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Civil Asset Forfeiture: The Final Stage Of Collapse Of Empire
Submitted by Martin Armstrong via Armstrong Economics,
Only the Rich Can Afford to Keep Their Homes
Philadelphia prosecutors agreed last Thursday to halt efforts to seize the homes of two of the lead plaintiffs in a widely publicized federal suit challenging the city’s use of civil forfeiture laws in drug cases.
Philadelphia drops a Civil Asset Forfeiture case to prevent any court from ruling just seizing people’s property is unconstitutional. Phily.COM has reported the case of Christos Sourovelis and Doila Welch,who were both caught up in having their homes seized to pay police pensions when the police arrested a relative they claimed was dealing drugs on their properties. Today, you basically have to shun relatives and never pick up a hick-hiker in trouble for if they have any drugs, even marijuana, there goes your assets.
The prosecutors, only after these people has money for lawyers and the press got involved, moved for dismissal in Common Pleas Court. The prosecutor agreed to drop the cases against properties as long as both owners took “reasonable measures” to ensure no further drug crimes occurred there.
Here is the entire problem. Only the rich can win for it is your burden to fork-over huge legal fees. If you do not have the money for lawyers, there goes your property. This is what is desperately wrong in America. Any law passed becomes your burden to prove it is unconstitutional. They can actually pass the ancient right of kings under the Common Law since there is precedent known as Prima Noctum – first night. The governor, mayor, county freeholder, whoever, could “legally” claim the right to spend the first night in bed with any women getting married in their district. It would then become your burden to say – NO. That is uncivilized.
There is ABSOLUTELY nothing as it now stands for them to pass such a law. It is then the public’s burden to say no way and fight. This is seriously wrong within out legal system. This allows police to kill people randomly or to pull every person over on their way to work to see if they have all their identification. Whatever they do is OK because they do not FIRST have to go to some constitutional court and ask – is this law justified? Consequently, only the rich can defend the constitution. All others can pray – that’s about it.
This is the final stage of the collapse of the Roman Empire. When the state runs out of money, it historically attacks the people. In Rome, whole armies began sacking their own cities to get paid. The police are doing just that. Whatever they can confiscate goes to funding their own pensions. This is a national problem that will only get much worse going into 2020. We have NOBODY in Washington representing the people any more. It is all about them v the people. This is why we will see a rise in third-party activity for 2016.
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now this just seems like blatant propaganda to me:
http://www.philiacband.com/propaganda.html
"Philadelphia drops a Civil Asset Forfeiture case to prevent any court from ruling just seizing people’s property is unconstitutional.....This is what is desperately wrong in America. Any law passed becomes your burden to prove it is unconstitutional. They can actually pass the ancient right of kings under the Common Law since there is precedent known as Prima Noctum – first night. The governor, mayor, county freeholder, whoever, could “legally” claim the right to spend the first night in bed with any women getting married in their district. It would then become your burden to say – NO. That is uncivilized. "
Speak English, Mick!
Have you seen Braveheart? If not, then watch it and come back when you've finished. You will be better for it.
"It would seem that every 80 years america has had a major catastrophe.... starting with the american revolution ( about 1780 )... then the civil war ( about 1860 ) then wwii ( about 1940 )... and now... we are here again....
every time worse... everytime much worse.... "
the hype of the possessing of the home... way much over estimated.
i prefer to get solid steel weaponry than wood house...
Uh, we see that you have many weapons stored at your house. A normal citizen would, at the most, only have one. Therefore we must assume that your stock of weapons indicate that you are involved in drug running, or something of similar nature. Therefore we must seize your stock of weapons, your house, since you store them there, and your car which must have been used during acquisition. Not to worry though, if you are, as you say simply a citizen guarding your house, you may sue to recover your items by filing a timely claim in Court, now move along please.
.
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Side conversation:
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"Hey Joe, listen to what goodies we can add to the, uh, "department collection"....."
.
. In all seriousness, today, one has to keep receipts of the acquisition of any cash, or cash equivalent items, be it gold/silver/guns/ammo/rare coins/stamps, etc. Those receipts must be available at a minute's notice for you you get caught with more than a minimum of the above, you risk having them seized, on the spot.
Where's Jessie Sharpton when you really need him?
"This is why we will see a rise in third-party activity for 2016."
I appreciate your optimism but I doubt 1 in 100 people are aware of this and think it is unconstitutional.
Fourth turning...
"This is why we will see a rise in hanging activity for 2016."
Fixed for ya.
The US is well into the 7th and final stage of Empire... Prepare accordingly...
The Chosenites and their cop thugs have turned America into a living fuckng nightmarish hell
“third-party activity for 2016”
Irrelevant.
