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"Non-Political" Draghi Demands Full Federalization Of Europe, Centralized Stock Market
With GREXIT once again knocking on the Euro's door, Mario Draghi has come out swinging (or jawboning). As Reuters reports, the non-political, non-meddling, completely independent central bank chief explains, structural reforms were needed to "ensure that each country is better off permanently belonging to the euro area," adding that Euro zone countries must "complete" their monetary union by integrating economic policies further and working towards a capital markets union. Brussels Uber Alles... (or else "the threat of an exit (from the euro) whose consequences would ultimately hit all members").
Euro zone countries must "complete" their monetary union by integrating economic policies further and working towards a capital markets union, European Central Bank President Mario Draghi said.
In an article for Italian daily Il Sole 24 Ore on Wednesday, Draghi said structural reforms were needed to "ensure that each country is better off permanently belonging to the euro area".
He said the lack of reforms "raises the threat of an exit (from the euro) whose consequences would ultimately hit all members", adding the ECB's monetary policy, whose goal is price stability, could not react to shocks in individual countries.
He said an economic union would make markets more confident about future growth prospects -- essential for reducing high debt levels -- and so less likely to react negatively to setbacks such as a temporary increase in budget deficits.
"This means governing together, going from co-ordination to a common decisional process, from rules to institutions."
Unifying capital markets to follow this year's banking union would also make the bloc more resilient.
"How risks are shared is connected to the depth of capital markets, in particular stock markets. As a consequence, we must proceed swiftly towards a capital markets union," Draghi wrote.
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All your sovereignty are belong to us.
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We suspect Nigel Farage is throwing things by now...
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Better hurry up with that plan. The desperation's getting a little thick in here.
And, uh, while you're at it, could you walk me through the whole "consequences" part of this again?
Brace yourself Germany. You are about to be Greeked.
You all do realize that we're talking about fucking EUROPE don't you!?
They've been killing each other for centuries to avoid shit like this..
Duh.
Just get your orders into Beretta, H&K, Walther, CZ, Zastava, FNH, Tanfoglio, Browning, Seller & Bellot, Chiappa ASAP!
we are still killing each other. 3'000 dead from that little conflict between Ukraine and Russia. who am I supposed to say thank you, Victoria Nuland, Hunter Biden or Vladimir Putin?
perhaps I misunderstand your comment, but I find this continuos "Europe is the usual battleground" reference a bit... tiring. I'd would have preferred to have those 3'000 alive
3k dead is NOTHING compared with what gonna happen if they fail to keep fiats a value worthy enough to buy food, i tell you so.
Anybody seen Mussolini around lately?
"Benito!...BenEETooo...Heeeree Benny..."
Last I saw, he was hanging out down at the gas station. You might try there.
"We promise you stability and security, for the low low price of all your rights and freedoms."
Are you suggesting that all those paper claims on real goods and services might actually start seeking them out?
I am shocked, just shocked I tell you.
Explain to me how this is a "confederation"
Or are you about to switch sides, and start demanding Brussels/Frankfurt NOT have these kinds of powers.
Confédération : fédération des cons ( French )
explain to me what is "this". the article is nonsensical.
(minor quibble: where is that thing about a "centralized stock market" coming from, for example? still not found it. but I've given up on ZH article titles. what is really being discussed is common regulation of equity markets, which isn't the same thing at all, and isn't a given it ever leaves the discussion stage)
as I was trying to explain, some of the real things going on - which have nothing to do with what Draghi is talking or allegedly talking about - is around the powers of the National Central Banks (NCB) of the EuroSystem, i.e. the members of the ECB
the way I read it, we might see in 2015 more articles on what the national banks of France or Italy or Lithuania (new member of the year, welcome, Lithuania) are doing... with ECB support and direct intra-NCB support
interventionist, price pacifying actions which will create lots and lots of invectives from NY and London, which prefer to shake the markets to see who or what falls off or needs volatility insurance
------
picture a battleship switching on and powering the secundary armament turrets and point defense systems, and so saving on ammo for the primary QE big guns
only it was never one battleship. it was always a fleet. which has a commando ship in Frankfurt that agreed with the captains they might "engage at will" with coordinated support of the fleet
ship = federation. fleet = confederation. is that graphic enough?
