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Russia Has Begun Selling Its Gold, According To SocGen

Tyler Durden's picture




 

A few days ago, we first reported a rumor that was floating around Wall Street desks, and which, according to some, was the "reason" that gold was being kept lower even as sovereign risk was exploding around the globe. The rumor was that Russia was selling its gold holdings:

This led to Bloomberg speculating, and us rhetorically asking, if "Putin's next step will be to sell gold"

"Russia is at a critical juncture and given the sanctions placed upon them and the rapid decline in oil prices, they may be forced to dip into their gold reserves, if it happens it will push gold lower." That is what, according to some people Bloomberg has quoted, is in the cards.

 

While some suggest the accumulation was "tradition" it is still nonetheless an impressive aggregation of the barbarous relic:

 

 

So given the efforts to build this gold-backing for their nation's currency, do we really expect Putin to now dump his physical: or perhaps more strategically suggest a true gold-backed currency and jawbone the currency that way?

So what is the truth? Well, we won't for sure until the next official report by the Central Bank of Russia hits the IMF database,  but in the menatime, SocGen just reported that the selling may have started:

 

Looking at the correlation between gold and oil prices, the chart above illustrates that both commodities were moving closely in tandem over the July to September period. However, this link was broken in early October when gold embarked upon the new rally on weaker US dollar and some physical support, while oil prices continued to slide. The rally, nonetheless, proved to be short lived, as gold returned to its downtrend after hitting the $1,250 level on 21 October, and continued to move down, along with oil, for the remainder of the month.

 

Starting from November we have seen gold and oil prices moving in opposite directions again. As we mentioned earlier, oil prices came under significant pressure on concerns about a growing global oil supply glut. On the contrary, gold recovered some of its earlier losses, supported by fresh buying interest in India on the news that the Reserve Bank of India (RBI) was reviewing gold import restrictions that were introduced last year. Towards the end of November, the RBI surprised the markets by announcing the withdrawal of the 80:20 rule, which saw gold imports surging to 150 tonnes that month, according to the latest statistics from the Indian Ministry of Commerce and Industry. In addition, worries over the potential impact of stronger US dollar on the global economy spurred some safe-haven buying. 

 

...

 

It is not surprising that Russia has been tackling its financial problems by selling the gold they have been accumulating. According to the IMF data this year, one of the world's largest oil exporters acquired 115 tonnes in the January to September period, and added another 18.9 tonnes to their reserves in October. Russia has been purchasing the yellow metal at a faster pace this year, taking advantage of lower gold prices and, perhaps, preparing for the possibility of a long-lasting restrained relationship with the West and economic downturn. It appears possible that the Central Bank of Russia has started to sell off some of its gold reserves in December, with some sources reporting that official gold reserves dropped by $4.3 billion in the first week of the month.

Of course, it should be noted that SocGen and its "sources" have a conflict: in an indirect way, none other than SocGen is suddenly very interested in Russia stabilizing its economy because as we wrote before, "Russia Contagion Spreads To European Banks : French SocGen, Austrian Raiffeisen Plummet" which also sent SocGen's default risk higher in recent days. So if all it will take to stabilize the RUB sell off, reduce fears of Russian contagion, and halt the selloff of SocGen stocks is a "source" reporting what may or may not be the case, so be it. 

In any event, keep a close eye on the next update of Russian official gold holdings: it may well be the next big story of where gold is headed and, if true, an even more important question will be who is Russia selling its gold to.

 

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Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:10 | 5569032 no more banksters
no more banksters's picture

Not really:

“... I think it is up to the Central Bank to decide whether to reduce the interest rate or not, they should see and react accordingly. They should not hand out our gold and foreign currency reserves or burn them on the market, but provide lending resources. And they are doing this as well.”

Putin

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:10 | 5569035 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Just guessing this is all complete horse shit?

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:14 | 5569056 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

"YES"

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:19 | 5569097 pendragon
pendragon's picture

yes you are just guessing

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:27 | 5569151 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

You mean John Kerry started the rumor ?

Fri, 12/19/2014 - 00:39 | 5571440 xavi1951
xavi1951's picture

No! Bush did it.  Part of the 9-11 conspiracy.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:11 | 5569036 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

paper gold or physical gold?  Big difference.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:15 | 5569061 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

And "YES"!

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:30 | 5569167 noben
noben's picture

Once again, sir, you are the clever and lucid one in the room.

Taking your point, I'd have the CBR "sell paper gold" and demand bullion.

Else they can join the rehypothecation Ponzi by making their own version: Leasing it to China. Who lease it back. Who lease it to China, who...

What's good for the goose...