What Americans need to understand, and start preparing for is when the “Petrodollar” collapses (2018), the price of oil and oil related products, gas, heating will become unaffordable.
All assets values will collapse
Layoffs will be on the millions
And this consumption oriented culture won’t be able to cope with, because they never saw it coming.
yep...hey stackers...show me your receipts? That's what I thought, you must have stolen all that gold.
In Houston, the Police have decided to start enforcing "parking near fire hydrant" violations, which they haven't EVER enforced in this city.
...but, the greatest confiscation will come and is coming in the form of taxes. When they double the property tax on your home, the resale value collapses...they won't care. That is the confiscation to beware of. Oh, so happy....look an asset bubble....you didn't earn that, thank you very much......ITS GONE.
If you have ANY type of "deed" to your house or property then you do not own it you just lease it and the county has total control over it , update your land patent and remove eniment domain.
guy, even owning a house, if you have no childs, when you dea,d cvountry get ground back, possessing is a fucking vue d'esprit. it's all i say.
and when i say gun prior home, when you lease a home, with a gun, you have much less problem than possessing a home without defending it.
ya gotta' sleep sometimez
WWII was a walk in the park compared to the Civil War. Russia, Germany, and Japan were the ones that bled in WWII. American propaganda misses the fact that the US didn't and entered the war very late.
True. The Civil War was just horrrible....what we inflicted upon ourselves.....for what again.....
States sovereignty. Edit: (The right of self determination)
The USG reigned supreme over the states after that boondoggle. Finished them off by replacing their militias with the federal national guard then eliminated their participation in the federal government with the 17th amendment. The period between the uncivil war and the beginning of WWI ended any resemblance of the founders republic.
Yeah but..but..but..we freed the slaves! We freed the slaves from eeeeeevil white racists and Lincoln is like the greatest POTUS ever!
wait...u call urself a troll magnet yet u ARE a troll. huh? ooh...u must be trying to attract MRS troll i get it now
The Revolutionary War heated up around 1775, the Civil War around 1856, WW2 around 1934 (think Japan)........we are at the 80 years now in terms of the turmoil preceding the explosion.
Rock and roll.
80 years is just enough time for generations to forget.
The Native Americans live for the next 7 generations - worth emulating.
Driven thru tribal lands lately. nothing much worth emulating?
hmm...wonder why.
Yeah, genocide's a bitch, ain't it?
Hey fuckheads!! Football is on!! It's pretty sick in this most free nation in History, you nit pick and criticize every supposed mistake of the tireless sentinels just selflessly striving to keep you free!!
This weekend determines if your team progresses to the final endgame of the SupperBowl!! Put on a better mans shirt, with his name emblazoned on the back, adjust it to sorta hide your burgeoning beer gut and wonder why you cannot get laid!!
If your team wins, you do too! If not, you can drown your tears with cheap domestic beers, and dream of a good pick in the draft! How's your fantasy team doing you f'in retard?
Actually saw an advertisement for some fantasy football service, with some white douche bags fantasizing they were involved in a football game with their heroes and only the iron stomach developed by butchering thousands of meat animals prevented me bazooka puking my chips and salsa all over the rotund and gap-toothed hostess.
Yessir! Taxpayer subsidized cultural genocide if I ever saw it! Man should never be on a permanent dole. EVER. It utterly annihilates whatever flimsy bits of character he was born with. Proof? Check out poor black American urban communities and the Native Americans.
80 years is just enough time for the 4th turning, you mean.
History doesn't repeat, but it rhymes.
Sounds like shitty rap now.
@ Publicus - Yeah, sure, in terms of US soldiers, yea, perhaps, but wake me up when the US loses 20+ million people and lies in rubble.
Detonation of "smaller" city-killer (countervalue) warheads over the top three US cities (NY, LA and Chicago) would take you over 3/4 way to your 20 million (based on 2013 census data). A single Russian Bulava MR SLBM (SS-N-30) can carry 6 (up to 10) such devices, so "just the one" SLBM could at least in theory very easily meet (and exceed) your "casualty target".
Which goes to show - just HOW crazy are the Pentagon / Whitehouse / Whitehall / NATO "Elite" in picking a war with Russia? It's almost as if they want global death and destruction (with significant population reduction . . . . oh, wait . . ! !)
Oops - slow ISP - Duplicate posting, "folks" ;-)
Yup worked well for Braveheart, he only got Hung, Drawn and Quartered!!
Just a flesh wound.
"They said you was hung!"
"And they was right."
Braveheart was killed, that's true.
But cowards must think they'll live forever.
I think the victory in that movie is Wallace knocking up the gay dauphin's wife.
