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T. Boone Pickens Rages On CNBC: "I Am The Expert, Not You", Says Oil Down Due To "Weak Demand"
Narrative, we have a problem! No lesser oil-man than T. Boone Pickens made quite an appearance on CNBC this morning - stunning the cheerleaders into first defense then silence as he broke the facts on oil's collapse to them. Oil is down "mainly due to weak demand," he explains... the anchors deny, "I am the expert, not you" Pickens rages as he warns drilling rigs will be laid down on a very wide scale (just as we have noted previously). Arguing over 'peak oil', he calls CNBC chatter "bullshit" and laid out a rather dismal short- to medium-term outlook for the oil & gas sector - not what the cheerleading tax-cut slurping media narrative wants to hear at all...
"demand is down" - "lower demand is the main driver" - "rig count is gonna fall - drop 500 rigs in next 6-9 months"
Capex cuts coming... oil prices may be back at $90-100 Brent in 12-18 months but not without rig counts plunging.
At 4:15 Pickens starts to discuss Peak Oil... enjoy -
CNBC: "Peak Oil didn't happen" ..
Pickens: "that's all bullshit... I am the expert not you" CNBC: "well you're not much of an expert if you thought Peak Oil happened"
Enjoy some real-life pushback on the narrative... (apologies for audio quality)
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So since economic conditions haven't improved in the past several years..........exactly WHO was fucking us with $4+ gallong gas when reality dictated it should've never been higher than it is now?
Everyone better be on point guard when they start coming up with BS reasons why it needs to go back up.
So, we agree, American shale-oil production must die. As a token of our understanding, we give you this bling made of solid barbaric relic.
Did Obama get that sweet gold chain for bending over in the palace stall?
It ain't called the fudgepacker in chief for nuthin
I am certainly no expert, but I can read these charts. Mr. Pickens is correct. .Demand is down, and supply is up.
The markets are just so distorted, being priced in USD Petrol Dollars, that it has taken some time for the underlying supply-and-demand fundamentals to have an effect. Oil, priced in dollars, has been propped up by the central banking cartels' QE, just like the stock markets, except it is easier to artificially inflate demand in the stock markets (just ask Kevin Henry and the CME).
Pretty sure that talking head on CNBC there that uttered "malthusian" is a ZH poster.
He was shouting him down with all this stuff about letting the free market work etc. that's all separate questions from whether we've seen peak oil. I kept thinking the whole way through, this all goes to show that nobody should argue that oil demand is inelastic. It is highly elastic, there is just this delay between stimulus and response because you have to change the infrastructure to respond to a major price change.
you cant change oil infrastructure.
the thing you type on those letters to display... oil...
plastic everywhere, demand is not down, this is BS TOO, this is a plastic world. how the fuck can demand go down where every fucking old steel stuff is replaced by shitty polymere...
even the guns are no more reliable more than 10 years... go find a full orginal glock gen 1 or 2... all broken stock making them inaccurate.
a world where the diktat force you to replace coz products are designed to break after day +1 after warrenty...
they will not fuck me with this oil story...
The price of fossil fuels can go negative and join NIRP for all I fucking care. That doesn't change the fact there's a finite supply and the future must have alternative energies which are decentralized and difficult for bankers to control.
To TB: You mad bro?
There's no doubt T. Boone is an expert on oil. Which means he is part of the oil game. Which means he will always be talking his book.
"Peak Oil"
"Global warming"
"Low priced oil = doom"
"Natural gas cannot replace oil at all."
"Electric cars can never work."
"Energy Independence"
Believe it if you want. G-d knows oilmen have spent a lot of your $$ (gas @$4) buying politicians, academics and "scientists" to get those memes out there.
i just dont understand how supply goes down and the price goes down with it. then, when more rigs are opporating, supply goes up, and so does the price? they would have you to believe that there is some sort of delay in the market to catch up with the oscillating suply demand cycle. i dont buy it. boon was also very content on saying that opec is NOT a cartel. not sure why he kept emphasizing that.
Oil is financialized. You have a bunch of investors chasing momentum and beliving the BS on the MSN. I don't know why anybody would expect oil to be priced according to production costs, supply and demand more than briefly in this shitshow.
Hedgless used US oil production when global production matters. Tsk tsk Hedgless.
<< So since economic conditions haven't improved in the past several years..........exactly WHO was fucking us with $4+ gallong gas ... >
I can honestly promise, it wasn't ME. I am poorer then a Church Mouse.
Oil supply is inelastic as well as demand. In the short run.
China killed this economy. ghost cities, et al.
"Oil is financialized."
This. Oil prices have been propped by QE, or as I prefer to call it, the turbo charged devaluation of the dollar. Oil prices (along with every other asset price) have continued to crater priced relative to this devaluation (as has the stock market), which is reflected in the "real economy".
Agree totes.
A LOT of QE finds itself in the TBTF's commodity houses, and the correlation between oil price and the various incarnations of QE1, 2 etc is a pretty convincing one
There is obviously some 50 gallon tank located somewhere in the world that triggers the price when it is full/empty
It once was. Too many players now. Speculators too.
Please explain how the global warming meme plays into the hands of Big Oil.
Remember who owns Big Oil. Remember the source of Agenda 21. All 'sides' are one. Taxing you for your Sins of Emission and manipulating price to corner and prolong supply is a recipe for global plantation: oligarchic "sustainability."
Finite supply yes, now remove Central bank financing and that finite supply might last 2000 years, why because it would be economically feasible to develop alternate forms of fuel and less hungry machines.
You should care a little more. Our entire oil/energy system is based on the idea that oil and gas comes from plants and decayed animals (biotic). The industry has known for quite some time that oil doesn't come from decayed plants and animals and that it is naturally produced by the planet. Example: Jupiter and Saturn are "gas giants"... as far as I know, there were no dinosaurs and old trees that decayed into oil/gas on those planets.