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:13 | 5569039 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Who has lots of gold and is siding with the west in its financial attack on Russia and war on Syria?  The Saudi's.  I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't helping out the bullion banks with some supply.  Just a thought.  Also if Russia were to sell gold, it would likely never hit the market (and go straight to China).

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:25 | 5569085 Counterpunch
Counterpunch's picture

To the extent the American Deep State will continue attempting to destabilize and break up Russia, Vlad might consider launching some missiles at Saudi oil fields/infrastructure.

He'd be doing us all a favor.

Although it seems increasingly likely that  the neocons will target SA for regime change.  They will probably find/create new evidence linking SA to 9/11, and leave out all the terrorism the US government approved of them engaging in {e.g. in Russia} over the past 13 years...

 

 

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:12 | 5569413 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Why fire a missile when things can just go BOOM all on their own?

I have read some 500+ years of Russian history, and this whole episode won't even fill a chapter when all is said and done.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:13 | 5569044 GFORCE
GFORCE's picture

An update on gold for the week. $1200 still key. 

http://investfts.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/gold-update-for-week.html

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:13 | 5569045 Mi Naem
Mi Naem's picture

More proof, if anyone needed it, that ZH will print just about anything to grab eyeballs. 

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:20 | 5569076 noben
noben's picture

I also junked you for not adding any real value to the Debate, and because the ZH Junker seems out today -- judging by the junks on this page.

Bet you that the Junker does not have the spine or balls to come forth. Wanker! Sorry... "Paid Wanker!"

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:36 | 5569206 blaireauhedge
blaireauhedge's picture

Don't you get that those stories are the real junk?

What? ZH is God? can't say anything about it while they've actually all but jump the shark?

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:04 | 5569356 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I'd say that SocGen is the one peddling junk stories. This thread is an effort to understand their motivation.

I don't understand why anyone would think that this shouldn't be on ZH. Sure Tyler throws out some clickbait from time to time, but this is hardly representative of the practice.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:23 | 5569116 cornflakesdisease
cornflakesdisease's picture

Go read king world news.  They will cheer you up.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:32 | 5569168 Mi Naem
Mi Naem's picture

Oh please, children.  It is an unusually stupid article. 

They've still got Treasuries to dump, for one thing. 

On the other hand, SocGen would never disseminate a lie for the currency wars, would they? 

And ZH would never snap it up and reprint it as a credulous headline. 

What a bunch maroons with your downarrows. 

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:46 | 5569258 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Maroon is a nice color. Not quite red though like your arrows.

Fri, 12/19/2014 - 00:43 | 5571444 xavi1951
xavi1951's picture

Get rid of the 'a', you moron!

Fri, 12/19/2014 - 00:40 | 5571443 xavi1951
xavi1951's picture

Finally!  Someone with a brain that doesn't have to ask OZ for a diploma.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:33 | 5569197 blaireauhedge
blaireauhedge's picture

I'm looking at DOW + 300 right now and thinking about ZH's "market is dumping" article from a couple hours ago.

It's kind of turned into the New York Post of finance come to think of it, what with the Kardashian ass stories, etc.

Come to think of it, has ZH ever published an article on the truth on Area 52 about to nuke the markets in oblivion and ET going home with half the world's gold reserves, sending the value of the remaining half up to $1 billion an ounce?

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:15 | 5569055 monmick
monmick's picture

Russia could sell as much gold as she needs to directly to China without any of it hitting the market...

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:37 | 5569261 noben
noben's picture

"Russia could sell as much gold as she needs to directly to China without any of it hitting the market..."

Dear Pres. Putin and CBR:

I'm happy to buy some of your 0.9999 gold for Terms that are mutually beneficial. I'll pay $32.000,00 per kilo and up to 33 kilos ($1M), but I insist that they be stored for free at a Moscow or St. Petersburg bank of my choosing, and with a bank account that you will help me set up.

Deal? Have Tyler contact me. Serious offers only, please.

-Noben

p.s. ZHers and their writing Contributors (Black, Casey, Maloney, Martensen...) are welcome to join the Gold Pool Storage, and put their gold where their mouth is. :-)

pps. to my original 13:47 posting…
To my critics I say: I’ll wager it’ll be safer than at an American, British, French, German or Swiss bank. As will my unfettered and unencumbered by a Goldman/Taxman. ‘Crazy!’ you say? Yes, ‘Crazy like a fox’. Have >1 passport and not afraid to use it.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:16 | 5569058 FreeShitter
FreeShitter's picture

NWO is winning folks, this has been thier devious plan all along. Putin will either submit or give um' Hell.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:18 | 5569079 semperfi
semperfi's picture

NWO is about to get their ass handed to them

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:18 | 5569090 FreeShitter
FreeShitter's picture

I hope you are right.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:41 | 5569230 seek
seek's picture

The NWO has been losing for some time now. All the desperate, insane monetary moves of the past 5 years (ZIRP, gold suppression, turbo-printing, Dodd-Frank bail-in laws) aren't something a winning government/quasi-government does.

