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The Gloves Come Off: Germany Says Grexit "Manageable" As Tsipras Demands Greek Debt Writeoff
With just three weeks until the Greek snap elections on January 25 in which Tsipras' Syriza is virtually assured of victory (unless somehow G-Pap's "new and improved" political party manages to steal enough votes to prevent this, although one wonders what his political campaign will be: "vote for us because this time we know how to avoid a sovereign bankruptcy"), Germany takes yet another opportunity to remind the Greeks that it won't be blackmailed (spoiler: it will) into another year of funding the insolvent Greek state which in turn will pretend to engage in another year of "reforms" (spoiler: it won't). Recall it was on New Year's Eve when Merkel's chief advisor Michael Fuchs explicitly used the "blackmail" word saying:
"If Alexis Tsipras of the Greek left party Syriza thinks he can cut back the reform efforts and austerity measures, then the troika will have to cut back the credits for Greece," he said.
"The times where we had to rescue Greece are over. There is no potential for political blackmail anymore. Greece is no longer of systemic importance for the euro."
Today, concerned that Tsipras' ascent to power will mean precisely that, namely more "blackmail" by Greece of Germany and the Eurozone, as a Grexit opens the way for a collapse of the monetary union and a return to the Deutsche Mark which would cost Germany far more than continuing the annual charade of keeping Greece in the Euro, Spiegel is out with another piece saying "Bundesregierung hält Ausscheiden Griechenlands aus dem Euro für verkraftbar", or loosely translated, the Federal Government considers Greece's exit from the euro manageable.
In the article Spiegel says, per Bloomberg, that German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble, contrary to the German government's previous stance, consider a Greek exit from the euro area to be manageable because of progress made since height of sovereign debt crisis in 2012, Der Spiegel reports in e-mailed summary of article, citing unidentified people close to govt.
Risk of contagion is limited because Portugal and Ireland have addressed their fiscal issues and ESM is ready as rescue mechanism while security of large banks to be maintained through banking union.
European lawmakers don’t know how a country could leave the euro while remaining in the EU and would have to task legal experts with clarifying issue.
German govt considers Greek exit from euro area to be almost inevitable if opposition leader Alexis Tsipras leads the country’s next govt, ditches austerity measures and stops servicing Greece’s debts.
Worse, a Grexit now would mean all hopes of ECB QE would be put on indefinite hiatus until the legal framework of not only funding sovereign deficits but also monetizing bonds from an imploding Eurozone is justified. It also means that peripheral bonds, which have priced in well over 100% of a European QE, would go bidless overnight, leading to market crashes across the continent, then to bank runs first across the periphery then the core, and ultimately lead to a full-blown European depression.
Reality aside, why is Spiegel going with this now? Simple: moments ago Tsipras made some headlines of his own, making it very clear just what will happen if and when his party wins the election in 3 weeks.
- TSIPRAS SAYS SYRIZA WANTS WRITEDOWN ON NOMINAL VALUE OF GREEK DEBT
- TSIPRAS SAYS TRUE MENACE FOR EUROPE IS MERKEL'S POLICY
- TSIPRAS SAYS GREEK DEBT IS NOT SUSTAINABLE, NEEDS RESTRUCTURING
And in detail, from Bloomberg:
Syriza’s win in forthcoming Greek snap elections will pave way for progressive policy change in Europe against German Chancellor Merkel’s austerity, party leader Alexis Tsipras says according to e-mailed transcript of speech in Athens today, with Podemos in Spain, Sinn Fein in Ireland to follow. Syriza will guarantee bank deposits. [ZH: curious, just how would Syriza do that?]. "Syriza will put an end to social tragedy, nightmare of austerity."
- Syriza not seeking nor planning to break with European partners, but to put end to economic and social absurdity of memoranda and austerity.
- Syriza seeks within framework of EU and European institutions to achieve realistic deal on servicing debt, developing real economy
- Syriza will conduct sincere, resolute negotiation on debt
As for the punchline, on one hand we have this:
- Germany had most of nominal value of debt written off in 1953, same should be done for Greece in 2015
... and on the other:
- Syriza wants quantitative easing by direct purchase of govt bonds by ECB
Alas Syriza does not get that one is incompatible with the other, and in fact a Greek debt write off means no more ECB QE as the ECB's balance sheet - a proud holder of tens of billions of insolvent Greek debt still marked to par - would become impaired, and thus crush any political capital Draghi may have left with the Germans and the Bundesbank.
That said, the consensus can certainly forget the ECB announcing public QE at its next monetary policy meeting on January 22, which will be followed just 3 days later by the Greek national elections. In fact, things in the coming weeks and months may get very ugly, fast depending on how things in Greece play out.
So after 3 years of kicking the can and pretending it is fixed, suddenly everything that is broken in the Eurozone threatens to float right back to the surface, leading to another showdown when photos such as this one become a daily occurrence.
The only question is whether this time anyone will believe the rhetorical "whatever it takes" threats uttered by the one central bank which for the past 4 years has proven it is utterly incapable of acting, instead chosing to talk each and every day, a strategy that has worked brilliantly, until now.
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When it's manageable it's a problem but under control, when they've lost control it's not a problem.
Translation: Germany has seized enough Greek land and assets to let the rest of the EU get screwed.
On one hand, I am happy that Syriza is about to show the EU how “manageable” the Grexit will be.