No peak oil. [The planet will continue to produce it]
No need for constant price changes. [They know how much the planet produces on a consistent basis]
Qui bono? [I'll refrain from answering this one]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin
They do not comprehend the real meaning of peak oil....it is peak, cheap oil first, then expensive oil will continue to flow until its VALUE is replaced by another energy sources that is cheaper. This concept is so simple, but the CNBS shills (kernen is a complete idiot) can't see this relationship.
Here is a simple example. If the saudis produce oil at $20/barrel at 10,000,000 bpd and the consumption is 10,000,000 bpd,then the cost will be around $20/barrel. If the consumption is 15,000,000 bpd and all the saudis can produce is 10,000,000 bpd then price is going to go up. Simple supply and demand economics. To get the next 5,000,000 bpd of consumption satisifed more expensive oil is going to have to be produced. Let's say this is oil is economical at $100/barrel. The whole price structure will have to ratchet up to the $100 level in order to produce this extra 5,000,000 or it will never be produced. This is why we have wild price swings. The delay in CAPEX spending for E&P is months to years.
So yes, Saudi has cheap oil. And yes, we have technology that can extract more oil that is needed to run the economy. The price of these two are vastly different and it all depends upon oil demand as to what the price will be.....
To restate what you have said:
When the next barrel of oil costs more to bring to market than it will sell for at market, we will have no more oil to use. This statement says nothing about how much oil will still be in the ground at that point.
Consider a demand curve: there will be many buyers at the lowest price. There will be few buyers at the highest price. When the next barrel of oil costs more to bring to market than the last few buyers are willing to pay for it, that barrel of oil will be left in the ground.
Given the demand curve just described, one definition of peak oil could be this: that price point on the demand curve just described that sells the most barrels of oil. As the cheaper-to-produce oil gets used up, so will disappear the buyers who can purchase only at those cheaper price points. As the more-expensive-to-produce oil becomes all that is left, those able and willing to pay these higher prices will become fewer.
Peak oil in this context is the price point where the most buyers actually purchase the oil. Past that point, the number of buyers will decline. As the number of buyers declines, so will the number of barrels of oil produced decline.
Theoretically, this entire scenario can be reset if someone invents a dramatically cheaper method to extract the more-difficult-to-extract oil. If this happens, the price of oil can be lowered to a point where someone will actually buy it again. But those numbers of buyers will never reach the volume of buyers that existed at the sweet price point we are defining as "peak oil" in this example.
It does not matter how much oil we have left in the ground. It only matters if that oil can be extracted at a cost which buyers are willing to cover, plus a bit more for profit to the extracting company.
. [What Jerry said]
Shut the fuck up Kernen!
Him and Becky couldn't get past the light switch analogy, and Pickens had to explain supply and demand to them (Economics 101). DUH!
The refiner motor gasoline sales volume by refiners chart is misleading. This chart basically shows retail sales by gas stations owned by refiners. Oil majors have been divesting their retail outlets for some time now, which results in a big plunge in this chart as this sales volume has moved to wholesale.
For example, Exxon quit the US retail gas market in 2008: http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/06/12/us-exxon-idUSN1238193020080612
Really?
Ok ok...
the u.s. is NOT the world, and we are talking WORLD oil price and WORLD consumption.
Just how much has refined product consumption INCREASED in the East?
Showing a chart of u.s. consumption is basically meaningless in this discussion.
You seriously believe gas sales are down 70% since the late 90s?
The chart just shows a small subset of the gas sales, the part that is branded gasoline. These sales don't include sales from non-branded gas outlets like grocery stores, Quicktrip, Joe's gas stations etc. This gasoline is still sold just not through the refiner's own branding.
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.be/2012/04/understanding-gasoline...
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=mgfupus1&f=m
The bolded part of your quote even says the same thing: "all direct sales to end users". Gas stations are not end users.
The EIA site is confusing as hell. The link you gave only brings up the 20 Mgal/day of Retail Sales to End Users by product type. Refiners sell closer to 300 Mgal/day in total.
If you go to the page you linked under "Show data by" and choose "Sales Type", you get this page which includes both To End User and For Resale categories. For some reason, the EIA does not sum the individual For Resale categories into a For Resale - Total row like they do for the To End User category.
It will be much clearer if you mark the check boxes for each category and hit the Graph button.
The EIA categories with % of Sept. daily sales are
Sales to End Users, Total (shown ~7%)
Sales for Resale, Total (shown, but not populated with sum!) roughly equiv. to 'Wholesale sales' but not called that by EIA
Refiners don't really sell much through-the-gate - most is piped to terminals where dealers sell it (to end users or for resale) on behalf of the refiners.
A grand total by year would show gallons sold flat or declining slightly for the last decade and declining faster for the most recent few years. Still only a percentage point or two lower per year.
Stealing HH's chart ... very important ...
If y'all didn't catch a comment in TBoone's interview, it was that American oil saved the global economies bacon. The second chart show is US Production and that huge ramp is shale/frak oil.
Most people don't realize the significances or magnitude of this fact. These levels haven't been seen since the EIGHTIES (and it was still going straight up until the price crashed).
Shale oil is fixing to roll over (i.e. the rig count collapse) and all that marginal production is coming off the market in a couple years due to the decline rates of frack wells. Demand may stay down as well, but global production is going to trend down.
And at the first hint of a pick up in global economic activity ...
OIL SHOCK A'COMING.
Regards,
Cooter
Got a feeling that the only short to mid term potential for organic economic activity is war. Everything else just looks like capital running for it's life.