That is better than offing the ruddy rex.
Braveheart was so historically innacurate I was mind boggled. What a load of excrement that movie was. I rate it below Disney's 'Pocahontas'. If you want to know the story, look up Nigel Tranter's 'The Wallace'
Braveheart is garbage.
YUP! Nigel Tranter excelled in that one....mind you, he probably added some juice to the story....but a damn good read. Don't expect anything from Hollywood ......for example , the cia saved the Iranian hostages, right?
Its a big club and we aren't in it!
The best movie featuring Hollywood's favourite ranter is 'Tropic Thunder'.
Never go full retard man.
Please please please do not cite that piece of crap as any kind of reference. It bears minimal resemblance beyond the names of the characters to the truth and to suugest it as some sort of beacon is dangerously misty eyed wrongheadedness.
Jus primae noctis (law of the first night) or droit du seigneur (the lord's right).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droit_du_seigneur
Martin needs a proofreader, but he is right about the direction of the trend in the New Rome.
Martin needs a proof-reader, but Tyler needs to cultivate writers who produce text worth reading.
Martin is capable of writing interesting stuff, but the above re-hash sure doesn't qualify. Hopefully, Martin and Tyler are publishing this shit on a pro bono basis; if actual money is changing hands, somebody is getting ripped off.
Come to think of it, if I can't tell who the patsy is, it's me.
This comes straight off Martin's feed. Nothing changes hands. ZH is an aggregator, and for my money a good one.
And Martin absolutely needs to hire a proof-reader.
Proof thinker, maybe.
Who sees, or has heard, an intrisic relationship between asset forfeiture and any third party movement. Seems only a lame closing.
When it's all said and done no one at any level will be able to claim ignorance. But when it gets to the point of rebalancing that most if not all ZHers are expecting, folks just ain't gonna give up the phyzz. Civil will be thrown out the door, and assets will not be able to be forfeited without extreme force.
You can't stop natural justice, all you can do is chose what side you're on.
‘give up the phyzz’
You won’t. Your wife will after she witnesses your teeth getting smashed on the curb in front of your house…. after that your neighbors will too.
American History X Curb Stomp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-CtLWb4wPQ
Domestic LEO forces will break down around the time that they'll want to go door to door taking shit. There simply aren't enough cops to go door to door with 50 cops at a time, When their pensions break down, door to door will be their only option for remaining cops, and by that time, enough people will understand that whether they're coming for your gold (unlikely during this time) or your food, that it is now a matter of survival to protect what they have.
In other words, we will become Mexico where policing is an entreprenurial endeavor.
In other, other words...if you're driving down the road with $10k in cash because you're headed out to buy a used truck from a guy in town and Rosco P. Coltrane decides that he's gonna confiscate it, you pull out your gat and spray his gray matter onto the asphalt.
There is only ONE WAY to deal with people who would violate your human rights. When they start fearing the people, then, and only then, will we be free.
Thing is, you better be right with Jesus when you decide to do it, 'cause you ain't comin' home that night...not that I disagree with you...bad actors need to be stopped.
I'd rather die a free man than live on my knees.
Hoka hey!
When you reduce your options to me vs the man, you have already lost the battle and the war...
I'm not talking about reducing options to me vs the man. I'm speaking to the context of the article and what people should do if a criminal with a badge tries to violate their natural rights.
Meat, wouldn't it make better sense to submit, hand over your cash and live?
Being alive means that you can then track those bastards down and take twice as much from their booty pile. Then either double tap them or if you don't want the noise to arouse their neighbours just go ISIS on them with a blunt knife.
Think and act like a resistance force and never attack when they are in control (your traffic stop) or you will just give them a paid holiday for killing you.
Shoot and scoot.
I like my chances against the modern day piggie, especially if I have the element of surprise. Get these bastards looking over their shoulders and/or thinking twice about a quick, daily civil forfeiture and we'll get somewhere.
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When I pay or recieve cash to sell a vehicle, I do it in a bank lobby in full public view. If I am getting paid, I just deposit the cash ... into my safe deposit box.
Regards,
Cooter
I thought the ZH way was to sink it in a lake..... Oh that is PM's, my bad....
I sunk my savings in my local lake here in CA. The water level dropped 180 feet due to the drought and somebody walking their dog found it
I have been training my dog (a beautiful all black German Shepard) to find Truffles. Apparently I have been stupid....
I hope you are not putting cash in a bank's safe deposit box. Poof.. It's gone. Store your cash at home in a "safe" place.