Sorry but, all delusions of grandeur aside, neither Ukraine nor Russia are part of Europe ! Europeans got their asses kicked EVERY time they tried to extend their reach into the steppes beyond East Prussia & Dnieper River...
Mario Draghi is a dead man walking. Everyone will know that when Draghi accepts an appointment to be a professor at NYU in two or so years, where he will be shielded from pesky EU imternational arrest warrants by the US oligarchs who run the Department of Justice as their fiefdom.
It is just like Socialists to pursue more and more centralization when that was the cause of the problems in the first place. More of same until busted.
Any -ism (be it socialism,marxism, capitalism or whatever) is/was/will only ever be a front, a screen and a tool for these people to steal power. They just see themselves akin to mediaeval barons, but without (they think) the risk to life or limb. Wouldn't be averse to proving them wrong
This should get interesting.
I fail to see where this implies "federalization", or even worse, "full federalization"
What word would you use instead?
what do you mean? seriously, I'm at loss. I read the Reuters article, and then the article that Draghi wrote himself of the "Sole 24 Ore", right next to one from Christine Lagarde
and then I went again through what the real proposals are. and I'm still at loss at what this "federalization" talk is supposed to mean, except for plenty of projection and hopes by people who just want the damn stock markets to go up and the EURUSD to go down
let's break it down to manageable pieces, ok? take the banking union. the sovereigns are still responsible for their own national banking systems, but they follow common, agreed procedures in that. it's a standardization, and I utterly fail to see any loss of sovereignty in a standardization of procedures (if it was so, the standardization of ammunition among NATO members would be a greater loss of sovereignty)
You know, Federalize- bringing separate states together under a centralized government. I don't know what word you would want them to use. Probably you should just support Draghi and do what he says. You can find out what's in it after he does it.
Like most educated europeans Ghord has some useful insight from time to time, but he also suffers from some pretty serious cognitive dissonance. A duck is a duck, unless you are "educated" then is can be an "aquatic bird" or "Anas platyrhynchos".
Calling a spade a spade, is politically incorrect, europeans "would never be politically incorrect"... Devolution at the highest levels.
he is a lion when it comes to discussing greece but somewhat plays the foul when the push comes to shelve in his own court ... yeah, i dont understand what Draghi means ... just get in line with the others and take it like the rest of them ... no soup for you
please point to where I've ever been "political correct". sometimes it's tiring to be compared with the American PC crowd, which shares with me as much or little as most US subcultures
if I'm correct, we might see in 2015, if needed, more eurozone NCB action, with the ECB providing support and coordination only. that's what I read in the "banking union" deals
thats wiseman advise ... experience proves to be better for your health
"I'm still at loss at what this "federalization" talk is supposed to mean, except for plenty of projection and hopes by people who just want the damn stock markets to go up and the EURUSD to go down"
I thought you said you didn't understand...........
Your point is valid insofar as it goes. But I think the Euroskeptics would argue that standardization of bank examination is a far cry from standardization of labor market regulations and fiscal policy. The former doesn't really infringe upon what skeptics would call sovereignty. The latter two are likely within the skeptics' definition of "sovereignty".
Draghi builds his argument around the premise that the pre-existence and indeed, the continued existence, of the Euro and the Eurozone require your idea of standards and standards which fall under the rubric of "sovereign policies".
Skeptics argue this is the proverbial slippery slope to Federalism. I'm inclined to agree. But I also recognize that there are plenty of reasonable steps short of this, if indeed this was your point.
Yes, this applies to all "modern societies". More to the point, show me the underlying collateral motherfucker.
Exactly. At bottom, some collateral (resources, taxing power etc.) has to backstop all the happy talk and "standards" etc.
What is this collateral?
I'm sympathetic to Ghordius' point of view, because he presumably wants all the benefits of the Eurozone. Of course, the costs are harder to fathom and collateral is hard to bring forth.
Let's make it short and easy, for you. EU is WAY too broke for any more "federalization". Right now, EU is at the "everybody for himself" point, whether TPTB care to accept it or not. They are fighting gravity... and losing !