I am already looking forward to the “Rubber-Band Effect” [named after the Nobel Prize winners, Dr Rubber and Mr Band] when prices snap back and beyond $200. Given all these EM’s bursting at the seams to build armies, houses, roads, industries, etc [take Burma for example] they will suck up oil [and probably coal] at a fierce pace. I can bet you my next bonus [of one Whopper Meal the boss gives us out of the kindness of his heart] that Wall Street will be gorging itself on cheap oil and then let it snap back and break more Merikan backs. Timing it is impossible unless you are An Insider.
… jmho given their nefarious nature.
well said cooter
So why is demand down T? Could it be a liquidity crisis, not enough fiat in the hands of people to purchase moar? Not only are the oil markets manipulated, but more importantly the manipulation of the currency markets make it all go haywire.
A) Still in a recession
B) More people than every are not working.
C) More people than ever work at home.
D) Vehicles that get better mileage.
E) Vehicles that burn coal indirectly
You can weight these as you wish, but all would lead to a decline in consumption.
TBP is either going senile (cause he's getting hammered by the Saudis and bankers), or he's full of it. The explanations being offered are not internally consistent:
A. If the economy is recovering, and our Dear Leaders, their B(L)S guys and Wall St tell us it is, demand can NOT be down. Especially with everything made out of plastics, which come from oil.
B. If demand is down, then our economy has NOT recovered and we must still be in recession. In which case A is a Deceit and a Lie.
C. But if B is true (the story about the economy is a lie and we have massive, Centrally-Planned Control & Manipulation going on, and demand is indeed down), then you don't crank production to drop, or prices will tank. You simply reduce production, if possible.
D. And if C is true (demand down), then you are not reducing production, either because of politics (Russia, Iran, Venezuela), or because of technical reasons (salt water being pumped in, etc, as some have suggested). I don't buy the "technical" reasons, simply because the Saudis did not keep the production constant, but actually increased it. Therefore I smell a Biggus Ratus Saudius.
I see no other options. Although Pickens is seeing red, it seems. If the arguments being offered/flogged are not internally consistent, them you have either massive ignorance or incompetence at many places (oil execs and politicians), or you have a deliberate economic and political war going on. And I do not think that oil execs are anything but smart and extremely competent.
The ONLY option left is...
E. Economic and Political Warfare: Saudis fighting for Market share, and the US happy to use the Saudis to bring Russia, Iran and Venezuela to its knees. And, in so doing, bring a host of other countries to 'heel'.
Unfortunately for Pickens & Friends, they are "collateral damage". Now that is an explanation that is internally consistent in its logic. Pickens & Friends might be rich (for now), but they are not in the Club or the Tribe. They might be Exceptional, but they are not Chosen.
p.s. It might be useful which countries only benefit from this situation: Those who are both energy-dependent from import AND who are Top-Level Clients of the Fed and QE: The EU, JAPAN, CHINA and ISRAEL. That's quite a collection.
China has benefitted tremendously from rather favorable energy deals with Russia in the wake of the Saudi oil suppy dump. Something to consider when deciding whether China and Russia represent an axis to The Tribe, or whether that deal merely represents an optical face save for Russia as it continues to be subjucated by another Tribe country.
I think Becky uses cucumber frost cream on her sweet cheeks. I hope that guy gets a bonus so he can fix the gap in his front teeth.
I just sent Becky an email to help her ‘get the lingo right.’
The groupthink on this board lets me know it's full of retards, nowadays. How stupid.
mr. Pickens is correct? how is he correct? Picken said the world was at peak oil, but yet we found a boatload of oil in US shale and then oil production went up. sure, global oil demand appears to have also go down, but we sure has heck aren't at peak oil....just wait until we apply the technologies of horizontal drilling and fracking to other oil drilling parts of the world other than the US! peak oil, my ass.... no one ever said there wasn't a finite amount of oil...we just aren't there yet, obviously...sorry Boone
Is Mr. Pickens Correct? Who cares? Better question to ask would be if Marion King Hubbert has been correct! You (the U.S.A. that is) peaked in 1970. Nineteen seventy, ya here?!
Sagt Bearwagon:
I think you already know the answer. Oh, sure, the discovery of Alaska's North Slope oil pushed things back a little, but his methodology was sound and the lower 48 peaked in 1970 as predicted. Fracking for tight oil is just a way of scraping the bowl.
Fröhliche Weinachten, mein Freund.
It's painted lead but he won't know the difference.
Hey yo! Hey y'all! I'm an expert too! I'm a master too!
Why doesn't this fucking asshat have to follow the same rules as us regarding accepting gifts...?? They have the same issues with conflicts of interest and much, much, much bigger consequences (just ask Russia, Venezuela, or anyone in the US shale industry).
If I get anything over $100 from clients or any business associates, I have to decline the gift and report it to an unknown number of alphabet soup government agencies.
Fucking hypocrites.
Laws don't apply to the lawmakers.
Oh, and how come last time we saw sub-$60/bbl oil the price for gas at the pump was $1.79 and now it's $2.59?
Never mind...I already know the answer. Thanks .gov! Cocksuckers.
MH, how's your OTG (Off-The-Grid) retirement/retreat going?
You enjoying that cheaper gas, diesel or heating oil? Be cool, stay warm, and keep the Mrs warm at night. Warm feet means warm heart, and warm heart means warm... everything. :-)
If I was the Saudi Prince, I would TOTALLY have an "I pity the fool" MR T-shirt under that robe-looking thing I was wearing.
Regards,
Cooter
I appreciate the mockery of CNBCheerleaders and dickslappers like that homely looking farm girl Quick, but this antique is high as a kite with this $90-$100 crap. Either he's a part of it or doesn't seem to get it. Funny money put it above $100 and even if QE4EVA comes roaring back the black gold might not even be priced globally in USD at that point.
Post-reset when EMs escape enslavement by the Fed then perhaps legitimate global demand for oil based on organic and true economic growth will drive it higher priced in various currencies. Where's the demand for this big reversal to $100+ within 12-18 months?
I think he invested heavily in Canadian Oil Sands, along with the Koch Brothers.