Simply put, the beast is dying, which is why in its thrashing death throes it's been trying to pick a war with practically every non-aligned group on the planet. They had a grand plan that they thought was just in their reach, but their own greed and rush to implement it blew it up in their face, and instead of a one-world government being an apparently organic growth if it happens at all it'll be an obvious farce done against the will of the people of every country involved, in some cases by force.

I'm pretty sure if Putin just rides this out, in a couple years he'll look like a winner even if he does absolutely nothing as the rest of the NWO-aligned world collapses around him.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:06 | 5569370 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Actually, you can go back to Oklahoma bombing, 9/11 and the success of the internet (in the spread of information).

They thought people would only use the net for porn and shopping (and they would use it for collecting data, and business).  They were wrong.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:17 | 5569066 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

it appears that yet another MoneyChanger institution is full of fucking shit...

fuck off...
DEATH TO THE MONEYCHANGERS.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 21:16 | 5570943 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

I don't believe anything anymore.....Putin is a stooge, Obama too.....all of them are. They taste tha banker cock and we get fucking shackles. My kids are fucked. 

 

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:17 | 5569068 semperfi
semperfi's picture

"when it gets serious, you have to lie"

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:16 | 5569071 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

So what affect did their rampant buying have in the price over the last 3 years? ... oh yeah... SocGen: French for squid.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:17 | 5569072 alexcojones
alexcojones's picture

Goldman Sucks still trying to drive the price down to their prediction

$1,057 by end of year according to GS.

Not. Gonna. Happen

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:18 | 5569082 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

Game plan now appears to be in simply getting the price below last years close of $1205.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:21 | 5569101 semperfi
semperfi's picture

"We are seeing premiums on PM being paid I never thought possible. However, people in the know pay what they know it is worth and not what the manipulated screen price is all about. We have de facto carte blanche to pay whatever it takes to get physical into our vaults. We do not care about screen prices any longer."

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 23:35 | 5571324 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

where is this quote from?

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:22 | 5569075 trader1
trader1's picture

Russian gold falling into FED trap?

makes you wonder why Merkel changed tune recently with Putin.

she wants her gold back? 

or, this is all BS as usual.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:18 | 5569081 pendragon
pendragon's picture

but what about all the UST...?

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 16:06 | 5569684 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

.

but what about all the UST...?

You'll find them buried in your litter box.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 17:32 | 5570107 pendragon
pendragon's picture

i think you'll find they've done pretty well unlike your short s&p position

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:19 | 5569084 Whalley World
Whalley World's picture

Putin: sell US Treasuries or our Gold?
Hmmm let me see, trust corrupt US Gov or Phyz
No brainer

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:21 | 5569108 pendragon
pendragon's picture

looks like he went for king dollar

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 16:04 | 5569673 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

yes you are just guessing

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 17:33 | 5570116 pendragon
pendragon's picture

i don't guess. i leave that to the clowns on this thread. ring any bells?

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:18 | 5569088 Took Red Pill
Took Red Pill's picture

Gold prices are totally being manipulated, as are oil prices, in order to hurt certain countries

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:18 | 5569092 Max Steel
Max Steel's picture

BS article  . There is no such information out there .

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:07 | 5569378 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

And if there was, exactly how the fuck would SocGen be in the know?

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:20 | 5569100 ARMDKNY
ARMDKNY's picture

LOL! Russia would sell there US Treasury holdings first.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 23:40 | 5571330 Quaderratic Probing
Quaderratic Probing's picture

http://www.treasury.gov/ticdata/Publish/mfh.txt

You will see that here. But they aren't.

Fri, 12/19/2014 - 00:49 | 5571456 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

Keep watching that.

When they do come back your ass is going to pucker so fast it will suck buttermilk out of a cow a mile away.

Fri, 12/19/2014 - 00:56 | 5571468 Quaderratic Probing
Quaderratic Probing's picture

Ireland holds more

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:19 | 5569104 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

russia selling gold for what dollars? euros? How fucking dumb does that sound?  

MAYBE THEY CAN TRADE IT FOR A GODDAM WALMART GIFT CARD!!!

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:23 | 5569126 CapitalistRock
CapitalistRock's picture

The implication is they are selling gold for rubles to support the ruble, but this is not happening. SocGen must be shorting gold, because Russia is very much long gold and they aren't going to sell s token amount of it to make themselves look weak. Is. Not. Happening.

