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Russia Says It Has Evidence From Ukraine Military Defector Kiev Was Responsible For MH-17 Crash
Back in July it was all everyone could talk about: who shot down Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17 flying over east Ukraine? A hurriedly-prepared official report (by Western authorities) quickly put the blame on Russia, ignoring any suggestion the downing may have been the result of a Ukraine fighter jet, and said the catastrophe was the result of a Russian-made missile shot by Russian separatists. Then the story promptly disappeared. Russia, however, continued digging, and overnight, Russia’s Investigative Committee says it has uncovered evidence Ukraine was involved in the crash citing a military defector from the Ukraine.
The RIC said, as summarized by Bloomberg, that it interrogated a Ukraine military defector who has evidence the Boeing jet shot down in July may have been targeted by Ukrainian military SU-25 plane, according to website statement. The witness claims to have spoken to SU-25’s pilot, according to whom the SU-25 in question was carrying R-60 air-to-air missiles. The SU-25 returned to base after flight without its missiles. The pilot summarized that "MH-17 was in wrong place at wrong time." Tell that to the families of over two hundred innocent casualties of war.
The Committee statement adds that Russia may provide witness state protection and that Russian investigators ready to share data with international crash investigators.
Some further details in AFP's coverage of the topic: "The witness, who was not named, worked at an airfield in the Ukrainian city of Dnipropetrovsk where he claimed to have seen a warplane take off on July 17 with air-to-air missiles and return without them. An Investigative Committee statement said the testimony of the man "is important proof that Ukrainian military was implicated in the crash of the Boeing-777".
The statement by investigators came the same day that Kiev and the separatists were to hold a new round of ceasefire talks, and shortly after Russian tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda published an interview with the "secret witness" who said he worked at the airport on the day the Boeing 777 was downed.
The man, who was filmed by the newspaper with his back to the camera and even the back of his head blurred, said he saw a Sukhoi-25 jet take off armed with air-to-air rockets and return to the base without them.
"[The plane's operator] could have launched them into the Boeing out of fear or revenge," the witness said, identifying the pilot of the jet as having the surname Voloshin. "Maybe he mistook it for another plane."
Komsomolskaya Pravda claimed the witness showed up at its office by himself and that his identity checks out, but did not identify him because his family is still in Ukraine.
The investigative committee said the man — who was now officially a witness — could be enrolled in a witness protection program.
Here is the full statement from the Investigative Committee, google translated:
Investigators last night they were able to meet with the Ukrainian military defector, who confirms that voluntarily left the military unit and moved into the territory of the Russian Federation.
He told investigators about the last days of service in one of the units of the Air Force of Ukraine. From the way he behaved, what facts the voice, the investigators did not have doubts in sincerity and awareness of the witness of the events that took place in the military unit.
From the testimony of the witness now, that in order to ensure its safety aliased, civil aircraft "Boeing 777" Flight MH-17 could be brought down by July 17 of this year, combat aircraft SU-25 Ukrainian Air Force, piloted by Captain Ukrainian Air Force pilot Voloshin. In this case, sortie was carried from the airport, stationed near the city of Dnipropetrovsk. it is at this airfield served as a witness. According to his testimony, he personally saw the plane before takeoff Voloshin was fused rockets "air-to-air" type R-60, which in normal conditions the implementation of sorties Su-25 do not fit. As the witness said, in a similar outfit aircraft simply was not necessary, as the representatives of the people's militia armed with no aviation.
The witness immediately noticed that on his return to the airfield aircraft missiles in the equipment of the aircraft has no, and then he distinctly heard the words of the pilot Voloshin, said one of his colleagues: "He - the plane - was not at the time and in the wrong place."
Those facts and information, which are located and which are clearly not being confused, the witness said, convince investigators that his testimony true, by the way, and confirmed research on polygraph. For the investigation of these readings are very important, and most importantly, that they coincide with the data that were available for investigators from other sources and confirm the fact of being in the air Ukrainian Su-25 during the crash "Boeing." In particular, from the testimony of several witnesses - Ukrainian citizens living in the area of impact "Boeing 777", it follows that shortly before the crash they saw in the sky in the vicinity of the passenger liner military aircraft.