If you read the fine print on your safe deposit box agreement, you'll see that it states nothing of monetary value is supposed to be stored. Retarded right? Why the hell would I need a box in a bank's vault if it wasn't worth anything? Believe it or not, safe deposit boxes are for paperwork, and if the Feds ever find out you have thousands/hundred-thousands stashed in there you can be in trouble. The biggest threat being if say the Feds were searching the bank for "terrorist" activity, and they decided they need to pry open all the safe deposit boxes looking for weapons of mass destruction or something lame, and found your cash- it's gone!
>>>if the Feds ever find out you have thousands/hundred-thousands stashed in there...
As open-and-shut case of "structuring" fer sure.
I agree. I have thought long and hard if the State came to confiscate my home what I would do. My conclusion was to first poison my well, burn the house to the ground and then walk away with a backpack on my back, visiting a few rivers on my travels. If enough people were to do this and fought back, things would change. The problem is too many are consumed with fear and allow themselves to be subjugated in the hopes of safety and security. Once you realize there is no safety and nothing you own is truly yours unless challenged, you are free.
Miffed
Love ya Miffed, but poison the well? Burn the house to the ground? NEVER! After TSHTF, all FEDGOV employees and agents MUST be considered ENEMY COMBATANTS and treated as such. Give them lead sammiches until you have no more lead sammiches to serve. Then, it is Braveheart time.
I fail to understand people that refuse to accept reality... There is still plenty of time to liquidate all assets in a land controlled by a hostile regime and to relocate to a safe haven... Why destroy the assets which you have worked for when all you have to do is get out of the way...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4UFQWKjy_I
Please let us know which is the safe zone, free of Pelosi/Boehner zomboids?
Here's a hint, it's not in the USSA... Get out while you can...
Under that theory there have never been enough jack boots in hitory to do what they did.
The reality is that most people are sheep and will not fight. They wil cower in the corner and beg for their next EBT payment.
Uh, no. The social order is going to break down when supply chains break down. Tyrrany of the kind you're talking about requires a populace that cannot fight back.
A populace 'can' always fight back. But the (largely successful) history of tyranny suggests the vast majority of humanity will do almost anything but.
In war, hundreds of trained soldiers are routinely kept as prisoners of war in camps manned by a few dozen enemy guards. If they can't (or won't) organise a revolt, who the fuck can? The most they usually manage is piecemeal escapes... the rest just cling on to the hope that eventually the war will end and they get to go home to their loved ones (and mortgages).
They might have acted differently if they thought their captors were part of an effort to eliminate their homeland. People react differently when they believe they have little to lose. Evidence of this is the fact that invaders have never won a guerilla war. When average people have access to guns and are pushed to the wall, they always fight.
I believe that 3% of the population actually fought in the Revolutionary War, less than 20% fully supported it in most regards.
When the tide turns the sheep will follow.
I think it was about 50% after Thomas Paine got ripping
I heard it was about 1/3 rebel, 1/3 Tory, and 1/3 fence sitters.
Here's an interview with Bill Holter discussing liquidity freeze-ups and the death of the supply chain:
http://usawatchdog.com/financial-fantasy-land-continues-to-prevent-colla...
Great article/link, and worth the time to completely read...
"Holter contends, “It tells me that they know something. They know something we suspect, and they know something they don’t want to tell us. They know a crash is coming and they are preparing....
Holter closes by warning, “I suspect what is going to break are the derivatives, the $303 trillion in derivatives that the big banks have, and it will crash the world. This is not just a U.S. problem–this is an international problem. When this thing blows up, it will be unlike anything that has happened since the Great Depression and before. This will be the big one.”
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwOVbF17_U
Agreed ... along with genuine and thoughtful comments along with real life observations ... a bit like ZH pre-troll days
Late in the Roman empire, the govt needed revenue but the collection bureaucracy no longer had the integrity to ensure compliance of it's distant regions. Lots of tax revenue would go uncollected or missing.
Rome skirted the problem by hiring 'contractors' to perform tax collection. Rome would give these contractors numbers to meet and pay them a cut. These contractors devolved into mercenaries that would rape and pillage their respective regions. Mercenaries were bloodthirsty and sadistic madmen but Rome turned a blind eye as they were desparate for revenue.
I'm not sure how long it took for this devolution to occur. Given the state of Rome's financial affairs and the nasty nature of sociopathic leaders, probably a year or two.
We've all read stories about stashes of Roman-era wealth found in farm fields around Europe and the UK. Five or six silver coins may represent the life savings of an entire family. I'm sure some of these stashes were Roman-era Z-H'ers avoiding the mercenaries.
Will today's po-po become the equivalent of Roman tax collecting mercenaries? It looks like they've already started.
