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Just What Is China Buying?
Something strange is going on in China. On one hand, as the chart below shows, China's trade surplus is growing and growing, and just hit record highs. In other words, China is - on paper - receiving record amounts of foreign currencies in exchange for its (mostly) goods exports.
That much is clear in the Chinese (record) trade balance chart below:
Yet on the other hand, a chart from Deutsche Bank shows something very peculiar: even as China's foreign reserves should be rising, they are not only dropping, but just suffered their biggest quarterly drop in the past decade!

This validates what the TIC data has shown recently, namely that China has not only not been adding to US Treasury but reduced its TSY holdings to the lowest since February 2013, and that contrary to what some have alleged, China is not using Belgium as an offshore-based conduit for Treasury accumulation.
A bigger question is just what is China buying "off the books" to account for this reserve decline, amounting to about $100 billion in Q3, or is this merely due to even more off the books "capital flight" as some has speculated. Or is China indeed actively buying commodities - either as shown here previously for Commodity Funding Deals involving gold or in physical bulk, perhaps to quietly fill up its new Strategic Petroleum Reserve (see "Record Oil Tankers Sailing to China Amid Stockpiling Signs") - and bypassing the official ledger in doing so. If so, which commodities is China buying, and how big will the foreign reserve plunge be in the fourth quarter.
For the answer to the latter we will check back in a little over a month when the "official" data is released. As for the former, one can only speculate.
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Africa.
They would buy the Africans, too, but that is no longer politically correct, so they just rent them.
Well, what were they buying in 2012 when foreign reserves dropped?
I would never buy an african
http://y2u.be/VI6tBwVjyOY
The banksters bought an african and they're still happy as a clam.
Oh shit! That made me laugh! :)
US Green Cards and high end real estate.
The Answer Is AU, Bitchez!
I.E. Why Hasn't China Reported Its GOLD Reserves In Many Years???
...Mass Hoarding On The Cheap...
Ruble
correct in spirit. chinese reserves are (contrary to popular belief) not all in USD-denominated assets. as the USD rally accelerated in the 3q, the USD value of the assets decreased by a small fraction. redo the charts denominated in, say, EUR and you'll see that they have still been growing.
other than that, they always sell what has risen and buy what has fallen. so likely they have bought or contracted for energy, BRICS currencies for reserve and Asia D Bank purposes, and a variety of commodities. likely they have sold treasuries and various developed market equities.
basically, they haven't been doing anything out of the ordinary. but the fact that they do prudent things as a government, is quite extraordinary in this world of inept governments.
I have it on good faith the the Chinese are buying and importing millions of women to take home as wives.
I kinda of doubt that. There are too many ex-wives unspoken for, even with QE type incentives. And with no guaranteed refund policy, the deal ain't ever gonna happen.
"Just What Is China Buying?"
Answer: Time.
China is insulated from the rest of the world.
Not only the Chinese have things under control domestically but they have very wisely started diversifying and investing outside China over the last couple of years and we have seen major IPO's, major bond issues and major asset purchases worlwide without any disrimination to any region, religion, caste, creed, colour etc. (Their motto is simple: if you are in trouble: Call China).
Hence, all profits of Volvo, Peugeot, Motorola, AMC, Nexen, real estate in Toronto, NYC, Italy, US, Australia, Canada, Malaysia etc will now be flowing back into China which was not the case barely 5 years ago.
There is no logical reason why Chinese stock markets should crash.
I would suggest Zerohedge to compare stock market capitalisation of Shanghai with NYSE or FTSE or DAX and show it here. Let us see the reality and not just the index performance over a period of time.
While the NYSE market cap has risen from USD 11 trillion to USD 17 trillion between 2003 to 2013 which is a multiplier of 0.58.
The multiplier of Shanghai, Shenzen and various other Asian markets are 10 times more. And in many cases, these stock markets did not even exist a decade ago like Dubai or Saudi or Vietnam etc.
Kazakhstan has gone from USD 2,426m to USD 26,228m which is a multiplier of 9.81 between 2003 to 2013.
Shenzen is a multiplier of 8.49.
Philippines is 8.37.
Colombo is 5.93
and Shanghai is 5.93.
While Deutsche Borse was a multiplier of 0.79, Athens was actually negative and our friends at Nasdaq were 1.13 despite all the noise of Apple and FB.
All this indicates that while NYSE and Nasdaq have indeed grown a bit but the others are rising at such a fast speed that NYSE/Nasdaq/FTSE/DAX don't even have time to lick their wounds. The speed is simply ten times greater! May the force be with you!
