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These 19 States Just Hiked The Minimum Wage: Here Come The "Unintended Consequences"
Starting on January 1, 2015, a one year-delayed component of Obamacare kicks in: according to the health care law, businesses that employ at least 100 full-time workers — or full-time equivalents, including part-time workers — must offer health benefits to at least 70% of those working at least 30 hours a week by Thursday, or pay a penalty. This will expand to by next year, when companies will have to provide insurance to 95% of their workers, and firms with 50 to 99 employees must offer coverage as well. As a result, and as even the USA Today reports, "many businesses in low-wage industries have hired more part-time workers and cut the hours of full-timers recently to soften the impact of new health law requirements that take effect Thursday."
More details:
Businesses in low-wage sectors, such as restaurants, retail and warehousing, are feeling bigger effects because health insurance represents an outsize share of their total employee costs, says Rob Wilson, head of Employco, a human resources outsourcing firm. Many of those with just fewer than 100 staffers have hired more part-timers in recent months, while those with at least 100 are reducing the hours of existing employees, he says.
Michelle Neblett, senior director of labor and workforce policy for the National Restaurant Association, says many restaurants are being more cautious about boosting the workweek of part-timers to 30 hours or more, doling out such increases to reward top performers.
Those strategies have not had a noticeable impact on the labor market. Monthly job growth has averaged 240,000 this year, up from 194,000 in 2013. And full-time employment has increased at about twice the rate of part-time payrolls, Labor Department figures show.
Still, the number of part-time workers who say they'd prefer full-time jobs has remained stubbornly high. That can at least partly be traced to the inclination of the restaurant, retail and hotel industries to hire more part-time workers to sidestep the ACA mandate, Royal Bank of Scotland wrote in a recent report.
Of course, the reason why the BLS has not yet revealed the reality of the shifting US labor force, and why there is virtually no real wage growth across the US since the Lehman bankruptcy, is that the BLS simply backs into statistically goal-seeked results, using seasonal and statistical (birth/death) adjustments to smooth a trendline to beat a monthly bogey used by algos to bid stocks higher. Meanwhile, the reality at the micro level, is that increasingly more Americans are seeing their work status transformed from full-time to part-time status, earning less in the process, having no healthcare and retirement benefits and virtually no job security.
As a result, starting this year, some 19 states just increased their minimum wage threshold, with 3 more states due to follow later in 2015. This takes place at the state level because for numerous reasons, there simply wan't enough of a consensus to pass this at the Federal level. The Daily Signal has the details:
In three states—Arkansas, Nebraska and South Dakota—voters approved ballot measures in November to increase the minimum wage, effective Jan. 1, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.
Alaska voters passed an initiative raising the minimum wage in the state to begin Jan. 1. But the pay increase isn’t effective until 90 days after the election results are certified, Feb. 24.
Meanwhile, legislatures in seven states—Connecticut, Hawaii, Maryland, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Vermont and West Virginia—approved laws boosting the minimum wage. Those laws go into effect today.
Though Delaware and Minnesota’s state lawmakers voted to raise the minimum wage, those increases won’t begin until June and August, respectively. The District of Columbia will see a minimum wage hike beginning July 1. New York raised its minimum wage to $8.75 an hour beginning yesterday and will see another increase to $9 an hour beginning Dec. 31, 2015.
Nine other states will see increases in their minimum wages today as state laws mandate automatic increases to make up for rising prices. Those states are: Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Missouri, Montana, New Jersey, Ohio, Oregon and Washington.
Among states raising the minimum wage, Washington state will boast the highest at $9.47 an hour–but only until July 1, when the District of Columbia will have the highest in the nation at $10.50 an hour.
These are the states in question:
So in the grand scheme of this this should be net neutral: more part-time jobs offset by higher wages, not too bad right? Wrong.
For one thing, For according to a recent UCSD study, for three years, researchers followed low-income workers residing in states that saw wage hikes and those that did not. The study found that minimum wage hikes had negative impacts on employment, income and income growth. In other words, the probability of part-, and full-time workers to get fired rises even more as a result of an artificial push to the wage/labor supply-demand curve.
In fact, while one can applaud the attempt to boost standards of living, one can be certain that the only thing the media will be focusing on in 2015 will be the "unintended consequences" of this action:
“Minimum wage supporters have good intentions, but those good intentions cannot repeal the law of unintended consequences,” James Sherk, an expert in labor economics at The Heritage Foundation, told The Daily Signal. He added: "Minimum-wage increases reduce the total earnings of low-wage workers — the higher pay for some workers gets completely offset by the nonexistent pay of those no longer employed."
In its study, UCSD researchers found that after minimum-wage increases, the national employment-to-population ratio decreased by 0.7 percent points between December 2006 and December 2012.
In addition, the study found that minimum-wage increases hindered low-skilled workers’ ability to rise to lower-middle -lass earnings.
And then there are rising prices. As shown previously, just the adverse impact to the bottom line already led to increases in consumer prices across various restaurants in the US.