"Where;s the demand for this reversal within 12-18 months--" It doesn't exist. Your're right.
Great pic.
Now for equal time place the pic of Geo. Bush fawning over that Saudi King next to it.
No difference between the two.
Ick. But you asked for it.
http://www.newsbleat.com/bush_kiss.jpg
Once your premise is wrong, it's all downhill from there. The saudi's lowered the price of gas to the eastern u.s. the rest of the states had to follow suit or risk regional price wars, they did.
They did not lower the price of oil to give us all a break. They did it to destroy Russia in punishment for defying the NWO. If they succeed in that or try something else they price goes right back up with losses factored in to recover any money the populace saved. They could lower it to $1 permanently and still make mountainous profits. They have so much power that they can weaponize the resources of everyday life with impunity.
The US, Saudi, and Russia all produce about the same volumes. If Russia really goes offline for a "re-org" all holy hell will break lose.
Regards,
Cooter
These seem to happen with increasing frequency.
The funny thing is the Russians have done this a few times, there is not panic or widespread anxiety there, just a run on Ikea...
You're correct fleur. Just because the price of oil is down doesn't mean we haven't hit peak oil. We have! Peak oil means all the cheap, easy to get oil has been found. This is why their drilling miles deep in the oceans and going after shale and tar sands. The low hanging fruit has been picked. The price is down because the market (like all the other markets) is being manipulated to hurt Russia.
Some would say that with a supply glut coming, Saudis looked ahead and felt that lowering the price would benefit them. Sure, Russia hurts, but any producer with lower margins on extraction would hurt. What the Saudis enjoy is a low extraction price. They need to keep that revenue coming in. If they shut down 400 rigs someplace else and increase their volumes, it makes up for somewhat lower margins. Extraction efforts at some areas are costly. But they will pump into the supply chain and take what profit they can. If no profit, then they are gone, and the business goes elsewhere, in this case, the Saudis. They will be the last place pumping if demand continues to drop.
Sounds cheery, but the reality is that prices go up and down, in cycles, and have for a long time.
There is a saying, which is insightful, "the cure for low prices is low prices" or "the cure for high prices is high prices".
I prefer perpetual cheaper myself, but that is not the dynamics of the system.
Regards,
Cooter
It's down due to weak demand. A nice story; but. It doesn't account for the suddeness of the markets perception of it's "weak demand". What does account for the facts as we know them, (ie. extreme abruptness of onset of the oil price decline); a.) a direct request from Obamaville to Saudi Arabia to reduce the price to embarrass and distress Russia, and b.) the perception of the shift in the wind by the Speculators at "Futures R Us"; that they could now in fact play the short side of this market. The other thirty percent is weak demand.
I feel kind of sorry for Boone, as many guys would have went full retard after the peak oil comment or just dropped the mic. Normally Becky keeps him on a leash, but chase producer dropped the ball on that one.
To answer your question, one needs to look at the slack in gasoline inventories and the layering in of taxation on a barrel since 93. Gasoline on a per gallon basis is about 60% tax at the moment, up from about 30% tax in the good old 70's which you and many retail investors use as the frame of reference.
On a related note, check out that 'wow' GDP number this AM. massive pull-forwards and end of sesson splurging by US Federal gov to flatten their earmarks before the 2015 'sequester'. As expected. 2Q15 is going to be impressive if the numbers do not show a massive slowdown right around April.
Oil is priced in dollars. Dollars are the price signaling mechanism for oil. Dollars have been heavily manipulated over the past several years, so therefore true price discovery is badly distorted.
All part of the plan, by the way.
as usual we have pundits, experts, and other ne'er do wells pontificating on peak oil without understanding what peak oil actually is...
here is the definition for peak oil, bitchez... the next time you hear that term being thrown about remember this and don't become another post turtle... I'm busy saving the ones already up there as it is...
"Peak Oil" means that you've reached a _combination_ of peak extraction limits with peak demand, resulting in a supply gap that's reflected in _peak prices_ for oil
the "peak prices" component of Peak Oil can be further amplified by _price manipulation_ if certain parties gain control of the supply chain
when does "Peak Oil" typically unwind?
- when supply increases (extraction limits exceeded, new wells brought on line, etc.)
- when demand drops
- when supply chain manipulation ends
- any combination of the above three
there you have it... keep this in your back pocket the next time "Peak Oil" comes up in conversation, that way you actually sound intelligent when discussing the subject with your braying jackass friends & acquaintances...
Even the experts agree that there are multiple definitions for "Peak Oil".
The useful exercise is to ask "Peak Oil What ...?
Peak Oil Production ...
Peak Oil Price ...
Peak Oil Usage ...
Peak Oil Available ...
etc.
Along with this, it is useful to remember that "reserves" is not really relevant when discussing demand. A huge reserve with a slow extraction rate is not going to do much to satisfy current demand.
< --- T. Boone Douchebag
< --- T. Bone Thepublic
Government makes more from every gallon of gasonline that those who actually produce it....because it has all the guns, and the monopoly prviledge on the initiation of force.
Ding. We have a winner. Someone is actually paying attention to reality. Bad Boy !
Why, the PEAK OIL bullshitters, of course. And the Tin Foil hats that parrot them.
Forget the term "fossil" which is indoctrinated in us from our gov't approved "science" books. I'm sure it is only a coincidence that "fossil" fuel implies near-term exhaustion of finite supply rationalizing higher pump prices for the monopolies/ligopolies by the term "peak oil". The same type of dunce it takes to believe in man-made global warming is required to believe dino graveyards produce hydrocarbon fuel.
New word, abiotic, and new name, Vladimir Kutcherov. http://www.forbes.com/2008/11/13/abiotic-oil-supply-energenius08-biz-cz_rl_1113abiotic.html Too many verifiable cases of oil wells seemingly never running out. Abiotic hydrocarbon hypothesis was successfully tested in lab.
