comment tells you all you need to know about the true level of knowledge and wisdom of the gold trade here...
Sweet. Death to the paper markets.
Demand physical possession.
Any player with 10b or so can bust the ponzi scheme by taking delivery on every ounce left at the crimex and LME.
If you have access to unlimited funds to short, plus you can settle in cash, rather than metal, that scheme doesn't work. More than likely the reason it hasn't been done is because of that catch 22.
cash settle = default.
If you have a position on the comex, at the first whiff of cash settle you do what?
You move your position to another exchange. This eventually ends up as a limit down movement on the comex and limit up on the deliverable exchange.
To make a long story short, work it all out and you have a catastrophic chain reaction of exchange failures and the only gold exchanges left are the physical exchanges in Asia, going for about 10x current syndicate rigged price.
Not sure a out 10x, but this story (if true), should spark some interest. Why would anyone drop profitable activities due to what amounts to lack of proper title history if they didnt believe it to be true? Just one firm, doesnt mean much I suppose. But has to make one think.
10x is just back of the napkin and predicated on a domino exchange collapse that I believe would occur if the comex issued a cash settle notice. I wouldn't get hung up on that.
The shorts will hang on...the longs will bail...limit down move as the longs bail and the exchange loses all credibility....one after another.
I have a long position in London [I don't do business with the crimex], and at the slightest hint of any exchange irregularity there, that position would be moved to a non suspect exchange probably in asia....it can be easily moved in a minute with a few button presses.
Everyone else with any sense will do the same thing. We all have itchy trigger fingers and exchange contacts ready to alert us...finger always near the button. We all know we're getting close to the end game here.
One frosty morn, soon, there will be no more for sale.
We tricked some folk's.
We Linda Greened some folks.......
Of Corzine I aGreen that you should always Dimond physical. Otherwise you could be left with nothing but a Blankfein and that would be a real 'bama.
Don't let anyone tell you different. Tell them to Krug off.
Thanks. I still miss the limerick king though. Let me give it a shot:
The Chinks are filling their hold
And the Frogs are demanding their gold
The Queen be a fakin'
And Janet is quakin'
Their Empire might just have to fold
Silver For The People
the limeric king was posting in these parts just the other day........
,,,,,,,briiics!
We Rehypothecated some folks...
We Rehypothecated some folks...
All your gold is belong to Corzine.
We tortured some goldbugs.
Then we discovered we could torture 100 times more.
Like stacking coffins in a cemetery.
The gold belongs to the owner that can take control of it even if they don't own it.
Take those suspect good delivery bars, melt them and make non-suspect good delivery bars. I bet the Baron does that with all his bars.
Convert it into jewellery.
+100)
http://www.matthey.com/media_and_news/news/2014/gold-silver-refining-asahi
Semi o/t but relevant.
shitco
Thanks, that's interesting
Australias got gold, Hell where so nice we will sell it to you a cost like we do the chinese 66% of our supply, there might be some left but i think thats going to the bullion dealers on the street to keep up so called supply.
Plus perth mint is included in the greatest wave of asset sales we've ever seen.
It was mentioned in an article in the Australian... but I am not a subscriber so could not read any detail.
Gold sold lately is pirated gold.
Libya, Ukraine and soon, Venezuela.
"Gold sold lately is pirated gold. Libya, Ukraine and soon, Venezuela."
The message that the US is trying (and perhaps succeeding) in sending to certain oil or gold rich countries is that...
"You can't rely on Russia when things get rough and ugly. You'll lose your currency, your asse(t)s and your country to US or our merc proxies. Especially now that they got their hands full, while Wall St is partying like it's 1999. Who's your daddy?"
They might be scoundrels and FAR worse, but they are successful. On points, so far.
Can the Feduary and the PPT provide liquidity to all the "markets" at the same time?
Liquidity isn't sovency ... nana nana boo boo
repo to the moon arseholes
I like keeping my silver maples in my safe. I know exactly where they are and who they belong to.
dow jones
OPSEC, dipshit
OPSEC, dipshit
ROTFLMBO!!!
wasn't the point the history before you bought it or did I misunderstand the article?
I like keeping my silver maples in my safe.
But don't they make everything all sticky? I put MY maples on pancakes... ummmmm..... pancakes!
We encumbered some folks gold...
Linda Gold...
Andrew Gold.
Chaos to ensue...