The data was until year end 2013 so am sure today these numbers for Western economies are lower while Shanghai has risen!
Comparing market cap of Shanghai to BRIS is also unfair to BRIS mostly because S Africa's currency has declined 100% in last 5 years, India has declined 50% in last 5 years and Brazil too has declined about 60% in 4 years. While China's currency has APPRECIATED in last 5 years from about 7.00 to 6.22 today! Poor BRIS! It is not China's fault that BRIS cannot stand up on their feet because they aligned themselves to Western propaganda at most times in their economic history due to their inherent weaknesses, awful corruption and allowing western corporations into their countries and let profits flow back to US and EU. The same cannot be said for China. Ditto for Russia, which is why they are in a bit of a turmoil at present time, thanks to western intervention.
Indices alone dont make no sense whereas the market capitalisation shows the breadth and the depth of the market and the fact that wealth is being distributed more equally and to more citizens thus creating robust employment as well as robust tax revenues for the Govt and hence more stability and not less stability.
All data comes from here: http://www.world-exchanges.org/statistics/annual-query-tool
There is indeed a method to the madness of China buying the rest of the world!
Amazing
They're stacking
And growing like crazy.
Hmm.. Are they growing because they're stacking, or stacking because they're growing?
Either way you cut it Roger...they are growing...doesn't matter why. They are stacking because only they have the $$$ to stack. They are also growing due to the same and now they dont have a smaller base like they did a decade ago, but is 5 times larger in GDP and 10 times larger over 2 decades. These are spectacular numbers at a time when the entire world is struggling since 2008.
They were a nobody 30 years ago, smaller than Germany, Russia, UK or India individually. Today, China is larger than all of these 4 combined. They worked very hard for 30 years to get here.
Not only they are the uncrowned king but they will keep stacking so high, that the rest of the world combined will be smaller than them! Just give them another decade! But if all of us keep slowing the way we are and keep selling everything to the Chinese, they might be bigger than all of us even before this decade is out.
And then the question will be: And, now what? We wish we wouldn't have pissed the Chinese the way we did in 2014!
let me guess...... german bullshit about china what SOCGEN FROG BULLSHIT IS ABOUT RUSSIA ????
"They worked very hard to get here?" Seriously? WHAT WASN'T HANDED TO THEM, THEY STOLE. The Chinese aren't some miracle workers, western bankers {with the full complicity of the politicians} financed the entire thing. Why marvel at the cities that seemed to spring up over night in China, just look at American cities {especially the ones that were chief manufacturing centers} hollowed out, a shell of what they were just thirty five years ago. All that was ONCE here, was moved over there by the multinationals. Wasn't that long ago you couldn't pick up a magazine or watch a TV program where they weren't selling investment opportunities in China, and people ate it up like apple pie. Investment for them, DISINVESTMENT for us. What fools, they helped to finance their own demise. Don't get the idea that China is mighty enough to survive a global financial crisis, because they won't. Japan will be the first, then Europe, then China. HOW CAN THE FACTORY OF THE WORLD SURVIVE WHEN IT'S CUSTOMERS ARE NOT SENDING ORDERS BECAUSE THEY ARE BROKE? Chinese invincibility my ass. What will happen there will be nothing short of a hell on earth.
I fogot to report here what I bought. I bought back my April '15 Feeder Cattle Futures Contracts @209 on Thursday; that I sold short on Oct. 9th.; and reported here at the time; at a price of 232. Profit-$34,500. The chart is posted on the CME page; it'll be a good example for you to study.
Stealing has been the hallmark of all empires previous to the Chinese. The Spanish stole and became rich. The French stole from Africa and became rich. Then the British stole from Africa, India and China and became rich. Then the Americans came along and stole the land from the Red Indians and used USD, defence, Tech and banking to suck the money from the rest of the world.
Now it is the turn of the Chinese but at least they are decent enough not to kill people while owning them. They simply own them, all of them, every single one of us. Even Zuckerberg stole from his 3 buddies, various billionaires today have lots of stories all over the world. Stealing is not wrong (this is what todays moral code has become sadly), just dont get caught doing it. If you have the power to avoid investigations, greater the glory to you, just look at Corzine or Dimon. You dont have to go too far to talk of stealing especially if you live in Amrika!