Fri, 12/19/2014 - 00:52 | 5571459 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

Said it before, say it again. Head fake...and rope a dope.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:21 | 5569105 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

NYT: Putin is woman and pregnant

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:20 | 5569107 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

Reminds me of the Italian central bank a few years ago. "I'ma gonna sell my gold". "No I'm not". Bada bing.

 

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:21 | 5569113 ciscokid
ciscokid's picture

Pure bulls shit!!!!!!

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:22 | 5569114 CapitalistRock
CapitalistRock's picture

They did not spend the past few years accumulating and talking up gold to suddenly sell a token amount. Get real. This SocGen statement is opportune propaganda. Why is ZH printing it?

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:50 | 5569624 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

It's for the lolz.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 16:41 | 5569854 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Propaganda and Government math. Tyler is just pointing this out..

http://harveyorganblog.com/

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:22 | 5569115 Fun Facts
Fun Facts's picture

Has SocGen or any of the banks ever told the truth about anything? No, they talk their book to the donkeys.

So I'm going to go with socgen lying, or else Putin isn't nearly as smart as a lot of people think he is.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:24 | 5569127 Volaille de Bresse
Volaille de Bresse's picture

Putin leaks this lie so he can buy moar at a discount price next week?

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:24 | 5569131 T-NUTZ
T-NUTZ's picture

what country has half the population of the US and more than three times as many chess grandmasters?

dont just sit there looking stupid, son, it's your move...

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:39 | 5569225 Solio
Solio's picture

Yeah, but U.S. got Super Grand Masters! An Super Duper too!!

Fri, 12/19/2014 - 00:54 | 5571465 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

And Deep Blue!

Fri, 12/19/2014 - 00:58 | 5571470 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

And Doctor Evil Krugster and his evil cat spirit familiar.

Ivan better step back.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:27 | 5569142 Nue
Nue's picture

Don't sell it back your currency with it. Even if it's like 5,000 Rubles to the ounce any backing would instantly strengthen the currency.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:27 | 5569143 agent default
agent default's picture

Why would he sell gold in order to support the Ruble when all he has to do is back the Ruble with gold and gut fiat currencies all at once? 

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:39 | 5569216 Nue
Nue's picture

I suggested the same thing but on further thought. I think something like that could possible trigger WW3.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:36 | 5569509 lesterbegood
lesterbegood's picture

Good question.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:28 | 5569147 cigarEngineer
cigarEngineer's picture

I am not a Putin fanboy but you have to call out bullshit analysis when you see it. This article is dirt, the connections stretched, and implications dubious. This belongs in a tabloid.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:39 | 5569218 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Along with anything coming from Barclays, Douche Bank, JPM, HSBC, the Squid, etc....

These cocksuckers are all liars and thieves about everything.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:28 | 5569148 Silver_K-9
Silver_K-9's picture

Meet you at the Coin Dealer VLAD... ;0)

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:29 | 5569153 IndianaJohn
IndianaJohn's picture

Mercy! Did you see the ink scars on them Russian central bank officials? Shame!  http://johnhelmer.net/?p=12417

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:29 | 5569160 Loup Kib
Loup Kib's picture

"Putin" "selling" Russia's gold?  Certainly striking, at least.

To the layman I am, I must say the following I watched in November has been ringing many bells in my mind since : Central Bankers suppressing Russian economy:

 http://youtu.be/VT085isnyB0

Published on Nov 23, 2014

  Is there a purge in the making? About a "fifth column in Russia.  A pro-western cabal vs Putin and Russia. Possibility of a purge.  Russia Central Bank against Russia and Putin,  Etc. :

" Economic hardship is being created by the foreign-controlled Bank of Russia's monetary policies, to spread mass discontent and facilitate a Maidan in 2015 to remove Putin. So claims Evgeny Fedorov, citing the colonialist Central Bank law, established after Washington's victory in the Cold War, and the system of fifth-column levers, methodically operated to steer the revolution.

2:59 Foreign banks own the production in Russia.
8:23 Putin has no authority over the Central Bank.
13:56 Bank of Russia is legally a foreign-controlled Central Bank.
15:21 Road map to Maidan 2015.

English subtitles.
Russian original from Poznavatelnoe.tv : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckgRw...
http://poznavatelnoe.tv/fedorov_2014-...

Evgeny Fedorov is a Deputy of the State Duma and the coordinator of the National Liberation Movement for restoring sovereignty of Russia. http://eafedorov.ru/  "

 

 

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:31 | 5569180 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Declare Force Majeure and Nationalize the bank.