Even a used car salesman takes physical control of the commodity he trades. Where else but in "the markets" can one make money without having to shave or change out of one's pajamas or render any service to anyone? No wonder these people are so out of touch with life, the planet, humanity, and ethics.
guess you've never seen Fargo
:-) Saw both the movie and the series. Loved both.
'
'
'
Yikes-A-Doodle!?!
Skullduggery is afoot!
How much longer can this contraption hold together before it blows up?!?
•?•
V-V
"And while we would certainly love to learn more about this problem of "undocumented" physical gold, just like that we have the most definitive confirmation yet that the story surrounding China's rehypothecated commodities scandal in the port of Qingdao which as previously reported included copper and aluminum and which mysteriously disappeared just as abruptly as it first appeared"
Goldman and other western bankers ran a warehousing scheme on these metals in order to jack up the price so it would kind of make sense that the Chinese fabricated stores of the metals in an effort to lower the price. It would be interesting to see the timelines on these two activities.
IIRC, the "reason" China "had" locked, bonded warehouses of copper etc was to use as "security" for loans from said megabankers. So if there was no copper, and loans were made by the megabanks, then we need to play a little game called "who's the bigger fool"?
if the rehypothecation scheme fails i suppose the USG could outlaw the ownership of gold? just saying
LOL
Bull. Shit.
Nobody backs away from this without force.
Not so sure. At some point the litigation and other economic risks just don't make it worthwhile to potentially jeopardize the enterprise. The smart locust moves on to the next field. Unless what you're saying is that they are being forced to back away, in which case please elaborate.
My gold is backed by lead.
'even if held safely in a deposit box deep in a gold vault in a safe offshore location, in reality "belongs" to someone else?'
Somehow I think I would rather be the person on the end of the queue actually holding the Gold than all the people waving bits of paper around saying it is there's.
There could after all always be a tragic boating accident that results in the Gold being lost or the physical owner could suddenly find that the Gold bars are actually lead with a thin Gold exterior, or an unfortunate robbery....so sorry, paper wavers.
The article is kind of dumb. If I bought gold I would melt it and make my own bricks with my name on it.
How will someone going to claim it is their's? Did they take gold prints? Maybe gold DNA? If they asked where you got it, tell them you found it in the ground, where all the other gold is found.
I mined it in my own backyard, refined it in my garage but now I can't find it. Here's my police report I hope the police can find it
My understanding is that they intend to start looking for it just as soon as they've finished their morning donuts and ticketed a few speeding motorists.
Perhaps the reason why the Germans melted their, thus far, measly repatriation.
Then God came by and said, 'It all belongs to me and so do your lives'.
Kinda makes the point moot, eh folks?
yeah...OK..but which frigging GOD?....and don't tell me its the 'only one'......because...which frigging only one?
Excellent question. I suppose the one that wins :)
El.
Christianity, Judaeism and the Muslim religions all worship El, the Canaanite partiarchical god.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaanite_religion
But your souls are mine...bitchez.
Any smart PM investor that holds an identifiable physical asset should be keeping at least some of the following tools handy as a part of your Risk Management Plan
1. Miniature smelter
2. PVC pipe w/ threaded caps
3. Vacuum sealer
4. Waterproof bags for the vacuum sealer
5. Shovel
6. Hammer
7. Waterproof sealant
8. A piece of paper
9. A pen for your treasure map (X marks the spot)
The last thing you need is some Phoenician Pirate knocking at your attorney's door looking for reparations. Claiming the Nazi's stole their gold, you bought it and now they want it back or for you to compensate them for their loss
Fuku Ben - Professor Emeritus of Zero Hedge
Global Strategic Investment Diversification & Risk Management - 24/7/365 by Appointment Only
lmfao.....I'm going to bed....so I can get up early to watch the shit show tomorrow morning with a clear head. Nothing like watching stocks to the Moon to start off a Wednesday morning.
The BIS will be given charge to decide which of the TBTF banks are to be declared owners of a gold bar in each rehypothecation chain.
It's been a long and dusty road to get here. I think they are scraping the bottom of the barrel, and even the too big to jails are finally getting jittery.
I give it a month.
I've thought that before, unfortunately.
The portrayal of Gunvor as a trading giant is misleading (intentionally, I assume). Gunvor is an oil company. Its raison d'être has been discussed in many articles and I won't get into that here. But Gunvor is not a giant commodities company. It's physical gold trading operations were insignificant.