Thus, the testimony of a witness are not the only one, but a very important proof that a collapse of the "Boeing" Ukrainian armed forces are involved.
As a witness may be in danger, the investigation decides whether to grant him state protection for the witness protection program.
Investigation Committee will be to continue to collect and analyze all the data about the crash. In this case, if the representatives of the international commission investigating the crash that actually interested in establishing the truth and turn to us, we are ready to provide all available materials.
The full interview that took place on Komsomolskaya Pravda with the alleged defector, along with supporting materials, can be found here. Sadly in the end this is just more verbal allegations and more "he said, she said" accusations, in what will almost surely remain an unresolved crash in which over 200 innocent people were the now deceased pawns in a lethal realpolitik game in which the cost of a human life is nothing.
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Really? Almost as bad as Obama's evidence.
what is "Obama's evidence."? Am i missed something?
Look who benefitted the most from this incident.
Recently, Congress passed H. RES. 758 billed as a resolution “strongly condemning the actions of the Russian Federation. The bill is nothing more than 16 pages of war mongering and propaganda. It lacks any evidence of the things it accuses Russia of doing. For example, it states with certainty that the Malaysia Airlines flight 17 that crashed in Ukraine was brought down by a missile “fired by Russian-backed separatist forces in eastern Ukraine.” This is simply incorrect, as the final report on the investigation of this tragedy will not even be released until next year and the preliminary report did not state that a missile brought down the plane or assign blame to any side. If anything, there is more evidence that it was not Russia who was behind this terrible tragedy.
In essence, if HR 758, if it were to become law, would provide a green light to the President to declare war on Russian, without the formal permission of the US Congress. This could easily be interpreted as unconstitutional in that it contravenes Article 1, Section 8, of the US Constitution which vests in the Congress with the Power to declare war.
The fact that there has been a virtual total media blackout on this subject is equally disturbing. The American people need to know what their government is doing and have their say.
You can't make this stuff up.
BINGO...
WHERE ARE THE AIR TRAFFIC Control Tapes ??? Still Confiscated And Never Released!
Gee, I WONDERS WHY???
<=== Shot Down By Ukraine Air Force...
<=== Shot Down By Russian Rebels On Ground...
This should be easy.
The BUK-11 has a different fragmentation pattern than the R-60.
Also the R-60 has a tiny 6 lb warhead, which can only cause a limited amount of damage compared to the BUK-11. Evidence and simple forensics could solve all of this, why is it *not* being done??
cos the "Investigators" decided secrecy
"Investigators" ...lol
All these "investiators" are criminals for what they are truly doing.. preventing justice and serving NATO.
When change finally comes may they be hunted down like the nazis they are for their crimes against humanity, tried and hung from the light poles.
Five months later and still no tapes or transcripts.
Being protected by Brussels and Wall Street.
Can't endanger bankster/M.I.C. profits!
If the Americans had SOLID proof that Russia was behind the MH-17, the captive western media would be screaming it 24 hours a day, 7 days per week. Instead we have mostly silence met by the occasional faked video or unsubstantiated unattributable remark.
MH 17 was failed false flag, similar to the Gulf of Tonkin, a pretext used by the USSA to initiate war. Maybe some day we will learn why the plane was sent into the kill zone, deliberately diverted.
Precisely. Most telling is what they DON'T say.
Hmmmm, could it be because Putin's plane was on an almost exact vector but off by a couple of hours... nah, that couldn't be it...
FREE TO JOIN!!
https://www.gunsgrubandgold.com
So has anyone done autopsies on the pilots' bodies ? Were there any pilots on board ?
I dont think there were any pilots on board. I think that MH17 was in fact MH370 renumbered. This would explain the existance of bodies that were described as not "fresh" by the East Ukrainians that first found the crash site. The plane was remotely piloted as all 777's can be.
My theroy is that someone commandeered MH370 and remotely took it to 40,000 feet and depressurized the plane killing all aboard and then landed at Deigo Garcia. From there they took it to Amsterdam, loaded it with passengers and then to Ukraine where it was shot down. Just a theroy.
Except you have to explain why Malaysia is missing 2 planes, not 1.