That's just the beginning. As small and medium-businesses struggle across America to make ends meet, it is the big businesses that have all the economies of scale and all the leverage. And, as a result, prepare for this:
Which is just the intended result: after all, the one thing missing from the "recovery" is inflation. Well, prepare to welcome unintended consequences number one of central planning. The only problem, declining wages aren't going anywhere. And that's for those who are lucky enough to hold jobs. Also, don't forget that the only shining spot in the US wage field - shale jobs - is finished, and going forward not only will the shale patch not generate rising wages, but will in fact lead to the largest surge in layoffs seen in years.
Which is precisely what propaganda is for. And after all, Americans who can no longer afford to buy, or even rent a home can always live in their car, and now, thanks to plunging gas prices, heat themselves while sleeping in someone's driveway. Because as the media loves reminding us each and every day, sub $2 gas is a "tax cut" for improverished American consumers everywhere.
Now if only those same consumers had full-time jobs and/or anything resembling stable (forget rising) wages, they would even spend more just as Keynesian theory suggests, if only in theory.
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"Why There Shouldn’t Be a Minimum Wage"
Why there should:
"High (minimum/average) wages = higher standard of living, stronger economy, lower unemployment, much less debt. Why? Because as proven by one of the most-basic economic principles (the “marginal propensity to consume”), more-equal economies have much more-robust consumption, and an ideal savings-to-consumption ratio."
Lies, Inflation, and the Minimum WageThe whole point of the article was that economic theories that should work often have very negative unintended consequences. Too bad you didn't read it.
Why read it when you can cut + paste only the sections that agree with your point of view?
True, but sometimes they work as intended, might want to browse that link.
Here is the sharp knife edge to your throat so you get the picture.
I don't want or need government inducing inflation or deflation for my benefit. I can handle myself just fine thanks. Any idiot that thinks he needs government to manipulate inflation/deflation is just that, an idiot. Not just an idiot but one that will vote for people who enrich themselves at his expense.
You are bleeding out and you don't even know it. You just want more.
I don't get the minimum wage hating.
If the minimum wage paid doesn't provide a worker wages above that allowed to receive government benefits then the government (taxpayers) are subsidizing the business that employs said workers.
Wal-mart get a double dose of corporate welfare as we subsidize their low wage employees and also because a large segment of their business now is selling groceries to EBT recipients.
Said it here before, $11+ should be the minimum wage so that someone working the new normal 30 hours doesn't qualify for a full slate of bennies for a single person. Still would not be sufficient for a family, but setting it to be sufficient for a single individual with no dependents seems like a reasonable floor.
Otherwise it is just more privatizing profits while socializing the costs/losses.
You are a central planner's wet dream. How much should I pay for french fries, according to your dictate?
You keep this up and they'll start decreeing the price of french fries. Push it harder and lose your head.
You need to understand that governments can and will do whatever they want. If some of their arbitrary decrees benefit you, embrace them.
That's kind of a defeatist attitude, isn't it? Governments can and will do whatever they want only as long as people let them.
Governments are just a mental abstraction. Governments are just people. People doing things to other people. If you like said actions, why stop them?
I guess that blue pill tasted pretty good, huh?
For you people everything is blue this, red that and fuck you ben!
One minute you claim to be trying to help your fellow man, the next you whine about your precious taxes supporting faggots.
Governments are just a mental abstraction. Governments are just people. People doing things to other people.
Touchdown.
You should pay as much as you are willing to. Also the seller of these french fries should sell them for as much as he can get you to pay.
If the seller can't find customers to buy fries for a price that provides a profit then the seller will change his model or leave the business.
I think corn subsidies are BS too. If those went away you would see a larger overall increase in food prices than from a minimum wage hike since so much of our food is based on cheap corn.
First off certain business are subsidized anyway regardless of minimum wage. That is why they have corporate lobbyist.
Secondly, it raises the cost of goods and services, thus they don't really get a raise. It only hurts the middle class that doesn't get that wage increase.
Finally, the government can redefine poverty at its own will. Thus if the government chooses, someone making 11/hr for 30 hours a week can be redefined as in poverty to qualify for bennies.
Raising minimum wage IS socializing costs.
True that many business profit off of other kinds of subsidies: see corn.
IMO the prices of goods and services can only be raised to the extent that customers are willing to pay the increased price, IOW a market.
So either producers will be able to make a profit selling their products at a price that customers are willing to pay or they will quit their business.
I worked in retail and food industry jobs in my teens and 20s and employee hours were already cut to as little as possible to operate the business. At some point you hit a minimum amount of necessary labor, introduce automation, or otherwise change the business model by raising prices etc.
Consider the old school department store with counters in every department, each count staffed by salespeople waiting to serve you.
Fast forward to the present, giant sized store like Target divided up into 4 or 5 sections, Softlines 1 and 2, Hardlines 1 and 2, and now Grocery. In the '90s there were 8 people covering an entire store, and during lunch breaks less than that. 3 of those people were tied to stations (fitting room, jewelry, electronics). Jewelry no longer seems to be constantly staffed.
IOW you can only cut back so far, and as far as I can tell most operations have already done that.
Don't think that cutting hours to avoid paying insurance is a new thing. Common practice since the '90s to give an employee 40 hours one week and then 20 the next because if you got so many consecutive 40 hour weeks then by law they were supposed to offer you health insurance.