There are always problems in the Asian gold markets concerning origin. Buyers sometimes insist on Western stamped gold bars and refuse delivery of Asian stamped bars. The Singapore trader may have run into problems when he made commitments and tried to deliver Asian stamped gold. I am merely guessing, but this is a problem I encountered personally in physical in Singapore.
In any case, this article is pure hyperbole. Gunvor is hardly representative of the precious metal's trading market. If the author were intent on providing information and not simply a tantalizing headline, he would have contacted OTHER gold traders instead of trying to speak to two traders who are on gardening leave.
Can you please elaborate on your experience with origin issues? That differs from my experience working on the COMEX in NYC.
Do what the central banks do, if you run short sell it a few more times.
So much fuss over a barbaric relic like gold.
Chinee not so dumb recasting all those 400 oz bars into kilo bars eh? Kill two bird with one stone. Naughty tungsten purged and chain of custody cleared.
Chinee not so dumb I say.
What does the term "undocumented gold" mean? It sounds like they know it is documented gold they are trading, but without the proper documents. It could be stolen or it could be a sanctioned country. Either way, they wouldn't want their fingerprints on the deal. They need to say who is providing this gold, otherwise it is hard to make sense of this. But clearly they know it should not be legally coming to market.
Too shady a business for Russian mobsters?
Undocumented: 1) might be tungsten 2) might have numerous counterclaims on ownership. Like buying a house without an inspection and title search. Not a good idea.....
It's clear my Gold coins are mine. My slobber is all over them.
Gold Bitchez....I pick up pennies
Copper? All US Pennies minted prior to 1982 are copper, the 1982s are supposed to be about half of them copper, and 1983 and after are junk metal. Or you can root aroud your local dump and find old pieces of copper pipe & etc.
Mind me asking, but how can anyone come and claim that my goldbars would belong to him?
I just mean to say, gold is gold, isnt it? If its been melted, mixed and cast into new bars, it wouldnt be very easy to trace its orgin would it?
And then according to the law. If you bought a goldbar from a legimit company, paid your duties and everything around it and had it stored in your safe for many years. How could your right for ownership possibly be weaker than of someone who bought a fraudulent paper with a goldbar number on it?
I´m just sayin...
file those serial numbers!
On a related note. No one really knew the level, extent of criminal activity in the mortage markets before it was all brought out into the open, robosigning and all.
Many years ago a move in the U.S. was made to do away with physical Paper Stock Certificates, reasons of convience and delivery were put forward along with faster settlement times.
With "Naked Short Sales" much more "stock" than exists can and has been created. I've read the propaganda from DTC and other participants or interested party's in the "Clearing" operations.
Still, it seems to me that much the same thing that happened with the mass production, selling multiple times over the real quantity in the mortage market, is not only possible but likely to be occurring in the other U.S. markets, stock, bond, etc.
Maybe I'm just a cynic.
P.S. Imagine, if a Bank can go to court with a complete set of seemingly "Legal" documents, all in order, present their case, and take away someone's HOME that has been fully paid-OFF, what does that say about what's possible in other markets, all markets? If they did it there, where else?
strong deduction, padawan! entirely possible scenario. just what do we really "own" anyway
JP Morgan already tried that with me. I bought my house for cash in 09 nad the next year got a letter from Chase that they were assuming the loan on my house. Cunts
When the time comes the government is just going to say its all theirs and force us to turn it in.
On that day I strongly suspect revolution...
People are getting killed for selling loose cigs.
Wait until few gold bugs are dragged out of their suburban palaces and shot on their front lawn, with Little Suzy in the foreground wailing – “Don’t kill daddy!” “They killed, daddy.”.
So, how many fucking times did the police arrest that fat fuck for a crime that was decided by the people (not the police)? Why didn't the fat fuck comply with the officer's legal request and lawful order?
You're pathetic
The 'fat fuck' was a father of 6...Citizens have a legal right, indeed a duty, to resist 'peace officers' that are indicating violent or unreasonable intent. No different from situation in Venzuela or Brazil-you have a basic human right to defend your life against an imminent threat posed by a cop. Goes both ways.
What are the people supposed to do, just submit to being lead off to the cattle cars and sent to the gas chambers?
GFY!
Good thing everyone with property is completely unarmed all the time.
Gold and silver is lawful money in a constitutional sense. It is also "property" and property cannot be taken without due process of law and without "just compensation". And just what constitututes "just compensation"? >gov cuts down a forest, grinds it into paper, throws some fancy ink on whereby allowing a private corp to issue notes. And this is what constitutues "just comp?????? I have a real problem with that as one only needs to look to Germany or Zimbab. to see what happens when the issuing authority has the power to devalue, depreciate or simply declare its use null and void. These powers POSE A POLITICAL QUESTION UPON THE COURTS AS THEY ARE PRESUMED TO BE LEGISLATIVE NOT JUDICIAL.