On the other hand, Syriza is basically a communist party and just a few days ago ZH had a great article about Moldova, with communists at the helm.
On the third hand… ahhh, never mind… ;-)
Looney
We have the technolgy to print money and to write off debt.
We are the master of the universe.
The rightful owner of the world.
fasten your seatbelts baby
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKHUGvde7KU
There will be a Northern Euro, led by Germany and Holland, and adding Poland and the Czech Republic,
and a Southern Euro, led by France, because they like to strut around like banty hens, probably including Ukraine.
Il est inévitable. Get on with it already.
They thought they’ve been kicking a regular can. They’re about to find out that the can is full of “Woop Ass”. ;-)
Looney
Popcorn Bitchez!!
I'm ready. Let the show begin.
The only logical course is for Greece to form an economic union with Detroit.
Interest is mathematically unpayable.
Not entirely true. If a default happens then the liquidity that the entity has borrowed still exists in the marketplace and will not be destroyed by the retirement of the principle borrowed..
Interest just guarantees that some will default. The Debt Paradigm is a receipe for someone's future failure. Of course the lending institution will acquire ownership of REAL ASSETS at bargain prices upon the debtor's liquidation of assets.
Then the cycle begins anew when the lender "sells" these assets to new borrowers.
The problem is Greece tells the lenders to write down the debts without giving back real assets. :)
This means Greece would be a bad example for others and they can not let that happen...
Long bread helmets
Everything is A-OK all right with the world, see....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Crap
I though I was going to watch an Astley music video...but I got Rickrolled...damn...
Heck, everything is cool as long as ISDA doesn’t consider 25 cents on the dollar to be a default and the IMF steps in with SDR swaps for Euros to save the ECB’s bacon like the Fed did in late 2011.
But things could get dicey if ITexit starts looking good to a bunch of Goldman Draghi’s countrymen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4QpG5QXGB0
Ask yourself if the same scenario that happened in Ukraine now happened in Greece before the elections. If there was a coup against the pro EU govt and the coup govt held elections. Would John McCain and the CIA chief, and Biden all come down to visit and express support.
If you exposed McCain to a strong electromagnetic field I bet those ICs they put in his head would go haywire and he would demand bombing runs along Penn Avenue and that China nuke Washington
How do you know about the ICs??? That's classified. Watch for drones over your house and black SUVs on your lawn...
I am not writing about Greece.
I am writing about the Debt Based Fractional Banking System.
Currency is created when a Debt is incurred. Likewise Currency is destroyed when a debt is retired.
From the transscript of Chris Martenson's Crash Course,
http://www.peakprosperity.com/video/85833/crash-course-chapter-7-money-creation-banks
"For now, I want you to understand that money is loaned into existence. Conversely, when loans are paid back, money ‘disappears.’
NOTE THE KEY PHRASE..WHEN LOANS ARE PAID BACK.
If the loan is NOT REPAID, as WHEN somebody DEFAULTS, then that CURRENCY does not disappear, does it? It remains in the Currency Supply.
The amount to pay the Interest is never created. That is true. I cannot agree more.
Then where does the Interest come from? It comes from that pool of Currency, which is left in the Currency Supply. after someone else defaults.
The current paradigm has been designed so that DEFAULTS happen. The fact that the INTEREST is never created ENSURES that DEFAULTS WILL HAPPEN.
And yet I am junked for telling you the conclusion?
I cannot believe the IGNORANCE on this forum. You can be given simple, small and digestable tidbits of information. You can regurgitate them.
But then you cannot INFER from them just what in the hell is happening to you?
The currency is all a fiction. There is nothing real about it. It is just a ledger entry.
However the REAL Assets are just that....REAL.
It is because that the Interest was not created that the mechanism will ensure that defaults happen.
It is BY DESIGN so that Bankers can steal YOUR REAL ASSETS.
Most just report half of the story on those damned popular videos. They fail to see the picture.
But Chris Martenson's video series is actually good and exposes the mechanism and the UNDERLYING REASON...WHY. It is in the Crash Course.
If it does not sink in the first time then I'd suggest strongly that you listen to it, and READ the damned transcripts, until it does.
It is not currency at issue. It is the fact that the paper representing the loan was functioning as someone's wealth. The owner considered they had 'money'. Now that illusion is destroyed and the pool of 'money' is smaller. That can lead to an increased value assigned to the currency. This is called deflation and fiat systems cannot survive in deflationary environments for long. Society will demand that debts are made easier to pay. Reversion to very hard money usually means revolution if the currency becomes so valuable that the economy cannot function. The idea that a few banks could own everything is not a realistic scenario. Guillotines were rolled out for far less.
When writing of Private Parties who traded Currency for that Note the fact remains that the Currency was spent into the Economy. That is true Capital, a true loan, and the Private Party does incur a Capital Loss as the Note becomes VALUELESS.
The Private Party does lose VALUE and it is most definitely deflationary on his Balance Sheet as the loss is made very real.
However it is different for a Fractional Reserve Bank as they gave up nothing which belonged to them in the first place.
First they had absolutely no capital to loan in the first place.
The loan which was originated created the Capital in the first place.
Now if you were a Private Party and could just print the cash needed to make the loan then you would suffer no loss upon a Default as you did not part with any of your own Capital in the first place, right? But if you did that then you'd be a guest for the extended stay at the Grey Hotel, with Bars in every room, and an roommate named Bubba to keep you cozy, warm, and...well...I digress.