Exports are two faceted thing. We need shirts and shoes and all things Chinese, not because they come out just cheap from China, but despite the labour cost increases over the last 2 decades, we still build factories out there, but now of luxury cars, TV's and computers. You see, we have gone up the value chain, we produce higher value goods in China today than we did a decade or two ago. Remember we all send USD 120bn approx every year to build factories in China which is over USD 2.5 trillion in 2 decades, of our money!
If the Chinese go broke, it will be because we wont pay them. But they are smarter than that. They allow FDI not FII so if we stop buying or manufacturing in China, then we will go bust first but they wont, because they wont have a loss. The factory will still be there in China built with our money on the land they sold to us and they only lose the tax revenue and have some unemployment. We all know what happens when Spain and Greece etc went bankrupt, they sold the factories, so China wont lose even if we stop buying or making stuff there.
Just read these 2 article and that too from IMF and you will get a good sense of what China is upto;
Sino Shift
Is China rebalancing? Yes, but with Chinese characteristicsThey are insulated from our problems which is why their GDP, currency, inflation, interest rates, sovereign ratings, total employment, real estate prices, size of their banks, size of their oil companies, infra spending etc have all risen consistently for the last 2 decades without as much as hiccup even when the 2001 Tech crash came or the 2008 GFC! So, how do you explain that, if not insulation which has just become even better since 2008?
You also make a point about disruption in US about relocating factories from Detroit and other places to China. Well, the Chiense never forced anyone. The selfish CEO's will always do what is best for them and their shareholders, which is to reduce costs and increase profits. Americans and their politicians have no one to blame but themselves for taking the decision to relocate to China or elsewhere. Every businessman has a right to relocate wherever it suits them best, some opened car factories in Canada due to the cheap Loonie, some went to China, some to India....
You cannot blame the Chinese for having the cheapest labour force on the planet. In our western consumer oriented farce materialistic societies: We want good shit at cheap prices and yet make a profit! That's it!
No one did right or wrong here, but in the end, the Chinese won!
Logging in to make the following comment: China is not insulated from the rest of the world. They are being victimized and lured into malinvestment. Central banking has artificially suppressed interest rates, making all of these foreign chinese investments look attractive when, in fact, they are largely unproductive. Let's take a common sense approach. How can it possibly make sense that investment returns would be higher in a developed country than in an undeveloped one? China has plenty of internal areas that are ripe for developments that would improve productivity and earn real returns. The fact that this investment has been misdirected into foreign investment will be revealed when the tide goes out and we'll all see who has been swimming naked. If the Chinese were smart they would focus on increasing the productivity of their own natural resources (of which they have many) rather, for example, buying strip malls and commercial office space in the USA. You may recall that this is the same mistake the Japanese made in the 1980s.
Thisson,
Your assumptions / information is incorrect.
China is barely investing abroad. They have a GDP of close to USD 10 trillion and they are investing just USD 100bn overseas as of 2013 and was USD 88bn in 2012. This not a lot of 'malinvestment'.It is barely 1% of their GDP and was much much lower until 3-4 years ago.
Secondly, they are buying productive assets like energy assets, building ports, some profitable hotels and iconic real estate, movie theatres, car manufacturers, banks, insurance companies aside from lending to receive returns on cash instead of buying silly US treasuries. They need to have a little bit of everything while they also have a large land mass which they are rapidly developing at the same time. Building 100 airports,bullet trains, having 7 of the busiest sea ports in the world, nuclear plants, infra etc needs more than we can imagine.
I believe thay are doing enough internally and after that whatever chump change is available are using to further their interests abroad, for example in Latin America and Africa.
Japan could not buy assets aside from real estate because there was no distress like this time which has been a golden opportunity for China. Japan does not have land so they could not develop their own country much further hence their percentage of overseas allocation was far greater than 1%. China, on the other hand, is buying 'real' assets and not just buildings. China just bought the largest bank of Portugal's investment bank for half a billion dollars. China bought the largest ever Canadian energy company in 2012. China bought Volvo as well as half of IBM. These are not realty releated investments which is what is different from Japan.
Plus the size of China is much much larger due to their sheer population.
These 2 reports should help provide you much more detailed information.
One is from the UN. http://unctad.org/en/PublicationsLibrary/wir2014_overview_en.pdf
The other is what the US Senators get to see and of course does not make it to the media. http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL33534.pdf
They grew for two decades because - 20 years ago they paid people 8 cents an hour. Today it's $1.50 another 20 years to go!