Rip off the Zionistas.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:43 | 5569243 Fun Facts
Fun Facts's picture

There is a rumor that he is planning to nationalize the CBR due to the allegations of internal sabotage. It's on the agenda for the Duma.

Some thought he might announce this at yesterdays address.

The CBR is currently bound with the Rothschilds in London. It's a satellite syndicate property.

Nationalization would make a lot of sense.

Had the USA nationalized the FED in about say 1914....the FED wouldn't have ended up owning the US government.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:22 | 5569449 noben
noben's picture

After watching the first YT clip, I realized immediately that it's a False (Redshield, Red Herring) Argument that a bank has to offer Money at close to zero % (0.1%) to invest in the country, and thus copy Western banks.

The reason the the Fed has been dropping rates, was to keep Bonds going, and to keep the cost of Servicing its Debt in control, while they keep expanding their Money Supply -- in the hopes of increasing the VoM.  Other Western banks, who bought the GS slop of Derivatives and got into Debt, had to follow suit.

By contrast, as long as Russia is not in real debt, they do NOT have to drop rates to zero as the "only" way to attract Investors to get loans.  There are other ways they can offer Credit to Investors (2-7 years) who wish to grow the economy.  If he can't figure it out, he does not deserve his job.  There are other mechanisms, but I'll offer just one example: Demand Equity (skin in the game) in businesses that Russian Investment Banks will make.  Bullish for stocks and economy.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 18:05 | 5570263 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Maybe not tonight, but one night soon, Russian tanks and Speznaz will surround the bank, surrounded by a full company of infantry.

The Enemy gang is now trapped at last, in their hideout. As they work the phones and computers, the front door caves in with a lound explosion.

Vlad walks throught the powder-smoke and announces to the cringing Banksters

"This Bank is now the Property of the Russian People. You are under arrest. Is the Lubyanka still open?

"Yes, Mr President.

"Take them there. We will deal with them later."

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:31 | 5569165 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Probably propaganda.

Now, Russia may put some Au on hold to China for backing them up, but with China already offering to assist, I doubt Russia would see a need to sell physical in your hands reserves.

Also dont forget the many yuan-swap setups.

China and Russia can do business w/o being forced to use dollars.

It simply does not meet a common-sense standard.

I you needed cash that bad, sell off USTs.

 

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:32 | 5569189 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

Sell your gold at 3 year lows or your USTs at 3 year highs... hmm....

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:41 | 5569236 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Exactly. And there's your proof that the whole story is bullshit.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:35 | 5569198 messystateofaffairs
messystateofaffairs's picture

Russia could commit energy to China as collateral, there is no need to expose their gold.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:31 | 5569166 Fuku Ben
Fuku Ben's picture

If he sells he'll sell it to China

Wait until he finds out China is working with the US to destroy him and his country

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:39 | 5569217 agent default
agent default's picture

Russia goes down and then the US is free to pivot to Asia and China goes down next.  Not happening.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:30 | 5569169 Counterpunch
Counterpunch's picture

somewhat... or just off-topic, but remember that plane?

 

The fact that the United States could not produce any satellite imagery, leaving aside the fuckery with the ATCT tapes and blackbox not being produced and Malaysia not being allowed to participate...  should have suggested to the reasonably intelligent that, ata minimum, the accusations were not, in fact, based on any evidence at all.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:30 | 5569173 CapitalistRock
CapitalistRock's picture

Here is what SocGen said about gold 60 ays ago:

 

"Please note," SocGen adds however, "we remain bearish on gold and maintain our recommendation to short gold outright."

 

So I think their "Some sources say it is possible Russia is selling gold" should be taken in the context of the above position.


Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:30 | 5569174 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Is this the same SocGen that is under investigation for money laundering and bribery?

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 16:09 | 5569709 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

.

Is this the same SocGen that is under investigation for money laundering and bribery?

Well, yeah, but that doesn't make them dishonest, does it?

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:32 | 5569175 messystateofaffairs
messystateofaffairs's picture

The source if this information means nothing. No matter what, don't sell gold to honor obligations in a game where there is no honor.  Putin would be making a serious error if this is true and he should know better.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:31 | 5569176 s2man
s2man's picture

Russia absolutely, positively, could be selling their gold.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 17:08 | 5569977 Mi Naem
Mi Naem's picture

5 geniuses (as of 13:30 Eastern) had your /sarc fly over their heads. 

LOL

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:31 | 5569178 jomama
jomama's picture

As several users stated before, why doesn't russia just buy gold on the COMEX and demand delivery?