But that is the difference between you and the Banks.
That is what QE was all about. It was to recapitalize the Banks after they suffered major losses after the Housing Meltdown of 2007-2008. That currency from the Defaulted Home Loans was not retired through repayment and, thus, we experienced some profound Price Inflation in necessities as a result. Furthermore the Federal Reserve absorbed the Default Home Loan paper through the last QE, the MBS buyout from the Fed.
Even today the pool of Currency from the massive Home Loan Defaults is still circulating, in the Currency Supply, as INTEREST RATES have been supressed and have not been allowed to rise in order to remove it.
While I detest Keynesian Economics, unfortunately, that is the current paradigm. Interest Rates were designed to be raised in order to drain excess liquidity from an overheated economy to stem the Inflationary Forces. This is taught in Econ 101. But they did not allow that to happen as the US Government would become insolvent due to its massive debt load.
We did have an expansionary inflation in our economy in the price for commodities and for necessities.
However the United States was "successful" in that we exported most of our inflation to China and, in turn, created massive bubble markets over there.
But now those bubbles are set to pop.
Defaults, as a result, will happen. Debt will not be retired according to the Keynesian Model.
Then the real Hyperinflationary fun begins.
Deflation always precedes a Hyperinflationary inferno.
Somehow I think that you already know this.
You wrote, "Reversion to very hard money usually means revolution if the currency becomes so valuable that the economy cannot function."
This is exactly what happened in Weimar Republic Germany. Cash was so scarce and valuable that people began to circulate promises to pay.
And, then,soon afterwards, the whole damned thing exploded.
Our path has not yet crystalized. It still can go hyperdeflationary as easily as it can go hyperinflationary. But go, and it will go, and that is the certainty...
BTW...The top 1% own more than 60% of Americans and the guillotines have not rolled yet.
As long as they are not hungry then they will not rise up.
But there is a drought in California and the USA has had famines in the past and is not immune to famine.
Remember that one of Herbert Hoover's 1928 Campaign promises was a "Chicken in every pot"? People were even hungry in the Roaring Twenties.
Nice chatting with you, Doc.
"If the loan is NOT REPAID, as WHEN somebody DEFAULTS, then that CURRENCY does not disappear, does it? It remains in the Currency Supply.
The amount to pay the Interest is never created. That is true. I cannot agree more.
Then where does the Interest come from? It comes from that pool of Currency, which is left in the Currency Supply. after someone else defaults.
The current paradigm has been designed so that DEFAULTS happen. The fact that the INTEREST is never created ENSURES that DEFAULTS WILL HAPPEN. "
You are 100% right, Tall Tom.
The INTEREST is NEVER created. Defaults are a key FEATURE of the debt-based fiat currency system.
Denying defaults -aka crony-capitalist bailouts- place undue strain on Debtors within the system that would otherwise be more likely to remain solvent and pay down their debts.
ZIRP is another device for starving existing Debtors of interest income with which to satisfy debt organcally.
Greece is just a bit player. Central Europe is in grave danger. The Americans seem hellbent on pressuring Russia into dumping treasury holdings. The precedent thus set, a run will follow, leaving Central Europeans unable to pay their gas bill. They have the power to pre-empt another bankster-driven war across their lands. Will they?
They're about to find out that the can they have been kicking is actually a boomerang.
France leading anything....I'd love to see that comedy...
LOLOLOLOLOLOL
Why does Inspector Clouseau, leap to mind?
There are practical considerations. Europe is hopelessly deficient in energy and local food supplies.
A North/South realignment would help address thoe problems in a realistic manner.
So what do you think will happen the to euro-north? The Swiss franc comes to mind. Pretty sure it will be a true reserve currency I'd like to hold. Game over for business in the process.
Good point. The transition could get fugly.
The Swiss like their independence, as do the Danes, but I could see one or both joining a new,"cleaner" Northern Euro.
Might include the Baltic Free States, who could use the help, and could handle it, or even Hungary.
Here's an odd angle. This helps with Russia. The Ruskies would be much less intimidated by a split Euro than they are now. That could help on several fronts.
You know as much as I do, probably more.
Thinking not a lot of those countries would want to join a union with a rocket currency and would choose the south. Hungary has the loosest central bank around and loves the freedom.
I'll leave my opinions on the coming Russian leadership change to other posts.
Hungary has close ties with Austria, but they still have that Gypsy wild side. You're probably right.
I asked a German friend who vacationed there often, and he said they have nice chicks, then he asked,
how young do you like them?
My guess would be the Swiss will keep their franc. If a new northern Euro shows up, they'll just peg to it and continue business as usual. The problem for the the Swiss, Germany, and the rest would be selling their stuff to the rest of Europe who is dealing with a crappy currency. So they lose market.
Right now, it seems to me the game is as follows: northern Europe supports the weaker guys who represent a big chunk of their market. This is fairly stupid on the surface, because why do you give money to your customers? But in typical devious fashion, the bailout money comes from taxes, so the net effect is just that the workers in Germany, etc., just become poorer while the financial players only benefit. Germans, you know, don't make much for their work. They are the horses pulling the carriage - just given enough grain to keep them going.
I would like to point out a few things with the "myth" that a new NEURO would be the end of the German export machine.