Yes, large parts will not be suitable for human habitation. That is already the case but it's not completely visible, since it's not valued proportionally. (upside down)
Do you think i could make a few bucks off my ex-wife?
I think those are a reverse COD when she gets there you pay them!!
Sounds good lets send them all our gold diggers hopefully we can recoup the shiny metal and they can keep the women..
Food. They're probably just hungry. Everybody knows ya get hungry after Chinese take-out, man. I mean WTF there's like now what a billion of them? Their economy's been improving lately. That's like a lotta groceries, late night run on hamburgers, whatever.
I had to laugh at the takeout thing. But yeah.. food, water, soil, clean air.
How can I sell the Chinese my wife?
Don't know if there any weight to this, but Harvey Organ was saying China was running low on industrial silver. So maybe they're restocking. Man that would be great for me if true.
He also made the typical insane price predictions by December, and we are 19 days in. Got a ways to go to $200 silver and $3000 gold. Good luck Harvey, and anyone dumb enough to listen to you.
Those silly price predictions keep the metalbugs warm and fuzzy at night. The 5-year graph has shown otherwise, but I'm just a "paperbug" and don't know what I am talking about, lol.
I'm just a "paperbug" and don't know what I am talking about, lol.
Apparently so. Or perhaps you're just wrapping yourself in the wrong graph to keep yourself warm at night.
You could try the "Best performing asset in the past ten years" graph.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing/gold/7375415/Gold-is-decades-best-performing-investment.html
And housing was the second best.
“The first thing I did was make a mistake. I thought I had understood capitalism, but what I had done was assume an attitude—melancholy sadness—towards it. This attitude is not correct.” — Donald Barthelme, “Religion and The Rise of Capitalism”
WOW. Barthelme is my God. Have all of his collections of short stories. I don't know If you've read any of them but try "the flight of pigeons from the palace." Cool/...
http://www.1857.no/1857/projects/the-flight-of-pigeons-from-the-palace/12
Correction:
Donald Barthelme wrote “The Rise of Capitalism” (a must read)
http://www.jessamyn.com/barth/capitalism.html
“Religion and The Rise of Capitalism” was written by Richard Henry "R. H." Tawney
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._H._Tawney
By the way THX 1178, I just discovered Donald Barthelme; but impressive insights… And the quote above is his.
Ladies and gentlemen,
Capitalism main theorists preach the promotion of ignorance amongst the masses and their courtiers as virtue.
And don’t take my word for it, ever. What is required for you to see, it is for you to be honest with yourself.
Ditto. We keep hearing about how gold is rising because of demand in China and India. Well, what about when China and India crash? That also is supposed to push up gold? And then we hear from Mish Shedberg and company that you should buy gold to weather a deflation OR an inflation...
The long and short of it is, any analyst with a buy gold advertisement should be taken with a grain of salt. If someone's selling it, that means they must not think it's such a super investment.
That said, what I'm betting on is deflation, then devaluing -> inflation. Keeping everything you got in one place with blind faith is not likely to turn out well.
Reserves, right? So if you buy $400 Billion in Russian oil, then the counter in which it's denominated in drops by 60%, are you counting that as a strategic reduction, or accurate mark-to-market of a long-dated asset that has suffered a massive FX shift?!?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-18/chinas-largest-conglomerate-buy...
No need to worry! We got Belgium to buy our debt now! We're doing just fine! /sarc
If Europe fails to buy our debt, than I am sure Africa will buy it! /Sarc too
Detroit? lol
Hey fuck you. I'm in these burbs. One man's shithole..well... is another man's shithole. Stop making me fell bad, asshole.
Heh. Sorry 'bout your shithole......
You CAN move you know.
They haven't implemented movement controls.....yet.....
Being born in a shithole is one thing......
Choosing to stay in one..... well, your on you own there.....
Graduated from Belleville HS 1984....after summer school for blowing off half my senior year....LOL
Left soon thereafter and never looked back. Love those Holland beaches though.
My sincere apologies.
Oblammie said " If you like your shit hole, you can keep your shit hole. "
Looks like he is fixing to fuck you out of Detroit, even, based on his track record.
"We shit-holed some folks."
Did I do that correctly? :-)
then get the fuck out mother fucker.
shit hole is shit hole, period. you black or what...
what is china buying
sure hope it's not
polar bear testicles....
You're all wrong. They're buying underpants.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO5sxLapAts
.
Until they're done with him... Then he is just a ham.