My theory is that Israel destroyed both to punish Malaysia.
http://rehmat1.com/2013/12/02/war-crimes-court-finds-israel-guilty-of-ge...
And that's not just my theory.
Indigo55, That's a good point about the other two pilots. To me it seems that this atrocity was planned well in advance, that MH17 was overtaken in flight some way, steered toward the three jets, two get downed as planned, the third pilot thinks they're all under attack and unleashes the missile at what he thinks is the enemy.
Who knows what instrumentation he saw or what he heard. All of this must have happened in a very short period of time. He would be safer in Russia now than where he is, where he can be watched closely.
Sandmann
more on the pilot autopsy
which would (if released) show if killed by bullets or bullet fragments
http://www.globalresearch.ca/another-mh17-cover-up-hiding-a-key-autopsy/...
note: the "impartial investigators" agreed beforehand NOT to release the report
UNLESS the possible guilty KIEV authorities (i.e. the US) agreed to the release.
"MH17: Captain Wan Amran’s wife glad to have remains back on his birthday"
http://news.abnxcess.com/2014/09/mh17-captain-wan-amrans-wife-glad-to-ha...
But still no word of any autopsy, if indeed it was a buk, judging by the amount of damage to the cockpit area one would expect to find some fragments in the bodies of the flight crew and if that were the case the Western "investigators" would no doubt be screaming it out loud, not some bullshit like "MH17 crash caused by objects penetrating aircraft from outside".
Six pounds of modern high explosive is nothing to sneeze at, especially if it is encased in some sort of fragmenting material. I read that one of the first qualified crash inspectors at the site reported round holes consistant with aircraft mounted cannon hits. That is why the report is being done in secret and Ukraine can block the release of any evidence they perceive as being damaging.
Something totally anti decency, anti life has taken control of that nation. My sincerest sympathy to it's citizens. Then again, my nation is up to it's neck in this dirty matter. Clearly the same bunch run "America". My sympathy to all the peoples of this planet.
To be fair, you need a third choice: Shot Down by Ukrainian BUK system.
That's my bet. Ukraine military screwed up again.
Why would the Ukranian military have BUK missiles in the area? The separatists don't have any planes to fly.
The Ukies think Russia has aircraft and flies them within firing range 150km
.
Good question. Awaiting answer from Kiev Junta since 5 months now.
It was a system that could also attack ground targets, the BUK-kake 1000.
Dumb question considering the thirty or so Russian invasions Kiev has told of...
any surface to air launch would have had a telltale exhaust behind it. there was none, so SA is ruled right out.
But the defector can . . . and he'd better keep on doing it if he wants to stay non-radioactive and out of Putin's prisons.
Better send him to the States where some exquisite interrogation techniques can be applied.
Water-board On
Notice how Harrison Troll after 4 years of membership on ZH, he/it decides to post anti russian commentary.
This is a similar pattern with many other trolls on ZH. Some entity must be testing dormant ZH accounts for weak passwords, and then hijacking the account. I wonder who.....cough USSA state department. cough.....
Many people use the same password on multiple sites (something easy to remember, typically). Once their account is breached on one website, they are all compromised.
If Russia's claim is true, then it means that this is state terrorism (worse than Lockerbie), and is something that the U.S. should and would 'sanction' and prosecute. Get it, "sanction"?
US sanctions against Ukraine begin in 18 trillion minus 1, minus 2, minus 3...
You say that but NATO is.
"The American people need to know what their government is doing and have their say." Americans do have their say and it is recorded every minute by the NSA.
I do think that we have a Government grasping at anything they can to foist a new military conflict, escalating into full blown combat. Look at how we spent Millions in a propaganda Campaign in the Ukraine, firmly rejecting the EU initiative and then we follow up the results calling it a fixed vote. Then, we immediately beging a campaign to urge US to VILIFY Russia, convince the EU nations to sanction Putin...and then in the context of our failure to deal with the Syrian Pipeline issue over a year ago, the bigger picture surely, we are now doing everything we can to make Putin look like a Nutcase....and all the while, China courts Russia, India and the other BRICS, and we have a Government here fully committed to war? IT IS LEADING UP TO A VERY SCARY SCENARIO. It is unclear where we want this to go, but if it happens, currency issues follow, a ONE-FIAT world-wide will be userered in, and we all suffer from a currency devaluation that no one wants to see coming (right up!). I am not a person a generally influenced to believe that we are as bad as we are, but the EVENTS we are all witnessing, ALONG with ABC/CBS/NBC and to some extent Al Jazeera, and all parroting the narrative, and it is clear that this SHIT-CROCK of a Goverment wants war now, wants to prevent a Petro-Dollar Collapse and will go to war just on that alone.