1) Annual German GDP growth from 1948 to 1999 (last year of a free floating DM) was 2.3% per annum. Since the introduction of the EUR its been 0.8% per annum. Now while exports and growth don'T directly go hand in hand -- in Germany -- there is a direct coorelation. Thus, Germany has actually exported less, when compared to exports as a % of GDP now than in 1999 with the DM.
2) Germany (as well as Austria and the Nethlerlands) have next to no natural resources. They must import all raw materials, add their German "value added" engineering and re-export said stuff -- many times to the original countries of origin. If a NEURO comes into existance (which is a German play on words, NEU = new while Nord Euro is what it would stand for -- its quite catchy) the cost of raw materials, and energy would fall through the floor here. It would lead to additional consumer spending as the average person needs to spend less on their energy and gas bills and more on stupid shit that they don't need.
3) Exports to the PIIGS+France have been cratering since 2010. This is something that EVERY FINANCIAL NEWS SOURCE (except ZH) has ignored, especially in Germany. The German media has to keep the myth going that if Germany leaves the EUR no one can buy a new Mercedes in Italy anymore. I would venture to say this is not only wrong, but horribly misleading. Right now in Spain for example, with unemployment at 30% people cannot afford a new Siemens washing machine, Bosch power drill -- muss less a pretty new 3 Series. If the PIIGS+France can decouple and devalue these people who have been pushed out of the labor market (or are still "employed" but under-employed) will be able to afford these new fancy tid-bids.
I say all this to say that a NEURO wouldn't be the end of German exports, but would be the reignition thereof. The elities can never let this happen, as people would see quite quickly that they do not need them anymore and they lose their power. (See Germany 1948-1999 the US from 1945-1973) I think Germany intetionally inflicts this economic schorched earth policy on the South of Europe for one reason and one reason only -- skilled labor.
Right now things are so shitty in the PIIGS+France many skilled laborers are packin up and heading to Germany where they can get jobs. While the unskilled labor makes a B-line to France and the UK. Its a socially, great gig the Germans have going for them at this point & time. The German demographic hole is a massive culture-ending nation-bankrupting problem coming down the pipe for Germany like Japan is experiencing now. (Germany isn't nearly that bad -- but they need 5-10 million more people) I think they are stretching this out to get as many skilled laborers from the PIIGS+France to move here. This is just my tin foil hat having.
Interesting comments - thanks.
Just for clarity, I never said Germany would crater - just that they would lose some local market and this is almost certainly true.
The NEURO countries would gain some advantages, but I think also be in something of the state that Switzerland is in now. That is, they have to peg their currency and print as necessary to maintain the peg. The net result of printing is eventually (if not immediately) to rob the populace. Swiss people mostly just let the authorities handle the money issues and don't think much about the effects, but the result is a constant scramble for a buck. Everyone trying to rip each other off.
I understand your point, but you are incorrect.
At worst -- things would remain ca., the same, re; exports to the PIIGS, but this isn't likely.
BMW sold more cars to Greece is 2000 than they do today. Same with Spain. Ask yourself why.
Time will tell - the final and best judge of our speculations.
Hedgers, this is just Kabuki, come on, Diebolds got your back... Narrow win for the good guys, Germany east between 80 and 120 billion euros and buys 18 months. The issue isnt greece, if it were that simple it would have been over long ago, its the Italian banks holding greek paper...
Also keep in mind the IMF (Read US taxpayer, hasnt chimed in yet).
Inspector CLOUSEAU ?
Sort of a cheap shot on France there. These kind of hateful comments and “good jokes” coming from “superior people” are usual in ZH, when it is about the French.
But « Don't through stones at others if you live in a glass house »
For instance, remember September 2001 and the «exceptional efficiency and foresight» of US Police, FBI, CIA, NSA, etc, etc ... How many american «Inspector CLOUSEAU» inside? ... or were they Mr BEAN ?
Fuck the French
Hey I like french women once ya hose em down soap em up and shave em they're not to bad ;)
Fuck USA and NATO, time to leave USA imperialism: glad that De Gaulle send you two frigate to bring back our gold.
Why would you think incompetence was involved in 9/11?
Extremely well organized, I'd say. Not easy to drop three buildings in their footprints like that , and successfully blame some fella living in a cave halfway across the world, without our wonderful MSM investigative journalists smelling a rat.
ORI posted this link recently, it's fucking marvelous.
http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/pentalawn.html
OMG that was funny!
Thanks SD & ORI
Good to see that Snopes.com is maintaining its committment to truthiness.
"There is no potential for political blackmail anymore."
Oh yes, there is. Tsipras is perhaps the first influential politician who fully grasped how the eu scam really works and how to exploit it effectively. Although, 'revenge' would perhaps be more appropriate term. In fact, Tsipras is just openly doing the same what all others are trying to do behind the scenes, to get ECB 'to work'. The new element on the scene is substantial write-off of Greek debt but that just confirms Tsipras rightfully understood that if 'money' can be created out of thin air it can also be annihilated back into thin air (at least in its debt form). At least, the law of conservation of mass would finally take effect.
Tsipras has all trump cards in his hands. He knows very well about Draghi's 'enormous political efforts invested into the EU project that EU opponents tend to underestimate' as well as 'whatever it takes' mantra. He equally well knows about the 'contagion', both financial and political should Greece leave the euro(zone). Needless to say, soon other countries would apply the precedent and follow Greece.