Whattya know...veggie spam
what if their foreign reserves are a phoney number? all bullshit. anybody or country holding treasuries is compliant and/or the enemy...
Can we believe any numbers out of China?
Buying Africa is easy, making it politically stable is a different thing altogether.
Why would they want it politically stable? Then it would just cost more.
Divide and rule has worked so well in Africa.
You are called Hutu, and you are called Tutsi. Go fight each other...instead of fighting us.
"How about youz and him fight?"
Conveniently, we have guns to sell to both sides.
"Equinsu Ocha! Equinsu Ocha!"
He say you a White Devil.
better be white devil than black angel.
considering jesus was a black lesbian, look what they did to her with nails and hammer....
.
...and don't worry if you don't have enough cash with you. We will be more than happy to finance your purchase.
...secured by your land, and when you can't pay we'll come in with bigger guns to take our stuff back and move you off our land.
Ended all stories in history.
True story fellow in British SAS told me there was a bunch of locals they wanted shot.. But they were breaking no laws.. So they sold them a bunch of guns and ammo and incited them to fire.. Taking cover they simply counted the shots as they knew how much ammo they had sold them.. When they ran out they were summarily taken out..
Perfidious Albion. Again.
Regiment don't announce themselves.
Three sides, really. The UN 'Peacekeepers' need to be armed and equipped, too, so they can go in when the worst of the slaughter is done and make things safe for corporate looting.... err, sorry... democracy.
"Divide and rule" works pretty well in America too.
You are called Yankee, and you are called Confederate, or my new favorite; you are "black" president and the others are "white" president(s). Go fight each other ... instead of fighting us.
You are called liberal (D) and you are called conservative (R), now go fight each other over minor social issues, instead of standing united against tyranny, while we rob you blind.
I would like to give Hannity a swift kick in his tiny sack,
I would love to have an actual debate with Sean on the air with a fair moderator.
I would even debate either of them on a blog, just me against either of them and their entire brain trust.
I could never debate Linda on the air. Unhealthy. The sound of her words, her pandering and rhetoric, it causes me to have fits and seizures.
It has been decades since either of them have had to face ANY intelligent adversary to call them on all of the tremendous propaganda and divisive bullshit they spew over the federal airwaves on a daily basis.
Fuck, if you made any sense, you'd surely lose.
Hannity is a RINO getting paid to litter the two team banking scam division.
Hannity is a Satanist. He has mastered the use of Body Language to the point of where it has become Second Nature to communicate his lies and deceit. As a true psychopath he feels no guilt or remorse.
He follows Satanism's only law, "Do as thou wilt."
Hannity is a dolt. Haven't listened to him in 3 years. He doesn't represent the conservative class voter. He's another Glenn Beck burning in flames.
Z-NPR with all their radio z-journalists with their condescnding z-perspective. Terry z-Gross what a vile person.
Somebody needs to force feed those vegans at National Peoples Radio a bunch of red meat.
It does not matter if you give a good debate, these people use neuro lnguistic programming and that is all Americans respond to these days that is why they watch TV all the time how else would they know what to think.
Sad, but true. America, Aus too ... zombie patches. Critical thinking outlawed zones.
Hannity lost me the other day when he said torture was just fine. I know I know the blue pill takes some time to pass through your system...
-
ZH is so enlightened on Divide and Rule...lemme just hop in the time machine back to all the ni**er bashing in the old Ferguson threads.
Not only Africa . Ukraine !!!
http://www.channel4.com/news/china-ukraine-farmland-food-security-invest...
Got coupons ?
Free front row seats?
China seems to be "stabilize" things (for better or for worse) until we start messing about and trying to dislodge them.
Well... they could also buy Ukraine or the interesting parts, where the fields and farms are.
Russia has helped drive down the RE prices.
Then, what they are really buying is....cookies? Apparently, that's all it takes to draw in some Nazis.
They don't even rent them.
They just fly in their own to work.
"They would buy the Africans, too, but that is no longer politically correct, so they just rent them." Hahaha LOL. I had to log in just to upvote your comment.
Also a terrible investment. Obsolete Farm Equipment doesn't hold its value well, and becomes violent and parasitic.
LAVA? Just Kidding
The Chinese are investing heavy in Kenya, by buying their roads.
Why buy gold that is actually tungsten when you can buy the actual land where diamonds come from!
That's probably the answer.
I do know that they are purchasing the most expensive real estate in King County, Washington, USA (in Bill Gates' neighborhood, the Eastside).