All your sovereignty are belong to us.
I still giggle at that type of comment.
2014 popular comment to make on ZH - " We _______ some folks."
2013 popular comment to make on ZH - " All your children are belong to us."
Did you just snarky comment some folks?
I did. That comment just puts a smile on my face.
NoDebt - Had to log in to upvote
What? I could have sworn the most popuplar comment since 2009 would have been - roll the motherfucking guillotines.
How disappointing...
Thats all the years combined popular comment. You got to look at this on a macro level or whatever fuckery word economists would use.
...or BTFATH!
Instead it's roll the debt.
Gold, bitchez
was also quite successful
Bitchez (with "Z") also in the top 10.
>>> Grexit
>>> Brexit
As always, the important thing is the stock "market".
&*!% the people
No, no, you don't understand. In this new fascist klepto corporatist crony state, the people are the assets/collateral.
Slavery is alive and well my friend.
http://www.cradleylinks.co.uk/images/1911chainmaking1.jpg
May as well, that's the way it will end up before... it blows up!
The herd will go along with that. As long as nanny gubmint promises to take care of them.
Same thing happening here in the good 'ol, USSA!
Never let a Crisis go to Waste ... all planned over decade ago.
ECB then controls 10,000+ tons of Gold .... and Trillions of EU Debt.
Any guesses who the Creditors might be ?
Maybe that's why Gold Price is held down ... to increase the tonnage they owe .
Way before that Sir
1945 British National Archives Document Calls For New World Order Now
Everyone wants Communism
Germany’s Wolfgang Schäuble Promotes Globalist Tax Collection
Russia’s Globalist Connections
E.U. Court Rules Obese People Can Be Considered Disabled
E.U. Fund Helps Poland Build ‘Ghost’ Airports…….Like China
Communist E.U. Leaves Opening In Law For New GMO Crops
Russia Helps Belarus Into WTO Through U.N. Fund
Communist WTO Blocks Consumers From Knowing Where Thier Meat Comes From
Russia’s KAMAZ To Become ‘New Face’ Of U.N. Food Program
One ring to bind them.
Dont' forget the important part of that quote -- "and in the DARKNESS bind them" -- as keeping the sheeple in the Dark is the key to controlling them and putting in place a system that cannot be overturned.
NWO BITCHEZ
OWO bitchez.Nothing like a little facelift,ask John Kerry.
Fascism at its Finest.
what's new about feudalism?
'Blockchain' technology is the underlying decentralised public ledger for Bitcoin and its already being used to create a decentralised stock market at this very moment.
The improtance of this is huge it will completely decentralise the Stock markets at the soverign level and will make them compeltely open world wide.
This is the complete opposite direction to the increasing centralisation that Draghi is proposing.
In a few years time we may be all looking back and thanking this technology for saving us from outright centralised global dictatorship.
Please, "blockchain technology" can be dominated just as easily as anything else that exists "in silico".
This is not something new either, it's been around for 20+ years. Moreover, if I have access to a printer or trillions of fiat at 0.01% interest, I can buy far more "bits/blocks" than you.
Human nature is what it is.
Ho hum another day on bizzaro planet.
The only way the euro would work is with EU nations completely surrendering sovereignty. I just don't see countries like France ever doing that.
I can't see France ever surrendering anything either. Oh wait...
Ah, the 'ol French surrender jokes !
This kind of ugly disdain and nasty jokes come from the firm refusal of the French to join America in Irak, in 2003.
Since France refused to go to Iraq, American warmongers and neo-cons made French army look like cowards – as a punishment.
But History has proved the French were right, and that the WMD were only a dirty trick to serve as a pretext.
Nevertheless, the hate of American warmongers against France remains still there, well alive, even in ZH.
This stale hate still shows through "innocent good jokes" about the “surrender monkeys” and their white flag … As for the rest, the French can be proud of their Military History which remains despite these stupid jokes the best military record in Europe.
In fact the French - surrounded by the Germans, English, Dutch, Italians and Spaniards (among others) - succeeded to win and guard the largest country in the very heart of Europe.