Perhaps it's time to find a productive village and begin building walls. Set up volunteer community policing and volunteer courts, staffed with citizens of the village. No lifetime appointments, no salaries, no pensions. Just average citizens doing their part to prepare for the god-awful mess we're headed for, and hopefully stifle the spread of misery.
The able men should take turns policing, and make it part time so they can attend to their other obligations. Unpaid as well. No careers in non-productivity.
Don't limit it to men. A 4'11" 85 lb woman that has confidence and shoots well is just as sharp on the pointy end.
One thing for sure--she's going to shoot, not fight. If someone doesn't get that then Darwin anticipated their fate.
Well, that maybe a bit to light to handle my Mossberg 500 and 30/40 Krag but point taken.
Miffed;-)
Like paying IRS agents bonuses based on their collections efforts?
At this very moment, I'm watching something on Public TV (the perils of depending on an aerial antenna) regarding a case in Childersburg, Alabama. This town contracts out collections of fines to a company called Judicial Corrections Services. If this company fails to collect, they issue arrest warrants and have the debtors jailed.
They are covering a case where a family has been hit with late fees and penalties for three traffic tickets (for which they were found not guilty) and are now in the hole for thousands of dollars. They've had warrants issued for their arrest. The guy is a preacher with a wife and kids.
Sounds Roman to me.
That family could get rich if they ever get picked up. Hell, they could make some FRNs if the city or the debt collector even reported the alleged debts on any credit reports. It is not a voluntary consumer debt. That's $1,000 PER violation of the FCRA. I would thouroughly enjoy being in that family's position. 3/4 of the complaint would already be drafted.
Sounds Jooish to me.
I think the primary purpose of these collections effort is not to be correct but to make an example of fighting the system. They might get recourse later but the here-and-now point is "This is what can happen to you if you do not pay up!".
There is no real distinction between tribute and taxes.
Gold has to be stored OUT side US borders, period!
Haven't you all learned yet?
US pass track record is pretty clear in what US will do.
Foreign governments will not steal your gold? If the US goes financially, so does the rest of the developed world. Are you going to store your gold in Europe? Because they're financially sound? They won't say "fuck foreigners, lets take their shit?" If you're going to store gold, it needs to be where no government can get to it, even if it means going out into BFE with a shovel and burying it.
Only if you're stupid enough to store your PMs in a foreign BANK... Or do we need to speak very slowly so that you understand?
Or any foreign institution. Foreign governments on the ropes will take your shit just as fast as the US government will. So, unless you're planning on moving to that foreign country, why is it any better than the US? I could hide gold where nobody would ever find it right here in the US.
I am soooooooooooo sick of hearing this bullshit statement about gold or silver must be stored outside the borders of your own country. It is nothing but propaganda and a scare tactic IMHO. You go right ahead and you do that my friend and when they come for you and everyone else you may take solace in knowing that your shit is somewhere where you can never get to it!
It's called diversitfication. If you want to leave the US and go somewhere where you are not a pauper perhaps having some assets stored outside the US borders makes sense. However ther is risk everywhere.
Agreed, If you are planning to leave the Country and denounce said citizenship. The statement I mentioned above still irritates the crap outta me.
renounce not denounce.
i denounce my usa citizenship all the time, but i haven't renounced it.
and it's not necessary to renounce it, to go live in another country and have assets there.
I am sorry HedgeHammer, I misspoke.
I meant to say to have a South America passport, as well; especially if you’re young.
Hope that clarifies….. you know…… if you are really wealthy.
By the way, if not South America, consider Iceland or Australia.
But, my favorite for when TSHTF, Paraguay…. Even that I love the ocean.
Fair enough my friend. I just see that if and when TPTB want your anything it will be taken by force and bloodshed no matter the place of residence. I am frustrated with all of us and our system and just wish more focus on working together was the main initiative.
People who recommend Australia have done little research. In trying to leave I have discovered so many loop holes and regulatory traps that could affect/follow me and mine forever. My money is not mine, the Aust economy is a house of cards like anyother developed nation.
High real estate costs and economy heavily dependent on China.
and those are the 'good' aspects, little is honestly covered about Australia.
Literally Sky-high in the popular Metroplitan centres (Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne, Perth, Canberra) where you'd be lucky to "afford" a concrete box-in-the-sky for $ AU 800k. Prices do decline a little as you move to the more regional centres, but even in minor cities, the cost of accommodation is very, very high, for often decidedly second-rate (old, run-down) properties.
You really DO have to move into very rural communities to see "real" value for money (in terms of acreage and decent / useful property), however the rural folks are usually far more friendly, and have far more useful skills than their citified compatriots (being able to continuously update your Facebook status whilst driving at 100km/hr is not necessarily a "useful" skill).