Also, bet they are buying up Sony stock?????
is there a doubt what they are buying....Eminis!!!!
Another LOL today. TY!
Another LOL today. TY!
WHAT ARE THEY BUYING?
Answer: Vertical Integration - via asset and company purchases, loans with strings, and government joint ventures - Dams in Mekong Delta with Cambodia / Vietnam, African Metals, Australian Iron mines and the ultimate JV with Russia - 9 time zones and $100 Trillion in undeveloped resources of everything you need for the next 200 years on a contiguous border - impossible for USA to fuck with as in: Straits of Malacca. All other countries in BRICS see clearly how China has Russias back and they want that relationship as well - The USA is never to be trusted.
They are deploying $$ dollar reserves quietly while US puts its money in military bases and WAR and builds the debt base beyond $18 Trillion and murders people everywhere
Russia has virtually no governmenrt debt $45 Billion - yes "B" all the rest is corporate debt - $250 Billion keyed to cash flows - low EBITDA to Debt even at the low point in commodity cycle.
The Poseur as POTUS controlled by Zbig and his Sons and the people on 65th street & Madison are dillusional unless they are willing to go Nuclear.
The 90% of Americans who Jonathan Gruber calls: - STUPID - are not just stupid but "exceptionally" stupid which is why they are Exceptionally Paranoid and Exceptionally Blood Thirsty - this is coming soon to an enormous clusterfuck!
+1 million.
Always great posts and sadly so true.
"exceptionally" well said
I think we have to ask the FED that questions.
They're buying that tradition stuff.
How barbaric!
You can't eat it but you can sleep with it.
They are buying US companies and real estate as well.
Someone has to pay the fucking taxes, no? Even if it is an asset, you gotta pay, dude, you always have to pay the master his vig. Good plan.
Politicians?
Being that Africa has some resources, makes politicians to be a bad bet. They're expensive and pretty much owned by someone else.
IF the district of critters was a new IPO, I would shart it with both hands and a plunger.
One would have an easier time mathmatcially calculating the existance of various religious gods than to try to make sense of any number reported by China.
We're relying on Chinese bookkeeping here which makes things just a tiny bit iffy....
yeah 1 billion tiny bits
because USA bookkeeping is so pristine
Who needs book-keeping at all?? Fuck book-keeping.
That is new FASB policy.
Lots of 'Murica is for sale. They buy gold and real estate, especially the high end stuff. This is in the news all the time.
They have been offered the Brooklyn Bridge but so far haven't returned my calls.
Hookers n booze?
JUST the other day, I was told what was finally wrong with the human body: the SNACK BAR is TOO CLOSE THE OUTHOUSE.
In other words, our pussies are just bit too cozy with our assholes! WOW, what a revelation.
In the big picture of earth,then just who are the pussies and who are the assholes?
JUST the other day, I was told what was finally wrong with the human body: the SNACK BAR is TOO CLOSE THE OUTHOUSE.
In other words, our pussies are just bit too cozy with our assholes! WOW, what a revelation.
In the big picture of earth,then just who are the pussies and who are the assholes?
I nominate you for both.
not enuff of their own chinese made shit thats for sure it's all at wally-world cosco homo depot and lowes ...etc. etc.
This a just a guess, but it wouldn't surpise me if the Chinese are able to buy higher quality items produced in China than the crap they ship over here. I say that as someone who has designed/engineered over a half dozen items that W-M has sold or is currntly selling. W-M will take a good design and strip it down just to save a few penny turning it into junk. Call it a 'business model'.
Additionally, when I went to work/live in Japan in 1990 I was surprised at the amount of consumer products available to the Japanese that didn't hit the US markets for between 3 and 8 years later. Some 1990 Japanese cars sold in America were in fact 1987 models in Japan.
Back then the US was secure in it's belief everything we had was state of the art and we were 'exceptional'. We weren't, we were just being sold a bill of goods back then. Nothing's changed along those lines.
So that is why it wouldn't surprise me if the average consumer over in China has access to quality goods other than the crap they sell us, but still carries a Made in China label.
If anybody knows the real story I'd be interested in hearing it. I had no idea back in the day when everything was 'Made in Japan' we were getting the left-overs. It was eye opening.
The upper echelons buy their own food at seperate stores, not available to the general population
For one thing, they cover the shipping costs by cheapening the product. Something I've noticed on Youtube, that get's my goat, is the pressurized, fogging fire extinguishers being sold outside of the US. The manufacturers don't even seem to have US subsidiaries! I suspect they may be shut out intentionally. Part of the Fascist system. possibly.