So, where are the extra FRNs needed to pay the employees that extra high minimum wage going to come from? Correlation != causation.
Some government union pay scales, as well as other union pay scales are indexed to the minimum wage. It has nothing to do withfast food workers, it has to do with the index.
bingo +1
Now all the "heros" will get more largesse
Hyperinflation 2015! Prepare for currency collapse and absolute CHAOS BITCHEZ!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQdLxI0Fg4w
Maybe we need to lower the maximum wage.
What? No minimum wage hike in the most liberal states of all, Jew York and California?
Showing their true colors I see, LMFAO!!!
Do your due diligence before you spout off. You'd happen to be wrong. Here you go... both NY and CA. have an increase. http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_minimumwage.htm http://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/state-minimum-wage-cha...
Simple and ignorant minds write things like you write, btw.
:)
"Simple and ignorant minds write things like you write, btw." -- Thanks for the demonstration. So, the cost of living is higher in cali due to innovation finding a home there and better competition as well as better more skiiled labor.
Gee, sounds like free market values.... (so long as no one expects a BAILOUT- like wall street and Jew York keep getting)
Thanks for helping.
But after accusing you of having an ignorant mind, he put a smiley emoticon, so that makes it all better.
Like I said, "simple minds write thing like you write." You didn't dispute what I corrected you on (so the premise of your first post was incorrect, to spell it out for you). The, "better and more skilled labor" you speak of isn't making minimum wage anyhow. That is the point of minimum wage, to avoid a society where you can work 50-60 hours a week and still not be able to afford an apt. This is what happens in your socialized capitalist utopia.
Funny thing is, I think you and I would agree on a lot of things, even who is in control of things to some degree. But when you hurl out stuff like you do, your point is well lost. Look at congress. Are they all Jews? No, but they are all in the pockets of corporations.
So.... for the, "demonstration". Yes, the cost of living is higher in California, and therefor the need for a higher wage. In SF it's $15 / hr. I pay far more than that to my employees here (blue collar, hard working, entry level jobs). They struggle but make it. In what is sure to get a response from you and others, I do my best to try to create community and keep people I like working and being productive, and they reward me with hard work and loyalty.
"I do my best to try to create community and keep people I like working and being productive, and they reward me with hard work and loyalty."
A little sanity in a mad mad world. Good luck to you.
Thank you.
LOP they all forget when they spout off about having better more skilled workers. Now for the other side of the coin.
California has 10% of the USA population and yet 30% of total welfare payments go to CA. So much for thier progressive minimumn wage helping their citizens!
To actually afford a home there you need a medium income of about 100K!
Don't know about spew york but Cali just raised their min wage last July to $9 p/hr. This nightmare of a shithole state will soon be behind me.
It's funny that those that say they are doing great in Cali are people whose jobs are in or business is connected to govt work/contracts.
Fucking stupid teachers unions don't care who pays the bill as long as someone ELSE pays.
Just like retired police and firefighters.
What's the cost of living in Cali now? I'd argue that there is a bit more of an innovative spirt in cali as well (that's a good thing but expensive to maintain).
Innovative spirit yes, but it's in the technology sector and they can afford it. Smaller businesses are getting pushed out thanks to CARB (California air resources board). Not to mention the flood of illegals who work for LESS than the min wage and they will continue to stay there.
What business owner would hire someone for $9/hr when you can hire someone for less who won't be around as long to complain about the cost of living as to increase the min wage?
California is one big plantation state with the mehicans as slaves. They get to come and go as they please without fear of arrest but the trade off is they get to work for less. With all the free Benny's they receive from the state and federal govt they don't need a higher wage.
The real slaves are the citizens who are forced to pay. If you refuse, it's off to jail with you or have your live savings taken away.
Any guess why I'm leaving?
Wow that is THE biggest dipshit statement I've ever heard. I think you're bitter because you were educated in the overfunded California Public Education system. It's kewl, to suffice for your inferiority complex- the CA and it's boomer voting majority didn't just allow you, but sponsored your 'in class' drug habit. Which is why Mexicans are so popular to begin with.
The boomers, not the techies- the boomers ruined the state. They set up so much red tape and the banks are too illiquid to sponsor corporate birth and growth to create jobs, so they rob us when we're in need of shelter.
Whatever problems California has will follow you because you probably caused them.
Did the techies all flip houses they couldn't afford? Oh wait, the techies are the only ones in this state besides rock stars that might be able to afford property in this state based on their SALARIES.
Because you can? If I could afford it? I'm LEAVING THE COUNTRY.
Here's the almighty question. Why hire for someoen for $9/hour when Microsoft Office that can do the job without them -is already paid for? Admin is such easy work, you can get an entire "day's" worth done in a half hour if you can use Excel. Excel isn't rocket science. So basically these people are just too cheap to hire real accountants and business consultants - but would rather pay corporate lawyers $30,000/MONTH for legal protection from their investors whom lost their money with them.
Typical ghetto Boomer racist kleptocracy.
But CA doens't enforce the laws ANYWAYS. Stupid.