I don't believe this story.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:31 | 5569181 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

SOCGEN Has Begun Soiling Its Pants, According to Russia.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:40 | 5569221 agent default
agent default's picture

Have they been shorting gold?  Don't know just asking.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:46 | 5569260 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

See the 3rd post from the top.  I don't know except there is a systemic fiat bankster short and they are part of the bankster system.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:59 | 5569333 fuu
fuu's picture

Pretty sure that is just a joke comment rephrasing the article the other way. No evidence that SocGen is short gold in that post.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:36 | 5569205 bankonzhongguo
bankonzhongguo's picture

Ask yourself this.

If it was the Fed and the US government trying to stabilize the dollar, would they be "selling" the gold in Fort Knox? (assuming of course it's still there.)

They have the Exchange Stabilization Fund.

Russia has China.

They each have ruble-yuan agreements.

China needs oil. 

Russia has oil.

Russia is a fascist state.

Would Hitler sell his gold? Nope. They dump it deep lakes.

If Russia can be manipulated like Ukraine and otherwise allow its gold to disappear to the ether, then more power to the TPTB.

I say Russia is a net buyer of physical gold.

Russia would be far better off by "liberalizing" their banks and bring some transparency to courts to attract global money laundering operations and high net worth folks.

But then again what makes Russia Russia is the 500lbs chip on their shoulder and their culture of endless suffering.

No reason to drink to excess if the world is not against you.

How's that Bitcoin treating you?

 

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:41 | 5569227 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

"If it was the Fed and the US government trying to stabilize the dollar, would they be "selling" the gold in Fort Knox?"

No.

Because we already know what they would do.  They did it in 1933.

They collected Gold from the public, melted it down, and started giving foreign dignitaries tours of the Gold vaults.

 

My question, predicated on the assertions that Russia was preparing to roll out a Gold Standard is this:

Why isn't Russia  doing that?

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:51 | 5569537 Renfield
Renfield's picture

<<Why isn't Russia  doing that?>>

The US effectively robbed its citizens in 1933. The government was broke, so it robbed its people of their real money. That was the first default of the United States.

Russia is not in the same position. Its government is not broke, and so I suppose it has no need to resort to these criminal measures.

Time will tell.

Fri, 12/19/2014 - 00:48 | 5571453 xavi1951
xavi1951's picture

bankonzhongguo -

I think you are onto something.  Isn't oil refered to as 'black gold'?  Could Russia be selling it's oil to China to stabilize the ruble and refer to it as gold?  Russia sells the oil to China, buys the gold for future currency wars.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:36 | 5569207 tumblemore
tumblemore's picture

Ah Vlad, you need to sort out your central bankers or they'll betray Russia to Wall St. like the Ukrainian bankers did.

 

Congress and Washington are bought. It's the banking mafia driving this whole thing.  The only way out for Russia before the banks start yet another (and possibly the last) world war is to take down the Wall St. banks one by one.

 

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:32 | 5569516 numapepi
numapepi's picture

If Russian bankers try to do what the Ukrainian bankers did.. they will commit suicide in an elevator, with a gun that disappears, on their way to a gala dinner in their honor.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:43 | 5569571 tumblemore
tumblemore's picture

Fingers crossed.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:38 | 5569213 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

Wouldn't bet on a sale, as it only worsens Russia's collateral for the Ruble.

 

BUT...

Russia will have to come clean.  EIther they have enough gold to form a Golden Ruble Backstop.... or they don't.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:40 | 5569219 Eternal Complainer
Eternal Complainer's picture

These banks are full of BUllShit when it comes to gold.
Just like the news media is full of shit!

Disinformation shillery!

I don't doubt the effort of the west to try and make Russia sell off its gold.

Banks are worms!
Never to be trusted on any level.
Especially a primary dealer that naked shorts PMs 24/7/365

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:40 | 5569231 neuronius
neuronius's picture

Even if Putin sold all of his gold, it wouldn't cause the price to go down.  Putin has physical.

We've seen time and again, the banksters control enough paper gold that the price will do whatever they tell it to do.

They might use Putin as an excuse to drive paper gold prices down, but Putin won't affect the price of gold whatsoever.  

 

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:47 | 5569265 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Exactly.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:53 | 5569294 Counterpunch
Counterpunch's picture

depends what you mean by 'price' - China is paying over spot for physical.

It might be time to start talking about the price of physical gold, right?

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:43 | 5569234 Panic Mode
Panic Mode's picture

What? Keep their US Trashuries and sell the 6000 years bubble gold. These bankers really put up a Jerry Springer show.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:45 | 5569253 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

I'm betting SoGen either has extensive Gold Short positions.  (Maybe this is the replacement manipulation for that previously done via the London Fix?)

OR

SoGen is on the hook to deliver a bunch of Gold that they don't have.