In that vein, the Sony hack has also led to a shift back to a hostile approach to North Korea... so it smells of false flag too. After all, which countries have the capability to carry out that hack (undetected for many months) ? And who has benefited from the uproar?
Hmmm that would be the MIC in the US.... no one else benefits from the increased tension,
I guess my sarcasm needs work, I was hoping the East would come with something more credible than this, not stoop to the same level
Credibale - live person is not a credible? mb you wanted missed audiotapes from Ukrainian air traffic controllers? or
actual video?
I think that photo and video evidence will realised late
West doesn't have a shit because west not even mention this anymore.
Yes actually I was hoping for the audio or video. That's what it will take to put this thing to rest.
Next you'll be telling us that it's a fake, you were not there, how can you know?
How about a cartoon?
Presenting
Cue dramatic music...
SUPER PUTIN!
http://www.superputin.ru/englishski/
Scene 3, there is a cartoon plane zipping away after destroying the Terrorist Lair!
Rock Solid Proof.
A Heart Felt Chrismas Gift from Scrappy to ZH'rs Everywhere!
It's a RUSSIAN CARTOON down voters, I actually respect the man.
That does not mean I trust him, but with "verification" I might - some.
Here is his short bio in pics,
http://uk.businessinsider.com/vladimir-putin-most-powerful-person-czar-2...
From the very beginning of the history of the West is trying to lie. Remember lie with photos missiles that supposedly shot down a Boeing? It later emerged that it is the Ukrainian missiles and this photo was taken in the territory which is under the control of Kiev.
But each next and each new lie of the West, step by step, always was refuted from side of Russians.
It's a charlie brown world after all.
Of course everyone knows that the best time to release this information is on Christmas Eve. Hmmmmm, wasn't there something I was supposed to be doing right now?
It is not Christmas Eve in Russia.
That is two weeks from now.
Has there been a single piece of schrapnel recovered from the warhead of the missile that downed this airliner? You would think there would have been at least a single piece embedded within the airliners wreakage. It should not be that problematic at all to compare the components and residues from an exploded R-60 air to air missile (which has a 3 kilogram warhead) verses that of a S-11 SAM (which has a 70 kilogram warhead) and find out forensically which weapon was used.
Credible.
Witness passed all stress test, questioning and polygraph, analysts work from this...
Witness has security protection in Russian Federation.
from AirForce Officer Lady friend...
fake, like you
No. A live person means nothing. Exhibit A.
He said it happened and he doesnt lie
much
A plentiful supply of irrefutable YouTube videos(!)
kowalli
Obama has all the evidence he needs.
After Russia publicly released their evidence that Kiev jets were shadowing MH17,
Russia asked the US to release the images from the US spy satellite that was known to be directly overhead where the airliner was downed.
The US has refused to release the images, for "security reasons".
Why The Secrecy ?
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/12/19/why-the-secrecy-on-the-mh17-inves...
We fooled some folks (didn't work well)....
More than some folks got fooled.
http://tass.ru/en/world/768736
The Dow is up another 50!! woohoo!!, who cares about some plane crash that happened months ago
You've seen all the evidence and know the truth? Incredible!!!!!
No need to talk about Obama, where the negotiations from the cockpit? Why do it still have not been made public?
Did US intelligence need so much time to rig the negotiations with the second one pilot and dispatcher in Kiev?
Oh yes, the Russians may have to publish original recording of these negotiations, is not it? Oh shit, Russians again showed the world Washington and Obama as liars and murderers!
Putin and a "captured Ukrainian???" Right, and they're also selling shares in the Golden Gate Bridge today at a half off! (It's a special Xmas sale).
I think I'd believe that Bill Cosby is a serial rapist before I'd believe that. Oh, wait....