No, the dude is correct.
I moved from Cali myself because of what I saw and what is coming. I got priced out due to taxes and other shit. My balls got squeezed, so I bailed.
Liberals, unions, faux liberals like wealthy techies (who espouse liberalism but offshore their own cash) and other wackjobs made it impossible to stay unless you were born there or inherited your money due to prop 13.
The voters there actually vote against themselves, and then bitch about everything.
I remember when Arnold tried to make some modest common sense (and mathematically necessary) changes and he got roundly trounced.
I knew then it was over. And it is.
CALPERS is worse than any mafioso that ever lived, they are professional extortionists.
Have fun living 10 to a house and working in the underground economy. That is very common.
I saw it myself.
Listen here assfuck, god I sound like Bangalore, the problem is the unions who have and unfunded liability of $600+BILLION you idiot. Not to mention every illegal and his auntie, cousins cousins cousins sisters nephew because they're are "DREAMERS".
Go look at the fucking welfare rolls and who the hell do you think tops the need? Illegals mutherfucker!!! The biggest draw of resources on California comes from the illegal population who multiply like rabbits.
If I had posting privileges like HH I'd show you the flood of not only mehicans, but Somali, Kenyan, Cuban, Guatemalan, Hondurans.
The socialist commies in this state are achieving their goal, destroying capital/ free market. Its nothing but fascism here.
People like me are the solution. You are the problem because you have NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT HOU ARE TALKING ABOUT YOU IGNORANT FUCKING FUCK!!!!
Honest question here: If the "native" aryan californians were breeding like rabbits, would you complain about their use of resources?
So what state are you going to live in next?
Picture Mexicans as robots for hire. Just imagine if Mexicans were just robots.
What then? Gonna insult robots? Accuse robots of stealing yobs? Ask for the hated USSA to protect you while you refuse to pay taxes?
Sounds like Colorado.
Saskatchewan Canada was like that for 50 years.. The population under the communist NDP did not budge from 1947 to 2000 remaining at 1 million. Meanwhile Alberta grew from 1 million to 4.4 million. Both provinces had piles of trees, grain and oil.. The vote card is the only solution to a bloat government that will parasitically feed upon the population until it is left starving in the ditch while the government workers scream for more health care to pay for their diabetic and cancer treatments because they overweight and obese to the hilt..
Ah Soshalizm, is there no depth of economic stupidity you won't sink to?
Can't wait for these companies to beg for a new bailout. As more people stop spending money, increased wages will fall to its kness. Simple math.
We minimumed some folks...
"Son of a Baconator"
I gotta try one of those!
Yeah um, We Crushed some Folks Dreams... But that okay. We are going to make the kind of country that understands and supports our peoples needs, their goals, their destinations...
I need a country that doesn't have a government that interferes in my life.
My goal is to live free of said government.
My destination...
Antarctica? Somalia? A remote part of the amazon forest?
I bet you have lots of needs and goals.
True enough. What they are really looking for is the least bad first world location.
In the US, I'd argue NH.
I can't really say outside the US.
A whole open planet and they bicker over the safest spiderhole to crawl into and wait for death. As long as taxes are low!
The price of fast food poison is going up?
People might just prepare their own food or eat less?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
Not a bad unintended, but after a friend witnessed a woman of color singing "hands up, don't shoot" repeadity 3 days ago in a coinvenince store while pointing out how many "crackers" were in the store. She asked this friend what he was doing, he said working. He works for a large beer distro in the area so he stocks the selves. She replied, "Ha Ha Ha, I don't have to work the crackers do my work for me. Ha ha ah." I am not joking and I only bring this up to demonstright that this will not change the bottom of the "barrels" perspective. My guess is they will have thier "benifits" (enslavement checks) increased to meet the rise in cost and continue to eat this garbage. But for the folks just above the bottom that can still think it may do some good.
Yup. My general way of looking at welfare et. all is like yours. In the most dog eat dog take, I'd say welfare keeps cities safe and the wolves at bay. There are those who really benefit from welfare and then get off the dole. They there are those that stay on it..... but they wouldn't be doing something productive anyway, so keep them on welfare and away from me and my family. If we cut welfare, we just increase instability in society. Maybe if we cut welfare to the corporations / defense contractors.... that might help a few things....
"Maybe if we cut welfare to the corporations / defense contractors.... that might help a few things...."
& the banks.
EBT Welfare keeps Wal Mart Stores, ConAgra, General Mills, Xerox Corp, JPM, Pepsi Co, Coca-cola, P&G, Altria, and many other big businesses have a steady supply of consumers.
With tens of millions on EBT because jobs don't pay anything and aren't worth the people's time, these big businesses bottom lines are dependent on this revenue stream.
Believe me. There are lots of fat cats that love this EBT system... otherwise it wouldn't exist.
Things are broken because people in charge want them broken.
The current Federal Reserve loves inflation. It's not your daddy's Fed.
In the meantime it has the BLS to hide all the real numbers.
Mark to fantasy contiues.
"Mark to fantasy continues" --- The real probelm now for the central bankers and oligarchs is that everyone has figured this out and is also employing it.