Here's what I'm talking about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_NsBZ7oXok
Cool technology. I thought that misting everything would reduce oxygen to the fire. Very smart.
Re. Chinese Cheap Crap. Its in the spec. If the spec calls out low quality for low cost, so it is.
Insightful conjecture!
I just knew there was more antifreeze in that bottle of claret I bought at the local Liquor Snatch than there was in that whole magnum I drank in Bordeaux!
Where China's concerned, that is CERTAINLY the case. A colleague's parents own microelectronic manufacturing facilities in Shenzen Province, and have significant (i.e. millions of $$) interests in OWON, and Uni-Trend.
The stuff they sell to Chinese Companies is NOT the stuff they sell overseas. Their home market expects (and gets) excellent value for money (as anyone who has worked with the Chinese must surely know). They KNOW that the West is more concerned with cost than quality (unless paying for the latest "fashionable name" brand), so they know they can get away with supplying substandard (and so cheaper) product. It obviously sells, so it's obviously a workable Business model.
Thanks for that confirmation, (as well as the other posters). I've been away from product development for over a decade and overseas sourcing wasn't in my pay grade. Just the design and engineering stateside.
But I have long suspected the Chinese had a taste for products that were a few levels above the People of W-M. Just never followed my curiosity until late. It stands to reason they would want decent products just like the Japanese which I experienced first-hand.
And your 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' observation is spot on. I bet Americans would be pissed if they knew the mark-ups on the crap they buy, and even more pissed if they found out that in many cases for just a few pennies more applied on the quality side they could actually have quality products. And I mean pennies.
But the current 'planned obsolescence' strategy employed by corporations precludes us from seeing such products. It's bad for the bottom line.
I hope we can get the magic back one day. I'm just not going to hold my breath.
I suspect the planned obsolescence concept is the ONLY thing that supports the Western retail "Bottom Line". We see this in white goods in particular - "energy efficient" fridges that might last 10 years if you're lucky (in comparison with the earlier models that lasted 25 years ++). I don't buy in to the "the compressors / fittings / etc nowadays work so much harder" crap - I rather suspect it's deliberate "failure engineering" to ensure the punter is parted from his cash earlier.
Because of the Japanese ruling that trucks can only be used (economically) for a relatively few years, Australia benefits from this "secondhand truck" market in that we can get very good Import RVs for instance, for a lot less than "locally produced" prices, e.g. via http://www.exportnippon.com/ all of which are considerably better-built (and specified) than anything local. Another colleague's got a Mitsubishi Vega through these people, and it is a VERY good deal for a VERY nice RV. Only available "new" in Japan - which supports your original assertion - their "local market" is certainly well ahead of the rest of us.
The last 'new' refridgerator I bought was in 2002. It stopped working in 2005. Three long years later. Ironically, a buddy with a 1946 Chris Craft still had the original fridge in it. He was a 'live-aboard' and that was a 50 year old working fridge when he sold the boat in the mid '90s.
I like your term "failure engineering". It reminds me of a story an engineer I worked with told me about his time working for a power tool company. The kind of tools sold at the big box stores. (I won't name names, but it was a company like Black and Decker or Skill, etc). When he went through orientation they told him not to over engineer a certain product line they sold.
He was basically told, "Look, we design these tools for Harry Homeowner and he's not going to use these more than 5 times before the warrenty is out. So don't over build them. If they want good tools they can buy our Professional line." Of course they don't use that in their advertising, they just lead the consumer to believe it's a good tool because of the brand name.
And yes, they made that line in China.
lol my dad looked absolutely shocked when I told him if I ever needed a major medical procedure I'd go to Japan or some other foreign country, better docs and way cheaper.
Thailand. Especially for joint replacement surgery.
Excellent care from people who genuinely care. Amazing surgical facilities (as in "whole OR Wall" displays, state of the art theatre hardware, and certainly state of the art continuous theatre environmental monitoring, so when they say the air is sterile - they have real time continuous data to support this).
VERY low incidence of post-operative infection, 'cause they also concentrate on the "invisible" services - Hospitals are kept CLEAN (as in VERY Clean, especially the usually - forgotten out of the way areas, e.g. stairwells, fire escapes, etc.), so less need to use antibiotics, which in turn helps to reduce the probability of locally developed resistance. Very careful pre-op. patient screening too - if you're infected or a carrier, they fix your "problem" before you are let in to the Ortho. Wing!