Bill Cosby ravaged me, and then he ravaged me again, and then never called me back. Bastard!
"I'm going to tell my daddy that you raped me twice."
"But we only did it once."
"Well, you're going to do it again aren't you?"
- old Dave Allen sketch. Just had a quick look on the net, couldn't find a link. (Can't bloody find anything. Anyone out there better at using search engines?)
Dave Allen reference, probably lost on most Ameros, one of the best...Thanks
That missing finger in the Scotch always cracked me up.
"May your God go with you".
A very intelligent, and very observant comedian, from an era where such abilities were expected
Nowadays ? ? ? ? . . .. .
Of course. Secrets don't age well. Wake me up when they ID the pilot as a CIA contractor; t hat's their style.
The pilot that did this was shot down with a nail gun last week
um, yeah, we "tinfoil hatters" knew that from the beginning.
Ya see...whutchya do is take the exact opposite of everything our treasonous gov-scum, sociopaths say to us and that's always the real truth.
It's real easy.
It is real easy. And it works real fine.
That's a bit of a fucking problem, isn't it, in the land of the free. What the fuck happened?
Santa doesn't stand a chance.
No worry's, that sleigh has twin 30mm canon.
Santa is a euro mall pussie....compared to Ded Moroz
now Ukr government plans to adopt eurosanta......
GrandFather Frost and Ice Princess can defend themselves:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-29/russia-wishes-nato-happy-new-year-only-russia-can
I'm still waiting on the last evidence.
It doesn't matter. There was a trial by press and Russia was found guilty. No amount of truth is going to change this verdict.
There was a trial by press judgement by oligarch media ...
they don't need no stinkin evidence
strikeout trial by press not working ?
Just what the hell is a trial by press, you pretend to be live but we're not seen by the public?
Where the media print bollocks about something and then the sheeple believe it regardless of evidence.
Correct. Which is why the "Trial by Media" (where Perception IS Reality) must be fought in the international arena.
To date, the Russians have shown themselves to be (acted as) the local truth-seeking paper against the national paper.
If they have something solid, they need to make a LOT more noise to overcome the U.S. propaganda.
Que Hillary:: What difference does it make?
"Cue."
¿lo que me preocupa?
Cuent.
queue
This world is not going to get back on track until the deaths of the guilty outnumber the deaths of the innocent.
Link to the interview on YouTube with English subtitles:
http://youtu.be/qiH8KZOfNfg
Unfortunately US Mainstream Media is too preoccupied interviewing Al Sharpton and other race baiters to cover the latest development in the MH-17 story. Besides:
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.” –Upton Sinclair
How are we supposed to take this seriously when the "reporters" don't look like models. Sheesh!
Yup, if they aren't talking in MSM-approved soundbites, they are obviously not professionals.
Flannel shirts? No high heels? No red lipstick? Where's the credibility?
It's almost like those guys think the message is more important than the messenger. Obviously never got their journalism major in a USSA college.
If only this was the appetizer and the main course would be Voloshin himself - extradicted to Russia and giving a full break-down of what happened on that dreadful day...
I think he is dead already.
But if he was dead, would'nt he have found a way to tell ya? That's a serious issue one doesn't want to be on the wrong end of.
We Voloshined some folks.
I heard the US military "accidentally" shot down Santa over Diego Garcia.
It must have been a near miss. NORAD puts Santa over Australia atm.
Lets hope they're better at tracking Santa than 911 hijackers.
And dont forget malaysian airliners.
Yes but he survived - the good news is that after exrtensive waterboarding and a debriefing - they let him go in time for Christmas. He will be escorted by a fleet of navy black helicopters so his reindeer will not stray off track. Watch carefully though - one of the options being considered is to redirect his course over Eastern Ukraine -or possibly Damascus.
Trolls are a little slow this morning. Patience, I'm sure we will soon see them.
Holiday pay cuts into the propaganda bottom line. While the printing press is infinite each department budget is not.
Seems reasonable. Explains the absence of the tarabel kookhrana.
This is the season that used to be advertised as "peace and goodwill".
I think our friends in Russia are demonstrating that more than the ignorant, self serving, evil doers in DC.
That is a personal opinion based on what I have read and experienced in life.