And how will Syriza guarantee bank deposits? Very easily, by issuing a law enforcement that explicitly forbids bail-in action. A EU counter-revenge would be imminent but Tsipras has its big ace, drachma... right at the bottom of the house of cards. Just to pull it out.
Enjoy the carte blanche, Alexis!
Takes one to know one.
Vichy turned the world more than once, please recall.
Without the French, you would still be kissing the Queen's ass.................
Poland in the Nord Euro? You are kidding right? They want a war with Russia and are a zio stooge country like USA.
Italy did not need the EU or Euro. They should have stayed out.
Greece should go with Russia. They are both Orthodox Christians and Russia will treat them better.
Everyone that disagrees with you and your worldview is a zionist. Just a way to avoid engaging any different point of view in a meaningful way.
QE over
FED raising rates
Oil crash
Commodities crash
China cracking down on corruption
Russia and China solidifying partnership
Saudis making very clear statements
Germany making very clear statements
Something has changed, to be sure. The vagueness is over
Nobody has raised rates.
Nobody is going to raise rates when the whole bloody world is facing soft like steaming cow pie economies and deflation.
"Nobody has raised rates.
Nobody is going to raise rates when the whole bloody world is facing soft like steaming cow pie economies and deflation. "
Russia raised rates.
Yes. Now the flimsy fiat finance is ending, and reality comes into focus.
Now everyone will jettison their debt and choose (new or old) sides.
Who runs Bartertown...natural and energy resources will run things for a while until the new currency and regimes get setup and settle down.
Totally agree, Freddie.
"Poland in the Nord Euro?"
Poland, BTW, still does not use the euro at all. They still use their own 'zloty' as the national currency. Of course, they are obligated to link it to the euro through an exchange-rate mechanism.
"...and a Southern Euro, led by France, because they like to strut around like banty hens, probably including Ukraine."
Definitely including Ukraine if they have any sense. Puzzle it out:
Who would you rather have as migrant farm workers or new immigrants? Ukrainians, or North Africans?
Geopolitics :
France provides food and its farmers receive European subsidies ( CAP : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Agricultural_Policy ). The relative lack of farmland in some European countries contributes to France's power in the EU.
I do not think France would welcome unreservedly into the EU a big country ( it used to be slightly bigger than France, not sure now ) with very fertile farmland.
That remains to be seen.
The problem is that Moldova's communists are the communists the Federal Reserve/Bank of England/ECB like. Sort of like our communists. If Soros can not profit from it like the banksters, then they are bad communists.
Of course there is no such thing as a good communist period, so it does get a little bit confusing to those of us who still have a whiff of sanity left.
It's all stupid labels. Political labels are like music genre labels - they mean shit today. I think it was John Pilger who said - it's socialism for the elite. i.e. 1% and capitalism for the rest... well put indeed.
on the foutth hand, how many Greeks have been "stacking" in preparation for inevitable event. Or will they wake up SHOCKED one day that the fiat they hold will get them a third of what it would have bought yesterday.
ditto....nevermind.
and why is that? say what you want, but comunists has a long history of resistance against banksters and fascism, when they /banksters and fascists /fuck up, it is comunists and anarchists who usually appear...
and they fucked up BIG this time again
yes...the powerful parasites, who control the guns, and the legal systems often hate each other. but that's just like drug lords fighting for territory while neither has any virtue.
+107 for having the guts to use the word "virtue" on an economics/geopolitical site.
Well, if you've read the History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon, then you would know that a lack of virtue within the governing body directly leads to the decline of that government. Just look at any quotes from the Roman era:
"Laws are silent in times of war."
"Politicians are not born; they are excreted."
"Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book."
That may be true for every other society in history, but America is different. We're exceptional!
goddamned kids, if I toldja once I've todja 100 times to stop trying my patience and go get jobs, you're 35 years old and still living in the basement writing books and listening to loud Black Sabbath crap.... come on Margie, get a move on, I'm gonna miss my flight to Heathrow, I've got an appointment at the Dolphin flats to make... it's for the children, damnit.
So everyone goes solo against the system right? You make is damn easy for the banksters... they would only need literally ONE person with a gun, as muscle..
All against them NEVER united, way to go
" it is comunists and anarchists who usually appear... "
My ass. Communists don't show up because communists are already there.
Communists are nothing but fascists devoid of business acumen or respect for property rights.
Further: most of what have traditionally been called anarchists are nothing more than communists with masks and masked intentions.
Federal Reserve is somehow a Communist party too. Communism for the rich is good, but communism for the poor is bad?
The FR is a group of elite progressive / liberal/communist/socialists. Use whatever term you want. They all mean the same thing now. They will take your money , create a 2 class system and fuck everyone else.
There is only one type of communism and it always benefits a small elite group at the expense of everyone else.
Yeah, but you're just talking about real-world communism.
The communism of our universities and think-tanks is an ideal to which we should all aspire!
As the 100+ BILLIONAIRES in the Chinese government prove
"There is only one type of communism and it always benefits a small elite group at the expense of everyone else. "
Communist brand Oligarchy. The only brand of communism available.
No. There is no other hand.
Probably the only line worth remembering from the Fiddler on the Roof.
Communists will seize assets
Bullshit. Germany does not own assets in Greece. It's rather the other way round. Greek oligrachs and corrupt politicians bought real estate like crazy in Germany.