Did big oil monopolies/oligopolies sponsor pursuit of alternate fuel stategies? Why would they ever want to undermine their monopoly/oligopoly? Cui bono?
...And we'll continue to be duped.
"Fossil" means "obtained by digging", so any fuel that is dug out of the ground is a fossil fuel.
Biotic versus Abiotic does not matter, I don't care how it gets there, all I care about is how quickly it gets there, particularly in relation to how fast we extract it.
Even if the oil regenerates nearly instantaneously, there is still a maximum limit to the rate at which it can be extracted.
Since people tend to exploit the easiest to get to, cheapest resources first, we can generalize that new sources of any given commodity will generally cost more, in money and energy, than the older resources that were first exploited, so the price will tend to increase over time no matter what.
Right, but what specifically is the cheapest resource methodology, and is the "drill baby drill" meme a facade?
Speaking of 'duped'. I never believe anything that Mayer Amschel had to day.
Other than the fact that he only looks out for himself, his family and his Tribe. The way every Tribesman thinks, when confronted with an Opportunity, Challenge, Issue or Crisis:
1. "What's in it for me and my family?"
2. "What's in it for my People?"
All else is "fluid". And all other People are either too dumb, too selfish and short-sighted or too disorganized to think like this. They therefore do not succeed nearly as well in the era of a. Paper money, b. Industrialization and c. Technology -- all of which, when combined, allow for galactic size piles of Debt Instruments, which they create, peddle and control.
That was the risk premium we were paying in case the US destroyed the oil fields while we were at war.
What's very interesting is even T. Boone Pickens knows and acknowledges that Peak Oil is here.
That doesn not mean....and he would agree....that this means we are running out of oil. This means we do not have the flexibility to up production rapidly enough with the cheap oil needed to keep the Ponzi World going at the pace that it has over the last 50 years.....particularly the last 30.
Heck, Jumbotron, the mere existence of fracking is proof that peak oil is here. It's a very costly--and sometimes risky--method of oil/gas extraction. In a world of endless, cheap oil, no one would bother doing such a thing.
< DING DING DING >
EXACTamundo !!
If we were AWASH in cheap to acquire and refine oil.....ala Jed Clampett opening up a store of oil just by shooting it......then we would not need the high tech fancy shit to scrape the sides of the geological toilet boil in the form of fracking in the States and Tar Sands in Canada.
If there was SOOOoooooo much cheap and easy oil to get to in the world.....then why do this ?
http://priceofoil.org/content/uploads/2013/04/tar_sands.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-768oOTV7rs4/T1uQ5xtZRsI/AAAAAAAAAXk/MYDAJFLuW...
http://basementwaterproofinginformation.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/t...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/keystone-down-the-line/files/2012/06...
http://rickmc.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/tar-sands1.jpg
Oops he said a banned phrase 'reduced demand' does not go along with the Christmas Economy narrative that CNBC is peddling..
Exactly. The oil market is no more a 'free' market than the financial markets are. The Saudis are doing this deliberately to weaken Iran and Russia. Western economists are just pushing that explanation to distract from Washington and Riyadh's campaign against both countries.
well, I told you who...
crazy old geser telling the truth
Its always the crazy old geezer telling the truth and as always, no one is listening. To be a progressive, you can never look back. Every day is a new opportunity to recreate reality.
That's why Ron Paul didn't win...
That was my horse in the race..
Just think where we could be if he would have been elected.
As much as I like what RP says, we wouldn't be anywhere different if he was elected.
If it was possible for 1 man to actually control this, we would have been goose stepping long ago.
pods
Yea, well, RP would've slowed down the slowdown however...
^.^
Nope. The bastards would've collapsed everything and blamed it on his policies, similar to the first TARP vote.
he would have been killed
like other men that went against the banks
TBP has valid points
but this is still mostly geopolitics and a criminal agreement (as it's always been) between the Saudi and US ruling peoples
every price has been distorted
but oil still runs the planet
more people (outside the US and western world) are using it
and its getting harder and harder to get
So which bank was long oil? A US bank? European? Besides the oil producing States of course, they're already fucked.
OPEC isn't a cartel. I LOL'd.
Think of it like this: Big companies have lots of "VPs". Not all are Equal.
Real power in large companies rests only in a handful of "VPs": Executive VPs (EVPs). Typically 3-5 guys call all the important shots that truly matter. All else is noise and PR.
So it is with "OPEC". You don't really think that OPEC-member Venezuela has any real power or leverage, do you?
Paul would have vetoed enough nonsense bills to the point they would only sudmit and pass things that could meet constitutional muster or be overridden. And there is not enough teamwork in DC to override too many vetoes.
...with his vice president as president.
PROGRESSIVE. I see this word a lot recently, always in a tongue-in-cheek derogatory manner.
I believe Teddy Roosevelt was the first Presidential candidate of the short-lived Progressive Party. Teddy Roosevelt was a progressive. I am a progressive.
I think that REGRESSIVE is what the international bankers are, for they are attempting to take the world back to the Dark Ages. Obviously, that is regressing.
Back in the Dark Ages, a tiny group of people enjoyed enormous power, by making everyone else a peasant. To achieve this, the tiny group burned books, burned holistic doctors as witches, and burned scientists as satanists. That was the Dark Ages reality, and I think the international bankers are trying to recreate that Dark Ages reality. For the REGRESSIVES, every day is a new opportunity to move closer to recreating the Dark Ages reality.
This "progressive" stuff must come from some talk show person. I bet the international bankers are paying him.
Yes, I refer to them as Regressive Socialists.
"I am a progressive. "
American Progressive Manifesto
It is self-evident that government has the power (or should have the power) to implement any good idea, and that when we are all on the same page, everyone benefits, but now, let’s think for ourselves, and explain why.