EITHER WAY

The Financial-House-Of-Cards End-Game is coming into view.

When everyone knows that the CBs and major gold exchanges haven't any gold to deliver it will be game-over for the monetary system.

THIS IS BIGGER THAN JUST RUSSIA.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:45 | 5569259 vyeung
vyeung's picture

GOLD Trade with CHINA/BRICS! Goods for GOLD, Gas/Oil for GOLD. Wow, that would be funny wouldn't it.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:50 | 5569279 SDRII
SDRII's picture

meanwhile the repatriated netherlands gov't is in trouble over a health bill.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:53 | 5569292 localizer
localizer's picture

It appears possible that SocGen is wrong.. it makes absolutely no sense for Russia to start selling gold at this point! I smell a rat.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:53 | 5569300 Bankster Kibble
Bankster Kibble's picture

Interesting that Putin said in his annual Q&A conference today that the Russian Central Bank should not be selling off its gold. 

 

I found the transcript here: http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/23406 and it was in the answer to Vyacheslav Terekhov from Interfax.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:23 | 5569460 Bankster Kibble
Bankster Kibble's picture

Found another quote in the same source, answering questions from another journalist.  Seems the RCB started to sell some gold but stopped, and Putin said he agreed with the RCB not to sell any more gold.

 

So SocGen may have been partly right - Russia did sell some gold but not enough to make predictions on.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:40 | 5569555 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

agreed

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:54 | 5569303 DOGGONE
DOGGONE's picture

Do you forsee increased visibility of these compelling track records?
http://patrick.net/forum/?p=1223928

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:57 | 5569317 ekm1
ekm1's picture

I am anti-Putin and I will never believe that Putin is selling gold on propaganda only, unless something more firm appears.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:16 | 5569424 Renfield
Renfield's picture

My thought too. (Although I am cautiously pro-Putin, until I see a reason to be otherwise.) Like you, I prefer solid EVIDENCE for my opinions.

This propaganda is an insult to the intelligence of Hedge readership.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:57 | 5569322 Loup Kib
Loup Kib's picture

In a sense it has been predicted for a while by Douma deputy Fedorov.  Russia Central Bank isn't controlled by Putin, according to Fedorov it's controlled by a pro-western, anti-Putin, cabal.  Fedorov talks of the possibility of a purge against them by Putin.  Qvv (Qui vivra verra).  This was published in November (long interview, English subtitles) :

http://youtu.be/VT085isnyB0

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:01 | 5569348 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

Well, if so, what is he waiting for? Nailgun delivery?

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 14:59 | 5569327 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

we lied to some folks

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:02 | 5569352 headhunt
headhunt's picture

As much as everyone is wishing that Russia has enough gold to backstop the Ruble it is not so.

Russia has a huge cash-flow problem and must sell in order to fund day to day operations.

Mother Russia is a very resource rich country but that will not fund the day to day operations, the oil is its cash-flow. More companies (and countries) die due to cash-flow problems than profit problems. Russia is rich in resources but poor in cash and subsequently investors.

Everyone understands the oil crash has kicked the legs out from under the Ruble but it also kicked its daily cash-flow in the balls.

Everyone wants paid - even communists.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:08 | 5569380 Catalonia
Catalonia's picture

"Russia is poor in cash" Do you even know what you are saying?

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:13 | 5569414 headhunt
headhunt's picture

Yes - do you even understand?

Fri, 12/19/2014 - 00:51 | 5571458 xavi1951
xavi1951's picture

Back to my earlier comment.  Sell 'black gold' to China, use money to buy real AU.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:05 | 5569363 Spectre
Spectre's picture

This was a pointless article on so many levels !

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:08 | 5569383 GoldSilverBitcoinBug
GoldSilverBitcoinBug's picture

I call BS on this one.

Wouldn't be more intelligent to sell USD in their reserve before selling XAU ?

Fuck me, there is 400 billions USD reserve, so there is no fucking need to sell gold at this time.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:10 | 5569395 Oil_City_News
Oil_City_News's picture

Merry Christmas...

Grandmaster Putin's Golden Trap

Dmitry Kalinichenko
November 23, 2014

Here is an interesting read posted in one of the the threads a few days ago:

http://www.gold-eagle.com/article/grandmaster-putins-golden-trap

And this is called "Checkmate", ladies and gentlemen. The game is over.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:31 | 5569495 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

fascinating. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I have wondered for a long  time now why the west supresses the price of gold. Doesn't this just make it easier for these BRICS countries to accumulate on discount?

I always thought 'gold is a barbarous relic' talks was just bullshit and they didn't really believe that, but perhaps they really do.