I wish you all a Merry Christmas and hope there is a peaceful regime change in DC and the system is changed from war to peace, bullshit to truth, greed to compassion, contempt to respect.
Russia is successfully building a case for invasion.
You mean, invasion of Russia?
I think you're right. And I also think the neocons would be well served to look at a little history. Napoleon, the Kaiser, and Hitler come to mind, when one is thinking of invading Russia.
Kaiser did not invade Russia itself - Ludendorff simply put Lenin in power and funded him
West overthrew the Tsar in Russia and delivered to the power of Lenin, who was a communist. But now the West criticizes Russia for communism, for Lenin and for his follower - Stalin, is not it?
Is not this hypocrisy in highest form?
The lack of news lends me to believe that Russia did not do it (or its separatist buddies). If there was clear-cut evidence that Russia (or its proxies) did it, we'd never hear the end of it in the West.
What a joke. And so much for "democracy".
I am still waiting for any russians to dare doubt Putin's "evidence", he totally makes up.
10, 9, 8.....
Anytime now.
The risk:
Being baked alive inside a pizza oven. Putin's favorite punishment style
ekm1, the evidence that this plane was shot down by a Ukraine jet is fairly obvious. You're a smart guy. Why can you think critically upon other subject matter, but on this you go full retard in believing the MSM horseshit? I am not saying this as pro-Putin who I see as another bully leader protecting oligarchs.....
Why does it matter? So much blame to go around it's not even funny.
Let's start with Malaysian Airlines who deliberately filed a flight plan over a war zone (they tempted fate again a week later by flying over Syria).
We can blame Euro air traffic control which allowed the flight plan in the first place.
We can blame Ukrainian air traffic control for diverting this one flight further north than all other flights before it since hostilities began. Why did this flight "buck that trend?"
We can blame the Ukrainian government for not closing off that piece of air space. Doesn't matter if they deliberately kept it open hoping for an incident like this or too braindead to realize this could happen. Just another example of why that government has to go. They screamed and complained that Russia was dumping in arms. Really? Then why did these cocks**kers leave the air space open? Again, it was either deliberate (war crime) or incompetence. I can't believe people aren't screaming for these bozos to be removed from power. Twentifirst century is going to have two major scarcities: fresh water and competent people.
We can blame the Russians for not taking the demand for a no-fly zone over the Donetsk region following the Libyan precdent. Unlike in Libya, there was ample proof that Ukraine was using air strikes against "their own people." Ukraine's "anti-terrorism operation" was far more destructive and reliant on collective punishment and artillery fire and hit on a scale multiples of orders worse than Benghazi ever saw... The chances of that passing the UNSC is somewhere between 0 and 0.0 *but* it would allow Russia (and others) to say: "see, we told you and this wouldn't have happened if we applied the same medicine in Ukraine."
they did not file a plan over a war zone, it was changed mid flight.
The rest of your post is too inane and ignorant to bother with.
Sorry, but the airline claims that the flightplan was correct and if there was a change, it was minor. They submitted the plan to European air traffic control (so they could save on fuel costs is my bet).
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh...
The point of the matter is there are so many more people to blame for this incident than Russia or Putin.
That plane should NEVER have been allowed to go over and to do so was clearly looking for trouble.
Evidence?
It takes years and millions of dollars to prove a murder, let alone such thing as this
Hilarious. Evidence?
lolololololol
I like the pizza oven touch. I don't believe it, but it is a nice addition to Putin's legend. Did you hear the one about the scorpion pit?
I thought it was sharks with laser beams attached to their heads...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh5Lh-tTSZQ
Hold onto your mother fucking hat for this one.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2875968/ISIS-using-bombs-contain...
Evidence? You want some evidence?
Take a close look at the hi-res images of the fuselage section around the cockpit and notice many round bullet holes - entrance and exit holes - that came from a 30mm cannon which is a standard fitment to Ukraine's Su-25 fighter planes.
Then take a look at the BBC video (quickly removed from their website) of an interview of two eye witnesses where they heard several v/loud bangs in the sky above them and looked up to see several fighter jets.
Ask yourself where are the Kiev ATC tapes and why did the British empty suit Cameron not publish the contents of the MH-17 black boxes.