When your monetary system has no connection to reality, it is based on faith and rule of law.
Hence, "full faith and credit"...
No faith, no more credit motherfuckers...
tick tock...
so, was the 'old fed' 'your daddy's fed'?
kinda like part time vs ebt, section 8, free shit like phone, rideshare, methadon, needles and sex(chicks for free)
come on which life style do you want? chicks for free or alarm clock in your head?
Pardon the underline crap, It won't undo.
I guess it depends of the quality of the "Chicks for Free" and the morality of the consumer.
I would love to see what people would have to work for if there were no minimum wage.
You would probably see them work for what they are worth.
When the risk reward trade off for theft, dealing drugs, pimping or violence exceeds that for 'honest' work or welfare, you'll get the former.
Black markets always arise when you take away lawful means of making a living, and the more you try to clamp down on those black markets, the more the risk premium rises.
You would be right if I didn't know people having to work for min. wage and the millions that would like to be employed in full time jobs (getting paid what they are worth). None of this is Their fault, being fucked over or trying to get that first job does not mean you are worth nothing. It's rough out there when you aren't a trust fund baby.
A good worker will only make minimum wage, if at all, for a brief period only once in his life: shortly after getting his first job.
A minimum wage makes it harder for unskilled workers, with no references, to get that first job.
If people have it difficult getting a first job, then there will be a shortage of workers, wages will go up and employers will take on more risk by hiring unexperienced people. Presto, the problem solved itself.
What do you care if anyone gets a job at all?
"What do you care if anyone gets a job at all?"
Because I care about people. Some of my best friends are people.
But what do i know? I can't even spell my last name!!
Sure, you care about people. Fine internet humanitarian you are.
If people have it difficult getting a first job, then there will be a shortage of workers,
Whaa? A shortage of workers? Are you fucking insane? Last count there are roughly 93,000,000 people not in the labor force. We have a loooong way to go before we have a shortage of workers.
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS15000000
Convincing people that we are in a long, slow grinding collapse, and have been for at least a decade or decade and a half is tough to do. Normalcy bias and all that. Normaly biases will rule the day so long as BAU is 99% boredom and 1% terror.
In upcoming decades it might be 250 million people not in the labor force due to offshoring and automation.
This is the situation we face, so how do we plan on dealing with it besides arguing the unpopular canard of abolishing the minimum wage which is the best argument the Mises crowd can come up with?
In that case lets not talk in terms of shortages. How about this wording: If workers have it more difficult to get a first job, the labor glut wont be as huge.
Look, theres just no reason for everyone to not only work but to work 40 hours a week, considering all the automation there is. You fuckers are bikering about a few cents an hour like it makes any difference.
The problem here is a fundamental contradiction between a supposed desire for efficiency and a supposed desire to work hard.
And those over fifty who are to old and have/had too many benefits. Fuck'm we can get someone to work cheaper for no benefits and he can train them before he goes. It's only ten years or so before they get that big SS check and they can live in high cotton then.
An employer is not allowed to hire anyone for less than the minimum wage. This is the floor.
The teenager who has never had a job and has no references and you have no idea whether this person will:
- show up to work or show up on time
- sue you for discriminating against their imaginary disability because you dare to ask them to do their job
- refuse to do anything they don't want to do
- steal from you
- quit and get another job next month after you trained him, etc.
This is your minimum wage worker. If someone is making minimum wage at fifty--after presumably working a couple of decades, then the cold hard truth is that they aren't worth more to the employer than this imaginary teenager! What does that say about the quality of this fifty year old worker? Do they just deserve to get paid more because they are old?
Right, but a lot of the jobs where they would have been more valuable to the employer than the teenagers have disappeared.
"Deserve's got nothing to do with it."
~William T Munny
Perhaps. But the WORKER is worth more even in the same job.
Nobody with an IQ in triple digits would pay a skilled and dependable 50-year-old burger flipper minimum wage--the same as you would have to pay a complete unknown off the street.
You would pay that 50 year old minimum wage or thereabouts if your margins said that you had to and that 50 year old could not find gainful employment in his area of expertise. You might give them a dollar or two an hour raise if they prove to be more dependable, but you're still going to pay them a shit wage or suffer even thinner margins and a higher risk of going bust. Values are distorted, and relying on free markets is going to leave you either on the black market, or out of business, because legal free markets do not exist and have not for quite some time.
Yeah, because we have a capitalist system.
/sarc
And in the real world, after the bankers have taken their cut and the government has piled numerous onerous and pointless regulations, the business will have very thin margins to begin with if they aren't big enough to buy their own congress critte, and that margin will be cut into by minimum wages going upr. Where are those extra FRNs to pay the increased minimum wage going to come from, exactly?
I guess we should just let the rich have even more because they Are taking that "thin margin" and fuck the rest. Good for the goose not so good for the rest.
Besides who cares? We're on a freight train to hell anyway according to ZH.
And again, WHERE ARE THOSE EXTRA FRNs GOING TO COME FROM?
(I'll give you a hint, if the extra FRNs come, which is not certain, they will come from the rich, but the rich will still get richer. The magic word is seigniorage here.)