And they also use German companies to buy... Greek islands, of all things.
No. The german banks are off the hook and the risk has now been spread to all european taxpayers. Angela does not care any more.
There is a subtle point in the political rhetoric coming from Greece. The state of the economy seems to be blamed on Germany and their stance towards the EU crisis. If Greece exits and crashes good luck to the Germans holding on to anything there.
Greece would do well back on the Drachma. Everyone would vacation there. All their products would sell be ause they would be cheap. Demand for labor would reappear.
Russia seems poised to help. The nonSouthStream they worked out with Turkey will emerge from the Black Sea in European Turkey, by-passing foolish Bulgaria and right near the Greek border. From there, it could go to Serbia and on to Bunga Bunga in Italy.
Spot on, conscious.
By re-routing their pipeline through Turkey (screw you, Bulgaria!) the Russians are engaged in a clever power play in SE Europe, which is furious at the EU's South Stream blunder. I could even envision countries like Greece and Serbia joining Russia's Eurasian Union someday ('Orthodox brothers!').
Spot on, conscious.
By re-routing their pipeline through Turkey (screw you, Bulgaria!) the Russians are engaged in a clever power play in SE Europe, which is furious at the EU's South Stream blunder. I could even envision countries like Greece and Serbia joining Russia's Eurasian Union someday ('Orthodox brothers!').
seized Greek land?
And the Greeks can't seize it back because there are already German tanks positioned on it??
I'd like to hear some more of your fantasies.
Maybe it should be turned over to those who can make it productive?
As decided how / by who?
The Market?
I have heard of this thing called a market. I understand they used to exist at one time.
Yeah, I remember that time: The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
Only in books, I'm afraid.
I think you wanted to say The Free Market but you have already been brainwashed so well that tiny difference slipped away from you
Please shake me when we have free markets again.
I think they have more or less a call option. Better wait for Drahma.
tsipras better sleep with one eye open. and it might not be a bad idea to get a gun, if he doesn't already carry one. the man, unfortunately, is prime assassination material.
The Left doesn't like guns.
Cuz they are girly men.
Because they are statists.
Statist girly men.
The left does like guns, and lots of them, but only in the hands of government.
Yes, guns are only for government and only for use against citizens. Mao was honest when he said "All power comes from the barrel of a gun."
The Left is all for gun control. Guns are controlled by the State alone. Make no mistake, the Left is the same everywhere.
So what do Americans do with their guns ? Do they rise up and uphold the Constitution - say 4th Amendment ? Do they stop Immigration ? Do they stop the Fed debasing the US currency ? Do they stop Corrupt Congress ?
What are these guns for in the US, shooting rabbits ?
The Left doesn't like guns.
Bullshit...The Left loves guns even more than the Right...
The Empirical Evidence is OVERWHELMING on that point. Just what Administration is buying up the ammo like there is no tommorow (because...er...there is no tommorow.)???
But they, like the Right, certainly do not want them...IN YOUR HANDS.
After all they are Statists and that is a threat to their existence.
(Do not fall into the Right's BULLSHIT. They say they do not want OBAMACARE but voted to fund it. Money talks and BULLSHIT walks.)
The Rethuglicans want Obamacare "to go away" just as much as the Deceptocrats want to end "racial division", i.e. not at all, and never.
Assassination? Only if a Soros-color revolution failed to get rid of Tsipris!
Guys, calm the fuck down, nobody is going to Grexit. Germany just says these things in order to have the population believe that their elected politicians are actually going to defend their savings and tax Euro's. They won't, but Zee German Sheeples just don't know that yet...
The current SPD, CDU/CSU Eurofile government is 100% commited to the Euro(pean) project, so don't think that aunt Merckel will throw a spanner in the works.
Just like the Dutch PM Marx Rutte, who always wants to appear Euro-critical around election time (or when the government has to transfer €1,1 billion extra to Brussels), but in reality they all lick the heels of Schulz, Juncker & Co.
My €0,02: it's all posturing so that in a few days/weeks/months/years (*) time they can say to the sheeple: "look dear citizens, we really really really were against it, but unfortunately due to the latest stock market crash/CDS spike/bond sell off/Euro sell off (*) we now have to accept a Greek bail out/Eurobonds/German savers bail in." (*)
* delete as appropriate, multiple answers possible.
German population does not believe that bullshit. Two years a go say said the Euro crisis is over, Greece is saved. Germans are on the streets in thousands these days to protest Islamisation, plundering of social systems by refugees flooding from regions, where US foreign politics created chaos.
Would Greece and Cyprus side with Russia ?
Will Turkey ?
@ Bunga Bunga.
I don't want to belittle the problems, especially not regarding some poorly integrated immigrants, but on the other hand Germany has a population of 80m people(zz). A few thousand demonstrating in the streets is hardly representative of the entire nation. Merkel is smart though, and she realizes that this could potentially spiral out of control, so she has mentioned it in her New Year's speech and tries to nip it in the bud by suggesting that this Pegida movement belongs in the extreme right wing corner. She could not be more wrong of course, but unfortunately this is what politicians do: lie, cheat and manipulate.
People realize that many things are not right, but somehow they can't really put their finger on it. Some are worried about their savings, others are worried about the failed multi-cultural society that was bestowed upon them by the idealistic greens and lefties, while others are worried about their jobs or terrorism. Have a look at this video from Anthony Curtis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcy8uLjRHPM It perfectly sumarizes the problem that many citizens of the world are facing.