Whatever the reason for the shoot down - perhaps it was thought to be Putin's plane or it was intended to shoot down any plane on the Russian side of the border to publicly crucify him - realistically there is very little doubt as to who was responsible: Poroshenko, CIA, State Dept and all those who support the fascist govt in Kiev.
That's why Western govs have launched a giant cover-up campaign.
Thank you for succinctly making my point.
A Very Merry Christmas to you IridiumRebel and to all the captivating commenters and Tylers who make ZeroHedge the best known real news service available.
And A Happy New year.
I find that emk has two states: either brilliant or moronic.
Today does not look brilliant for him. Alas.
Just look at the facts in the official report! The sky was covered with high clouds at that place where the plane was shoot done. There is even a satellite picture of the weather conditions in the official released report!
So tell me how can you shut down a plane with a BUK WITHOUT a leading radar??! It is impossible"!! So even if the plane was shut down from ground it would need the leading radar vehicle. And the only ones who had them were the military from Ukraine. And on top of this the only one who operated a leading BUK radar vehicle on that day were ??? yes, again the military of the Ukraine.
All this information is public and not from Russian source but from western media. So if you are not a troll you have to start thinking about the official msn version.
Yea,,, the u.s only uses 'enhanced' interogation. Much more humane... No?
I'm sure yahoo and bloomburg will be all over this to issue a retraction and official apology....
Yea proably print the same day NYT apologizes for repeating FBI nonsense about the North Koreans.
The last time Ukraine shot down a civilian plane with a BUK, it took one year before they finally admit they've done so.
And after that ( and because it was a mistake), they've said they're done with BUK system, because they didn't had expertise to use them, and didn't wanted to pay for being taught.
So based on that historical precedent, and in the context of being supported to wage a proxy war against Russia, it may take years before they ever consider to admit they did it - should it be on purpose or more probably by mistake.
On the other hand, it's clear Russia have much more evidence than they have released so far, and will use it from time to time, as to remind everyone how fake the story sold by MSM and USA really is.
"On the other hand, it's clear Russia have much more evidence than they have released so far, and will use it from time to time, as to remind everyone how fake the story sold by MSM and USA really is."
I hope not. Puts Russia in a poor light to do what people constantly point out how the US establishment does things.
....and ZeroHedge parrots everything that th e Russian state says, no matter how ridiculous
Yeah. Notice how neither side wants to provide proof of anything? Of course most of the hard evidence belongs to the West. Odd, huh?
The NSA can tell us when you whack off to porn but, for some strange reason, can not provide satellite, email, phone, air traffic control or any other evidence to prove that Russia did this even as every other government agency and department in the US continues to insist it was Russia.
Based on that, either US intel is not as good as it claims or they lie. Which is it?
If US intel was really that good, it would have noticed a few of the rants before the murders that have taken place lately.
US intelligence agencies are mis named. Bullshit is better, but doesn't look that nice on a logo.
The crash was also on the last day of joint exercises between NATO and hte Ukraine, was it not?
No f**king way NATO has any proof of what they say or they would have released it; I see no genuine reason why they would withhold such information since they could score points. NATO's capabilties are not as they claim. The only remote possibility is that if NATO did have evidence of Ukrainian air force actions against MH17, we would have likely seen a leak especially if the Cold War 2.0 rhetoric began to get red hot.
That piece of sky was probably lit with so much radar and so much aerial surveillence...
Must be a problem with the intel. remember how ISIS caught them absolutely by surprise?
it's not ZeroHedge - it's western media go full retard and ignore news
Sort of like the MSM in the u.s and Eu parroting everything the u.s state has to say, no matter how ridiculous?
Zerohedge has really fallen into a conspiracy-plot rabbit hole on this issue. Pity.....
This is not a conspircay . Google Ukrainian pilot himself claimed he shot down the plane
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2886263/Ukrainian-military-worke...
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/12/23/ukraine-pilot-reveals-kiev-plane...
With statements like yours konaguy, the burden of proof immediately falls upon You to provide evidence or at least, substantiate your position to a level beyond slinging hash.