If people have it difficult getting a first job, then there will be a shortage of workers
What? so they just give up looking and that's how the shortage arises? Is that your reasoning?
lol, ever occur to you some people need to work? Back in the day when classical economics ruled, that was the basis of reasoning opposite your conclusion. No welfare. Now people can jsut sit on the couch all day collecting their disability payments. or wind surfing.
Piss off.. We’ll sit back and watch your wage labor costs implode. Higher cost & no business. Even using reward card tactics won’t resurrect the failing model.
South Carolina Minimum Wage 2014, 2015
roadhazard, Piss off.. We’ll sit back and watch your wage labor costs implode. Higher cost & no business. Even using reward card tactics won’t resurrect the failing model.
South Carolina Minimum Wage 2014, 2015
at this point, i just want off this rock.
i promise i'll make a good pet, hippy vegan alien species. just let me fuck stuff and run around your space house.
Cynics are quitters, but you are no Quitter. You are a force of nature.
Release the Kraken!!
Damn, I thought live cattle/beef going from $1.17 to $1.65 per pound since april would have played a role in price hikes.
Shows what a stupid dirt farmer knows.
This won't be the end of the world. As much as ZH wishes it were true, minimum wage doesn't completely destroy the economy. All it does is cause inflation. Video games in Australia are $90 or $100 because their minimum wage is actually high enough to live on.
"As much as ZH wishes it were true, minimum wage doesn't completely destroy the economy."
Really? I must have missed the part of this site where ZH wishes that.
When you say "live on" what do you mean? I don't see people dying of starvation in the US.
I mostly agree with you, but I'm not sure I would go so far as to say that the reason video games are expensive in australia is for this reason. There may be other factors.
It's mostly a push for those that get the increase since prices also rise. It's a net loss for anyone who makes above minimum wage. For the rich, well, small price increases never matter. These companies will take a hit in earnings though. The franchise model doesn't lend itself well to these overhead cost increases. They'll have to be spread up to the corporate level. And it'll also likely reduce the number of new ones that open. People don't make a lot on these businesses and margins are thin. You have to own multiple franchises in order to make any money.
So true and inflation is what was needed in 2008 after lehman but instead they (CONgress who everyone elected) gave currency to the thieves so they could extend and pretend. So what should have happened is the Ben Helio drop onto the people and a raise in the minimum wage. But no, the thieves wanted it all.
So here we sit with the states raising the minimum wage not the corrupt gov. Now there is your hope and change. Live with it
Sorry but I did not need inflation. I do not need useful idiots telling me that the government should or should not have done this or that. Yeah, I'm talking to totw.
What should have happened is that the corrupt fucks on wall street should have gone out of business, we should have dealt with the very serious pandemonium that would have occured back then, and then set forth on building an economy in line with the reality of our situation. The further this shit gets extended, the more catostrophic the final failure of the current paradigm is going to be. If they pull something out of their asses this time around, the next iteration will be even more dangerous. Central planning does not work. Society is too complex to be captured in some economist's models.
So things costing a whole lot more is okay as long as people make a little bit more? Australians are retarded.
I know a tax when I see it. I am boggled that Congress sits on their collective asses and lets the exec carry off any poorly conceived activity/action they choose. We are doomed.
Almost always, Congress not acting is the best outcome.
States should be free to set their own wage laws, or not, as they wish. I 100% support a state's right to enact a policy I don't like. It only strengthens smarter states all the more.
But the voters from the Fail states then move to your smart states. Here's a better idea: strictly limited government.
Didn't want to buy a Freezer... but as Long as Wholesale Prices don't go up... must be time to find a wholesale meat seller.
- Demand Goes Down, Transportation & Wholesale Warehousing
- Demand Goes Down, Retail Store Demand
- Excise Taxes Go up
- Property Taxes Go Up
Just like I always said. "They want the USA to look like Europe", few Jobs, High taxes, High Cost of Living, Sluggish Economy, Crushed Dreams...
The dreams we were chasing weren't really that great to begin with.
Americans work more than anyone else to:
- buy more stupid shit
- buy a bigger tv
- buy a better vehicle than the jones
- buy a better mcmansion than the jones
- buy garbage for food that makes them fat & disgusting
- buy even more stupid shit
yeah. A "dream" it isn't. It's sad looking at these people raising kids thinking their kids can grow up to be free, when they're already being brainwashed into being mental slaves for the matrix.
Well you know. Our parents & Authorities teach us not to Dream of Smoking pot everyday and hanging out till we are ready to start a family.
We get taught to go to work & either be in charge or become a corporate Cog. First off they want to submit to authority and work for a couple dollars and hour with no real education.
You saw that because that's what you were looking for. What if some of us just needed a LIVING WAGE?
"Incubus" = narcissistic ideologue. Dangerous individual to stereotype, decide what kind of person I am or how I was going to spend my own money (when I have it).
I'm so not buying a big vehicle because of YOUR inferiority complex.
Fucking idiot.
Your desire for money dulls you.
People who end up with money in life are the ones who don't go after money as an end. Money is a means, nothing more.