People's believes are fragmented, and IMHO especially the disciplined and obedient Germans will not easily rebel against their government. They entrust their government blindly, that's why their shock and disappointment will be great once they find out that they've been lied to, but unfortunately then it'll too late.
Germans got ripped off after WW I, got ripped off during the Weimar Republic, they got ripped off during the Great Depression, and the Germans will also get ripped off during the Great European Wealth Transfer.
A few million being extinguished in the Camps was a minority as well.
PEGIDA is stigmatized by politicians and media for being racist and nationalist, but that is not true. A German media outlet sent an undercover reporter to answer questions to other media reporters in a way to discredit the movement, but this coup blew up.
PEGIDA is pro immigration, they want more social workers for integration, they want to implement the Swiss immigration model as well as public polls like in Switzerland. They are against parallel societies like Sharia law, they are against radicalism and hate propaganda no matter what religion or political movement.
Full position paper can be read here (in German):
http://europenews.dk/de/node/88178
Most politicians hate the movement, because it is not left or right, not in favor of one of the popular parties but it is in the center of the society and they ask questions and want reforms which were ignored for too long. Last time there were 15,000 in the streets of Dresden and the protests are growing. There will be a protest every Monday. During first protest against the communist regime in 1989 only a few hundred took to the streets, but within 2 months there were 400,000 people on a single protest event.
Well, we can only hope the will of the people is at long last taken into account by the government; they've had quite a long run of complete anti-democracy and it needs to stop. None of the current policies are good for the citizens; imagine if they manged to exit NATO; and invite the troops to leave the country; wow. real progress, that would be.
I refuse to wish for; or verbalize, or publicize the possibility that the German People will be "ripped off"; any further by their completely anti-democratic political 'leaders". More power to the popular movements; and down with the oppressors.
That's what she meant by, "Fuck the EU." Ruin everyone around you and scope the spoils. Burn the rest.
Pegida? We're supposed to ignore them. They're obviously all RACISTS!!! don't you know.
Guys, calm the fuck down, nobody is going to Grexit.
THAT, right there, IS THE PROBLEM.
So sticking it to the German Citizens to bail out Greece is okay with you?
Fuck you and your SOCIALISM, GLOBALIST TROLL. Your dreams of a United Staes of Europe are dying.
I can hardly wait for the CDS imbalances that take the entire Derivatives Market into a MELTDOWN.
By the new agreed budget putting US taxpayers 'on the hook' for financial derivatives..could either stabilize the derivatives market...or cause a very dramatic dragon-eating-tail conundrum.
Eventually it may tumble, sooner than later.
Long Dragons.
Short stabilization.
The traders need that volatility for the skim.
@ Tall Tommy
Obviously you have a severe problem with reading and understanding. Quit sniffing glue Tommy the Tit, becaus I NEVER said that I'm dreaming about a US of Europe and I NEVER said that I think it's okay to stick a Greek bail out to the German citizens.
I was just saying that POLITICIANS use these phrases in order to manipulate and prepare the sheeple/electoriate.
Obviosuly you are either as dumb as a pile of bricks or completely brainwashed by the mainstream media so that you only have the capacity to grasp one or two sentenses/headlines/soundbites, and then you quickly jump to some kind of conclussion because are not able to read the rest of the story nor understand what the proper context is.
Uh-oh.
You have called down smitings, woe and deep rue-age upon yourself for questioning Tall Tommy. He has friends in high places and he's not afraid to use them on Godless heathen Communists.
Satan always uses those tricks and deceptions like logic and rational discourse to lead the lambs astray and into the clutching arms of wild-eyed Commies.
Repent or taste the grapes of divine wrath.
TT needs to perhaps focus better on his targets or set his priorities straight, because I'm definitely no Eurofile EUSSR lovin' communist. He just needs to take his dyslexic head out of of his ass and READ what I've written! He'll then quickly discover that we're more or less on the same page.
In the mean time, watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcy8uLjRHPM
It's only 5 minutes, but explains a lot about the media and (perhaps?) ZH's role in the grand scheme of things? ;-)
There's something you should know, Tom: Germany isn't bailing out Greece; they're bailing out Greece's bondholders--mostly the big banks in Frankfurt, London and New York. Ordinary Greeks don't see a penny of that money. They get austerity instead of a bailout.
In the highly unlikely event Greece gets a hail mary pass on its debts. Who's going to first out of the blocks demanding they get one too, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland?
Having EU fatigue. Don't care. Wake me up, when it breaks up. Did anybody notice the UKIP party won the elections ? Boy do they need to get out of that mess; not that it would save them, but they might get a few years of limping along out of it.
They will be written off..but by the ECB after they have bought them all....when you have a printer..what is a mistake??
Actually, in 2011 and 2012, they forced all European pension funds to hold at least 75% of their holdings in government bonds.
guess which once yielded the most and which they bought... pension funds where saved because of that tactic...
they are already underwater bigtime now and if they would just erase that.... my god...
so it won’t happen. But maybe the ECB can buy it all and Greece can be the first to issue the SDR as the new currency.
Well you know what they say: Fuck the EU!
And the Ukraine would gladly take Greece's position on the Euro breadline
Anywho, this can only mean one thing...It's time for DAVOS!
Glad they invited you, William.