According to the British historian Niall Ferguson they did it by fighting 168 major wars even against such badasses as the Roman Empire, the British Army and the Turkish forces. They've won 109, lost 49 and drawn 10 times.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Armed_Forces
Fuck the yankees!
They know shit about stereotypes and prejudice in Europe.
Here's one about the leanest books ever written:
- Fine english cuisine and
- Italian hero stories
There's a third one, but I don't remember anymore.
Ever hear of WWII?
@moonman "Ever hear of WWII?"
Prejudices
In 1939 and 1940 France was let alone (apart from only 8 British divisions, which succeeded to quickly re-embark at Dunkirk thanks to the sacrifice of the soldiers of the 1st French Army of the North).
France was let alone facing a nazi-fanaticized country with a population of 80 million (vs. 40 million in France), a particularly well prepared war-industry, and an air superiority of 5 vs. 1.
At the same time the “US ally” refused to sell planes on credit to France!
Contrary to what has often been said, and is a result of the Nazi propaganda of that time, and the neo-cons hatred in 2003, the German advance (Blitzkrieg) encountered serious resistance from the French troops. In the six week Battle of France, from May 10 to June 22, 1940, the French lost, in military personnel alone, 260,000 wounded and 108,000 killed. A total of 368,000 casualties in six weeks is not something to pass off lightly.
This is 5 times more than the losses of the American army in three months of battles in Normandy in 1944 (21000), and nearly the same amount than the US deaths in 7 months of WW1 (116700)!
It is the air superiority (over 1,000 Stuka bombers knocked out the troops defending Sedan) and the intelligent use of the German panzers that broke the defences and made ineluctable the defeat.
Since WW2, air superiority is generally the winning key of all battles …
The 1940 campaign was the most intense of all the battles that will take place later on the Western Front:
the Germans suffered heavy losses in just 6 weeks - approximately 60,000 killed 111 000 injured and above 1250 planes were destroyed which will be greatly missed by the Luftwaffe during the battle of Britain. Struggling one against five, the French fighter planes weakened the Luftvaffe (defeating two German planes for one loss).
Yes, the Germans gave the French a terrible beating. But it took the combined strength of the United States, Great Britain, Soviet Russia, Canada, etc., to beat the Germans.
It’s asking rather a great deal of France to match such strength against hers – with an air inferiority of 1 vs. 5. The US never faced more than 15% of the Wehrmacht – 80% were in the East - when France had to face alone 100% of Hitler's war machine in 1940 – plus 22 Italian divisions in the south.
In fact, the Germans would have walked straight over the British or American armies if any of these places would have been directly adjacent to France. Remember that in 1944, at the battle of the Bulge (Ardennes) the Americans were only saved by their planes. Strangely, it is at the very same place that the Germans initially broke the French line.
BTW "Ever hear of WWI?"
World War I cost France 1,697,800 dead and 4,266,000 wounded (of whom 1.5 million were permanently maimed) and 537,000 made prisoner or missing - exactly 73% of the 8,410,000 men mobilized (for a total population of 40 million).
This means that 60% of men between the ages of 18 and 28 died or were permanently maimed.
You can have an idea of what these figures woud represent for the present population of the US:
13,412,000 dead and 33,701,400 wounded (of whom 11,850,000 permanently maimed) and 4,242,000 made prisoner or missing. Can you imagine US reaction to casualties on that scale?
And the French DID NOT SURRENDER (The stupid Jay Leno's style jokes are really not funny) …
To conclude: All these old English racist jokes have been revivified since 2003 by the hate of american warmongers against France, and are still remaining even in ZH.
The Frogs were right about the USA's Iraq comedy of errors and at least had the stones to say "Fuck the USA", unlike a lot of other so-called sovereign nations.
The main error was appeasing domestic nut jobs of the left as to the conduct of the occupation phase in both "Iraq" and Afghanistan. Both wars were short and decisive.
You mean decisive in the sense that the USA's "mighty" LGBT-infested military got its azzz kicked in front of the world by a bunch of untrained Muzzie crazies using 30 year-old rebuilt AK47's and IED's made out of used cell phone parts.