Once you realize what the end is you're looking for, you can accurately appropriate the value of "money" to you.
The consequences are clear.
More motivated people will start a business and pay less taxes then they would as W2.
More unmotivated people will get on the dole.
Deficit bitchez!
Why get motivated when corporate CEO's pay themselves tens of millions of dollars for nothing more than a caretaking position that could be equally filled a drinking bird?
"Why get motivated when corporate CEO's pay themselves tens of millions of dollars for nothing" because they could see defaltion coming. They will be hurt to but just not as much.
Deflation won't fund the police state, so if you actually believe such is the case, prepare for asset seizures. Just another reason to withdraw from the criminal and fraudulent economy.
That reminds me of the CEO of JC Penney who ran the company into the ground after nine months of non-work and still got a multi-million dollar golden parachute.
Meanwhile the Austrian School blowhards think the employees who stock their shelves with product shouldn't get a 15 cent raise today to keep up with the inflation the said Austrians constantly whine about.
An employee shouldn't get $8 an hour to stock a shelf, they should get 25 cents an hour and be grateful for the "experience" according to these blowhards.
I worked my way up through shit jobs to get where I am at today, but believe me, I wish I could forget about that "experience". I just hope younger generations don't have to put up with this anti-human shit corporate world.
Right JR
A real LONG term deficit problem when more people laid-off loose their pensions and the tax payers have to pick up the pension tab. It will be felt for decades and people will ask, "How did this happen?"
It costs money to start a business stupid.
When you dont' have money, how do you start a business?
I have THREE busienss plans and no money or experience.
I know private equity who WANTS a track record.
I know that banks are not lending, it's equity > debt.
I know a retailer who was only able to get started from the revolving line of credit from the Bank of Husband and an LAPD officer who was able to save to start one up(the lapd officer was held at gunpoint by a violent drug dealer who is still running the streets because the stupid cops let him go).... you don't know how much faces beam at the very thought of running their own businesses.
It's hard work, it's competative. It is VERY RISKY.
You and your stupid boomer elected politicians are rooting for people to fail. Asia is a "communist" "third world" state that has been allowing businesses to exist and even thrive since they existed.
Mom and Pop shops will need a second wife and more kids.
obama's recent border policies should take care of that...
MOAR forced inflation - net result? accelerated deflation as many will just do without
Since there is no demand to create inflation, it must be done via law ex. Minimum wage hikes or forced healthcare purchases.
Look for more robots to take orders though...
Without wages rising far far above that ridiculuos "minimum wage" we can bid farewell to inflation, forced healthcare or not. Falling wages are strictly deflational, period.
Waaaaah, waaaah..
10 bucks an hour will not wreck the economy.
Printing 10 fucking TRILLION will do that just fine.
There would be unintended consequences from abolishing slavery and 1% stated this beforehand: a flourishing economy cannot afford pay for the work.
Nice report but there is always a problem using statistical analyses to argue for something like minimum wage and, that is, that someone else will show up with another statistical analysis that refutes it.
Minimum wage is wrong because an employer is just a customer of an employee's services at a wage agreeable to both. It is none of the voters' business what two people freely agree to. If an employee doesn't like his job he is free to quit and get a better one - or not work. And an employer has as much right to hire a less expensive employee as a shopper has to go to Walmart instead of Nordstrom.
What two consenting adults do in the privacy of the bedroom is MY business!!!1
Your ideas only work in a free world. You live in a civilization and it includes rules to curtail some freedoms. Deal with it. The employer still has a right not to hire a worker if the price is too high.
Lots of products have distorted prices: Medical services, college education, housing, etc.
You forgot Obama Care on list of price distortions.
I wrote medical services.
Works if there is no taxpayer funded income based dole. With said programs a very low wage that leads to an employee qualifying for government bennies is an indirect subsidy.
If we are going to subisdize wages then just be up front about it. Minimum income for everyone...hell it is just 1s and 0s.
Gotta keep that minimum wage high. God forbid, the underclasses learning how to work.
Wage slavery should be a crime. What should those slaves who feed you make? Living wages for everyone work in Germany and Japan why not the USA?
Because we don't want structural unemployment at 10 percent plus?
Whose this "we" that does not want structural unemployment? And how did you come up with that number anyway, 10%? And why do you give a shit if the underclasses learn or not to work?
With productivity reaching such levels, that there simply never will be enough wage labor to earn enough to buy the products, I declare that wishful thinking. ;)
Japan is probably a bad example since it is dead man walking economically. Germanys education/skills system is far different from the US. Population is small, compact and homogenous. I wont get into the glut of workers the US has.... Basically the US has a population problem. Technology is replacing workers faster than we can find new type of employment.
That hits the nail on the head: "Technology is replacing workers faster than we can find new type of employment." And it's in no way limited to the US ...
I've been saying that for years. We really don't need as many people, because there are a shitload if jobs that are never coming back. The only reason that Oblamo brought in all those illegals, is to continue growing the government (Like it ain't fucking huge already).
Because there would be no motivation for those who may think about aspiring to elevate themselves above the level of dumbfuck burger flipper to something higher.
Giving the leeches and takers of our society unearned pay raises just keeps them leeches and takers.