Commonsense isn't it. Lacking in the West I note.
Anyone know the price differences versus the USA?
I know someone who had a heart stent done in Spain because that type of stent was not available in the USA. He said the cost was better and the care was outstanding.
Freddie, the cost is so cheap, its mind-bogling how they manage to profit. Most medical tourists head here
https://www.bumrungrad.com/en/m/home
I like this place.
http://www.saintlouis.or.th/ Oops, no english language website!?!
Thailand is not perfect, but its so much better than any place else. The ancient culture they've managed to perserve against great odds, teaches everyone, for example, to care for one another. So, in a hospital setting everyone is full of kindness and empathy, while getting the job done.
Thanks for that info about Thailand. I'll feel much more relaxed when I'm lazing on Patong Beach next year :-)
For me Smacker, Phuket is not the place. The islands further out in the Andaman are where to go. No beach chairs and umbrellas. More like monkeys, turtles, dolphins. Bonfires. Sing and dance all night, making our own accoustic music. Sleep on the beach. Swim all day. I never want to leave LOS. Magical place.
Consider taking the Nok Air snake-boat, which you can catch on PhiPhi, near Phuket, and it will take you by all kinds of interesting islands to the south.
Sure, if I were younger I'd probably do some of the islands, like I did the Greek Islands independently in the 70s/80s. Nowadays, a need for more comfort and civilisation - decent bed, showers etc - make the mainland the best/safest choice. I stick to Phuket, Chiang Mai/Chiang Rai and Bangkok. I also went to Pattaya once.
But you're right about the LOS - quite amazing.
Single tooth implants cost about UKP 2,500 each in the UK, bridges even more. Some Brits go to Eastern Europe (Poland etc) where the cost is about one quarter of the UK and just as good. Even in Brazil I can get a single tooth implant for about BRL 2,000 or less. Nobody can explain to me why implants are so expensive in the UK.
Similar thing applies to many medical procedures, Brits travel to Eastern Europe to save money.
Ozzies come to Thailand for dental work all the time. One of the more popular procedures they like to have done is to remove ALL their teeth, rotted away thru endless larger and passing out without brushing. They get the whole set of replacement choppers, screwed into the jaws for a fraction of what it would cost them back home.
A new full set is the ultimate solution. But the cost, discomfort and time - several visits required over 9-12 months - IMO doesn't make it a sound proposition for people over the age of (say) 50, particularly since it needs to be carried out abroad to get a sane price. And then you have travel/hotel costs to add in etc.
In the UK it's a tad different. Much of the Chinese made stuff we get nowadays is good quality and far better than a few years ago. Example: right now, we are inundated with countless different LED light bulbs of the latest technology and darn good quality. This may be due to the distribution system that exists whereby the goods we get are usually bought by import agents who travel the world looking for products to sell back home. These guys know what will/won't sell in London. They buy up large quantities of quality products and get it shipped to the UK.
By contrast, I spend qute a bit of time in Brazil and the Chinese stuff sold there is mostly junk and very expensive due to ridiculous import taxes. Brazil's import buyers are either no good or they're choosing cheap junk to sell back home.
Long learning curve on engineering and manufacturing.
The Chinese only got a small advantage by the West's offshoring, but now the home grown
good product should have come online.
The first decade of Japanese exports were a joke at the time, I know I laughed at them.
Misery begets innovation, the west is far too confortable.
Very true about the long learning curve. But something to keep in mind is that for the West if you wanted to have a product manufactured in China you had to provide the technology and experience to them. So in effect they got fast-tracked way beyond what they could have acheived by themselves. So I'm going to call that a BIG advantage.
As far as first generation Japanese exports go, maybe you can remember things such things as this... Back in the mid '50 we would have these little toy cars made from recycled stamped tin that still had the Budwiser label visible on the inside of the stamping. Yea, even as a kid you could tell they had a long way to go.
And your comment about misery begetting innovation shows a keen insight most miss. Perhaps you may like this video as you are sure to understand the underlying principle.
http://www.wimp.com/usinginnovation/
Spot on Winnie :-)
I recently finished and furnished a home in a high-rise in China. The quality and style available is amazing. We bought flooring, kitchen counters, bathroom vanities, plumbing fixtures, household appliances, furniture, all that. great choices. Not the crap they export to America.
" W-M will take a good design and strip it down just to save a few penny"
I hear they do the same thing to employees