Some would fight...but France?
Particularly if it was otherwise bust (and France is heading that way)?
Watson
Germans dont seem worried?
The euro zone no longer has to rescue Greece, since the country isn't systemically important to the bloc anymore, Michael Fuchs, a senior member of German Chancellor Angela Merkel's party was quoted as saying by the Rheinische Post newspaper
Interesting. I hope the Greeks increase the costs at those luxury resorts by 10,000x.
Get long security companies in Greece.
>>>
...Greece, since the country isn't systemically important to the bloc...
<<<
_systemically important_
It never was. The numbers are too small (AKA within power of German taxpayer to bail out).
The importance is the _principle_ that no EUR-state defaults on it's debt, the _principle_ being important
to Merkel, who really believes in the EUR-state nonsense, and also is the paymaster.
And who has also recently won her re-election.
So if the Greek state itself doesn't pay coupons and redemptions when due, German taxpayers (by some more or less
complicated route) will step up to the plate.
Watson
its systemically important to the idea of the eurozone working (that fictitious...thing...)
You nailed it; the Greek economy is statistically insignificant. If the Greeks manage to successfully escape from the Frau's Fourth Reich EU debt prison, it is dangerousely symbolic and it might inspire others to do the same, and the whole EU house of cards may collapse with the Krauts holding the bag.
Germans are more worried about Draghi than Greece!
does that mean the greeks are free to leave the EU with mutti merkel's approval?
Yearly closings and predictions: http://investfts.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/year-end-closings.html
It's amazing that these countries, which fought for a 1000 years for their sovereignty, are now willing to just give it all up to a bunch of bankers without a shot fired.
+ 1 Which is precisely, why I beleive, it will never happen.
The elites of each nation have put in place mechanisms to ensure things work in their favour within nations.
This will always be the real show stopper, for all steps towards globalsistion within and outside of the EU.
e.g. In the US, the elites have worked out how to control the democrtic process with campaign contributions to Republicans and Democrats, this stops working at a global level.
In the UK we have a privately educated elite that take all important positions, this stops working at a global level.
I have no proof but believe it goes a lot further than financial support. Control of the media is also vital, not just for the more obvious types of support but also for the capacity to keep scandals under wraps. John McStain being a prime example. I'd also say that Frau Merkel's time in the old GDR left a lot of hostages to fortune which ensure she toes the line.
Draghi, close your eyes and tap your heels together three times. And think to yourself, 'There's no place like home'.
Federalization ? We have traitors in command of the EU and they want more power ? Are you dreaming ? It is clear that the EU is run by traitors . Even every country member of that criminal organization has traitors in control . I will explain . From the moment that Russia had difficulty in delivering gas to Europe , because of Ukrainan thievery, Putin tried to solve the problem peacefully without success . Then he came up with the South Stream project that was sabotaged by the criminals traitors in the EU . The South Stream would have avoided passing through the Ukraine to reach Bulgaria , Greece , Serbia, Hungary and Austria . This project would have been in the interest of Southern Europe . But the traitors in teh EU following orders from Washington said no . So now the project has been abandoned . Then there is the Coup d'etat in Ukraine .I disagree as a voter . Nobody gave the mandate to the traitors of the EU to organize coup d'etat in another European country , if they did not organize it they certainly knew and participated to it . So i am opposed to give more powers to those incompetent traitors that obviously get sacks of money for doing the interests of foreign powers and not the European electors . I hope the EU fake dream fails soon .
You are almost incoherant, but spot on nonetheless.
Capture the bankers. Throw them into prisons and re-distribute their stolen wealth. Long live the revolution.
Draghi now showing he intends to leave the ECB soon; apparently angling to become president of Italy (honorary position) like Queen of England.
His remarks are more "wishful thinking" than concrete plans to achieve a goal, as the sovereigns are very much in control.
And nobody is ready to address this Loch Ness dodo that we keep talking about but for which --Since the Giscard Constitution of 2004 (which got shot down in 2005 referendum)-- nobody can define the contours of its framework.
We badly need a Sherlock Holmes in that EU team. Not a bunch of Moriarty types.