Of course, for those who want (need??) to really "get away from it all" Central Australia is where you will be looking. Population densities marginally greater than Antarctica, BUT you will be responsible for all your power / water / waste water. Often no telephone, but you will have satellite TV, and if you're within reach of a rural repeater, you might have telephone AND Mobile (3G) Internet - for a price . . . .
Probably one of the better "hideouts" from any unwanted visitors, civilian or official . . . . .
A passport that can be revoked at any time (Snowden). Also they probably won't let you know in advance that their coming for you.
Actually Australia is owned by the Crown - yep - God Save The Queen, The 'Other' Fascist Regime.
All your land is not really yours in good old Australia - even Kidman Holdings - a property larger than Hungary - just has a mixture of Crown leases and free hold leases backed by the Authority of the Australian High Court.
But all Australians are just a bunch of bitches, subjects of the Crown
I have stored some out of country because they seize gold without due process in 1933. However, I think they will just tax the sale of gold and silver this time, say at 60%. That will have the same effect as seizure and it will be much easier.
2 points i would like to make.
first off, they didn't seize any gold in 1933, FDR declared private ownership of gold illegal and required private citizens to turn in their gold. only 1 person in all of the usa was prosecuted for private gold ownership when it was made illegal to own it.
second, they needed gold at the time to increase the money supply; in 1933 the dollar was backed by gold, so they needed more gold to print more dollars. today, they don't need gold for that as usa's notes are backed by nothing but empty promises and can be produced without limit. there's no reason today for such a law today.
Split hairs often?
yes, i do.
but, in this case it's useful to understand the details and risks of what you're talking about if you're going to be referencing executive order 6102.
why get defensive about it? i wasn't being critical of you.
...
There are a lot less on ZH and a like collecting, cough, stacking as so many like to point out about this fact to attract new blood; MSM ignorance of barbarous relics etc. On the other side there are a lot more of them collecting when they come to collect what you feel is yours now.
Take any street, pick 1 house and call him a stacker, have the men in blue cover the place like they do for drug pushing offenses or gun crime. Do you really think all the rest on the same street are going to stand in the way? They don't now and won't when they come knocking on your door.
Unfortunately the protocol of zion will be implemented with or without you and that inlcudes the theft of your barbarous relic metal.
"They killed the giggler...!!!"
The first step is to start calling things by their true name. THEFT.
"Only the Rich Can Afford to Keep Their Homes"
Agreed. One of the many problems of property taxes - the government gets paid ann\ually by you or the take your property and sell it. In N.J., one of the highest property tax states, people are paying over $10,000/year for the "privledge" of having the N.J. government run their lives (harass them). Stop paying your $900/month rent (property taxes) an the government throws you out on the street.
I rent an apartment above a house in suburban Chicago, the landlords 12000 a year in property taxes for the main home.
From what I hear from co-workers, property taxes run 12-18K a year in the area for a 300-400K home. Fucking unbelieveable.
This is something I do not understand about the US. Here in Belgium I pay about 1.200 euro property tax a year for our house (nothing fancy, but a family house for five all the same, with all the standard conveniences, semi-detached, at about 20 km from Brussels, with 3,5 bedrooms - the fourth bedroom being really tiny). And this is the rate for a country in "socialist" Europe.
Those property taxes you guys are mentioning would cause riots in our streets, I can tell you that.
What percent of your income do you see after all taxes and health insurance costs are factored in?
What about sales taxes for consumables and other goods?
I pay about 33 % taxes on my gross monthly income, in other words, I retain about two thirds of my gross salary each month. Health costs are minimal in Belgium, you only pay a small percentage of the actual costs yourself, most of it is covered by the state (it is an expensive system, mind you), unless you choose a qualified and reputable surgeon yourself, but the quality of health care here in Belgium is generally outstanding. Translation: you don't need to die over here just because you're poor.
Sales taxes: 21 % for consumables.
Posted with no comment...
,, unless you choose a qualified and reputable surgeon yourself,,,
Double post deleted
Sounds like a good deal overall. The sales tax is at least 3 times higher than we have in the states, so that is regressive. I am in a prettymarginal high tax bracket, but will pay about 30% overall for income taxes at all levels and social security. You probably have a higher percentage of people pulling the wagon than we do here.
Property taxes in the US vary greatly by state and county. A township in New Jersey charged a friend of mine $17k/year on a 2400 sq ft house that was about 30 min by train from Manhattan. I paid 9.2k on a 1500 sq ft house that was 40 min by train to Manhattan. Another friend paid 15k/year in New York--he was 1.25 hours north of NYC. These are pretty average sized homes for US suburbs, but in the NY metro area they are likely older or on smaller lots than smaller US cities.