Effective government is necessary for the health and prosperity of everyone today and for future generations. A threat to government is thus a threat to the health and prosperity of everyone.
Government has some powers delegated from the power of individuals, such as the power to borrow and spend, and government also has unique powers that may not be legitimately exercised by individuals independently of government, such as the power to kill or to tax other individuals. Government thus has these unique powers, not because they were delegated by individuals who do not possess such powers, but because those individuals agreed to be bound by government.
We know that 97% of individuals, if given the choice, would agree to be bound by government rather than live without the benefits of government. Every individual instinctively knows that his life without government would be short, nasty, and brutish.
Although we would like to grant the 3% the right to live without government, many of those reactionaries would not get vaccinated, and many more would possess weapons. Therefore, it is self-evident that the health and prosperity of the other 97% dictate that all 100% of individuals must agree to be bound by government.
Everyone must be bound by government at all times, even when they disagree – especially when they disagree. Otherwise, Rule of Law would devolve into chaos and threaten the health and prosperity of everyone. No one can be above the law.
While we Progressives do not always agree with each other, we always accept the authority of government because effective government requires that 100% accept the authority of government. Anyone who does not accept the authority of government is thus a threat to the health and prosperity of everyone.
Some governments have committed atrocities in the past, but we will not let our government commit atrocities. However, individuals and businesses will always allow themselves to be ruled, and thus, if Progressives do not rule, then a worse faction would rule. Any other faction would be less effective and may even commit atrocities, and thus a threat to our rule is a threat to the health and prosperity of everyone. In other words, we are the good guys, in the vernacular, as it were.
Given that we are the good guys, and that we know we are right, then if we think for ourselves, we can deduce many other self-evident corollaries, such as the fact that it is OK to lie to maintain our rule. Such action is not only OK, but it is indeed noble. It is the Noble Lie advocated by Plato.
For all these reasons, it is thus legitimate for progressives to take any action up to and including killing any number smaller than a majority in order to maintain our rule. Obviously, if we had to kill a majority to maintain our rule, then our rule would not have been legitimate. We are people of principle after all.
More important than maintaining our rule is defending government itself. Government would be justified in killing a majority rather than letting anarchy prevail. Then, at least, the surviving minority would have the blessings of government.
More important than maintaining government and defending our rule is defending the future. For example, defending the planet is the most critical element of defending the future, and thus we would be justified in killing all but a tiny remnant of individuals if that were necessary to stop a threat to the planet, such as Global Warming, but of course, if it were possible to save the planet by merely sterilizing (instead of killing) all but a small remnant of humanity, then we would do that instead.
Another threat to the future is bad genes. In order to improve the human gene pool, it could be necessary to kill and/or sterilize all but small remnant of humanity. It should be self-evident that any such eugenics program should begin with those reactionaries who are least progressive.
By now it should be clear that only by our rule can everyone experience the full blessings of government; and though we mean to rule with benevolence, make no mistake, we mean to rule.
Thank you.
This reminds of the Federalists and the Anti-federalists. Madison and Hamilton wrote the Federalist Papers, and did not sign their names to those various Papers, but signed them "the Federalists". We now think of them as the Federalists, but at that moment the real federalists were for a weaker central government, and Madison and Hamilton were arguing for a stronger central government. What Madison and Hamilton did was steal the name "Federalist" and use it to mean its opposite. That forced the real federalists to adopt the name "Anti-Federalists", a far weaker name, because it made them sound like obstructionists, rather than merely people distrustful of a stronger central government. This maneuver by Madison and Hamilton was brilliant and, of course, dishonest.
Similarly, this "American Progressive Manifesto" does not speak for me. Just because its writer calls himself "American Progressive" does not, IMHO, make him either American or Progressive.
I can call myself Paris Hilton, but that doesn't make me Paris Hilton. :-)
"Anyone who does not accept the authority of government is thus a threat to the health and prosperity of everyone." Under any circumstance? What about when the government exceeds its authority? What about when the government labels itself as a progressive government, but ignores the constitution and does not enforce the law? I've watched this happen. The IRS, for instance. So the people who do not accept authority that the government really does not have is a threat to the government? I can't accept that. I would say it's a threat to the unlawful actions of the government, and should be clearly defined in that manner, rather than handing the stick to the government without question.
the word is making a resurgence after it long ago became so dirty a word that people refused to identify themselves with it. that's when they bastardized the word "liberal" and perverted its very meaning....now that Liberal is becoming a dirty word, just like cankles said, I'm no liberal, I'm a progressive!
think about that for a minute next time you feel the urge to call yourself a progressive. or maybe you really are that much of a schmuck.
It never ceases to amaze me how words are usually bent & warped to apply derogatory meaning by fuck-wads who could really stand a refresher in language and grammar. For example - progressive - comes from progress and most of us would like to think progress, in general, is a good thing. Conservative comes from conserve...typically as in conserve the way things were done in the past. Sometimes that's a good thing too. Liberal basically means freedom. I like freedom. None of these words have bad meanings per se. It just takes humans to fuck up what they really mean and associate themselves or others by a single word because they can't use their fucking brains to go beyond their own preconceptions.
I am conservative, liberal, progressive, etc...depending on the subject. That doesn't mean I don't know where I stand. It simply means that I have different views depending on the subject at hand. I also am willing to recognize my knowledge is incomplete and sometimes it's even plain wrong. Anyone who thinks they are a master, or an expert in 99.99% of cases isn't. A master is someone who realizes they will never know it all. There seem to be a lot of fucking know-it-alls on this site...
But have at it - keep arguing over what a word really means when it comes to identifying entire swathes of humans. That's a really good use of your time.
Me too.
There is actually a group called Republicans for Environmental Protection, and I believe its motto is "Conservation is conservative". I say "amen" to that motto.