And yet another issue with this fucking paper script. The feds can create and issue whatever the fuck they want. But SArticle1, section 10 declares that the STATES and their debts shall be paid in only Gold and silver. So who has ever gone after the States and their use of PAPER script as tender of debts? Thats right. NOBODY.
Of course most sane people will realize that if .gov ever tries to confiscate gold, its the end of the end game. The banks will have collapsed along with all major commerce. The fed will be helpless and law enforcement will have its hands full with riots and tax revolts. Black markets will use gold and silver, along with whisky, bullets, vegatable seed, ect as a means of trade. As for me, Im stockpiling food, fuel, ammo, and will be fabricating iron bars for all lower level windows/doors.
Its gonna be one fuck of a shitshow.
would like to know the blackmail behind it.....
don't worry Eric Holder will make sure the gold goes to the right owner
so.. not enough coffee..
but this thought crossed my mind. what if : zionazi NWO cabalists... have, after centruries of alchemy, found the secret to synthezing gold. new fangled chemistry, "lasers" ( queue Dr Evil ) etc...
and now the holds of these evil bastards are filled to the gills.. with gold! ( not tungsten, thats another more caffinated moment's talk )
‘after centruries of alchemy’
Have you ever heard the phrase, ‘hidden in plain site”? That’s alchemy…
Back in the olden days when attempts at synthesizing gold were being made the wise wizard said, “I’ve almost got this, I need a few more month. Until then, use this paper currency.” And that day, a synthesized substitute for pure gold was found.
This is all about the fraud in China (banks collateral for loans). I've owned WDR's from the COMEX. They look like Stock Certificates from the old days. Every entity that had ownership at one time has stamped/signed for the individual bar on the back of the certificate. They're really cool to see. I, of course, traded the WDR certificate for the physical bars and said fuck you very much.
This situation suggests a low-risk pair trade: Buy a Miners' ETF or Royalty firm and short-sell a Bullion ETF.
I would really like to know if this article is just a POS or if TPTB are really trying to weaken physical gold by saying I must prove history from time out of ground?
Do you have to prove history of the gas you pump into your tank?
This would invalidate all physical comodities. I bet it is just a bunch of lawyers trying to make money, but it would increase the cost of PM ownership.
See if TBTB would like you to investigate the title history of your mortgage. I'll bet they wouldn't.
No, this is more like the gas stations selling you paper for gas without actually handing over the gas on demand - if you have a car and need gas you're not going to accept this. You need real gas provable from the refinery from petroleum from the ground.
Same with gold consumers which deal with real gold trades & delivery: paper isn't gold so if all they're getting is paper there's no documentation they will ever get gold, so why trade it? Exit.
I wouldn't be surprised that the California gold rush never ended. It was just capped. Perhaps in the near future, after the dollar shipwreck, there'll be "discoveries" of new gold mines in Cali...located directly under military installations. How convenient.
All your gold are not verifiable.
i think this is the BIS's way to say, your the proud owner of some not so valueable memorabilia.
find a spot of prominence, in your fema trailer, and display your participation certificates , so the children will see, and ask, dad what are those framed cetificates?
the one on the right is my college degree in technical engineering, cool, is that why you get to work on the carts, down at the mart.gov.?
the one in the middle is a deed i recieved for paying for that house in the picture, did you trade it for this cool trailer, hear at the southwest hub, #17, lot# 666, @park.gov..?
the one on the left is the certificate that shows how many gold credits me, and your grandpa bought, with those credits along with the deed, is what got us this cool trailer, from gold-trader.gov., which i'm hoping will be yours, and your families, in the future.
http://newamerica-now.blogspot.com/2014/02/beyond-collapse.html
This is why I sold my gold and then found out that the gold market is TOTALLY manipulated by the big Bankers who control the market. I luckily bought early enough to buy at $1000/oz. So I didn't lose too much money. Will never play the gold, commodity, or stock market scams again.
"It's all fair because it is a free market transaction between consenting adults."
And they said it with a straight face. Didn't giggle or even smirk.
Deep down, I actually do like "free markets" and "capitalism". But I do know that they can and are manipulated. If you don't know who the patsy is, you're the patsy.