Well, you don't actually have any corroboration. The article admits that it is only testimony. Besides, the endless efforts to debunk Russion involvement (BUK fired by Ukraine, US shootdown, Ukrainian shootdown, bomb in airplane) are all mutally exclusive. You can't argue that a Ukrainian BUK shot down the plane AND a jet also did it! Apologists throw up "evidence", meaning unsubstantiated theories which dramatically diverge from each other. Get your story striaght and try to stick to one theory, okay?
well this will spoil christmas for a few in high places.
they thought the non-response lately from putin on this matter was good news.
now their scared, they know putin, and figure hes not only got voloshin, putin has his boss, and probably his boss too.
It is all nice to point fingers after the fact. I was there in Malaysia when all this shit went down. They are not an aggressive race of people, fortunately for the rest of the world, and they quietly mourned the loss.
The 280 or so people that died were like all people caught in the propaganda of "who done it" bull shit. As long as it doesn't happen to us or my family, "who cares". I would care if it were my family member or members who perished as a result of some jackasses trigger finger.
As for the "who done it", a moot point now.
Voloshin or whoever is responsible for the shut down. What kind of person can shoot a missile on a passenger plane? How can this person life with what he had done? I mean even psychopaths have limits.
Oh... one moment - I forgot, the same type of people who were responsible for 9/11 or sending troops to Irak & Afghanistan, killing children with drones have the same character.
The story fits well, as German government refuses to publish the BND report, supposedly due to security issues and also because governor Merkel has to kiss the ass of Obama's henchmen.
EU In Total Horror As Russia Prepares New “Anti Nazi (torture) Law”
A stunning report prepared by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MoFA) circulating in the Kremlin today states that European Union (EU) foreign diplomats were left in “total horror” this past week after being alerted by their Russian counterparts to the catastrophic effects upon the NATO Alliance due to a proposed Federation Council (FC) law outlawing the sale of energy supplies to any nation that is now/or has been engaged in Nazi-like torture of prisoners of war or its own citizens.
According to this report, the Federation Council (the upper house of the parliament of the Russian Federation) began the adoption of this new “Nazi Law” under orders given by President Putin after the United States refused to heed Russia’s 14 December warning of retaliation against the imposition of additional sanctions by President Obama’s signing of a new Russian sanctions law on 18 December.
The proposed new “Nazi Law” being written by the FC, this report continues, would specifically forbid the sale of Russian natural gas, oil, oil by-products (and other such natural resources of the Federation) to any nation, or military alliance of nations, that: 1.) Has failed to support the United Nations resolution condemning attempts to glorify Nazism ideology and denial of German Nazi war crimes; 2.) Has used Nazi torture techniques against POW’s and/or civilians; and 3.) Has conducted mass executions of unarmed civilians.
http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1827.htm
sensation, but not credible source
Did you really post a David Booth / Sorcha Fall / Sucha Fail article? What-does-it-really-mean? Total credible bull shit for brainless sheeple.
If only.
Although I remain cautiously optimistic, I also remain skeptical that Putin will do anything with teeth and claws.
Ever since Black Monday, I fear/sense that he's been leashed. We need to see the "Putinjango Unchained", not "Poutine for Dinner".
And while Russia is at it in the "evidence department"...
Why don't they start making very public what they knew about the "hijackers" leading up to th 9/11 attacks and the warning the FSB was spoon feeding the IC in the United States?
Wonder where those recorded conversation went to all the way back to the G7 meeting(s) in Genoa two months before it changed everything???
People who has for long time decided to BE DIS_INFORM, this is not for you!
Please go back to your CNN and continuo’s burn some more Neurons or what a little left you have on your BRAIN...
Witness saw no rocket from ground flying towards the plane, no trail, no sound, NADA...
Good luck! you have Zero… here to boost your INTELIGENCE!
Saludos...And Watch this at least the music is good in case do not like the video .At the end of time index a nice letter if you like to read..
{http://bit.ly/1pMCQv5 }
To finish:
{http://bit.ly/1oaLi2B }
The CIA will release the Ukrainian ATC tapes as soon as they 'clean up the static' on them.
does not help
ATC was recorded by Russia as well, they have there a full mission since one year, ATC traffic can be listened to by everybody. russians have it sure, they just wait, what a nonsense the western democracy is going to publish; at that moment they put on the table their recordings, I suppose.