Well, this is "Fight Club", and this is words, so I don't feel bad fighting over words. Words are symbols for ideas, and ideas are what we humans have. :-)
Today, members of the Green Party of the United States are most likely to self-identify as liberal progressives. In the U.S. Congress, the Congressional Progressive Caucus is the most liberal wing of the Democratic Party, and it is often in opposition to the more centrist or conservative Democrats who form the Blue Dogs caucus. It is also in near-continuous opposition to the Republican Party.
"For the PROGRESSIVES, every day is a new opportunity to move closer to recreating the Dark Ages reality."
There, FIFY.
There is no escaping the dark, evil, thieving and murdering history of progressives. Attempts to re-write history are expected from this group and will not be successful.
Grimaldus
I think solar energy is progressive. I think all of us, progressives and anti-progressives, are not escaping the dark, evil, thieving and murdering history of the anti-progressive oil corporations, all over the world, including, right now, in Syria, Iraq, Ukraine, Pakistan, and probably many other countries we aren't even hearing about.
If we progressives successfully develop solar energy, perhaps the anti-progressive oil corporations will do a little less dark, evil, thieving and murdering in the future.
Love it: "OPEC is not a cartel...but trade association"....and then he proceeds to say why (Venezuela, Nigeria, etc). Supply will always be out there, until 2026, when Neptune finally leaves Pisces (oil! oil! oil!).
Joe Kiernan is an AZZ WIPE........
Is he more of a moist towelette, or the rough gritty one-ply kind you find in the stall at work?
More like the ones you got in a 'stall' with a crescent moon cut into it back in depression era Georgia
I dunno know.
A well moistened corn husk would keep Obama and Reggie entertained for hours.
Please add something more to the discussion of oil prices than just anal sex jokes.
It's a good thing that oil and lubricants are so cheap now, cause the shale oil producers are sure taking it in the poopchute.
:)
pods
Really slick how you slipped that one in a pinch Pods.
nice one pods
"Please add something more to the discussion of oil prices than just anal sex jokes."
[request from americanreality]
Really?... No seriously... REALLY? I got your oily americanreality right here.
http://www.beautyblitz.com/sites/default/files/kim-kardashian.jpg
americanreality, please add something more to the anal sex discussion than just talk of oil prices.
Yawn.
....on one of those eccentric rollers, which only permit one sheet to be torn off at a time.
Yep. He and Becky need to get a little work experience on an oil rig. What arrogant losers these "journalists" are.
I was waiting for Pickens to tell the little 25 year-old-looking douche to just sit down and shut up.
You shut up when you're talking to me!
.
T Boone "Ass Crack" Pickens.
What a butt nugget
My sister went out with an ass-wipe for a couple of years. His nickname became "Tucks."
He never let on that he knew why.
kernan is a reptile https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSScnOwL8tc
This interview was glorious. Well done, T. Boone!
.
So the US economic war against Putin and Russia has nothing to do with the crash in oil prices?
The Oil Coup US-Saudi Subterfuge Send Stocks and Credit Reeling“John Kerry, the US Secretary of State, allegedly struck a deal with King Abdullah in September under which the Saudis would sell crude at below the prevailing market price. That would help explain why the price has been falling at a time when, given the turmoil in Iraq and Syria caused by Islamic State, it would normally have been rising.” (Stakes are high as US plays the oil card against Iran and Russia, Larry Eliot, Guardian)
U.S. powerbrokers have put the country at risk of another financial crisis to intensify their economic war on Moscow and to move ahead with their plan to “pivot to Asia”.
Here’s what’s happening: Washington has persuaded the Saudis to flood the market with oil to push down prices, decimate Russia’s economy, and reduce Moscow’s resistance to further NATO encirclement and the spreading of US military bases across Central Asia. The US-Saudi scheme has slashed oil prices by nearly a half since they hit their peak in June. The sharp decline in prices has burst the bubble in high-yield debt which has increased the turbulence in the credit markets while pushing global equities into a tailspin. Even so, the roiled markets and spreading contagion have not deterred Washington from pursuing its reckless plan, a plan which uses Riyadh’s stooge-regime to prosecute Washington’s global resource war
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-oil-coup/5420293
I will only comment with the following. Russia or the USSR has lived through and survived an crisis in the low price of oil in the past. They are still there aren't they? Kind of makes global research silly.
Who is feeling the effect of the oil price drop mostr is ISIS. Remember ISIS was selling oil they stole under the market to fund their operations.
So my take is that Obama thinks he can kill two birds with one stone. Kill shale oil in the US and ISIS. And if history is to repeat, Obama will have another blunder on his hands because it will back fire in some way.
while Obama is truly an idiot, who says he (or the people he listens to) don't have multiple goals in mind, hurting russia and isis ...along with an underhanded way to hurt fracking and shale.
ANd if you think Russians are tough, the boys that make up ISIS are some very pissed off people who have nothing else to lose.
None of these games change the reality of supply...much like the european folks caught literally buying the stuff from the "terrorists". If that deosn;t some up the bullshit..
All of this geopolitical stupidity has done nothing more than put europe in a more desperate (long term) energy crisis.
Obama doesn't want to hurt ISIS. He just wants to punish them a little for not following orders from his masters. If they get back in the good graces of the bank cartel or whatever you call those powers, the punishment will stop. We can't have a bunch of crazies with guns who won't do as they are told. ISIS is part of the master plan, they just misbehaved a little.
How can that hurt ISIS? They're STEALING the oil. Pump or die. $10.00 /bbl is still profit to them.
US screws Putin and Saudi's screw Iran who need $120.00+/bbl oil price to run their fucked up govt. The Republican Guard are like the Mafia on steroids.
Both would like a little regime change action.
ISIS is a sideshow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h7OXlPeMQI
PS
http://1-ps.googleusercontent.com/hk/9dO3E1tyAM9FEJoQjUgzLfLy1j/www.theg...