An equivalent house in the suburbs of a southern city like Charlotte, Richmond, or Atlanta--within 30 min of the city center--would probably average 2k/year. It would likely be on a larger lot and be have more conveniences.
I believe a couple states have zero property taxes.
You ask a good question debtful. I have a brother in Switzerland and we compare notes from time to time. I should also tell you that I am libertarian.
Europe makes no bones about being socialist...generally democratic socialist. I think Europeans run relatively practical and reasoned socialist programs that have some sanity in them...given you are socialist. My brother talks about the two part Social Security system in Switzerland which makes great sense. The largest part is essentially a national 401k and you have property rights and get back proportionally to what you put in. The other part is like the USA's which is essentially old age welfare with no property rights, guarantees or even fiduciary mandates.
Europe has generally rational single payer systems because they collectively decided what to do and they all work reasonably well and have protections in them. We do Obamacare and try to pretend it is not the precursor to single payor or a government takeover. So, we get these tortured, expensive, dyfunctional, complex system because we (Dems) have to fake what they are trying to do.
I could go on with other comparisons like labor laws, but you get the point.
The next big factor, particularly in NJ, Chicago and liberal bastions like those is that the "skim" and state corruption is so huge that it drives the property and all other taxes through the roof. I lived in NJ coming from the South and could not believe what people put up with. It was also the first place I ever saw bright shiney freshly waxed chrome plated garbage trucks, too. Every little township had it's own full compliment of government, fire, police, garbage, K-12, etc. so, towns that were a mile across never worked with the town next to them for efficiency. I do not know the pay and retirement benefits but I am sure they were healthy no matter how incompetent the civil servant.
I also have distant relatives retiring from the Fed. They will retire on full or near full pay and make more than family practice doctors for a life of admin. As the public sector employment grows in order to control the private this will only get worse.
So, debtful, that is my take. I am thoroughly anti-socialist but I do actually appreciate efforts to do it sensibly, efficiently and cost effectively if you are going to do it.
Damn It (must) Feel Good To Be A Gangsta...
http://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/all/
Excellent post. It is worse than I thought.
However, we know statistically that the government sector makes double the private sector in pay and benefits. That should raise eyebrows by itself.
Well Highly Debtful, You're Right! It's just that the difference in Europe and The US is, In Europe Governments are afraid of The People, In The US The People are afraid of The Government. That's why The US Governments on All Levels (Federal, State, County and City and Home Owners Associations) can get away with Bottom Raping The People constantly. MartyFlesh
Which is why I will never buy anything other than a cash flow positive asset in the disguise of a property ... I have been through this wringer and I will not do it a second time.
This tax donkey has developed a tax yoke allergy ... gets me all riled up ... much happier without the grief.
Regards,
Cooter
I'm confused here-just exactly why does anybody have to "fork over huge sums" to force a judiciary to open up their pocket Constitution, read it, and act on it accordingly?
the judiciary may have a pocket constitution, but they are themselves in the pocket of entrenched corporo-facist interests.
it doesn't matter what the constitution says, it matters who gets to interpret what it says.
Since the police are already in the pay of the drug cartels, the police know who has drugs in their possession. All those SWAT raids on homes get paid for with asset forfeiture if the SWAT team finds drugs. If the cops find cash, they sometimes keep their share on the side if their is plenty.
my neighbor's step-mother makes $68 hourly on the laptop . She has been out of work for 10 months but last month her pay check was $15196 just working on the laptop for a few hours. try here... www.works3.com
Didn't we just see a large group of people siding by the confiscators recently?
Civil war being fought between smart people and stupid ones.
Soul Glow
You have a point there.
Anyway, here is the hidden truth from the America public:
Private-money (Bank-Money, example, dollar) and usury (interest) on the power of PRIVATE SECTOR.
This will then be turned into debt (serfdom), inflation, hyperinflation, deflation, and depression throughout society.
Here is the solution that you are NOT supposed to talk about:
Sovereign Money: http://sovereignmoney.eu/
Escrava Isaura, first of all I apologize for calling you a troll when you arived at the hedge. Good job hanging in there.
Sovereign money is needed for sure, and at zero interest, we are facing years of deflation and over capacity. We need to get into a steady state mode and mcgiver innovation in a much less destructive manner environmentally. Trends like this are already happening, let's encourage it. http://www.offgridworld.com/
The other part is the system itself, folks on the right want to go back to the good old days, but that really means a 70-30 or 60-40 society.
Why not try something "new" for the 21st century? http://schalkenbach.org/on-line-library/works-by-robert-v-andelson/henry...