I also wonder what the significance of the 2 years meant in Putins speech. Is that about how long he figures it will be until the western collapse occurs?

I'm no fan of the zionazi PTB, but not a giant fan of vodka either..............

I guess time will tell.

 

 

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:41 | 5569559 Renfield
Renfield's picture

Oil City, the golden trap article has been up for some time.

It is excellent. It has resurfaced in these comments over and over for days.

Why does the Hedge not feature THAT article, instead of this SocGen drivel?

Tylers: It may be a slow news day, but some ANALYSIS even if a little late, would be appreciated.

You could start with this article, as Oil City and many other Hedgers have repeatedly referenced it. Try using the considerable resources of your readership, instead of running to the muppet mainstream, if you're out of ideas. There are some good suggestions in the comments here.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:12 | 5569412 cabernet
cabernet's picture

Seems strange that Russia would have to sell gold. They run a current account surplus of about 2% of GDP.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 16:32 | 5569821 dreadnaught
dreadnaught's picture

and their debt is like 1/50 of ours: $675 Billion vs $18 TRILLION-and maybe no Gold stored in Ft Knox

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:16 | 5569421 CHX
CHX's picture

Any abstruse rumor seems a welcome reason to come up with some gold-negative headline these days. Bottom is near ?

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:18 | 5569436 Q-Q-Q
Q-Q-Q's picture

When your short position shows no justification......start a rumour......but make sure it contains a caveat.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:19 | 5569448 FXD
FXD's picture

I don't think extremely corrupt regimes such as Putin's Russia historically favoured gold-back currency. Quite the opposite in fact.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:23 | 5569467 alrightee_then
alrightee_then's picture

More garbage reporting on ZH

How many MSM outfits create articles that claim "maybe, possibly, could be, probably, might" etc

Is the media in North Korean this bad? I doubt it

 

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:42 | 5569573 Renfield
Renfield's picture

I dunno...I think they might have actually achieved a tie with North Korea on this one!

Usually I tolerate the occasional substandard article without comment, just leaving a "1" on the voting bar and leaving it at that.

But considering the timing and prominence of this one, it really does take the cake. I am hungry for REAL news and analysis at this time of great danger, and muppetry is an extreme disservice just now.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:25 | 5569474 Q-Q-Q
Q-Q-Q's picture

When you are talking about corrupt regimes that's a lot of boxes to be ticked. What we are talking about is levels of subtlety.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:26 | 5569478 GodHelpAmerica
GodHelpAmerica's picture

You don't buy an asset one day, only to sell it the next. It would also be wise to sell all dollars, exhausting that option first, before touching your gold. Selling dollars also helps exchange rate weakness. Gold doesn't.

Also having gold in your reserves helps support your currency, psychologically.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:34 | 5569526 FXD
FXD's picture

"selling dollars"...Oh yeah, that would be fun to see Russia buying imports (food, TVs and all the stuff) with gold (having sold all the dollars):)

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 16:43 | 5569863 dreadnaught
dreadnaught's picture

we need a minimum age limit and IQ before allowing folks such as yourself post here...say 21 years old and a 100 IQ   throw in a couple years of college (not that that will change anything)

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:28 | 5569481 pendragon
pendragon's picture

haha can't wait for this to be substantiated and for the cult of putin to transform into turd in the swimming pool

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:28 | 5569486 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

I hope he sells. I hope it crashes gold. When it does, I will feast on physical. As will millions of others, thus the price will snap back .

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:31 | 5569494 pendragon
pendragon's picture

that is the right philosophy

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:37 | 5569491 Pullmyfinger
Pullmyfinger's picture

Given the blatant absurdity of articles such as these, I'm increasingly inclined to suspect that ZH might just be some clever propaganda mouthpiece. For a diametrically opposed point of view however, I would recommend, ''The Last Move Before Checkmate...'" which describes the possibility that the Shanghai Gold/Silver Exchange will soon be announcing that it has run out of silver --the true achilles heel of the Western banking cabal, thus provoking an immediate and dramatic, overnight rise in the price of gold and silver and, as the dominoes begin to fall, no doubt a great many other commodities as well...

I have no doubt that the Russians are perfectly well aware that such a possibility is inevitable and, in any case, rapidly approaching no matter who initiates it.

You know, after watching all this far too closely since 2008, I've only lately begun to feel increasingly unnerved as I ponder the full consequences of all this. I Do Not think that a full-scale physical war is in the cards, because this end game surrounding precious metals will certainly vaporize the American economy, and thus automatically dismantle its global military structure; however, tens of millions will face starvation, with all the attendence turmoil and violence that dire circumstances always create.

True, I'll come through this as relatively wealthy, but its cold comfort.

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