Follow the money. About 185 pick ups (some with isis in arabic logos / slogans in plastic film on doors, hoods, etc) ordered from San Antonio and shipped to Jordan. Hmmm.
Peak oil or price manipulation to break Putin?
Peak oil is expected to manifest in a sequence of demand destroying price swings. Under free market conditions shortages produce price increases to a point where segments of the economy fall over reducing demand which then produces a glut and a slump in prices. This process repeats but at each peak in prices delivers less oil at the high ERoEI margins and at the same time there is less low cost oil from the established fields and the oil producers export less as they consume more domestically.
I haven't had a chance to look at the overall consumption figures (slow internet) but if overall demand is down due to economic downturns around the world (eg. Spain, Greece, Ukraine, Egypt etc.) then what we are seeing could be both, deliberate price reduction to kill Russia BECAUSE of peak oil. I saw some numbers posted here yesterday to this effect but maybe these are just for the USA as are HH's figures above.
The (manipulated) price reduction produces self inflicted wounds but the hope is that Russia ends up being killed while the West is merely wounded, and the prize, Russian oil sold in USD sends fresh blood through the West's financial veins to heal them.
I've often thought that “surely the elite with access to the best brains in the world can understand that the intersection of the exponential and the linear is financial collapse” money printing at interest in a finite world works while there is room for growth but now we have the debt bloated balance sheets of the Western world covetously eyeing up Russia's debt free resources, which in the end will only end up buying just a little more time. So I think surely they know this and so why don't they instigate a Jubilee we restructure and we all end up living sustainably within the resources available in our local communities.
That doesn't happen because they have a formula and it works for them and it's been used since the opium wars against China (and well before!!) drugs to black budgets, provocateurs, the Philippines, South America leading Smedley Butler to declare 'War is a Racket” and it explains why billions are available to destabilise Ukraine, Syria, Lybia, fund ISIS, fight Ebola in Africa with soldiers, right down to the paid commenters here.
Amerikan Patriot (and all of you other trolls out there doing your best to spoil this place) print this
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/fpid1fhd6nv59/China_Russia_Double_Helix
out, read it, and put a copy on your bosses desk before you head home for Christmas.
Complements of the season to JO, JB, HH, Atz. Knc (to name a few) and all the other real people out there.
http://otdon.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/the-oil-crash-is-not-saudis-fault.html
Finally someone calls it as it is.
except Kerry went over to the saudis and this was a direct outflow from that - any assessment that leaves out the economic war being waged against russia is deeply flawed.
Seems that way. Economies on the edge here... the game has gone high-stakes.
Poor guy, they don't even let him speak for few minutes..
That's why he was raging with impotence.
If he would just sing the party line he would get all the airtime he needs.
These Fuckers in Lafayette La spending like $100 bills just grow on trees .
Was on South US 90 yesterday which is a big stretch of oil & gas service companies ..
Parking lots full of top of the line Trucks ,sports cars ..suv's..workers getting paid!!!
Then I passed a Cat dealer ..surprised they are not offering zero down and $50k off any new equipment cause that fucker was packed with new equipment , same for the John Deer dealer...
Well, need to get off Zerohedge and go file for my $247 unemployment check..
Thanks Mexicans ,politicians,and you mother Fuckers and your clicks!
You need to find a nitch. Anyone knows there's no money in auto body repair and hasn't been for years. Stop blaming and start doing something about it. You will never be rich if you work for someone else.
Wrong, the collision business is good trade , i have earned well , I don't want to be rich .....just be happy and comfortable..
Like I have said ....I Fucked up by coming back to Louisiana ...when your on commission and the rate is $8 more 40% commission $ 3.20 more a flag hour adds up when your flagging 100+ hours a week to the tune of $25k a year
Then why are your harping? My Cousin Steve is an autobody man and has been for 20 years; hates it. Constantly fighting with insurance companies and their low ball prices, paranoid bosses, and idiot co-workers. Sorry, start your own business or create a widget other auto body guys can use and make a million. Blaming immigrants for all your problems right or wrong won't fix the problem that you still need to buy groceries. Start fabricating cool yuppie mom baby pull along bikes for young hipsters or something. Discontent is supposed to foster you poping out the grove and trying something different. So do something you're good at on the side.
Somehow I feel you will never be happy or comfortable. Republican?
Somebody please slap Becky so she can have an orgasm. It's the only way for a tight ass bitch like her to get off now Daddy Buffet has moved on......
but but GDP was 5.0..and I have my DOW 18K hat on..
Becky Quick sure is stupid...
LOL, peanuts arguing with a billionaire. If nothing else possibly some good investment advice to help offset my fleet of v-8's fuel costs.
The concept of "peak oil" shows ignorance of real economics. (As opposed to Keynesian economics)
The molecules in gasoline must come from somewhere. At present they come by taking apart and reassembling the atoms and molecules in hydrocarbon-rich crude oil. However, any source of these atoms and molecules could be used, the main factor is cost.
The truth is that the earth is almost literally awash in hydrocarbons that could be used to make motor vehicle fuels. At present crude oil is, on balance, the least expensive source. However the instant that some other source of hydrocarbons like coal or natural gas becomes less expensive on a relative basis, industry would quickly switch. We could use switch grass or algae today for a primary source if we were willing to pay $26/gallon for the finished fuel, which the US military does, but only the US government does because it can print money.
It is for this reason that “peak oil” is a specious worry because the only thing that counts is the price of the finished fuel product, not the supply levels of specific sources of the hydrocarbons used to make the fuels. The final price of fuel will reflect not only the cost of the raw materials but also the capital investment and costs of operating the extraction, processing and refining process.
++++ ding ding ding, we have a winner. What's that company successfully making gasoline from nat gas - Siluria or something?
But, peak oil is useful to the draconian minded pro gubmit folks........
http://www.siluria.com/