No one is a slave to their jobs here in the USA unless you are incarcerated. No one is forced to eat a diet of junk food. It is still faster, cheaper and more nutritious to open a can of Dinty Moore beef stew than eat a big mac and fries.
You should look for an apprenticeship in a trade rather than expect a successful career of serving fast food genius...
My god, blasphemous!
By the way, are there instructions with that can of Dinty Moore on how to open it.
Don't bother, Ghetto Monkey can't read.
Nobody forced you to suck on a meth pipe either stupid.
Why else would you be waiving a COLLECTIVIST flag?
Get outta Denver babe, get outta New York, Get outta Chicago, Get outta Atlanta babe,... Get outta Seattle, get outta Portland babe, Get outta Las Vegas, Get outta Miami babe,...
Hey, ZH, hire a proofreader...and pay him/her more than minimum wage:
...there simply wan't enough of a consensus (Arkansas speak?)
... to lower-middle -lass earnings. (Aye, the lassies should have middle-lass earnings, too.)
The best reason to raise the minimum is to incentivize people to get off the dole and work for their money. The longer the minimum stays stagnantt, the more working for a living looks like a bad deal compared to collecting food stamps and welfare.
It will depress corporate profits, to be sure. But every dime of these wages will get spent, which is not the case for dividends or capital gains increases through buy backs.
And the lives of the poorest will be better.
I'm for it, if the increases are modest.
Corporatism is defined as the union of government and business corporations.
Many who denounce the MIC, TBTF Fed finance, Obamacare by and for the insurance industry, Monsanto made Agriculture, etc.
nonetheless are also opposed to Labor actually opposing any of that.
Labor trade unions to get better wages and working conditions --- against
Unions of working class to get better wages , working conditions, consumer protections, environmental regulations --- against
Only atomized individuals acting separately is "approved" (except for business corporations and leaders).
40 hour work week --- bad
35 hour work week --- even more bad
worker safety regulations --- bad
social security for the general population --- bad
public schools --- bad
prohibitions on discriminatory practices --- bad
minimum wage levels --- bad
grudging acceptance of company unions and trade unions (especially if they are constrained from strikes)
and IWW type organization --- it's illegal (why? --- just follow the money).
Don't Forget- Fascism: is the union of government and business corporations.
...“The American fascists are most easily recognized by their deliberate perversion of truth and fact. Their newspapers and propaganda carefully cultivate every fissure of disunity, every crack in the common front against fascism. They use every opportunity to impugn democracy. ... They claim to be super-patriots, but they would destroy every liberty guaranteed by the Constitution. They demand free enterprise, but are the spokesmen for monopoly and vested interest. Their final objective toward which all their deceit is directed is to capture political power so that, using the power of the state and the power of the market simultaneously, they may keep the common man in eternal subjection.”
- Henry Wallace 1944
"The first is freedom of speech and expression -- everywhere in the world.
The second is freedom of every person to worship God in his own way -- everywhere in the world.
The third is freedom from want -- which, translated into world terms, means economic understandings which will secure to every nation a healthy peacetime life for its inhabitants -- everywhere in the world.
The fourth is freedom from fear -- which, translated into world terms, means a world-wide reduction of armaments to such a point and in such a thorough fashion that no nation will be in a position to commit an act of physical aggression against any neighbor-- anywhere in the world."
- FDR 1941
"...there simply wan't enough of a consensus to pass this at the Federal level."
Translation: There IS plenty of corporate campaign money going around at Federal level to keep minimum wage increase Legislation from happening.
We're all living in Amerika
Amerika ist wunderbar !!!
Since no consequences, why only to $10? Wouldn't minimum of $25 or $30 be an even more livable wage for po folks?
Shirley that wouldn't minimize the need for debt to pay for the useless shit that blindly gets produced. But honestly, we would not only need higher wages, but more wage earners in the first place. And that will never happen (it's too late, anyways).
than less and less people will go to college to debt them self
Attn William Banzaii: Draw a cartoon of politicians and bankers with their asses where there heads are and vis versa.
Increased minimum wages only squeeze out more workers, and this time it is the minimum wage level where all the the preponderance of jobs have been created.
Well I'm no Willie B but this photo says it all.
http://conservativenewjersey.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/head-up-ass1...
3 Crunchy taco combo from Taco Bell for $6.31? HAH! I can get a package of generic ExLax from Rite Aid for $3.24 and have the exact same effect!
Seriously, the establishments listed are pretty much a who's-who of places I explicitly AVOID going to.
I’m retired on Social Security, pension and dividends from the proceeds of my small business sale. I did not get any 30% increases in living wage on Jan 1. So guess what? No more stops at fast food for me or my wife…
People like to argue that minimum wage is inflationary. That's not true and for the following reason.
Why does govt raise min wage? The cost of living increases so they have to do something to make up for the shortfall. The cost of living goes up because the govt injects inflation into everything we do so the min wage is a reactive response to problem they created.
Even if it's just naïveté the destructive policies of liberals who have no economic understanding of business, and probably haven't worked a day in their life in the private sector, cause more harm then if they did nothing.