My invite seems to have been lost in the mail;)
My Davos invitation will arrive in 2080
Ever the optimist william, ever the optimist lol.
I I I didn’t know that... I just figured everybody wanted to be like us because we have better food, better social care, better manners, nicer looking woman, higher living standard, better education and the coolest history on the planet...
I guess you won with your dollar cheeseburgers, cardboard houses, fat woman, Obamacare and Disney channel that just invents history to make nice cartoons...
All of those Muslims and Africans flooding into Europe don't want to be like Europeans. They set up their own little countries within your cities. They are only there to abuse your welfare systems and women. We have the same problem with hordes of Mestizos, but they are not as incompatible as the Muslims.
Another protonationalist brainwashed opinion, expressed as fact. Only the ignorant and the arrogant make generalizations about an entire nationality. Im quite sure you wouldn't want me judging you off of Belgium's behavior. I generally like your posts, but in this one you sound like you possess all the negative qualities that you accuse every American of having (specifically arrogant, poorly informed, and obnoxious).
Not really, I love America and for me it’s a icon. If I would need to pick another country to live, I’d pick America... right after Italy, France and Malta. I’m just teasing you :)
There is now a place reserved for you on the upcoming Moon Town M476, SD. Congratulations. You passed the test.
GREAT!! Now I don’t have to worry anymore about those extra pounds from the hollidays!
Wrong. It is about 20,000 Euros per kilogram to Low Earth Orbit.
There will be a surcharge for that excess body mass, comrade.
You don't mind, right?
Moon Town means Moon Town...
I'm not familiar with your personal experience with the US, but what I try and tell people is that, like the EU, the culture and values are different from place to place, and from person to person.
We have alot of brainless freeloaders (like the freeloader riots you've had in Belgium) who are responsible for the shitty culture that you seem to think is representative of everyone who lives here, but that is only part of the story.
The majority are just people who are hardworking and trying to get by. Some of them remain ignorant of the problems that we discuss on here, but most of them are not happy with the government that they feel no longer represents them, or reflects the values they care about.
I apologize for calling you out, most of the time I just ignore the illogical, emotionally driven drivel I see spewed down here, but it was quite out of character for you. You normally strike me as a level headed guy.
Three things drive foreign people's perception of America:
US foreign policy; US TV shows; US tourists, none of which leave a favorable impression.
(note to US tourists visiting Canada, the left lane is for passing)
The only part of Canada I've visited was British Columbia, and while it was breathtaking in parts with friendly people, I noticed something else. The majority of people were expats, and those I met who claimed to be native seemed little different from the American middle class found on other parts of the North American west coast. Perhaps it is different in other provinces, but I honestly did not feel as if I had entered another country at all, especially compared to the rest of the north west.
Never apologize man, you are 100% correct and as for my country? There’s a battle between the socialists 32% and the liberal groups 50%.
The largest group knows that sacrifices need to be made for the future generation and the socialists... they want "the rich" to pick up all the bills.
And for a socialist, you’re rich if you have a job that pays more than minimum so that’s why the liberal groups are getting pretty strong here.
And those who strike? Mostly government employees and people who just join because the unions reward them.
Well I apologize none the less, it was rude to personally attack you over it. I would never defend the aspects of American "culture" that you are criticizing, but sometimes it becomes frustrating to be guility by association, even if it's only on a geographical level.
The culture you see in American media is largely a consumer product created by the same assholes who have hijacked our country and caused all these problems in the world to begin with. Many Americans buy into it, especially the ones on the government dole, but a significant number don't and are just as disgusted by it as you are.
" The largest group knows that sacrifices need to be made for the future generation and the socialists... they want "the rich" to pick up all the bills."
This pretty much seems to describe the problem everywhere doesn't it?
Had to laugh when I read "guilt by association"...
I was raised in Tennessee, met my husband in 1985 (who was visiting the US from Australia), moved to Sydney in 1986 and lived there until 2010.
If I only had a dollar for every time I was asked about The Beverly Hillbillies, or the KKK, etc...
Loved every minute I lived there... Miss it every day.
Yes, it is 100% true that foreigners (well, I can only speak for Aussies) think the US is what is portrayed on the tv sitcoms.
dear sudden debt, is this an attempt to appease the nsa? sorry bud - but for guys like you and me, it's a bit too late.
To say that Europe is a desirable society "because it's better than America" is really grasping at straws.
"kicking the can" should replace "kicking the bucket" in edit.
Also, my name might not be Paris, but who gives a shit about Greece?
well barnaby might ...
You're right, how do you separate the young Greeks from the old?
With a crowbar!
i can see where are are coming from and now you might be flying high ... but remember it is never late to accept and believe in God and be among its choosen people.
Thank you for your appeal, but Norton trumps God here and places your posts among the waste pile.
thats okay, you are welcome.
but remember it is never late to accept and believe in God and be among its choosen people.
Arius. Writing out of you arse again? It does not work that way.
While many are CALLED there are FEW CHOSEN.
You cannot choose God.
God chooses you...which in your case, HE has not.
It is EVIDENTIAL as you called the Heavenly Father an IT.
Unfortunately I am NOT CHOSEN as is demostrable by the Empirical Evidence.
But just because I am cast out does not mean that God does not exist. It just means that I am not chosen.
@ Tall Tom " a broken and contrite heart , O God, You will not despise"
Just sayin'