The way I see it we are socially divided, and will have a bootstrap shoestring environment in the near future. This system runs itself because we would voluntarily do the right things. We will have little "money" to regulate anything.
This model could help us avoid a civil war.
Beyond Left and Right. http://www.henrygeorge.org/isms.htm
http://www.wealthandwant.com/index.htm
What we should regulate is pretty obvious, like naked shorts on commodities, reinstate Glass Steagle, simplify and eliminate red tape, uphold the rule of law, etc.
Anyway, hopefully we consider it, as it has never been tried before on a country basis. These principle can guide us. http://theeconomicrealms.blogspot.fr/2013/01/the-27-principles-reference...
Be well.
We're all trolls now.
Soul Glow
Oops! I thought troll was exclusively for me.
How can I get that exclusivity back?
The real solution is that your solution should only apply to those want your solution.
If you can accept that then you are human and civilized.
scrappy
Apology accepted…. Not that you needed too.
Thanks.
What you say is true... problem is both sides of an issue need to be interested in solving the problem. The status quo in no way will give one inch voluntarily. This is why they are arming up and militarizing what used to be Peace Officers, now Law Enforcement, soon to be (if not already) Gestapo. Fascism is the name and we are their game.
Maybe someone can help here, but I cannot think of one peacful revolution by the People over a tyrannical government. Even then, like the U.S, what emerges next could be as bad or worse than what they had.
rejected
Below is a post that I left at Gail's that addresses your question.
There are mainly three events:
1) Collapse of the US Empire
2) Relentless decline of energy that will lead to shortages of everyday needs and food
3) And the worse of all: Decline that will lead to the extinction of the most dangerous animal ever to walk the earth: Homo sapiens.
How the collapse of the US Empire unfolds (unknown even for the players and diplomats involved, because the conducting negotiations and nations expectations are all moving targets) could exacerbate the other two.
Keep in mind that 2 and 3 will happen. How US goes down is the key in how fast 2 and 3 unfolds.
Oversimplified… But you will get the picture
So, as US goes down, we are left ‘Mainly’ with three scenarios:
a) BRIC’s (mainly Russia and China) let US being in charge. Quick Example: US builds and owns the pipelines. Russia supplies the oil/natural-gas, and China owns the manufacturing.
Under this scenario US can collect rent and is able to buy time. Petrodollars saved.
b) IMF (SDR’s) gets involved and gets to collect these rents. Good for some US financials but US dollar and US middleclass collapses. US oil consumption would have to go down by more than half. So, this scenario, for me, is a NO NO because US politicians and their families wouldn’t survive for five hours. Martial law would have to be used to enforce government authority. But, for how long? Once the government can’t pay the military.
NOTE: Accordingly to James Rickards (“IMF is the ultimate backup when central banks fail.”), SDR will become the next reserve currency and US will debase the dollar against gold and tax gold profit very high. And the US will blame the SDR (IMF) for the dollar collapse.
The Death of Money: The Coming Collapse of the International Monetary System
c) US go on the attack. This is what I believe will happen
US starts Proxy-wars on the boarders of Russia
US crash the prices of all commodities thus bankrupting the world
US floods the Middle East with guns and ammunitions
Military Coup D’état in South America thus overthrowing elected governments and crashing unions (wages)
If these don’t work, I can see the US dropping a couple nuclear bombs, say in Iran and Syria, as warning for the Russians and Chinese.
Creedon,
Russia and China will never attack the US. Then, the question to ask is: If Russia and China don’t give in to US demands, how long will Russia and China go without retaliating.”
Here is your WW-3. And, if it goes nuke, say that you survive, how long you give to the nuclear radiation to kill everything, and everybody else.”
Answer: Less than 10 years
There’s your answer!
“I don’t know (how WW-3 will be fought). But I can tell you what they’ll use in the fourth. They’ll use rocks!” – Albert Einstein
http://ourfiniteworld.com/2014/12/07/ten-reasons-why-a-severe-drop-in-oi...
Nothing wrong with private money. Private money means choice. Choice results in a better product at a better price. The problem arises when private money is granted a monopoly priviledge over currency issuance, by the guns of government. Your link didn't work for me, so my comment that follows is based on having read other schemes about zero-debt, government issued currencies...
The sovereign money thing has been tried, and has failed many times before. The common thread was that they were all backed by the guns of government.
The solution is to remove the guns, and let people choose their own money. PERI-FUCKING-OD
Hate to say it, but from my experience... Stupid usually wins
Does a hot cop chick get first shot at the husband?
i would think she would get first shot at the wife....
Worse, cop dude gets first shot at husband.