These tipping changes are in the words of Heraclitus, his " fruit of long maturation" and deemed inevitable for each epoch :
The best people renounce all for one goal, the eternal fame of mortals; but most people stuff themselves like cattle. (something for Mutti to meditate)
Deliberate violence is more to be quenched than a fire. (something the neo-cons never learned)
A man's character is his fate. (something the bankstas show us everyday)
There is nothing permanent except change. (something every generation has to learn the hard way)
"as the sovereigns are very much in control."
Yes, they are. But I believe the battle between the European level and the national level will pick up again in a few ( ? ) years. And the most interesting scene to watch : France, where the national elites of the politically strongest eurozone country stand to lose most power ( or not ).
Today the whole iof western civilization is caught in the web of Pax Americana which runs the show since 1945.
Given its current trajectory, its decline will determine how the surrogate constructs evolve.
Its always been that way : Spain 1525-1648, France 1648 to 1713, France/Britain 1713-1815, Britain 1815 to 1914, Britain/France/USA 1914-1945, USA ....?
Its not clear if the political mandate of EU will evolve to more federation in the coming years. The past is very nationalistic but the future will be more nation states the size of continents : USA/China/Brasil/India/Russia.
If Europe does not want to end up like the city states of Italy during the Middle Ages and Renaissance period, where they kept getting attacked by Empires, it better learn to unite.
That's what History seems to point to. But who knows! Not easy between France, Germany and UK, as the time line shows us !
Mario Draghi: "Is this gonna hurt?"
The Hangman: "No one's complained yet!"
"He said an economic union would make markets more confident about future growth prospects -- essential for reducing high debt levels -- and so less likely to react negatively to setbacks such as a temporary increase in budget deficits."
I have never seen confidence in future growth prospects result in reducing debt levels. That's just stupid - when people are confident they will prosper in the future, they borrow more money either to enjoy their future prosperity now (buy consumer goods on credit), or to invest and prepare for the future good times (CAPEX spending, student loans). No one ever cuts borrowing because they see good times ahead.
Perhaps he is saying that future growth results in reduced debt levels - "grow our way out of debt". I have never seen this happen either, at least not by governments. When times are good economically they pass all kinds of batshit spending bills. They never apply increased revenues to paying off old debt.
Maybe he means that EU national debts/deficits will shrink as a percentage of national GDP's as economic growth takes hold? Bullshit.
Amen brother (or sister)
Times good? Invest (borrow) more.
Times tough? Invest for the future (borrow) more.
Economic "growth" due to increased gov "investment"? Borrow more.
For those in power there is no downside to increasing debt.
VE (verbal easing) is the new QE, and so far has had the same effects on the markets.
sounds like a verbal panic attack.
bunga bunga drag
I don't see what the big deal is. We have an unelected, private corporation , running "our" government here in the US and its working out just fine.
Europe is dead.
don't cry
Europe may not be dead but it certainly smells really bad.
It is high time for the EU to be fully audited, and a full set of accounts published for all to see.
If this were to happen, the EU would be finished in double quick time. Just like the banks, the EU is toxic, and is responsible for the starvation of thousands of citizens. The scumbags at the top will be brought to account, one way or another.
It is high time for the EU to be fully audited, and a full set of accounts published for all to see.
If this were to happen, the EU would be finished in double quick time. Just like the banks, the EU is toxic, and is responsible for the starvation of thousands of citizens. The scumbags at the top will be brought to account, one way or another.
He should take that kind of comedy on tour. I'm sure he'd sell out psychiatric units all over Europe.
Times up Mario, be a dear and fuck off back to Goldman with the stench of failure all over you.
So if Greece pulls out, does that mean tanks on the Greeks borders from the rest of Europe?
"Nigel Farage - calling Nigel Farage."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ny5Arx2OUpo
Mr. Draghi, would you sign a joint and severability agreement with your family members?
I am SO happy that I am paranoid about regime-growth and regime-collapse, resulting in my selling out of all my EU assets and Euros when the exchange rate was still $1.50USD. New Zealand, with its isolation and stability, is looking better every day as my next retirement destination.